Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[novella]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

In this video, he starts out saying her is aware of the emails.

It is a video of the full conference Kaine gave at the wall today.
Edit to add link, MB:  http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

I missed that...thanks.  

[klaasend]

It's pretty easy for those on the outside, that don't know all the facts, to place blame.  Please be careful vilifying Kaine or Desiree unless you really know all the facts.  None of us know.  Unless LE tells us otherwise KAINE, DESIREE and TONY are all victims.

All we know is that it's obvious now that Terri had problems and  it appears she had a hatred for Kyron.  It also appears that LE considers Terri the main suspect in Kryon's disappearance even though she has not been officially charged or named.

[novella]

Yes, if those emails are legitimate it is pretty sad that a grown woman could hate a seven year old.  It seems like many parents these days refuse to grow up and take responsibility for the children they brought into this world or for those they accepted responsibility for by marrying someone with children. 

[Brandi]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

In this video, he starts out saying her is aware of the emails.

It is a video of the full conference Kaine gave at the wall today.

I missed that...thanks. 

So sorry, I omitted the link!

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

[islandmonkey]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

  I just have a curious question........how can it be both???

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me 

I agree...Kaine can't have it both ways.  And I am not badmouthing any party...just stating the obvious.

Agreed.......but is there and atty on this thread? I am wondering what the laws are for affadavits filed in Oregon, can they contain supposition and theory, can they contain heresay OR do they have to be facts witnessed by the Affiant? TIA, I am trying to remember my affadavits from my seperation and divorce, and I recall mine being facts I witnessed but that may not always be the case

[Gypsy DD]

I don't get the difficulty in understanding why someone can find a person's behavior odd but not understand exactly why until later. Parents often have that problem with their teens, who start behaving differently, dressing sloppy, cutting school, sullenness, sleeping all day, up all night. The lightbulb goes on when they find drugs in their kid's room or the kid gets busted. Until then, it's "hormones", "trying to assert their independence," or "just the territory that goes with being a teen."

Hypothetical Scenario:  If my spouse behaved oddly and badly at times, it might be covered up as being something wrong with ME; something I did or said was making the spouse upset and I'd be trying to figure it out; lack of communication causing spouse to retreat to overdrinking at night after a stressful day with the kids, also my fault somehow. Little do I know, it's all an act to keep me at bay while spouse flirts and finds new fiance-to-be online, abuses alcohol, drugs or whatever, and plans a carefree, spouse-free life in the near future.

ITA

Remember Kaine was being told by Terri that she had PPD and was taking meds for it and they had been seeking counseling.  I think it would be very easy for a husband to dismiss much of her behavior to the PPD.

I also think that Kaine, Desiree and Tony..as well as all the chidren involved were and are her victims.  I believe that the full responsibility for any of Terri's actions rests with Terri.  She was an adult and had free choice to leave..she did not..not until she was literally kicked from the premises. 

[Tamikosmom]

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me 

I do not believe that Kaine had anything directly to do with the disappearance of his son and ... I cannot imagine the emotional pain he is experiencing.  However ... there is a trust issue when the inconsistencies in his words regarding the environment that his children were living in under Terri's watch is considered.  I believe his THEN AND NOW words may border on an obstruction of the investigation.  IMO

Janet

++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM
 
In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

[Curly]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

[islandmonkey]

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me 

I do not believe that Kaine had anything directly to do with the disappearance of his son and ... I cannot imagine the emotional pain he is experiencing.  However ... there is a trust issue when the inconsistencies in his words regarding the environment that his children were living in under Terri's watch is considered.  I believe his THEN AND NOW words may border on an obstruction of the investigation.  IMO

Janet

++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM
 
In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

Never thought of that Janet........interesting point .

I guess my point is VISIBLY IMPAIRED (and that's just one of the issues with the stmt). IMO visibly impaired impaired by alcohol means just what it says ......but nevertheless if my hubby had all the issues stated above in blue, whether I knew for sure what they were alcohol or not, I wouldn't allow them to drive with two of my kids or even be alone with them, I guess it's about accountability and not after the fact when it's disclosed for other custody issues, but when it happened and what steps were taken to prevent this behavoir in the future.

