Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Just got an update from Peaches husband!!!!!  Give me a second and I'll post it in the Peaches thread.

Great news!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2788.msg374826#msg374826

Thank You Klaas for posting the update on Peaches....Wonderful News Indeed... ::MonkeyDance::

Posted on: 12:47 am, June 07, 2005

on the carlosandcharlies dot com webpage, in the Shout Only box, there is a shoutout from some detectiveghyno that states "look at the site of the old idian(sic) reservation"


The shout is clearly intended in context of the missing girl.


To be taken seriously? Maybe not, but noteworthy. Anyone familiar w/ an old indian reservation on the island?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was this also a Shango message?

From todays' Diario-aruba.com    Poor Babies...NOT...

Something about Aruba suffering from *negative* publicity...hope some Monkey can give us the Cliff Notes version translated...TYA  Destiny ;-)

 Loke Minister Wever a haci contra Alci Acosta ta un acto bochornoso       PDF        Print        E-mail
Friday, 18 April 2008

ORANJESTAD (AAN) – Den entrevista cu nos redaccion e Abogado mr. Milko Baiz, a elabora tocante e sucedido cu e artista Colombiano Alci Acosta, ken despues cu no a haya permiso pa haci su presentacion na Aruba, a worde stroba pa e abandona nos pais for di e minister concerni cu extranheria, ken pa colmo kier a cobre impuesto.

E abogado a comenta cu berdaderamente tabata tin un concierto planea na Westin Hotel, cu e cantante Alci Acosta, pero na ultimo ora e permiso di trabao a worde nenga. Anto como cu e plannan tabata haci caba pa e bin Aruba, e cantante hunto cu su señora a keda Aruba pa pasa e fin di siman como turista y Diasabra anochi, un radioemisora local a dicidi pa organiza un evento di homenahe pa dicho cantante.

Esaki a tuma lugar sin cu a cobra entrada pa e evento y nan a duna e artista un plaquette como gradicimento pa su carera artistico. El a gradici e gesto door di a toca y canta un par di cantica di su repertorio. Esey ta locual a sosode, unda cu e no a traha, por lo tanto no a ricibi ningun pago pa loke el a haci.

E mester a sali for di Aruba Diadomingo pasa y na Imigracion di Aeropuerto nan a bise cu pa orden di e Minister di Asuntonan di Imigracion Booshi Wever, e no por sali for di Aruba pasobra e a traha y ta debe belasting. Nan no a dune nada por escrito.

Su dialuna despues mr. Baiz a encamina e proceso pa wak kico a sosode y aclareando cu ningun momento e cantante aki a traha na Aruba cu mester a debe belasting. Asina a check cu DIMAS y cu Oficina di Belasting, cual instancianan a bisa cu nan no tin nada.

E ora ey e cantante a bay aeropuerto den oranan di atardi pa e sali, nan a lague pasa pero ora e tabata bayendo pa e porta di salida di su aerolinea, Imigracion a pare y bise cu orden di minister ta cu e no mag di bay.

Abogado Baiz e splica cu locual ta hopi remarcable den e caso aki ta cu e minister cu a dune orden no tin ningun autoridad legal pa duna un orden asina, pero ta otro mandatario, entre otro Minister di Husticia, ta esun cu ta encarga cu e parti di Imigracion mientras cu e minister encarga cu asuntonan di DIMAS no tin autoridad pa esaki.

Kiermen, e orden tabata duna completamente ilegal for di un minister no autoriza y na di dos lugar, no tabata tin ningun motibo pa detene of secuesta e persona aki, pasobra esey ta locual a sosode. Baiz a splica cu ora un persona kier sali for di Aruba pa bay su pais y e ta worde retene y nenga su salida sin motibonan husto pa haci esey, e ta worde SECUESTRA.

Fuera di esey, e cantante a perde un afspraak hopi importante cu e tabata tin na Embahada Mericano pa e haya su Visa ya cu e tin contratonan pa cumpli cu nan na Merca. Abogado Baiz a señala cu tabata un acto hopi bochornoso di un minister cu a haya informacion incorecto y no a bay investiga prome cu duna un orden di tal indole, siendo cu e no tabata ni autoriza pa haci esey.

Abogado Baiz a duna di conoce cu mester a entrega un Kort Geding y net prome cu esaki a tuma lugar, a worde ricibi un yamada di Departamento Huridico bisando cu nan a reconsidera e decision y a avisa e minister y esaki a dicidi pa laga e cantante sali.

Abogado Baiz tin entendi cu tabata tin hopi publicidad negativo pa Aruba relaciona cu e asunto aki. E persona aki ta hopi popular den su pais y e tin hopi conexion, y aunke mr. Baiz no a papia cune ainda kico ta e pasonan legal cu e ta bay tuma, e sa si cu e cantante ta considerando “un ke otro”.

My first thought on this was Arikok National Park.  But then I found this so I'm not so sure.  I couldn't find a true reservation.  The Indianas seem to have been scattered.

Approximately 1000 years ago a different group of people established themselves on the island. These people are named Dabajurans after the "type site" Dabajuro on the mainland (West Venezuela, Falcon State). They named themselves Caquetios, which name is used most of the time. They came from Northwestern Venezuela. The period in which they inhabited the island (1000 to 1515 A.D.) we call the Ceramic Period.

The Caquetios were farmers and cultivated maize and manioc. They lived in villages (100-150 people) situated in Santa Cruz, Sabaneta, Tanki Flip, Tanki Lender and Parkietenbos. All villages were constructed near fresh water gullies (rooi) and near soil suitable for cultivation.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/musea/archeological.html

Maybe here :?

In 1499, the Spanish explorer, Alonso de Ojeda laid claim to the territory for Spain's Queen Isabella.  Legend has it that de Ojeda named Aruba Oro Hubo, meaning there is gold there.  However, the Spanish did not find the gold they sought, and because they found the climate too arid for cultivating crops, they made little use of the island.  For the next 150 years, Aruba became a retreat for pirates and buccaneers who preyed on the ships carrying Indian treasures back to the Old World.  The ruins of an old pirate castle still remains at Bushiribana, on the northeast coast of the island.

There was another interesting thing at the above site.  Made me think of all those that said you couldn't bury anyone, on the island and the four boys and a shovel:

The Pre-ceramic Indians buried their dead in family groups under large pieces of limestone. One such family group was found in a cave at Canashito, while many family groups (in total ca. 70 dead) were excavated at Malmok. Their well-organized burial tradition is probably a reflection of their small-scale, well-organized society.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/musea/archeological.html

I would think, if you can bury a whole family, you could bury one girl.

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/aruba.htm

Site refers to:  Caquetios Indian and Arawak Tribe

Quote from: ******* on April 17, 2008, 07:02:37 PM

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have also been very uncomfortable with Patrick's video.  In hindsight, I think that most of us probably doubted the video or we wouldn't have continued to search for answers in this forum.  The scenario was nice and neat.  Everything was tied into a nice little package and the world was told what everyone wanted to hear.  This video was an attempt to officially close the case in the eyes of the world, with Beth sitting right there as the queen of the opposition.  Joran walked away with a slap on the wrist and rehab for his addiction problem.  Even the Kalpoes were exhonerated so that they could sue Dr. Phil.

I'm glad that we have continued our quest for the correct answers.  I am glad that if nothing else, Beth should be able to receive monetary compensation from the Sloots based on the contents of the video.  We all know that anything Beth gets won't be coming from the Sloots, but rather from the other corrupt perpetrators.  Go for it Beth, and get everything you can. These people have made your life a living hell.

I'm glad that we caught on to Patrick.  I wonder how much ATAHA paid him for his email asking us not to boycott Aruba?  I hope that we have completely ruined any possibility of success for this book of his.  I hope that nobody buys it because it's a "gold brick" (Rob- the old definition).  Patrick would not be ignoring our email responses right now if his motivation for no boycott had been a personal one. I believe that this entire charade was created when it was learned that Texas EquuSearch was headed back to Aruba.  This tells me we're probably getting close.

Right now, I have a few big questions that I am seeking answers for.
1.  What is the Peter DeVries connection?  If he's involved in the charade, I hope he     
     loses all credibility in Europe and the world. Otherwise, I hope he rips Patrick and
     Aruba apart.
2.  What is the status of Beth's civil suit? 
3.  What can we do to increase pressure for Joran to be arrested for at least involuntary
     manslaughter and illegal disposal of a body?
4.  What can we do to help TES get back to Aruba?
5.  How can we increase the boycott and put even more economic pressure on Aruba?

Fantastic news!! I knew you could do it Peaches!!! Feel beter and hurry back to us. We are so proud of you!!!!

Oh Klaaaaas....EARTH QUAKE IN ST LOUIS!!!!

You probably wouldn't even consider it a real earth quake!! lol 5.2-5.4...but it woke me up at 4:30 this morning. I though my fridge was going to blow up...loud noise coming from my kitchen. My doggie and I went to check it out...loud noise was every dish rattling in my cupboard. It was wild!!! That was my 2nd!! Had one in Ohio when I was younger.

morning monkeys...long time no see...just doing a quick lookee this am....thought i would jump in! lou...a 5.4 along the new madrid is about equal to a 7.0 in california if my memory serves me! something about the rocky terrain in califronia absorbs the shocks better. the soil along the new madrid magnifies the shocks!
did not wake me up but i am a lot further from the site than you are! i bet it was scary tho!!!

not too bad...I had experienced one in Ohio...once I figured out it wasn't my fridge about to blow...hey it was 4:30am..lol...I guessed it was an earthquake. My little guy slept through the whole thing!!!

Quake was quite scary!  I thought the cave system (we live near Mammoth Cave) had opened up and our house was falling in.  The house twisted and shook. SCARED ME.  Now i may need to do work on my home like Klaas is. ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyCool::

Good Morning Everyone,

Hey I just wanted to tell you all that I am working on something truly stellar and something no one has thought about yet (To my knowledge). This goes back to the 1980's and could be a reason why the US Federal Government has not interceded to our satisfaction.

It's going to take me some time to get it all together and see where it leads... but this seems like a very interesting avenue.

I started to connect a few minor dots and it began to look promising... I'm just in the very beginning stages and as I indicated it could take me some time depending on how quickly I can connect those dots.

What's nice about this, I have some names and dates of deaths. I also have a known motive.[/i]

Now I need to connect these people to others. And we all know how that sometimes goes.

Thank you for posting the update Klaas.

I left the cage immediately following my posting and ... assumed there would be no news until today.  I wish I had checked in prior to settling for the night ... I would have had a better sleep.

I am so thankful ...

Janet

Go for it Rob. ::MonkeyRoll::

Let us know what help you need in digging up the facts.

I was thinking ... a miracle as it is only 7:30 am ... late night and ... no morning coffee to clear the cobwets yet.

Patrick receiving that boycott/protest email that was not intended for him was a very good thing in hindsight ... there was a very good lesson learn ...

Never send Patrick an email that you would not be willing to share with the world ... it may get posted in full on his site.

Also ... another good thing.  Patrick's words on his site in response to Vicki's email as well as his words in other responses ... revealed a lot about Patrick ... revealed a lot regarding where he stood on many of the issues encompassing the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

SS, I'm making some progress already and not even looking very hard. It all seems to be right here in front of my face.

I could do this all on my own I think, but it might be better to let everyone have a shot and enjoy where it goes.

Does anyone want to take part? It's always more fun when we do things together anyway. I can get it started with my *theory* and then everyone can jump in and do the research they all love to do?

any takers?

Rob ... it is a Hugo Chavez issue that I contend is at the root of the United States Administration's reluctance to act on the perception that a corrupt Aruban investigation is denying an American citizen the justice that she is entitled to under both the Dutch and American Justice System.

What do you think?

Janet

Good Morning Janet, actually it does not involve Chavez at this particular time. It could should it lead there, but right now it is not a Chavez issue.

This is internal to the US, but has many tentacles that stretch world wide.... and from what I have already found, it's truly astonishing. I'm not even looking very hard... it's just all coming to me. This seems too easy.

Whip it on me Rob  ::MonkeyCool:: lol

I'm in.

Hi Nut, I was wondering about you yesterday and glad to see you this morning...

give me a few minutes to type up my idea and then we can get the ball rolling... I think some may like what I have come up with already.

this idea hit me like a bolt of lighting last night and it was on my mind all night as I slept.

My daughter is in Evansville, IN.  She said it was strong there and went on for a long time.  I think the epicenter was about 30 miles from their home. My 3 year old grandson came running into his parents room and told them there was a monster in the house, he could feel him walking!  LOL   She said they just had a strong aftershock at 8:30 or so.

Rob ... I am anticipating your take.  There has to be something behind the silence and lack of action by the American Administration on the Natalee Holloway case.  It appears on the surface to be an outright betrayal of one's own but ... maybe there is stuff going on behind the scenes.  Could it be that case needs to be "officially" declared a closed case prior to the FBI/Family pursuing legal avenues available that will allow the Aruban investigation to be investigated.

Anyways ... off for the day.  Family gathering from my side at our home on Sunday (celebrating March/April birthdays) ... lots to do.

Janet

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

Count me in ;-)

Last night I was thinking about the BRICKS OF GOLD and it led to some areas I have wondered about in the past. Then I started to connect a few small dots and finally realized that the thoughts that have been on my mind for about two decades were finally coming to light. It was kind of a Eureka moment to quote Archimedes.

It all started in 1921 or 1922. I know, that's a very very long time ago. But this was when the intelligentsia of the world began to formulate their ideals for a one world government. It took some time for the ideas to circumvent the world and for the ideals to be established. No, this is not a one world government conspiracy theory. This is just based on what is commonly known.

This is also not to lay the blame at the feet of anyone administration, because in my view they are all complicit.

On October 24, 1945 the UN was formed to prevent the next Holocaust and to establish Israel as the homeland for the surviving Jews. This was the first step in the formulation of the next chapter of the human condition. I hope you are following me, because I am leaving some areas out to prevent everyone's eyes from glazing over. I'm just hitting some history to get the background established. We can fill in all the dates later.

As time went on the UN began to establish charters for up and coming countries and to help them establish a standard of living and a common overall interest in the human condition and to also elevate some parts of the human condition. In a sense to get everyone on the same page worldwide.

We can all argue whether or not that has been successful, but that's not the point of this exercise.

I am going to skip the 1950's, 60's and 70's to get to the point. We can fill this area in later.

In 1980 Ronald Reagan named George H.W. Bush as his Vice Presidential candidate. Why am I starting here? Because this is the beginning of where it all started in my opinion. We can also discuss whether or not this is the starting point when we establish our facts.

I remembered something that made a light bulb go off in my head. As much as I respect and admire Ronald Reagan, and he is my role model, I remembered that Reagan and Bush had quite the contemptuous campaign. And when the nomination was awarded, it was Reagan who held the nomination. What followed was the turning point in my opinion.

Here is where it all began.

Let's connect.

Reagan said there was no way he would ever have Bush on his ticket. He then reversed course and the following day named Bush as his running mate. Quite starling for a guy that didn't want Bush the day before. Most will remember that G.H.W. Bush was the former head of the CIA. Spook Central and they don't call these folks "Spooks" for nothing. There is a real reason.

G.H.W. Bush pulls the levers and switches for 8 years behind the scenes of the Reagan administration. Reagan runs foreign and domestic policy while Bush runs the clandestine network. G.H.W. Bush's father was Prescott Bush, who was elected a Senator from Connecticut in 1952.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gb41.html

G.H.W Bush - one world government  http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

Those are his own words.

-next-

During the 1980's the cocaine wars began. We all know that. And here's where it gets interesting.

The Cocaine had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere South America.

The "spook" network used a variety of agents to get the drugs from SA to America. Those drugs ended up on the streets of California and in the hands of the Bloods and Crips. And then all hell broke lose.

The drugs were imported to Mena Arkansas. Governor at the time was William Jefferson Clinton. Clinton is a One Worlder and a member of the Bilderbergers, and so is his wife. In fact, so is Newt Gingrich. These One Worlders are all over the political spectrum.

One drug runner was a man named Barry Seal. In this scheme, Barry Seal (IIRC) was a commercial pilot that was moving parking meters to South America and when he returned home he had the nose of the jet filled with Cocaine. The company that supplied the parking meters was called Park-on-Meter, or POM Inc. Based in Russellvile, AR.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/snowjob1.htm

I then only had to begin to wonder how Aruba connects to all of this and it was easy. Aruba's fingerprints are all over this cocaine transportation business.

I have already found that drugs and weapons were transported in and out of Aruba and to Mena Arkansas during this period.

I then began to wonder about Vince Foster, who magically committed suicide in Fort Marcy Park and then remembered he had gone to Switzerland with a suitcase full of money multiple times.

I than recalled that the Clinton Admin developed a software program called Carnivore which was then later renamed Project Echelon. This software was sold thru a CIA front company than sold the software to banks in South America. This software had a "back-Door" built in and it allowed the CIA to monitor banking transactions and look for drugs proceeds and transactions. The real purpose appears to see who the CIA's competitors were.

I then remembered that Betico Croes, the father of modern Aruba and the man responsible for Aruba's Separate Status, was killed in a car accident on Christmas eve 1986, coincidentally, Barry Seal was assassinated on February 19, 1986.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Seal

I know that Betico never saw his dream realized, and no wonder who killed Betico, as the killing could never be proven to be a conspriacy even though all events led to that belief.

I have more, but let's just start here, if that's ok...
 


 

Tamikosmom, Rob, 2NJSons_Mom, wreck, klaasend, SS, Helen Back, Peaches

+++++++++++

 ::MonkeyShocked::

PEACHES!!!

It does not happen often but Tamikosmom is speechless.

Praise God!

Janet

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Klaas, could you place a [/i] after Eureka.. in my above post? that should remove the rest of the italics. TIA

Klaas...You've got mail  ::MonkeyWink::

Does anyone know where Steve Cohen is originally from?

I am finding all kinds of stuff and wondering if he connects to someone I have already discovered with the same last name.

Rob,

While waiting for your post, I guessed FBI and did some searching...found 80s info...here is one link....what I had focused on was FBI/DEA teaming up during that timeframe.  Nothing specific about Aruba, but surmise it's being in the pathways to the US mainland and others...

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/history/1980-1985.html

Me to!!!!   Peaches....welcome back!!!  You must be on a laptop ;-)

Here you can see how the Renee Gielen Camp send misinfo into this world messages:

on the nwo blog
One T previously ( 2 weeks ago )had a link rear of a movie to see what was in a petrol station.
I have seen this movie, and it was not Natalee

 now,today he writes this


Here the piece
379
T Says:

April 18th, 2008 at 13:09
The cassiere of the Valero gas station declared on July 9, 2005 that they Natalee on Tuesday, May 31 has seen. She was accompanied by a lichtgetinte boy appeared with a face, a flat nose and neatly curled dark hair. The boy went in front of the cassiere stand with arms on each other. She does not feel anxious or that she was under duress. The cassiere recognized her from the photo Wednesday, June 1 in the Diario of the missing American girl stood. The incident is not connected to the security camera recorded since the day before had been a brawl and the links were viewed. Unfortunately, it was then forgotten back on the record button.
The cassiere the boy twe a week later with other boys. He spoke fluent Spanish and accentloos. He wore a white shirt with EPI out.
Two weeks later, the boy looked back and the cassiere right in the eyes with a striking smile on his face again and walked away without saying anything.
(Joran van der Sloot The Case Natalee Holloway, pg. 204-205)

Cassiere of the Valero gas station has declared that says ie
Here you have an official document of T?
What can say that T stories up!

And writes ie behind to
   
380
T Says:

April 18th, 2008 at 14:16
NB
The cassiere was the second time that the Spanish-speaking boy they saw a nervous and confused impression because they had not thought the boy again to be seen. Hence likely that the boy two weeks later another demonstrative langskwam and immediately disappeared again ..

http://www.dickrussell.org/articles/spookwar.htm
Spook Wars in Cyberspace
Is the FBI Railroading Charles Hayes?
High Times, June, 1997
by Dick Russell
Why does the international dope trade just keep flourishing, even while major traffickers and their government protectors keep getting exposed and imprisoned? Well, it could just possibly be that the ones going to jail aren't using the right computer software. Here's another murky peek into the legendary PROMIS conspiracy.

