Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[klaasend]

Well, I feel like I've been up and down a hill too fast. My stomach's back there someplace!

I'm giving it up as well for the night.

Maybe I didn't miss so much. On the other hand, I may have missed Natalee being found.

No worries. Klaas will let me know! 

Night sweet monkeys! You too, you rotten ones~! (jk)

God Bless!

Nite CBB

[SS]

 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.

 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  

To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

[2NJSons_Mom]

klaasend, I might have missed it, but I didn't see an answer to your Endemol question.  It is a worldwide production company, Big Brother, Deal or No Deal, Changing Rooms and Fear Factor are a very few of their shows.  And of course it's a Dutch company.  Here's the Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemol

Ah, thanks for the info

Didn't this come up before?  For some reason, Fear Factor made me recall something.

[klaasend]

SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

[Keepthefaith]

 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.

 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  

To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Kinda O/T SS.So.If we all believe Natalee or part of her was found in that cage.What could potentially be done in regards to seeking justice in a Foreign country that is corrupt???If we have no jurisdiction??Who's gonna do something??

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[Helen Back]

  Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.

 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said. 

I never saw anything like that posted here either.  I try to read everyone's posts, but could have missed it.
My head spins with all the confusing information posted here recently.   

If the FBI is involved, I'm happy.  If I've read something here that was part of a private email of Beth's, I was unaware of that, as I don't believe that was stated.

For those of us who don't know any of Natalee's family members, and have no "inside track", this can be an especially confusing place. 

I can tell you that, having been raised by a "G-man", I don't understand the concept of talking about confidential things.  Loose lips sink ships and all that.  I know we are all desperate for news and progress for Natalee and her family, but not at the expense of any investigation, safety of those who are trying to help, or feelings of those who have already been hurt so profoundly.

I am happy to follow my natural instinct to err on the side of caution, and remain suspended in temporary cluelessness.

Besides, there are some creeepy trolls poppin in and out of here sometimes, and I don't like to give them snacks.

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

I agree with both of you.  I've had my share of questions and still can't make heads or tails out of the current discussion.  I, too, want to believe that justice for Natalee & her family was/is the focus of the Persistence and Caps. 

G'nite.

PS...I also read the post Hotshot referenced about Kyle's baby, but not the poster.....

[Anna]

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-0-



© Thomson Reuters 2008 All rights reserved

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS141930+01-Apr-2008+MW20080401

[Lifesong]

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.

How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.

Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.

Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.

I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.

[texasmom]

Just a few comments from my reading of the last several pages:

One important name left out of the summary of all of this is Louis Schaefer.  From what I've read, he's the one that was selling off stocks, etc.; not John Silvetti.  He's also the one that is named in several lawsuits from my reading.

I don't recall any pictures posted that would identify any of the divers that participated in the Jan 7th dive on the cage.  From my understanding of what Kermit has said, the divers never boarded Persistence that day.  They dove from the ALE boat collected the evidence and returned to the ALE boat and left the site.  The only pictures that I'm aware of that have been posted from the Jan 7th dive are of the cage and the bagged evidence, with no divers in sight.  The pictures were captured by the ROV that was filming without their knowledge.

I don't believe that Kermit or Kyle has named any of the Aruban divers, if they did; would someone please post a link where I can reread that information.

The pictures of who we believe to be Eduardo Mansur were taken on the Persistence prior to the Jan 7th dive.  Even though he may be a diver, and may have assisted others in preparing for the dive;  I've not seen any evidence that he actually participated in any dive on the cage.

KERMIT....please let me know if I'm wrong about this.

I haven't participated much tonight because we had a severe thunderstorm, my hi speed is down...so I'm on dial up with my son's laptop...unfamiliar to say the least.  And I feel like I've aged ten years waiting for pages to load, lol...

Hopefully I will be back in my comfort zone tomorrow and can add more to the discussion.

[Magnolia]

I don't believe that Beth objected to Kermit posting a one word
email with no address on it.
I don't believe that Natalee was cut into pieces.  Joran
nor any of the pimps have the balls to do that.

[Anna]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.

[Keepthefaith]

I am guessing that the lawyer must be on the prosecution side
or he wouldn't be on the call roll.

Kermit has been saying for a long time that we should
stay focused and not be diverted by the witness.

Why would anyone want to divert attention away from
the trap and the "human remains" found there?
One of those diverting is Caps, one is John Silvetti and one
is Clyde Burke, of ALE.

How can you even say CAPS is a diverter?  He has worked so hard on this case...... Kermit is making you focus on her, and its all silly, and can not be proved in any way......Its really sad that you all are fixed on that one thing that can not even be shown as any kind of proof.  Yes by the way CAPS can not keep a connection with the internet.  YES they are onto him, and yes, he is still able to help where he can.  You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS.  There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help.  I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did.  And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.

Hotshot,
I have always looked forward to your posts from the beginning, and those of CAPS and Kyle. But, the recent posts by Kermit and the interchanges btwn Kermit/CAPS/Kyle seem to weigh in favor of Kermit.
If you could be more clear on this post as to the meaning of this:
And by the way Kermit, do NOT post anymore of Beths letters.........She will not be a happy camper.  She already knows whats going on with that.
I think the innuendos (intentional or not) are really confusing.....Help me understand please.

