Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #39 12/24/10 - 1/01/11

[islandmonkey]

As far as alcoholics, I have seen the most intelligent of people in denial about their own drinking as well as of spouse/child.

If one has not witnesses it, it's hard to imagine the denial in light of full face evidence.  Alcoholism is  a crazy disease and it affects everyone in the family.  I can easily see Kaine in denial and being shown the light when he was ready to see it regarding TH.

But why would TH give up her fight for parenting time if she is innocent?

I agree, but what about her declaration in 05 that she was at closet drinker? How does someone forget that.....I think she may have given up her parenting time under advice of counsel which she is entitled too, and frankly I'd have obtained way before she did. IIRC, she waited until the MFH sting before obatining counsel. All that being said, I don't give ANYONE a free pass on failure to protect or possible child endangerments, if someone is visibly drunk on the couch 3 nights a week, and they continue to let the "drunk" raise their child and drive around with that precious cargo, well denial is the least of the issues. I do think Kaine possibly didn't notice if he wasn't home enough, but I read he worked from home 3 days a week, but I think he had perception issues just as he did in the he said/she said cheating with Terri during his marriage. It's perception and IMO peep need to realize their kids come first period.........not their desires, and that goes for everyone involved in the sad case. I wonder if Kyron ever stood a chance

[Kat_Gram]

I have a new name for Terri's Facebook. Perfect family, perfect lives.
FAKEBOOK

[islandmonkey]

I have a new name for Terri's Facebook. Perfect family, perfect lives.
FAKEBOOK

Sad but true......I wonder how many ppl I know live fake, perfect live. I guess I am a tell it like it is, good bad or ugly, even when it's wrt my family. I just find that if I am open so are others, and we can brainstorm and talk about what worked for them or others instead of sticking our head in the sand and pretending like all is well.

[cw618]

I think that they met in the middle normally ..so it was more like a 2.5 hour ride each way for both Desiree and Terri.  It would make sense that they wouldn't leave Portland area until they knew Desiree was off work and on her way to meet them half way.

i was thinking maybe since TH was the primary driver for the meets, and roseburg is about a 100mi from medford,
TH and james could meet spend time with fam  too, while they waited for DY or TY to come and pick kyron up

Portland, OR to roseburg-.....179 mi – about 3 hours 21 mins
roseburg or to medford or-....96.9 mi – about 1 hour 44 mins
map
http://tinyurl.com/2e7pu63

[Tamikosmom]

Agreed, but also this was Desiree's weekend IIRC, and Kaine didn't know (how do you NOT know when it's every two weeks ) anyway, that is a long drive so why would they be taking him to get ice cream instead of just getting on the road. I read somewhere in traffics it's about 5-6 hrs? Please correct me if I am wrong 
That's how far out fo the loop he was. Whne a person has these shared weekends, you know. You make plans for your weekend and you pack the kids stuff for the other person's weekend.
Gee, and he is a high leve employee at Intel, he must have had other stuff on his mnd. Guess he wasn't planning on making the drive to the mid way point, but was going to get the drunk, passed out, slurring speech person in the house to do the driving. This stuff is going to bite him in the azz in his divorce. Doesn't make him look good, does it as far as parenting & who's tthe better parent.
And I must state, if I was Kaine, I would fight her also and drag it out for about 16.50 years.. 

I swear you are in my head......... I never understood that, and EVEN if he didn't know what was making her pass out on ther couch<rolls eyes>, I still wouldn't let them drive my child.

Not sure if anyone remembers Laurie Bembenek aka Bambi Bembenek, but something about this case triggered my mind last night....then I found out she just died last month, anyway everyone was so sure she was guilty. I am not saying this is all a big set up, but I am also not saying it's unheard of......especially in the Chicago area, but have seen it happen multiple times and while I prefer KISS (keep it simple stupid), for some reason this case won't let me go there

As I said previous ... early on when I considered the scenario of Kaine putting on Kaira's shoes and the three members of the Horman family taking off to meet the school bus ... I suspected either a setup or the Horman family was very close.

Kitty ... in that first press conference ... following a week of silence ... Kaine told the media to keep the focus on Kyron but in all later press conferences and interviews ... Kaine is keeping the focus on Terri.  Obviously ... in hindsight ... the implication in the first press conference was that the focus needs to be kept off Kaine.

It is true that Terri has many flaws in regards to character which made her a focus of suspicion in the disappearance of Kyron but ... maybe it is known there is NOTHING that would implicate her in taking her stepson from the school on June 4, 2010.

Think about it.

1.  Terri is not observed leaving the school with Kyron.
2.  Between 8:45 AM and 9:00 AM Kyron is observed at the school.
3. Terri possesses a 9:07 AM timed receipt that implies she is seven miles away at a FM.

