Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

A new thread for news and discussions.

PLEASE visit the link below with Tom and Red's WEBLOG for summaries of the information gathered here.

   www.scaredmonkeys.com

Thanks Catriana!

i have no clue if this has been mentioned....

two members confirmed that the pic of a guy with the booze bottle was indeed croes....but neither of them said that this  guy looked different weight wize....

i don't know, if i saw an old pic of someone i knew, i would state that it was infact that person, but would comment on if there were any changes to this person's appearance...the chubby croes looks like a more recent pic, why was this never mantioned by any of the ppl who knew him? do they really know of him?

k

Arubans in this forum did comment on Croes earlier - how "home-cooked meals" were good to him, etc

It's the same guy:

(http://server2.uploadit.org/files/cecelia2000-stevecroes_pic.jpg)

Just wondering, does anyone know if any criminal psychics have offered their services for Natalee's case.  :?:

One of them did mention that he had gained weigth.  we have no reson to doubt the credibility of either od the participants who id this person from personal knowledge.  Besides, it check out.  

:roll:  :roll:  :roll:

The video from FOX, showing them bringing Croes in, showed a very thin guy.

But the photo from MSNBC shows the heavy set guy.

anyone supports my theory

I think the are all involved in a drugs smuggeling scam.

I think they used Joran to seduce her and convince her to smuggel drugs. For a sum of money.
Who is going to check group graduates coming from there vacation.
She consumed small bags of cocaine.To take allong to the U.S. One of the bags broke aand they all panicked.

Why I think that ?

First every week smuggelers are caught in aruba who have cocaine in their bellies

Second, many students of international school of aruba afterwards study in the united states so their is someone to recieve it.

Thirdly in my country lots rich kids consume cocaine,Or are involved in drugs.I asume it is the same for other developed countries. so that is not strange.

Four. When the bags broke they all panicked. And there was an urge to detoxicate her.So who to call on a disc jockey. Good disc jockeys know everyone. That explains the involvement of the d.j. if not he might be the suplier as well .

Five they took her to a place to detoxicate her , to a boat a house.

six still there was no body found , which scrupelous criminal is going to to dump a body full of cocaine.

seven they decided to stay low , that explains the case why there are rumours that she still is alive , and have her afloat within a few days. But there was to much media attention.

plausible theory, could happen but I don't think NH wood do it from what Ive learned about her.

Possibly bendex, or maybe a planned "sting" by the FBI, DEA, and Homeland Security to try to curb the sex and drug trafficing and/or money laundering problem down there.

With no trace evidence, no body, no confessions, and a seemingly changing personality of NH's Mother, this is not a clear picture, and could be anything including your theory.

   This is pretty much a word-for-word recapitulation of the "theory" posted last night by Jankees.

Keep in mind though that Natalee is not what I would call "rich."  She is perhaps professonal middle class--mother a teacher, step dad in management.  

She is not wealthy in the sense that I use it--not the child of a  multi millionaire like Michael Dell or even Shaquille O Neal.

If Bendex is Jankeez then that is a troll and don't feed it.

and ur point is??

Bendex made comments about behavior of "rich" kids.


I was just saying that Natalee is not Paris Hilton for instance.

Does anyone know how many FBI/DEA agents are in Aruba?

Has the number of agents increased or decreased?

I wonder what their time & efforts are costing U.S. taxpayers in dollars & trained personal shortages here at home?

Sure seems like an expensive investigation and a large chunk of national resources for one missing U.S. citizen (although one is ONE too many - I pray for NH's safe return to her loved ones), especially given the U.S border situation & the War on Terror.

It certainly seems to me the NH investigation is far more than a cautionary tale/date rape gone bad crime investigation.

This whole thing is starting to smell  like a fortunate poltical opportunity for the Bush administration. I know G.W. has made drug & human trafficking a  priority , but still can't help but wonder.........

What are people saying in Venezuela?

How many barrels of oil a day are produced there?

Sure would be nice to have SO MUCH oil -  so close to home.

Just wondering.
 :?:

Good morning everyone.  I've been reading up and it seems that the "suspects" are being moved to a prison (hopefully a little rougher than lock-up, as it is here in the US).  Is Croes still being held?

Hello CAT..It's Blondie here to say Hello  :D

LOL! A person after my own heart! There are a lot of Texans on this board, though, so I'd suggest not opening this line of discussion.

I also think there is a much larger investigation going on, although there are posters who claim this is just a distraction to make it appear Aruba is making an effort. Still hope Natalee is found alive and soon.