Bill, I too talk with Beth, and she does not want to be posted here as to what is said in private.  Kermit asked Beth in a private letter is she wanted her to expose the corruption.......Beth thinking the corruption of Aruba......Kermit went and posted Beths reply that said sure or something to that effect....then Kermit comes out with all this outrageous stuff.  Beth wants in no way to have her personal emails on any sites....And thats as far as I am going with this.  You may have your opinions and side with Kermit, but think about this, really think about this...You really think these people went out to Aruba to scan for oil crap when they didnt even come close to Venezuela?  They left there for a reason, and if the pictures dont tell you why, I dont know what will....Persistance has what they need, and so do the FBI.  just because they are not talking doesnt mean they are not working.

I'm a few pages behind, so forgive me if this has already been asked.

I think when the ocean search finally started I actually thought and/or assumed that the purpose was to find Natalie and bring her home.  Period.  After being so jerked around by ALE, AHATA, etc. - they having no respect for the rule of law, the very last thing I expected was that if something was found it would be reported to ALE prior to recovery.

I just naturally assumed 'we' would play the game the way they'd been playing it if thats what it took.  I expected TES, Silvetti, et al - upon finding that trap to recover the evidence themselves surreptiously - whether that complied Aruban law or not.  Get it the evidence, bring it home to Beth and Dave, have it analyzed at a private facility - then, once the truth is finally known - turn it over to the FBI and apologize, "oops, we got confused, we just didn't understand their laws." 

They don't respect their rule of law, but we're supposed to?  At the price of truth and justice?

Did anyone else have the same expectation? 

I just can't believe that Dave and Beth, or esp. Tim Miller, actually agreed to turn over any evidence found to ALE.  Legal or illegal.

On this topic Lifesong.Go to Kermit's profile and read all the posts,as well as Oceanexploration.You will form your own opinion..

[Hotshot]

SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

I agree with both of you.  I've had my share of questions and still can't make heads or tails out of the current discussion.  I, too, want to believe that justice for Natalee & her family was/is the focus of the Persistence and Caps. 

G'nite.

PS...I also read the post Hotshot referenced about Kyle's baby, but not the poster.....

check it once, check it twice,....then post it.    http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556327;topicseen#msg556327

[SS]

 Can you believe they were even mentioning that maybe he didnt even have a baby, and maybe he didnt even name her natalee?  WOW, thats hateful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember seeing anything like that posted here but I might have missed it.

 

It was Klaas.  I wouldn't be so upset about it if it didnt happen.  Kyle is obviously not going to stick up for himself, someone has to.  If I knew how to search here, I'd find you that quote, but I think you are better at it then I, so I will let you do that.  Trust me, it was said.  

To be honest i believe i read the same thing.It would more then likely have came after the exchange over the cage pictures Klass if that helps your search at all..for what it's worth..

Kyle did name his baby Natalee.  I think it was around April or May.

Kinda O/T SS.So.If we all believe Natalee or part of her was found in that cage.What could potentially be done in regards to seeking justice in a Foreign country that is corrupt???If we have no jurisdiction??Who's gonna do something??

KTF - I am not an International Attorney, but from what I understand there isn't a whole lot that we can do.  Our FBI has no jurisdiction outside of our borders unless they are invited to assist and be part of an investigation.  Sen. Biden and his Committee on Foreign Relations didn't appear to do anything at all and he never even answered the many emails that I sent to him.  I have no idea what, if anything, the State Dept. has done.  There is a World Court at the Hague, and I have no idea of their procedures.  Fortunately most countries in the civilized world don't behave the way that Aruba does.  I have only seen one other and I actually lived there for a while so I can speak from personal experience - Iran.

[Keepthefaith]

Question Hotshot!When,and by whom were the pictures of the cage turned over to the proper authorities?Is Kermit telling the TRUTH or NOT??Can you dispell the myths that Kermit is telling us?

Don't know if you caught these questions Hotshot.

[Anna]

SS wrote:

these are big issues and as a group, we are here to ask questions until we get answers

Precisely why I don't interfere with the direction the discussions have been going.  Who am I to say what is the truth?  I want to believe that the Persistence and Caps are all on Natalee's side.  All any of us wants is justice for Natalee and her family. 

Same here.  I don't believe or disbelieve anybody and hope all are working for the same common goal.  It seems all those "in the know" have posted incorrect information at one time or another so I really don't know what to think but for sure don't know if any remains of Natalee were ever in that cage, etc.

I think this has all become far more complicated than the actual facts but will just continue to read and consider.

Not endorsing any version of the "truth" that I have seen presented so far but will continue to consider any and all.

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:DEEP


When they left to look for Natalee the stock was trading at around $13.00 and soon was down to $0.16 and I think that is what caused the lawsuit.

Now what this has to do with anything related to Natalee, I can't make a connection.

I've read and posted this info and still can't make a connection that I believe.  I just have more questions, Anna.

I already said G'nite, but I'm still here...same o same o

[billb's daughter]

I don't believe that Beth objected to Kermit posting a one word
email with no address on it.
I don't believe that Natalee was cut into pieces.  Joran
nor any of the pimps have the balls to do that.

Magnolia,
I disagree about Joran and having the balls (OK-little balls after seeing the pics previously posted).
He was not just a troubled teenager (17) that we are accustomed too here in the US. He ran the household, tried to maintain a bada$$ image with his moron pimps/associates. I do think he spent and still spends most of his time high and on the night in question, he was capable of horrendous actions including cutting up Natalee. He is a monster! MHO.