When the above is considered ... the lack of an alibi and inconsistencies regarding Terris activities on the morning of June 4, 2010 ... are all for naught.

Could it be that the immediate anticipated disregard of Terri as a focus of interest did not happen and ... now Terri is expected to be patient and remain a TEAM PLAYER.  The far reaching implications of not playing the game implies that the house of cards will collapse and many will be held accountable.

Janet

+++++++

Ockham's Razor

You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

[starwynn]

I have a new name for Terri's Facebook. Perfect family, perfect lives.
FAKEBOOK

Sad but true......I wonder how many ppl I know live fake, perfect live. I guess I am a tell it like it is, good bad or ugly, even when it's wrt my family. I just find that if I am open so are others, and we can brainstorm and talk about what worked for them or others instead of sticking our head in the sand and pretending like all is well.

To play the devil's advocate    , sometimes people make things look extra-happy because they're not - not to deceive the public, but continuing to try to convince themselvels that they're really happy there, and not necessarily consciously.  Lord knows I did that when deep inside I knew my marriage was failing.  So it's still *possible* that she was doing the same. 

Now, was it likely?  Not imho.

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas - Mods

Please delete post #84.  I messed up.

Thanks

Janet

Done.  YW.  MB

[Kat_Gram]

Persons in my family were and are less than perfect. My GF was a not in the closet full blown alcoholic later in his life. He had a second wife and her grown up kids who enabled it as he would write them checks and hand out money when he had too much to drink. My Dad and his sisters were ones who wanted to do something and help my GF as he wasn't always like that.
The efforts over the years were unsuccessful as the second wife liked him that way. We never talked about it at the time, except to each other because it was a shameful thing, what was going on. I was the fearful nervous wreck insomniac migraine headache kid ( began when I was three ). A phone call at night, I knew it was trouble, an arrest for  DUI or some other sad event ending in his death.
Our family tried everything, courts, lawyers, speaking, not speaking, yelling, threats, a punch or two thrown by my Dad against her sons. lol, good one Dad !
I can speak of it now, all the players are dead. His drinking was something that made us all feel shame and guilt. We weren't in denial, but speaking for myself, I always felt as if there was something wrong with ME. That stuck for years and it is at the core of me. Love couldn't fix my GF.
When you have a drinker in the family, it isn't something you advertise with a neon sign on the lawn.
I never was in my GF car and neither were any of the rest of us. Our parents knew better than that and then so did we. That's what I don't get about Kaine letting her drive the kids around. I get the shame and the covering, but not the driving.
Didn't fool too many peeps, but we thought we did. My friends knew, peeps from the church knew, like everyone knew as I found out much later in life.

[no rose colored glasses]

I have a new name for Terri's Facebook. Perfect family, perfect lives.
FAKEBOOK

Sad but true......I wonder how many ppl I know live fake, perfect live. I guess I am a tell it like it is, good bad or ugly, even when it's wrt my family. I just find that if I am open so are others, and we can brainstorm and talk about what worked for them or others instead of sticking our head in the sand and pretending like all is well.

To play the devil's advocate    , sometimes people make things look extra-happy because they're not - not to deceive the public, but continuing to try to convince themselvels that they're really happy there, and not necessarily consciously.  Lord knows I did that when deep inside I knew my marriage was failing.  So it's still *possible* that she was doing the same. 

Now, was it likely?  Not imho.

You sure got that right, I believe a lot of people pretend, period. Whether to impress, make people think their marriage and family life is great, or too just convince. And then when you get to know some people and talk, slowly but surely you see that most of what they said is all BS.

[wildmala]

The whole thing justs smells of overkill. Kind of like Terri putting all of the family portraits on facebook, trying to portray a happy loving family. We now know that is not true. Maybe Kaine was planning on meeting Kyron at the stop since he missed the Science Fair. Then Terri suggested that she and Kiara come along. Maybe Terri just could not miss the look on Kaine's face when he realized his son was not on the bus?

 - Or wanted to make sure all 'played out' as per plan
 - Or wanted to be sure to have some back-up for her whereabouts for this period of time, as well

My thoughts only...

[cw618]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Still no trace of Kyron Horman as police, FBI conclude third day of search
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM     Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:20 PM

snips
Late Sunday, Multnomah County Sheriff Daniel Staton issued a status report and raised the case level to increase public interest and focus. He said additional searches and interviews are planned, but he declined to discuss strategy or specifics of the investigation.
-----
“Given the passage of time and the weather, we are characterizing this case as a missing endangered child,” he said.
----
Police remain stymied as to what happened to the second-grader, described by his grandmother as dreamy, sweet and a bit timid. His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.
----
During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.
---
Nora Schreiber,  a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

----
Schreiber said she and her son, Jacob, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.

