Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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Ok...were did everyone go?  :lol:

YooHoo, where is everyone?

Its dark in here.  anyone home?  :shock:

Glad to see you; I was hearing echo of myself.  :lol:

oh good!  I was afraid I was being led astray and left with no food  :cry:

Something interesting from Riehl

Joran v d Sloot and the Plate Glass Window
While there is currently no evidence to suggest that Joran v d Sloot threw a boy through a plate glass window, as some news reports have claimed, a reliable source has confirmed an incident on January 23 of this year which may have led to the rumor.


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/joran_v_d_sloot_1.html

I did read that last night.  Again, I found it interesting that it was "swept under the rug" by LE

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but did anyone hear Tim Miller (Equusearch) say that if the team located a body, they would keep it quiet so as not to inflame the press? I think he made this statement last night on Fox.

Fresh board. May I offer some outside news that may guide some discussion. As you can tell by my NIC I think there was too long a wait to get somebody out to find this young woman. My pet theory is a date rape drug experiment gone bad. To those that think this idea is too far out, I offer this link showing how some individual in the San Francisco bay area bought and had delivered 50,000 doses by of the top date rape drug by mail

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/27/BAghb27.DTL

for personal use? I don't think so. These are weird times. Tell your kids to watch their drinks.

He said if he found something he didnt want their cameras all over it.

As far as "juice" is concerned, what are you implying? That the Holloways are some privileged class, with access that the rest of us don't have? Please be open about it, if that is what you are implying. And tell us why we should turn our backs on them for that. But the reality is that ANY voter can appeal to a congressman or senator, on a personal matter like this. That's what our elected representatives are for. To represent their constituents. Some may choose to call it a sinister conspiracy. Others just call it democracy. And, as far as "juice' is concerned, let's make it clear that the Holloways are NOT just the "average citizens." They have a missing daughter in a foreign land, where the headlines are of a Conspiracy Blown Out of Proportion.

WTH?  Is the theory the Twitty's had a PR machine already in place, just waiting on marching orders. Crap. I think the theory is just that.

Yes, something to that affect.  I believe it contain some like "unless we have a positive ID."  I do think that this would be standard procedure for such a group.  They are not about sensationalizing the situation at the expense of family members.

Professor, did you read that article, or just the headline?

   Thank you. There was also a report that some Dutch photographers had been throwing things in the water and yelling at the searchers.

Professor;
I answered you on the other thread, but then it closed.
My last statement was along these lines.
I did not mean to imply conspiracy. As to not make this an issue, I humbly retract my statement and any implications it caused.
Thanks

after reading the cryptic messages that were left last night .. about following the music...
this really struck me as strange..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160789,00.html

I think people might be visiting the SM's?

I would say your theory is the most popular theory, if this site is any indicator.

I could not agree more with you.  I don't know of a single politician in Congress that doesn't make their phone numbers and e-mail address available for constituants.  Most even have store fronts and staff in their home districts to accomodate walk-ins.

Hey Nancy...they're talking about yah.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160844,00.html

Just for the record--the Jaime Justice who was quoted in the WVTM channel 13 (Birmingham) interview is a boy. The aricle kept refering to him as "she".

I certainly hope that the Twittys have some PR people helping them out, because they are walking a thin line. On the one hand, they need to keep the heat on, or NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN, and on the other hand they have to maintain what little cooperation they are getting from the Aruban government. I do believe that PR people are going over every statement of Beth Twitty with a fine toothed comb, before every interview, in order to accomplish the task at hand.

Why would they throw things in the water and yell at the searchers?  Do they not want anything to be found or what?

God, I hope not.... the objective is to find Natalee, not to act like Dutch children.

It does seem to be a common practice in Aruba to "sweep under the rug by LE" especially if the incident might affect the tourist. Several months ago an employee of a car rental agency was killed while at work, first indication was murder. However, the next day the LE said the case was closed, that it was suicide. Of course tourists are the main customers of a car rental agency so we certainly would not want to frighten them.  The family to this day do not believe it was suicide. I read this in an Aruban newspaper at the time, but Google can't find it now.

I saw that too and was baffled. Why on earth would someone do that? Maybe they were trying to get diver to turn around so they could get a good photo for newspaper, but talk about the means not justifying the ends. Dumb.

Some locals were hindering search efforts.  Not sure what the extent of it is, but it sure makes you wonder Hopefully these reports are not representative of how the island thinks about this case.

Did you just hear that?  The chief of police is godfather to one of the suspects!!!!

I've never heard that before!!

Just heard them on Fox saying Chief of Police is Joran's godfather.

I think someone mentioned that last night.

My fiance is a detective, and now..he finally comments. He says, Did you hear that? The chief of police is godfather...oh, that's bad.
Thanks, honey, been trying to get you more involved. LOL
Trying to get him in Monkey arena.

Yeah...that's me GIRL DETECTIVE!!!  And don't you forget it!

LOL

If its the press they were probably trying to get into the water for pictures and Im sure someone told them to back off, and I can imagine choice words may have been exchanged by the searchers and the media in the water. Still seems kinda gross. I really hope that if and when she is found that the press doesnt try to take pictures of her body. That would be in very bad taste.

This is starting to STINK to high heavens!!  Why hasn't anyone reported that before? That's HUGE!!!

I had heard that about the Godfather business. It was said somewhere that the LE?Godfather was quoted as saying " I cannot do this to my bestfriend's son"! anyone else remember that?

I remember that too, at the beginning he said it.

It was on a report done by Geraldo.

I'm going to write my friend who is down there covering this story and ask about this concering the chief of police.

Yikes.

yeah, but didnt realize that you were so "up there". 75 years old..sheesh..

Earlier Geraldo said, "I have an impeccable source, and impeccable source. . . " And we laughed him off.

Couldn't you just see the uproar here if it had been stated that the prosecutor for the Gotti case was godfather to Sammy the bull.  :shock:
Same magnitude, IMHO

how is Geraldo's record on this case? how many has he gotten right vs wrong??? Anyone know?

yea! but the person who sent the email, had one thing wrong. They never played "Another One Bites The Dust" we were expecting it however after hearing Stayin Alive and Jailhouse Rock!  Yes, but then SM is the goto board and blog for this case, so I would think Greta or one of her people would be following the board. I think the email she got from that Alice in Montana using the "dumb" word and throwing around blame everywhere but where it should be was really sick.

Yeah, I'm a cranky ol' sleuth, BUT I'm not that old!!!  LOL

Not really sure, alot of people tend to not take Geraldo seriously. Geraldo mentioned the impecable source saying the "how could I do this to my best friends son?" and I think he also said something about the porno? Anyone ever find out anything about the alledged porno?

From what I understand it was the Dutch media who only recently arrived on the island in force.

This is what I think... Holland should send all their inpartial judges and investigators and make a beeline to Aruba. Clean house completely for this case and lets see what comes out.

He only ONCE claimed to have "an impeccable source." So, I guess on impeccable sources he's one-for-one.

Monkey business is not good business. If they don't get this straightened out, the corruption and disregard for Natalee's life will boil over into a possible boycott of Aruba. I know some of my beach buddies aren't going. They're going to Florida instead. (ummm, hurricanes? sharks?) But okay. Guess they would rather deal with *our* government than what we're seeing.

At least our photographers don't throw objects in the water during a rescue.  Not that I know of!

The news about the sliding glass door and about the police commisioner's relationship with the van der Sloot family was reported a couple weeks ago by Geraldo.  Some people discounted the report because it was Geraldo reporting it, however, it looks like he was on to something.

What he said was, "I have an impeccable source, but, this is hearsay"...what a jerk.  And he was reporting that Joran was in a porn video that was being sold all over the island!!!  Which has to be BS because the tv tabloid media would have grabbed this fast...what a coup that would be as a news story.  I don't trust Geraldo...however, now that Greta is on the case and she is rather reliable...I think it holds him to a higher standard.

Yes, Loren, I believe it was Geraldo who reported that. And the plot thickens! Do your remember that earlier report that one of the suspect's supposedly said "something bad happened" and that there was a supposed confession and that Joran taking them to the body? Soon right after the LE retracted and denied anything had been said.

Well, how do we know that, that really did happen and that he did lead them to the body, and the officials, took the body and put it into the ocean just to save face? With reports like people throwing things by the divers and doing childish things while there are searches going on, it makes me think twice about the integrity of the investigation and the integrity of the Aruban government.

I wonder if Geraldo and I have the same "impeccable source?" My source told me almost the same exact words a couple of weeks ago.

Professor, I made my post in response to a post on another board which insinuated the Twitty's were prepared for something like this to happen.  It was a ridiculous statement made by that poster in my opinion.
You are right, they needed and NEED a PR machine, I just took offense to the way it was stated in that post.

Tigerlily-

Your scenario has crossed my mind more than once.

Of course we heard it.  Everyone just discounted it because it came from a report by Geraldo.

I guess when your godfather is the police commisioner you can have a lot of things swept under the rug.
His own mother told GVS about an incident with as she said "another boy" that was resolved when she spoke with the parent. I wonder what that incident was.
This kid, joran, has probably gotten away with alot of things, as most of us suspect. Is it possible he is enabled to engage in bad behavior not only by his parents, but by his godfather as well?

I wouldn't assume it's true yet.  The detective from Chicago who said it may have heard it on the same report.  Seems the Twitty's would be all over this one...even if they didn't say it publicly themselves...they would get reporters to do it.

KackyLacky;
If you're referencing a statement I made in the last thread before it closed, I want you to know that after hearing everyone's response to my statement, I went and reread it; I was off-base in what I was implying, although that was not my intention. Because of my bad wording of my opinion, and because of valid rebuttal and concerns it caused, I officially and most genuinely retract my statement. It does not accurately convey my feelings. I retract the entire thing, and do not want to generate conspiracy dialogue. I do not believe there is a conspiracy on the part of NH family. But the Aruban investigation, that's a different story.  :arrow:  :evil: No retraction concerning them  :evil:

They might be afraid of what they find.

Time for Holland to clean house in Aruba. Bring in new judges and detectives and a brand new Chief of Police. The economy of Holland is riding on it as well. Do they have the economy to support all the unemployed that will hit Holland's shore from Aruba when Americans boycott?

How old is the police chief? (I haven't seen any pictures of him)

Where was J born? I thought it was a town that started with an A in Holland.

Who is this person:http://members.lycos.nl/vanderstraaten/

The Twitty's are walking a thin line. On the one hand, they need to keep the pressure on the Aruban authorities. And, on the other hand, they don't want to alienate those authorities. So I suspect that that is why they never brought this up. I think it was a smart move on their part to remain silent on this point, or they would not have even gotten THIS MUCH cooperation.

It is so easy to understand Beth, Jug, Dave and his wife's anger! :evil: I would be screaming! I don't know how they keep from going totally ballistic. The entire family always maintains and acts cool, but you can see the rage one layer under, just a breath away. Now I really understand the rage. No matter which way they turn, there seems to be some questionable activity. And, because they are not from the island, they are having to learn the power structure the hard way. This is so sad for them.

Hi all... :)

Still nothing new on the search?

I believe the Police Comissioner's name is Jan Van Strantan if my notes are correct.


edited1 x for spelling

Please remember when making these statements that the majority of Arubans are hardworking people and that a lot of money that goes down to that island makes it way back to the US via the US owned businesses down there.  

I do agree that if the justice system down there is flawed or corrupt then the people of Aruba have an obligation to fix it.

Seriously!  The US would have cracked this case.or at least gotten something from thse kids..like it was said on greta last night with the holloways..this is rediculous that authorities over there cant crack a 17 year old kid.......COME ON!!!!!!!!  Three weeks......... No solid leads..........two people released! Looks like we are back where we started (again, like beth holloway stated) i feel sooo bad for them!  If authorities had all these different things they could do to try to solve this, you would think they would, but they keep turning down help from others... Just because something is not admissable in court does not mean i cant be helpful!! I guess the next appearnce Joran will be makin in court is next week and if judge decides to hold him it will be for 60 days!  People on the interview last night seem to think that since these kids have held out so long...........it may not be good news next week!

Nope. I don't buy it.  I've covered big media stories like this....believe me, this kind of tidbit is the stuff these stories are made of.  Even if the family   isn't willing to say this....there is NO chance in hell one of the reporters there wouldn't report it...and report it...and report it!!!  Nothing would hold them back. Also, remember the competition between reporters, even within the same news organization is huge.  This would not be hush..hush...

Jan van der Stratten (sp?)

Agreed, and if these are paperazzi, they can be pretty rude and inconsiderate. On the other hand, Riehl wrote "additional reports suggest some members of search team may have also been more confrontational than necessary" so maybe they'd been provoked. Of course, the press has a job to do, too.

fwiw, as a rule Dutch media do not show or print photos of dead crime victims (there have been a few exceptions involving important Dutch people who had been assassinated, but those photos had been taken from a distance and not in a disrespectful manner).

The Fox reporter now says "he's related to the suspect"....they can't even get that right!!! A "godfather" is not a blood relative.  Sheesh.

Nancy,
I think Beth kind of did last pm. She actually did it twice while talking to GVS. She was commenting on the support network her family had. Then she says something to the effect " what kind of support system does a 17 yr boy have"---basically she was saying he had some kind of something that was helping him, and she was very upset about it while saying that vague comment. Then this am I hear the godfather news, and knew in my heart immediately this was what she was talking about. joran has a strong support network in the police commisioner.

Heavyheart-

My arguement is a pragmatic one for Holland. They should send an all new band of LE including judges, to present a picture of propriety in all things legal on the island. Otherwise the backlash of the Dutch Antilles losing their American tourist market would be devistating to them as well as the Antilles.

Unfortunately, the boys will probably be released before too long

Could be, but I didn't take her comment in that way.

Can't wait to see Greta tonight. I've noticed when she seems a little quiet during the day, she has bombshells at night. Anybody else notice that?

Paula, are you talking about the PR machine thing? If so, no I was not talking about you, my friend. I was talking about the post on websleuths. Is this what you mean? :?

Well, gosh, Nancy. I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see. Either it's true, or it's not true. That seems like the simplest way to handle it. But Fox already had the edge over its competitors, so it didn't really have to push the issue to remain in the #1 slot.

Not many people will be boycotting Aruba. I am going next month.

Please, How about a little less of the crazy stories, and a little more pressure on your elected officials, the FBI and the US State Department. Send them your concerns that we want this case solved, for Natalee and her family.

president@whitehouse.gov
vice.president@whitehouse.gov
http://contact-us.state.gov/

Find your local officials via the internet. All have either web mail or email address.

All elected officials, the State Dept, the FBI, etc.. have phone numbers and faxes. Call them and fax a letter as well. Let's put these keystrokes to some effective use.


Also, Don t bore us with biased or racial statements on this case. It's about finding Natalee and helping her family. It's about time the masses cared about something and grouped together. What we are doing is a positive thing. If you think you have a case that needs publicity, take up the cause and get working on it!

Otherwise, please pitch in and press your government for a credible solution. That includes those in Aruba and the Netherlands!

icey

Marie-

I'm sure that there are many that would not but just as many that would. Even at those numbers, the Antilles are in trouble.

I really hope not. :x  They need to stay the full 116 days if nothing develops before then. Are there any laws that could extend the length or if new evidence is introduced could the 116 begin again? Of course we want Natalee to be found alive, I am just curious if any1 knows if the 116 could be extended? :?:

Yea its cheap to go there, you only need a one way ticket.

Thanks for 'my friend.'
I made an inflammatory statement regarding something said by NH's parents last night.
I caused a small storm.
I reread my statement, and found the small storm was justified; I then retracted my statement.
I was wrong, and I thought maybe you were referring to that statement, and I wanted you to know I had said I was wrong.

