Natalee Case Discussion #833 6/2/10 - 6/4/10

[Northern Rose]

Netherlands psychopath fled to Chile

Police warned yesterday cholita its pair of Jaguarlandia by the eventual presence in our country the Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot (23), for the murder of a Peruvian girl in a hotel in the district of Miraflores, Lima.

The victim is Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), daughter of businessman and racer Ricardo Flores.

The European psychopath (below) had come to Peru May 14, from Colombia, to participate in a poker tournament. Van Der Sloot intimate with the girl, but then killed her and left her body in his hotel room.

According to the Peruvian police, the kid he traveled overland to Tacna and Chile joined later by the city of Arica.

The Netherlands recorded a process in Aruba for a similar condor committed in 2005 when he allegedly killed and then burned his body of Natalee Holloway gringa, who accompanied him

http://www.lacuarta.cl/noticias/vuelta-al-mundo/2010/06/66-75756-9-holandes-sicopata-huyo-a-chile.shtml

[Northern Rose]

Joran (various media)

Most morning newspapers bring news that Joran van der Sloot again a murder suspect. "Another girl Joran dead" headline in De Telegraaf. A spokeswoman for the judiciary on Aruba in the AD says: "We need that guy really in charge. He is still our main suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway case.''

http://www.bnr.nl/artikel/15471462/overzicht-ochtendkranten-3-juni

[Northern Rose]

Joran v.d.Sloot is wanted for murder in Peru
June 3, 2010

 
The Chilean police are looking for with all their might to Joran van der Sloot, who is suspected of a murder in Peru. All hotels in northern Chile are controlled, so far unsuccessfully. The 22-year-old is suspected that he was last Sunday in his hotel room in Lima, a 21-year-old Peruvian has slain. Van der Sloot had already traveled to Chile.

http://www.radio1.nl/contents/16303-joran-v-d-sloot-wordt-gezocht-voor-moord-in-peru

[Puzzler]

My, oh, my...beating so severely to break the neck and cause abuse the head so badly as to cause the death.  That's truly savage.  So sorry to say that it's nothing less that you would expect from a sociopathic monster like Joran. He's a beast!

[EURobert]

Some articles from the Dutch Telegraaf this morning:

Joran paid for escape from Peru
http://tinyurl.com/2b3dpp9

Joran tries to reach his lawyer

http://tinyurl.com/2b9j3rh

Murder Stephany exactly five years after going missing Natalee

http://tinyurl.com/3xoonom

Who saw Joran last

http://tinyurl.com/2b33opk

[Sleuth]

5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD

Sooooo, that means that he paid: 174 x 5000.0 PEN to equal 870,000

therefore you would need to also multiply 1765.15 times 174. right?

That equals 307,136.10 (MONKEY SHOCK)!! DANG! Did I do that right???

Here's where I did the conversion to get the 5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD:

http://pen.cer24.com/usd/?q=5000

G'Day monkeys.

CBB - The CNN video report I heard was that he paid $635 (US Dollars)

[crazybabyborg]

5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD

Sooooo, that means that he paid: 174 x 5000.0 PEN to equal 870,000

therefore you would need to also multiply 1765.15 times 174. right?

That equals 307,136.10 (MONKEY SHOCK)!! DANG! Did I do that right???

Here's where I did the conversion to get the 5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD:

http://pen.cer24.com/usd/?q=5000

G'Day monkeys.

CBB - The CNN video report I heard was that he paid $635 (US Dollars)

LOL!! Well......... that makes more sense, Sleuth! Thank You!! There was an article posted that said he paid 870,000 "suns" and we thought it was referring to the Pervuvian currency. Thanks again! 

[Puzzler]

5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD

Sooooo, that means that he paid: 174 x 5000.0 PEN to equal 870,000

therefore you would need to also multiply 1765.15 times 174. right?

That equals 307,136.10 (MONKEY SHOCK)!! DANG! Did I do that right???

Here's where I did the conversion to get the 5000.0 PEN = 1765.15 USD:

http://pen.cer24.com/usd/?q=5000

G'Day monkeys.

CBB - The CNN video report I heard was that he paid $635 (US Dollars)

LOL!! Well......... that makes more sense, Sleuth! Thank You!! There was an article posted that said he paid 870,000 "suns" and we thought it was referring to the Pervuvian currency. Thanks again! 

In one of the other posts I read here earlier, it was said that Joran took $5,000 from Stephany.  If so, then after spending the $635 for a taxi trip across the border of Chile, Joran still has quite a bit of money.

I'm wondering if he didn't pay someone with a boat, maybe a fishing boat, to take him down the coast toward Argentina. 

