Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7 - 2/8/08

[Peaches]

On Fox again.  Police questioning Joran now.  Greta on phone now. 

They have new info. from tape.  They are trying to corroborate his statements.  Going back to look through case for enough info. to detain.    This is good opportunity for them to reinvestigating..   Greta says they WANT to arrest him,but she says they need to do a 'good' investigation.  The way she said it, she meant a good investigation THIS time!

Yep.....that'll take another 3 years and the prick will be free to do harm to more young women. HE WILL DO THIS AGAIN! It is just a matter of time 

I've always said precisely that.  This type of behavior tends to escalate before it de-escalates.  It can only get worse.  Anyone with any sense can tell from the video that the goon knows more than he has told.  And what he has told is but the type of the ugly iceberg.

[littletxlady]

The latest from Natalee's Freebirds:
 
MOORDENAAR -DUTCH translation means MURDERER!


Joran: "Things seem to be going even better than I hoped."

 




JORAN VAN DER SLOOT TELLS HOW NATALEE DIED AND HOW HE DISPOSED OF HER BODY

Peter de Vries program secretly videotaped Joran van der Sloot with
Patrick van der Eem who befriended Joran, and in the secret recordings Joran describes in detail the most horrific crime he committed against Natalee Ann Holloway in Aruba in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005.

Along with Joran's statements we see that he went out on the evening of May 29, 2005 with the intent to hook up with the Mountain Brook girls at a nightclub in Aruba named Carlos n' Charlie's. Even though Joran is underage he illegally enters Carlos n' Charlie's and has arranged for Deepak and Satish Kalpoe to go with him.

“I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.”
Source: Joran van der Sloot June 9, 2005 statement

Then Joran describes leaving Carlos n' Charlie's with Natalee in Deepak's car where Natalee becomes unconscious.

"Driving past the front of the Marriott Hotel Natalee half fell asleep/half dozed off. "
Source: Joran van der Sloot June 9, 2005 statement


THE PREDATOR - JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

JORAN STATED ON HIS WEBPAGE HE ATTENDED ST. LEO UNIVERSITY IN FLORIDA WHEN THE TRUTH IS HE LIVED IN ARUBA AND ATTENDED HIGH SCHOOL

 


JORAN ADVERTISES ON FACEBOOK THAT HE ATTENDS MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY, BUT THE TRUTH IS JORAN LIVED IN ARUBA AND WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL

 



Joran explains to Greta that he has picked up girls in the clubs in Aruba before:
VAN DER SLOOT: "I mean it's happened probably 20, 20 times nothing has ever gone wrong."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html


Holly Brown, a friend who accompanied Holloway to Aruba and was at Carlos ‘N Charlie’s the night she disappeared, said she found Van Der Sloot to be “very different.”

“We noticed he was in the casino all by himself,” she told CNN in Alabama. “He lied about his age, and when we went on the (Carlos ‘N Charlie’s) Web site, we found pictures of him there one week before at the same place, wearing the same clothes.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html


"11. Joran van der Sloot is no stranger to sexual assault on young women"
"12. On at least three occasions prior to May 2005, young Aruban women" alleged that they were the victims of "date rape" perpetrated by Joran and his accomplices."
"13. Using Ecstasy as his "date rape" drug of choice, Joran prowled the island, seeking to prey upon young female tourists, especially blonds."
"20. ON the afternoon of May 29 in particular, Paulus van der Sloot personally delivered and accompanied his underage son Joran to one of Aruba's casinos in order that both of them could, as they had many times in the past, play in a poker tournament. It was at that casino
that Joran first met Natalee."

Source: New York Civil Suit filed by John Q. Kelly

Not only does Joran frequent the casino's, but so does his father and on the night of May 30, 2005, BOTH Joran and his father, Paulus van der Sloot met Natalee

 



BETH HOLLOWAY'S JUNE 1, 2005 STATEMENT WAS CHANGED BY AUTHORITIES

“Beth said that one of the things that had gotten changed about her statements that was so upsetting to her was that she had given detailed descriptions of Paulus Van der Sloot with his name included several times in her statement and when she got it translated, she found out that her description had been changed to read only “the man with the glasses”.

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: "Well, there was a phone call made. And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE’S SOURCES

June 9, 2006
Kimberly Guilfoyle: "What we do know is that Joran and the Kalpoe brothers were the last people seen with Natalee Holloway, which is the reason why they still remain to this day the main suspects in the case. As for Paulus, sources say he is the person next to Natalie in the casino."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198887,00.html

JOHN Q. KELLY

April 4, 2006
COSBY … "John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?"