Mornin' guys..so, its another wild ride on the monkey coaster today, huh?Any new news from equuesearch? And Lord God Almighty..NOT the godfather....I knew that Someone would have to be closer to this situation than what we were hearing....Something is definately stinking right about now...
Arubagirl did say last night, however, than the comish would turn his own wife in if he had to...So, maybe she can shed some light for us on this godfather thing...

IMHO, boycotting Aruba only hurts the people that have been so helpful to the family.  Every interview I hear from them they are praising the "people" of Aruba and how wonderful and helpful they have been.  Think about it, when a financial hardship hits the US, who pays for that?  Government employees?  LE?  No, it's you and I.  We lose our jobs.  I certainly wouldn't want all of the wonderful people that have helped the family to be hurt by this.

     That's what I'd heard. I'd also heard that the Dutch reporters were jumping in the water.

Professor,

Our discussion on this topic had nothing to do with Fox ratings.  It has to do with a possibly important fact in the case.

There are rare cases when the 116 days have been extended.  Not sure what the specifics of this would entail, but its possible.  Its also possible to convict there without a body, but evidence must be strong.

In the US i would never think they would be released...but the way this case is goin..they will be released...one of the people interviewed last night said that they dont think there will be a case, or any charges brought about, without a body...so the wya these kids are holdin up............NOT LOOKIN GOOD

Well said, you make a good point.  Just don't want to hear people calling for boycotts.  I agree that in a small comunity like this (LE and judicial system), objectivity is going to be hard to portray.  For the sake of the integrity of the system, what you say should have been done in the first week.

Absolutely, as I said on the other thread to Arubagirl and any other poster from Aruba, my frustration is not in any way,shape or form directed towards the Aruban people. From everything I see, they care about Natalee and her family. Her family says the people are very supportive of their search for Natalee. I am now officially frustrated with the Aruban LE. You are right it is a distinction that definitely needs to be made. I still am planning a vacation there for later in the year. It seems to be a beautiful place.

Ouch!

I may be in information overload,,but I seem to remember in the first few days that someone did step down and someone else was going to take over,,,,,Does anybody else remember this?  This was after the comment was made about PVDS being best friend.

I would check, but have no idea where to start....

LOL, gotta have some dark humor for comic relief once in awhile!!!

Heavyheart-
I agree it should have been done in the begining. But not all is lost. If Holland does this now there is still time to keep the trust of the American tourist intact.

I cannot believe we would actually issue a warning or a boycott of Aruba - come on have people not disappeared, or been murdered or fowl play happened all over the world to Americans - come on - there have to be more unsolved crimes to Americans than just this one island nation - it is very sad that this happened but to get this much media focus on one missing person is riduculous - how many people go missing in the States each year - how many are found - how many crimes go unsolved - this is just one - and I think the whole thing while mystifying is totally out of proportion!!

But, in the US they or some of them may not have been taken in!!  We have a much higher standard for holding anyone!!!  They also can have lawyers present.

Is Joran's godfather by any chance lefthanded?   no I am not joking. :?

Medley-

I do not disagree with your logic but the fact is that the Genie is out of the bottle here and this story is all over the media market in the states and is even hitting here in Europe.

Boycotting would only bring hardship on the innocent residents of Aruba. It's a beautiful island and I love the people over there.

On and off...i think that the arubans are doing everything they can, but the laws over there are preventing a well organized and accurate investigation......By no means am i puttin down aruba........but there is a time that they need to go that extra length to get this solved and accept some help!

Fox News........sources imply brothers are knee deep in this. Paulus questioned gave statement, but nothing concrete to hold him further and no strong evidence to contridict his statement. Contact said word on ground Joran and Father seeem saavy and not intimidated by process.

I think alot of the anger is the fact that the Aruban LE have seemed to have totally screwed up the investigation.  It seems as if this should be a solvable case, but at every juncture, LE has dropped the ball.  Yes, more eyes are on them than ever, but that should improve their job performance.  They have come off looking like the keystone cops.

Deputy Chief of Police is Gerald Dompig.
The title was not "Police Commisioner."

Marie-

Yes, what you say is true. But Holland can and should rectify this situation and prevent the appearence of nepotism in LE. The immigration to Holland by Arubans out of work will be the result otherwise. The thing has snowballed into this.

No, Your statement appeared to have everything to do with ratings. What you seemed to say was (paraphrased), I don't know why Fox didn't jump on this to scoop the competition, or why the competition didn't jump on this to scoop Fox. The apparent implication being that since this revelation (van der Straten) would have been so good for ratings, and since nobody jumped on it, it must not be true.

Am I missing something here?

<<the police commisioner's relationship with the van der Sloot family was reported a couple weeks ago by Geraldo.>>


Geraldo's original report mentioned chief investigator.  Today's report mentioned the chief of police.  Seems like we're talking about two different people high up in the LE food chain with VDS connections.

Well folks when Americans travel anywhere out of the country they have to take the good with the bad - you cannot expect the comforts and protection of home when you go to other countries - it does not matter where you go - these kids went there for the fun, sun, drinking under age 18 and gambling - and now someone's family is having to deal with the Aruban justice system - people will have to think now before they travel. I am not saying I do not feel bad for the Holloways however I do not think this is  a matter for our STATE DEPT!!

Its the fact that FROM THE BEGINNING the investigation has be "tampered with" and not well organized....that is why people are frustrated, angry, etc............ IF it didnt take a week to take the boys in...and things were handled correctly, and it just hasnt gone well, that is one thing. There is NO excuse for the way this all has gone..that is why people are angry. I think everyone can admit that, yes, there is a lot of publicity on this case, which puts a lot of pressure on the govt, to have every move be watched.......and if it wasnt for her parents refusin to settle for a "question mark" then it would have been forgotten already!

Well... at least after 3+ weeks I can see some sanity in the way to solve the mistery. :wink:

Pressure is one thing a boycott is another. This case is definetly not going away. Beth said today she is leaving the light on and that is what we should do. She also said when she visited the vds home pvds started to sweat so profusley it had to be wiped up with towel. How can he sleep with this knowledge. Pressure and time will solve this case not a boycott or us govt. intervention.

Well said....couldn't agree more.

Medley-Then why are there American Embassies? That feature of the American Gov is part of the State Dept...

There wouldn't be a travel alert for something like this.  It's a big story for us...but, in the big scheme of things it's not.  IF this were a situation where an American was held under questionable circumstances, and all kinds of diplomatic options had been used OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.  That would be different.

How long has Milosovic (sp) been on trial in the Hauge in the Netherlands (Holland)? Three years or better and no resolution yet? I don't think the Holland justice system would add anything to this case to bring a quicker resolution based on their latest performance over there.

mmmmmmmm wonder if LE can lie/trick suspects in Aruba like can be done here. Note---I am not saying I think our LE having that ability is wrong---I would bet it has solved a lot more cases than we can ever imagine.
If they can use this tactic, they could pick up daddy VDS again and then  tell joran his dad confessed to hurting Natalee and see what he does/says, or vice versa. I think it would very interesting. If that didn't work, they could always say a "peripheral" witness saw something. Also, tell the sateesh that deepak admitted to hurting her, and see what you get. Especially if,as Katherine at Fox reports, her sources say the bros kalpoe are "knee-deep" involved in the case.
That said she really didn't have any breaking news that we did not know. I absolutely hate it when Fox plays that music and acts like old news is new news.

No, No, No...what I said was if this fact were true it would've been reported over and over and over.  That hasn't happened.  Which leads me to believe it's Geraldo BS.

Agreed.
And I hate that music too, it's like sounding tornado alarm over and over to practice alert. Makes my heart pound.

I kindly request that we move off the boycott topic.  Talking about economic impact would be a good discussion but can be held in its own topic.

I have to agree. When you travel outside the country its a risk you take. If the the state dept gets involved I can only imagine the outcry of other missing childrens mothers in our own country. Alot of people go missing here in this country and are never found.

Edmond of Top 95.1 commenting on the Nat. dissapearance, casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.    He feels the amount of focus of the Arubian LE is too focused on the 2 suspect.  He reports that the tips of 2 men taking Natalee by force is not being followed up?  Reports of Hotel employee is also confirming this but the LE is not following up.  The theory of possible a second party sequestering Nat is possible. Another talker is mentioned perhaps a tag team of a second may have taken Nat.  Counter argument said that he can't believe a 17 yr would have enough life experience to have a well thoughout crime.  He does not believe Joran has the character to pull it off.

Was it the FBI  ????  in the very start of this said that the investigation was totally in the wrong  "realm "

I'm curious about what is your "end of episod" if after that you cannot obtain any confession.
What you do next? Are they innocent or should "we" implement another "tactic" to bring the result "we" want?

Yes, there are American embassies in all major cities, but an official State Department Travel Advisory is not something to be taken lightly. To use it as a method of punishment undermine its credibility with travelers. And the primary purpose of the Travel Advisory is to WARN tourists about specific EMERGING THREATS to their safety.

I took a little break from here-so it may have been mentioned already, but check these post out--do u find this strange?

E-mail No. 5

Greta,
You have done an outstanding job reporting from Aruba. The music coming from the dance floor is distracting. Last night during your report we heard: Staying Alive, Jailhouse Rock and Another One Bites the Dust. How can you maintain a straight face? Tell your producer to put you in a more suitable area.
Keep up the good work,
Teri Beever
GA

Joran is almost 18 years old.  

The van der Sloots have not been living in Aruba nearly that long.

Unless customs are different there, a child's godparents are named at birth.

Just how long do Paulus and the police commissioner know one another?

Is the police commissioner also Dutch?

Did they first become best friends in Holland, where Joran was born?

Edmond keeps thinking the 2 strangers may have contacted the Chaparone, perhaps the drug dealers near Holiday Inn.  He states that strange occurences was going on near HI, but police is not following leads.  His counter associate, is asking what happened afterwards, their motives etc. .. He feels there is a probably some kinda of fallacy that may have come out already.  What if Joran does not know anymore, he mentioned a girl being hysterics.. but Ed says that Hotel workers say that a girl was taken away.  He states people that knows need to take courage to give tips.

Bye, Everyone. Got to do some work, but be back later.
Take care, All

I'm sure LE has that capability but you have to walk a fine line when doing so.  Only ask questions you know the answers to.

For example: you don't want to bring in father Sloot and tell the son that the father admitted hurting Natalee if Joran knows for a fact that it was he alone or he and the Kalpoe brothers.  Joran will see through this immediately and not talk.  

What you are looking for from Joran, is complicity creap.  You have got him admitting that he was with Natalee alone that night, now you want him to admit that something happened...then something bad...then say he did hurt her...and so on and so forth until he admits that he did in fact kill her.  

God I hated typing that...I so hope she is alive.  From a LE point of view that is what they are looking for though.

Just stopping in for lunch here and in checking the news quick I haven't seen any new develpements.  Anything major anyone would care to share?

I think there have been varying stories of these very things happening on this board.  From what I can remember, they have been reported by Top 95.1 in the past.   If there is any validity to these stories, what can possibly be done to get LE to investigate this?  Do the Holloways know about these stories?  It's very frustrating that LE does not seem to want to investigate any of these other stories, or at least not that we know about.  WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THIS?  Does anyone have any ideas????  Maybe notify the FBI??  Does anyone know if there is now a PI working for the Holloways as we heard reported a few days ago?

I just think some other avenues need to be explored at this point!

see this is the problem. It is KNOWN FOR A FACT that Natalee got in that car. There would have been something of her in there, hair or prints, God forbid DNA. But what was it, 9 or 10 days later when it was searched. THERE WAS NOTHING there. The car must have been cleaned. I know deepaks mother told GVS how much he thought of his car, but don't you find that little tidbit thrown in the conversation interesting? This is just another indication of poor LE actions, by not checking the last known witnessed place Natalee was, for evidence.
I still think daddy has a lot to do with where she is now, somehow. Then again it would not have been hard or have taken very long for deepak and joran to have put her in a dump, pond or ocean. This crime did not require a master criminal.

quote from ugamom

I think alot of the anger is the fact that the Aruban LE have seemed to have totally screwed up the investigation.  It seems as if this should be a solvable case, but at every juncture, LE has dropped the ball.  Yes, more eyes are on them than ever, but that should improve their job performance.  They have come off looking like the keystone cops.[/quote]

Since Aruban law does not allow them to discuss the case we don't what facts they have. I don't think it's fair at this time to say they drop the ball.

If this was the U.S. the three boys would not be in jail. They have no body, confession, or proof a crime has even taken place.[/quote]

Ed says that the 2 drug dealers was one was American one was a local dealer...who is Sean McVie ?? The Chaparones may hold the key..The family Twit also know a few inside info. so he says, it s top secret, he feels we need to investigate all possibilities...call them, interrogate them.  Was Natalee twice to Aruba before? Rumor or Confirmed?  I think the mom said she was..?!

I think a lot of people's frustration with this whole situation goes back to the first two weeks of the investigation, when the Aruban authorities kept making announcements that the "case would be solved within 24 hours," or that it would be solved "tomorrow." I still can't figure out why they set themselves up this way.

I said it earlier but Ill say it again. I think they really screwed the pooch in this investigation by not taking the car, and clothing the boys were wearing on day 1. If Joran and the brothers did anything there was nothing genius about it. Anyone can get away with a crime when your given more then a week to get rid of the evidence.

By ARTHUR MAX

   AMSTERDAM, June 28 (AP) -- The disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba is bringing attention to the Caribbean island at a time when the Aruban community in the Netherlands already is under scrutiny by the Dutch government.

Dutch media paid scant attention to Natalee Holloway's disappearance
until the arrest last week of Paul van der Sloot, the Dutch father of one
of the suspects and a senior legal official who is training to become a
judge. Van der Sloot was released on Sunday.

But Arubans here have been following the news closely. Their concern is
that the case could precipitate a sharp decline in tourism to the tropical
island off the Venezuelan coast -- a Dutch protectorate -- resulting in
economic hardship and spurring a wave of migration to Holland, at just the
wrong time for the 120,000 immigrants already here.

"Everyone is talking a lot about it," said Henry Breeveld, the director
of a Rotterdam welfare organization for Antilles and Aruba immigrants.

In an effort to curb crime and unemployment, the Dutch government has
proposed deporting young people from the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba who neither have jobs nor are in school.

"People come to Holland whenever the economy is bad or when they feel
insecure," Breeveld said.

The government proposal, which came before Holloway's disappearance,
faces legal challenges because people from the islands -- former colonies
that remain part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands -- are Dutch citizens.
Islanders say the move is discriminatory and have vowed to fight it in
court.

But there is little security here for newcomers following the expulsion
measure proposed last April by the conservative government of Prime
Minister Jan Peter Balkenende. Under the plan, young immigrants would have three months to find a job, enroll in studies or return home.

The proposal, which is not in effect, was denounced by the Antillean
parliament. Prime Minister Etienne Ys failed to budge Balkenende when he
came to The Hague earlier this month, and left the meeting acknowledging he was "angry."

The Netherlands colonized the Antilles islands in the 17th century as
part of the Dutch West Indies. The Antilles' colonial status ended in 1954
when the islands became an autonomous country in the Kingdom of the
Netherlands. Aruba broke away from the other five islands in 1986.

The relationship with their former colonial power is sensitive. Some
residents favor a complete break from the distant Dutch kingdom, while
others warn that economic and political chaos would ensue.

In the recent conflict, Arubans say The Hague has no right to expel them
because they are equal citizens under Dutch law. The government says its
case is based on the fact that Dutchmen require permits to take residency
in the kingdom's Caribbean states.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said Antilleans are mistaken if they
think the Netherlands "is the land of milk and honey." Those who have no
chance at home won't have one in Holland either, she said.

The Netherlands, once a haven for refugees, has grown sensitive to
immigration since the 2002 election, when the populist politician Pim
Fortuyn urged the country to close its borders to new arrivals, blaming
them for rising crime and unemployment.

Though Fortuyn directed his ire at Muslims, jobless and disadvantaged
youth from the Caribbean were swept up in the anti-immigrant mood. Fortuyn was assassinated days before the election, but his call to limit
immigration has been embraced by mainstream parties.

