Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[Jo-An]

ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

I think ABC might have made an error there in their translation.
If "persecuted" is used in a legal sense, then that's a wrong translation.
I have the original newspaper here and it says "opgejaagd" and I translated it with "chased".
"Opjagen" means for instance when you are hunting and you are running after your prey, chasing it, tiring it.
And I think that's what Anita meant to say.
Joran was running and other people were going after him/chasing him

[Jo-An]

ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.

[Tylergal]

And Stephany's past is going to be the reason for her murder.  I would say he is going to, with a vengeance, go after her reputation as a gambler and lesbian and after her father's reputation as a businessman/politician to win sympathy for the infamous Aruban murderer, Joran.

Let's please get away from calling Joran famous.  He is infamous and from a dysfunctional self-absorbed, irresponsible (flower child) family.

[Tylergal]

ANITA VAN DER SLOTH:

"If only he had listened to his mother. Then this never would have happened. If he hadn't been so persecuted, maybe not either. It's: 'if, if if…' But if he killed Stephany, then he will have to carry the burden of that," she said. "I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him. But he should get a fair trial. He is psychologically disturbed. That has to count for something, right?"

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-son-stephany-flores/story?id=10961460&page=2

If Anita wishes in one hand and spits in the other, I bet she will find which is filled more quickly.

What does she mean, "i will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him.."  does that mean she literally can't hug him, or she can not 'embrace'/accept what he has done, so she won't see him? 

Reading the original interview, Anita literally means that she can't embrace/hug him - because she has no feelings/love for him anymore.
I think she meant to say: I don't want to visit him in prison, because I don't want to hug/embrace him.

Jo-An, I am wondering if it means rather than "don't want to," "cannot."  After seeing Kimberly and Geraldo discuss this case, she is afraid, in fear of her safety, to go to the prison to embrace Joran, meet with him for the fear of repudiation from the citizenry of Lima and those imprisoned at Miguel Castro-Castro

[msmarple]

Jo-An, I agree with you about that translation. I inferred that she meant exactly what you say.

Good morning!

[msmarple]

Oh dear, let me quickly point out that I was referring to the "persecution" translation.

I saw Geraldo's show. I think I remember Kitty saying that she thought Anita wanted to wait until the media frenzy dies down before she goes.

[msmarple]

And Stephany's past is going to be the reason for her murder.  I would say he is going to, with a vengeance, go after her reputation as a gambler and lesbian and after her father's reputation as a businessman/politician to win sympathy for the infamous Aruban murderer, Joran.

Let's please get away from calling Joran famous.  He is infamous and from a dysfunctional self-absorbed, irresponsible (flower child) family.

I would also suggest "notorious" but would not want Joran remotely associated with Cary Grant or Ingrid Bergman.

[Jo-An]

About the embrace-bit...
The original says:

"Ik zal hem niet opzoeken in zijn cel, ik kan hem niet omarmen."

Literally that says:

"I will not visit (or look him up) him in his cell, I can not embrace him."

The Dutch word "zal" means more or less "will not" in the sense of "now and in the future".
So again, I think she's done with him.
That's kind of what she meant when she said: I have to let him go.


I have to run now! Going to a birthday party. Be back later.

[msmarple]

As Anna pointed out to silly me a few pages back, adult bodies do get put in suitcases.

Pearla Louis, 52 - found in a suitcase in San Francisco bay last month. A man named Lee Bell, with whom she had a relationship (but who abused her) has been arrested.

Jasmine Fiore – a model and reality show star, found in a suitcase outside a hotel near San Diego. We all remember this one - they tracked her husband, Ryan Jenkins, who ultimately committed suicide in a motel in British Columbia.

These must be tiny people and big suitcases.

[Mary Ann]

This  translation "language" is driving me nuts!!! I don't care what happens to Joran. The only thing that matters is that Natalee's body comes home so she can have a proper burial. That is all.

[jjayinthemorning]

This  translation "language" is driving me nuts!!! I don't care what happens to Joran. The only thing that matters is that Natalee's body comes home so she can have a proper burial. That is all.

Yep. All this attention is just what a sociopath thrives on. He's sucking everyone into his drama. The media is feeding him.
The important thing is to bury the dead properly, to bring Natalee home.
 

[Bearlyhere]

Thanks to Jo-An and Buckeye for posting anita's interview....going to have to reread it a couple more times

Yes, thank you.

CBB, I saw your note about the avis.  Thanks for all you do to brighten up my character.

[Sharon/Tx]

Good morning and Happy Father's Day! \_/? coffee and poptarts [:::] for everyone! Hugs and thanks for everything you do Mods!

