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Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08
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Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08 (Read 279688 times)
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SS
Monkey Junky
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #100 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:38:44 PM »
Quote from: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:22:31 PM
Well, SS, this is confusing, isn't it? Joran's one bloody sneaker was in his room. However, the second sneaker can't be both in the cage and in the pond. I do see the picture of a similar sneaker in the cage, but I have not seen a picture of the sneaker that was supposed to be recovered from the pond. So, if I have to choose, I believe what I see in the picture of the cage. If other evidence is provided, then I might change my mind, but this is what I see now.
AZ - the witness saw Urine with one sneaker after he had just reportedly lost one in the pond. If a bloody sneaker was found, as Beth was told, that would be the sneaker that he was wearing when the witness saw him. My thought is that the bloody sneaker was later taken by the Edlers and added to other evidence like the denim skirt that was put in the cage. The cage photographs were taken on December 29th and the sneaker is there in the picture. Manserat Pond wasn't drained until March. Caps claims a sneaker was found. ALE has the pond evidence, I believe. We need Caps to clarify that. If we had the sneaker from the cage and the sneaker from Manserat, we could nail ALE with the cover up. If we could prove that the sneaker in the cage did belong to Urine, we could prove a cover up involving the cage. This is why I have been asking about a right show or left shoe in the cage and whether the witness specified a missing right shoe or left shoe.
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AZLady
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #101 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:39:20 PM »
Janet, I agree. The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them. This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit. However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Hotshot
Monkey Junky
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #102 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:39:44 PM »
Quote from: Dayhiker on December 05, 2008, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 11:58:31 AM
The war between Van der Stratten and Croes was probably a while in the making. Maybe Croes decided that the only way to close this case was to offer a scapegoat. But, this particular accusation against Van der Stratten also covers the Minister of Justice with the same mud because he is/was the ultimate party responsible for the actions of the police. That is what puzzle me here. I'm beginning to think that Croes knows he's going down, and he's going to take the rest of them with him.
Next up bring Karin Jannsen into the corruption loop. She knew the evidence, she had to agree on delaying the arrest of J2K, she would have had to sign off on the security guards' arrest. It's now time to bring her fat ass into the spotlight.
It would really be nice to see Vo(king) , Smit, and Wit, start talking. This whole thing can really get interesting fast.... Hmmm, Dompig would be a good one to bring in also.
Logged
Joran van der Sloot:
One day, I will explain exactly what happened, but, right now, I don’t feel ready to do that.
Tamikosmom
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #103 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:39:54 PM »
Quote from: Dayhiker on December 05, 2008, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Frank on December 05, 2008, 11:26:43 AM
Buckshot,
Good advice. While I think the cage story is important, it's more important to go back to the beginning.
In fact, I think more focus should be on the van der sloot house.
Jan van der straaten "saw" the evidence, meaning, I believe, that he saw Natalee.
Karin Janssen and Jan van der straaten gave Paulus 10 days. This alone is so incredibly sickening.
IMO Frank they've got enough to arrest Van der Straten RIGHT NOW for obstruction of justice. There are two eye witness accounts of Jan saying he couldn't arrest his best friend's son. They need to haul Straten in and let him start spilling the beans and then the house of cards will start to crumble.
Dayhiker
If Beth and Jug had it all figured out within 72 hours ... Jan Van der Straaten most certainly did.
Janet
______
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005
TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.
And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.
<snipped>
TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point?
You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Magnolia
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #104 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:41:20 PM »
In the middle diving picture above, the diver is using a camera
it seems.
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The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
Tamikosmom
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #105 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:41:30 PM »
Quote from: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:39:20 PM
Janet, I agree. The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them. This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit.
However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.
AZLady ... I agree 100%.
Janet
Logged
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____
“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
MumInOhio
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #106 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:45:24 PM »
OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM
Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?
Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge.
I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba. I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability". This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.
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AZLady
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #107 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:46:14 PM »
Quote from: Magnolia on December 05, 2008, 12:41:20 PM
In the middle diving picture above, the diver is using a camera
it seems.
I can't really tell from the pic, but I would logically believe the divers had at least one camera with them. After all, this was the initial dive in which they were to closer investigate the cage and contents. This had to be documented, thus a camera had to be used. Probably a high res underwater camera that could take quite detailed pics under those conditions.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
SS
Monkey Junky
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #108 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:47:24 PM »
I just noticed something....
The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th. The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.
Something isn't adding up.
Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th. Who is next to that cage on December 30th? If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence? The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage. This is not what we were told.
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Frank
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #109 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:48:02 PM »
I really disagree, I don't think van der straaten would agree to be a lamb anywhere. They've already admitted what they've done, many times.
Nobody wants to touch this case, and until somebody with passion or power, just one person, decides to honestly put an end to this, they can tell all the stories they want and it won't matter.
Aruba is to Holland what Joran is to Paulus, and you can see how well the "protection" is going.
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Dayhiker
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #110 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:49:24 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on December 05, 2008, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: Dayhiker on December 05, 2008, 12:00:43 PM
ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen.
They need to bring the whole damned house down
, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.
Dayhiker
It is not going to happen!!
I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate. In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb. He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.
Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where involved in the events that led up to the happenings of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.
To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.
Janet
You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.
Keep the faith!
Logged
* * * * * * * * * *
"ARUBA...THE CREAM OF THE CRAP IN THE CARIBBEAN."
MumInOhio
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #111 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:49:33 PM »
OK...
Thanks Kyle
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
on: March 19, 2008, 03:21:31 PM
After the Jan 7th dive, I was scheduled to take a short break on land, staying at the Holiday Inn between Jan 9th and returning to the Persistence on Jan 14th. I had been working steadily since Dec 15th and needed a break. It was a coincidence I was around to be walking the beach to observe what I saw with the vessel at or near the site on the 11th and 12th of Jan. I don't know for certain if there is anything to it. When asked if they were diving the site, they replied: "we don't have dive capabilities".