Antillean youths are often blamed for high crime rates and violence in
the major cities, although statistics show that only a small minority are
truly problematic.

It may have been that the Twittys didn't want him to air this revelation, so early in the case. Better to hold it over van der Straten's head, to get cooperation. There is a delicate balance that the Twittys have to maintain, and I am sure that they have made this clear to Fox News. I listen as closely to what Beth Twitty DOESN'T SAY as I do to what she DOES SAY.

.. I hope they find Nat with the sophistated equipment.  So that this is over and done with.  I do not know what is going one with the Family , we understand the pressure to continue the search, Me too if something like this happens till you give up..It depends on the person but I would also stay around, there is a lot of pain. ... I think either one or 2 more months but if so, they can leave with the peace of mind that they did all possible they could...we tried all the best.. the family has persistance and patience.. we need compasion of their emotions.  

Blah blah blah, the difference in justice systems, and we need to send a msg to the Aruba, that we slow down with this story so that we can continue our regular work, elections is coming,  we welcome int. press..and continue the good job.  Be aware of sensationalist reporters, and take with a grain of salt, ..I believe that there are intelligent Americans..

I think in Aruba there is people that know, and should come forward. Thanks Harry.

I do not post much in here. But it is rather unbelievable how this case attract so much people. It is also unbelievable how can young life "dissappear" in such way.

Lot of theories were presented in this forum, however I did not notice one i believe rather important issue, which in cas of jorans involvement may play quite significant role.

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.

On the other hand, all such conversation may end up in terrible shame if joran is proven innocent. However, nothing yet points to that so I just wanted to add some comments.

Yea I concur, but the Texas search team said the same thing.. like they gonna find Nat with in a day.. Why they say that?

I bet that is what they are use to. I wonder how many people go missing every year, and show up a few days latter. They just did not want to go home, found a new boy/girl friend. Had a fight with their husband/wife boy/girl friend ect.

Don't forget that President Bush is live tonight at 8pm, the talking heads on all 3 news networks will be covering that first tonight. So unless there is real breaking news going into the 7pm hour that will be it probably til Greta at 10. Also may be the reason she has been so quiet today.

First of all, I never used the word "we' so the sarcasm is duly noted and disregarded.
If these guys don't confess, Natalee's body is not found, and valuable forensic evidence has been lost because of Aruban LE negligence, then I don't see any other outcome but the guys will be released. Because the LE did such a poor, sloppy job--the boys name will never be cleared. Just as there is no known evidence of their guilt, there is NO evidence of their innocence Should the guys be released, the Aruban LE will always be known for its ineptness, that is a fact. But, I don't think for one minute, Natalee's family will let this rest. They will never stop looking for their daughter, or trying to find out what happened to her. The truth will come out one way or the other. If it is these guys, it will come out. If another door opens, it will be gone threw and followed until the end.

having said all that, I am basing my post on what we know now. It may come to light that Aruban LE has done an excellent job and that will be noted then. But for now, the only fact we have is Natalee got in a car with joran and the bros kalpoe, and that makes them suspects numero uno

Yep!! It's easier to lay the blame than share it I guess.

Greta's Blog, more MONKEY!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160904,00.html

There isn't a reporter down there who would hold back on a story like this, even for the Twitty's.  As I said before, this kind of tidbit is the stuff cases like this are made of!   It could be it's been covered up and no one has been able to confirm it...but, that's doubtful too...this is an easy thing to get confirmation on.  I've sent this question to someone I know covering the case.  I'll see what she says.

So far, the only Aruban who has come forward on his own was Steven Croes, and then it was only to give a false alibi to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. I think we are dealing with the "closing of the ranks" right now. Joran's friends and acquaintances know that the Twittys will be going home some day, but that they'll have to live with their neighbors for a lot longer time. Call it "island mentality," if you will. An us-and-them attitude toward the outside world. Tourists and camera crews come and go, but neighbors stay neighbors for generations and generations.

<<what I said was if this fact were true it would've been reported over and over and over. That hasn't happened. Which leads me to believe it's Geraldo BS.>>


That makes some sense.  But on the other hand, wide reporting of this fact does nothing to help the investigation at this juncture.  It most likely would harm the investigation.  Could reporters be holding back for this reason?

What drives me crazy is the lack of response from the government.  To me, this is a serious charge against the integrity of Aruban law enforcement.  If it's all false, wouldn't you want to shout that to the heavens?  You're not giving away any information that directly impacts the investigation, and it's not like the spokespeople have anything better to say.  Why not a denial?  Unless you can't do it truthfully.

Compananzi, so what do you think of the story of the two drug dealers by the HI? I remember one of the chaperones saying they complained to HI staff that the drug dealers were harassing the MB students.

This is my thought.  I appreciated your perspective here.  The impression I get and I was thinking about this this morning is that Joran may certainly have some sort of hostility within him where his physical actions against others are an indication of his disproval of others or an attempt to control them.

<<casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.>>


They admit that Natalee was in the car.  Not finding a hair, or any other shred of evidence, seems to indicate that the three DID have the expertise to pull off a caper like this.

We should see Greta tonight, she did make the comment about seeing BHT  & Jug , and hoping it was a different conversation. I am wondering how much longer Greta is going to stay...Not long, it appears from her comments of having the same conversation every night, unless something big breaks. Unfortunately I don't think that's gonna happen soon.

I am so afraid they will not find her & these boys are going to be released :(

I don't think they will be held more than a few days longer

actually this is wrong, I think people are forgetting the way the American system works

if the prosecutorial team in Aruba didn't have enough to hold Paul Van Der Sloot past 48 hours, you can rest assured that by the American standard of probable cause that Paul Van Der Sloot could neither be detained nor charged because the Aruba standard is in fact much lower than the US, aye there's the rub, which is why it is curious that the father was released, surely the prosecutors in Aruba, knowing that PVDS has connections to both the legal community and police community would not be arresting him on a mere whim, ie. they would only pick him up if they had more than the usual evidence.......

and those 3 boys, even if they were charged in the US, depending on the charge, they could still make bail

remember bail kids?

and just because these kids are released doesn't mean they still aren't under investigation, just like when people are released on bail.....

Didn't someone report that Deepak had his car cleaned after this all happened? I don't remember where I saw it or read it... Can anyone confirm? If so that would explain lack of hair etc.

   I don't know. It's troublesome when law enforcement (or any) people make promises they obviously can't keep.
   I suppose it's barely possible that they did find a body yesterday or even the day before and are keeping that information under very tight wraps pending an official identification.

EXACTLY NANCY, I FORGOT ABOUT THAT TOO AND YOU COULDN'T BAR PARENTS FROM VISITING THE KIDS COULD YA?

NOW THE ONE THING ARUBA DOES HAVE THAT WE IN NORTH AMERICA DON'T IS A PRIVILEGE BETWEEN PARENT AND CHILD - BIZARRE :shock:

The unique component to this case is that, even though Aruba is a Dutch protectorate, for all and intents and purposes, the island nation's existence is predicated on it remaining an American playground.

Right or wrong, the American government wields a great deal of leverage in this situation because the island's survival is dependent on the tourism generated from the US (~80% of its revenue).

You would be hard-pressed to find another foreign island in the Caribbean, or any country outside North America for that matter, that relies more upon the American market than Aruba.  Thus, you have this perceived heavy-handedness, that would unlikely exist elsewhere under similar circumstances.

Geraldo reported the car cleaning of DK last night. Divatoo.

Nancy I think you are wrong there, I also think there are stories being held back right now as we type! lol. Sometimes when GVS gets going you can actually tell she is self-editing. The family does it all the time. I would think, especially when dealing with a foreign country and a totally different culture, one would have to be very careful what is said out loud and what isn't. One of the reasons there is "breaking news" of little tiny facts at a time, is because the big stories can't be told in entirety, YET.

It will be interesting what your friend says, please let us know.

:D  Good morning/afternoon All! Hope everyone is doing well today

I have two questions for ya and yes i know i am probably grasping at straws, but we do have to look at all possible scenarios

(1) Do we know if Paulus has any ties with anyone in construction?  Could a body not be placed where concrete was poured, thus body lost forever?

(2) Did the police search the entire yard of the VDS's? I know we heard they searched the house and cars, but I would think with the high walls they could have buried a body easily on their own property with no peeping eyes anytime of day  or nite? Could have placed some structure over to hide grave?  Just thinking out loud.......

 :roll:  Ok Thanks, guess that's going in my rumors & speculation column

LOL

Who said they didn't find any evidence in the car???

They aren't releasing evidence to the public.

G'day monkeys!

Any news today on the search at the quarry?

after they admitted to being with her the night she dissapeared and left with her after the club.........yes they would have taken them in...then proceeded to impound their car, take their clothes, cell phones...computers...etc..... then , at that point, there would have been evidence, or reason to hold them.........No if the investgation went like this has (not doing anything for a week) then no we wouldnt be able to hold them.........but im pretty sure........forensics would have been alll over those boys, their houses, clothes, car and telephone and email records the second they were picked up............Not a week later.......

There is such a thing as a potential crime scene being too "clean".  It would depend on the evidence they were looking for....say, if it were blood, that would still likely be detectable whereas hair would not or skin fibers may not.  Also, is there any indication or traces of cleaning substances being used in the vehicle?  It was said that the car was being washed at 3:00 a.m. one morning but I have read no official reports of this.

I think the original poster has hit on one possible way someone like Joran might "rationalize" his actions (if indeed he did what I think he did). But it Joran were a true sociopath, he wouldn't need ANY reason. And that is the scary part. It could just as easily have been a Dutch girl, or a Venezuelan, or Colombian girl. And the results would have been the same.

Message on this forum posted by 'red':http://forum.prophecies.us/viewtopic.php?p=82282#82282

just in:

Who is Jeremy Edward Brown??? He came here on the same day as the students and did not leave the island yet., according to immigration.
Here in Aruba we have PRE- Clearace imm. so that you do not have to
go through imm. in the states again. Could Jeremy be friends with Natie
or is he her boyfriend that Natie Aun't in the states (brown hair) told Larry King???

Also Beth H. told in her intrerviewshe was called by 911 in USA that her
daughter has been kidnapped before she came here to Aruba.. Is this true?.
Also the US search & rescue team insulted our press by very ugly names, but they do only allow FOX news to film the searches. Mr. Miller told the press here and in US that "No press will be allowed to the search".
Please let me know this is very important

Any info, please reply..
RED..



Someone who heard more about this guy, he also graduated on the same school. Is he missing too??





http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/south.ssf?/base/community/1117133115430711.xml&coll=2#continue

I don't know but on the other hand, this guy was apparently in love with his car so the fact he cleaned it at least once before the cops grabbed it wouldn't necessarily be sinister, they did take long enough to pick it up

while I realize CSI is fiction, they had an episode where a limo had been detailed, possibly more than once before the crime lab got to it, and they still were able to find hair and blood,  people think they have gotten all the blood cleaned up but all you got to do is use lumenol and you can find it, even if people used bleach etc

they had another episode of CSI where a woman bleached a puddle of blood on hardwood floor and she put a coat of poly on it every year (she had killed her husband's first wife years ago) and they were still able to determine it was blood by using lumenol......

Yes someone last night on Gretas interview said that he "apparently" had his car cleaned that next day, according the the car wash attendant

sorry if this posted numerous times :roll:

trikand_123:
 I see more and more Europeans on this blog. I imagine quite a few are Dutch. It appears that after the arrest of PVDS the interest picked up tremendously.
Good points:
1. The fight at the Dunkin' Donuts when Joran slammed a boy against the glass. No repercussions.
2. Anti-Americanism among Arubans. I joined this blog the 1st week in June. It surprised me since so much of the economy and so many reports of how "Arubans love Americans". It seems like there is a thinly veiled contempt for Amerians.

This is important in the political and socio-economic landscape of Aruba.
I think it will require the Dutch to become much more actively involved.
If Aruba suffers in tourism there will be much more of a demand to return to Holland. Immigration is a hot button in the Netherlands.
Enough for a libertarian politician (Pim Fortuyn) to be assasinated in 2002 over the subject. See below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn


The Dutch will be on this much more if the "Boycott Aruba" movement takes hold in America. They do not want Aruban or immigrants to seek the Netherlands as an alternative to a downturn in tourism.

This won't be the last investigation not done well.  Other things maybe did work to their advantage though.  Time will tell.

There are two types of rumors on the island:

1. She is dead and buried somewhere
2. She is alive and is being helped or held by 2 guys

I am focused on the second rumor.

I will be the first one to admit that i agree that investigations here are not always done the right way or what not.......just saying that it is natural that people would be frustrated with this investigation thats all

 :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
I'll be reading with interest to see where this leads, seriously.

I seriously doubt anymore highschool sponsored senior trips will take place in Aruba anytime in the near future.

Hi Guys,

Read the news , no hairs found of holloway in the car of deepak. Very suspicious. Obviously cleaned very well . The more I think of it the more it appears to be a "mickey mouse" investigation.

Do not think that sending specialists from the Netherlands is going to bring up anything new.

Wonder where I would start  or where others would start searching for evidence when on Aruba.

I believe that it may not be that hard to find out what was his real attitude towards this issue. Usually people talk often about the things they did not agree with or hate. However, it would require a good cautious interview of his friends.

    What is the basis for the second rumor, do you know? "Helped" by two guys? What kind of "help"?

Sorry didn't mean to goof up the bold and formatting on that last post...

just like "jug" said during the interview with greta..if his son was with someone who went missing the night he was with her..he would have been at that police station the next mornin with his son.......sayin "what can we do to help" would you like a statement etc....not run from people............If you are not guilty of something........you would think he would have been there willing to help in any way possible

I siad this yesterday..if they havent already, i think they should go over that car, the house, Jorans apartment, etc.with Luminol..no cleaning in the world can hide from Luminol and a black light... :D

Next Monday will be very important.
That is the next time the "Judge of Intsruction" will have to determine if there is enough evidence to hold any or all of the boys.
After that the next time is 60 days.

That is what Marianne Croes, the Aruban Prosecution spokeswoman, said last night on Greta.
Did you ever notice Marianne never really says anything, but she is so damn cute you don't really care?

After the PVDS release by this judge it seems without further evidence to move the case along he would not be likely to hold them.

With it being the US 4th of July. The release would not get much notice in the US press. I am sure all of the Fox folks will be back in the US for the holiday. Even Greta alluded to the "same old same old" when talking to Beth Holloway last night. I think Greta is preparing her exit strategy.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING WOULD TAKE IT OUT....IT WOULD DETECT IT

I concur with this assessment based on the interview Greta van Susteren conducted with Anita and Paulus van der Sloot.

Here is the relevant excerpt:

VAN SUSTEREN: Girlfriends?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, of course. I mean, there were two girlfriends in his life that he had a longer relationship with. One was an American girl, who left, who was part of the school, and she just sent an e-mail totally upset because she finished the relationship and she thought that Joran was too sweet, she needed a stronger man.

Why would a mother say something in an interview aired worldwide, that would be most embarrassing and humiliating to her son?

Why say, in a defensive manner, 'Yes, of course', and then immediately proceed to correct herself by saying, 'I mean...' ?

In a homophopic society like Aruba, where any absence of masculinity amongst men is denigrated and frowned upon, it is reasonable to conclude that Joran, through societal pressure, overcompensated for his perceived lack of manhood by preying upon vulnerable women whom were either extremely intoxicated, drugged or not mature enough to recognize his motive, like the 13-year old 7th grade East Asian girl he dated this past year.

With Natalee, another American girl, he likely transferred that abandonment rage upon her.

There is also reason to believe this was not an isolated or first incident.

Why would Deepak, a friend of Joran's, say that he "should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy", unless Deepak has knowledge or reason to believe that Joran is dangerous or that Natalee wouldn't be safe with him because he has a violent past with women?