This is a story straight from a Tom Clancy novel, or maybe Mission: Impossible. Shortly before last November's election, Kentucky surplus- computer dealer, who claims to be a longtime CIA contract agent, gets arrested by an FBI SWAT team and is charged with hiring an undercover agent- to murder his own son.

At his trial in January, 61-year- old Charles Hayes testifies that he's been set up by the federal government. And why? Because he's part of a team of retired intelligence types calling themselves the "Fifth Column," who've been using a supercomputer to hack into certain secret foreign bank accounts used by numerous US politicians to stash illegal funds garnered mainly from drug and arms dealers.

The prosecution's key witness against Hayes, at the trial in London, KY, turns out to be a right-wing California journalist who occasionally informs for the FBI, a fugitive with a history of mental institutionalization. For the defense, a former senior editor at Forbes magazine vouches for Hayes' credibility. After the jury hears tapes of Hayes discussing a $5,000 payoff for a prospective hit on his estranged son, the defendant responds that he'd known all along he was talking to an FBI undercover, but had been stringing the Bureau along so he could develop evidence against them. When the CIA introduces affidavits disavowing any relationship with Hayes, he takes the stand to provide his cover name, "Charles Lawson," and an ID number.

Following three hours of deliberation, the jury finds Hayes guilty, to the astonishment of nearly 100 supporters present. He says from his jail cell afterwards, while his attorney moves for a new trial, that he anticipates "assistance" from higher powers.

Hayes Gets Around

Is Charles Hayes for real, or merely a con man looking for a get-out- of-jail-free card? For months prior to his arrest last year, revelations about Hayes and his postulated Fifth Column had been circulating on the Internet and in Media Bypass, a colorful "patriot" publication out of Evansville, IN. Not only was this Fifth Column said to have downloaded financial records on government officials from up to 3,000 hidden overseas accounts, but they also allegedly wire-transferred about $4 billion clear out of those accounts into "escrow holding funds" at Federal Reserve banks.

Then, according to Hayes, these alleged Robin Hoods of cyberspace began quietly announcing their findings to certain congress people and foreign governments; which is why, so the yet- undocumented saga brags, a record number of 60-some US senators and representatives announced their retirements just before the 1996 elections. And that also is supposedly how the Mexican federales got turned on to the drug-laundered millions salted away in Switzerland by the family of ex- President Carlos Salinas de Gortari.

On the face of it, these assertions might appear preposterous. But a HIGH TIMES investigation into Hayes' background reveals a tantalizing trail of evidence indicating, at the least, considerable insider knowledge about computers and smuggling.

In 1985, Charles Hayes was a key government witness in a Kentucky trial involving the largest gemstone seizure ever by US Customs-millions of dollars' worth that had been smuggled out of Brazil

In 1991, the telephone records of doomed journalist Danny Casolaro showed numerous phone calls to Hayes in the month before Casolaro was found dead in a West Virginia hotel room. Casolaro had spent the past several years investigating a tangled web of government corruption he called "the Octopus." One of Casolaro's focuses was the Inslaw case, in which the Justice Department stands accused of having stolen the company's PROMIS computer software, which was capable of tracking complicated financial transactions.

In 1992, Hayes testified about the Inslaw matter before a Chicago grand jury. In April '96, he was subpoenaed and gave a lengthy deposition about Inslaw to a Justice Department attorney, who quizzed him about his computer expertise. FBI Special Agent David Keller testified at Hayes' January trial that he knew of him from a previous FBI investigation into the Inslaw matter.

In July 1995, Rep. Jim Leach, chairman of the House Banking Committee, wrote to the director of the National Security Agency, seeking "your agency's help in verifying or laying to rest various allegations of money- laundering in Arkansas in the late 1980s." Among other matters, Rep. Leach asked about Inslaw's PROMIS software- and Charlie Hayes.

Several of Hayes' associates back up his contention that he's being framed, in an attempt to put the Fifth Column out of business. One well-placed source, who requested anonymity, affirms that Hayes was a CIA asset, adding, "I think Hayes has been set up to the nth degree to discredit him."

Mena and the Octopus

Hayes launched the five-member Fifth Column himself, he maintains to HIGH TIMES, primarily to follow the money-laundering of the international drug cartels. It's a personal crusade, according to one of his associates in Kentucky, triggered by the way Hayes' 37-year-old son, John-the alleged murder-for-hire target-supposedly "cooked his mind on drugs." Mark Swaney, whose Arkansas Committee was responsible for much of the early publicity surrounding the notorious CIA drugs-and-arms operation out of Mena, AK, (HighWitness News, Jan. 95) spoke with Hayes on a number of occasions between 1992 and '95: "A lot of what he told me about Mena turned out to be true," says Swaney.

Swaney's notes from a July '92 interview with Hayes contain charges that both the federal government and the Arkansas State Police were involved in distributing cocaine out of Mena. Asked if then-Governor Bill Clinton was aware of the Mena operation, Hayes responded, "No, but his associates were involved." He elaborated that some of the money was laundered through two powerful Arkansas companies with ties to Clinton.

In a five-hour jailhouse interview not long before his trial, Hayes, a former Air Force pilot, described a CIA assignment he'd once undertaken to fly a weapons shipment from Mena to Aruba in the Caribbean. On discovering that the cargo was actually cocaine, Hayes told me, he dumped it on the runway and ended up in a shoot-out that killed several people.

This is one of many stories, such as Hayes' claimed friendships with Fidel Castro and Sen. Edward Kennedy, that prove impossible to verify. But William Hamilton of St. Louis, the president of Inslaw, tells of encounters with Hayes which add credence to the existence of the Fifth Column. Hamilton first became aware of Hayes in 1990, in the midst of Inslaw's legal battle to prove that the Justice Department, FBI, CIA, NSA and other federal agencies had illegally appropriated their PROMIS database- management software for their own purposes.

As recounted in a heavily redacted House Judiciary Committee report, The Inslaw Affair (September 1992): "Mr. Hayes is a surplus computer dealer with alleged ties to both United States and foreign intelligence communities. Mr. Hayes first came to the attention of the Committee during August 1990, following assertions that excess Haris- Lanier word-processing equipment he had purchased from the US Attorney's office for the Eastem District of Kentucky, located in Lexington, contained the PROMIS software." The Justice Department had subsequently seized the equipment back from Hayes, preventing its use as evidence in the Inslaw case. (The computer gear had also allegedly contained sensitive classified material, such as the identities of narcotics informants.)

Hamilton therefore contacted Hayes, who told him the military owed Inslaw plenty of money, because it had secretly distributed his PROMIS software. When Hamilton subsequently learned from a CIA contact that PROMIS had indeed been used aboard US submarines, he visited Hayes in Kentucky in January '91. PROMIS was "in the CIA, DEA, FBI, everywhere," Hayes told him. Checking him out with other sources, Hamilton was told that Hayes and a partner both code- named "Running Fox" had belonged to an elite intelligence unit which "had to be able to take apart and put back together, without any diagrams, the Cray supercomputer."

According to Hayes, this elite spy unit was known as "Squad D." First mentioned in Bob Woodward's book Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-1987, Squad D was established by William Casey, Ronald Reagan's CIA director. Part of its mission was computer hacking. "There was penetration of the international banking system," Woodward wrote, "allowing a steady flow of data from the real, secret sets of books kept by many foreign banks that showed some hidden investing by the Soviet Union."

And not just by the USSR. PROMIS- short for "Prosecutors' Management Information System"-had originally been designed to track complicated illegal currency transactions through intricate systems of laundering and wire- transfers; it could readily be "enhanced" to track transactions by banks and dummy corporations used by terrorists and dope dealers. Hamilton's Inslaw had sold PROMIS to the early Reagan Justice Department, which promptly reneged on a $6 million payment due, asserting that a portion of the contract was not fulfilled. Inslaw went bankrupt, and its ongoing lawsuit against the Feds is still in the US Court of Claims.

Promis Them Anything

Inslaw's attorneys, who include former Attorney General Elliott Richardson, present evidence that a covert intelligence operation in fact transformed PROMIS into an unprecedented high-tech spying tool. It seems a brilliant young CIA contract agent out of Seattle named Michael Riconosciuto, reputedly a past master at clandestine drug chemistry and computer hacking, not only "enhanced" the PROMIS package to implement its use in tracking international currency transfers, but fitted it with a secret "trap-door" access port that enabled US espionage agencies to electronically monitor its use by anyone who bought it.

According to Richardson, PROMIS was peddled to as many as 88 foreign governments by "cut-out" front men working for the Department of Justice, the NSA and CIA. It was also purchased by numerous international banks in Switzerland and elsewhere, which were interested in standardizing their wire- transfer data. None of these buyers knew about Riconosciuto's trap-door application that not only allowed Uncle Sam to monitor their money-laundering in progress, but, whenever desired, to invisibly modify it.

One of the "cut-out" peddlers of this stolen, hyped-up and poisoned money-tracking software took it to Brazil in the mid-'80s, according to Charles Hayes, who was there at the time, as a CIA contract agent, in the matter of the stolen gemstones. Dr. Earl Brian (convicted last year in Los Angeles of multimillion-dollar international financial fraud) had been California Secretary of Health during Reagan's govenorship in the '70s. Michael Riconosciuto has alleged that some time after 1979, Brian was given the PROMIS software to peddle around the world to line his personal pockets. It was during a sales trip to Brazil in 1985 that Dr. Brian allegedly told Hayes about PROMIS.

Shortly after this Brazil adventure, Hayes moved back to his hometown of Nancy, KY, and, as his CIA cover, set up a salvage company specializing in computer parts-and also began working with Riconosciuto. The Fifth Column's Cray Model 3B supercomputer was primarily constructed, it is said, through purchases at Department of Defense auctions.

Initially, Hayes' Fifth Column's work had been done under government sponsorship. Veteran investigative journalist James Norman has written that besides penetrating the international banking system, the Column had initially succeeded in downloading information from over 50 intelligence services around the globe, including the Soviet KGB and the Israeli Mossad.

Then Riconosciuto got busted for running a methamphetamine lab in 1992, and wound up in the federal penitentiary, where he currently resides. Around the same time, Hayes' team discovered that the codes in the PROMIS software featured not just one, but two trap-door ports, suggesting that Riconosciuto had planned to use one of these himself, possibly to raid accounts in banks using PROMIS.

Hayes says the Column shut down Riconosciuto's port and created their own multiple setup, by which through a modem they could dial into a computer's security systems and circumvent them with a few keystrokes. Then Hayes further customized the software to sort through vast amounts of data; using a Cray, the Column could handle astounding data rates, which could be quickly downloaded and analyzed off- line in search of money flows and other connections. (In the virtual-reality realm, "money" is merely stored information; with the proper authorization codes, computers can electronically launch volumes of digitized currency from one bank account to another.)

Charging that the CIA "didn't hold up their end" of some unspecified bargain, Hayes says that he and the other four Fifth Columnists decided to go rogue. Having sole access to their own software modifications, they were now essentially creating their own private currency tracking enterprise.

Plundering The Pirates

Secret "numbered" accounts in Swiss banks, according to Hayes, are not actually numbered but lettered, with codes which appear on the lower right-hand side of their documents; using tracking software and a sufficiently powerful computer, they are not difficult to penetrate. Hayes says the Column uncovered a $1.5 million bribe paid by the Cali cartel to a witness against former Panama dictator Manuel Noriega who was subsequently convicted in Florida of narcotics crimes the cartel may actually have committed. Then after the Column in 1994 examined the secret accounts of the Salinas family in Europe, he says they passed the incriminating data to the DEA-which promptly alerted the Mexican government.

"On an official basis," says former Wharton School finance professor and money-laundering expert Orlin Grabbe, a friend of Hayes, "people associated with the Fifth Column had tried to take their evidence to the appropriate legislative committees and the Justice Department-and ran into a sea of corruption. So they decided to show them, 'We'll do our job anyway, even if it's in a different form.' "

Others are more skeptical. One well-placed HIGH TIMES source who requested anonymity says he believes Hayes and his associates may indeed have accessed foreign accounts, but may also have kept considerable sums for themselves rather than just transferring money to Federal Reserve accounts.

The Fifth Column first surfaced publicly in 1995, after James Norman, then a senior editor at Forbes, was alerted by Inslaw's Bill Hamilton to Hayes. Having broken a cover story on Iraqi arms-money laundering through oil markets, Norman was tipped by Hamilton to the PROMIS case: "Hamilton said that, as crazy as the things Hayes said seemed to be, they invariably had a way of proving true six months later," Norman recalls.

So Norman, who describes himself as a Liberal Democrat, visited Hayes at the Beckett Hotel in Nancy, where they spent an evening comparing notes. Hayes was interested in connections Norman had already discovered involving the PROMIS software, the NSA and a Little Rock bank-data-processing company then called Systematics (since absorbed by Alltell Information Services). Controlled by Arkansas billionaire Jackson Stephens, Systematics, according to Norman's sources, shuffled money for covert CIA and NSA spying operations, and was also involved in a massive bank-spying effort called "Follow The Money."

Sources also alleged a link to Vincent Foster, the White House deputy counsel whose death on July 20, 1993 was officially labeled a suicide. Foster was said to be a behind-the- scenes overseer for Systematics on behalf of the NSA, even while he was a partner with Hillary Clinton at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock. (Alltell's chairman, Joe Ford, has denied any connection between Systematics and Vincent Foster.)

"Along about midnight," Norman remembers, "Hayes dropped this bombshel1 on me: 'You know, Vince was under investigation when he died.' I said, 'What investigation?' And Hayes, in his inimitable way, took a long drag on his cigarette, leaned back in his swivel chair, and said, 'Well, it's es- pie-oh-nage.' "

Hayes was only the first of more than a dozen sources that Norman eventually uncovered in reporting his "Fostergate" story-for Media Bypass, after Forbes backed away from publishing it. Initially Hayes did not tell Norman about the Fifth Column, which he learned of from another source. But the article was the first published reference to the Column, which had been monitoring Foster's Swiss bank account.

"They had located it," Norman wrote, "by tracking money flows from various Israeli government accounts, after finding Foster's name while secretly snooping through the electronic files of Israel's Mossad."

Foster, who was said to have had access to highly sensitive US code- encryption and data-security information, allegedly was peddling some of it to the Israelis. Norman continued: "Foster's first indication of trouble came when he inquired about his coded bank account at Banca Della Svizzera Italiana in Chiasso, Switzerland, and found the account empty. Foster was shocked to learn from the bank that someone using his secret authorization code had withdrawn all $2.75 million he had stashed there, and had moved it to, of all places, the US Treasury."

In April 1995, Norman sent a letter to White House press secretary Michael McCurry concerning his article, then slated to appear in that May's issue of Forbes. Among the allegations it spelled out were Foster's having learned from Hillary Clinton, shortly before his death, that he was under investigation by the CIA; that the President's wife was also a beneficiary of funds from Foster's Swiss account; that documents relating to the Systematics company had been removed from his office after his death, and that Systematics was also involved in laundering funds from covert operations, "including drug and arms sales related to activities in and around Mena."

A week later, the White House responded that these allegations were "outrageous" and "baseless." Forbes, at the last minute, killed Norman's story, and so it appeared in the August 1995 issue of Media Bypass. Norman was keeping in touch with Hayes, digging up new information and consulting him for leads.

From another source, months earlier, Norman had acquired some account numbers that had been found among the personal effects of Barry Seal , a cocaine-smuggling CIA asset who'd worked out of the Mena airport, and was murdered by Colombian hitmen in Baton Rouge in 1986. (See HighWitness News, Jun. '86). "In a suitcase in the trunk of Seal's car was a scrap of paper," says Norman, "with a curious string of ten letters. One source who'd been involved in money-laundering in the past was quite confident it was a Swiss bank-account number in encrypted form." Norman passed it-KPFBMMBODB along to Charles Hayes.

It was not long thereafter that Norman was informed that his "Fostergate" story was being abruptly spiked, on orders from the very top: Forbes publisher emeritus Caspar Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan. Weinberger's motivation was a mystery to Norman until he subsequently learned, from Hayes, that the encrypted number from Barry Seal's effects had led to the Union Bank of Switzerland, and to none other than Caspar Weinberger. The Fifth Column had supposedly raided $2.3 million from that very account, and then left a note in Weinberger's drop- box in Bar Harbor, ME, listing the number and a message: "You have been had."

In August 1995, Norman sent Forbes editor Jim Michaels a memo with further corroboration for his Fostergate piece, including evidence emerging from credit- card and airline frequent flier records indicating that Foster had made periodic one-day trips to Switzerland. Then Norman dropped his bomb on Forbes: "If you have any doubts about the ability of the CIA's Fifth Column to raid foreign bank accounts and withdraw funds, just ask Caspar Weinberger." Enclosing a copy of documents found in Seal's trunk, he added: "The clear implication is that Caspar Weinberger, while Secretary of Defense, was taking kickbacks on drug and arms sales. A cosignatory on this account appears to be connected with [a relative of] Howard Metzenbaum, the retired senator from Ohio. We are talking about bipartisan payola. Which helps explain why Congress is so squeamish about investigating this stuff."

After sending his internal memo, Norman was told to go on indefinite unpaid leave or to resign. As Fortune noted in an article about its rival's imbroglio that fall, "The embarrassing memo was particularly ill-timed. Malcolm S. 'Steve' Forbes Jr., the magazine's 48-year-old editor-in chief, is readying a campaign to run for President on the GOP ticket." Fortune's photo of Norman was captioned: "Ex- reporter Norman's startling sleuthing proved a little too gutsy."

Putting A Stop To It

Days later, the now-unemployed Norman met with Hayes in Pittsburgh, along with Orlin Grabbe of Reno, NV, who had started examining the Foster saga in a lengthy series on his World Wide Web page (http://www.aci.net/kalliste). "Hayes made some astounding predictions," Norman recalls about pending unprecedented departures of members of Congress and the Senate. I pooh-poohed the whole thing as ridiculous. He said, 'Wait and see.' " The Fifth Column, Hayes claimed, was sending plain brown envelopes to politicians containing copies of their illicit accounts in Switzerland and offshore banks in places like the Cayman Islands. By early 1996, Hayes' outlandish prognostications indeed seemed to becoming true, as dozens of prominent senators and representatives announced their retirements.

Norman says, "He would make allusions to some geographical area or other way of describing people other than by name, who invariably would announce they weren't going to run again. It became almost like pin-the- tail-on-the-donkey." As his findings continued to appear in Media Bypass, Norman began getting calls from other mysterious sources, who he now believes were government disinformation artists "looking for stuff on Hayes."

Both Norman and Grabbe speak of repeated attempts being made on Hayes' life, including the sabotage of his car's brakes on an occasion when all three were riding in it near Pittsburgh. Grabbe's Web page alleges that one hit plot emanated from Arkansas, farmed out through a New Orleans crime syndicate which contracted with a pair of ex-CIA assassins.

There would certainly appear to be plenty of people with reason to want Hayes and the Fifth Column put into permanent dry-dock. Hayes delights in telling a story in which the Column wire-transferred millions of dollars into the US Treasury out of secret Swiss accounts held by Nancy Reagan, Henry Kissinger and Oliver North , and then proceeded to play them off against one another. This happened, Hayes says, back when North was the front-runner in the polls for a Senate seat from Virginia, which he lost after Nancy got an anonymous call telling her North "had given out her unlisted account number and they got hers and Henry's money." (North's use of secret Swiss accounts in the Iran- Contra affair is notorious.)

Hayes maintains that the Fifth Column has been a leading source for Whitewater investigator Kenneth Starr, having even downloaded "the entire White House database"-with plenty of ammunition that's yet to surface concerning FBI files provided to the Clinton Administration and contributions to Democratic campaigns.

In June last year, just as the Column's purported activities emerged, then-CIA director John Deutsch announced plans to create a "cyberwar center" to protect the nation against the growing security threat posed by computer hackers. Attacks on international wire transfers, he told the Senate, were of special concern. (As to why the banks don't just change their PROMIS software, Hayes says it's not that easy to do. Besides, he claims, the banks have been informed that if they try to do that, their competitors will receive a printout listing all their illicit moneys.)

Then last September, some 16 FBI and Secret Service agents in four cars showed up in Nancy, asking questions about Hayes.Some say they were also searching for the Column's Cray supercomputer, said to have been installed in the back of a 48-foot tractor-trailer complete with backup power supply.