He was in Chile on Monday, bu the news about the murder didn't come out until Wednesday.

Joran could travel a long distance in 2 days.

[Port Valerie]

But where can he go? Aruba may not be such a cozy place for him now that he is a grown man instead of a young high school student. Maybe back to Thailand? He is not well educated, as someone here noted earlier. In one interview, he said he has not read that many books. He will be most comfortable in the world of twenty-year-olds, casinos, gambling, alcohol, and drugs. Aren't they heading into winter down there? I think he likes warm weather and beaches. Suriname would be good for him. The Kalpoes can come and visit.

[Puzzler]

But where can he go? Aruba may not be such a cozy place for him now that he is a grown man instead of a young high school student. Maybe back to Thailand? He is not well educated, as someone here noted earlier. In one interview, he said he has not read that many books. He will be most comfortable in the world of twenty-year-olds, casinos, gambling, alcohol, and drugs. Aren't they heading into winter down there? I think he likes warm weather and beaches. Suriname would be good for him. The Kalpoes can come and visit.

Where would he go?  Great question!  I hope there's no place on the face of the earth that he can hide this time.  I do think that HE thinks he can outsmart everyone and he's going to try to do just that.

If the news articles are correct...he literally beat her to death...that's quite a rage.  He's on the run.  THis is different than last time.  Daddy is no longer in charge and Joran is no longer underage and he's even in a country where he can't communicate effectively.

Earlier reports were that he's trying to get to Argentina.  I don't have a good knowledge of South American countries or their laws, so I, personally, don't even know "why" the authorities think Joran's trying to get to Argentina.  So, I was thinking that "if" he is trying to get to Argentina, that on Monday, he was not a wanted man and could have easily hired a boat to travel toward Argentina.

I can't wait for more news on this later today.  It's moving quickly.  We now know she was beaten to death (not stabbed) (all those head wounds would be why the father saw so much blood and probably why it was thought that she was stabbed), we know there were drugs found in her car (fingerprints on car...drug wrappers?), we know the room was a mess...surely there's "hair" in there somewhere...maybe even in the blood, we heard that they're testing something found under her fingernails (I pray it's Joran's DNA), I even read in one post that they have footprints in the blood (they stated it as "Joran's" footprints...that would have to be proven; however, not too many men wear a shoe in the large size that Joran does), and they have a tourist witness that saw Joran and Stephany entering the room.

Yes!!!

[Puzzler]

But where can he go? Aruba may not be such a cozy place for him now that he is a grown man instead of a young high school student. Maybe back to Thailand? He is not well educated, as someone here noted earlier. In one interview, he said he has not read that many books. He will be most comfortable in the world of twenty-year-olds, casinos, gambling, alcohol, and drugs. Aren't they heading into winter down there? I think he likes warm weather and beaches. Suriname would be good for him. The Kalpoes can come and visit.

Another thought (perhaps a crazy thought).  After seeing the pictures of the Peru prison, any other prison would be a much better place to be.  This is a "what if".  What if Joran knows that and is trying to get to a place where he can make contact with Aruban attorneys to turn himself in to for the Natalee murder.  "What if" (a miracle happened) he slipped Interpol and made his way back to Aruba and turned himself in....I don't know foreign laws...but with the Natalee case being the first case, would Joran have to stand trial and spend his sentence in prison on that case BEFORE the Stephany case?  We know the prison in Aruba is fairly new and he would have mommy and his brothers to visit him.  Just saying...and questioning...

[Port Valerie]

He looked very out-of-place when he was in Holland, riding a little bike and wearing winter clothes. I think he will head north very fast for warm weather.

Looks like South American countries may have better border controls than we do. They seem to know who is in their country and who has left.

Yes!!!

[Port Valerie]

Interesting idea, Puzzler. If he confessed yet again, would Aruba lock him up? What would be different about another confession? He would have to produce more facts. Which would be fine.

[Port Valerie]

Just thinking:

They should watch casinos, McDonalds, and Internet cafes. He might try to hook up with another young woman who steps out of the pack. He won't hang out with other European males; more likely to go with native young men of a lower economic status. He doesn't fully understand the depth of the trouble he is in. When caught, will probably have a story about two native men who went to the hotel room with him. Maybe he will be "adopted" by an older experienced predator who will protect him as his father did.

I watch too many "Criminal Minds."

[EURobert]

"Joran awaits trial in Peru"

LONDON - If Joran van der Sloot in South America is arrested and transferred to Peru, he awaits a criminal trial in that country, probably on suspicion of murder or manslaughter. He enjoys no special legal protection as a Dutchman. Netherlands is not expected to ask his extradition, for lack of interest.