=============me

to this day im still baffeld  why it took so long for Sheriff Daniel Staton, to change  the status to a crimminal inv. im sure while at the school at 3+pm, someone had to 
note kyron was marked absent, yet the parents are saying kyron was at school, that would
be a red flag to me, and my first thought would not be kyron wandered off, i know that
the Sheriff office, had not said at that time they were checking all scenarios, id like
to think they were, BC if they didnt, a lot of valuable time was lost, not pursing
other avenues

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Still no trace of Kyron Horman as police, FBI conclude third day of search
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM     Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:20 PM

snips
Late Sunday, Multnomah County Sheriff Daniel Staton issued a status report and raised the case level to increase public interest and focus. He said additional searches and interviews are planned, but he declined to discuss strategy or specifics of the investigation.
-----
“Given the passage of time and the weather, we are characterizing this case as a missing endangered child,” he said.
----
Police remain stymied as to what happened to the second-grader, described by his grandmother as dreamy, sweet and a bit timid. His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.
----
During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.
---
Nora Schreiber,  a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

----
Schreiber said she and her son, Jacob, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.

=============me

to this day im still baffeld  why it took so long for Sheriff Daniel Staton, to change  the status to a crimminal inv. im sure while at the school at 3+pm, someone had to 
note kyron was marked absent, yet the parents are saying kyron was at school, that would
be a red flag to me, and my first thought would not be kyron wandered off, i know that
the Sheriff office, had not said at that time they were checking all scenarios, id like
to think they were, BC if they didnt, a lot of valuable time was lost, not pursing
other avenues

 

In my opinion there are so many red flags which encompass the family's silence and the lack of action of LE immediately following the disappearance of Kyron.

In my opinion ... the investigation should have been headed in several different directions ... each direction covering a different scenario.

I believe when the truth is forthcoming ... there will be names who will be implicated ...  names that will shock this Portland community.

Janet

[Puzzler]

Agreed, but also this was Desiree's weekend IIRC, and Kaine didn't know (how do you NOT know when it's every two weeks ) anyway, that is a long drive so why would they be taking him to get ice cream instead of just getting on the road. I read somewhere in traffics it's about 5-6 hrs? Please correct me if I am wrong 
That's how far out fo the loop he was. Whne a person has these shared weekends, you know. You make plans for your weekend and you pack the kids stuff for the other person's weekend.
Gee, and he is a high leve employee at Intel, he must have had other stuff on his mnd. Guess he wasn't planning on making the drive to the mid way point, but was going to get the drunk, passed out, slurring speech person in the house to do the driving. This stuff is going to bite him in the azz in his divorce. Doesn't make him look good, does it as far as parenting & who's tthe better parent.
And I must state, if I was Kaine, I would fight her also and drag it out for about 16.50 years.. 

Why was Terri the one driving when she's a passing out drunk?  Why didn't Kaine drive and spend quality time with Kyron in the car on a 2.5 hour trip?

[Puzzler]

As far as alcoholics, I have seen the most intelligent of people in denial about their own drinking as well as of spouse/child.

If one has not witnesses it, it's hard to imagine the denial in light of full face evidence.  Alcoholism is  a crazy disease and it affects everyone in the family.  I can easily see Kaine in denial and being shown the light when he was ready to see it regarding TH.

But why would TH give up her fight for parenting time if she is innocent?

Denial - yet Kaine writes in his sworn affidavit to the court that Terri was passed out drunk, several nights a week, at 1:00 a.m.
Hello?  And...why was Kaine noticing these Terri events at 1:00 a.m. (his wording sounds like he was noticing this regularly -several nights a week - at around 1:00 a.m.)  Was Kaine out and just coming home at that time - several nights a week?  He said Kiara "was STILL up".  Did Kaine go to sleep so early in the day as to be in bed before it was Kiara's bedtime?  As Kiara's father, why wasn't he seeing to it that Kiara was in bed at an appropriate time for a toddler?  There are a number of questions as to Kaine's comments:  denial vs. 1:00 a.m.

[Puzzler]

The whole thing justs smells of overkill. Kind of like Terri putting all of the family portraits on facebook, trying to portray a happy loving family. We now know that is not true. Maybe Kaine was planning on meeting Kyron at the stop since he missed the Science Fair. Then Terri suggested that she and Kiara come along. Maybe Terri just could not miss the look on Kaine's face when he realized his son was not on the bus?

 - Or wanted to make sure all 'played out' as per plan
 - Or wanted to be sure to have some back-up for her whereabouts for this period of time, as well

My thoughts only...

The Facebook thing - maybe Terri wanted her marriage to be nice and pretty - it wasn't - but she wanted it to be (it's not easy living through the failing of a marriage) and so she clung to the marriage by making it pretty on Facebook - I think many, many people do that same type thing (wheter it be on Facebook or some other avenue).

