Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[Altruist]

Does anyone understand what Jossy is trying to say?
*********

MANSUR: Most of us believe that what Joran said on the first program of De Vries is correct, that she died in his arms but not from seizure -- we don't know how she died -- that [he] called a friend and the friend dumped her in the ocean. That's what most people believe.  No Jossy, that's not what most people think.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any suggestion that there was a boat there that night or any ability to dump her into the ocean?

MANSUR: Well, probably because there were some boats nearby, and especially the boat (INAUDIBLE) the tour (ph) ship, which is a tourist ship. There must have been other boats in the vicinity, as Joran would not have invented this with De Vries.  Jossy, are you serious???

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of boats, just so that we have some sort of idea of the geography, for people who need to be reminded, how far, for instance, is Aruba from Venezuela?

MANSUR: Fifteen nautical miles is the nearest point within Aruba and Venezuela.

VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.  Yup, the bird was on the wire because a drug deal was going down.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

Jossey Mansur is not like any newspaper Editor that I have ever met & known, he speaks in circles, mumbles the inaudible when it is convenient, makes promises that he does not keep, "somebody" how about delivering up some credibility with some documentation as to the identity of the "somebody".  He's has displayed himself to be a rumor mongerer & the USA MSM still brings him to the table, I JUST DON'T GET IT.  Yet another self promoter, let's face it a real journalistic Editor has reporter's that produce credible news worthy stories, the Editor is the support to his journalists.  There has been something wrong with this picture for quite some time, imo.

[Keepthefaith]

Think I found it.  First visual, on trap December 24.  Mos and crew on board on Christmas.  Joint dive  performed December 30.  Did anyone dive between the 24th and 30th?  Would we know?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/

Secret Dive??One would think in terms of time and resources that they would not have waited for six days to learn the contents of that trap!JMO.Who chose when to dive or not to dive??OE??

[Poochy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIfA90i6YBo

Sorry if this was already posted.

Don't forget to watch Greta on Monday!

[Keepthefaith]

It looks like there are two new witnesses in addition to Celes and the witness near the pond.
******************

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/18/grace.coldcase.holloway/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail
By Rupa Mikkilineni
Nancy Grace Producer
CNN
     
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Authorities in Aruba say they're looking into new evidence that could lead to an arrest 3½ years after Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared on a senior class trip to the island.

 
Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared while on vacation in Aruba with classmates in 2005.

 1 of 2  Aruban police are investigating two new tips they hope will provide the corroborating evidence they need to make an arrest, lead prosecutor Hans Mos told CNN.

He would not discuss details but said police again consider Dutch student Joran van der Sloot to be the prime suspect in Holloway's disappearance.

A new witness has emerged, authorities say, who can place van der Sloot and his father, Paulus van der Sloot, near a pond on the island at 4 a.m. on the day Holloway vanished.

The witness told authorities he saw a young man, wet from the chest down and wearing only one shoe, running along a road from the pond to a fast-food restaurant.

The witness said he saw the young man and an older man driving slowly down the road in a red Jeep about 10 minutes later. The pond was not among those searched in the early stages of the investigation, Mos said.

A second witness, a former girlfriend of Joran van der Sloot, also told police he made suspicious-sounding comments while they were on the beach. The witness, publicly known only as Celes, told police van der Sloot said: "Who knows? You may now be on the beach with someone who is able to get rid of a corpse."  Watch the latest developments in the case »

In addition, Mos said, two other witnesses have come forward. He declined to discuss those witnesses, other than to say he is hopeful the case can be solved.

"We are hoping to make a decision by the end of this year or early next year as to whether we will re-arrest [the younger] van der Sloot or not," Mos told CNN.

Also key to the investigation, Mos added, is a Dutch journalist Peter De Vries' videotaped interview with van der Sloot. In the interview, van der Sloot acknowledges a friend helped him get rid of her body. Read how van der Sloot "lost no sleep" over Holloway

Mos said he is confident that the tape, which he characterizes as a confession, is admissible in court. With the new tips and new witnesses whose testimony impeaches earlier statements by van der Sloot and his father, Mos said he might have enough evidence to solve the mystery of what happened to Holloway.

The elder van der Sloot has told police he was at home, asleep in bed until 7 a.m. on the night in question. And, Joran van der Sloot has never been able to explain what happened to his tennis shoes, Mos said.

Holloway's father, Dave, said the new developments caught him by surprise.

"Well, I really hope it's true, because they even have Joran on tape confessing, and I don't know what could be better than that," he said.

Van der Sloot's family and attorney did not return phone calls.