That international criminal law expert, says Geert-Jan Knoops. "I assume that Joran is indeed the main suspect and that the Peruvian judicial proceedings are pursued. In that case he is an ordinary defendant in Peru. Netherlands, most consular assistance. "
If a conviction come, Van der Sloot must serve the sentence in Peru, said Knoops. Netherlands has no treaty with Peru in which the transfer of criminal sentences is regulated, although there are discussions going on. "Joran would possibly be able to transfer the verdict questions," says Button, "but it must be irrevocable. It may take a long time before that is the case. "
The Dutch justice would Peruvian colleagues may provide information, said Knoops, for example the case of Natalee Holloway, which Van der Sloot is still a suspect. A final prosecution decision in that case by the public prosecutor in Aruba, where Holloway vanished five years ago, has still not taken.

http://tinyurl.com/33m6877

[carpe noctem]

Netherlands kills daughter blows racer

 She was only 21 years, was a university student and daughter of a businessman and former mayoral candidate known racer. In a poker game, a game that was one of her passions, she met a young Dutchman at a casino in Miraflores. They became friends, she accompanied him to the hotel where he was staying and murdered there hitting her face and head, to finally break her neck and rob the $ 5,000 that earned her an Uruguayan playing cards.

Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez died, according to the autopsy, cervical trauma, caused by blunt item. She was the daughter of Ricardo Flores Chipoco, champion of the Inca Trail in 1991.

She met the alleged murderer, identified as Andreas Petrus Van Der Joran Sloot (23), the international poker tournament being held at the casino 'Atlantic City', in the Avenues and Benavides Pardo. On the evening of Saturday 29 May saw the couple playing cards in that local.

http://www.trome.com/tonline/Html/2010-06-02/ontractualidad1092456.html

So, it was everything we knew, and quite a bit of what Pat Brown has said.

He could have stopped with just pounding her face in and breaking her neck.

...but it wasn't enough.

He had to stab her, repeatedly. Splattering blood all over the room.

Complete and total overkill.

There is sex in his violence. He actually gets off on it.

You don't have to rape for it to be present.

I woke up to Beth's voice in my head this morning.

She said: "Well, that son of a bitch!"

Today is Joran's last day in the murder business.

[caesu]

Ricardo Flores said that police found his daughter's car about 50 blocks from the hotel, and that inside, they found pills like those used in date rape cases.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/06/02/peru.murder.case/index.html

[EURobert]

Nice insight into a peruvian prison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Wuf3z7cLw

Joran will have plenty of opportunity to learn spanish there.

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/06/police_in_chile_on_joran_van_d.php
Police in Chile on Joran van der Sloot's trail
Thursday 03 June 2010
Police in Chile are said to be closing in on Dutch national Joran van der Sloot who is wanted in connection with the murder of a Peruvian woman earlier this week.

According to Peruvian media reports, Van der Sloot is hiding out in the town of Arica, after paying two brothers to take him over the border.

Dutch media reported earlier that an international arrest warrant has been issued for Van der Sloot, who is suspected of killing Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez, 21.

Hotel

However, local police chief Douglas Rodríguez has told the international media that there is still no international warrant for Van der Sloot´s arrest.

Ramirez disappeared on Friday and was found dead on Wednesday morning at a hotel in Lima.

She was last seen in the company of Van der Sloot and the hotel room where she was found was in Van der Sloot's name, according to local media reports.

Holloway

Her murder comes almost exactly five years after American teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared on the Caribbean island of Aruba. She was last seen in the company of Van der Sloot, who was 17 at the time.

International criminal law expert Geert-Jans Knoops told the Telegraaf on Thursday Van der Sloot would not get any special legal protection as a Dutch national in Peru. Nor is is likely the Netherlands ask for him to extradited to the Netherlands.
n addition, Van der Sloot would have to serve any jail term in Peru because there is no prisoner exchange treaty between the two countries,he said.

[Sharon/Tx]

There comes a time when even the mother must throw in the cards and call it.  Anita knows.  Save yourself and your sons, Anita.  Renfro, you are a piece of work.  Joran is slowly burning bridges behind him.  No one wants him in their country.  Run coward run.  I'm presuming phones are tapped and he will be caught soon.  How many more girls will he hurt?  If Aruba's government would have locked this punk up, this young lady would not have been murdered.  Bury your head in the sand Aruba, Peru won't do that.  After 5 years and one week, I feel we will see justice finally.  The world has seen what the Sporter Player really is.  Young ladies unite......... if Joran Vandersloot drugged you on your last day or took advantage of you in any way, come forward.  If anyone knows anything about this punk, please come forward.  Melody, as a mom, please............     I will pray for the Holloway's until the day I die........ someone, somehow STOP Joran.