[Blonde]

This is the pond or dump behind the van der Sloot house.

Was this pond ever checked?

Blonde if no one else has answered. I think this is the pond that Tim and his people tried to search, but it was too full of trash and the people watching them threw rocks at them.

If this is the one I am thinking of it was Dutch media that was throwing rocks at them.  I remember thinking WTH? 

Thank You I though I was  invisible. Hmmm I think this would be a wonderful place to search.

[Bearlyhere]

Part one of the interview - the frontpage of De Telegraaf

Interview with Anita van der Sloot - June 19th 2010




Joran's mother breaks silence
"[/size]My son is sick in his head"

ORANJESTAD (Aruba) - Saturday
by special reporters Johan van den Heuvel en Bert Huisjes

The Mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, breaks the silence after many years. She says her son got into heavy psychological trouble.
Anita van der Sloot tells her story today exclusively in De Telegraaf. She said yes to a meeting with reporters, because she finds the image of Joran as "a monster" doesn't tell the whole story.
She doesn't rule out that he migt have killed Stephany Flores. Shortly before her death and during his flee she was in contact with Joran, and he sounded very paranoid. He felt like he was being "followed and watched".
According to her Joran was in heavy psychological distress after his father died. She says he blamed himself for his early death.

In the interview with De Telegraaf she says that Joran left for Peru, to escape from being admitted to a closed section of a psychiatric clinic.
"He had agreed to being admitted. But two days before he was supposed to leave for the Netherlands, he left the house."
The only thing she found, was a note that she shouldn't worry.
The director of Castro Castro yesterday tried to convince Joran van der Sloot to have an interview with CNN about the "excellent conditions in his cell" and him being treated well.
When Joran said no, he was taken out of his cell and reporters were given access to his cell. They were allowed to take pictures and shoot videos. The director indicated that Joran has a real bed in his cell with a mattress, running water, a towel and a bible to read from. His toilet is a hole in the ground.
Van der Sloot for now has the privilege of the heavily guarded cell, close to the director's office. This is a precaution, so that no one can cause him any harm.
Monday he has a court appearance.

Thanks Jo-An.
Anita was in contact with Joran "during his flee" - good ole behind the scenes Anita. Still trying to save her son from the consequences of his actions.
She was busy advising her son during his escape to Chile. Sick in the head, the new talking point we shall hear over and over and over. 
If, and that's a big if, Joran was to check into a closed section of a clinic prior to leaving Aruba, it was to ameliorate his problems with extortion/fraud.  Sick in the head was used by a cousin in the Netherlands,
Joran said he was sick in the head when examined by a doctor in Castro, Castro.  We thought maybe it translated to headache. 
Anita has put all on notice.  Sick in the head - plan to hear it often.

A cold blooded sociopath/predator who takes what he wants when he wants it, is too sensitive a term for Anita.  It leaves the sporter accountable.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany. 

Wow!  Anita has the same spooky eyes as her son.

[Jo-An]

http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice/article/joran-van-der-sloot-open-jail

Joran van der Sloot to open in jail

Published on : 20 June 2010 - 12:08pm | By Pablo Gámez    (RNW)

The case against Dutch murder suspect Joran van der Sloot gets underway on Monday, he will hear the charges against him during a formal opening in the Miguel Castro Castro prison in Peru where he is being held.

The charges will be read out against the Dutchman by Judge Carlos Morales.

The arraignment will take place behind closed doors. In legal terms, what follows is the pre-trial investigation. Van der Sloot's detention can be extended up to twelve months.

During the investigation, the authorities will try to clarify the facts and determine any guilt. Police sources earlier reported that van der Sloot had confessed to the murder of 21-yearold Stephany Flores.

Student Flores was seen on CCTV entering van der Sloot's hotel room after the two had been at a poker tournament - the next day she was found dead and in the meantime van der Sloot had fled to Chile. He was handed back over to the Peruvian authorities after giving himself up to police.

Lawyers for van der Sloot have remained silent but question marks are said to have been raised about the confession.

If declared guilty, Van der Sloot faces a minimum of 15 years imprisonment.

In an exclusive interview with Radio Netherlands Worldwide, Edward Álvarez, lawyer of the Flores family, insists that despite concerns that Joran van der Sloot will get a fair trial in Peru:

"Peru is a democracy and therefore it has an unconditional respect for fundamental rights, among which the judiciary, and the institutions of the penal system guarantee that Joran van der Sloot's will get a fair trial. The principle of the assumption of innocence cannot be questioned until there is a solid and definite judgement."

The way in which Joran van der Sloot was put on display for the national and international press after his arrest provoked criticism in The Netherlands, suggesting that Van der Sloot "had already been condemned by the media."

Álvarez recognises that "there has been mass media attention. This happens frequently in the Peruvian legal system but we cannot, in any case, doubt the assumption of Joran van der Sloot's innocence. Neither can it be presented in a situation that affects his human dignity."

The organisation Prison Law, which supports prisoners worldwide, is one of the bodies that has raised concerns. Spokeswoman Rachel Imamkhan says he has little trust in the Peruvian justice system.

"My experience is that there is little chance of a fair trial in that country. Peru is a party to international treaties but in practice you see little of that."

What may help, according to Imamkhan is the international attention for the case

Evidence
Judge Morales Córdova will have at his disposal the results of psychological and psychiatric tests of Joran van der Sloot, as well as the autopsy report and expert reports in the preliminary investigation.

But Álvarez says there are still gaps:

"There are still many things to finish in the pre-trial investigation. One of the primary things is the reading of the contents of Joran van der Sloot's laptop. We do not know yet what information it contains. We also need to investigate the record of telephone calls that Stephany Flores received. We know that she received calls from Joran during the days before her death. There are people at the casino that were aware of Joran van der Sloot's presence: whether he won money and whether it is true if he entered the place with so much money."

The hard disc of Van der Sloot's computer could also contain information about the murder of US citizen Nathalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005. Van der Sloot remains a suspect in that unresolved case.

Aruba and the US have already asked Peru about the kind of information that the laptop contains.

Extradition
Lawyer Álvarez insists that Joran van der Sloot "will definitely not be extradited. Peru does not have an agreement with the Netherlands, which makes this scenario impossible. Van der Sloot will have to serve his sentence in Peru."

RNW sources who wish to remain anonymous say that Joran van der Sloot's mother is trying to manage her son's extradition to the Netherlands.

[Ono]

Anita knows, Paulus knew, Valentijn knows, Sabastian knows and Joran knows he killed Natalee and Stephany.   Anita can live in denial for the rest of her life but deep down she knows.

I totally agree......... Anita knows! I'm not sure that she knew he murdered Natalee from day one, but at some point she came to know.

I think she always knew, deep down, that he was capable of murder.

I think so too and I do not believe he is crazy--she just wants everyone to think it,imo.

[sharon]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place

IIRC -- one of the kalpoes (Deepak, I think) made the comment 'I never should have left him alone with the girl'

Anyone remember that (or have that quote saved?)

Happy Father's Day to all the daddy monkeys.

We are so much closer to Justice for Natalee, Justice for Stephany is on it's way.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY

[sharon]

@klaasend

Thank you very much, Klaasend.
I myself have no back up.

I probably have 80% of them saved.

But I thought klaas had them saved in a thread here.

I'm out for the day -- will check later and will post what I have (if not already here)

Buckeye probably has many saved as well -- I know she brought many over from Scrux

[Buckeye]

So as of June 4th 2005, the word was they took Natalee up to the LIGHTHOUSE (right near the rocks) and had sex with her. 

I still say that is what they did.  They raped Natalee or tried to and she ran.  Joran flew into a rage and killed her near the rocks.  What he/they did with her body after I don't know but I believe that rock area was a crime scene.

Some of Kalpoe testimony seems to lead to that conclusion as well and was it not around June 10 that the wild goose chase to the Light house after a confession soon withdrawn by a madman and his parents took place

IIRC -- one of the kalpoes (Deepak, I think) made the comment 'I never should have left him alone with the girl'

Anyone remember that (or have that quote saved?)

Happy Father's Day to all the daddy monkeys.

We are so much closer to Justice for Natalee, Justice for Stephany is on it's way.

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE & STEPHANY

One source is People Magazine.  I know we probably have the primary source.  It was Deepak talking to John.:

But Aruban police did not detain Joran or his friends; instead, on June 5, they arrested Mickey John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, two former hotel security guards described to them by the three young men. John and Jones were held for eight days before being released. "I was trying to clear my name, but they wouldn't listen because of what those boys said about us," says John, who was still in jail when Joran and his friends were arrested June 9. Deepak Kalpoe was given the cell next to him, but since they could not see each other, "he didn't know I was one of the guards he had lied about," says John. John claims Kalpoe told him he made up the story about dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn where she was staying. Instead, he and his brother dropped Joran and Natalee off near a different hotel, the Marriott, before going home. Around 3 a.m. that night, Kalpoe got a text message from Joran "saying that they needed to talk," says John. Joran never called him, but still Kalpoe "was very upset," claims John. "He said he should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy." [/b]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148066,00.html