OK, I understand. Ive known sum "criminal" types and NH doesnt strike as one. she was prob "raised in a bubble" and fairly naive...least thats my feeling.

I think that theory is a little far-fetched personally.  First of all, we have already determined that Nat had a lot more going for her in life than to become a drug smuggler for someone she had only known for a couple of days.  Secondly, why would they try to force someone to do something like that when there is not a shortage for the low-lives that would be more than willing to do this for $.
Nat had no motivation to do this, because she seems to come from a financially comfortable family, and she had her future planned out with a scholarship to UA.  She had a successful happy life ahead of her.
I personally don't buy that in a matter of days, she was convinced to become involved in something like that.  I don't think Joran or any guy has enough charm or good looks to have that kind of affect on most women, but particulary a girl/woman with as much class and ethics as Nat has.
I don't doubt however that the boys might be involved in that line of work.  As a matter of fact, that might be an idea to explore.  Everyone just assumes that this all happened on the basis of sex when in fact it might have been a matter of her being in the wrong place/wrong time on some kind of drug deal the boys were making, and possibly the other people involved took Natalee from them and now they are afraid to tell what they know for fear that along with charges of Natalees kidnapping, they might also be busted for the drugs, or worse, killed by the other drug dealers they might be involved with for providing information.
I hope we find out more soon, it could really be anything.
Klowe

It is not "a prison".. it is "THE" prison, the only prison..

Sry, may Just be semantics, but still..

SL

hello Cat :D .It's Blondie.Here to visit.
Any news that's fit to print?

Greta on Fox said there are actually two jails on Aruba and that Joren might be moved to the one with higher security. There are photos of both on the site. Is there a distinction between 'jail' and 'prison'? Probably, huh?

I tend to agree. It's the reason the three boys were initially released and monitored (if that is indeed what happened). That's exactly what they do in the US, too: let the little fish free, because they will lead them to the big fish. And the big fish is who they really want.

It makes sense that the boys -- assuming that they're the little fish -- would refuse to talk, because the big fish would have threatened the little fish with harm to their families.

i'm not saying it's not the same guy, just questioned the credibility of others....maybe if i didn't have this stupid dial up, or had to make it thorugh all the banter last night, i might have been able to catch a mention about the other posters commenting about his girth.

k

Blondie... Welcome to the forum.  Please feel free to post any news / information you might have and discuss what others are posting.

Always nice to welcome new participants!!  ;)

Does Anyone think**for 1 minute** the 3 MAYBE inocent?

Veme


We are not going to go after Venezuela oil at this time.  :roll:

Hello!  I've been away from a computer for about 24 hours and I'm totally out of the loop! Anyone care to update?

:?:[/quote]There are a lot of Texans on this board

[/quote]

I'm only a naturalized texan. my heart will alwaze reside in the beautiful motherland called Alabama aka the HolyLand.

I've tried to look at the "innocent" possibility with these 3 and there are just too many changes in their stories in order to protect themselves from something.  I guess the possibility is there that they may not have been the ones to actually take this girl, but know who did.  But I tend to believe that, at the least, VDS is in up to his neck in this.

Chloe

ONE prison,

Paste:

The CPT's visit to Aruba was carried out from 30 June to 2 July 1994. The Committee's delegation visited the following places of detention:

Police establishments

Oranjestad Police Station
San Nicolaas Police Station
Prisons

Aruba Prison (KIA), Santo di Patia

END PASTE

SL

SandraK, I was just thinking the same thing.  It may be possible that JVS
and other 2 didn't realize what they were involved in.  Possible they are
being used because of JVS political/social/judicial status.  Wizard, any thoughts, your viewpoint is quite fascinating (sp).  :?

not only no, but H*ll NO. theyre 3 creatures straight out of the pit.[/quote]
u r funny

not only no, but H*ll NO. theyre 3 creatures straight out of the pit.[/quote]
u r funny

does anyone have a pic of croes being taken into custody? i thought i saw something about this earlier.

k

I think the misunderstanding for people comes when the media describes everything as a prison.  It's done all the time.  Prison is normally the end of the line for a person convicted and serving a sentence, while jail is usually where they stay until they are convicted and sentenced, but many reporters call every jail prison.

i found this post on  Riehl World View
   
The Vigilante news paper from Curacao Reports that the Croes guy might have been involved in breaking and entering on of the fishersman's huts, where appearently a fisherman reported that ropes, ankers, and tape have been stolen.
 
does not seem to be alot of information coming out today

u r funny[/quote]
WELL....Your point   Shows conviction,friend.
No Wiggle Room??