I finally watched Desiree on GMA and that was horrific to watch, I am grateful that it is getting Kyron's face and story in the news though

[klaasend]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

Many years ago my husband and I had friends.  Every time we would get together the guy would fall asleep.  Didn't matter what we were doing, he would fall asleep.  Eat and sleep.  Turns out he was depressed, bored in his marriage and was escaping but was not drinking.  The couple divorced.  Now, if I were told later that he was also drinking I would never have known.  He was "passing out".

[Scatty]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

He could possibly have thought at the time that she'd stayed up late and not wanted to disturb him. Or if she had a drink by her that she'd had one or two to relax at night; alcohol is a depressant, and could have caused sleepiness eventually. 

IMO, alcohol/substance abuse are part and parcel of the sociopath. They use it to cover up a worse truth--their personality disorder.

[Puzzler]

In Kaine's filing about her drinking and Kiara, he is saying that this drinking is a reason for her not to see Kiara NOW. Yet, it seems as if she was with Kiara 24 / 7 and in charge of her when they were under the same roof BEFORE. I know from past experience that everything in divorce papers is the truth, yep.

Kaine probably knew there was a problem before and was trying to deal with it, but after Kyron's disappearance he started learning more about her drinking habits from friends and acquaintances and realized the problem was much worse than he previously thought. Alcoholics are masters at hiding their problem, but it eventually comes out.

To me, he has been telling the truth all along. The difference is based on his knowledge between then and now.

I agree that things can be exaggerated in divorce cases, but since there is so much publicity about this one and so much is at stake with Kyron and Kiara, his lawyer may be meticulous with details.

I'm very late...pages to go to catch up on...if this has been addressed already, then I apologize.

Kaine "probably knew"....if I recal correctly, Kaine said in his court filing that Terri was a stumbling, speech slurring, passed out in the living room drunk night after night.  Wow!  If all that's true....Kaine "did" know there was a problem and had known it for a while.

[novella]

Since I don't work with the police...different line of investigation...I am wondering if it is common to show potential evidence...the emails...to the parent of a missing child?  That is not something we would do with a witness or family member, but we would show incriminating (motive) emails to the perp...Part of the "We know All".  By showing DY and KH the emails and both of them talking about it on the news gives TH a heads up of what to expect.  Why would LE do this? I find that very strange.  Is LE hoping for a reaction?  Since Terri has not really reacted to anything that KH or DY has said publicly...whose reaction are they looking at?

I find this very confusing.

[Puzzler]

Wow! Desiree has a lot to say. Dumps all over Kaine.

Her interview starts at 2:03. Total segment 6:44.

Kaas? Anyone? Can this be embedded in the thread? Thanks.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

Wow, just wow!  Oh, man....listening to Desiree gave me cold chills!

I KNEW Desiree would be livid after finding out about Kaine's court filings.  Livid at Kaine.  And IMO she should be...I know if I were in her shoes I would have been livid to find out things Kaine has filed in court.  He never said anything to Desiree about all of this...is it true!?!?!

[novella]

I know that parents of the missing want answers...but how did that go down?  Look at these emails...what do you think...this is why she is a suspect.  Certainly those emails would show motive...which would be exceptionally important for a criminal trial?  Am I that far off base to think that LE would not leak potential evidence to a grieving family member who has talked to the press before?  Any answers...anyone? 

[klaasend]

Desiree on the Today show Nov 15, 2010

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4QtcooAQgE?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4QtcooAQgE?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[klaasend]

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

[novella]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

Many years ago my husband and I had friends.  Every time we would get together the guy would fall asleep.  Didn't matter what we were doing, he would fall asleep.  Eat and sleep.  Turns out he was depressed, bored in his marriage and was escaping but was not drinking.  The couple divorced.  Now, if I were told later that he was also drinking I would never have known.  He was "passing out".

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

[Gypsy DD]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

In this video, he starts out saying her is aware of the emails.

It is a video of the full conference Kaine gave at the wall today.

I missed that...thanks. 

So sorry, I omitted the link!

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

TY Brandi, very informative.

Kaine seems to feel they will be searching SI for some time due to it's size.

[Brandi]

Desiree on the Today show Nov 15, 2010

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4QtcooAQgE?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Y4QtcooAQgE?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

...and Kaine talking at the Wall of Hope today: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx