Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[Nut44x4]

Perhaps it was Sander in the boat...hence his phone is with Natalee.

[Spock]

Here is something that is bothering me:

Koen's alibi is that he was at a party with many guests and not in Aruba, the day after Natalee went missing. However, its is also said that, he attempted to provide an alibi for Joran, by saying he was playing tennis with him that Monday afternoon and evening. I have read that the prosecutor in June 2005 wanted to interview him but couldn't, and his Father gave a statement in his place. So what is the truth here?

1. Was Koen in Aruba?
2. Did Koen meet with Joran Sunday or Monday?
3. Did Koen give a statement in early June 2005?
4. Did Koen invite Joran on a boat party that sunday evening but Joran said he was going to C&C instead?
5. How can someone be in Aruba or not be in Aruba all at the same time?

#4 - No, it was Sander that invited Joran on the boat but Joran said no.  It's in one of Sanders statements.

So, was Koen in Aruba or not?

I honestly don't know, but I bet ALE does!

It's getting clearer. Koen was not in Aruba, Joran lied about the tennis club meeting. However, Sander and the boat were out that Sunday night.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Perhaps it was Sander in the boat...hence his phone is with Natalee.

Wonder what his phone records looked like for 5/30/05.....good thought on where his 'stolen' phone is...

[MumInOhio]

We don't know if Koen, Val and Sebastian were even in Aruba or if Freddy was sleeping in Jorans' bed. Can you say alibi? If only we knew where these guys really were!

[oceanexploration]

Anna,

The search will go on regardless of the delays.  We are going in with the purpose of finding Natalee and bringing closure to the family.  From my understanding, the delays on this end just push back the search and will not shorten it. Also, the search is not dependant on the case being open or closed.  That's not our concern.  It's all for the family.

[Spock]

Here is something that is bothering me:

Koen's alibi is that he was at a party with many guests and not in Aruba, the day after Natalee went missing. However, its is also said that, he attempted to provide an alibi for Joran, by saying he was playing tennis with him that Monday afternoon and evening. I have read that the prosecutor in June 2005 wanted to interview him but couldn't, and his Father gave a statement in his place. So what is the truth here?

1. Was Koen in Aruba?
2. Did Koen meet with Joran Sunday or Monday?
3. Did Koen give a statement in early June 2005?
4. Did Koen invite Joran on a boat party that sunday evening but Joran said he was going to C&C instead?
5. How can someone be in Aruba or not be in Aruba all at the same time?

#4 - No, it was Sander that invited Joran on the boat but Joran said no.  It's in one of Sanders statements.

So, was Koen in Aruba or not?

I honestly don't know, but I bet ALE does!

It's getting clearer. Koen was not in Aruba, Joran lied about the tennis club meeting. However, Sander and the boat were out that Sunday night.

If this was my case, I would be trying to figure out, who was with sander on the boat that night , and what the timeline was.

[Anna]

Anna,

The search will go on regardless of the delays.  We are going in with the purpose of finding Natalee and bringing closure to the family.  From my understanding, the delays on this end just push back the search and will not shorten it. Also, the search is not dependant on the case being open or closed.  That's not our concern.  It's all for the family.

Thanks!  I was getting concerned with all this bad weather.  Hope the storm moves out of that region quickly and leaves all in its wake safe.

.

[Altruist]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that phony airline bookings could be provided to the PERVERTS.

What would surprise me is that the destination records could be falsified without leaving any trail if researched.  Now again one of the infamous questions IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE USA WITH AUTHORITY INVESTIGATING ANY OF THIS??????

[Spock]

Anna,
The search will go on regardless of the delays.  We are going in with the purpose of finding Natalee and bringing closure to the family.  From my understanding, the delays on this end just push back the search and will not shorten it. Also, the search is not dependant on the case being open or closed.  That's not our concern.  It's all for the family.

Thank you for the update and for the help you are giving to the family. How long do you expect to be conducting the search?

[sparrow]

God be with you oceans.

[oceanexploration]

I really don't know how long it will take.  The obvious answer:  I guess we'll see won't we.

[truthseeker2]

I have said many times on this site that Sander's phone being 'stolen' is way to coincidental.  When questioned he immediately said "stolen"...not lost.  If they can ping everyone else's cell phone they should be able to ping this 'missing' phone.

1. Sander invites Joran to a party on his father's boat 05/29
2. Natalee is missing 05/29-05/30
3. Sander's phone is missing 05/30

Yes, it would be interesting to know who was on that boat.

The phone is interesting in that I believe if Sander was with Joran and Deepak those two could have used Sander's phone to send that IM 'conversation' (that was not really a conversation in terms of one person says something and then the other person says something) through their computers.  Those IM's were not conversational.  Deepak posted 3 then Joran posted 3.  Could Deepak have sent his 3 and then handed the phone to Joran to post his responses???

[Spock]

I really don't know how long it will take.  The obvious answer:  I guess we'll see won't we.

Thank You and God Bless You for this extraordinary effort.

[Magnolia]

I do not remember reading any from Koen...although like the mac.com link states...looks like he was questioned.

Dave and Art Wood said that Koen had never been questioned.
I can't remember when they said that, but it was later in the timeframe.

[Helen Back]

OceanEx:

Safe travels for you!  I have a feeling your exploration will be an extraordinary, history-making success.  Truly heroic, you all are.

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/11/

Not much on this first article; guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Yiu adicto a propina su mama seis hinca ayera
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN) un caso cu por tabata tin final fatal a tuma lugar ayera merdia den Semeleerstraat na Noord, unda un persona cu ta adicto a propina su mama seis hinca.

Na dado momento polis hasta mester a saca arma pe te cu el a dicidi di laga e arma blanco cay. Den e edicion aki por lesa mas di e caso aki.

Online Pap translation:

child adicto owing to propina his mother six hinca yesterday

oranjestad(aan) one caso cu can was have end fateful did take lugar yesterday afternoon in semeleerstraat at north, where one person cu is adicto owing to propina his mother six hinca.

at dado instant police even have to owing to saca arm pe till cu past owing to dicidi of let the arm blanco cay. in the edicion here can read more of the caso here.

* * *
Diario brings up a "secondary" concern in the case - one or more dangerous people are marching freely around Auba. Also mentions specific snippets of the taped polis van conversation.

Den caso Natalee;
TIN SOSPECHOSONAN PELIGROSO TA CANA ROND
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN) --Te awe no tabata tin atencion berdadero pa loke ta trata un of mas persona peligroso cu keto bay ta cana rond den nos comunidad siendo cu nan tabata envolvi den desaparicion di Natalee Halloway.

  Mester menciona e palabra peligroso pasobra cualkier persona envolvi sea ta uno of mas cu uno, kende of kendenan tabata capaz y dispuesto pa laga un persona desaparece cu te awe ningun autoridad policial of hudicial por yega na haya sa paradero di dje; tipo di hendenan asina ta peligroso.
  Hopi a wordo papia y investiga pero un di e aspectonan secundario mas importante cu autoridadnan hudicial te awe no a tene cuenta cune ta, cu riba nos isla y kizas den exterior tambe, tin hende ta cana rond cu tin di haci cu asesinato, rape, morto, maltrato etc di of desaparicion di un hoben americano cu a bin Aruba pa pasa vakantie.

  Te cu ultimo simannan tur atencion tabata dirigi riba solamente tres sospechoso cu ya rond mundo ta conoci, siendo cu cualkier investigador cu analisa bon e raportnan di polis y tambe otro informacionnan relaciona cu e caso di Natalee, ta saca e conclusion cu tin por lo menos tres otro persona mas cu tambe ta sospechoso y cu mester wordo deteni pa interogacion berdadero.

  E caso di Natalee a laga pueblo di Aruba sera conoci cu husticia di clase pasobra e trato cu e sospechosonan a haya den e caso aki tabata un trato cu hamas y nunca un yiu di tera a yega di haya den casonan similar.

  Pa casonan di menos peso, un arubiano crioyo tabata haya tur peso di persecusion penal y policial riba su lomba pero den e caso di Natalee tabata bon bisto cu door cu tabata trata di yiu di un funcionario hulandes di pa colmo e aparato hudicial na Aruba, ta pesey nan a haya un trato preferencial y awor a bin sali afor cu te hasta trato cuestionable nan a haya di un halto funcionario di Ministerio Publico, segun declaracionnan haci door di ex comisario Dompig.

  Durante simannan venidero redaccion lo bay publica sistematicamente con cierto aspectonan importante di e caso a tuma lugar segun informacionnan general riba e caso.Loke a hala hopi atencion den e caso aki tabata conversacion graba den e auto cu tabata transporta e tres sospechosonan principal, unda cu e tresnan aki a haci declaracionnan contra otro cu ta duna tur indicacion cu algo malo lo a pasa cu Natalee.

  Pakico un di e Kalpoenan a bisa Joran cu ‘si nan haya e mucha muher anto e ora Joran lo haya basta aña di castigo’?Si tabata trata di bluff entre tres adolescente anto cada ken por pensa riba diferente otro asunto pero no den un caso asina serio.

  E otro declaracion unda cu Joran den e mesun auto ta bisa un di e Kalpoenan algo a la estilo; “e mucha muher cu bo a dal cu auto!’Cua mucha muher un di e Kalpoenan a dal cu auto?Esakinan ta djis algun aspecto cu lo wordo treci pa dilanti durante dianan venidero pa asina cada ken por haya un mihor bista riba diferente informacion cu no tabata conoci pa publico en general y no tabata tin analisis traha riba nan.

Keda pendiente pasobra tin hendenan cu a sali di e aparato hudicial y ta pakico nan a sali of a bay traha otro caminda pa despues di tempo sea directo of indirecto nan mes basha abao of crea e impresion di ta basha abao den e caso di Natalee?!
 