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: "Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/



JORAN MEETS NATALEE

"32. At C&C, the trio [Joran,Deepak, Satish] met Natalee. After buying and serving Natalee with alcoholic beverages, Joran, Deepak and Satish induced her to leave with them."

Source: New York Civil Law Suit filed by John Q. Kelly and Chadbourne & Parke, February 16, 2006

Greta Van Susteren: "Do you remember any conversation at all you had with him, like even if it was like' about chips, or anything at all?"

Ruth McVey: "Only that he said that he was 19 and played soccer at a school in Holland."

Greta Van Susteren: "So he didn't say that he was in high school?"

Ruth McVey: "No"

http://scrux.com/natalee/mbinterview.htm


"33. At approximately 1:30 a.m, Natalee, in an intoxicated state, left C&C and entered a sliver Nissan sedan owned by Deepak. Deepak drove, with Satish in the front passenger seat and Joran and Natalee in the back seat. The car drove off."

Source: New York Civil Law Suit filed by John Q. Kelly and Chadbourne & Parke, February 16, 2006


NATALEE IS RAPED

DID JORAN RAPE NATALEE? – whom he knowingly and admittedly stated was unconscious and drunk

"I placed my left hand at that moment in time between the inside of her leg. I started stroking her breasts with my right hand. Natalee was wearing a bra. I did not put my hand into her bra. Natalee had normal size breasts. Beyond the Marriot Hotel and into the direction of Tierra del Sol I had fingered Natalee. With my fingers I pushed Natalee's panty to the side and fingered her with two fingers. According to me she was shaved because I did not feel any hair. I first stuck my middle finger inside and then I put my index finger inside. While I was doing this Natalee and I kept kissing. I fingered Natalee for about one to two minutes and then pulled my hand out of her panty and placed my hand on her hip."

source:Joran VDS Suspect Statement 06/09/05

JORAN DESCRIBES NATALEE'S UNDERCLOTHING

"Natalee wore a dark blue panty. According to me they were embroidered panties and according to me these were flowers."

Source: Joran van der Sloot June 9, 2005 statement

"Natalee fell half asleep/dozed off again.
While we were driving in the direction/towards the hotel, she dozed off several times/fell half asleep several times and we didn't kiss anymore."

source:Joran VDS Suspect Statement 06/09/05

Joran told me, “Natalee was totally wasted, and I was drunk. We had sex on the beach'."http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63326


Joran: "Even if they find her dead, with my semen in her"

Source: Peter deVries secret recordings
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html



DID DEEPAK RAPE NATALEE?

Deepak Kalpoe admits they all had sex with her:

11-23 FOX News

"When FOX News commented then asked “So Jamie can I ask you...the clip that we heard where Deepak it could be suggested says that the boys had sex with Natalee. Specifically, that he did and it was very easy to do. Is that authentic? Is that what he told you when you interviewed him?,”

SKEETERS said “Yes, the word was ‘you'd be surprised how simple it was."


You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation. I wanted to direct the focus of the police on myself and Joran because we were afraid that Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story"

source 6/29/05 Deepak Statement

John Charles Croes/Deepak Kalpoe friend - chat traffic/6/19/05/Dennis Jacobs / Luigi Croes
source: Kalpoe vs. McGraw lawsuit
http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm


SINS OF A FATHER - WAS PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT INVOLVED?


* May 29, 2005 - Paulus was sitting next to Natalee in the Casino at the blackjack table talking to her.

*1:40 AM - May 30th, 2005 - stopped in Deepak's car in front of my house, it was about 01.40 am. At that moment in time Deepak, Satish, Natalee and myself were in Deepak's car.

Source: Joran's statement 6/14/05

* "Some of this information we have, we are not going to expose right now. I can tell you that from the information we have, Paul Van der Sloot was directly involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."

Source: Court TV Interview with TJ Ward, David Wright from the National Enquirer and CATHERINE CRIER Sept 26, 2005

* Deepak Kalpoe to Joran: "Your own father, unbelievable"

Source: Secretly recorded Polis tapes June 2005

* MICKEY JOHN: "He said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story."