If it is a fact that the car was cleaned, it shouldn't be too difficult to find out where it was cleaned.  Was it vacuumed by chance?  Seems there could be some evidence in the area of the cleaning...if this is a fact?

LOLOL..aint that the truth..she talks in circles, tries to edit herself, and never really says anything new..but she is as cute as a button and youre like, "aww, well, thats ok...i like her anyways"...I wish I were that cute...lol

why is the luminol subject such a big deal, if he strangled her theres not giong to be any blood. Or pushed her down and she hit her head on something.  Theres plenty of ways she could have died without any blood.

Too funny - off topic I know (don't yell at me) but I was thinking the same thing.  Heck I was thinking alot of the females they have had on (lawyers, etc) have all been to darn cute.  Heck Marianne even had the cutest glasses.  But you are right, even when she is trying not to answer - she comes across as nice.  How thankless is her job??

I never heard anything about deepak sayin that or "sellin out" his friend..if true..that is very interesting..i was wonderin...why we havent heard much bout the brothers at all.......anyone hear new info bout them?

I fully agree with you about the next court appearance.  They do have to come up with additional reasons to hold them at each court appearance.  If there's no body and no further evidence I have a really hard time believing they'll hold them all for 60 more days...but, then I could be totally wrong.

I also said earlier this story could die fast for MSM.  I don't think that will happen for the next few days as Fox has sent even more people there in the last days.  But, the story is dependant on new info everyday.  They can only recycle so much.

AND, Fox is going for the ratings with this story.  They are doing minimal news stories on the Supreme Court, Iraq, etc.  Yes, they're doing the stories but the Natalee story is taking all their big resources.

That is true...but if they cleaned the car as efficiently as they supposedly did, they had to have been cleaning SOMETHING...

I wonder what the former American girlfriend looks like, if she resembles Natalee at all?  Far-fetched maybe, but if they do look alike he could have taken Natalee's rejection and another rejection by a past girlfriend that left him.

Just thinking out loud!!!

I don't think his friends are going to say a word that might bring Joran under any more suspicion. I think that a "code of silence," is in effect, right now, and will continue for the duration of this investigation.

...do we know for absolute certain that she left C&C's with those
3 in Deepaks car?... has that been confirmed?

As I recall they have said that she did leave with them.  Yes I know that they have lied, that's been stated several times.  But, if she didn't get into the car with them, why would they put themselves in a position saying that she did/

It would not hurt to investigate, as a curious monkey I d say I d like to know know what they are selling, how much, what is the profit margin, who is there distributor, did they see Natalee, where do they live? Who is the American as the radio announcer tried to verbalize, who is the Chaparone what spoke with them, did they feel the Chaparone was bringing on the heat?  What drugs do they sell, did they sell any to Joran, Kalpoes, the MB students?  ..well that is just to few quick questions in my mind.

I am glad they are talking about the lack of followup on these things.  That's a start.
Here I go again:
Maid screaming
Girl stuggling with two men
A door that opens onto the beach
Purse and money in hotel room
The mysterious Lorenzo with likely ties to organized crime/porn production

Dr. Seuss' lines keep going through my head:
"This mess is so big and so deep and so tall,
I cannot pick it up, oh no not at all!"

For my money, there was big time help involved in this cover-up.  

Late last night after I'd gone to bed, Wonderwoman sent me these links:
http://www.mrpinkproductions.com/
http://www.guide2paradise.com/
Just the most vile commodification of women.  It wouldn't be there if there weren't a market for it. Somehow I think this sort of business fits into the missing puzzle pieces.

Another link someone sent yesterday:
 http://photos.tickle.com/q2e-9L7lZfx7fs.o
"Every picture tells a story, story"

Yuck.  Yuck.  Yuck.

More Yuck:  
Richard Scrushy is found innocent on all charges in his HealthSouth fraud trial.

While I can't wait to see the video footage of the monkey knocking Greta on her ass, I thought the two most interesting e-mails from her site were these:

E-mail No. 2

Paul van der Sloot knows the chief of police and the head prosecutor far too well for them to do their jobs with anything approaching due diligence. Van der Sloot no doubt knows things about them that they would not want exposed. I suspect even the judge that turned him loose is concerned that Van der Sloot might expose the dirt on the Aruban justice system if they burn him or his son. Aruba is an in-grown island nation and Van der Sloot is part of the Aruban elite. There will be no justice for Natalee until Paul van der Sloot's hold over the prosecution team (including the police) is exposed to the public in the Netherlands. Maybe then they will take charge.
Just my opinion.
Cedric Jones


E-mail No. 4

Greta,
I am a private investigator and wilderness crime scene investigation is my forte. I have been following this case on your show since the beginning. Although you can't report everything in one hour, there are some aspects of the search that seem to be missing. Searching the waters and the land areas can be only a portion of what needs to be searched. The following are some of my questions:
1. Have the storm water drainage pipes, street gutters and manholes been checked? If not, a confined space search team needs to get in there and look.
2. Have searchers checked burned debris on or around the beach and Van der Sloot home? If not they should check. Buttons and zippers don't always burn, evidence of clothing could be found even if it was burned.
3. Did the investigators check the handles of shovels and tools that belong to Van der Sloot? If not, they need to. These items, when used to bury or otherwise dispose of a body contain blood or body fluid from the victim, transferred from the suspect's hands.
There are many other questions, but with all the typical areas searched already, these three questions when answered may find Natalee.
Robert Birch
Dorothy, NJ

    That was what Ted Bundy did: kidnapped, raped, tortured, and killed young women who physically resembled the young woman who'd rejected him.

Yeah. I'm afraid we know that for certain. And that's why it is so curious that Deepak gave his car such a thorough cleaning. Why? We already knew that Natalee was in that car. So there was no reason to remove every trace. Every trace.

We have to remember that we don't know what ALL evidence the Prosecutor's Office has. Mariaine Croes always has that Cheshire Cat, "I've Got A Secret" look about her that makes you think that they know FAR more than they are telling.

I am not too worried about the 60-day extension coming through. They would be absolute IDIOTS to let those guys go. THEN you would see a "backlash for sure"...AGAINST Aruba.

I would just like to say for a lot of us is that I think one of the primary reasons we are intrerrested in the case as we recognize this person Natalee as being someone that represents the better parts of ourselves and to have her gone missing or dead brings sadness to the hearts of so many individuals.  It's not just about her good grades or Aruba, the differences in judicial systems,  how pretty she is, things like that....it's about the history of her character, her concern for others, trustworthyness, dependability and such virtues.  JMO

Good questions!  Do you think perhaps we could be having another one of those "misinterpretations" of information?  Perhaps the police commissioner's godfather to the younger van der Sloot, Sebastian, who WAS born in Aruba?  Just musing.

Scott, I like the way you think, I just mentioned it last night to my friend, I wonder if they have (the polis that is) checked all places the VDS and Kalpoes have access to, for instance freezer lockers?  I would think quick decomposition being a problem there and a limited time to hide a body, a freezer would be an ideal place. I dont mean to sound grotesque, but that would give someone (a third party) time to dispose of it later without notice.  These people are slick, if they have hid a body this long.

You bet they are scared.  I bet a lot of people involved are scared.  Maybe even Joran.  Can't help wondering if he wasn't suckered into something way, way over his head, not just with Natalee, but for at least the past year in his life.  All those party pics.  The reputed porn movie.  Drugs.  Gambling.  Heads in the graveyard.  Not a very healthy world.  Yep, I bet the hotel workers are scared to speak.

Anyone cares joining me to aruba , to do some monkey bussiness

Reporter on Fox said that SC and PVDS are STILL considered suspects..even though they have been released. Also..Dutch Marines will be helping with the search and Mr Miller is greatful for the help.
  SC and PVDS may be out of jail.. BUT I betcha they are being watched like hawks.

yes, I know.  It just was something that struck me funny about those cryptic posts.

on another post:

Jeremy Edward Brown was a 2005 graduate of MB.    I had not heard anything about him being missing.

Godfather in the legal sense? As in, something happens to his parents while he's a minor, this man would take care of him?

Godfather in the symbolic sense, like an honorary special place in his life?

Or godfather in the religious sense, like a Catholic sponsor?--> This wouldn't make sense given that Joran's tickle profile said for religion: "None...sowwy" (exact quote)

Kelly,

Mickey John, the framed black security guard, said in an interview after being released, that Deepak had admitted this to him while they were in jail together.

If they were smart, they would be monitoring their every move and their converstaions....Not sure if its actually legal, but think they mentioned that theydid it to the brothers and joran

I've always thought it captured the imagination because it is the worst nightmare of all parents

now having a missing child for any reason is the worst nightmare of any parent

but I don't think we've had a missing person case in this particular kind of scenario,   none that I can remember........

add to the fact that Aruba is a popular and deemed safe tourist destination

factor in the rest of the news has been the same old same old, esp in Washington

the exceptions being the Boy Scout was found [the kid is kind of weird, they now think he was hiding from rescuers because he was taught to avoid strangers) and the three boys stuck in the trunk and may I just say, I was reading about the father ragging on the cops about why they didn't check the trunk of the grandmother's car, he said it was one of the most obvious places to look,  I hate to seem callous but hello dad if it was so obvious why didn't you check the trunk of grandma's car before you even called the police, because then you certainly may have had a chance at saving those boys

I certainly would not call the police until I had checked every inch of my property and at the house of every friend and nearby relative and these boys had played in grandma's car before......but I digress. sorry mod

actually, Joran's Myspace profile states christian-other for religion

Wow, dont know how i missed that, i watched that interview with him when he got out a few times......must have been one i missed.....i only heard the story about not actually goin to the HI ..well thanks, good to know

Yup... a "bright" conclusion, mainly since the "godfather in the religious sense" is a cerimony usualy realized when a person is 2 or 3 years old. :wink:

Let's see now. They've probably burned their clothes, washed and vacuumed out their cars, erased their hard drives, gotten rid of all traces of Natalee and her clothing, etc., etc. But we can be sure the Aruban authorities will now be watching them like HAWKS at this point. I'm sorry. If they WANTED to sabotage this investigation, they couldn't have done a better job of it.

Geraldo Rivera and Bill O'Reilly are to thank for that pressure/suggestion.

hi, first post here. lived in the virgin islands 15 yrs, HI a couple & visited aruba many times with my parents & as a teen hoping to move there, back when there was only 1 hotel. i also have a missing son that vanished from right here in FL, where i live now & have gotten NO help even here in the US! (pls see my link)

from my experience in the islands :

babylon = USA

twitty put VDS's on the defense, IMMEDIATELY, with his attitude upon arrival to aruba. island people are extremely  polite & observe the "good mornings", "how are yous", regardless.

blast me if you will, it is the truth!

I heard the statement this morning, but for the life of me I can not remembr the exact title...perhaps if we could get the title correct, attach a name to it...and then see if the 'godfather' statement can be verified as correct..  Would this not need to be someone they knew and were close with from Holland as a child is baptized usually while a babe in arms. ....and I am fairly sure I read they had only been on the island for approx 15 yrs.  I think IF this is true there could be some sort of legal appeal to have this person recused (much as what would happen with a judge in a case would )....and an independant police official brought in from someplace else...perhaps the Hague?  Could this person actually hinder the investigation?  Just thinking out loud.

Sunny

I have been suspicious of the arrest of PVDS from the beginning, especially with him being released so quickly.   I get a weird feeling that it might have done for ulterior motives.  1.  To pacify NH parents or 2.  To allow PVDS to get on the inside where he would have the opportunity to speak to or get messages to JVDS on the inside.  Were they in the same location when PVDS was arrested, or different places?   This is purely speculation.  
Klowe

Couldnt the Godfather also be someone who came over from the Netherlands?

<<Yup... a "bright" conclusion, mainly since the "godfather in the religious sense" is a cerimony usualy realized when a person is 2 or 3 years old.>>


Then an official denial should be very simple to issue.

I don't feel anyone has reason to "blast" you.  I am sorry to hear that your son is also missing.  I hope you can get the help you need.  I know in looking at your "link" that it is being viewed by many right now.  

stay and follow if you have time.  If not, our prayers go with you.

I have a question..everyone keeps wondering about the time line..would Joran have enough time to dispose of a body, even with help, in the few hours that are alotted...Are we sure that, assuming Natalee is dead, that the body wasnt "stored" until the next day, and then disposed of later? That would allow enough time to pass to locate a spot, etc..or, maybe papa VDS exposed of it when Joran was at school the next day... Just wondering...

I have seen one that says that but I think this one was put up AFTER all this sh*t hit the fan...the first day Natalee went missing, before Joran was ID'd by name on the news, websleuths (with Arubans' help I am sure, along with MBHS kids) figured out Joran was the one last seen leaving with Natalee, and his Tickle profile was posted. For religion it said "None, sowwy". (ie, cutesy way of sorry)........then the Tickle profile was pulled down. I later saw a link to a WAY smaller scale Tickle site for Joran that I don't know if it's one he put back up knowing he was getting media searchings or was a fake....this Tickle profile had Christian in the religion, had many less friends, and didn't have all the photos from before. I tend to believe the first one, that he's just not a kid who has religious beliefs. I took "sowwy" to mean that he knows this may not be a popular stance- maybe some of his friends were Catholic, or whatever....

So I believe in the first original Tickle profile. Maybe someone has a link to a screen capture where it has the religion part.....I MAY have saved it, I have a small folder of Natalee-related stuff....saved from the very beginning....

Entirely possible. Or even the day following the arrival of Beth Twitty.

You read my mind.  Along those lines, I would like very much to know who SASHA is.

Joran posted numerous photos of "Sasha's" 15th birthday blowout.  It startled me how much she looks like a younger Natalee, one that's still more adolescent than woman.  

If the theory of transference is valid -- as you suggest -- then I'd like to know the link between Joran and Sasha.

From the photos, I doubt she's the American ex.  But if she is a relative, her resemblance to Natalee -- and Joran's romantic pursual of Natalee -- is beyond creepy.

http://album.pancayente.com/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=42

At the time of this posting, the link is still working.

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14905439&Mytoken=20050609101428

thx, OWL

Will do. Before I stick to breaking news I will apologize to Geraldo. Not for creatively spelling his name, but for derogatory comments.

 :arrow:   SORRY GERALDO! Just meant it as constructive criticism, bro.

 :wink:

we need to check with our aruba sources to determine if this godfather rumor is true.  we had a fairly strong assessment last night that this guy is hard as nails and would "take his wife in" it she messed up.  Maybe they blew the investigation but that does not make it a cover up.  not the first time the men in blue blew one.

you hit the nail, ... i posted about this a few post back,
have the following been checked
a. any freezer lockers they have/had access to (or refrigerated vehicles)
b. any shipments (large objects)

This would support the poster who spoke about the rumor of 2 guys dragging a girl who was hysterical on the beach.  Could that be the 2 guys that were drug dealers and the chaperone approached.  They knew the group-and saw NH on the beach alone??

well, IMHO, I do not beleive she was disposed of that night, if in fact she is dead..i think it was at a later time..and i wouldnt doubt it at all if she wasnt hidden in Joran's apartment when the twitty's were over there in the wee hours of May 31st...It is my speculation, that she was probably strangled, and i do hope that  when and if an autopsy is done, that they pay close attention to the hyoid bone in case decomposition has destroyed any ligature marks or hand prints...I feel like they just possibly threw her in the trunk of the car,or in PVDS's car when he picked Joran up that night..and waited to dispose of her when there was time to think of justthe right way, time, etc to do so...I am firm in my beleifs that Papa VDS is the one who masterminded the disposal...just my thoughts... :D

I certainly would not blast you.  I can't even begin to imagine how you feel having a missing child.  And I have said all along that we should not throw stones as we have many many cases of missing children and adults in this country that are not being found.  My heart and prayers go out to you and I truly hope that your child is found.  God be with you.

When I saw the Myspace profile, I wondered if the answer was a choice in a form of pre-written multiple choice answers.  It doesn't seem likely Joran would type in an original answer that said "Christian - other."

For example, on Classmates.com you can't type in original answers, but rather you click on one the answers provided on the form.  Maybe they didn't have one for atheist, or agnostic, or whatever, instead including "other" only by "Christian."  Anyone with a MySpace account who can verify?

Who is MR Pink, and why does the link to his yukky sites keep coming up in posts, did I miss something other than the Aruban Prostitute thing? I was just wondering what the link to Natalee was.....

This reminds me of something I was going to ask ArubaGirl or someone else from Aruba. (First I'd like to know who Sasha is too)...

Are girls' 15th birthdays a big deal in Aruban culture like the quinceano (sp?) in Mexico, or are these photos pics from a regular random birthday party?

I apologize for my butchering od the Spanish word...been a long time since I used my menial Spanish skills!

Someone had speculated that he may actually be the elusive Lorenzo.  We'll have to ask Arubagirl if she shows up today.

http://www.hammocktree.org/ms/Aruba05/Aruba05.html

This is a great site to see some pictures of Aruba and get a real feel for the beautiful island....Only wish the Twittys/Holloways were able to see it this way!

That was my assumption, too. I read that site awhile back when the story and assumed it was a choice between maybe "Christian - Catholic" and "Christian - other," as if to imply Protestantism. This would be consistent with traditional Dutch custom, too, so I didn't think much about it.

Of course, Christians aren't supposed to hurt others as Joran is suspected of doing. There are people who identify themselves as Christians by default, because they celebrate Christmas and Easter and go to church once in awhile. I'm not here to speculate about Joran's religious beliefs, but he could have just chosen that because that's what he most identifies with, and he knew he wasn't Jewish, Hindu, or something else. Or, as someone said, maybe he chose that after the fact, to make himself look better.

If we know that Natalee was in Deepak's car, and if, after his thorough cleaning and vacuuming, no trace evidence of Natalee is found, then we know that a similar cleaning could have gotten rid of all trace evidence in PVDS's car. Just a thought.

I'm very sorry your son is missing. Your website doesn't seem to have any details of what happened. So you must understand how frantic a parent is when their child is missing. And you must know how crucial those early hours can be right after the disappearance.

Apparently, the ARUBANS are polite, but some of the DUTCH don't appear to be since Paul and Joran van der Sloot were pretty rude to the Twittys.

And if the family was so polite, they wouldn't have lied to frantic parents who were desperately searching for their missing daughter. They wouldn't have deliberately led those frantic parents to a place they said they dropped off their daughter, knowing they were lying the entire time.

If you want polite, go to Mountain Brook or most of the south. THOSE people are nice. They are raised from an early age to be nothing BUT polite.

TONIGHT (10.20 PM GMT+2) on Dutch television (NOVA/Den Haag Vandaag): an exclusive interview with PVS!  

YESTERDAY Nova had an exclusive interview with the parents of Natalee. You can watch the video here:

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?cfid=37703080&cftoken=24713366&ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=3538

But as someone has said before-PVDS is onto that idea-if they are watching him like a hawk-he knows that since that is what they did to sonny VDS--watched, tracked and arrested!

I did hear that yesterday too-even though released they r not free from the case-still suspects!

Remember Deepak's car was taken the day the 3 amigos were arrested. But the van der Sloots 2 cars weren't taken until a week later -- almost 3 weeks after Natalee's disappearance.

OK Thanks...


BTW where is CaliGirl  :?:

Hi Guys ,

I want to clarify something , being a godfather in the netherlands does not nesessary mean that it has to be related to religious matters. For example my uncle is my godfather, it is a honorary apointment. My parents appointed my uncle godfather in case something would happen to them then he would be my legal custodian.

I thought Mr. Pink was supposed to be Paul Brough. I heard that name thrown around a few weeks ago, in conjunction with Lorenzo Van Rijn. I'm not sure if they're connected, but I know I learned both names around the same time.

Isn't that a bit of a generalization?

CaliGril was going in for some kind of surgery...I'm sure she'll be back soon.

As I was researching some more on Scary Freddy's tickle site(sorry he just looks as though he is always drunk off his a$$ or high on something)  I am very scared of him....I noticed middle son VDS left a message for Freddy.  His pic is not available (which a week ago it was-after looking up those tickle sites) but is he not concerned with his brother:

Valentijn Van der sloot (Male, 19)
Visited today


http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=u1MlSPrWnwuBAQJQ

Then he has a friend (on the right) named Orgasm.

Plus saw these under messages:

oh oh valentijn... man this guy is craaaaazzzzzzy He's an awsome guy tho good times at the Marriott keep it real!

That is strange.

why do i get the feeling about aruba that as we turn on more lights, we see more roaches scatter?????


each day the trail goes colder, but the circus of the ridiculous gets bigger.

For a totally different perspective:

This is from websleuths. If you look at the responses, MOST people think it has wings:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25443

They believe it explains the TWITTY-HOLLOWAY behavior.
It is also posted on Dan Riehl's site.

Deepak's car had a trunk, but the two cars they towed from the v.d. Sloots didn't. One was an SUV and the other was a jeep -- neither of which have trunks. Of course, they could have thrown a sheet over her.

You are so right! LOL, I was raised that if I had something bad to say about someone , wait until they're gone.....J/K  :P  No, in all seriousness I was raised w/ more manners than Emily Post. That's how you know a true southernor, by their manners. I'm married to a Northerner who thinks I am TOO polite and nice. LMAO

And was it not the Dutch press throwing rocks at the divers & searchers?  :x

Valentijn must have lied on this site. He's not 19. He's about 14 or 15.

Per Fox.. Sources say SC is part of the cover up.. I bet he is NOT off the hook yet..and also repeated about Kalpoe brothers being knee deep again because by now they would have said something..ughhh

The sites came up during speculation early this mgn that perhaps indeed Joran had indeed done nothing to  harm Natalee ..but had taken her to one of these after-hour, underground "Rave" parties and somehow lost control of the "situation" to the "locals"..drug dealers/porno's, of whoever/where-ever this house was. And "they" were/are perhaps the ones ones responsible for "something bad" happening..and now he (Joran) is in fear of his own life due to reprisals if he reveals details.

Thats what was being kicked around this mgn

I would be vehemently against my 18 yo(soon to be 19) niece going to Aruba (or any Caribbean island or MX) on a class trip .......she is an honors student, in her first year of college on a full academic scholarship...smart as a whip...but has no street sense at all.  We took her to Jamaica last year...to an AI, 5 star hotel.......she asked to go to a local bar with some of the waiters/waitresses at 1AM...well DUH....NO WAY!  Sure they worked at the hotel, seemed like nice kids......but no!!!  After thinking about it for a while she admited it was a real 'stupid' idea.  Sometimes kids...and yes in my opinion 18yo's are still kids....just don't stop and think of what CAN happen....

the story is explained on my site, it just takes more than a minute to get it, as it is quite an involved scenario.

i was not talking just about arubans, dutch, etc., but rather all islands (& i have been to ALOT of them). guess ya have to experience it to understand ;) you don't go there & treat the people who live there, ANY of them, like less-thans, or approach people pointing fingers, threatening, & accusing along with your "good ol boys". island people wiill NOT try to help, then. IMHO & FWIW

I've seen that. I think it might explain some of the things we're hearing (or not hearing) from the Twittys and from Mountain Brook, but doesn't explain anything directly related to the investigation.

Why would Beth H-T, just because she thought sex was involved somehow, jump to the conclusion that Natalee was being held by the Van der Sloots? Either she knows something concrete that we don't know, or she's going off of "a mother's intuition." But this really has nothing to do with speculation about Natalee's behavior, and doesn't explain some of the things that poster believes it does.

Hey Nikki! I would tend to agree with "most" of that scenario. However first it would be nice to know "when" (day/time) the Aruban LE began monitoring the 3 boys (if they did at all). I mean at the time this happened, and the 3 boys pointed to the security guards...was the focus of the investigation turned entirely to the 2 guards and away from the 3 boys? Or did LE continue to also focus on the boys? Again...I am using an sssumption of any monitoring/tracking on the part of Arban LE, which like most parts in this mystery, we have a lot of opinions but few FACTS.

Also, remember last night arubagirl told us the Kalpoes' neighbor saw Deepak & Satish washing Deepak's car around 2 or 3 am that Monday morning Natalee disappeared.

Yes, I was just looking at the brothers site a half hour ago.  He lists his age as 19, yet is referred to as a freshman.  Certainly not in college.   :lol:

This is another who seems to go to the casinos and doesn't get his ID checked.  Just my impression that "checking ID's" is something proprietors mention when the press asks.  They have no idea how to tell a fake from a real one.  Come now.   That is hard to believe.

I siad this yesterday..if they havent already, i think they should go over that car, the house, Jorans apartment, etc.with Luminol..no cleaning in the world can hide from Luminol and a black light... :D[/quote]


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING WOULD TAKE IT OUT....IT WOULD DETECT IT[/quote]

And do we know that that was not done? And what if there is no blood?  Does that mean they didn't harm her?
But no trace evidence in Deepak's car is, I think telling......too clean

Hey Angie...it was funny in that report a minute ago how the reporter said that SC's story (when jailed) matched up with the Kalpoe's story...but that the Kalpoe's then CHANGED their story. I am thinking they forgot to send SC the memo on that!! LOL

Very well said Karen and I would like to add you and your son in my prayers tonight. I have added your site to my favorites .
BTW your son is very handsome again my prayers are with you.

Then that is extremely sad that people would not help frantic parents looking for their daughter because they didn't approach them in the "island" manner. If that's the case, then they are truly cold and heartless for not understand how upsetting it is to have a child disappear.

And you of all people should certainly understand that.

The last time I brought up Sasha, I got trounced.  "She's a minor.  Why would you want to bring her into this?"
I do think there's a story to be told in these pictures.

Nova reportage highlights.From the Dutch T.V.

-Paul van der Sloot released  because evidence presented was not sufficient according to magistrate .

-Prosecuter highly disappointed at the release of PvdS.

-Investigators highly disappointed as they concidered the detainment as a breaktrough in the case.

-Investigators suspect joran and the kalpoe brothers due to many contradictionary statements given by them .

I thought the same thing Kerin..and I almost bet SC ends up back in jail as well... This gets more bizzare as time goes by.

Is anyone else looking into the theory that gets talked about in the middle of the night here about possibly uncle Tom VP (relatives) at AMSouth, the articles release on June 2nd, the connection of money laundering?

Angie...can't hang out for long today but if any of our Aruban friends come back in would you ask something? There is another post from today that says truth serum is legal to use in Aruba. Would you find out if that is true? Just wondering....

I read it Absolut....and for my mind to even "go there" I would have to abandon every scenario I have thought about for a month and go completely in a different direction. It just does not IMO make sense....but I am sure to some it may.

Remember Geraldo's purported porn movie scenario?
Remember the mysterious Lorenzo rumored to be involved in porn?  Drugs rumored too.  
Rumors of the "underground" parties?  (Which I think Arubagirl did say she found hard to imagine could be kept secret)
I suppose this goes more in rumor and speculation than the fact catagory, but I cannot help feeling that these DO tie in with Natalee...exactly how I do not know.

I haven't heard this theory--I'm sad I have to miss the discussions that go on in the middle of the night; I'm usually asleep then.

Can you post a link to this theory, or tell us daytime monkeys where to find it?

Sure Karin..I dont know how long I will be here as well.. I have to pick my son up from work when he calls..BUT.. I will do that..and perhaps if anyone else reads this post.. they will do the same!!

There was an interview with a girl who knew Joran (can't remember where I saw it) and she said Joran had a thing for girls who were blonde and American tourists. I think she said his first girlfriend (the one who went to his school and dumped him) was blonde and an American.

Lausa,
I will have to go back to some old notes but if I recall, Sasha is related to Joran (maybe a cousin?). Joran had a link from his myspace or tickle account if I recall with even more photos. (no longer working)

Exactly! :D

That sounds like very good advice for everyone interested in the case, in both official and unofficial capacities.

writenow said


TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN!!! How is Natalee's family supposed to know the "island way"?? :roll: All they know is their daughter is missing, and Joran was last seen w/ her... and by all accounts the VDS were kinda snotty first [/b]

I went to that site and looked at many of the posts.  They are very very speculative and I appreciate the more objective, fact-based speculations presented at SM.  They seem to blame the Twittys for putting a "gag order" on all the teens on the trip.  Honestly, do you really think you can keep over a hundred 18y/o silent about ANYTHING?  By force nonetheless??  How would they enforce such threats?

Some on the trip have spoken to the media, but very few.  This is an extremely private situation and it is very difficult to talk about/speculate/wonder for all those involved.  Even if those kids knew everything that happened, the public is in no way entitled to that information.  Everything that the kids on the trip know has been relayed to the authorities...whether the police or the kids decide to divulge any information is not up to the public or media.

This is how I feel too.  I can't really go there because then this thing becomes so very big.  I really believe this was a simple crime.  I know there are many on this board that disagree with me and I think they've done some great research on it, but IMO, like Kerin, it just doesn't make sense.

On Greta last night Jug was actually begging for HELP....even my hard hearted husband was touched by this outcry......

I don't know who was responsible....but I sure do thank them and will say a special prayer for him/her ronight.

Sunny

Hey Write, haven't you just described many teen boys?  :wink:

It isn't as much of a theory but additional "facts" (I use that term lightly in that believe Geraldo kinda way.) that paint kind of a different picture. Is Tom Twitty related? Why didn't the cousins go back to Aruba for the search, they were just there? Was there a kidnapping call made or not?

It has been brought up in peices and at different times. I have not had the time to really develop it into a theory, but would encourage a couple of the brilliant minds here to.

Considering Joran was supposed to be leaving very soon for college in Florida, it doesn't seem all that plausible that he would be fearing reprisal.

If Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Satish or Steve aren't talking out of fear, the FBI would instantly guarantee the van der Sloots, Kalpoes and Croes safe new lives in America in the Witness Protection Program.

CaliGirl was scheduled to have spinal surgery either yesterday or today.  Say a prayer for her!

Hey Kerin!! I was wondering about that myself..when exactly were the 3 surveilled, and when did that take place? Does anyone know the start time of the supposed surveillance of the 3? I know I heard that they were in fact watched at some point, but i just dont know when that was supposed to have began...

this is a comment left on Juran's site from: aruba one happy eiland on June 14, 2005

"jur du guy that have natalee how gud you am proud of mijn aruba now everybody thinking that is bad"

What could this mean????  jur da guy (your the guy..???)  that have natalee how gud (good...???)

Angie, about the dutch marines..did you just hear that on FOX?

Oh God.. did anyone just hear Geralso say he would like to kick SC butt on FOX?? I cant beleive he said that..yikes

Could you give me a link? Good grief, all my $$ is at AmSouth!!

i DO understand that, but i also understand the difference between frantic & bully ;)  all you have to do is look at twitty .....& imagine him with his posse.. also, FWIW, re VDS & sweating? maybe i am guilty of something, because i sweat all the time, embarassingly so,  down here in fl. i also drink alot of fluids, not even alcohol..

i do feel for the family, i am still in the midst of a nightmare.  thanks, for all your prayers & kind thoughts, those who have commented.

Nikki..  it was earlier today...

I think this translates as"youare the guy that has natalee..how could you..i am proud of my aruba and now you make everyone think itis bad.."

We had our Aruban friends translate that a few weeks ago and it basically says (I am not Aruban LOL) that "you are the person who took Natalee and now you have everyone thinking Aruba is bad"
(very bad translation but you get the basics)

And BTW...I think it was a "fake" post. I trailed that guys posts and it does not add up (Edwean).

This was translated by someone earlier on as saying:
You're the guy that has Natalee, how could you, i am proud of my aruba, now everybody thinks it is bad.
Klowe

I can understand those feelings, and I have a notion that there are many people on here who share them.

Will the desire to find out what happened to Natalee be stronger than the fear?

This is what I thought it said "You're the guy that have Natalee.  How could you?  Am proud of my Aruba. Now everybody thinking that (Aruba) is bad."  Just my opinion.

Oh, I see--a sort of homegrown conspiracy, instead of an island-politics conspiracy. If I were going to go with a conspiracy theory I'd choose the Lorenzo/drug world/underground parties one--there are a lot of elements that don't add up to me; I vascillate between that and an accidental death related to a date rape drug overdose. Of course, I prefer the first scenario because that leaves hope that Natalee is alive and able to be rescued. Believing Natalee's family and friends had anything to do with her disappearance is a bit far-fetched for me. I'd like to read what other monkeys come up with, though!

First I am so sorry for you....I can not imagine how this feels....((hug)))
I agree with you about putting the VDS's on the defensive immediately ....being called out of your house in the middle of the night and pounched upon (not knocking the Twitty group at all)....but if this were me I would have been on the defensive too.....in fact I'd be down right ANGRY.  

Sunny

Whether there is an iota of truth involved here or not, I do not know.

However, I do know how protective my parents were (I'm 55 now, so that's been a while).  I can all too readily envision them trying to put a good face on things if I had landed myself in a "scandalous" spot.

 Southern girls of a certain class are very protected still.

I actually did read it one night not too long ago.  That is another angle--but more confusion--ugh!

I also read that in the dutch msn that the dutch Marines stationed in Aruba are going to assist in the search. I think that is the contribution which is added by the Netherlands. Mind you that their job is is defending Aruba and the war against drugs.

All???...Calm...  8)
http://www.vcresearch.info/open/forums.asp?TopicId=4576&ForumId=70

I agree Karen.  This is just my opinion but there is such a difference between Natalee's Dad and her stepdad.  And this is just my gut - I cannot warm up to the stepdad.  And, yes, while VDS may have reacted as well - most people when attacked will fight back - it's an andreline thing - does not always put anyone in a postive light but sometimes it happens.  Does not make him guilty or innocent as we do not know.

Karen - my thoughts are with you in regards to your son.

:mrgreen: Thanx!! :whew: OK, I was  :shock:  b/c I was just talking to the branch Manager at AmSouth about Nat's Uncle being back in Aruba for the search.....

Not saying that I bought into it, but it was what was being discussed. And as far as Joran going to the states in a few months - so what? You never had anybody threaten your family, your mother, your brother, because of something you had done/been involved in. And I wasnt aware that the Witness protection program was "open" to foreign nationals. Put that all in the light that - they dont seem to trust us (U.S.)a whole h*ll of a lot..
...again, not saying I buy it, but it certainly has a "degree" of plausibilty..

It really doesn't have anything to do with the family except if there is an amsouth/family connection. The money launders seemed to have lost 10million in the deal, and Amsouth Investment Corp has dealing in Aruba and the Carribean.

Don't know if you've already seen this or not:
Found some info on Max Arends linked with Valentijns site

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=1CbMdSgjBODzZjGj

That's very true. I believe there's a limit to how far parents will go to protect their child's and family's reputation, but up to a certain point southern families care what things look like and how a scandal is perceived. Some of what the Twittys were doing may have been quality control--I can see them trying to protect the family's reputation at the beginning of this scenario, before they really knew what was going on.

At this point I think it goes without saying that they want their daugther back at any cost, regardless of what she was up to on the night she disappeared. (Please don't take that statement to mean that I'm blaming Natalee for anything that happened to her; sometimes I think if anyone posts that Natalee might have been drinking or otherwise engaged in questionable activities, people think the poster is blaming her for what happened. I'm just making the point that her parents and friends want her back no matter what, and reputations are mattering less as every day goes by).

Hey Kerin et al...have not had time to get up to date and am going to work soon.  Here is what I can add.

I just got off phone with Mickey John.
Greta was at his house today and he may be on tonight.
I asked him if deepak told him/said "I never shoulda lef her w/Joran"
HE SAID NO _ NEVER.
Deepak did say to him that he and Saish dropped NH and Joran off at the Marriot afer he lighthouse.  Then Deepak said he and Satish went home.
The whole thing he said about Holiday Inn was a lie that the VDS "family"
made up and asked Deepak and Satish to agree to.  As far as what Deepak meant by the VDS "family" he doesn't know if it includes "Tom Dick or Harry" to quote Mickey John.  Also Mickey did believe that Deepak was telling truth.  Deepak was sorry to have supported the family lie as it landed him in jail.
I may miss show..KERIN if u see it let me know? Thanx

And another clarification: in some european countries exists "de facto" two godfathers.
One is that related with the religious matters.
The other is the "civil" godfather appointed as witness of the birth in the "civil" registry. :wink:

You're kidding, right?  If there's 200+ men there, in prime physical and mental condition, why is Aruba well known as a drug point??

They must have other duties which have priority.

hey my sister and I were in Bermuda and we got along famously with the bar staff, especially one particular woman and she said I should take you out to where I go partying, [we were mostly hitting the tourist bars] and we were in our early 30's at that time and we said yeah cool let's go but she was the one who said, actually I'm just kidding, I think if I walked in with  two blonde blue eyed white women, it would be too dangerous for you, and we said aahh, and she said, yeah, sorry girls......now having gone to a particular bar in Barbados a few years ago, I understand what she was saying, I felt "molested", to the point I'm not sure I want to go back there.....actually come to think of it, we were in an after hours bar in Bermuda and that was freaky too, that and a British naval ship docked one night, but those guys were hilarious (Caribbean men must think all North American women are sluts or bumping and grinding strangers is a standard pick up technique,

 or in fact maybe it is a world wide perception that all North American women are easy, where would that come from??? sic

 I do remember when I went on a school trip to Italy, we first went to Sorrento which is a small resort town on the coast south of Rome, it's the jump off point to go to Capri, and after 6 pm, all the Italian girls were locked up in their houses and there were crowds of Italian men hanging out side our hotel, it was terrifying, and they were all saying do you want to go to bed with me, I was 15, I thought what a bunch of creeps but since their women are all locked up, I guess tourist babes were the only shot they had, oh and I speak too much, we all went to this disco where they had a nice presentation for our school etc and after words, they let in these guys, well I was 15, a naive 15, I'm dancing with this guy I just met and he is sticking his tongue in my ear and I'm like ew and I'm thinking oh I'm such a goody two shoes, because as soon as the song ended I ran to our table and away from this guy but I found every single other girl at my table had similar experiences and was equally disgusted, this was in 1976, oh lord, it is funny now but horrifying then, and in Rome we did "lose" one of our roomates only to have her stumble in just as we were about to confess to one of the teachers, she had met some Italian guy, but I digress.......

Just an experiment, readers:
Without checking back to see which kids the poster references, how do you feel about this post?

If it's Joran & co., are you furious?
If it's the Americans... how do you feel?

Not making a judgment call.  Just curious.

FOM...that's GREAT news!!!! And right in line with what we suspected, right???? Oh I hope you told Mickey HELLO from all of us (and that I wanted to give him a BIG hug!!).
See you tonight?

FOM, you rock!!!!!!   8)   And I hope you told him how much support he has from all of us!!!   :D

Some AMSOUTH LINKS:

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2003/12/22/daily12.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/insurance/2004-07-11-moorehead_x.htm

He asked me to give a shout out on his behalf.
He also just found out about Jorans godfather
 and said that was F***ED UP!!! :roll:

In regards of the twittys going to the vds home I understand he said it like this. You "edited"-absolut went out wit natalee and now tell ur where she is. Imagine when an arab guy stands at your door in the states and sayin hey you pigbellies. You neighter would stand open for discussiom

Please remember that the military doesn't do anything unless ordered to do it.  The local commander cannot arbitrarily decide to commit his forces to the search on his own accord.  It is the same way with the US military.  

Also keep in mind the the military is there to kill and blow things up...that what marines do.  If given orders they would probably search until they couldn't search anymore.  I'm sure they want to help all they can, but the orders/permission have to come down from the top...which by the way is a little ways away in a place called the Netherlands

who is Joran's godfather?

I have never hear that Jug or anyone called them A$$holes, is there a transcript of an interview or a link you have that this is fact?

My personal opinion is that private citizens have the choice to decide whether they want to talk to the news media at all.

In the case of public officials, they also have the choice, but their decision may carry greater consequences - especially if they are elected officials ;)

They also have the "fair game" vulnerability as public figures - if they choose not to talk to the press, that doesn't mean that the press is not going to speculate.

And while the press might speculate about private citizen kids, they might run into some consequences with advertisers, if they operate in a country where news is a business.

I have to admit though, that those opinions do not stop me from watching Geraldo, his hair, and all the other performers in the Fox circus, and as much as one can under such somber circumstances, enjoying the spectacular!

So do we know if or how Tom Twitty is related to Jug? If they are related, and if someone were out to hurt Tom Twitty, wouldn't they choose a more direct target?--someone closer to him than the step-daughter of a brother/cousin/etc.?

It is said that would be police commisoner van Straaten .
But i must add that american girl in  aruba stated yesterday that witout a doubt that this guy is a die hard police officer and would put his priority doing his job well. He even would arrest his own wife if he had to !

I hope Mickey is able to get his life back to normal, FOM. Is he working again? I will make sure to watch Greta (of course) and I do hope to see him. You mean he didn't give SM a plug while talking to Greta?  :lol:

Cancon, you crack me up with your Italy stories! Though I do remember a friend saying her backside was black and blue from Italian men pinching her the whole time she was there.

Question for all:
Joran was in a Texas Hold 'em tourny at the Holiday Inn that Sunday afternoon/night. Does anybody remember the hours of the tournament? I think it was 4-8:30 wasn't it?

Could the cousins have been the original target, how much time Joran spend with this group, if he was the plant. Possibly the plan ran out of time and the took the easier target.

gotta run for a bit, but 2 questions:

what's up with the story re natalie & costa rica & her mom calling her in as runaway?

who is the sango poster? i think there is some sort of msg in what he says.  

i think there is more to this than meets the eye.

i also can't understand the putdowns re the parenting of an almost 18 yr old male, hanging out, whether in bars &/ or casinos, on an island, his home,  where that is basically all the "excitement" there is but..

it is ok for parents to send an 18 yr old girl to a foreign place near south america & allow the same & it is ok.

duh...did i miss something?

when i first heard that nh went missing after getting in a car w/ 3 strangers i admit i had a less than approving opinion of what kind of girl she was.  but it wasn't too long ago on a trip to venezuela that i found myself alone in a hotel room w/ a charming native who obviously wasn't interested in becoming my next penpal.  the vacation mentality is easy to step into. what happens in aruba stays in aruba-right? unfortunately this has made for a less than sentimental memory.

ok, Kerin, you are gonna laugh at me...but, is mickey john the security guard? yall dont give me to much grief for not knowing  :oops:

Oh I see what you're saying. Forgive me for being a bit slow--I'm new to this theory (this is the first I've heard of it). Were other Twitty children/cousins in Aruba that week with the Mountain Brook students? How is Joran connected to the people who wanted to hurt Tom Twitty?

They never stopped.

LOL, yes. :wink:

Bendex , can you recieve also Nova tv in argentina?

That is a good question, like the searches are checking off search grids of Aruba so must we do with timelines....Here is an example...

RAMIREZ: OK, I know that Deepak was working that day. And normally, he works, like, until 11: 30. Depends how busy is the place because it's one man running that place. If he's on that shift, he have to close.

VAN SUSTEREN: At the Internet cafe.

RAMIREZ: At the Internet cafe. So depends how if it's busy. If they paid down (ph) for some hours and they're not finished, then he just wait on them, like, it don't make any difference for 10 minutes on those things. So I assessed, like, maybe 11: 30. Maybe he's finished 11: 30. So I don't know. He told me that Joran called him and asked him that he need a lift.

VAN SUSTEREN: From the home to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know what he told him, but he just said that, Deepak I need a lift, if you can give me a lift or — and then maybe he asked him where or whatever. And why Satish is with him, because he don't go with his car to work. He love his car so much, that if it's a scratch, is a war (ph) in this house. And so he leave his car home. And like, his brother keep contacting him, What time you can pick me up, you know, like...


..even the lightest ink writing is better then the best memory, or something like that .. anyways.. the Cybernet Cafe hours on Sunday are 2pm -10 pm.

Thanks Terry...LOL..and is he a fellow monkey?? :oops:

Ah, bendex, you making some kind of racial slur here? Are you implying americans don't want arabs coming to their doors? Or are you implying terrorist as in we don't want someone like an al qaeda terrorist coming to our door? And if so does that mean you're implying Americans are like terrorists to the Dutch on Aruba?

If my son had dated an arab girl and she disappeared, you betcha I'd understand an irate arab father banging on my door at 2 am. And don't forget the police were along for the ride, too. You'd have the nerve to get rude with the POLICE there? Or if you're Paul van der Sloot do you think you've got the police wrapped around your finger because you're in the justice department?

I was refering the blogger that was linked above.  It was the MB kids on the trip.  Also, if charges are made or the case goes to trial...obviously all of the details will emerge.  But before this is done, the public does not have to be made privy to any of the information.  I think we as Americans are used to knowing a lot more cases before they go to trial.

I took the comment to meant that instantly there would have been cultural differences.

Thanks Compananzi. I saw your note on the timeline link and corrected that. Which means the email must have been right because it said he got off at 10 pm that night. Which would fit with the cafe closing at 10. His mother must have forgotten that when she gave the interview since the other six nights it closed at 11.

Hmm...American television, soap-operas, movies, advertising?  I wonder.  And from the looks of all the pictures I've seen on line lately, there seem to be plenty of American girls/women doing their best to promote the idea of being sluts...

 :lol:  :lol: You could be talking about some of my exploits from foreign travels way back when...but as, you say, that's another story.

Lol, no, but thinking he may be soon... :wink:

Re: Your Quote

lol, there is a LOT of this going on in here.   Why cant people just look at the facts and go from there, without postulating far out scenairos?

Ok, back to this Paul Brough guy. First of all, we know he connects to prostitution in Aruba from his websites down there, so now after doing a little bit more sleuthing, I see he also owns a little boat tour company:

www.doaruba.com

Domain name: doaruba.com

Registrant Contact:
   Paul Brough
   Paul Brough (paul_brough@hotmail.com)
   Edited due to no phone number policy- ABSOLUT   Fax: none
   41627 Westmeath
   Clinton Township, MI 48038
   US

Administrative Contact:
   Paul Brough
   Paul Brough (paul_brough@hotmail.com)
  Edited due to no phone number policy- ABSOLUT
   Fax: none
   41627 Westmeath
   Clinton Township, MI 48038
   US

Technical Contact:

   Domain Administrator (domreg@ehost.com)
  Edited due to no phone number policy- ABSOLUT
Edited due to no phone number policy- ABSOLUT
   70 Blanchard Road
   Burlington, MA 01803
   US

Billing Contact:
   Paul Brough
   Paul Brough (paul_brough@hotmail.com)
  Edited due to no phone number policy- ABSOLUT
   Fax: none
   41627 Westmeath
   Clinton Township, MI 48038
   US

Status: Locked

Name Servers:
   ns1.brinkster.com
   ns2.brinkster.com

Creation date: 09 Jul 2004 10:10:26
Expiration date: 09 Jul 2006 10:10:26

Was a florida state law or a National law, that nowadays you can protect your self in your house and car and counter with equal  or deadly force when you feel threathened.   And you won't go to prison.

Dear Pinemeadows,

In fact as dutchie I am very proud of our marine corps. It is the oldest marine corps in the world. In defending aruba they are complying in with allover nato strategy , one of there jobs would be being a forward controllers base to protect the USA or keeping the USA informed of suspicous movements in there area wich might endanger the USA.
Further more they function as sparring partner of the U.S. Marines and train together .These guys take there job very seriously. It is not that a phonecall can order them to start looking as many other duties of them would be left unattended.