And on October 22, just before a meeting Hayes had arranged with some oil-company executives in the Mellon Bank case, the FBI busted him at his residence on the murder-for-hire charge. It was no secret that Hayes and his son, John Anthony, were involved in an $800,000 court property fight over Hayes' mother's will. But after Charles' arrest, John Anthony Hayes assured a local newspaper that if his dad had really wanted him out of the way, he'd have handled it himself.

Denied bond in federal court nevertheless, Hayes was remanded to the Laurel County Detention Center to await trial. Also denied the right to act as his own counsel, he hired charismatic Lexington attorney Gatewood Galbraith.

The January trial was, to say the least, bizarre. The star prosecution witness, Lawrence W. Myers, had interviewed Hayes for a magazine article last August, and then called the FBI office in Birmingham, AL, to report that Hayes was looking to have someone killed. FBI agent Don Yarborough, posing as a would-be hit man, contacted Hayes, who spoke with him about the prospective murder over an open phone line, and used his own return address on a packet of documents he sent to this make-believe assassin. The phone tapes revealed Hayes offering to provide $5,000, seven days after his son's proposed murder, at "the best place to meet-a funeral office." In his testimony, Hayes said he "figured the government was getting ready to set up something, so I thought it would be a good time to reverse it on 'em... I figured I would be able to get them caught in a trap."

Hayes had been on CIA contract since age 19, he stated under oath. The Fifth Column had "split off" from Bill Casey's Squad D to "champion a lot of peoples' rights." Asked by Galbraith to name names of politicians forced to resign because of the Column's findings, Hayes singled out former Maine senator William Cohen (recently named Secretary of Defense) and Colorado senator Pat Schroeder. (No direct evidence has been produced concerning either of Hayes' courtroom allegations.) When he began describing how Vince Foster "had been relieved of a bank account in Bern, Switzerland," the judge ruled that such detail "must be shown to be necessary" to the defense; Foster's name was not mentioned again.

At the end of the trial's fourth day, new information surfaced concerning Lawrence Myers' background. In 1985, he had been charged with extortion and spent a year in a psychiatric facility; a felony warrant for him remained active in California. It also came out that he had been sharing information on several cases with the FBI, which had doctored "rap sheets" to hide his background.

The judge granted a two-week continuance, but after the trial resumed on January 27, refused to allow most of the damaging information about Myers into evidence. [Kennetta] Williamson, an investigator for the Tennessee attorney general's office, described him in testimony as "a professional and pathological liar." Reporter Norman testified that his investigation confirmed that Hayes "had a long relationship with the CIA as a contract agent"-which was denied in three CIA affidavits later introduced by the prosecution. That was when Hayes took the stand to reveal his alias and contract number.

But the jury believed the tapes incriminated Hayes. "The main thing I can't understand," said one juror after the guilty verdict, "is how he thought he could entrap the government."

Marvin Miller, a prominent Washington criminal-defense attorney with years of experience in espionage cases, is drafting a motion for a new trial. "We believe there are significant errors that occurred at the trial," he says. "The jury simply was not allowed to hear a number of things that could have reasonably changed their decision."

Awaiting his May sentencing, Hayes says from his cell: "Hey, I love my government. They trained me well. And the Fifth Column ain't out of business yet."

Not at my hotmail acct.  I'm going to be running out for a bit so I may not get to it for a couple hours.

Hi Ya 2NJ, that's the point, they do know all of this because it is commonly know to them... I am trying to show why there is no interdiction on the part of the US government. And why the MEP possibly has been able to hold them at bay.

If the US gets too deeply involved, the MEP could blow the lid of the drug and weapons operations. That's the motive.

FP on SM
http://tinyurl.com/6zjzt6

mark on February 18th, 2008 6:25 am

Would you want to friends with Clintons?

The following is a list of dead people connected with Bill & Hillary Clinton’s:

James McDougal - Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement, shortly after medical check. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former white House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide, bullet never found, car was clean.

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a 45 caliber gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancée of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancée, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancée.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9,1992. She died in a one car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:

Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988

Keith McMaskle - Stabbed 113 times in Nov, 1988

Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.madcowprod.com/11122007.html
WORLD EXCLUSIVE
Nov 12,  2007
by Daniel Hopsicker

<snipped>
The EU investigation reportedly logged 794 flights by the Gulfstream between November 17, 2001 and December 25, 2005.   It flew in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Italy, France, Czech Republic, Iceland and Ireland, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Barbados, Jamaica, Virgin Islands, Guadeloupe Islands and St. Kitts and Nevis, Barbados, Aruba, Santo Tomás, the Bahamas, Santa Lucia, Hawaii, Bermuda and Cancún.

<snipped>
In coming days the MadCowMorningNews will release the results of our investigation into the people responsible for these two drug smuggling American-registered aircraft, who are members of a network which we will trace all the way back to Barry Seal, in an unbroken succession of officially-sanctioned American Drug Lords, who snort with derision at the concept of Equal Justice Under Law.

In all modesty, some of what we've discovered should have long been obvious to even the meanest of intelligences.

Lucky for us, we've got a mean intelligence.

Klaas

Please check your email.

Thanks

Janet

I follow.....  Will be on and off here for a bit this afternoon....when checking in, will contribute, if I can.

Rob........

 ::MonkeyEek::  :2saywhaa:  :2thinky: :2doh: ::MonkeyEek::

This is deep.... :2thinky:

I can't help but think about Spencer Bacchus and his "shit hit the fan" look after the meetings with the Aruban Delegation. He looked like he was blown away when Greta confronted him.

It was the case of a girl running off, and they Arubans were upset about the wiretaps. And then never another word from Bacchus again, on the record anyway.

self edit - typo

Nut, there is tons more. It only shows that the Arubans could hold a trump card and possible motivation on the part of any US Admin to just let it all go away.

I could post that junk all day, but everyone will log-off  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Well, if it's findable and postable, it can hardly be considered a "trump" card.

Hi Buckeye,
if Aruba choose to make this all known, they could call up a few major networks and have it on the msm evening news and the sheeple would then know. I bet if you asked 10 people about some of this, 2 or 3 might know.

just because it's in the ether doesn't make it a dinner table discussion, in my opinion.

I also believe that the US government keeps a lot of secrets. Some could be to keep enemies from acquiring technology, or to keep their own dirty work hidden.

all those stars on the wall inside of the CIA are not for good behavior.

There is very little difference between what's legal and what's illegal if the government sanctions it.

I don't believe, imo, that only one side is acting unethically. It takes two to Shango!!! LOL

I think the local young guys and perhaps the local old guys got off on drugging and probably filming encounters with young, naive, blond tourists.  I believe GHB type drugs (could be home brewed) were used when necessary.  A privileged kid (and perhaps his father) was involved this time and favors were called in.  I think they've always known what happened.

(I think Peter R. is very nice looking.)  I also think he has a reputation as an investigative journalist.  I don't think he's involved in a super conspiracy.  Patrick is odd and I'm not sure of his motivation but I think Peter R. was in control of the tapes and probably wished that Patrick was more precise and analytical. 

Joran was in the clear.  I don't believe he would have reexposed himself on purpose.  I believe the reference to the infiltrator was made by Dompig when asked what evidence could be present that would warrant a rearrest.  His opinion was a friend infiltrator.  Heck, I might have come up with the same idea.  We were all waiting for Joran to blab to someone.

Joran and some other privileged pimps or pimp daddys are involved.  Their friends covered it up.

I don't believe in the drug, jewelry whatever conspiracy.  I think Aruba does have those issues and I believe that many Americans are involved in illegal goods.  I just don't think these problems were involved in Natalee's death and disappearance.  "It was so simple"...."20 times before".....

Aruba could call up the MSM and probably has more than once.  Forbes didn't publish this, early on.  Aruba would have no info that one of the US investigators hasn't uncovered....and probably written a book about...I don't believe, for one minute, that the US refused to get involved because they were afraid Aruba would blow some whistle.

I believe there is plenty of clandestine dealings involving the US and CIA.  I just don't believe those issues are involved in this case....except perhaps a satellite eaves drop...or Lorenzo or one of the others being an undercover operative that no one wants to expose.

Buckeye, I believe it is the four suspects. That's it. No Lorenzo, no Daury, no Julia. Dave believes it is Koen also, I give that alot of credibility. I am simply trying to show what could motivate the US government to do nothing.

I believe protecting the tourism was job one. It always was. But every country has a history, and Aruba's history over the last 20 years has been (I can't even find the right word)...I think you know what I mean. When you form partnerships with nefarious characters you are eternally linked to them and you always have the risk that someone will talk. So, getting rid of the people that can link you to those crimes is sometimes the easiest method.

it's not a rumor that drugs were run to the Mena airport... that's a fact...it's also a fact that Aruba is a transport trampoline for drugs. The drugs brought into Mena were delivered by the CIA... that's not a rumor either and every talk show host in the 1990's talked about it during the Clinton years to show how crooked they were when the Governor (Clinton) is powerless to stop Federal officials from carrying out operations directed by the President or Vice President. Federal law supersedes State Law. 

no, it's not all new, but a motivating factor was all I was trying to show.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here are the ruins of the  old pirate castle  at Bushiribana,not far from Joran's place

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/ARUBAkopie.jpg?t=1208545272)

Another tip 06-21-2005, 04:29 PM :
To Whom It May Concern;

I posted these two tips on a news station but will pass them on again to be certain they get to the proper authorities...
1. While visiting Aruba Feb 05 we went to Arashi beach one day. We met a young man I believe to be Jordan Van Der Sloot who was walking a large dog on the beach. My two kids were very excited to see the dog and enjoyed giving him a few pats as they love dogs. In the ensuing conversation this individual commented that he was house sitting and therefore caring for the owners dog as well. I wondered last night, if in fact the police and others investigating Natalees disapearance were aware that this person may have had access to an unoccupied residence in that area, where a crime could have taken place.

#2. Not far from Arashi Beach, out on the point beyond the CA lighthouse is a formation in the rocks with a post and marker, "Augustino Gerrman". This particular area is very dangerous as it is a extremely steep and deep "V" formation in the rocky coast. The surf has carved a very deep cavity or cave into the bedrock there. From the sound of the heavy surf crashing into the rock and compressing the air inside the cavity I would venture to guess that the cave could easily extend 30 to 40 feet under the face of the shelf above. If one were thrown into the water there it would be impossible to swim out of the area and in all likelihood would wind up smashed on the rocks well inside the cave out of sight. This particular area would be incredibily difficult and dangerous to throughly search out. Local conditions would make it ideal from a disposal standpoint.

Suds

Here is a link to some pics of the castle ruins and some of the Tunnel of Love

http://www.photos.dabnorge.com/aruba/aruba_eng.html

I did some browsing through Aruban history and came up with the names Arikok Park and Tanki Flip as possible sites for old Indian villages.  I have no idea where on the island these places are located.

I found a reference to Balashi as the location where the gold was originally discovered - gold bricks?

I thought that you might enjoy the response I received from Patrick.

What was his response?

Sorry, I screwed up the previous post.
I wanted to share the response that I got from Patrick. He continues to focus on crime in America as if it is an excuse for what occured in Aruba, or perhaps because we also have crime it somehow makes Natalee's disappearance OK.  It's not about us Patrick.  It's all about Aruba and we didn't cause the problem, Aruba did.  Aruba needs to fix the problem and until they do, we will boycott.

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.

For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings,

Patrick

The oldest Indians need from about 2500 BC to Aruba lived. They were fishermen, hunters and gatherers and they used simple tools made of stone and shells (carcó). The oldest excavations, which Canashito and Malmok, date from Indians around and shortly after the beginning of the Christian era (500 - 800) have lived. In preparing their graves and cemeteries shows a clear, by certain male-dominated, hierarchy.
The Indians of Aruba begroeven their dead mostly in grafkuilen, sometimes in urns, in which the corpse was placed in gehurkte attitude. A few times were objects, such as bowls or pots, to the grave. Vindplaatsen were o.a. Savaneta and Santa Cruz.
The history of tourism in Aruba is a fascinating story: it has ensured that all Arubans work that is directly or indirectly connected with tourism. Also, the look of the island changed drastically: the large stream American tourists has led to far-reaching veramerikanisering of culture which, among other brands in the range of restaurants (whether or not fast-food) and the kind of entertainment. Aruba is promoted as a resort for pasgetrouwde and students have also found their way to Aruba to celebrate their so-called Spring-break or other holidays, in which all the loose brakes. That also sometimes mistake can walk, Aruba must have experienced with the affair Natalee Holloway. The American teenager disappeared without trace in 2005 after a night steps. The negative publicity associated went tourism has a proper concern recession whose effects are still felt years.

Well personally I could care less what Patrick thinks

He has some very negative things to say about us over on his site.  I think he's a loser and a con.  I'm definitely not supporting his book sales.

Yes I know he has.  What I don't like about his negativity about SM is that it mirrors RU in that anyone that is for a boycott is a Monkkkey. 

I never had intentions of purchasing his book and like I said, really could care less how he feels about a boycott or SM.

I apologize if this had been dialogued in the past few hours.  I just go home ... accessed Patrick site to see if any of my submissions were posted and ... read the following ...

 ::MonkeyShocked::

38 ... April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Justice for Natalee Holloway said:

Patrick, Like so many posters from Aruba you are very quick to point out that the US has crime. You are absolutely correct, Patrick, the US has a lot of crime, but this is not about the US. It’s about Aruba. This is a diversion tactic that you and your fellow Arubans put forth in an attempt to change the focus from the Natalee crime to general crime in the US. It simply isn’t about us this time, it’s all about Aruba. Aruba is responsible for the corruption and the coverup that followed the horrific disappearance of a promising young American woman who chose to celebrate a significant event in her life on your island. The way in which her disappearance has been handled is deplorable. After three years, we continue to learn of the depth of the corruption and coverup. It would most assuredly be a valuable learning experience for you to read the many hours of research and documentation of corruption and a coverup that exists at the scared monkey site. I am confident though, that you are already aware of this and you have probably personally experienced much of what we have put forth about corruption and coverups.

Contrary to the implications that you have made, we are not ignorant enough to believe that we hold every man. woman, and child on Happy Island directly responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It’s insulting that you would even suggest this. We do know that those who are directly responsible have been protected. We have no way to break through this web of protection with only our voices and requests. Our boycott of Aruba is intended to force the citizens of Aruba to demand what they already know should be the right actions from their government. Three years of pleas for justice have been to no avail. Perhaps by affecting the personal bank accounts of the Aruban citizens, we will finally see the culmination of our demands for justice. The Aruban people have certainly been quite vocal of late in demanding salary and overtime increases. Perhaps they will eventually also demand justice and right actions. Our basic requests are not at all outrageous. We are asking for honor and truth. These are two human rights that should be afforded to everyone on your island whether they are Aurban or foreign tourists.

We are appreciative of your efforts to expose Joran van der Sloot. We were supportive of you when you met with resistance on your recent trip to Aruba. You have most certainly been effective in keeping this crime and Joran, himself, in the media. We celebrate that your actions have most assuredly brought a great deal of stress and discomfort to the perpetrators. We also accept that as an Aruban it is most likely painful for you to witness any financial loss to your island. However, you must also be cognizant of the fact that we did not create the Natalee Holloway incident. Aruban/Dutch people created this problem and it is Aruba who must step forward with the correct resolution. Until this happens, we will continue to boycott your Happy Island for what was done to Natalee Holloway, for what was done to her parents, and for what has been done to other American tourists who have ventured onto your island.
We want justice, Patrick, and we will not stop until it is delivered by the government and people of Aruba. We will continue to boycott your island and I have no doubt that you would do the same if this had happened to a Dutch or Aruban girl on the streets of the US. Your pompous statements will only serve to fuel our anger and our resolve. I am sincerely disappointed to learn that you have known the van der Sloots for seven years, lived across the street from the Kalpoes, and staged the entire video with your friend Joran. You should be ashamed of yourself. I, for one, will not be purchasing your volume of fiction and I have no intention of stopping my boycott of Aruba.

RESPONSE PATRICK
Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith
I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.

For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings,
Patrick

Patricks Blog

Monday, April 14th, 2008
The ongoing boycot Aruba saga

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/

The Archaeological Museum of Aruba

snipped...

The Pre-ceramic Indians buried their dead in family groups under large pieces of limestone. One such family group was found in a cave at Canashito, while many family groups (in total ca. 70 dead) were excavated at Malmok. Their well-organized burial tradition is probably a reflection of their small-scale, well-organized society.
   
Approximately 1000 years ago a different group of people established themselves on the island. These people are named Dabajurans after the "type site" Dabajuro on the mainland (West Venezuela, Falcon State). They named themselves Caquetios, which name is used most of the time. They came from Northwestern Venezuela. The period in which they inhabited the island (1000 to 1515 A.D.) we call the Ceramic Period.

The Caquetios were farmers and cultivated maize and manioc. They lived in villages (100-150 people) situated in Santa Cruz, Sabaneta, Tanki Flip, Tanki Lender and Parkietenbos. All villages were constructed near fresh water gullies (rooi) and near soil suitable for cultivation.

The pottery they manufactured was mainly used for cooking, storage, serving food and transportation. A large scale excavation at Tanki Flip  uncovered the remains of several oval houses where extended families (mother, father, children, grandparents, uncles etc.) or multi families (more than one family) resided. Also the floor plan of smaller, round houses for one or two nuclear families (father, mother and children) were found, while also a rectangular ceremonial structure was uncovered.

The Caquetios lived on the island until 1515 when most of them were taken by the Spanish to Santo Domingo/Haiti. It is not known if it were the Caquetios or another group(s) which returned in 1526 with the Spanish. Both the Spanish and this group of Indians left around 1636 when the island was taken by the Dutch.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/musea/archeological.html



 

Janet, do I understand this right? Patrick was confronted with the fact that he has known the Van Der Sloots (I'm assuming this is an interpersonal relationship and not just knowing of them) for seven years and he didn't deny it?

Patrick and Joran both claim that they first met in the summer of 2007.

Janet

+++++++++++

Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Question: How did this all happen, with this so called confession.

Joran: Yes, I did say something to someone I should not have said, it's a story to someone I have know for a while.

Question: How long have you known him?

Joran: about 6 months.


Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
By CHRIS CUOMO and CHRIS FRANCESCANI
Feb. 4, 2008
 
The entire operation began by chance in a Dutch casino. Van der Eem, a bold and emotional Dutch businessman who had never met van der Sloot before but followed the case with a passion, ran into his eventual target and claimed he decided on the spot to try and get inside the head of a man he believed had disgraced their nation.

"Getting involved is hard, you know, but I knew if I could have done something, or can do in the future, I will," he said.

"And when you saw him in the casino,'' ABC News' Chris Cuomo asked him, "you said this is your chance?"

"And I will finish him,'' van der Eem replied, explaining that he'd grown frustrated watching van der Sloot tell one news organization after another that the Aruban people are "with'' him.

"The Aruban people are good people who will give you the trust, because the justice system sometimes fails a little bit. But I knew there was something wrong in this story,'' van der Eem said.

Van der Eem adopted a strategic approach.

He walked up to van der Sloot and said without introduction, "Hey murderer'' in Papiamento, the official language of Aruba.

He said he knew that "nobody on the other table would understand what I said to him because we live here in Holland and … we talk Dutch.''

After getting van der Sloot's attention, van der Eem said, "I went, 'How are you doing? Fine?' And I walked away. I went smoking a cigarette. And two minutes later he came [over].''

Van der Eem struck up a conversation with van der Sloot and began asking him how he spent his summer. The young man replied that he played poker and smoked marijuana, van der Eem said, and the "game was started."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=2

Rob ... I just know what I just posted above ... copied and pasted from Patrick's blog.

Janet

Could we agree to disagree?
I'm not someone who believes in the corruption in the extent like a lot of posters do on this site. I also disagree when it comes to the subject of the boycott; I think it's wrong.

But I do believe Joran is involved in the dissapearance / murder of Natalee and needs to be held accountable for his actions as well as the people that have helped him to cover it up.
Patrick van der Eem & the team of Peter R. de Vries  have put a lot of effort to try and help Natalee's family & in a way they succeeded like no one did before. Beth has some peace now, the case is reopened & Beth is starting a civil case. Doesn't that count for anything?
It's seems a bit strange to me to call someone a loser / con or whatever because opinions don't match 100% & some posts on his blog could have been a bit more friendly...but that's jmo.

That is my post and my confrontation.  You are correct and he did not deny knowing the Sloots or being former neighbors of the Kalpoes.  He focused instead on crime in the US v. Aruba, and I feel that he referred to us as racist because we would not have concern for a missing African-American girl.

More info here on the Tanki Flip excavation.....located in the northwestern portion of Aruba.

http://home.planet.nl/~vrstg/western/aruba/tf.htm

The Tanki Flip site

A project to investigate the Tanki Flip site - designated as 'an Indian campsite' by Van Koolwijk already in 1883 - was organized by the Archaeological Museum Aruba and Leiden University, because of the planned use of this area for modern house building. In 1994, an uninterrupted area of ca 48 x 50 m (front cover) was opened up by a team from these institutions, together with team members from Cuba, France and the U.S.A. (back cover), in what was interpreted to have been the northern portion of the prehistoric Tanki Flip settlement......

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2r3koet.jpg)


(http://i25.tinypic.com/1ptq4o.jpg)

GBMW ... as time goes on it has been revealed that Joran's words in that video recording was one lie after another.  The three judge panel also came to that conclusion ... that is why Joran was not detained.  I wonder if Beth still has peace or ... she is beginning to reconsider.

I know I am.

Janet

+++++++++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350846;topicseen#msg350846


02/15/2008
No custody for Van der Sloot

ORANJESTAD – After the Public Prosecutor appealed the decision of the examining magistrate not to detain Joran van der Sloot, the Common Court of Justice of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba announced yesterday evening that Joran van der Sloot will not be arrested again in the Holloway-case.   

After having examined the possible slanderous image- and sound recording in secret by the editorial office of the Dutch crime journalist Peter R. de Vries, the Court says that there is not enough material to charge him.   The Court can in any case not really answer the question whether based on that, the suspect must be taken into preventive custody.  The decision also includes the situation that the suspect had given several inconsistent declarations, ‘whereby it also appeared more than once that these declarations could not be objectively confirmed’.    What also played a part is the statement of Van der Sloot about having made up everything he had said in De Vries’ programme.   The Court does not rule out the fact that the suspect has a ‘serious personality problem’.   

“The Court questioned the verity of this statement, while we could have arrested him for a third time”, explained district attorney Dop Kruimel.  Some of the things he said were partly consistent with justice’s own investigation.  Others were not though, like the boat he mentioned; that has not been found yet.”

The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision.  The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.  The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Thank you SS.

Can you reveal your source to this info?  As Beth would say ... "Greta ... this is huge!"

Janet

I very carefully chose my words when I said that "I was  sincerely disappointed to learn that...".  You guys need to spend some more time over on the Shango threads. ::MonkeyHaHa::  CAPS gave us addresses from an Aruban directly where Patrick was living across the street from the Kalpoes.  He also told us that Patrick had known the Sloots for about 7 years. 

Considering that Patrick has been selecting the submission that he will post at his blog in regards to dialogue that began with the boycott issue ... I am shocked that actually posting this one.

It confirms that the entire video recording "confession" was nothing but a sham.  Exactly what *******, San and I ... as well as others ... suspected all along.

Will the deception out of Aruba regarding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway ever end?  When will her family ever be able to awake from this ongoing nightmare?

Janet

 ::MonkeyShocked::

CAPS revealed this on the Shango thread!!  I wish it had been brought over the the Natalee Holloway discussion thread.

Nevertheless ... GREAT DETECTIVE WORK CAPS!!

Janet

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tanki Flip is not far from Jorans House
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/TankiFlip-2.jpg?t=1208557704)

zoooommm:
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/TankiFlip.jpg?t=1208557751)

Thank you SS, I thought it was your post and his reply. I wasn't sure who's post it was connected to. Thanks for clearing that all up.

One last question, ok? in the post that he refers to "Soph", does he address that 7 year relationship?

This is a huge issue in my opinion, and not to over dramatize it, but if Patrick has a 7 year relationship with the Sloots, it can only be one thing - collusion.

I must admit.. he did say that.

When we were all upset about the boycott email list getting to Patrick, I just assumed that all of you were following the Shango posters when we were talking about Patrick staging the video, etc.  I just tried to find the CAPS post about the address and the seven years, but I can't find it.  CAPS doesn't always spell things the way that we do.  ::MonkeyHaHa::  A few nights ago, I was telling all of you to go to the Shango threads because CAPS was giving us even more information about where the bad stuff had taken place.  The information about Patrick was last week, I think.

The letter that I sent to Patrick was actually one that I had posted on here the other night.  I decided to wait a few days before I actually sent it to Patrick.  When I sent it today, I added the information that CAPS had given us.  I wanted to see exactly what Patrick would say and I am also shocked that he posted it on his site without a denial.

I respect your opinion & I understand where it might come from. What do you think might have happened....at the moment?
But no matter what's to be believed of his confession: Joran has some loose ends in his brain ;-)

After seeing Jorans confession I knew right away he wouldn't be arrested. He stated she started shaking, thought she was dead and called a friend...he helped to bring 'the body' to the boat and walked home. The only criminal thing he did, according to his confession / the judges, was to help with the disposal of a body. You don't get a pre-arrest for that according to Dutch Law. So the judges decided he couldn't be arrested again.

Joran lies & has lied during the confession...I think he told the truth within a story.
Why? Because the story before the crucial moments was about 85 / 90 % the same as he has told in his statements + his way of talking / the body language & sitting in the car with his friend...all of that makes me believe there is some truth in that confession. And the way he showed how Natalee shaked...well no doubt in my mind he was there when this happened...I still get sick in my stomach thinking about that moment.

I believe the ALE thinks there is a lot of truth in Jorans confession as well....because they want to charge him with murder or manslaughter (because he / they didn't know for sure she was dead)...they're looking for the back up evidence for this charge.  And they need back up evidence for that charge in order to get a pre arrest. The fact that this hasn't happened yet is dissapointing but investigating takes time...but they are working on it...really they are (and that's not just an opinion ;-)..).

And the fact that some things don't add up...well Joran might have given details to protect helpful friend(s) or didn't tell certain things to protect himself (maybe he did know why Natalee started shaking?)
I believe Joran gave the name Daury just to give a name...he felt Patrick wanted to hear a name and he gave it...so he could continue his story.
The phonecall: well might very well be he didn't make that call from the phonebooth. Didn't Freddie work at the Mariott sometime? Well maybe he had another friend working there (or at another casiono / hotel nearby)...he goes to the hotel / casino and asks his friends phone so he can call home / another friend for a lift / help etc.

I can understand why some people might get some doubts though...(they do come to my mind sometimes as well). But I don't care how many lies he might have told..at the moment I really believe he is involved; no matter what 3 judges decided on it ;-). Of course I might be wrong & it's the wrong kind of thinking...to judge without evidence...well hey...I'm only human ;-)

I hope there will be some official information coming out soon....and maybe Patricks book will give some more interesting info.

SS…there was some confusion? Not sure where it went!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1780


« Reply #1793 on: April 10, 2008, 03:43:05 PM »

Rob,
     I think the Soph he is referring to is someone who posted near the top of his discussion forum.  She was suggesting that instead of fighting, we should put our energies into a memorial for Natalee.  Patrick did not deny anything in my last sentence, which was very6 carefully stated.
     You really should read some of his comments in that forum.  I don't read German, but their is one where I can very clearly see KKK.  In my letter to Patrick, I did not personally attack him in any manner.  As a matter of fact I reminded him of times when we were supportive of him and also that we appreciated all that he had done to expose Joran.  I offered empathy that his island suffers financial loses. His response to me accused us of being racist.  I have no time for that.

Just because I'm a stickler for details  ::MonkeyWink:: ...Patrick does not have a forum, it is a BLOG with comments allowed.  Also I doubt anything would be posted in German at his site but rather in Dutch.  You can translate pretty well any Dutch postings using Google Translate.

GBMW ... thank you for your heartfelt post.  However ... you are right ... we will have to agree to disagree on several aspects of your post.

I believe that the only part of the "confession" that rings true is the "shaking".  That the the only part of the "confession" that can be backed up.

Jug and Beth were questioned by the Dennis Jacobs on June 1, 2005 in regards to Natalee and seizures.  Joran's May 31, 2005 witness statement was destroyed ... WHY?

EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A LIE!

How can Joran be charged with "disposing of a body".  A seventeen year old young man does not have theexpertise/  qualifications to determine death.

Also ... if it is believed that Joran acted alone ... then the gardeners observation/testimony is negated.  Freddy's witness statements regarding both the shaking and the involvement of Deepak and Satish are negated.  The Superior Court's ruling that Paulus did declare to the Twitty Group that he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 4:00 AM on the morning Natalee Holloway went missing.

GBMW ... I believe that the video recording "confession" is all an elaborate scheme ... all about implicating "only" Joran and ... distancing the Kalpoes who can implicate Paulus ... distancing the Pimps who can implicate Paulus ... distancing those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... distancing those in the Dutch/Aruban administration/judiciary who were aware of or involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice.

I will spare you the backup quotes unless you want me to post them.  I would be more than happy to do that.

Janet

Thanks Mum, I couldn't find it anywhere.
I'm not very good at bringing posts from other threads, but at least this is the raw data. 

Quote from: CapsLockWizard on April 10, 2008, 01:41:04 AM
Hi monkeys,

My research is going well,

Kalpoe                             Bodjhperkash S   5/2/1964                Distr. Wanica   Seroe Patrishi 14C
Kalpoe, geb. Debipersad   Santakoemarie   10/28/1968   Distr.Saramacca   Seroe Patrishi 14C

The Above names are the Father and Mother Kalpoe and their address is Seroe Patrishi 41C

Ospina                              Martha B                     11/20/1950   Barranquilla   Seroe Patrishi 14F
van der Eem                        Patrick P                 4/1/1973     Curacao                Seroe Patrishi 14F

Now in 2005 Patrick was register as living in Aruba. His Address is just 1 house down across the street from the Kalpoe's

Patrick know the Kalpoes then already, Patric was living with a girl name Marta Ospina. Scarface know the Kalpoes, What odd is that Patrick know also Joran famaly for a long time.

Now for Giovanni Ponson, H used to own a bussiness called INEX N.V. then moved on the open the Cyber Cafe, Near the Seaport. He has a son form an other marrage called Diego... still a kid.

Now Angelina Reppas came in the picture when Gio was in the computer repair in INEX. The odd is that They build a new house near not to far from the Raquet club with out a mortgage...He also just setup his own contruction company

Hire a some workers and let them build the house. Where the money to build that house came from is still a mistery. It seem that it came from europe when just beside the Internet cafe Angelina opend her own boutique selling European Fashon.  They seems to be connected to the owners of Tropical Cafe N.V. mr. Everts. The trpoical cafe also was a small cafe and suddenly it also was renovated to a hgh class cafe. Where is the money come from.

Rent on the places from Gios and Mr. Everts to the De Veer or Seaport Rantal Management is in the $25,000.00 a month.

The strike is now in full swing.


The Kalpoes lived with their mother and step-father:

Luis & (Nadira) Khentwattie Rujkumar Ramirez
Hooiberg 91-B

I believe their biological father lives in Suriname...

I watched as much of the tapes as anyone else... all the stuff that was in English or was translated. As the Dutch posters said, 'we didn't get it all and the inflictions in the voice'... There was only one area that really stuck out for me... it was when Patrick said he saw Joran in the casino and he called him maton* = murderer. Strange way to greet someone you have never met before.

just my 'o'

Hi ******* ...

Whadda ya think friend.

Janet

Sorry Klaas, you're absolutely right.  It probably is Dutch and he does have a blog.  ::MonkeyWink::

Hi Janet :) I am sooo Happy about Peaches!!!!  ::MonkeyDance::

I am thouroughly disgusted and holding back a lenghthy post..The more Patrick speaks the more angrier I get.. :( No doubt in my mind the confession was rigged and Patrick is FOS!! Some people will do anything for money :(

Is all this BS for real?
I've been reading Patrick's responses and feel like I took a bad trip over to skanks-r-us!
WE have a KKK mentality????
WTH is going on here with Patrick.......sounds to me that Patrick is against the boycott(understandable I guess,his opinion and all that good caca)but he leaves me with the impression that he would really like for all of us Natalee supporters to 1)concentrate on ALL of our own crimes and 2)realize that he and Peter(or Patrick alone)solved this case with the so called joran tapes and could we all just skip along with the butterflies and rainbows and sing praises of forgiveness for aruba.What a bunch of bull caca.....I feel dirty. ::MonkeyEek::

Yup,I read that on his blog just now.Where is the info about hyim knowing the sloots for 7 years(and kalpoe neighbor)coming from?

Janet,

     I agree with you completely that the entire video is a sham.  I think it was an attempt to tie up all lose ends into a nice package where everyone would win including Joran, the Alpo brothers, Papa Ditch, Joe Taco, but not Natalee.  I have also wondered if Patrick is earning rewards from AHATA for things like his no boycott letter to us.  I am convinced that the video has brought lots and lots of money to Patrick.  I have another theory and all of you might think that I am crazy, but I posted on the last page of today's Shango thread.  I could be wrong, but I feel a connection.

Patrick...I don't know if You read here or not but if so this is for You......You need to remember that We Monkeys are not only Monkeys We are People and We have Children and Loved Ones just like You do....We are not trying to hurt the people of Aruba who are innocent in this case....We are trying to protect Our own and any others that go to Aruba thinking that it is safe to go there...It is Not Safe to go there. Have You any idea of all the people that have suspiciously died on the Island of Aruba since Natalee's Disappearance...Don't even try to tell Us that Boycotting Aruba is wrong....because Your words are falling on Deaf Ears....Until You Educate Yourself more about this case You need to refrain from telling Us what to do in regards to it.....

How would You feel if You came to the USA with Your Family and something happened to one of Your Children or Your Wife and nothing was done to help You....or what was done was Very Little and Alot of Nothing....Sure The ALE and Everyone of official compacity in Aruba said that They did all They could do to find Natalee...But Come on Patrick do You really believe that.....You are not Really Ever going to Convince Any of Us that They did....because You know better. We will continue to do what We think is best and that is to Boycott Aruba....until Beth and Dave get Real Answers as to what happened to Natalee.... By Your comments on Your Blog...It really makes Me wonder if You are getting paid to say some of the things that You are saying.....You also need to remember that The Scared Monkeys on this site are here out of Love and Caring for a Young Lady who went to Aruba in May of 2005 for a short Visit and never returned due to the Aruban People that Do Not have Love in Their Hearts Enough to do the Right Thing..

We Stand With the Girl...Natalee Holloway

If The People of Aruba will Ever at Some Point in Time Clean Up the Dirty Little Island....They will Probably Someday See More Prosperity than They have Ever Know not only Monetarily but Spiritually As Well! God Bless The People of Aruba who need to tell the Truth!

Sincerely PC

       

OK ... I will very quietly tip toe over to THAT thread.  However ... do not tell the other Monkeys. I have emphatically declared since way back that I do not adhere to the Shango riddles.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

I said it before...

the only thing that happened was the crime scene was moved.

I totally agree with you Janet.

For those of you that don't venture to the Shango forum...he is a synopsis of Caps interpretation of Shango that includes Patrick:

CapsLockWizard

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #1216 on: April 05, 2008, 11:08:27 AM »
   
Now let examine the word  "a sacrifice" , "the sacrifice"
 

"the sacrifice" is a person and after deed is done will return to the procecuter.

Remeber shongo uses coding to hide the person and you have to change on or two letter to find the person.

Now this person is know and I belive they must call hin

S c a r e f a c e
S a c r i f i c e

Now Patric van Emm was there to doe the deed, he was contracted by Joran to do his dirty laundry.

Exambple.:

the sacrifice (PATRICK VAN EEM) will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods (THE USA NEWS MEDIA) and cowboys (Holloway’s)

But the sacrifice PATRICK VAN EEM)  will be offered before dirty hand (STEVE CROES) sings
He will return to babylon (PUBLIC PROSECUTERS), broken but anonymous.

He will go back to babylon (PUBLIC PROSECUTERS)  broken, after the sacrifice (PATRICK VAN EEM) is eaten (make believe by the Media)

The young Lamb (JORAN) der Sloot shall be the sacrifice (PATRICK VAN EEM) for the Arawaks (MICHEAL POSNER) and the cowboys (???? DIRTY FBI).
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat (JORAN)
The gods (ATTORNEY GENERAL THERESA CROES–FERNANDEZ PEDRA)  are talking
DirtyHand (DTKM) is alive and well

CAPS LOCK WIZRD

Since I have been accused of not listening to Caps...just wanted to prove that I do indeed pay attention.  More about Patrick here:


CapsLockWizard

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #1218 on: April 05, 2008, 11:13:56 AM »
   
Check what Patrick van eem said.. and compre it with the post

Monkeys research it..its all there.



most perps think that they have foul the readers and then when the smoke clear after 2.5 years, thinking that the case is now dead, lets go make some money, and forgot that their acction will link them exactly to the riddle.

Good friends for 7 years, I know Joran from the Casino, I talk to him in our lingo. BUT I DID NOT KNOW HIM BEFORE.

in CAPSLINGO we have a PARADOX

And if anyone cares to read more this page is a good place to start...conversation continues for a few pages after...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1200

Maybe ... just maybe ... Beth has it all figured out.

Janet

++++++++

Quote from: private eye on April 07, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692#msg371692

Beth is smart, my money is on her  ::MonkeyWink::

I just unregistered myself from Patricks Blog..They registered me without my approval as I was getting the notifications in my email..I really want to puke reading him and His buddy Joraks posts and not allowing ours..I hope no one spends a cent on his book as part of that money probably goes in Jorans pocket for his house in Spain. I am glad he started posting as his true colors have most certainly come out.

I agree with most of your thoughts.  I know very well the deviousness the Aruban gov and ALE has brought forth, but I also do not see a lying monster behind every tree.  With all the investigations and research the monkeys have done, I think we are forgetting that there is an element of truth in some of the things we have been  hearing.  I think we should be searching for the truth of that night, not searching for more evil without an open mind that it may or may not have anything to do with Natalee. If it all ties in, so be it, but we are going in so darn many directions now, the truth just becomes more blurred, not clearer.

 I feel that Beth does believe what she saw, and who she talked to while in Holland.  Why are we second guessing her beliefs? When and if she comes forward with more info, I will be right with her in my support, yet I think that we have discovered and uncovered a lot of wrong doing in Aruba, the ABC islands and Holland, and viewing this as a sinister attack on everyone that has lived in these environments is a bit distorted in my mind. We do not know how much of all this is tied into the disappearance and death of Natalee.

JMO I will crawl back into my hole now. 

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Klaas ... Beth is amazing.  She is so perceptive.  Something akin to many of us ... her initial reaction may be from the heart ... hoping against all hope that justice for her daughter will prevail but ... then common sense sets in and reveals to her ... SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT!!

The deception has  been coming out of Aruba for almost three years.  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! 

Janet

++++++++

Beth Twitty
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2006

BETH: There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null

Aruba politics(for those interested):

Beau Beau, Fish first on stage in
tonight’s ‘King of Kings’ clash
PHILIPSBURG--The constitutional change process of the Netherlands Antilles is a mess, member of Aruba’s Council of State Hubert Maduro said in an interview with Dutch World Radio.

He said he believed the Netherlands was approaching the process too much from a judicial point of view, while the human aspect of it should be taken more into account.

“We entered a state of annulment. At this moment there is no hope that we will make something better out of it than the demolition we already caused. There is no vision of how things must continue,” Maduro said.

He said he believed politicians in The Hague should focus much more on finding solutions. “We should be treated as Dutch citizens and solutions should be sought, but we must deal with each other as human beings. We have to discuss the things that we can do together.”

Maduro referred to the model of the European Union as an example. Personally, he is not a supporter of the separate status model. “It doesn’t matter how you look at it. The fact is that it’s six islands that have been together for a long time. The restructuring of the Netherlands Antilles has failed.

“The intelligent people in The Hague have been taken into the process. The only thing they could have come up with is to divide the islands into two separate groups. After the reorganisation it will be a mess.”

He believes Aruba should be more actively involved in the process. “As a country within the Kingdom, Aruba has the task to be more involved. Until now it has stood on the sideline and observed what has been going on, because the island’s point of view was that its status would not be touched.”

Maduro expressed serious doubts whether St. Maarten could obtain a separate status and said he believed the Aruba government had to point this out. He said St. Maarten was a small island with not enough governmental power and Aruba was well aware of what this meant.

“There is only a small group of people in St. Maarten to pull the wagon,” he said. He said he had made his doubts known on several occasions before, but no one would listen to him.

With respect to the plea of former Dutch Minister of Interior Affairs and Kingdom Relations Johan Remkes, currently a Member of the Second Chamber for the VVD party, to create a commonwealth of nations, Maduro said it was “interesting.”

However, he does not consider the idea very serious. Remkes presented his idea last week Thursday during a debate of the Permanent Committee for Aruban and Antillean Affairs of the Dutch Second Chamber.

He said that in light of the constitutional change process being in danger of coming to a complete standstill, the VVD party had thought of alternatives. Remkes said he believed the autonomous status for Aruba, Curaçao and St. Maarten should be reconsidered, as well as the public entity for the BES islands Bonaire, St. Eustatius and Saba. He opts for a status of special municipality or, what he personally prefers, a variant of the commonwealth of nations model.

Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage does not believe in Remkes’ option of a commonwealth of nations. She said changing the process in its entirety would mean putting aside the November 2, 2006, Final Accord, which could have a negative effect on the agreements made for 90 per cent debt relief by the Dutch Government.

She believes more in the option of phased implementation of the new statuses, which option Dutch State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten has asked the Council of State to investigate.

The findings of the direction group that has been assessing the constitutional change process thus far will be influential for a new phased plan that has to be decided on during the scheduled political consultation in May.

The Prime Minister lamented that the debt relief would not start in time anymore because St. Maarten wants to discuss the agreements made in January, mainly in the field of good corporate governance.

“Everyone was glad in January with the accord signed and hoped that the debt cancellation could have commenced in July, but now St. Maarten wants to go back on the agreement,” she Prime Minister said. She hopes the issue will be resolved during the political consultation planned for May.
 

Copyright ©2008 The Daily Herald St. Maarten
E-mail Webmaster 205 
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k281/king281.html

I hope you are right PE...I want some action now!!

Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
Post by: texasmom on April 05, 2008, 11:53:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: CapsLockWizard on April 05, 2008, 11:20:17 AM
most perps think that they have foul the readers and then when the smoke clear after 2.5 years, thinking that the case is now dead, lets go make some money, and forgot that their acction will link them exactly to the riddle.

Good friends for 7 years, I know Joran from the Casino, I talk to him in our lingo. BUT I DID NOT KNOW HIM BEFORE.

in CAPSLINGO we have a PARADOX


Caps,
The bolded above is not true!  How could it be?  Patrick was friends with a 12 year old Joran?  I don't think so.....  Patrick was from Aruba but had not lived there for years from what I understand.   When did Patrick serve time for his drug conviction?  Patrick and Peter have both said that Poentje's revelations were not true, if you believe them to be true; write them down and look at the whole picture.  I just don't see it.  If Patrick was indeed as involved with these people, why did he ever go to prison??????

Title: Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
Post by: CapsLockWizard on April 05, 2008, 12:19:19 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: texasmom on April 05, 2008, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: CapsLockWizard on April 05, 2008, 11:20:17 AM
most perps think that they have foul the readers and then when the smoke clear after 2.5 years, thinking that the case is now dead, lets go make some money, and forgot that their acction will link them exactly to the riddle.

Good friends for 7 years, I know Joran from the Casino, I talk to him in our lingo. BUT I DID NOT KNOW HIM BEFORE.

in CAPSLINGO we have a PARADOX


Caps,
The bolded above is not true!  How could it be?  Patrick was friends with a 12 year old Joran?  I don't think so.....  Patrick was from Aruba but had not lived there for years from what I understand.   When did Patrick serve time for his drug conviction?  Patrick and Peter have both said that Poentje's revelations were not true, if you believe them to be true; write them down and look at the whole picture.  I just don't see it.  If Patrick was indeed as involved with these people, why did he ever go to prison??????


The seven got in there and was under the cursor and I already post it. it should say "friends for years. My Neuron Computer when it start assembling and processing the keys, it go so fast and my fingers can not keep up with it.
That key fits perfectly. Now I need the contracter. it is not MP but there is someone between MP and PvE

Read my post carefully and there is the answer. he will return anonymous. how can you send some one you do not know to jail.

I started reading the things that Patrick was saying on his blog and it really made me angry, especially when I was aware of the information that CAPS had shown us.  I just really felt that a few things needed to be put on the table.  I am very tired of playing Aruban games.  I didn't expect to have a response from Patrick, however, because of the magnitude of my challenge, he probably felt that he had to respond in some way, even if he ignored the final sentence in my letter.  When Patrick was in Aruban there was a lot of flack from the Arubans about him only being in this for the money.  I have to feel that many in Aruban probably knew what CAPS later told us.

CAPS IS MY HERO   ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::  ::MonkeyDance::

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/#comments

Monday, April 14th, 2008
The ongoing boycot Aruba saga
___________

April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Jorik said:

Hi Patrick,

I just noticed Justice for Natlee claims you’ve known the van der Sloots for 7 years and lived near the Kalpoes….and you didn’t respond to that…is that true? I doubt it but since you didn’t comment on it at all…..a bit weird.
Greetings,
Jorik

PATRICK’S RESPONSE
Total nonsense. Probably coming from this Casto tape. Funny how they believe that stuff, coz he is known as one of their biggest enemies if they really would care for Natalee. I start to doubt more and more the other information these people spread around. As far as the Kalpoe brothers go, they must have been in their nappies when I left Aruba.


+++++++++++


Quote from: CapsLockWizard on April 10, 2008, 05:41:04 AM

Hi monkeys,

My research is going well,

Kalpoe                             Bodjhperkash S   5/2/1964                Distr. Wanica   Seroe Patrishi 14C
Kalpoe, geb. Debipersad   Santakoemarie   10/28/1968   Distr.Saramacca   Seroe Patrishi 14C

The Above names are the Father and Mother Kalpoe and their address is Seroe Patrishi 41C

Ospina                              Martha B                     11/20/1950   Barranquilla   Seroe Patrishi 14F
van der Eem                        Patrick P                 4/1/1973     Curacao                Seroe Patrishi 14F

Now in 2005 Patrick was register as living in Aruba. His Address is just 1 house down across the street from the Kalpoe's

Patrick know the Kalpoes then already, Patric was living with a girl name Marta Ospina. Scarface know the Kalpoes, What odd is that Patrick know also Joran famaly for a long time.

Now for Giovanni Ponson, H used to own a bussiness called INEX N.V. then moved on the open the Cyber Cafe, Near the Seaport. He has a son form an other marrage called Diego... still a kid.

Now Angelina Reppas came in the picture when Gio was in the computer repair in INEX. The odd is that They build a new house near not to far from the Raquet club with out a mortgage...He also just setup his own contruction company

Hire a some workers and let them build the house. Where the money to build that house came from is still a mistery. It seem that it came from europe when just beside the Internet cafe Angelina opend her own boutique selling European Fashon.  They seems to be connected to the owners of Tropical Cafe N.V. mr. Everts. The trpoical cafe also was a small cafe and suddenly it also was renovated to a hgh class cafe. Where is the money come from.

Rent on the places from Gios and Mr. Everts to the De Veer or Seaport Rantal Management is in the $25,000.00 a month.

The strike is now in full swing.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg372608#msg372608

The dates (years) concern me and ... the names of the Kalpoes.

Could somebody please clarify.

Does CAP provide a source regarding the seven year long relationship with the VDS'.

Thank you.

Janet

On 7-12 stated the team searched on the “Marriott Hotel” beach, but the dogs kept getting “hits” because the area they searched was an “old Indian burial ground.”
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline2005_07.html

I find this very interesting.  I think a potential motivating factor has been shown, especially when taken in context with Bacchus' body language and subsequent lack of action after meeting with Arubans behind closed doors.  It's obvious that something unexpected went on during that meeting.  I suspect that the Arubans being angry about the wire taps was only a "piece" of the discussion.

Kalpoe                             Bodjhperkash S   5/2/1964                Distr. Wanica   Seroe Patrishi 14C
Kalpoe, geb. Debipersad   Santakoemarie   10/28/1968   Distr.Saramacca   Seroe Patrishi 14C

The Above names are the Father and Mother Kalpoe and their address is Seroe Patrishi 41C

Ospina                              Martha B                     11/20/1950   Barranquilla   Seroe Patrishi 14F
van der Eem                        Patrick P                 4/1/1973     Curacao                Seroe Patrishi 14F

Now in 2005 Patrick was register as living in Aruba. His Address is just 1 house down across the street from the Kalpoe's

Patrick know the Kalpoes then already, Patric was living with a girl name Marta Ospina. Scarface know the Kalpoes, What odd is that Patrick know also Joran famaly for a long time.

Rob and Buckeye,
I have been reading your post with great interest.
I know we have some great letter writers here at Scared Monkeys. Has anyone thought about contacting the FBI and asking for some of what they have on the Natalee case under the Freedom Of Information Act?
I do not know how long that material is protected. I know you can request info they may have on yourself.
Just a thought.

On 7-12 stated the team searched on the “Marriott Hotel” beach, but the dogs kept getting “hits” because the area they searched was an “old Indian burial ground.”
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline2005_07.html


Kermit,

This is really interesting.  I wonder if this is where the riddle says that the dogs should have been set lose?

Janet
What does that reference to the Casto tape mean? Do you have any idea? TIA

I have looked but I cannot find any quote that implies that Patrick was friends with the VDS' for seven years.

According to Patrick ... Castro (talk show host) implied that there was a seven year relationship.  Why would he do this if there was not a foundation of truth?

I wish CAPS would provide the sources from where he derives his knowledge which he shares.  He always leaves his me confused ... always leaves me with more questions.

Hey ... maybe Shango is a Monkey.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

+++++++++

Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
By CHRIS CUOMO and CHRIS FRANCESCANI
Feb. 4, 2008

The entire operation began by chance in a Dutch casino. Van der Eem, a bold and emotional Dutch businessman who had never met van der Sloot before but followed the case with a passion, ran into his eventual target and claimed he decided on the spot to try and get inside the head of a man he believed had disgraced their nation.

"Getting involved is hard, you know, but I knew if I could have done something, or can do in the future, I will," he said.

"And when you saw him in the casino,'' ABC News' Chris Cuomo asked him, "you said this is your chance?"

"And I will finish him,'' van der Eem replied, explaining that he'd grown frustrated watching van der Sloot tell one news organization after another that the Aruban people are "with'' him.

"The Aruban people are good people who will give you the trust, because the justice system sometimes fails a little bit. But I knew there was something wrong in this story,'' van der Eem said.

Van der Eem adopted a strategic approach.

He walked up to van der Sloot and said without introduction, "Hey murderer'' in Papiamento, the official language of Aruba.

He said he knew that "nobody on the other table would understand what I said to him because we live here in Holland and … we talk Dutch.''

After getting van der Sloot's attention, van der Eem said, "I went, 'How are you doing? Fine?' And I walked away. I went smoking a cigarette. And two minutes later he came [over].''

Van der Eem struck up a conversation with van der Sloot and began asking him how he spent his summer. The young man replied that he played poker and smoked marijuana, van der Eem said, and the "game was started."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=2

Janet,
I questioned Caps when he made the post about "seven" years.  I posted it earlier to show that he did post "seven" years but corrected himself after I questioned it.  I didn't find it reasonable that Patrick would have befriended a 12 year old JVDS.  Caps responded that he did not intend to say "seven" but that it should have said "friends for years". 

Patrick's comments about Castro are due to the fact that Poentje Castro claimed that Patrick stated in the secretly recorded taping that he had know Joran for seven years.  This episode of Poentje Castro's show was never televised as the first part had been. 

Isn't de vries a respected journalist in the netherlands? 

Why would he align himself with this filth?

There may be a method in Peter's madness. 

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Friday, March 14th, 2008
Message for my American readers

Poentje Castro, a television reporter in Aruba, made a sneak recording of a private conversation with Patrick van der Eem, the insider in the Natalee Holloway case who recorded the confession of Joran van der Sloot during an undercover camera operation. The temptation to slyly record a private conversation with the man who is now famous in Holland and the USA for recording a criminal confession must have been just too much to resist.

However, his enthusiasm was to get the better of him. Keeping one camera rolling after the granted interview, the reporter forgot that you have to ask clear questions, and the answers – as the reporter now claims – should throw a different light on the case. In that sense the reporter failed. This was aggravated by biased editing of his material.

Both the aired preview and Castro himself were already facing heavy criticism on the front pages of Aruba’s newspapers. Due to the leading questioning and “clumsy” edits, the Aruban broadcaster decided not to air the complete interview, but rather fade the channel to black. Over the years, Castro has become known for his firm belief that Joran van der Sloot is not guilty, and currently fosters the speculative opinion that Joran must have made his confession up.

Due to the ongoing hype of the Natalee Holloway case in the Netherlands, the Dutch press unfortunately reported several of these suggestive statements, under the misconception that they represented hard news.

According to the Dutch translation from the original Papiamento (Aruba’s native tongue), Patrick says: “But I know who dumped the body in the sea…” in one fragment of the private conversation. While this hit the headlines, it is clear that Van der Eem was speculating, in a similar way to someone who says: “But I know that the New York Yankees will win the Superbowl this year”. Van Der Eem has a private opinion about who assisted Joran van der Sloot, but not the actual knowledge.

In another fragment that made headlines as hard news, Van der Eem is reported to have said: “because I already know him (Joran) for so many years”. However, at the end of the same sentence, he states that he knows Joran in flesh and blood only “for seven months” for the duration of the undercover operation plus aftermath. What he in fact says in the first part is that “he had already heard of him (Joran) for so many years”, as have so many of us since Natalee’s disappearance.

When Van der Eem tries to explain to the reporter that he gave the media the same information as he gave the police as a witness, the reporter edits the fragment in such a way that suggests Van der Eem paid the media and the police, which is patently complete nonsense, but has nevertheless been reported as a scoop by some Dutch media.

The above gives a clear impression of the lack of editorial and translational integrity of the recording of the private conversation, of the interview and of those fragments that have been broadcast. The clumsy translation from the Papiemento added further to this canard.

Castro has been attempting to sell his TV interview to numerous networks, both in the Netherlands and the USA. Before the broadcast, he also made an offer for Van Der Eem to buy the tapes, which was declined outright by his spokesman. Mr. Schouten: “He didn’t mean the costs to copy a DVD or for stamps. Mr. Castro wanted to receive a fee for the tapes. That’s like giving candy to a child that misbehaves. I have requested his lawyer now formally to send me these recordings from the first to the last second without any editing or cuts.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364942#msg364942

From Patrick's blog:

April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am

Jorik said:


Hi Patrick,

I just noticed Justice for Natlee claims you’ve known the van der Sloots for 7 years and lived near the Kalpoes….and you didn’t respond to that…is that true? I doubt it but since you didn’t comment on it at all…..a bit weird.

Greetings,
Jorik

PATRICK’S RESPONSE

Total nonsense. Probably coming from this Casto tape. Funny how they believe that stuff, coz he is known as one of their biggest enemies if they really would care for Natalee. I start to doubt more and more the other information these people spread around. As far as the Kalpoe brothers go, they must have been in their nappies when I left Aruba.

And why did Joran nor his father mention this straight after the show?  ::MonkeyWaa::

This information looks like a new attack with disinformation.

I think he means the Castro tape.  Castro is the guy who kept the second camera rolling after the interview with Patrick in Aruba.



When I left my first post on Patrick's blog, I didn't give a website affiliation.  I just left Patrick a short token for his morning coffee and I noticed that he had assigned me to scaredmonkeys.com.  He is assuming that I am part of SM.  Good guess Patrick, but you should assign me a website affiliation and you shouldn't register ******* without our permission.  This is what I left on his blog...

Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:27 am

Boycott =
a group’s NONVIOLENT refusal to have commerical dealings with an organization in protest against its policies.

I still have faith in De Vries but he really has shied away from his groundbreaking work in his first show..Which involved the cover up,real facts and he was close to the truth..I do have my suspicions about him telling the world that He and Patrick solved the case though,as I believe that show was all fake. I think he may have sold out for the enormous ratings and money..He may not have even caught on until it was too late for all I know..But I am not sure at all about whats going on with De Vries and what he really thinks..But I think Patrick tried to scam us all and it's all about the money and he's a snake.MO

Thanks monkeys for the answers...I knew about Castro..just didn't make that leap I guess.

My understanding of CAPS's explanation for these addresses is that there is a central registry in Aruba.  When someone moves to Aruba, they have to register with the government.  I don't know how CAPS has access to the registry, but he has provided numerous names and addresses from this source.

[/quote]


I find this very interesting.  I think a potential motivating factor has been shown, especially when taken in context with Bacchus' body language and subsequent lack of action after meeting with Arubans behind closed doors.  It's obvious that something unexpected went on during that meeting.  I suspect that the Arubans being angry about the wire taps was only a "piece" of the discussion.



[/quote]

you are correct about bacchus' meeting with the arubans.  there is no telling what kind of "official" lies were told to him concerning natalee's disappearance. there's no telling what he was threatened personally with, offered to him and his campaign fund, or anything else that came to mind for the arubans.  the arubans are capable of the most despicable things i could possibly imagine.  why do you think the arubans wanted jqk and natalee's family left out of the proceedings.  fewer witnesses, and the family would have too much backbone to put up with such tripe.
dennisintn

Welcome Briany!  ::MonkeyWink::

SS ... I have been following the case for three years ... as far as I am aware those are not the names of Deepak and Satish' parents.

Was Patrick living in Aruba in 2005.  He implies in his blog that is wasn't?

I am confused.  Where is Caps getting his info from.

Janet

++++++++++


Monday, April 14th, 2008
The ongoing boycot Aruba saga
__________

April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Jorik said:

Hi Patrick,

I just noticed Justice for Natlee claims you’ve known the van der Sloots for 7 years and lived near the Kalpoes….and you didn’t respond to that…is that true? I doubt it but since you didn’t comment on it at all…..a bit weird.

Greetings,
Jorik

PATRICK’S RESPONSE

Total nonsense. Probably coming from this Casto tape. Funny how they believe that stuff, coz he is known as one of their biggest enemies if they really would care for Natalee. I start to doubt more and more the other information these people spread around. As far as the Kalpoe brothers go, they must have been in their nappies when I left Aruba.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/#comments

April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Jorik said:

Hi Patrick,

I just noticed Justice for Natlee claims you’ve known the van der Sloots for 7 years and lived near the Kalpoes….and you didn’t respond to that…is that true? I doubt it but since you didn’t comment on it at all…..a bit weird.
Greetings,
Jorik

PATRICK’S RESPONSE
Total nonsense. Probably coming from this Casto tape. Funny how they believe that stuff, coz he is known as one of their biggest enemies if they really would care for Natalee. I start to doubt more and more the other information these people spread around. As far as the Kalpoe brothers go, they must have been in their nappies when I left Aruba.


     I actually have to chuckle with this one.  Isn't it interesting that as soon as we started commenting about no denial from Patrick, "Jorik" suddenly posted something on Patrick's blog. 
     If you read Patrick's response very carefully, he still doesn't deny that he has known the Sloots for years.  CAPS never said that they were friends.  CAPS said that Patrick knew the Sloots.  He also used our statements as a way to further discredit Castro, when Castro had nothing to do with this.  The address that came from the registry was from 2005.  The Kalpoe's weren't in Nappies when they took after Natalee.  I don't know how long one has to stay in Aruba to register. 

Welcome to the cage Briany.   ::MonkeyDance::

Patrick's blog is like a controlled Aruban AHATA Blog now :( Jorik is probably one of his buddys..

Here is tomorrows Awemainta Newspaper..Maiky Farro makes his first appearance and hundreds of protesters take to the streets again today..

(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/275/farrovs4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Good Night Monkeys

I am making three large lasagnas tonight (2 meat/1seafood) and ... then putting them in the freezer for family gathering on Sunday.  Then on Sunday ... I only have to put out munchies ... make a large salad ... heat the buns and ... enjoy the company.  Daughter is bring a large ice cream cake from Dairy Cream.

Eldest son, DIL and 20 month old grandson are coming from Vancouver Island.  I am so excited.  I have not held that little guy in my arms for one whole month.

I will busy all weekend but will check into the cage every now and then.  I will be anticipating favorable updates about Peaches from her DH and ... maybe Peaches will feel up to posting a few words.

Have a good weekend all.

Janet
8:35 PM

Have a great weekend Janet!  Sounds like fun!

SS,
Please go back and read what Caps said, including his correction when I questioned the "seven" years.  Also, I believe he was specifically referring to Joran. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg371261 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.msg371261)

I noticed Nelson Oduber hasn't changed much in the last 20-30 years..Any birthday wishes for Nelson?
(Betico Croes,Nelson Oduber and Juchi Croes on the far right)Photo not dated
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1765/nelson1dy3.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9053/nelsonbx6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Van der Eem threatens TV-presenter Castro
(Amigoe: 3/7/08)
Poentje Castro during his interview met Patrick van der Eem.

ORANJESTAD — Patrick van der Eem has threatened Poentje Castro of the programme Un Dia Den Bida, with death.  That’s what Castro said today and he wants to report this with the police.  He showed the recording he made from Van der Eem live on TV last Sunday.  Van der Eem called Castro on the phone immediately after the broadcast; he was very angry. 

The conversation with Van der Eem was recorded two weeks ago.  A second camera kept rolling after the interview, and Van der Eem evidently didn’t know this.  That movie ended up on YouTube (VIDEO I, VIDEO II, VIDEO III), and Nieuwe Revu had the interview translated into Dutch.  Van der Eem said at certain point during the interview that he had known Joran van der Sloot for years.  He also said that he knows who had thrown Natalee Holloway into the sea. 

TELEARUBA

The integral interview was going to be shown on TeleAruba yesterday evening at 21:00, after part of the interview was already showing on YouTube.  Castro says that TeleAruba management didn’t venture to do this, because they were afraid to be sued.  TeleCuracao and the Dutch current affairs Nova and De wereld draait door have indicated their interest in broadcasting the integral images.   Director Robert Kelly of TeleAruba said in a reaction that the recordings are ‘illegal’.  “The person in the recording didn’t know that he was being recorded and that can have legal consequences.” 

What’s important for Castro is that ‘the questionable image’ of Van der Eem is shown.  “Van der Eem is a dubious person with a big mouth.  His scar shows that the underworld had already made that clear; they mutilated him.  With what he told me, he confessed who he really is.  He says that he wants to help the Aruban people solve the case, but what he really wants is make money.  He wants to become a millionaire.”  

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/03/08/so-the-aruban-dutch-media-think-patrick-van-der-eem-is-worse-than-joran-van-der-sloot-no-media-bias-here-or-agendas/

'Friend' knows who dumped Natalee
Friday 07 March 2008

Patrick van der Eem, the man who helped secretly record Joran van der Sloot confessing to being with Natalee Holloway when she died, has himself been secretly recorded by an Aruban tv company, Dutch media report on Friday.

After an interview on a local television station, Van der Eem carried on talking, thinking the cameras had been switched off.

But instead he was recorded saying that he knew who had dumped Natalee’s body at sea and that Van der Sloot had asked him for €2,000 to buy the man’s silence, the Telegraaf reports.

Van der Eem was also heard saying he had known Van der Sloot for several years. On Peter R de Vries’ tv programme, he claimed he befriended the Dutch student in a Nijmegen casino in 2007.

According to the Telegraaf, Van der Eem expects to become a millionaire because of his role in the Holloway affair. ‘And I will make sure that Joran and his entire family fall flat on their face. They had better emigrate to Africa,’ the paper quoted Van der Eem as saying.

Parts of the interview, which was recorded in Papiamento two weeks ago, have already been aired by TeleAruba. The interview was made following the news that Van der Eem has signed a US book deal.

News agency ANP reports that Van der Eem was furious after the partial broadcasts and has threatened interviewer Poentje Castro. Castro is seeking legal advice, ANP said.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/03/friend_knows_who_dumped_natale.php

Welcome Briany!

Janet:
Have a great weekend!!That kid is lucky to have you as a grandmom!  ::MonkeyWink::

Amen, brutha! The ONLY thing Patrick has done is to show the world that joran LIES.

Yeah I have a birthday wish for him.  Nelson I hope you drop dead before your next one.

 

Thanks for the welcome. ::MonkeyDance::

Patrick told in interviews he was interested in the Natalee case from the start. When Patrick met Joran in a Dutch casino he made this plan. As far as I know Patrick went to the police first, but the police was not interested because they are not allowed to work the way Patrick was going to do. After that Patrick went to Peter. It is known that Peter was investigating the Natalee case from the start and did not want to let go without an answer. It is also known that Peter was convinced that Joran and his father knew more about the disappearance of Natalee, so it is quite obvious that Patrick went to Peter when Patrick found out that the police could not work with him.

I have seen the tapes too. Patrick is not a detective and it is always a risk Joran would find out. By the end of the tapes one can see that Joran gets bored with the questions. It is very understandable that Peter and Patrick decided to stop.
The tape is better than nothing. Joran told in the tape he knew that Natalee definitely never comes back. How can Joran be so sure about this?

Why would Patrick make a tape like that? ::MonkeyConfused::

Aruba is not a very big island so it is very well possible that he had heard of the family. Joran was a very young boy by then. Sorry I don not believe the story. Patrick has the right to try and protect the inhabitants of Aruba, of course.

Rob,

Interesting post. I read that book a few years ago. So many dots not connected, or at least not publicly connected. Thanks for posting. Should be interesting race for the Democrats and then the election. Wonder how much dirty will come out???

Monkeys, keep up the Good Work!

Hi all,

one question to ask your self.

Why in all the interviews tapes that I review this week of Scareface (Patric), he never asked about the cops or asked Joran why did you not call the Police ?

Answer:


In 2002 Patrick brother open a water sport business in Aruba. Trough his brother in 2003 he knew Joran already and his dad and Famaly in Holland.

in holland he lives 15 min drive from the sloot town. He lives in a trailer park. He was a business and knew the sloot Famaly all the time. they allways where friends in Holland.

To find these info, you have to go and search in Dutch for info about these people. There is alot good info about Scareface.

Now one more question:

Patrick called Joran "Maton" means Killer, but if we are friends for a long time, this is welcome, and even both of them knowings that one of them did not do it. So who did it between them, Joran did not do it, he is the scapegoad. The Gesture was welkome to Joran. But Joran can not call him (Patrick) a Moton (Killer) becuase this will be exposing to much of patrick. There is a saying that the real killer will always call the one that did not do notting a killer as a Joke.

Remember there is the Sacrefice and their is the sacrefice. both are persons, one is a Person that will sit-in for the real scarefice (Killer)

 

To call someone a Moton is an insult. but only a friend that has killed before can use that 

CapsLockWizard,

First of all: when someone gets "sick" you call an ambulance, not the police. Patrick asked several times, why did'nt you check she was alive? Why did you do this? Things like that.

Furthermore: if I live in a village or small town it is not strange that my family also lives there.
The fact that Patrick was known on the Island is the reason that he was able to get in touch with Joran.
If you want to believe all the stories about "scarface" from just everybody, you might as well believe all the stories which have been told about Natalee's mother.

The stories are similar and do not make sense.

That my opnion.

Patrick is a piece of garbage make not bones about it.  He has been exposed for what he is which in my opinion a liar who is working with the Sloots and Aruba.

The stories about Beth are not similar.  Every story that Aruba, the Sloots or Julia Renfro has told about Beth have been proven to be a lie.

« Reply #1779 on: April 10, 2008, 07:54:06 AM » vms   

The Kalpoes lived with their mother and step-father:

Luis & (Nadira) Khentwattie Rujkumar Ramirez
Hooiberg 91-B

I believe their biological father lives in Suriname...


« Reply #1793 on: April 10, 2008, 03:43:05 PM » Caps

VMS are you sure your data is correct, at the adress lives these persons

Bouwman   Martin R   11/22/1950   Soerabaja   Hooiberg 91B
Ramirez   Luis A   5/2/1960   Aruba   Hooiberg 91B



« Reply #1794 on: April 10, 2008, 03:49:05 PM » vms

Luis Ramirez is their step-father. The address is listed in the chamber records and also, IIRC, there is a picture of their home where the address (number) is visible.

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=34963

I don't know about the Bouman person though, Caps.

« Reply #1819 on: April 11, 2008, 06:14:11 AM » MumInOhio

Caps...Can you please tell me where these districts are? Are they in Suriname?Should we be looking at De Veer and the Marriott - Renaissance?  TIA





Tamikosmom…...I posted the link and said there was some confusion. On further checking this morning I did not find any clarification on Caps’ post. I apologize for not posting this last night, but do not post regularly at night as I am an early riser and my brain and fingers are not in synch at night! (As well as the fact that DH thinks he has my undivided attention if I am not logged in...LOL). Here are the rest of the posts on this subject. On further reading of the thread, Caps did not clarify or elaborate on this at all.

This is precisely the reason for my post in the ‘Shango’ thread earlier in the week, for which I have probably been likened to Hitler’s cousin! I have not been asking any more from Caps, re explanation and verification of his posts, than would have been asked of any other poster on this forum!

Good Morning San!..It appears that Patrick's anger with the Monkeys may coincide with the discussions on him on the Shango thread.

Hope someone is saving his posts in case he wants to promote his book on MSM. Send some to Greta, can't hurt!

Thanks Janet, but I believe you  ::MonkeyCool::

The statement of Joran is probably missing / destroyed for a good reason ;-). If that happened; no doubt that there will be one if this case goes to court...just not one that has been made on 31st of may 2005 but a bit later on....jmo.

I don't think the confession is a scheme; Peter R. de Vries wouldn't have done that....he uses unusual sources sometimes but he's doing things with the right intentions. He has his heart in the right place. Yes, if he only thought of the case he would have handled things differently; but he's not a cop...he's in television. The idea he would cooperate in such a scheme is beyond words for me....I really don't believe it.

And Patrick might have made some mistakes when it comes to his questioning....I think he did a great job. The pressure he had been under, afraid Joran would find out, not trying to cross the line so Joran would shut up. I could imagine he was on edge while the confession was going on. I'll cut him some slack for his screw ups  ::MonkeyWink::


You are right about your comment about Joran and the disposal of a body - the charge. However the judges wanted more back up evidence for this than the confession....Joran stated he lied (and thus didn't confess) so it's up to the ALE to proof Joran wrong. I assume that's a difficult job since it's been almost 3 years & well...you know...Joran knows how to make up a story  ::MonkeyWink::

If Freddie wasn't there that night he got his story from Joran...and Joran had every reason in the world to include Deepak & Satish in his storyline ;-)
If Deepak & Satish are innocent (when it comes to the dissapearance / murder itself of course..they did lie for Joran & have a responsibility when it comes to having some blame because if they told the truth crucial evidence might have been found...well the whole case would have been different probably) they have been able to do some hard time thinking the last couple of weeks.
The Kalpoes might want to open up a bit more since the confession...but they still live on Aruba & have a lot to loose. And even then...it's still their word against Paulus & his buddies....I'm hoping for the best but I'm afraid they will stay on the safe side (and couldn't really blame them...well maybe a bit...but then again I've never been in their situation). It is weird they haven't been heard / seen given a statement / quote about the confession....or am I wrong about that & did I miss something?

I think Paulus' ass will always be covered (whatever his involvement has been).....by his son, his buddies at the ALE & the fear of the Kalpoe Brothers & ?????.

And when it comes to Patrick knowing the van der Sloots....7 years? Where did that come from?  What he meant in the conversation with Pontje was that he knew about he case for years...not the van der Sloots. Where did the 7 years come from? Is this from something else? A different interview / quote?

Living on Aruba near the Kalpoes? When did this happen? Years and years ago? Patrick has been around in Arnhem for a long time already...that's information coming from people that live in / around Arnhem.
Doesn't explain the information but Patrick did say he has family there; maybe there are more van der Eems or there is another reason for it...but for now I will take Patrick's word for it & assume my friends aren't crazy  ::MonkeyWink::

Ah well Janet....I really don't know what to think or to believe....sometimes I think: just send them all to Guantanamo Bay & let those interrogators do their job....and I'm shocked that I would think that way even for a split second.

Welcome Briany & I agree with you!

Tamikosmom...Here is the link where the discussion first started, as I am not sure if the times of the posts are correct as I was not logged in when I copied and pasted the quotes. First post is Caps #1764 and continues on the next page and my post is the last on the subject as far as I have found and can recall.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1760

Good Morning Mum.  I have to go read the Shango thread.  I haven't had time lately.

I agree with you that I hope someone is saving his posts.  Screen captures would be great because it will show you that we did not change his words.

Hi GBMW..You will need to read back from page 4 until this morning to make any sense of the above in red...though I am still trying...LOL

Or maybe Jorik just read the post above his posting and wanted to ask Patrick about it?  Not everything happens with the intent to mislead, cover up or give false information.

Goedemorgen Johan....nou ja..goedemiddag!

Welcome Briany!!!
I agree with you. I think Patrick's tapes are very legitimate. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look at the tapes now and ask why he didn't say this, or ask that...he did the best he could in the moment..imho.
I think what is happening is the arrogance that Patrick shows now, is starting to cloud our good judgement on what a great deed he did with those tapes...but in all honesty, only someone as arrogant as Patrick could have jumped in that car and drove him around for 5 months trying to extract the truth. Every trait has a positive and a negative impact on people in different scenarios. Patrick is what he is, he rubbed me wrong with his comments and letter on the Boycott and protests, by I am trying to separate that from what he did with joran and the tapes, but it is that same arrogance that also caused him to become involved in the case and get joran to confess what he did. Is it the whole truth? We all know it isn't, but I think it is clearly a big chunk of the truth, eveidenced by the questions Jug and Beth were asked immediately about Natalee's medical history. I think it does bring Beth and her family and friends some peace, I think it definately brings Beth some vindication, because as she said, THAT is the joran she knew...the one in the tapes, and now the rest of the world knows.
I also firmly believe joran never had any idea he was being taped. My opinion only, all I have to do is look at the interviews he did as compared to those tapes...his true colors came out in thosed taped recordings. For that I am very thankfor to Patrick.

I thought alot about Patrick's responses to the protests and boycott...he responded to two of my e-mails...deleted another..lol...and his responses really worked me up!!! But I think that we and Patrick know two different sides of Aruba. I believe he is very sincere in his defense of Aruba because he knows the everyday people of Aruba and they are good to him. We are sincere in our dislike and distrust of Aruba, and we all know the reasons for that!! I will respect Patrick's defense of Aruba although I will never buy it and will continue to protest at travel shows. I am very dissappointed he did not show me the same respect, but I can't take away what he did to move this case again with those tapes.

sorry for all the misspellings!! Haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet!! Lil

did it again!!! LOL...I won't post again until my eyes are fully open!!

Thanks, have been reading the posts just now. And I still believe Patrick has known Joran only since the summer of 2007.

Knowing each other longer / for years, this confession being a big scheme......well to me that's just absurd.

GBMW, Dayhiker, briany

I agree with your posts.

I don't think Patrick is the brightest light in the forest.  It would have made sense to ask Joran followup questions.  Patrick responds to points, on his blog, with the same answers.  He seems to have a problem with listening and discussing. He thinks he has all the answers, already.  A lot can be missed with that kind of thinking.

Other things were brought up, in the taping.  Paulus and the cell phone, the deal with compensation and all the smoking would have been hedged or not brought up, at all, if Joran was in on it.  Image was everything to Joran (and Anita).  I just don't believe they would have planned this display.

ok...STILL not forgetting the good deeds Patrick did...but comments like these really cause me to lose respect.
From Patrick's latest post:

[/i][/color]

AAAHHHHHH!!! Pulling my hair out now in frustration!!! ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

EXCELLENT post by Justice for Natalee!!! Absolutely terrific!!
Patrick's response..same old sheet we have been hearing for 3 years. Those opposed to a boycott can't even get creatice!! Just throw out the same old same old...crime in US...blah, blah, blah...but when I saw the comment that suggested if Natalee had been black she never would have gotten the coverage she did....well...all I can say is:

[/i]

Good point Buckeye! A scheme isn't likely at all....and why would they have done it anyway? The case was closed since december 2007! Joran & everyone else involved in the case got away with it.....at least that's what they thought  ::MonkeyCool::

Good Morning Lou,

     It was me and I added the last sentence because I am sick of Aruban games.  I very carefully wrote that sentence not as an accusation, but as an expression of my feelings after having learned information.  I left it open for a response.  I was also very careful not to make a single negative comment about Patrick.  In fact, I expressed appreciation because he exposed Joran and brought Natalee's case back into the news.  I go right through the roof when people from Aruba respond to Natalee's disappearance by pointing at crime in the US.  This is not about the US.  We have crime, but that does not exhonerate Aruba from what happened.  Does US crime make Natalee's disappearance OK?  I also went through the roof when Patrick made a suposition that we would not care about an African American girl.  I will not sit by while he refers to me as racist.  I will not tolerate that.  Patrick did not respond to the last sentence in my blog post until many hours later, after "Jorik" confronted my statement.  I don't know if the video was planned in advance with Joran.  It could certainly have been planned with some of those we know at ALE and AHATA.  Either way, we all know that the contents of that tape are not accurate.  It certainly gives a very simplistic resolution to a very complicated crime.  It seems to me that the video provides protection for everyone except Natalee, which is a typical ALE/AHATA ploy.

Id, You are right, I think...He got on my nerves also, because of his arrogance, but maybe its because of it that he was able to even stand dealing with joran...who knows..but I will continue the boycott no matter what he says, and while some info was forthcoming from joran, Patrick didnt solve the case...which is to bad. Im wondering if he really speaks with Beth? Any idea????

Good Morning Lisa...Have some coffee and quit reading his stupid blog...you'll get an ulcer!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Knowing the Natalee case more than 7 years? Or about 7 years?



That could make sense, or? ::MonkeyDance::

Does anybody know something about the carwashing of the Kalpoe brothers in the middle of the night?
In Holland people wrote some neighbours seen or heard the Kalpoe brothers while they were washing their car the morning after Natalee disappeared.

Are there any officials statement or is this just a rumour? ::MonkeyCool::

It was a great post SS. I think we have approached Patrick with logical explanations of our views and legitimate questions and are repeatedly responded to by the same old rhetoric garbage. I think it shows a very clear mindset on the part of some people from Aruba. I don't want to say all...I don't have the knowledge to say that...but as I said in the DC travel section, if this is our "friend" and this is his mindset, it makes me all the more determined to continue the protests and boycott!!

roflmao!!! You are correct!! Getting as bad as RU!! lol
However...paints a picture for me and makes me even more determined to continue coming to the protests!!!

I have no idea if he has continued contact with her...but I will just go with Vietvets comments...you boycott us...and we'll boycott you...or something of that nature...works for me!!

Hi Briany and Welcome...I think there is something in the PV's...give me a little bit and I will try and find it for you. Or at least the links! Be back in a few!

This is Patrick's response to my blog post this morning.  It's like talking to a six year old.

April 19th, 2008 at 4:27 am

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Boycott = a group’s NONVIOLENT refusal to have commerical dealings with an organization in protest against its policies.

PATRICK’S RESPONSE

A boycott is a violent instrument, which hurts the little people most, actually the people who are always the biggest victims of crime. The only non-violent protest against crime takes place in a court-of-law or in democratic institutions (with all their failings). However a focused boycott can be a good instrument, for instance against a company that makes products through child labor. Of course that also hurts the little people working in that company and that is why such a boycott should only be called for when the evidence is based on pure facts and not consipracy theories, judged by people who are trained to do so.

In Holland some people say The Scared Monkeys are racists.


I never noticed this is a racist forum myself. ::MonkeyConfused::

Thanks.

Thank you!!! We may have some "conspiracy theories" lol but I have never seen a racists remark in all the time I have been reading here!! I think most of the people agree also that there are good people in Aruba, from reading Beth's book and listening to interviews, the family was treated exceptionally well by the locals. I love the story of the cab driver who took Beth to the Catholic Church that had the crosses where she felt some peace at last. That became her refuge I believe. But that has nothing to do with encouraging US tourists to visit another location until things change and Natalee and her family receives justice.

All this response says to me is that it's still the same mindset as we all have dealt with for almost 3 years...the 3 year anniversary is approaching fast.  My only response would be to ask this...If the boycott was so distasteful in Patrick's mouth why did he not say so when he had the opportunity while giving interviews and such?  This boycott thing seems to be the sole reason for doing what he did...oops! I forgot, and to obtain money...so it appears to me that there is much fence straddling here on his part.  Funny, he didn't realize that a simple confession of an accident on Joran's part and the unknown Daury disposal would put this all behind Aruba and actually make him a hero in their eyes. I never trusted him and still don't.  W

Sorry, hit post before my thoughts were complete...trying to listen to the Pope and type at the same time....what I was going to say was this...

We must be cautious and suspicious of all that remove Joran and the Kalpoes from any guilt in this case. Those identified from the beginning are still involved in some way.  Even the lower ranks in ALE seemed to want to help until the pressure was placed and they began to shut up out of fear. Too many on Aruba have been silenced into submission. We must question any and all motives until there is proof beyond doubt that what someone says is true..otherwise we are all like sheep being led over the cliff. Take RU for example.

I have never trusted him and still don't either.
He did a great deed...he really did...it opened doors for Beth and brought the story into the mainstream again, for that I am forever grateful.
But he is not the hero of this saga, Beth is, the people who have worked relentlessly to keep the story going and to help with the investigation. People like Tim Miller...who do and do and do for others at great sacrifice to his own family and never asks for anything except for the next family in crisis...those are the kind of people who are heroes to me.

Briany…I believe there is more so will post the link for the documents at the bottom…also the Kalpoes neighbors were questioned.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/deepak69.htm
 Deepak’s PV of  6/09/2005

On May 29th 2005 I was called before closing time of the business where I work by Joran. (with Joran is meant suspect J.A.P. van der Sloot; comment by reporting officers). I was working. We close approximately at 22.00 hours. I assume that Joran called me at approximately 21.50 hours. Joran had asked me if I had to work the next day. I had told him that I had to work tomorrow afternoon. He then asked me whether I wanted to go with to "Carlos & Charlies", because he had met a few girls and wanted to meet them again in "Carlos & Charlies". I agreed and told him that I would pick him up later. A little before 23.00 hours I drove home. I ate something at home together with my brother Satish and after that I vacuumed the carpet on the inside of my car. (with Satish is meant the suspect S.S. KALPOE; comment reporting officers). My sister Angie was already asleep. My mother was not home, she was working. The man with whom my mother is married, was also at work. While we ate I had asked Satish if he wanted to come to "Carlos & Charlies". After I finished vacuuming I went and took a shower
Documents…
http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm

May be you expect too much of Patrick. He delivered the tape. That's it. De case was closed and now it is (hopefully still) open again. He has a different opinion about boycotting Aruba than some other people. So what!

Briany, there is a wealth of knowledge and research here at Scared Monkeys. Maybe you could direct some of the posters in the Dutch forums to those threads. It tells the story of Natalee's dissappearance and the cover up so well....through the pvs and statements and early interviews.

Anita and joran would have went along with this whole scheme IF it meant the case would go away and joran would only have to spend a couple of months locked up in a loony bin.I can see them both going along with that.

Briany, I think he just rubs people the wrong way, but regardless...he should be commended for what he did.

I can respect his opinion that the Boycott hurts too many people...but what really surpised me I think was that he stated he did not believe there was ever a cover up. But then again...I have to remember he came came in late in the game. So many who becoming involved in the case did not exeperience what we did with Jansen, Dompig...oh...gosh...we could go on and on.

Maybe for the new posters, we should go back to the beginning and lay out the history of the cover-up, characters, etc. Heck, I could use a refresher course too. I would love to put it all together with the newer info we have now. I think the newer posters should also go through the timeline, witness statements etc. It will also show althought I believe joran told part of the story...it is not all of the truth...so they don't think we are just conspiracy nuts!!! lol

I guess we should keep them away from the 'Shango' thread then!... ::MonkeyHaHa::

lol

That's a good idea. Back to the beginning. There are a lot of Dutch readers these days. I also believe in a cover up, but it is also possible that this is about a baby cover up, we do not know.
So what's the story.......

The car was washed before Natalee went in the car? Is that it?

Joran said in the tape The Kalpoe brothers are not involved at all. They had nothing to do with this, Joran said.
Is that possible?

car was washed in the wee hours after Natalee "disappeared". Greta actually interviewed the neighbors that made the claim last time she was in Aruba.

Baby cover up? as in a small one vs large cover up?
If it's an actualy "baby" cover up...people do know that is not the case. If these theories are still flying around up there...we DO need to go back to Day 1 for our new posters.

Briany wrote:
No it's not possible, IMO.  In the least, the Kalpoes were part of the kidnapping of Natalee.  Early reports were that all 3 had sex with her, if that is true then the Kalpoes are also guilty of rape.  There is no way Natalee would voluntary have sex with all thee of them let alone one.  It is possible that the Kalpoes were not present when Natalee died.

morning Klaas!!!

I think this is why we should go back to the beginning. Refresh our memories on the details and educate the new posters and readers.

Joran sure spent a lot of time trying to throw the Kalpoes under that bus for them to become innocent as the driven snow all of a sudden.  Many rumors and many theories some have Deepak escorting Natalee to the car and others have Satish a little more involved.  Why would Satish feel the need to ask, "How's the girl?" if nothing happened?  Why does Deepak refer to "see that chit" if nothing happened.  Regardless of what anyone says, they were there at some point and unless they are complete fools to allow to happen to them what has happened...they are involved.  As I have often said...Deepak was the person in the driver's seat and he had the opportunity to protect Natalee that night...he could have been a man and took her back to her hotel or even insisted she get out of that car.  He didn't...he allowed a young woman to be taken advantage of knowing she was not able to defend herself at the moment...that alone implicates him in this entire mess. No one gets a free pass from me.

I agree Mom.  The primary thing that led me to the video as a probable sham was the use of the name Daury Rodriguez.  That name came out of nowhere on the video and within a few weeks either way of the video release, Daury Rodriguez and his family ended up in NJ and NY jails for the exact amount (8 kilos) of heroin.  There is an 8 kilo connection here.  When Patrick was arrested, how much was in his possession?  Was Daury part of a drug deal that went bad and resulted in Patrick's arrest?  This is why I have felt that Joran could have been prepped for the video.  First he said that he could never reveal the name and then suddenly, Daury Rodriguez is on every airwave.

LOL...Major migraine coming on...Tried this a while ago with the PV's, MSM-Nancy, Greta etc, and the FP posts, ROBs and then ventured to other forums. Have to tell you I only got as far as about June 11th.

Not an easy task!!

Sorry...RBN - here at SM. Problem was, the more I read, the more questions I had, and then I had to post more, which led to more discussion, which lead to more searching for answers, which led to no more back reading time...LOL

I agree that the Kalpoes were definitely involved.  They were part of the kidnapping and Deepak at least was probably part of the rape.  I think that a lot of focus was put on the Kalpoes by both the press and Paulus because they were the ones who were seen driving away with Natalee.  I have always wondered if the original gambling/video party took place at one location (Matty's Apartments?) and then Natalee was driven to the Sloot home.  At that point, the Kalpoes might have left and gone home to wash their car.  I think that the Kalpoes have been scared and rewarded by Paulus and the higher powers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't part of her actual death.

I agree.

Why did VdS prevented the search of his own house?
If your son is a suspect in a murdercase that not a very logical thing to do for a lawyer, or?

Maybe the Kalpoe brothers dropped Joran and Natalee somewere.

In the first reports I do not read anything about sex with Nathalee and the Kalpoe brothers.

Maybe they helped hiding the body the next day for money. Beth told in her book the Kalpoe brothers were sandy when she saw the Kalpoe brothers.

Just a speculation.

SS
The fact that Joran even mention the name Daury makes me suspicious.  You would be this way too if you had seen some of the crap spewed forth from the likes of Julia and her minions at another location I won't mention again...the vile posts on so many sites has hardened me to the point that nothing I read or hear do I take as gospel until those saying it are willing to defend it.  That is why I carry Old Fart's bag of salt with me at all times.

Why the big deal about a boycott?  Aruba says that all is fine
and the boycott has had no impact.  According to their official stats
tourism has never been better.  Only three state governors in the
US backed Beth in the boycott.  How can three states matter?

I believe that Aruba's own actions have contributed more to the
lack of tourists than anything else.

It is another case of blaming the victim

I agree again  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Basically as soon as I heard that the Kalpoes were happy with Joran's confession that was all the proof I needed.  It raised my eyebrows and I said hummm something isn't right here.  Besides Joran's actions in the car which was proof enough for me to believe this was another hatched plan by Aruba.

[/quote]

Welcome Briany!!!
I agree with you. I think Patrick's tapes are very legitimate. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look at the tapes now and ask why he didn't say this, or ask that...he did the best he could in the moment..imho.
I think what is happening is the arrogance that Patrick shows now, is starting to cloud our good judgement on what a great deed he did with those tapes...but in all honesty, only someone as arrogant as Patrick could have jumped in that car and drove him around for 5 months trying to extract the truth. Every trait has a positive and a negative impact on people in different scenarios. Patrick is what he is, he rubbed me wrong with his comments and letter on the Boycott and protests, by I am trying to separate that from what he did with joran and the tapes, but it is that same arrogance that also caused him to become involved in the case and get joran to confess what he did. Is it the whole truth? We all know it isn't, but I think it is clearly a big chunk of the truth, eveidenced by the questions Jug and Beth were asked immediately about Natalee's medical history. I think it does bring Beth and her family and friends some peace, I think it definately brings Beth some vindication, because as she said, THAT is the joran she knew...the one in the tapes, and now the rest of the world knows.
I also firmly believe joran never had any idea he was being taped. My opinion only, all I have to do is look at the interviews he did as compared to those tapes...his true colors came out in thosed taped recordings. For that I am very thankfor to Patrick.

I thought alot about Patrick's responses to the protests and boycott...he responded to two of my e-mails...deleted another..lol...and his responses really worked me up!!! But I think that we and Patrick know two different sides of Aruba. I believe he is very sincere in his defense of Aruba because he knows the everyday people of Aruba and they are good to him. We are sincere in our dislike and distrust of Aruba, and we all know the reasons for that!! I will respect Patrick's defense of Aruba although I will never buy it and will continue to protest at travel shows. I am very dissappointed he did not show me the same respect, but I can't take away what he did to move this case again with those tapes.
[/quote]

i totally agree with you, idsltlou.  and why, if peter and patrick were in cahoots with the "save jvds" crowd, why would they have allowed him to show himself as the misogynistic sociopath we've know for almost 3 years.  if this was all planned, jvds would have shown up planning on opening a new orphans and children's home instead of planninng a marijuana plantation.  patrick got lied to a lot in those tapes, jvds is a mental case but he isn't stupid.  really, the only thing jvds didn't lie about to some extent was that he was with natalee when she died.  or was thought dead.  that's the first and only time we know of that he's admitted that to anyone other than the people who helped him dispose of natalee's body.  my own opinion is that natalee died of daterape drugs or violently by jvds' hands as she resisted his advances.  there is absolutely no other explanation for not calling 911 and leaving her on the beach for the emt's  and police to find.

as far as castro's tape is concerned, it was done with no other intention in mind than to discredit peter and patrick's work.  castro is as much a part of the aruban disinformation crowd as gielen and renfro.  anything the 3 of them say is assumed to be full of lies and totally biased against natalee and her family, and they have the complete backing of the aruban govt. and tourism organizations for their lies and disinformation.

if you read rudy croes' outburst about banning the sloot's from the island, he does not condemn jvds for what he had done to natalee.  he condemns him for reopening the wounds to the islands reputation and tourism business by not continuing to hide out and let the case die as they have all expected and worked toward. now, with the whole world knowing what kind of person jvds is, and that the island and his family have known about jvds' true nature, they cannot continue with their plans to just close every thing down.
dennisintn

Magnolia I agree with your entire post.

Mom,

     In addition to the name Daury Rodriguez, I started to question the simplistic way in which everything in the tragedy was resolved.  The world knows that Joran has responsibility, but the tape minimizes it and if he were to go to trial based on the contents of the tape, his only charge would probably be involuntary manslaughter and possibly illegal disposal of a body.  Based on the murder options, this wouldn't be bad.  Those involved with the bigger video/gambling parties are completely left out.  Satish and Deepak are left out and this would take care of concerns that they would sing.  Paulus and other adults are removed from the scenario.  The friends of Joran who have been arrested and interviewed are left out.  Joran has a constant joint in his mouth which gives Joe Taco a great defense for drug addiction and the poor kid didn't know what he was doing.  Look how fast he was sent to rehab, when the world had known he was involved with drugs and alcohol for years.  A drug addiction diagnosis is a whole lot milder than a personality disorder diagnosis.  The world would see that Beth had finally received an explanation for Natalee's death and to throw some icing on the cake, Daury Rodriguez was pulled in to possibly settle a score that has nothing to do with Natalee Holloway.  The video is too clean and it smacks of an Aruba coverup.  Afterall, aren't we finding that these Arubans are very experienced with video tapes?

OMG San, that is priceless!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Welcome Briany ::MonkeyTongue::

::MonkeyHaHa::

Links no longer work.



An online newspaper, AM Digital, hosted at Aruba.com has reported that the three men involved in the Natalee Holloway disappearance claimed to have had sexual relations with the 18 year old Alabama high school senior at the beach prior to returning her to her hotel at approximate 2 AM. A pdf file of the publication is available on this page. Look for the AM Digital link at left.

http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am04jun05.pdf

Authorities
                decided to comb the
                above mentioned area
                after interrogating
                the three young men
                that were last seen
                with Natalee. The
                three young men
                declared that the took
                Natalee to that area,
                had s*x with her, and
                then dropped her at the
                Holiday Inn Resort. The
                security cameras
                of the resort
                however do not
                show her entering
                the hotel at any
                time that evening.
                As a result of this
                the three witnesses
                who saw her last
                now become
                suspects.
                then dropped her at the
                security cameras
                of the resort
                however do not
                show her entering
                the hotel at any
                time that evening.
                As a result of this
                the three witnesses
                who saw her last
                now become
                suspects.
               


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/316295p-270617c.html


Plenty of early reports of all three involved.

If there was a beach, I have always felt it was Arashi.

San, you are too funny. ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

Patrick's explanation ... not friendship but common nationality ... common language is the reason for the "lingo".

Caps ... is your contention that Patrick had known Joran prior to the encounter in the casino based on anything other than the Castro interview.  There are youtube videos of that interview ... What is the correct English translation in regards to what Patrick actually said?

Thank you

Janet

+++++++

Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
By CHRIS CUOMO and CHRIS FRANCESCANI
Feb. 4, 2008

The entire operation began by chance in a Dutch casino. Van der Eem, a bold and emotional Dutch businessman who had never met van der Sloot before but followed the case with a passion, ran into his eventual target and claimed he decided on the spot to try and get inside the head of a man he believed had disgraced their nation.

"Getting involved is hard, you know, but I knew if I could have done something, or can do in the future, I will," he said.

"And when you saw him in the casino,'' ABC News' Chris Cuomo asked him, "you said this is your chance?"

"And I will finish him,'' van der Eem replied, explaining that he'd grown frustrated watching van der Sloot tell one news organization after another that the Aruban people are "with'' him.

"The Aruban people are good people who will give you the trust, because the justice system sometimes fails a little bit. But I knew there was something wrong in this story,'' van der Eem said.

Van der Eem adopted a strategic approach.

He walked up to van der Sloot and said without introduction, "Hey murderer'' in Papiamento, the official language of Aruba.

He said he knew that "nobody on the other table would understand what I said to him because we live here in Holland and … we talk Dutch.''

After getting van der Sloot's attention, van der Eem said, "I went, 'How are you doing? Fine?' And I walked away. I went smoking a cigarette. And two minutes later he came [over].''

Van der Eem struck up a conversation with van der Sloot and began asking him how he spent his summer. The young man replied that he played poker and smoked marijuana, van der Eem said, and the "game was started."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=2

Welcome to SM

“In the early morning hours of Monday morning, Deepak methodically and uncharacteristically cleaned his sliver Nissan, claiming that it had “ants” in it
(source: CIVIL SUIT filed in New York)



June 05, 2005
An online newspaper, AM Digital, hosted at Aruba.com has reported that the three men involved in the Natalee Holloway disappearance claimed to have had sexual relations with the 18 year old Alabama high school senior at the beach prior to returning her to her hotel at approximate 2 AM


VAN SUSTEREN: Has the prosecutor ever said to you, Beth, I'm convinced he's guilty of committing a crime against your daughter?
TWITTY: She has said that she is convinced that this was a sex crime that involved at least two of these individuals, and she had specifically told me that.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,170558,00.html

MANSUR: they have a very solid case on sexual assault.  There have been admissions to that fact, so the police and the prosecution can move forward on that basis


"Two of the boys said they had consensual sex with her. Whether consensual or not, depends on her ability to be conscious and make a choice," said Cohen.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/18/steve-cohen-two-of-the-boys-said-they-had-consensual-sex-with-her-really/
http://www.caribvoice.org/travel&tourism.html



JANUARY 19, 2006
On the website of the Task Force, Aruba Truth is an article on Cohen’s speech at a conference of the Caribbean Hotel Association (CHA) in Puerto Rico, in which he said that two of the boys had consensual sex with Holloway.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/arubatruthcohen011806.JPG
http://www.amigoe.com/english/


Dr. Phil question to John Q. Kelly:
Dr. Phil directs his next question to John. "Your clear belief is that there is evidence already, just in the boys' own words, that constitutes enough of a confession for them to be prosecuted at least for inappropriate sexual conduct, and/or rape, true?"

SAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

  Please allow me to place my name in agreement here also .
  I am of the opinion that Patrick is having trouble handling all of the attention that he has received .
  When it started to die down he wanted more time and if he could make $$ from it he also wanted that also but his impatience for his " BIG " payoff  has probably sunk that ship  look at peter D  he just seems to be lying low and waiting to see where this all will lead  and then he will again have another story to add to his credit .  JMO on all this .
  And I also have never seen racist opinions surface on SM  and we all have Klaas to thank for keeping that type of BS under control  Hat Tip to Klaas and Red also .
   Jerry fro Ohio

At one point in time, Tom or Red (the original owners of this blog) discussed the reason for the name and the need for political activism.  I can't find that post.  For those relatively new, the blog was created before Natalee went missing.  Red had actually lived in Aruba and took part in the landfill search with Dave Holloway.  I've read here a long time and this blog has never been racist (maybe a little right winged, politically..lol).  The racist belief was started at a site that actually has "journalists" from Aruba, posting slander regarding Natalee and her family.  They labeled anyone that supported Natalee a monkkkey.  The name has no relationship to reality.

About Us

The Bloggers started out in High School. Tom and Red were stuck in the middle of Connecticut, and escaped through a combination of luck and skill.

Through the years, and yes there were many years, they remained friends, talking about sports and women, and then sport and news and wives as they aged.

With the advent of the internet, they started wasting lots of time finding interesting information and sending it to each other. First it was the news sites, and then soon they found the blogs.

On a cold and rainy day at the end of February, 2005 they started a blog. This blog, Scared Monkeys, soon became a better time waster, and also to the surprise of Tom and Red, a popular site on the internet.

CNN, MSNBC, Slate, and many other publications quoted and featured them on shows, and appearances on regional radio and television followed.

Now they have expanded their offerings into new blogging enterprises named The Bloggers covering many of topics they follow. It shall be an interesting trip as they progress.

Thanks for coming along for the ride.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/about-us/

 ::MonkeyDance::

Hi Buckeye…I came across one of my posts at one of those sites, accidently, during a search. The MumInOhio had been changed to KKKinOhio, by a certain lawyer? named Charlie! Imagine my surprise to see this on a google search!