Thanks Wizard.  Looking forward later to seeing todays happenings. Keep
the thoughts coming. :D

This was posted here:

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/croes_update_1.html#comments

It's a current comment page going at Riehl

"The Vigilante news paper from Curacao Reports that the Croes guy might have been involved in breaking and entering on of the fishersman's huts, where appearently a fisherman reported that ropes, ankers, and tape have been stolen"

Does anyone know anything about this?? I ask because it leads one to suspect the worst.......I hope not.

Reporting (in Papiamento) the discovery of a body in Sabana Basora related to another case and not repeat not to the Natalee Holloway case as far as I can tell.   :roll:

I agree with Dragonfly.  When the 3 boys stories began changing, the chance of the boys being totally innocent strongly diminished in most peoples minds.
It would depend on what you are saying they are innocent of.   Possibly innocent of raping or killing her(worst case scenario), but not innocent of getting a young naive girl involved in something that has put her in danger and caused her family and friends a lot of heartache and worry.
Lets all hope for a happy ending to this nightmare.
Klowe

thanks, SL

Been away, any new developments?

Thanks for your opinions. I think that the search for natalee is more then the search for her. Nor do I think  she was abused. I think that during their investigation they stumbled upon other things aswell something bigger.
 

I agree with kowe the comment that she might have been at wrong place and the wrong time. And that Natalee is a part of a bigger picture here.

Little fish are still fish. So, no, I'm not saying innocent, as in completely. I'm saying, It's feasible that they were caught up in something completely over their heads.

I still can't wrap my head around the situation that three young guys with no criminal records have committed the perfect crime and are outsmarting the interrogators. No way.

Of course, we don't know exactly what they've told anyone, either.

But we don't actually know that the stories have changed.  All we know it what has been reported in the media, which doesn't mean that it is correct.  The Aruban LE seems to be making public what they want to make public.  I think the reason for this is that they know the whole, or at least most, of the story but don't want the public to know yet.  Maybe because there are more arrests coming.  I don't know, it's just my theory.

WELL....Your point   Shows conviction,friend.
No Wiggle Room??[/quote]

nope, these are evil boyz. if u can look NH in the eyes knowing all the time watt u intended 2 do to her.......pure evil

Do you know what "other case" they have going?  Did the report say what case it was related to?

Any mention of when the break-in took place?

iquitos, what is that radio link again.  Does the language sound at all like spanish or does it sound more dutch.  

I can understand parts of it if is sounds like spanish.

Good Morning All,

I have only been able to lurk the past day & half as hubby has been lurking @ me!! hehe...I have to read almost all of number 8??? to catch up 2 y'all....

Any news this AM?? Thank u in advance

I don't think there is really anything new coming out this morning.  All information in #8 is really around the arrest of the 4th suspect yesterday.

Three Aruba Suspects to Be Transferred to Prison...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159970,00.html

I agree because last weekend they said "resolved" and that pretty much can only mean one thing.  And that they are just following all possible leads, clues, etc. to end this completely - at least I hope!!!

If this is true, I am still sticking to my original theory which I have had for a while:

Nat goes w/Jor, steps into a car she doesn't realize has 2 other guys in it

Someone has slipped her a drug

I believe the 2 brothers are innocent and did drop Nat/Jor at Marriott.  Whatever happened happened there - I believe Jor pushed himself physically on her and Nat was having a reaction to the drugs and she died.  I have a physical trainer whose son was slipped GHB in his sports drink while working out at our local gym (in suburb of Philadelphia!) and died - so it can easily happen.  

Jor had to call somebody to come and help him - and they quite possibly could have disposed of the body.  The people they are calling in are people who quite possibly have come in on this scene on the tail-end

The original story was sold to the brothers as "Heh, we all drove off in the car together, people saw us, and this girl has gone missing, so let's stick together."; Jor has changed his story twice since then, and the brothers told the exact same story separately once they were rounded up and have not changed it

I don't believe any of the drug trafficking, slave/prostitute theories.  This is a sex crime gone bad.  The brothers aren't talking because they don't know...Joran isn't talking because he knows the body isn't recoverable.

As always, just my opinion...

Ahhh, I see. It can be a challenge keeping up with the forum especially when there's a lot going on. You can step away for a few minutes, come back and there will be 10 new pages. Anyway, as someone else mentioned, the people here who knew him verifed that it's him....skinny or fat.

The sex crime stays the most believable scenario.

I think we all hope for a different twist that might allow for her to be alive somehow.