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,161044,00.html

"No Body No Case"

Paulus did say no body, no case, just after Natalee disappeared, While discussing with the boys.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8389319



 



Superior Court Diario - 02-14-2007

The whole case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gets a different twist now that the information has come out from no less than the Superior Court, and in which mention is made of the declarations of witnesses and a phone tap that show or give an indication that Paul van der Sloot had on two occasions personal contact with Natalee during the night that she disappeared. Mention is made that, according to one or more official reports of the phone tap and also the declaration of Paul van der Sloot himself, that Paul fetched Joran and Natalee at McDonald and took them to the Holiday Inn. Based on this information, the judicial authorities and the police had at that time a justified basis to arrest Paul van der Sloot based on different suspicions. (Translation Credit: Diario)
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/2/14/



ACCORDING TO THE LAW: MURDER/MANSLAUGHTER

Murder is a form of homicide committed with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought has various definitions, all of which relate to the state of mind of the person who commits murder. Those definitions are:

a.intention to cause grevious injury and death resulted;

b.conduct with a "depraved heart" showing lack of care for human life;

Under Dutch law, there ARE charges that apply here of obstruction of justice and obstruction of an investigation. Lying, such as when J. SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH lied about leaving NATALEE at the “Holiday Inn,” WOULD constitute an obstruction of one or the other kind depending on the lie.


Joran: “I knew she wanted to f*** (talks about Natalee)”
Joran: “I then gave her a bacardi 151 (75% alcohol). She asked for a chaser, I see shes so drunk, but I thought: Im gonna f*** her.”
Joran: “So I said to S&D, drop us on the beach, Ill f*** her”
Joran: “Then she started shaking like crazy... The beach was empty, I walked to her, no reaction, she just kept shaking, NO foam around her mouth”
Joran: “I picked Nat up and put her near the mangrove trees at the mariott. “

At this point Joran is aware that Natalee is in distress, but he does nothing to help her. He doesn't call 911, he doesn't yell for help, he doesn't run to the Marriott and call for anyone to help her.

Involuntary manslaughter exists when a person commits an unlawful killing but does not intend to kill and does not act with the conscious disregard for human life.

Joran: “I started thinking, no one know I even left the house. But I knew this guy I "had" something on, so I phoned him.

Joran: she is in the ocean.

Patrick: how did you know she died?

Joran: I just knew

P: did you try CPR?

Joran: I tried everything, I pulled her up

P: how did you know if she was dead? wasn't she in a coma?

J: I didnt know.

P: did you feel her'?

J; no, but it didn't look good...

Joran: I wasn't sure she was dead.


Joran: “I only spent 2 hours with her. I fingerfucked her, she jerked me off, I just wanted to ask her for a blowjob went she started shaking... I didn't lose a nights sleep, I have to look good"


He has her disposed of and doesn't even know whether she is dead or still alive.

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html

JORAN KNEW IF HE LEFT NATALEE ON THE BEACH AND SHE SURVIVED, HIS DNA WOULD BE FOUND AND HE'D BE ARRESTED FOR RAPE

Joran: "Even if they find her dead, with my semen in her"


Murder is a form of homicide committed with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought has various definitions, all of which relate to the state of mind of the person who commits murder.

a.intention to cause grevious injury and death resulted;
b.conduct with a "depraved heart" showing lack of care for human life;




* Joran knew Natalee was drunk

* Joran knew Natalee was unconscious and he "had sex with" her.

* Joran doesn't know if Natalee was dead when he disposed of her.

* Joran showed no concern for eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway's life and had her disposed of in the ocean.

* Joran lied in order to cover up his crime


35. Kept against her will, Natalee was sexually assaulted, was fondled and was touched without her consent by Joran and his accomplices, over and over again, as she drifted in and out of consciousness.

Source: New York Civil Law Suit filed by John Q. Kelly and Chadbourne & Parke, February 16, 2006

"I think I am incredibly lucky that she's never been found because if she had been found I would be in deep shit"

Source: Peter deVries secret recordings:
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html


From the secretly recorded police car conversations between Joran, Deepak and Satish:

Deepak: They’re going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl.



Citizens of the world want justice.

America wants justice.

Extradite Joran van der Sloot to the United States to stand trial.

Gerard Spong, a prominent Dutch attorney, stated earlier today that there is a very real chance that van der Sloot may win the criminal case, but will be unable to win a civil suit brought by the surviving family members. Since there is an extradition treaty between the Netherlands and the United States, possible damages may be "..far more than he will ever be able to repay. The American system for awarding damages can have devastating results."

http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/



When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.