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM
The Coast Guard is not the same as the Aruba police dive division. It seemed very odd to be told they don't have dive capabilities, especially after they told us it would take about 10-14 days to get a Dutch forensic team on site. This was 12 and 13 days later. Coincidence perhaps?
Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare. We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.
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AZLady
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #112 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:50:24 PM »
Quote from: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 12:45:24 PM
OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM
Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?
Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge.
I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba. I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability". This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.
I would hope it raised a few questions. I, as a lowly internet *******, question the meaning of the phrase "dive capability" as regards any boat in Aruba (an island where diving is a popular pastime). As an oceanographer, I'm sure OE was more than skeptical when told the Dutch Coast Guard didn't have "dive capabilities." That's just more than ludicrous--it's like talking in another language.
Logged
BRING NATALEE HOME
wreck
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #113 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:50:36 PM »
I don't know,--- there just seems to be so much "hopping" right now. Something is is not quite right.
-- Joran is spouting off -- implicating himself (but short of murder)
-- The whole Persistence "veracity" issues.
-- Revelations about Tim Miller (and Dave) being lured off
during
the sea cage episode
-- The corresponding appearance of "caps" on the scene
-- Revelations of new "witnesses"
-- Rudy Croes blaming Van Der Stratten
-- Kelley back on Greta with requests for arrests
--
Kermit's revelations backed with pictures and e-mails
(yet being castigated)
I just have a gut feeling Aruba is
STILL
trying to manipulate the outcome.
Logged
blah
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #114 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:51:00 PM »
Quote from: MumInOhio on December 05, 2008, 12:45:24 PM
OK...Dive capabilities...Saved it without the link...I think he was saying the Arubans didn't have the dive capabilities.
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
Quote from: ala_gunslinger on March 18, 2008, 12:27:48 PM
Do you remember the name of the coast guard vessel?
Quote Kyle..
No I don't know it, but there's only one that patrold the waters to my knowledge.
I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site during the dates in question when I returned to Aruba. I showed why I was curious and it was solid enough to provoke a response from Adolpho Richardson or Hans Mos (I can't remember and am not sure because I got the response 2nd hand). The response was remarkable and simply: "we do not have dive capability". This odd response raised a few questions in my mind.
This idiot would probably also like us to believe that a police force that exists on an island nation does not have swimming capabilities or boat driving capabilities
Logged
wreck
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #115 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:52:04 PM »
Quote from: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:47:24 PM
I just noticed something....
The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th. The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.
Something isn't adding up.
Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th. Who is next to that cage on December 30th? If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence? The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage. This is not what we were told.
GREAT CATCH!!!
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blah
Monkey Junky
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #116 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:52:39 PM »
Aruba is a nation of liars. There does not exist one person on that shit hole that is capable of speaking the truth about anything.
Logged
Magnolia
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #117 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:52:49 PM »
Quote from: SS on December 05, 2008, 12:47:24 PM
I just noticed something....
The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th. The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.
Something isn't adding up.
Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th. Who is next to that cage on December 30th? If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence? The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage. This is not what we were told.
I noticed the date too, SS.
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The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
Anna
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #118 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:54:17 PM »
Quote from: Tamikosmom on December 05, 2008, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: AZLady on December 05, 2008, 12:39:20 PM
Janet, I agree. The choice is to sacrifice van der Stratten and PVDS or to flush the island down the toilet, basically giving up any of their independence and clearing out the whole lot of them. This won't happen, so van der Stratten is taking the hit.
However, my guess is that we should watch in future for a fattening of Uncle Jan's bank account.
AZLady ... I agree 100%.
Janet
Uncle Jan was pretty well ready to retire in July after Natalee disappeared but you will recall that all this changed with her disappearance and he stayed on in spite of Rudy Croes replacing him with Dompig.
How did he do this? See my post yesterday of the letter from Eric Zaandam president of the police union stating flatly that the police union will NEVER co-operate in ANY investigation of its own. That is why I posted that and why I think it very vital to any discussion of vd Straten. That is how he was right back in even after Rudy replaced him with Dompig who immediately said a confession had been made, etc.
He also stated among other things that no one was going to come in and investigate him even after he left office. How could he be so sure of this? So with his impeding retirement anyway, perhaps he is thinking to supplement it in this manner by agreeing to take the fall. Doubtful anything would actually be done to him anyway as I have readof rape case getting community service in The Netherlands, I kid you not.
Logged
PERSONA NON GRATA
All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts. I am doing the best I can with the information available.
Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary
http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Dayhiker
Monkey Junky
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
«
Reply #119 on:
December 05, 2008, 12:54:29 PM »
Quote from: Frank on December 05, 2008, 12:48:02 PM
I really disagree, I don't think van der straaten would agree to be a lamb anywhere. They've already admitted what they've done, many times.
Nobody wants to touch this case, and until somebody with passion or power, just one person, decides to honestly put an end to this, they can tell all the stories they want and it won't matter.
Aruba is to Holland what Joran is to Paulus, and you can see how well the "protection" is going.
I agree Frank. There is no reason Van der Straten would agree to being smeared internationally as the corrupt lead investigator who covered up the Natalee Holloway case and who could end up in prison. Makes no sense. From what we read, Rudy was responding to Straten calling the police in Aruba corrupt. I hope the all keep talking, tell us more!
All Monkeys be proud. What we've been hammering for 3 1/2 years is now coming to light!
Logged
* * * * * * * * * *
"ARUBA...THE CREAM OF THE CRAP IN THE CARIBBEAN."
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=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
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