As the war on drugs , it used to be a big issue in the netherlands they used to capture around 120 smugglers a week in the netherlands coming from aruba. Imagine how I feel as a Dutch guy with such depressing numbers. The DEA, Aruba LE , and The dutch navy are working together since a few years in the war against drugs and the numbers of smuggeling have dropped significally.  

This IS news.  Thanks.  "I just got off the phone..."  Doesn't get any more first hand than that.  

.

1. Costa rica "runaway" NEVER HAPPENED. She had never run away.
2. Because Natalee and her friends were legally allowed to be in the casino and bars. Joran wasn't. He wasn't of age. And his father was a judge which meant he should have been even MORE willing to obey the LAW.
And here's a thought. Why didn't he do something like other underage kids do everywhere else? Go to the mall, go to a movie, read a book, do sports, go bowling, go swimming, play tennis. Whatever doesn't involve breaking a law and developing a not-so-savory habit of gambling.

Yes, Nikki! LOL And a very good friend of FOM's.

hey I ended up in a car with 4 guys once, in Detroit, we were there for back to back Tiger games,  I was with two other women and we met 6 guys from Windsor and somehow I ended up in the car with the 4 guys but they were cops so I figured I'll be OK and I was, my other 2 friends were in a car with 2 other guys [I thought we were all getting into one car] but then we got mixed up as to where everyone was going, we were lost for a while, getting lost in Detroit not a good idea, but I thought hey I'm with cops and in the process one of their friends got arrested, he was eh hem taking a leak in too public a place I guess and then got into a scuffle with the police officer,  which was hilarious, because again they were cops and their friend got arrested in  Detroit, the friend who got arrested was the only non cop he was a paramedic or something........yep what do they say, what goes on tour, stays on tour, so things happen in a blink of an eye

I am just saying that if someone comes to my door anxious and angry and calling me names . It would be very easy I would say have a nice day sir and close the door.

Just now from Riehl

Aruba Update 1
This is a quick update prior to a brief meeting, after which I hope to havea  fuller update posted between 5:30 - 6:00 PM.

Just a day after some were hopeful one piece of this mystery might fall into place as a result of search efforts, news so far today from Aruba hasn't been comforting.

The most troubling news now beginning to be discussed and said to have come from "reliable sources" close to the investigation point to a possible release of all suspects currently being held at the time of their next hearing, believed to be this coming Monday.

A report began on Fox and Friends this AM that a high level police official is Joran's Godfather could not be confirmed as yet. I questioned the report, as Joran was born in Hooland, not on Aruba - it has been suggested that while the formal term of Godfather may not apply, current information and a previous report of a high level police official having referred to Paul(us) v d Sloot as his "best friend" could indicate that Joran has benefitted from connections, especially during the early part of this investigation.

A last item for now, I have been told that Aruba is surrounded by radar, manned in three shifts with nine members comprising each shift - and despite persistent rumors of all island intrigue as regards Natalee Holloway are unfounded, as this radar would have documented such an effort. That report not officially confirmed.

More later.

Posted by Dan in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (0) | Track back (0)

http://www.riehlworldview.com/

In france excists a law when you find your wife in bed with another guy you can shoot him !

Why didn't he do something like other underage kids do everywhere else? Go to the mall, go to a movie, read a book, do sports, go bowling, go swimming, play tennis. Whatever doesn't involve breaking a law and developing a not-so-savory habit of gambling.[/quote]


Apparently his values are derived from his dad.  I read they were in the casino together on one night, I forget which.  But apparently , since the casino is the first place PVDS looked for his son when confronted by Natalees family, it must have been common practice for JVDS to be gambling underage.  I wonder why it is that PVDS would condone his underage son driving w/o a liscense, drinking underage, and gambling underage.  It was common knowledge on the island, (according to the retired polis) that JVDS did these things and to use his words "he was out of control".  If this is true, why did Paulos ever think he would be given the judgeship? To me, it doesnt say much for the reputation of elder VDS.

Riehl is now reporting that "relaible sources" are suggesting that Joran and the Kalpoe Bros. may be released next Monday. I have no idea how credible this is, but am passing it along.

I think a missing child transcends cultural differences. A missing person is a missing person.

No Hannie I saw it on an interview on the internet the nova website.

"Was a florida state law or a National law, that nowadays you can protect your self in your house and car and counter with equal or deadly force when you feel threathened. And you won't go to prison."

That is true in FL (don't think nationwide) BUT if you shoot someone who is, for example, attempting to enter your home you better make sure he lands "inside" the house when shot. I mean you can't just go around shooting people who set foot on your property.

I was just saying I didn't take it as racial. The cultral debate has been run into the ground IMO.

Yeah, crackerjack law enforcement. Hell of a tactic, don't search the last people to have seen her, let 'em childishly lie and implicate innocent people. Arrest THOSE people and waste time.

Some overgrown blockhead isn't going to tell me where's my kiD? Huh?
His sweat hog old man shuts him up....she's missing like a day at that time. I don't care if Geronimo and Capt. Ahab were beating down my door in Mandarin Chinese, I WILL HELP YOU FIND YOUR KID. This my friends is universal. Unless you are hiding a very dark sequence of events.

Joran, Joran, you are young. You can come out with a PHD or something. It's only like a 20 year bit. You gotta give it up, big guy, there's no life for you otherwise, you don't want to end up a sweaty rat like Pater do you?

And oh yeah, don't you ever., ever touch even a toe on U.S. soil, or your Mommy will really have something to cry about.

True. But I guess as long as he was getting away with it, why change?

Hopefull, this is as credible as their report of the "hit" by the dogs yesterday afternoon....

"sweat hog" lmao.  Great post.

Not sure what you mean by this becuase the "hit" was verified to be true.

I guess my thoughts were down this line, .... If the elder VDS knew of his underage childs shennanigans, and he did not seem to care, even though he worked in the law enforcement area... Then, he must be somewhat "connected" in the LE area.  With that connection, who knows what papa VDS can "make disappear".

Apparently his values are derived from his dad.  I read they were in the casino together on one night, I forget which.  But apparently , since the casino is the first place PVDS looked for his son when confronted by Natalees family, it must have been common practice for JVDS to be gambling underage.  I wonder why it is that PVDS would condone his underage son driving w/o a liscense, drinking underage, and gambling underage.  It was common knowledge on the island, (according to the retired polis) that JVDS did these things and to use his words "he was out of control".  If this is true, why did Paulos ever think he would be given the judgeship? To me, it doesnt say much for the reputation of elder VDS.[/quote]


Apparently the drinking a gambling laws are not strict.
When I was growing up in Chicago in the 70's the drinking laws were not strict either. I started to go to bars when I was 17, the drinking age than was 19. Sometimes I got carded sometimes not. It didn't manor I had fake Id's. Most of the time we did not get carded.

Driving laws must be stricter, it's seem everyone drove Joran around, nothing mentions he was driving.

Okay guys fellow monkeys.

I am gonna split, if not my possesive Argentinian girlfriend will put me on afection diet . " i spent more time with you guys then with her "

Nice talking to you all and have a nice day .

I just saw the interview on Nove tv with the Van der Sloots


It`s a lot to write here literally what Paul said,so I hope that anyone dutch has seen it also and can translate a little

But a few things he said were;

He was`nt suspended..he ask for a leave of abscence because he said first I`m a father and then an officer of the law And he did want to avoid that people thought that there was something to cover beecause he works there

He told the policeofficers who came with bth and jug that night, that he picked up joran at 11
so not 4.00!

He`s a substitute judge so not a judge.

The only thing he said to the boys was don`t panick stick to your story,and he tried to explain the procedures to them b/c he suspected they come from witnesses to suspects, b/c he knows how the law works.


I`ll go and look at my vcr again to try and come with some more...

Here we go again

The drinking underage / driving underage (how do we know he did?) / gambling underage... you don't need to be a "judge's" son to get away with that.

Because trust me, the jails would be full to bursting.

I'm almost afraid to ask....do we know the name of his tour boat(s)?

Then I stand corrected. I never heard about it again and it sounded/seemed like the whole thing got dropped.
So then what was the outcome of the hit?
thanks.

"Was a florida state law or a National law, that nowadays you can protect your self in your house and car and counter with equal or deadly force when you feel threathened. And you won't go to prison."

KerinTX replied:

That is true in FL (don't think nationwide) BUT if you shoot someone who is, for example, attempting to enter your home you better make sure he lands "inside" the house when shot. I mean you can't just go around shooting people who set foot on your property.



Kerin, your comments were true until the 2005 Fl legislative session when new - and contoversial - legislation was passed.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050427-014730-6497r.htm

How can they possibly do this with all the lies they have told?

<<Was a florida state law or a National law, that nowadays you can protect your self in your house and car and counter with equal or deadly force when you feel threathened. And you won't go to prison.>>


What would qualify as "equal" force to match a blaring car horn?  Something tells me that a sniper from the bedroom window would be excessive.

From what I understand, the prosecutor is from Holland.  Greta said last night that the prosecutors are sent to Aruba from Holland for 4 year terms.  Releasing the father, PVDS, was a slap in the prosecutorial face.  It essentially said, publicly, that the prosecutor's evidence, although accepted by Judge No. 1, was just not enough, according to Judge No. 2 (wonder why they brought in a different judge?  Judge No. 1 must not have been making the right calls, eh?)

If they release the 3 suspects on Monday, wouldn't that be an all-out, in-your-face insult to the prosecutor and her office?  Don't tell me there aren't politics involved here.  Wonder what the Dutch agency who sends the prosecutors every four years will say?  Interesting.  Gee, maybe that's what it will take to get the Netherlands involved in this -- a real slap-in-the-face and stay out of our money-laundering, corrupted little island, please.

Hi Arubagirl!  Got a question for you...do you know who this person is?
http://www.mrpinkproductions.com/worldofpink.htm

Windriders (Windriders are 17' trimarans that can sail 5 adults)

<<The most troubling news now beginning to be discussed and said to have come from "reliable sources" close to the investigation point to a possible release of all suspects currently being held at the time of their next hearing, believed to be this coming Monday.>>


I guess we can expect an eviction of the Holloways and the Twittys by Bastille Day.  If only Natalee's godfather ran the hotel...

No, I don't, klaassend. I'm sorry, but what in the hell?

Mr Pink, LMFAO.

Very interesting I must say.

I am gonna sign up to see what happens...  :wink:

As far as Aruba is concerned, I have come to regard the term "reliable source" as an oxymoron of the HIGHEST order.

I hope more details will be forthcoming about the radar! That would indicate that removing Natalee from the island or putting her into the water would be very difficult. But one question...

WHO IS IN CONTROL OF THE RADAR SYSTEM...

I completely agree with you about the other blogger but I do not agree with you the privacy issue.  Yes, the media has certainly put pressure on the case and brought worldwide attention.  Just because of this, I don't believe that Natalee friends and tripmates should be considered "hiding" something if they don't want to speak to national press.

This could fly for either Joran or Natalee "sides."  Everything that people connected to the case know has been relayed to the authorities.  Some of this information may be vital to the case and hurtful if released to the media.  Trust me, I want to know everything I can, just like everyone else.  But we can't demand people talk to the media or insist the govt give the media all the facts of the case.  However, if they are holding things back from the Twittys...that is different entirely.

Okay, hu? How do people know wether or not they're going to be released if the prosecutor wants to keep them in (I'm guessing) and the judge hasn't even reviewed the case yet.

I think this is Mr Pink:
http://www.letsgoredwings.com/page2.html

Uhm okay.

Aruba Girl.. first I want to thank you for the great job you have done!!
second.. somewhere along the line it was mentioned that truth serum is legal in Aruba? SOmeone that couldnt be on the forum long wanted me to ask if I saw you on!!  Is that true?? Is it Legal??

greetings and salutations... hope your day is a good one before everyone jumps on you with questions... :roll:

I wouldn't doubt this a bit.  If there are no forensics and there's no body this is inevitable. However, it seems a little soon for it too happen.  I suppose adding another 60 days make the bar a  little higher.

I feel bad for arubagirl having to answer so many stupid questions.

arubagirl, this is another site of Mr Pinks (I crack up whenever I type"Mr Pink")

http://www.guide2paradise.com/

Anybody interested in the interview the vds gave or not? Just asking so I can and try to translate some of it.... :wink:

Yes Ma'am, pls.  :wink:

I'd love to read it...but, if it's a ton of work and there's no more interest than me, don't do it.  Actually, I think we should keep an archive of all the important interviews and transcripts here somewhere.

I would be very interested in reading more of the interview. Thank you for translating it!

How did this guy, Paul Brough as "Mr. Pink", get involved in this forum?  Where did I miss the connection?

Absolutely not!

WOW... if I was a dog then that is a HIT :wink:

I just saw an EXCLUSIVE interview with Paul and Anita van der Sloot on Dutch television! Some interesting details...

- Paul van der Sloot is NOT a suspect anymore; he doesn't want the Dutch media to call him "Paul van der S.", he wants them to use his full last name.
- Paul doesn't want to see his family as the victim. Natalee's family is the victim. He hopes Natalee will be found.
- Anita thinks Natalee is still alive
- On why he was arrested: Paul told the POLICE that he picked up Joran at the Mc Donald's @11PM. But according to Natalee's family the first time they met Paul, Paul said he picked up Joran @4AM. There's also a version that says Paul picked up Joran AND Natalee @4AM. Not true, according to Paul. Natalee's family must misinterpretated his words.
- Natalee's family arrived in Aruba, went to the police office immediately. At 2AM, Paul was sleeping, Natalee's family went to the house of the Van der Sloots. Natalee's mother wants to speak with Joran. But Joran was not home (Paul didn't know that), he was at the casino. Father called son at his mobile. At 3AM Joran was home; Natalee's family interrogated him. Paul told him not to tell them the details, because he was not sure of their "status"/who they were. "You should tell the police what happened".
- Joran also lied to his parents (Holiday Inn story), according to Paul. But now they can explain the reason why he made up the Holiday Inn story, because he was "in panic", etc.
- Joran had sex with Natalee in the car, according to Paul ("vrijen").
- Joran met Natalee at the Holiday Inn. Joran was playing poker ("Free Poker tournament", or something). Natalee invited him to go to Carlos and Charlie's. Joran first didn't want to go.
- Paul IS a judge. A temporary judge. He knows the authorities very well. Paul van Straaten, Marianne Croes. It was very strange to see how his friends/ex-collegues arrested him.
- Paul admits his son is in big trouble, because he made up that Holiday Inn-story.
- Paul first had the idea that he convinced Natalee's mother that his family is not the "key".
- Paul first didn't want to do interviews, because he thinks the most important thing is to find Natalee. His family's problem is just a "side-issue". But now he feels he HAS to say something, because his name is in the American media all the time. He doesn't like the whol American media circus. He thinks the main-issue should be finding Natalee and finding the truth.
- Eh...I think that's a short summary of what he and Anita said in front of Nova cameras....

There is no connection you didnt miss anything.

Yes... please. :D

Why would the jails be bursting?

What they do here is when you enter the bar/casino you are ask for a id before serving that person. If they cannot prove age they ask you to leave or you are only serve non alchol. Minors are not allow in casinos even with parents.

Just a comment not ment to start anything.

I myself appreciate your comments and news on what going on.