  Mientrastanto pueblo di Aruba tin cu biba cu e hecho cu keto bay tin un of mas persona peligroso ta cana rond ribs e isla y cu kizas lo por laga mas hende desaparece den futuro pasobra te awe ni tres mucha autoridadnan policial y di ministerio publico no por a mansa den e caso di desaparicion di Natalee siendo cu ta nan tres tabata e ultimonan cu a wordo mira cu Natalee.

Online Pap translation:

in caso natalee;
have sospechosonan dangerous is march rond

oranjestad (aan) --te today not was have atencion berdadero for thing is deal one or more person dangerous cu keto bay is march rond in we comunidad siendo cu they was envolvi in desaparicion of natalee halloway.

have to menciona the word dangerous because cualkier person envolvi as is uno or more cu uno, that or kendenan was capaz y dispuesto for let one person desaparece cu till today none autoridad policial or hudicial can arrive at achieve know paradero of dje; type of hendenan so is dangerous.

much owing to wordo talk y investiga but one of the aspectonan secundario more important cu autoridadnan hudicial till today not owing to as cuenta cune is, cu on we island y kizas in exterior also, have person is march rond cu have of haci cu asesinato, rape, dead, maltrato etc of or desaparicion of one young americano cu owing to come aruba for happen vakantie.

till cu ultimo simannan all atencion was dirigi on only three sospechoso cu already rond world is conoci, siendo cu cualkier investigador cu analisa good the raportnan of police y also another informacionnan relaciona cu the caso of natalee, is saca the conclusion cu have at least three another person more cu also is sospechoso y cu have to wordo deteni for interogacion berdadero.

the caso of natalee owing to let people of aruba close conoci cu husticia of clase because the trato cu the sospechosonan owing to achieve in the caso here was one trato cu never y never one child of ground owing to arrive of achieve in casonan similar.

for casonan of less weight, one aruban crioyo {crioyo?} was achieve all weight of persecusion penal y policial on his back but in the caso of natalee was good bisto cu door cu was deal of child of one funcionario dutch of for colmo the apparatus hudicial at aruba, is pesey they owing to achieve one trato preferencial y now owing to come leave afor cu till even trato cuestionable they owing to achieve of one high funcionario of ministerio publico, according declaracionnan haci door of ex comisario dompig.

during simannan venidero redaccion will bay publica sistematicamente con cierto aspectonan important of the caso did take lugar according informacionnan general on the caso.loke owing to wing much atencion in the caso here was conversacion graba in the car cu was transporta the three sospechosonan principal, where cu the tresnan here owing to haci declaracionnan contra another cu is give all indicacion cu algo bad will owing to happen cu natalee.

pakico one of the kalpoenan owing to tell joran cu ‘si they achieve the child muher then the hour joran will achieve enough year of castigo’?si was deal of bluff among three adolescente then cada that can think on various another asunto but not in one caso so earnest.

the another declaracion where cu joran in the same car is tell one of the kalpoenan algo owing to la estilo; “e child muher cu you have strike cu car!’cua child muher one of the kalpoenan owing to strike cu car?esakinan is immidiately some aspecto cu will wordo treci for fast during dianan venidero for so cada that can achieve one mihor view on various informacion cu not was conoci for publico provided that general y not was have analisis work on they.

stay pendiente because have hendenan cu owing to leave of the apparatus hudicial y is pakico they owing to leave or owing to bay work another caminda for after of time as directo or indirecto they self pour abao or crea the impresion of is pour abao in the caso of natalee?!

all the time people of aruba have cu live cu the mature cu keto bay have one or more person dangerous is march rond ribs the island y cu kizas will can let more person desaparece in future because till today neither three child autoridadnan policial y of ministerio publico not can owing to mansa in the caso of desaparicion of natalee siendo cu is they three was the ultimonan cu owing to wordo see cu natalee.

* * *

[MumInOhio]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that phony airline bookings could be provided to the PERVERTS.

What would surprise me is that the destination records could be falsified without leaving any trail if researched.  Now again one of the infamous questions IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE USA WITH AUTHORITY INVESTIGATING ANY OF THIS??????

Good question! Would not think it would have been that hard to verify on this end.

If ALE knew Koen was in Florida, then why would they need to question him 4 times. Makes me wonder.

Safe travels, OceanEx.

[Helen Back]

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that phony airline bookings could be provided to the PERVERTS.

What would surprise me is that the destination records could be falsified without leaving any trail if researched.  Now again one of the infamous questions IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE USA WITH AUTHORITY INVESTIGATING ANY OF THIS??????

If Koen wasn't even on Aruba when Natalee went missing, what would be the explanation for his "meltdown" problems that followed?  Those type of behavior problems are demonstrative of "consciousness of guilt".  Not normal behavior of one who has no involvement.  Also doubt he would be having such difficulties just because his brother had been involved.  There must be more to this part of the story.  Two businesses and a family uprooted and relocated pronto, just because their kids were hanging out with some bad influences?  Pretty drastic, IMO.

[Tylergal]

I want one too but my husband said no 

I saw that precious baby and I wanted one too but DH has that dog from Hell that is jealous of everything that breathes.

[Nut44x4]

Can you 'ping' a phone underwater?