Natalee Holloway, 19, a senior at Mountain Brook High School in suburban Birmingham, Alabama, was a vibrant member of the school band's dance team, "The Dorians," which is similar to the "Rockettes." She was a straight-A student who planned to study pre-medicine at the University of Alabama.

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She vanished in May 2005 while on her senior class trip to the island. She was last seen at the popular night club Carlos 'n Charlie's early on the morning her class was due to fly home.

Her disappearance became the subject of a high-profile search and a massive media frenzy. Holloway family members and friends organized volunteer search efforts in Aruba that went on for months.

Early missteps cost investigators valuable time and evidence. Police at first mistakenly arrested two men who had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance. And, investigators initially ignored information from witnesses pointing to the three young men last seen with Holloway that night.

When Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were arrested, they told conflicting stories. By that time, verifiable facts were hard to come by.

Van der Sloot is a member of a prominent Dutch family in Aruba. At the time of Holloway's disappearance, his father was a judge in training. Joran van der Sloot and the brothers Kalpoe were arrested and let go twice in connection with Holloway's disappearance.

While they were in jail, police and prosecutors sought corroborating evidence to piece together a motive and theory. They were not successful. Late last year, authorities closed the case without bringing any charges.

"We simply did not yet have the corroborating evidence to take this to trial and win a conviction," prosecutor Mos told CNN. "If we had a body even to determine cause of death, then we could piece some thing together."

In February, the videotape of van der Sloot's taped admission surfaced on Dutch television. De Vries, a famed Dutch journalist, set up a hidden camera capturing van der Sloot talking about Holloway's last moments and how her body was disposed of "like an old rag."

Since then, De Vries has set up another on-camera sting. It aired last week, showing van der Sloot meeting with undercover reporters who posed as Dutch sex industry bosses looking for Thai prostitutes to recruit to the Netherlands as sex slaves.

In the tape, van der Sloot allegedly promises to supply Thai girls for prostitution in Holland and accepts 1,000 Euros as advance payment for his services.


Apparently van der Sloot left the Netherlands late last year and has been living in Thailand for the last few months as a student.

His whereabouts right now are unknown, but Aruban authorities are grateful for the tips that the Dutch documentaries have generated. They hope the tips will bring them closer to a resolution in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

I posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wron??

[johan555]

oeps
I found this on an Aruban forum
 22 June 2005

Trust me they are involved and guilty!

they dumped her in the  mondi .. and following day in pieces of the rocks

i googled it and the mondi is a  cemetery

Cemetery of Sabana Basora in Aruba



what told caps us ?

Cemetery of Sabana Basora is not far from Lorenzo's house !

Cemetery of Sabana Basora And Lorenzo's house !

[SS]

Does anyone understand what Jossy is trying to say?
*********

MANSUR: Most of us believe that what Joran said on the first program of De Vries is correct, that she died in his arms but not from seizure -- we don't know how she died -- that [he] called a friend and the friend dumped her in the ocean. That's what most people believe.  No Jossy, that's not what most people think.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there any suggestion that there was a boat there that night or any ability to dump her into the ocean?

MANSUR: Well, probably because there were some boats nearby, and especially the boat (INAUDIBLE) the tour (ph) ship, which is a tourist ship. There must have been other boats in the vicinity, as Joran would not have invented this with De Vries.  Jossy, are you serious???

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of boats, just so that we have some sort of idea of the geography, for people who need to be reminded, how far, for instance, is Aruba from Venezuela?

MANSUR: Fifteen nautical miles is the nearest point within Aruba and Venezuela.

VAN SUSTEREN: And do you know -- and in terms of boats that night, do you know if any thorough investigation, one that you would have confidence in? Has that been done?

MANSUR: No, it hasn't been done because that night, somebody in the police force told the people handling the radar that controls the boats in the vicinity on the coast of Aruba -- told them to put it off.  Yup, the bird was on the wire because a drug deal was going down.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, thank you.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

Jossey Mansur is not like any newspaper Editor that I have ever met & known, he speaks in circles, mumbles the inaudible when it is convenient, makes promises that he does not keep, "somebody" how about delivering up some credibility with some documentation as to the identity of the "somebody".  He's has displayed himself to be a rumor mongerer & the USA MSM still brings him to the table, I JUST DON'T GET IT.  Yet another self promoter, let's face it a real journalistic Editor has reporter's that produce credible news worthy stories, the Editor is the support to his journalists.  There has been something wrong with this picture for quite some time, imo.