So it appears the slander is not only directed at Natalee and her family. Still reading here Charlie?   ::MonkeyWink::

Only if you want to negate the gardener's observation/ testimony as well as the Freddy's witness statement.

Janet

++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
Translation Credit: Rammstein


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I know one thing that Deepak Kalpoe did in August was, when the gardener came before the judge of instruction to give sworn testimony of witnessing those three suspects together in the Kalpoe brothers' car that night at the pond, across the street from the Marriott, it was in front of the prosecutor, in front of the defense, the judge of instruction, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, Joran Van Der Sloot.

Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Hi everyone,

as I said before, I'm not at all sure what to think about Patrick, and I promised myself I would not buy any books that were written by those that have an agenda. No sense furthering that cause or lining their pockets. I see that most here will not buy the Patrick book. I totally understand... but how will we know what he has written? I guess I will buy it, read it and write a report on any info that seems relevant. Someone has to.

We still don't even know what was said in the rest of the tapes... and what ever happened to the other 9 confessions?

there were 20 hours of tapes and I have only seen a few snips.

someone has to read that piece of crap Patrick is writing.

I hate to admit this, but I want to know more about Patrick and his motives, should there be any.

typical of Arubans... go on strike and STILL wanting to be paid... yep, typical.

and a double negative on top on that . . .  ::MonkeyHaHa::

caesu

Thanks for the article.

Oduber:
He is under the impression that the employers’ organizations have an incorrect image of the situation. 

Maybe he can hire Arlene, to explain to the Arubans, that they just don't understand his system.  Certainly it can't be "the language" barrier.    ::MonkeyTongue::

Right on San!!!!!!! ::MonkeyDance::

Since I am responding to Kermit  ::MonkeyWink::
What do you mean, "I look a little green today"?

(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4198/showletter4up4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

awwwwww, too cute *******!    ::MonkeyHaHa::

I think Aruba was hit with even higher inflation then us here in the states and they have every right to be Protesting! I am curious what these Aruban's say to the Anita and PVDS when they see them on the street? Is Anita Indexing with the others? After all the issue is not just about salaries,as I think it's clear there is a bigger issue at hand as the Aruban economy has taken a hit. Theres a couple people on that island and in holland that know more about what happened to Natalee,but will only talk at there choosing  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Tamikosmom, Rob, Peaches, San, Nut44x4, johan555, sirensong, dennisintn and 17 Guests are viewing this board.

++++++++

 ::MonkeyShocked::

Peaches ... I see ya.

Have ya doing hon?

Hugs

Janet

Biiiig Hugs to Peaches!!!!!! She probably came here to check up on updates on Natalee before visiting her own thread!! We love you Peaches!  ::MonkeyWink::

Good afternoon from scenic Seven East.  I am ambulating independantly.  I'm stilll on ice chips because the doctor had to resect my duodenum and he doesn't want to upset my stomach.  My surgeon says I have been optimally debulked and am currently NED (no evidence of disease).  So in a couple weeks, I'll head back to the gyn-onc and see what comes next.

Thanks for all your prayers and support. 

The doctor's nurse told me last week that I could be in the hospital from 5-7 days (just shoot me now) but I think Dr. D. may be starting to see my side of things.  I don't feel bad.  Yeah, the incision site is  sore but it's not that bad.  It may be this ON-Q , a medicine filled cue ball looking thing which continually infuses pain meds.

PEACHES!!!!   ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::  GREAT TO SEE YOU! 

Posted at RU by Pragmatist today:

Was Joran out for an innocent night of fun? Or was he a predator?

By all criminal profiling standards a Predator will make himself appear harmless, disinterested etc so as not to draw attention to his intention to take a victim. He will pretty much show very little emotion or give any clue to his sadistic nature until the moment at which he will make his fantasy real. Joran behaved this way, but was it his real personality, or the one his predatorial needs dictated he use?

By all accounts Joran behaved like a good guy with nothing up his sleeve. By contrast GVC -it is said- behaved openly interested in sexual behaviors with the MB girls as he pissed Natalee off by bumping on her on the dance floor which subsequently pissed off some of Natalee's male classmates. GVC was not hiding anything, but Joran apparently WAS hiding the fact that he wanted to have sex with a tourist before she went home. Why did Joran hide this intention unless he is of the Predatory Mindset?

Joran's shyish and aloof -albiet helpful and kind -behavior that made the MBies feel safe around him, IF he was the Predatory type, was only a Predator's game to get someone's goat. Like he couldn't have a good time getting it on with a tourist unless he was deceiving her into it, thus he was thinking he needed a victim, not a consensual partner. He needed an object, not a person with feelings.

Now since we know Joran does like to play the 'get everybody's goat' game via his constant lying and manipulating of his parents, the cops etc it seems Joran has predatorial patterns which please his senses more than being innocently honest.

If Joran was a predator, then it is likely he may have hurt Natalee even if his intention was not to actually hurt her to the point of getting in trouble. He says himself he'd 'done this' many times before but nothing went wrong. With predators they don't really want anything to go wrong because that would pretty much make it harder to continue their predatory game. Joran is now mad at Natalee, as he said, and probably the reason (in predator rationale) would be because his association with her caused him to have to put his game on hold due to so much attention being brought to him after something went wrong.

But on the flip side.....if Joran were not a predator and actually was seduced by Natalee as he objected due to no condom and needing to get home to sleep for school the next day whereupon he left her, she disappeared and he has no knowledge of what became of her then he would indeed be the fine young man the MB girls say he was and an innocent victim in all this, but it could just be the boy-next-door type a predator displays to the public.

To me his behavior follows predatory patterns. Natalee's behavior certainly follows the pattern of becoming a victim to a predator. So in all the theoretical possibilities of what became of Natalee, the one I think most possible is that Joran is a predator and something unexpected happened with his fantasy that night that caused Natalee to go missing. I think his game was upset by an impulsive anger. He simply lost his cool and messed up his own game.

If he had been up front and honest about wanting to hook up with one of the MB girls then he would not be in his current situation, IMO. And yeah, FEB or Ruth allegedly said to Joran that Natalee had a shotgun on him, so it could seem he was indeed an innocent victim by taking Natalee up on things (like doing jello shots and then making him drive her away) but I don't think so. I think that just played into his hands as to whom he was going to victimize that night....take a girl who is expecting the gentleman he was portraying himself as and turn bad guy aggressive on her and get a sadistic thrill out of making her upset when she finds out she was tricked.

A predator gets a sadistic thrill out of taking off his mask and becoming who he really is...a sadistic abuser of the type of victim that upsets him most. And in Joran's book he talks about this one true love he had who was a nice girl, whom he treated with proper respect, who left him for one of his friends who did not treat the girl as well as Joran did. This could have been what turned Joran to wanting to mistreat and victimize nice girls like Natalee. There is always a reason why certain types are preyed upon.

So I think Predator, and I think it stems from losing his favorite gf because he was too nice to her. I think Joran set out to NOT believe Natalee when she might say NO and force himself on her as he wished he could have done with his true love in order to have not lost her. In a twisted way, he would have told himself she really meant yes when she said no and he ended up hurting Natalee. This was his fantasy, as I see it. Not that he would end up hurting Natalee, just that he would give her what he thought she really wanted so she'd go off liking him after which he'd shun her and get some closure on being dumped by his true love. (However, since this never really closes any doors for a person who is so hurt, they do keep on with doing it thinking next time he will finally find closure. It becomes a serial type thing then)

It's psycho, I know...but I think it's the most possible, putting all pieces together. I think Joran has rejection issues and Natalee paid the price for his past rejections.

Praise God!!

Peaches

 ::MonkeyWaa::

Tears of happiness ... Tears of gratefulness ... Tears of thankfulness ...

Janet

Sooo Nice to see you Peaches!!!!! You gave us the best news we have heard in a long time..I could picture dozens on Monkeys all around the country walking around with huge smiles on there faces when we heard your updates!

I have never been fond of the name NED until now!  ::MonkeyDance::

For our wonderful Peaches.  ::MonkeyDance:: (http://bestsmileys.com/kissing1/1.gif)

If you are asking me if I expected too much of Patrick?  I expect nothing of Patrick or the PTB on Aruba...that would be too much to ask. LOL  Welcome to the cage!

OBS
Do you have a folder on your computer that says "cuteness"?  Those little kitties are just so adorable.

 Hey Peaches!  Lovin' the lappy I see.

In my 61 years of life ... I have never knew I had a "duodenums".

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet


du·o·de·nums. Anatomy, Zoology. the first portion of the small intestine, from the stomach to the jejunum. 

Something akin to ******* ... I NEVER cared for the name NED but ... this morning I learned to love it.

Peaches ... take care ... get well .. do what the docs thinks best ... they are making the big buck to make the wisest decisions.

Hugs

Janet

Peaches

You sound great.  Still praying here.

I agree with this.  Joran told Ruth McVay and the girls, at the blackjack table, that he was a 19 yr. old soccer player from Holland.  He talks about it in his book, also.  It was (and is) his mask.

I just think it goes back to developmental stages and his relationship with his mother. The "nice" girlfriend just reinforced some pathology.

This showed up in my google alert  ::MonkeyWink::

Comment by Guod
April 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Let’s all give Governor Huckabee a hand. He was one of the only politicians to stand up against Aruba during the Natalee Holloway. Kidnapping, Rape and murder. If he knew how far Gutless Greta has gone to coverup the case. He would have walked away from the troll known as Greta. Keep e-mailing Fox to get the Aruban/Joran lover removed from FOX. BTW- When is Greta gonna start talking about ARUBA? I thought she wanted them to SUE her? But yet she does what they told her to do. They told her to shut up or else. And she has???


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/04/18/friday-morning/#comment-859255

Sorry,

I postes my question in the middle of a post. ::MonkeyHaHa::

So, it is not possible that they drove to the VdS's home straight away?
Why mailing that you are home? Because you were home all the time already?

I don't care what Joran's childhood trauma was...he is a real first class jerk and as far as I am concerned he and the Kalpoes are solely responsible for what happened to Natalee...they were the last with her and they had the power to prevent anything from happening to her regardless of her physical or mental condition and notwithstanding the normal routine of targeting innocents.   

Issues?  We all have issues and I think mine lie squarely with Joran and his cohorts in crime...next would be those allowing this to continue. I think I will go work on my own personal issues now and shut my mouth before I get my blood pressure up.

 ::MonkeyShocked::

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Natalee Holloway was last seen with Joran, Deepak and Satish leaving Carlos 'n Charlies.  The suspects lied over and over again in regards to their last encounter with Natalee.  WHY?

Lies are created to cover the truth.  I ask ... "What truth were Joran, Deepak and Satish" attempting cover.

When Paulus changed his story regarding the pickup from MacDonalds on the morning when Natalee went missing ... I ask ... "What truth was Paulus attempting to cover".

Janet

++++++++++++

Roy Tromp - lead Investigator
Paulus van der Sloot's Interrogator
CBS NEWS
August 5, 2005

Tromp said investigators believe van der Sloot, who turns 18 on Saturday, is the prime suspect and that he had some assistance from his father, Paul, an apprentice judge on the island. "We believe something went wrong with the girl, and the first person you are going to call is your daddy," said Tromp. "In this case, daddy would know exactly what to do." Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished.  "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Aruba.Natalee.Holloway.2.256295.html

If the Kalpoes had nothing to do with the crimes against Natalee they would joyfully hand over all documents that have been requested of them by Dr. Phil's lawyers.  They would defend themselves in court and go forward with their lawsuit against Dr. Phil & Co. and try to will their millions of dollars.

To this day they have not done so.  This means to me that they are the prime suspects which they have been from day one and the truth would be exposed and they would be up shits creek.

Only the guilty have something to hide and they are guilty as hell.

IMOO -- Patrick is desperately trying to hang on to his 15 minutes of fame.
 
And his new found friends in ATA, AHATA (or whatever letters they want to hide behind)  the Aruban gvernment and the cast of usual sub-human players are exploiting Patrick's absence of any type of trait of virtue or character.

He acts like a thug -- which is not surprising because he is a thug.

Again IMOO -- Patrick is the diversionary tactic of 2008. yawn.

The deafening silence continues................


PEACHES -- one more heartfelt shout out to uphold your spirit and share in your journey.



Justice for Natalee

San ... Gerold Dompig concurs.

Janet

+++++++++

Wednesday, April 11, 2007
GEROLD DOMPIG - TRUTH OR DEFAMATION

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/04/gerold-dompig-truth-or-defamation.html

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/03/03/gerald-dompig-in-his-own-words/

i think all the calls and text messaging and computer usage was part of their alibis. 
dennisintn

Excuses me ::MonkeyConfused::

I have the impression that some people on the Scared Monkeys only want to concentrate on blaming Patrick and the boycot.

Why did VdS not want to have searched his own house?

Nobody answers?

I wonder if you really want this solves. If people ask reasonable questions you start blaming people. Come on.
I only want to help and am not interested in boycotting or not boycotting Aruba whatsoever.

The entire dialogue ...

I wonder if this event plays any role at all? Just a coincidence? Out of all the 124 kids why Natalee? Just two days later she was the only one to dissapear :( I believe this did happen but it was not Joran who got into a fight over Natalee but it was Geoffrey Von Comvoirt who started the fight because he was grinding against Natalee's backside when dancing. It was reported a few times that Natalee got slapped but I that would be hard to believe. It's interesting because GVC was arrested in this case and they found a shirt from his fathers company, which has been reported to be linked to this case,possibly with forensic evidence.
=====================
RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
« Reply #330 on: June 24, 2005, 04:10:58 AM »
   
Suspect was in pushing match
Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."

I do think that they drove to the Sloots...even indicated that they were there an did not go in is in the PV's of one of the perps.  Many here think that the crime itself happened on the Sloot property and that could have been the reason for circumventing a full search of the property...word is still out on this one.

Briany…It is not that I did not want to respond, but was posting in another thread. Ben Voking and and Judge Wit(IIRC)otherwise it was Smid, another friend, both friends of Paulus stopped the search.

I am sorry, but I cannot stay and elaborate further as I need to get ready to leave for the evening.

I will gladly discuss this you on Monday morning, around 4AM Ohio time...

Here is your proof that where Patric lived in holland, he was only 15 minutes drive from the Sloot famaly and they know each other since 2003 according to this article.

check it out, it is in Dutch.

http://www.tctubantia.nl/algemeen/binnenland/2579829/Almelose-zakenman-ontfutselt-bekentenis.ece

Briany
What do you think happened at the Sloots and do you think the Kalpoes may have been sucked into a situation they couldn't handle at the time?  I am confused on the baby cover up...is that your way of saying it was just a small cover up by only a few?  Not sure I agree at this time, since the entire island seems to be in super silent mode as to any blame casting...but I am always open for changing my mind should the evidence support it as such.

Think about this. I do not mean that the Kalpoe brothers have nothing to do with this at all, but it is possible that they dropped her at the VdS's house, that's all I wanted to say. The fact that VdS did not want to have searched his house is very suspicious for a lawyer who wants to claim his son is innocent.

For your information: I think Julia Renfro, Renee Gielen and others are presenting the most silly idea's by blaming Natalee and her mother. Besides that, I do not believe in fortunetellers. ::MonkeyHaHa::

Hey Caps!!  I see what you are saying... it was in Holland that he lived near the Sloot family...you didn't mean in Aruba.  In Aruba he lived near the Kalpoes. Now that makes some sense. Thanks.

BTW, you know I can't read Dutch. LOL

Interesting post from the archives as this poster says PVDS was a liason between the Dutch and Aruban Govt's..I think back to when Anita spoke of LVR recently in the paper..She admits Joran and LVR met when they first arrived in Aruba but lies saying LVR was 2-3years older then Joran.
================
   
RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
« Reply #334 on: June 24, 2005, 04:16:38 AM »
Quote from: "Itawamba"
What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.


He's allegedly 26-27 years old.  IF the vdSloot part of his story is true, which I still doubt highly, he would most likely have been born in Holland, possibly Arnehm, where Paulus lived when he was married to Anita and they had Joran.

(I don't know that Arnehm is Paulus's hometown, but it's a known place to start.)  We've heard that Paul was a school teacher before he got into government service in Aruba 10 years ago and did whatever legal training he is supposed to have, whether he has a law degree or not.

Paulus's job in Aruba for the past few years has been as one of the department of Liaison between The Netherlands and Aruba--and I believe, others of the Dutch Antilles.  That is KABNAA and he was appointed to a 3-year term ending in Jan 2006, except that he evidently has been let go since all this started.

So, who is Lorenzo's mother?  Could it be the Deborah vRijn in Oranjestad, perhaps a widow, or is that just too easy?

Lorenzo's "father" on Aruba is said to have been the Volkswagen dealer on the island and he committed suicide three years ago.  The VW dealership that is there now is:

R & S Automotive N.V.
Address: Barcadera 4
Phone: (297) 585-3004 / (297) 585-3008
Fax: (297) 585-9115

Note that it's on Barcadera, not sure exactly where that address is, but one of the very earliest searches for Natalee was in the Barcadera area.  I suppose someone could call them and ask questions about the former (late) owner.  He was said to be well known, obviously, since he was a car dealer who needed to have his company name out in the public.

Lorenzo is said to have two homes on far opposite sides of the island--one a mansion and one brightly painted (may be the same one).  Other vague details are that he has a basement in one of these houses, which is rare on Aruba (if not non-existent, IMO); that he gives "underground" parties, meaning *raves*, which are unruly and unsupervised;  that he is "crazy" himself, or perhaps "touched in the head" since his father's death; that he owns a speedboat; and that he was called in for questioning in Nat's disappearance, just before SG Croes was, but he was not detained.

I think we are on the same page...just doesn't sound like it.  It is entirely possible that the Kalpoes did nothing but drop Joran and Natalee off at the Sloots...only thing is how do you explain them saying they left both of them on the beach.  Remember, the Kalpoes are the ones that after that initial lie and subsequent boondoggle by Steve Croes never wavered in their beach story again. As far as I can tell they still maintain they left Joran and Natalee on the beach by the Marriott.  The same place that Joran now says is where he last saw Natalee alive.  Also, there is cell evidence that one of Joran's calls was made near the area of the McDonald's around 2:26 AM.  Joran was not at his house and I doubt he walked all the way from his house with Natalee in tow to the beach.  Too many gaps in the timelines. Jury is still out on this one also.

Thanks Caps

My youngest son's Dutch American inlaws will be coming to a family gathering tomorrow at our home.  Maybe his FIL will translation the article and ... I will post it on the forum.

Janet

Thanks Caps!

   
ALMELO - The man who act on behalf of crime reporter Peter R. De Vries using a hidden camera Joran van der Sloot a "confession" has ontfutseld, is the origin of Antillean entrepreneur Patrick van der Eem.
See also:

     * No arrest warrant Joran

This 34-year-old Joran knowledge of floats since July 2003 on a franchise basis case snakes and slangkoppelingen in Almelo (under the name Pirtek), but lives in a recreatiebungalow in the Gelderse Lathum, east of Velp.

Van der Eem was born on Curaçao. A brother of him lives on Aruba, where he has a Water SPorts business. His brother who taught Joran van der Sloot and Patrick together. Patrick has himself last autumn when Peter R. De Vries. According to De Vries, Van der Eem a total of five months' undercoveroperatie "against Joran van der Sloot cooperated. He has a monthly expenses of Euro 5000, a total of 25,000 euros.

If home in the Netherlands, Van der Eem a bungalow in the 700-hectare recreation Rhederlaag in Lathum (Zevenaar town). On a 25-acre peninsula in the Rhedermeer lies the bungalow and villapark Riverparc with 350 Recreational. It is 15 minutes from Arnhem, the official residence of Joran van der Sloot. Last Friday he was still partying all evening in Arnhem discovered in Manhattan nightclub. Since Saturday he is hiding. From various sides was reported Saturday that he would stay in Drachten, but it turned out later to a persoonsverwisseling to go.

Van der Eem Almelose opened the establishment on July 14, 2003. Employs eight people. The company is located at the Van der Hoopweg on the industrial Turfkade A. Here yesterday was nobody in sight. Pirtek was reached at an emergency phone. The centralist did not have information on the entrepreneur. However, it was the news about the friendship between Van der Eem and Van der Sloot early penetrated. About Van der Eem were no data available.