I have been to Aruba about 10 years ago, it was the only island I felt safe to drive around on my own.

someone, I disagree to an extent

I look at it this way, what if Natalee had disappeared in Mountainbrook Alabama

you can be sure all her male friends could be potential suspects and all the people at that bar would be thoroughly questioned and investigated by the cops

it is fair game

what if we find out the Holloways or the friends have been hiding something, something significant in relation to this case

then they'd be no better than PDVS wouldn't they?

sometimes truth is way stranger than fiction

look at the bugged eye Runaway Bride, look at the Mark Hacking case - yeah the husband is always the first suspect but man, who'd believe anyone would make up that kind of elaborate double life, no wonder he cracked and killed his wife

because how would killing his wife in any way lessen the fact his lies were all exposed, a thinking person would realize killing her would just expose your lies to a wider audience.....

hi hannie, did you post it in dutch?  i notice they are now putting dutch up on tha main page.

The jails would be full, because many young people drink underage, drive underage and gamble underage.

Okay, the driving underage....maybe not so much as the other two, but the drinking and the gambling.... There is no systematic checking.

and speaking of the runaway bride, did you notice we never found out about her other incidences of similar behaviour until after she was exposed.........

her family is sitting there boohooing on camera meanwhile they knew she has this kind of history......

Yup.
Run John run.

I thought "vrijen" was a word which could mean anything from kissing to actual sex.  Did he specify in english that it was intercourse?

I've heard that Joran did specify this, which is believed by many as a means to explain away rape charges if there is forensic evidence found.

But if "vrijen" was the only word used, do we know Joran actually said this?

Okay...I'm confused.

Each time the amigos have gone before the judge, the prosecutor has presented a little bit more evidence against them/re their involvement in this case....according to M. Croes, that's what it takes to hold them.

Now on Monday, all of a sudden, with no OTHER suspects at this point, anyway, that evidence becomes what?   Much ado about nothing?  It goes "poof" and disappears?  It suddenly on Sunday night becomes unbelievable, in the literal sense?

I don't see how at that point they can be released unless they are going to go down a different path, with different suspects...and I just don't see that happening.

This whole thing is just weird - Steve Croes "apparently" lied about the others, not knowing they had changed the script.  Yet he too is out, and said he will have no consequences for his tale.

I hate to think about what kinds of skanky viruses and spyware are getting installed onto your PCs everytime someone clicks on one of Pink's links.

Thank you Gerben..! Hope I didnt rattle cages here.. but I was asked to ask this question !!  Thanks again!

 

NL, this is great.  Is there a NOVA link for the Dutch speakers?

I agree...if you click those links, better run it right away.  MalWare is more like it...[/quote]

You said "what if WE find out."  That is what I am trying to get across.  What WE know means nothing.  What the media knows means nothing.  What the investigators know means everything.

ALL OF THE PEOPLE ON THE TRIP have spoken to authorities.  Whether these individuals want to talk to US  and the MEDIA is completely up to them.  Yes, it is very aggravating to not know more...but just because we don't know everything that the authorities know doesn't mean we should imply people are hiding things.  The people that have hidden evidence or changed stories were all taken in by the police.

Although this is a high interest case, we as the general public are not ENTITLED to any part of the case until people are charged and a trial is undergone.

The interview was in Dutch. Paul only used the word "vrijen", but I think that's the same as "neuken"? if it was just kissing, Paul wouldn't have used the word "vrijen".
"Neuken" is not a word that a judge will use in public...

Ahhhh. Good point.

thanks nl you`re a lot quicker then me.... :lol:

In response to PVDS saying he is NOT a suspect anymore, the spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office made it very clear and was very emphatic last night that he most definately IS still a suspect.  She was not so emphatic about SC.

It is probably a joint operation between NATO & DEA.  I'm sure it covers most all boat and air traffic through the area.  

Don't bet your life you'll ever see any radar data made public.  I'm sure the authorities are asking for information for a specific time frame but they too will get little specific information...just enough to to their jobs.

These two are apparently "clear" but that "doaruba.com" have a potential threat so it's unsafe to go there.

Is there a reasonably polite Dutch word for sexual intercourse?

vrijen:  1 court, go out with, neck,  go courting 2. make love source wolters nederlands engels

i am so glad the dutch press is on this story.  the locals understand dutch press.  maybe this will build a fire under the dutch govt.

come kids drink underage all over the world, esp kids that look older,

the gambling, well I know in Canada they are very strict about that, they do card everyone but then we haven't had casinos that long and hello, kids can get good fake ID, just like terrorists and other criminals can and do all the time, the other thing with Canadian casinos, they are so crowded they don't mind turning people away, if they weren't so crowded you might be more "accomodating"

gee my friend and I had our own scam before photo ID was mandatory, see they raised the drinking age to 19 in Ontario after I turned 18 so I was allowed to drink, but my best friend was 18 and couldn't drink legally, so I used to give her all my ID, except my age of majority card, because they did check diligently when the law first came in, now they don't care as much, I would go in first with my age of majority card only, luckily they never looked at my name which is unique, just the picture and birthdate, I would go to the ladies washroom and wait, my friend would wait about 5 minutes and then go in with a crowd of other people, then meet me in the can......worked all summer, LOL

but come on if the bouncers all know Joran or his dad is a big customer, they might turn a blind eye, how many times do minors get thrown out of Aruban casinos or turned away I wonder.......

I read on Dan's site that there has been some vandalism at the Van der Sloot's home.....have any of our Aruban posters heard anything about that??

Also anything about the TXES today.  They did confirn that 2 dogs got hits yesterday at the same place...the pond or whatever that is..and Tim said it had not been cleared as of last night....I am assuming that it has not been thoroughly checked......Tim also said that even if they had found something they may not bring anything up right away because of the press.....now that's SAD that they have to resort to that.  He also said they were going to being in some different equipmet...but the darn phone rang and I didn't hear the rest of it.  Did anyone hear it?

Sunny

I realize I will get probably some negative reactions on this post, but I like to make something clear. It has erverything to do with this article on Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160884,00.html.

This day the government of Aruba called the government of The Netherlands begging for help as you can read on Fox News. No comment on that. The reason why they did that, is slightly different what Fox News reported.

- The fact is that all this media attention is 'somewhat' out of control. The Aruban government is completly stunned about all the articles of the media.
- Unfortunatly Fox News does not cover the whole thing about the legal system of Aruba and/or The Netherlands. Many persons are stuck with dozens of questions. Fox News does not answer them for you and you will be left with the idea the legal system fails or doesn't make sense.
- Fox News repeatedly spreaded some lies about Aruba. Aruba now seems to be the most scariest place on earth. In fact, Aruba is - like many places in the Caribbean - a very safe place. You can check several US websites that will confirm that.
- There are now millions of speculations about the suspects. Speculations about them or the circumstances will not help NH back nor does it help to solve this case.

Aruba does not produce any drugs. Instead, Columbia uses Aruba (and also Curacao) to transport their drugs to many places. The Aruban, Dutch and US government actively work together to fight against drugs. The US government has an counterdrug aircraft located on Aruba (check DEA website for details: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/03014/03014.pdf).

Please do respect the people on Aruba and the police as they work almost 24/7. And yes, they do feel an enormous pressure to solve the disappearence of NH.

The interview is not online YET. It will be put online tomorrow (maybe for the Americans that's tonight) here:
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?cfid=37705936&cftoken=12132316&ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=3540

kok used vrijen, ap's first dispatch from the island on the case said they had sex.

Tim was talking about some kind of radar or sonar equipment for the water on the rougher sides of the island, the sideways sonar won't work well in those areas?

"Vrijen" is the polite word for sexual intercourse.

Build a fire to do what?

I don`t think "vrijen" don`t necessarily mean intercourse. A lot of people in the netherlands using the word 'vrijen'also for kissing and hugging or fondling a little :wink:

In the infamous Deepak e-mail, "he" says:

"....when I looked in the back mirror my friend and Natalee were kissing and touching (his hands etc was in her blouse but nothing nude or against natalees will)..."

IF, I repeat, IF this e-mail is legitimate in any context, would this kind of fooling around (making out/feeling her up/2nd base,etc) be construed as 'vrijen'?

Im going to say that maybe the release of the boys at this stage of the game assuming there isnt much evidence might be a good thing, it might open the doors to them making another mistake or saying something to someone incriminating, or doing something while surveiled.

Yes Scott, that could be..that is what I mean

Sorry, this was supposed to be posted in RBN 07/07/05.

No, I don't expect Greta to be interviewing any surveillance radar operators... not in our lifetime... but this does at least say that any clandestine activities could be ruled out by the powers-that-be behind the scenes. The FBI/DEA could have a way of at least suspecting that Natalee was not taken off the island. I had a feeling this was the case. I hope so.

I think she is being held there somewhere by some unknown party. But Joran is involved and culpable. Bank on it.

"Oh... when I said 11PM, I meant 4AM... or was it the other way around...."

Righhhht.

Justice will be served.

I dont believe the sex in the car because evidently these guys didnt even like their car to get dirty.  No way a guy obsessive about his car is going to let intercourse happen in the back seat.  

If the deed already happened then there would be no reason for them to go to the mariott beach afterward.  Joran would have gotten what he wanted and that would be the end of it.

Either the dad is again trying to cover for Joran in case evidence is found that he raped her, or joran made the rape cover all by himself.  Maybe the father really doesnt know.

Sex in the car can easily be verified by the people driving that car.

This is assuming Mr VDS meant intercourse in that interview and not just kissing.

Hi All~

There are some reports (not sure from where) over at the Riehl website that the Texas team did not go out and search today?  Anyone hear anything about this?

Thanks~
J

That's what I thought too.
But maybe I should correct myself:
Paul himself didn't say he was not a suspect anymore. The reporter said he was not a suspect anymore ("First let to clarify this. It's not like we don't respect his privacy. Paul doesn't want the Dutch media to call him "Van der S.", because he's not a suspect anymore. He wants NOVA to call his full name").

And ONE more interesting detail: according to the reporter, Paul and Anita don't like the way how the police interrogate their son. They are worried about the tactics of the Aruban police. The "Zaanse methode" (an interrogation technique) is a technique that is not allowed in the Netherlands anymore. But in Aruba the police still use that technique (that means there are also differences between the Dutch and the Aruban system: the Aruban system is BASED on the Dutch system, but there are differences).

HUH?

Again,,,,the MB kids have talked to the media...

I lurk a lot...I have seen ON THIS FORUM,,things repeated that were just off a little,,and I am sure not on purpose,,but the way they saw it.. Then it got repeated as the GOSPEL..It gets to be funny,,you can ask 5 people who saw a person 10 min earlier,,and get different responses..

Sorry,,,if Joran's friends are talking,,and I am sure somebody else saw them,,,then please quit hitting on the MB kids because I see them almost every day on local TV...The FBI has talked to all the kids per DASH.....................................kk

Good point.  The words "eleven" and "four" sound a lot alike in English. It could happen to anyone.

Perhaps the screaming girl on the beach was the result of joran's actions? That is if that rumor is correct.

WTF???  Obviously i missed something............... :roll:

The car wasn't all that big and there's even less room in the backseat. Joran's 6'5" and there are 4 people in the car -- i just don't see how he'd have room to have sex in the car.  I bet he couldn't even move his legs. They were probably crammed up against the back of the front seat.

Uhhhhhhhh,
Oh, nevermind...

I`ts an interview of about 25 minutes and the only thing that some people read is the word "vrijen"...hmmm


I`m glad that I saw finally the family of Joran talking and hearing there story, b/c the only thing we heard is from the msm of the US. And by the way I thought he looks like a real genuin and softspoken person to me also!

Frank & Goon - not meaning to start anything here but...how many languages do you speak fluently?  How often do you actually use those other than English?

Uhhhhhhhh,
Oh, nevermind...

This post was meant to be a response to the "sink the island" post...

It was not the only word read it was the only word read that didnt jive with a factual story.  A disclaimer was made that if vrijen can mean kissing then the theory was out the window.  But virjen meaning sex in a little car - sorry sell crazy someplace else.

[
And ONE more interesting detail: according to the reporter, Paul and Anita don't like the way how the police interrogate their son. They are worried about the tactics of the Aruban police. The "Zaanse methode" (an interrogation technique) is a technique that is not allowed in the Netherlands anymore. But in Aruba the police still use that technique (that means there are also differences between the Dutch and the Aruban system: the Aruban system is BASED on the Dutch system, but there are differences).[/quote]

Can you explain this method to us??

Any word on the searchers today?  Can someone please update me?  Been at work this afternoon and couldn't check in much...

What Factual story was that?

Come on already...Sex in the car? There is not even a trace of her DNA in the car. Not a hair, a skin cell, fluids, nothing. I have a hard time believing that they even have the right vehicles.

We have been over this so many times it makes my head spin.  The statements from the brothers said specifically that they were kissing and fondling in the back seat. The same thing was said in the email.  Do you guys really think that Satish and Deepak were just going to sit in the car while Joran and Natalee went at it?

edit: it has been explained before that vrijen (or however you spell it) can have a wide variety of connotations including what the brothers said went on in the car.

Reasons why he was arrested, according to himself:
- 11PM and 4AM
- because the police thinks he taught Joran, Deepak and Satish how to lie

Paul's reaction:
- He has never said he picked up Joran at 4AM. He has always said I picked up Joran at 11PM (Mc Donald's). For some reason the FAMILY told the police that he said to the family that he picked up Joran at 4AM.
And he also said there's a story that he picked up Joran and NATALEE at 4AM (he didn't say where that story comes from).
- He didn't told the kids to lie. Yes, when he had the feeling that the 3 kids might be arrested, he explained the kids the procedure and how to stay calm.

That's why I think it would be dangerous to release the three suspects at this time.

There should be 24-hour, round-the-clock surveillance of Deepak, Satish, and especially Joran; not to see if they further incriminate themselves, but for their protection.

There are many who have an intense visceral reaction to this case, and would feel no sorrow if these three young men disappeared forever.

Based on all that has been revealed thus far, I would like to see them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but there's nothing gained by further compounding an already tragic situation.

A little car didn't stop anybody when I was 17. Lol.  :lol:

 I hate to put out bad PR about Alabama, but guess what?  There're a lot of young underage people drinking here too~ :lol: I don't have nephews for nothing!

I agree, a guy this kid's size is not going to be "gettin' it on" in the backseat of a car, unless the Kalpoe kid drives a feakin' limo!  The only thing that would make sense in this aspect is if he tried, she refused and then things got nasty and "something bad happened" IN THE CAR???  Yet another speculation, sorry :oops:

This day the government of Aruba called the government of The Netherlands begging for help as you can read on Fox News. No comment on that. The reason why they did that, is slightly different what Fox News reported.
I am so glad they have time to call the Netherlands, were they calling because they are worried about their Island being shown in a bad light?  Why don't they call to get an o.k. for more help with the investigation and search?  I guess they don't have time for that.  Did they ever get the red tape taken care of the get the Military on the island to aid the TX group in the search.  They probably did not have time for that either.

- The fact is that all this media attention is 'somewhat' out of control. The Aruban government is completly stunned about all the articles of the media.   The Aruban government completely stuns me with their bungling also.

- Fox News repeatedly spreaded some lies about Aruba. Aruba now seems to be the most scariest place on earth. In fact, Aruba is - like many places in the Caribbean - a very safe place. You can check several US websites that will confirm that.  

Ask the two security guards about lies being spread.  I have a strong suspicion that they would have been found guilty by now if not for the Holloway family and the media and the LE would be bragging about how efficient they were.  Had a crime on the island (almost never happens) and we tied it up quickly and efficiently.

Well boohoo!  I am sure Beth Holloway Twitty is worried about the tactics of THEIR son. Turnabout is fair play.  You mess with their daughter, you get interrogated!   :twisted:

Can you elaborate on some specific interrogation techniques that you refer to as the Zaanse methode?

Thanks.

Regret previous overstated post. Please excuse, I was lying to protect a friend (a punk) but I have a big heart. Am I a hero now? Where is my cake please? Get it?

Have the results been released to the public? :shock:

Nancy Drew.. to answer your earlier question.. no new news about the search..my pc is goig haywire.. we are getting a bad storm right now.. and I think the power may go out soon.. ughhh..

Can you explain this method to us??[/quote]

Zaanse method means torture.