Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 - 6/17/10

[SunnyinTX]

I find it satisfying that the tables have been turned on Joran, for up until now, he has been convinced that he can do anything and get away with it.  He was reared in an atmosphere that it's acceptable to lie at any point in time, to anyone, even LE.  He has mocked Goodness in his evil.

Totally agree, Ono

[Tamikosmom]

I totally agree...and had the management of the Holiday Inn and the other casinos not allowed minors.....well you know....the fact that hs parents allowed him to go to casinos, gamble, have girls in his quarters.....all those events led to him being given free reign.....and he  to expect that he should not be told no....

THE CHAIN OF EVENTS

The Excelsior Casino

Rita Cosby Live & Direct - April 4, 2006

RITA COSBY, HOST:  John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process. 

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Caros & Charlies

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0

[cw618]

klaasend post the magazine
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8111.msg1163100#msg1163100

 klaasend if you go to this map link, and check the pics and the zoom of
the bird sanctuary, i dont think he could bury someone there, and someone
not know or find her by now, it is maintained and monitored for the birds
hes lying
http://wiki.worldflicks.org/bubali_bird_sanctuary.html#coords=(12.5593414,-70.04944515)&z=16

[SunnyinTX]

RECENT ACTIVITY
Melody and Groceries Aruba are now friends. · Add as Friend
Melody likes Scared Monkeys.
Melody and Amito Aruba are now friends. · Add as Friend


http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=100000717925522&v=wall&ref=search

I am not going to bad mouth Melody for anything she is doing now. She probably needs the money from selling her story to maintain a decent life for herself and her beautiful little girl. I understand the child's father is a real loser. I doubt she would be doing this if Joran was the father of that child. Her story makes us wonder how such a 'good kid' could turn out to be such a heinous monster.

Misgivings, I was not bad mouthing Melody....I just posted that she was likes ScaredMonkeys on her facebook............so I am a bit confused by your statement

[SunnyinTX]

thanks Janet and Good Morning to all, Monks and Guests.  I WANT TO  Know who is paying any private attorney..............Anita is claiming she can't even buy a ticket to Peru?   What happened to the Dutch news group that was supposed to be there with her?

Wishing I could blame the omitted words and letters on my computer....but I can't!  LOL

My keyboard can't spell either!

LOL...we must have related keyboards!!

[SunnyinTX]

Sunny, in some article posted here it said the judge could appoint a private attorney as well, not just a public defender.  So I guess that is what they will do since the question of adequate counsel has been raised.

At least, if one is court appointed maybe people won't threaten to kill him since he would have no say in the matter.  But isn't it ironic that the very one who was saying Joran didn't have adequate counsel for his confession is now not wanting any part of it all.  Guess he never thought about no one else would want the job, either..

Thanks Anna, I misread that then...I thought the appointed attorney was a PD

[SunnyinTX]

The newest NE (thanks to SAN):

SNIPPED

thanks San and Klaas....how misleading.......damn RAGS!!

[Tamikosmom]

I totally agree...and had the management of the Holiday Inn and the other casinos not allowed minors.....well you know....the fact that hs parents allowed him to go to casinos, gamble, have girls in his quarters.....all those events led to him being given free reign.....and he  to expect that he should not be told no....

THE CHAIN OF EVENTS

The Excelsior Casino

Rita Cosby Live & Direct - April 4, 2006

RITA COSBY, HOST:  John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process. 

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Caros & Charlies

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0

Sunny

Could it be that part of the cover up agenda in the Natalee Holloway case to distance an underage Joran in the Natalee Holloway case was all about preventing possible civil lawsuits brought by the family against the Excelsior and Carlos & Charlies?

Janet

[canoworms]

I remember Melody posting on RWV, especially about Aruban girls not going to Carlos and Charlies because they know better, the intimation being that "nice" girls wouldn't go there. So this was something known by the locals and their parents and protective parents wouldn't be very comfortable allowing their teen age daughters to hang out at a place infamous for dangerous activities going on and being tolerated ( didn't we see pictures of police officials there having a drink--or was that for alleged security reasons?).
 
These are among the same places the party buses make a beeline for when they pick up the next batch of naieve tourists. Arubans knew this just as New Yorkers know not to send unsuspecting friends and relatives to the worst parts of the city where muggings and robberies frequently occur. The difference is that they didn't want us to know they knew. And so the fantasy continues that nothing bad happens on Aruba, to anyone, at anytime - as long as they have enough advance warning to sweep it under the rug until the rug becomes so bumpy that the bad stuff oozes out.

 Charles Croes posted on a travel board, two months before Natalee went missing, about his disgust of the "tone" and content of the messages posted from young males trying to make suggestions to the young woman visiting-- one in particular that was replied to by a mother who was alarmed that the very same thing was suggested to her daughter, underage, and she decided to leave her daughter at home rather than find out she crawled out of a window to meet a local unknown at Carlos and Charlies.

They have no one but themselves to blame for not addressing the criminal element on their island and placing blame on innocent tourists who are encouraged to drink, drink, drink, lose all their money,and then be led like innocent lambs to the slaughter when they are not in control of their faculties.

Selena

[canoworms]

I seem to remember that there were pics of Joran with an older guy at CnC. I think the bartender knew him there, too, or was aware of his age. I don't remember the name of the guy in the picture, in fact I think he was edited out, but there was also a pic of Joran with him in a house or a party.
Selena

[Tamikosmom]

Joran van der Sloot's Ex-Girlfriend on Dutch Playboy's Other Side
In Exclusive '20/20' Interview, Melody Granadillo Says She's Now Scared Looking Into First Love's Eyes
June 17, 2010

Before the world knew him as a notorious alleged killer of young women, Melody Granadillo knew Joran van der Sloot as a personal prince charming.

He was amazing. ... He was romantic," the 23-year-old said of her former boyfriend and first love, in an exclusive interview to air on "20/20" Friday. "It was very playful, very honest. We could sit and talk for hours. We liked looking into each other's eyes."

The couple met at a mutual friend's birthday party in Aruba in October 2003 and dated for seven months. The 16-year-old quickly fell head over heels in love with 17-year-old van der Sloot -- the man she calls "Chi Chi" or "Mr. Wiggles."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-girlfriend-dutch-playboy-exclusive/story?id=10935055
 

[SunnyinTX]

I totally agree...and had the management of the Holiday Inn and the other casinos not allowed minors.....well you know....the fact that hs parents allowed him to go to casinos, gamble, have girls in his quarters.....all those events led to him being given free reign.....and he  to expect that he should not be told no....

THE CHAIN OF EVENTS

The Excelsior Casino

Rita Cosby Live & Direct - April 4, 2006

RITA COSBY, HOST:  John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY:  Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process. 

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Caros & Charlies

Joran van der Sloot - Suspect Statement - June 9, 2005

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=160.0

Sunny

Could it be that part of the cover up agenda in the Natalee Holloway case to distance an underage Joran in the Natalee Holloway case was all about preventing possible civil lawsuits brought by the family against the Excelsior and Carlos & Charlies?

Janet

I think that might be part of it.....I hope, and would assume, Beth and Dave have looked into seeing if a civil suit against them is possible....

[Dragnet]

I remember Melody posting on RWV, especially about Aruban girls not going to Carlos and Charlies because they know better, the intimation being that "nice" girls wouldn't go there. So this was something known by the locals and their parents and protective parents wouldn't be very comfortable allowing their teen age daughters to hang out at a place infamous for dangerous activities going on and being tolerated ( didn't we see pictures of police officials there having a drink--or was that for alleged security reasons?).
 
These are among the same places the party buses make a beeline for when they pick up the next batch of naieve tourists. Arubans knew this just as New Yorkers know not to send unsuspecting friends and relatives to the worst parts of the city where muggings and robberies frequently occur. The difference is that they didn't want us to know they knew. And so the fantasy continues that nothing bad happens on Aruba, to anyone, at anytime - as long as they have enough advance warning to sweep it under the rug until the rug becomes so bumpy that the bad stuff oozes out.
 Charles Croes posted on a travel board, two months before Natalee went missing, about his disgust of the "tone" and content of the messages posted from young males trying to make suggestions to the young woman visiting-- one in particular that was replied to by a mother who was alarmed that the very same thing was suggested to her daughter, underage, and she decided to leave her daughter at home rather than find out she crawled out of a window to meet a local unknown at Carlos and Charlies.

They have no one but themselves to blame for not addressing the criminal element on their island and placing blame on innocent tourists who are encouraged to drink, drink, drink, lose all their money,and then be led like innocent lambs to the slaughter when they are not in control of their faculties.

Selena

I love that statement. (bolded). 

And I remember when this case first broke that Charles was posting on the aol travel message boards.  Wow seems like so long ago now.

[canoworms]

hi Dragnet!
Seems like only yesterday AND so long ago.

[Ono]

I find it satisfying that the tables have been turned on Joran, for up until now, he has been convinced that he can do anything and get away with it.  He was reared in an atmosphere that it's acceptable to lie at any point in time, to anyone, even LE.  He has mocked Goodness in his evil.

Totally agree, Ono

And come to think of it-his parents knew years ago that they should have kept him on a very short leash with history of uncontrolled temper tantrums.  Instead they tried to sweep it all under the rug. Sinful.

[Lifesong]

I remember Melody posting on RWV, especially about Aruban girls not going to Carlos and Charlies because they know better, the intimation being that "nice" girls wouldn't go there. So this was something known by the locals and their parents and protective parents wouldn't be very comfortable allowing their teen age daughters to hang out at a place infamous for dangerous activities going on and being tolerated ( didn't we see pictures of police officials there having a drink--or was that for alleged security reasons?).
 
These are among the same places the party buses make a beeline for when they pick up the next batch of naieve tourists. Arubans knew this just as New Yorkers know not to send unsuspecting friends and relatives to the worst parts of the city where muggings and robberies frequently occur. The difference is that they didn't want us to know they knew. And so the fantasy continues that nothing bad happens on Aruba, to anyone, at anytime - as long as they have enough advance warning to sweep it under the rug until the rug becomes so bumpy that the bad stuff oozes out.

 Charles Croes posted on a travel board, two months before Natalee went missing, about his disgust of the "tone" and content of the messages posted from young males trying to make suggestions to the young woman visiting-- one in particular that was replied to by a mother who was alarmed that the very same thing was suggested to her daughter, underage, and she decided to leave her daughter at home rather than find out she crawled out of a window to meet a local unknown at Carlos and Charlies.

They have no one but themselves to blame for not addressing the criminal element on their island and placing blame on innocent tourists who are encouraged to drink, drink, drink, lose all their money,and then be led like innocent lambs to the slaughter when they are not in control of their faculties.

Selena

One of the best posts I've read on this subject.  Very well said, Selena, and thank you.

I can tell you that when tourists come to Nashville they are not directed to dangerous parts of town.  The tour buses they get on (and we do have party buses here too) take them to a very safe, well-lit, extremely well patrolled and therefore 'tourist ready' district of our city.

Our tourism dollars are a large part of our economy, therefore we treat our tourists with respect.  We do not allow our citizens to pray upon them, I can't even imagine it being a silent agreement amongst our local population that our sons be free to drug and rape our tourists.  Its a notion so absurd at face value that its difficult to believe for those that don't know this is how Aruba operates. (Edit per Lifesong-MB)

JMO

[Tamikosmom]

Van Der Sloot Faces Long Wait in Desolate Peruvian Prison System
Playboy Could Land in One of the World's Harshest Prisons
June 17, 2010

Charged in the strangling death of a young Peruvian woman last month, Joran van der Sloot, the Dutch playboy also suspected of killing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway five years ago in Aruba, is awaiting trial in a desolate Peruvian prison. ......

More:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/joran-van-der-sloot-faces-peruvian-prison-sentence/story?id=10929335&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/joran-van-der-sloot-faces-peruvian-prison-sentence/story?id=10929335&page=2

[Ono]

canoworms-lol--our rug-sweeping brain waves!!!! 

[Lifesong]

s/b

 Its a notion so absurd at face value that its difficult to believe for those that don't know this is how Aruba operates. (Fixed-MB)

[canoworms]

thanks Lifesong and I have been to your city and Chattanooga,that has a beautiful riverfront walk.
We know crime is everywhere. At the Olympics in Atlanta there were goodwill ambassadors on the corner directing people to better places and helping people avois the skectchy area. Aruba could take a lesson here on how to respectfully treat the people who pay their wages, literally.
S