32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.

Natalee Holloway and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

[nimrod]

Does Joran own or even drive a car?  I wonder why not?

[klaasend]

Does Joran own or even drive a car?  I wonder why not?

Many do not own cars in the NL, alot of people ride bikes. 

[Frank]

Snoopy,

She has someone standing next to her, and it's not of this world.

[adoronron]

Does Joran own or even drive a car?  I wonder why not?

When the Kalpoe's were interrogated by the ALE early on in the case they were both asked independently by the investigators if joran can drive. They said yes he can drive. It's always been my opinion that those questions were because the ALE was trying to determine who had the Sloot vehicle out and about the night she vanished.

[AVA]

Has Deepak ever (in all his changing stories) said that Joran dropped them off at their home that morning and then borrowed the car?

[nimrod]

Does Joran own or even drive a car?  I wonder why not?

Many do not own cars in the NL, alot of people ride bikes. 

Makes sense. Thanks.

[Peaches]

Does Joran own or even drive a car?  I wonder why not?

When the Kalpoe's were interrogated by the ALE early on in the case they were both asked independently by the investigators if joran can drive. They said yes he can drive. It's always been my opinion that those questions were because the ALE was trying to determine who had the Sloot vehicle out and about the night she vanished.

I was thinking one had to be 18 to get a license to drive. Not 16 like in the States where society is more car-focused.  Sure;y he knows how to drive but probably does so illegally.

[SunnyinTX]

From GretaWire

R Producer Tim Silfies is in Aruba….timsilfies.jpg

….and he just emailed me this press release from the Public Prosecutor…pay particular attention to the remarks about the media and then POST YOUR THOUGHT about it right here…should the media put some more distance? or continue to report aggressively? What do you think?

press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba ,

Havenstraat 2

Oranjestad, Aruba
To all media
From the Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 8, 2008
Pages 1

J.v.d.S. interrogated at Police Station in Rotterdam

This morning, between 10:00 – 12:30 hours (Netherlands time) the police interrogated J.v.d.S. at a police station in Rotterdam. J.v.d.S. was interrogated by police officers of the Aruban Police Department and the Netherlands National Police Department. His lawyer was present during the interrogation, which lasted about two hours.

During the interrogation J.v.d.S. indicated that during the conversations he had in the car he was under the influence of marihuana. Furthermore, he sticks to his statements made earlier during the investigation. He denies to have anything to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The decision of the Court of Appeal of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba is crucial to the possibility of further interrogations of J.v.d.S.

As already stated on February 5, 2008, the Public Prosecutor’s Office lodged an appeal against the decision of the investigating judge to deny the re-detention of J.v.d.S.. The decision of the Court of Appeal is not expected until after the weekend.

Under the direction of the Public Prosecutor’s Office, the Aruban Police Department is still investigating this case. In the interest of the investigation, the Public Prosecutor’s Office appeals to the press to please refrain from a witch-hunt or private investigations or fishing expeditions (all this in the broadest sense of the word),

The Public Prosecutor’s Office doesn’t fail to notice that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway draws a lot of interest from media and general public. However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards this as not acceptable. In the first place, without any confirmation persons are being labeled as a suspect, and harassed as such. In the second place, journalistic investigations and the subsequent reporting thereof, at a time the investigative team is still busy trying to get an answer to many questions, can seriously harm the criminal investigation. Not only does it cause a lot of unrest, or may generate misinformation, it may also harm the outcome of the investigation itself, e.g. when witnesses questioned by the judge at trial can’t be sure if they witnessed something themselves or they know a fact from the media.

Without questioning the value of freedom of the press, it would be desirable if the press would act a little distantly for aforementioned reasons.

For any further information, you can call:

[Nut44x4]

We all knew Joran would say he lied and made up the story because of pot smoking He was told to say this by his lawyers...to blame being under the influence. Joe T. mentions 'being under the influence of pot" in his audio tape soon after Peter's show aired.

[Observer]

Has Deepak ever (in all his changing stories) said that Joran dropped them off at their home that morning and then borrowed the car?

I have never seen Deepak state he let Joran borrow the car. If I remember correctly,the gardener witness who saw them at the pond area,says Joran was in the front seat at the wheel in the drivers seat when he drove by them.

[cubbeegirl]

On Fox again.  Police questioning Joran now.  Greta on phone now. 