Jossy does seem to be talking in circles.  Last September, he published two articles in Diario about the pond witness who saw Urine and Paulass.  His own Diario articles stated that Urine and Paulass were near the Manserat Pond.  There was a big meeting with Mansur, Caps, DeVries, and the witness in early September.  Caps indicated to us that Jossy would be publishing parts 3, 4, and 5 of the new witness information.  We've never seen these last three parts.  Peter had promised to expose Paulass.  Well, an ex-girlfriend telling Peter that Paulass was pulling the stings is not exposing Paulass, as far as I am concerned.  That is not new information.  Now Jossy is on with Greta telling her that most people believe Natalee died in Urine's arms and he got rid of her in a boat, with a friend.

It does sound like Jossy is talking in circles.    

[Helen Back]

Evening monkeys,

Thanks, Johan.  This is veeeeeery interesting! 

[SS]

 posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wron??

*********************

I'm sorry because I must have missed your post in the craziness.  Yes, it does sound like there are four witnesses now - the pond witness, Celeste, and 2 more according to Mos, himself.  And he's now saying that it's hopeful the case can be solved.

Why did he refuse to see Greta if he's hopeful that the case can be solved?

Mos and Jossy are talking in circles right now.

[johan555]

Relatives, friends and acquaintances of Percy Irausquin yesterday afternoon in the cemetery of Sabana Basora in Aruba.

Funeral fairytale Percy in Aruba
Fashion Designer Percy Irausquin buried in his native Aruba Island

[SS]

Johan - does anyone know if Caps has information about this new cemetery?  Great pictures, Johan.

[Helen Back]

Why is Mos NOW CONFIDENT that the PRDV tape is admissable as evidence, and considers it a confession from Joran.  When PRDV broke the story, MOS said it wasn't helpful because it couldn't be used.

 

What has changed?

[Keepthefaith]

posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wron??

*********************

I'm sorry because I must have missed your post in the craziness.  Yes, it does sound like there are four witnesses now - the pond witness, Celeste, and 2 more according to Mos, himself.  And he's now saying that it's hopeful the case can be solved.

Why did he refuse to see Greta if he's hopeful that the case can be solved?

Mos and Jossy are talking in circles right now.

On a lighter note for a moment.My Huskies now have the honor of being the worst team in the country.Hopefully Greta will peel back a few more layers of the onion so to speak on Monday.Does any other Monkey have ideas of the potential of whom Mos is speaking about in terms of the other Two witnesses,as well as why he believes it will be solved??Hot air from Mos,and or smoke screen??

[mariloo]

Hello everyone.  I just read one of my posts and I need to explain something.  I do not believe Kyle is involved in a cover up.  When I said, I think he was sent ashore, I meant that while he was gone ashore, I think at this time evidence could have been tampered with and may well have been tampered with.  I did not mean to insinuate Kyle was involved.  I get to thinking and writing and it comes out scwewy.  Sorry bout that.

[mariloo]

Why is Mos NOW CONFIDENT that the PRDV tape is admissable as evidence, and considers it a confession from Joran.  When PRDV broke the story, MOS said it wasn't helpful because it couldn't be used.

 

What has changed?

Boy!! Did his story ever change????  What happened????

[johan555]

Johan - does anyone know if Caps has information about this new cemetery?  Great pictures, Johan.

I try to find some info about this cemetery !

[Hotshot]

I posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wrong??

Keepthefaith you are not wrong.  Can't go any further then that. Until arrests happen, it can't be talked about.  But you WILL know.

[mariloo]

In my opinion, Jossy has always talked in circles.  I have always had to have someone else explain to me what exactly he just said.   

[Keepthefaith]

I posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wrong??

Keepthefaith you are not wrong.  Can't go any further then that. Until arrests happen, it can't be talked about.  But you WILL know.

Thanx HotShot! ::MonkeyWink::Will return Monkey's after i go to the Gym and work out my frustrations from my 0-11 Washington Huskies..See ya'll in a few..Keepthefaith!

[mariloo]

I posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wrong??

Keepthefaith you are not wrong.  Can't go any further then that. Until arrests happen, it can't be talked about.  But you WILL know.

I do hope you know what you are talking about and there may be more arrests in the very near future.  It has been such a struggle to be patient.  Thanks

[wreck]

I posted that a few days ago SS/No response from anyone.I'm under the impression that they're are 4 witnesses and not just 2.Correct me if i'm wrong??

Keepthefaith you are not wrong.  Can't go any further then that. Until arrests happen, it can't be talked about.  But you WILL know.

Can Greta's info, Tim Miller's 3 new witnesses, Caps' story, AND Kermit's allegations ALL fit together??