[Puzzler]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Still no trace of Kyron Horman as police, FBI conclude third day of search
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM     Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:20 PM

snips
Late Sunday, Multnomah County Sheriff Daniel Staton issued a status report and raised the case level to increase public interest and focus. He said additional searches and interviews are planned, but he declined to discuss strategy or specifics of the investigation.
-----
“Given the passage of time and the weather, we are characterizing this case as a missing endangered child,” he said.
----
Police remain stymied as to what happened to the second-grader, described by his grandmother as dreamy, sweet and a bit timid. His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.
----
During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.
---
Nora Schreiber,  a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

----
Schreiber said she and her son, Jacob, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.

=============me

to this day im still baffeld  why it took so long for Sheriff Daniel Staton, to change  the status to a crimminal inv. im sure while at the school at 3+pm, someone had to 
note kyron was marked absent, yet the parents are saying kyron was at school, that would
be a red flag to me, and my first thought would not be kyron wandered off, i know that
the Sheriff office, had not said at that time they were checking all scenarios, id like
to think they were, BC if they didnt, a lot of valuable time was lost, not pursing
other avenues

During Stanton's last press interview in early December, he even stated that they lost two days thinking that Kyron "just walked away" and that it hurt the case and that he wished that hadn't happened.  I thought that was a huge admission on LE's part but it didn't seem to garner much interest at the time.

[Puzzler]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Still no trace of Kyron Horman as police, FBI conclude third day of search
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM     Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:20 PM

snips
Late Sunday, Multnomah County Sheriff Daniel Staton issued a status report and raised the case level to increase public interest and focus. He said additional searches and interviews are planned, but he declined to discuss strategy or specifics of the investigation.
-----
“Given the passage of time and the weather, we are characterizing this case as a missing endangered child,” he said.
----
Police remain stymied as to what happened to the second-grader, described by his grandmother as dreamy, sweet and a bit timid. His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.
----
During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.
---
Nora Schreiber,  a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

----
Schreiber said she and her son, Jacob, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.

=============me

to this day im still baffeld  why it took so long for Sheriff Daniel Staton, to change  the status to a crimminal inv. im sure while at the school at 3+pm, someone had to 
note kyron was marked absent, yet the parents are saying kyron was at school, that would
be a red flag to me, and my first thought would not be kyron wandered off, i know that
the Sheriff office, had not said at that time they were checking all scenarios, id like
to think they were, BC if they didnt, a lot of valuable time was lost, not pursing
other avenues

 

In my opinion there are so many red flags which encompass the family's silence and the lack of action of LE immediately following the disappearance of Kyron.

In my opinion ... the investigation should have been headed in several different directions ... each direction covering a different scenario.

I believe when the truth is forthcoming ... there will be names who will be implicated ...  names that will shock this Portland community.

Janet

Yes, six months later, it does seem like things are going that way.

[Kat_Gram]

When Kaine put all these things in the affaidavit about Terri, it refelected badly upon HIM, his judgement about the safety of HIS children before any of this happened. I am sure if we are able to pick up on this, so will her lawyer. I think the sexts will be thrown out and expunged. He didn't need them to file for a divorce,they were done after he left the house and they didn't serve any pupose in his divorce.  Just character assasination. Hey, and it worked.

[hellokitty]

 


I think that people talking to Kaine after the fact are the ones that pointed out that being drunk on the conch is a sign of an issue.

Hard as it may be to believe, a lot, and I mean  a lot of people, do not see the signs.

But there is no point in arguing it.  Either people have seen the crazy denial in others or they haven't.

I live in an area that has huge alcohol issues.  So maybe that is why I have seen this with educated people who one would think know better.  But they don't.  Not until their names are splashed all over the front page of the paper because they have big positions in my community.

[Tamikosmom]

Puzzler

The "Horman Ground Rules" revealed in Kaine and Desiree's first press conference  prevented skeletons from being exposed in Kaine's life and ... only Terri's character flaws could be vulified.

I just do not understand the double standard.  I am not implying that Kaine is involved  with the disappearance of son but ... he is not a nice guy ... he should not be above suspicion.  A guy who has an extra-marital affair when his wife is one month away from giving birth reveals a guy who lacks a conscience

Janet

+++++++

Dateline NBC puts story of missing Kyron in national eye
Published: Monday, July 26, 2010, 11:17 PM
Updated: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 4:26 PM

Desiree Young also elaborated on her split with Kaine Horman in 2002, saying that her then-husband struck up a relationship with Terri Moulton Horman while she was eight months pregnant.

“It was pretty hard to handle,” Young said. “I cried solid for two months and didn't leave the bedroom, because I didn't understand why she somehow equated to something better than me and my son.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/dateline_nbc_highlights_puts_s.html