They have new info. from tape.  They are trying to corroborate his statements.  Going back to look through case for enough info. to detain.    This is good opportunity for them to reinvestigating..   Greta says they WANT to arrest him,but she says they need to do a 'good' investigation.  The way she said it, she meant a good investigation THIS time!

Yep.....that'll take another 3 years and the prick will be free to do harm to more young women. HE WILL DO THIS AGAIN! It is just a matter of time 

I've always said precisely that.  This type of behavior tends to escalate before it de-escalates.  It can only get worse.  Anyone with any sense can tell from the video that the goon knows more than he has told.  And what he has told is but the type of the ugly iceberg.

Me too Peaches..... You can tell from that video that he is one sick individual... so cold and calculating...it is only a matter of time before he will be saying again, " why does this shit always happen to me?"

[truthseeker2]

If they truly wanted to investigate this case they would be talking to Jan Van Der Straten about the statements Joran made in the first few days of his detention.  Oh, but, they can't do that now can they?  That would spotlight the coverup initiated by Dirty Hand and the Fallen Elder!

It's time to interrogate Jan Van Der Straten!!!!!!


         

[Katysmom]

From Hans Mos press release:  "However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed"

Several persons, as in Joran, Anita, and Paulus???  Well, boo hoo

[cubbeegirl]

From Hans Mos press release:  "However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed"

Several persons, as in Joran, Anita, and Paulus???  Well, boo hoo

He musta got the word to calm this shit down so it will all blow over ..... NOT!

[Observer]

If they truly wanted to investigate this case they would be talking to Jan Van Der Straten about the statements Joran made in the first few days of his detention.  Oh, but, they can't do that now can they?  That would spotlight the coverup initiated by Dirty Hand and the Fallen Elder!

It's time to interrogate Jan Van Der Straten!!!!!!       

Van der Straten stated to Dutch media on June 12, 2005 that he believed Natalee was no longer alive and when asked by the reporter why he would make such a comment he responded, "Because I know the evidence and you don't. Interestingly, two years later the lead investigator has never explained what that evidence is.He also made comment months after we were told he was retiring and moved to the neighboring island of Bonaire as he took the same title as Police Commissioner. He stated that the case should have been solved early on but that there were "people who didn't want to cooperate.

posted on 06/12/2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE 24: Tuesday night during the broadcast of the most popular entertainment news program in The Netherlands, RTL-Boulevard, crime reporter John van den Heuvel announced that he talked to police commissioner Jan van der Straten, who is heading the investigation. The commissioner told van den Heuvel that they expect the case of Natalee Holloway to be solved within the next 24 hours.

[Sam]

Only here for a second but Getagrip has new translations from Diairo.

One  of the translations says Anita denies Lorenzo is Joran's half brother.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/

[Tylergal]

question for america:

why doesn't the us state departement put a serious travel warning out about aruba?
like they do for war zones, other corrupt regions in s-america and elsewhere.

i am saying this because then the dutch government has to respond.

the dutch politics have been very eerie quiet this week.
the whole county is confused maybe a bit in turmoil but we hear nothing from the parlaiment or government.

our prime minister will be very shocked if the us state departement put such a strong travel warning out.
(he likes to be bush his little puppy like tony blair was bush lap dog)

i've been emailling members of parlaiment but i am getting standard responses or responses like: it is a case for aruban OM back.

or did only de secretary of state of alabama put such a warning out?

Well, it would be a good time for the Gov. of the state to "reiterate" the Aruba ban, that would be one way to get folks in the Parliment to get their heads out their arses.

Well now is the time to put pressure on our U.S. govt. to do something like that, while it's still very exposed in the media right now.  This is an election year, wonder if somebody will bite?

There has been a warning on the state department .org site since 1993 which was placed there by the Clinton State Dept and further amplified by the Bush administration in 2005-2006.  We, as a country, do NOT BAN travel unless it is what could be a 'war zone' or hostile country for persons traveling to and/or fro, unless they could pose a threat to national security or treaties between nations forbidding persons convicted of certain crimes who are prohibitted to enter ad lib but that is at the discretion of treaties, etc. 

[martini]

I run all my search engines and this is what I come up with 

http://joran.ytmnd.com/

http://joranownshimself.ytmnd.com/

http://wutangster.ytmnd.com/  Warning!

http://inandoutof.ytmnd.com/

http://joranevilwoman.ytmnd.com/

http://healsoappearstohaveparkinsons.ytmnd.com/