It is hard to imagine thought how J could have gone on with tests and graduation as if his life was untouched by any trama.


Strange at best.

one has to keep an OPEN mind.
 You think Joran would have run home to DAD for help ?!

Thanks lilizzyboo!  That certainly clarifies the confusion.  :wink:

Afternoon all...Tom..caught the replay of the radio interview...was pretty cool...was wondering...have you been in contact with ArubaGirl outside the blog? Why DID she dissapppear? was she tired of all the Aruba bashing and quit? She was a worth while source....she was up until three in the morning a few weeks ago....

this aint bout sex, drugs r rock n' roll, its bout BIG money, in my view.

Did the Croes guy have access to any smaller watercraft, used for ferrying people back and forth to bigger boats, as part of his working on the Tattoo?  I saw a picture of this boat with a smaller craft right up next to it.  

The Tattoo's owner says the electronics on the Tattoo would make it pretty difficult for it to be taken out without anybody knowing about it.  But how about some support dinghies, etc?

AnnieMW1 also has a good theory  I too (if it is true) Natalee was kissing Joran - she probably was slipped something.   As she didn't strike me as a girl (young or naive) to just get in a car with 3 guys whom she either barely knows or doesn't know at all.  Just start kissing a guy she only meet twice at most.  Then the stories change and the brothers end up with they thought she may have ended up at a crack house.  

Then I believe they found drugs somewhere at Joran's or this Steve's and really started looking into the drug trafficing as well as possible slave trades just in case.  I just like the rest HOPE BEYOND HOPE that Natalee is alive.  But it is almost 3 weeks now.  AND SO FAR NO NATALEE.

I personally believe that letting the three go for several days was the worst thing for the case, as do you all.  Therefore, I think they are as perplexed (Polis in Aruba) by this case as the many of us are here- maybe even the FBI

She's still here - was on this morning.

stories changing=who was dropped off first?  I thought the brothers said they dropped Joran and Natalee off at the Beach by Marriot, and Joran is saying that he was dropped off at home and Natalee went with the brothers to be taken back to the hotel.  Of course this was from the supposed confession of one of the bros to one of the security guards, not anything actually confessed to officials that I am aware of.
But I still think that the fact that they are obviously lying about taking Natalee to her hotel proves they aren't completely innocent of any wrong-doing.   Lets face it, if they were telling the truth about dropping her off, we would not all be here debating this or worrying for Nats safety.   The videos did not show her returning.  The employees of Holiday Inn did not see her return.
If someone could come forward as a witness saying that they saw her after the boys supposedly dropped her off and where they saw them it would be really helpful.   They couldn't have been the only ones out and about that night (early morning).
Klowe

What is the theory on drug trafficing? Trade her to pay a drug debt?

nope, these are evil boyz. if u can look NH in the eyes knowing all the time watt u intended 2 do to her.......pure evil[/quote]


If there was "intent" as you indicate, why, why would they allow anyone to see her go off with them from C&C? That's something I'm having a hard time swallowing.

Also, on O'Reilly last night in an interview with the radio host representing the chaperones, O'R said it was BULL that the FBI has told those folks not to speak. Why won't they speak?

Didn't each brother say that dropped Nat/Jor near the Fisherman's Huts?

OK, tks...just missed her then...wouldnt want to think that "we"ran one of the most reliable, an dependable sources off....

Any news on the kid who claimed , to be a brother with an United states gouverment agent and that they where very close into solving the case

Annie, I thought they said they dropped them off at the lighthouse and then changed their story to the Marriot.

Riehl now has the fat picture up and is trying to link him to the EMT.  Not even close.  The he has a post from Roel saying it is not the same guy ant that the one they have up is actually a Red Cross employee.  This is smearing the innocent without a real basis for doing so.  It should come down.  We discussed this yesterday and discarded this guy (the amazon review)  Hope moderators will intercede.  


http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/croes_picture.html

:roll:

It's gone back and forth as to whether:

1. They dropped them off at the Lighthouse, left, then came back for them, then dropped them at Marriott

2. Went to Lighthouse, didn't get out, then dropped them at Marriott

3. Left and dropped them off at Mariott

I have seen various versions throughout these threads...but I think their stories indicate that they ended up dropping Nat/Jor at the Mariott

95 radio...sounds like roads blocked towards costa grandi/boca grandi/ all in pap/  this is on map/  kinda near golf course/ but inquitos said earlier
that this was not confirmed to be NH.
this is my take on what i just heard...anyone else listening here....
they r back to having spiritual people channel info on radio now
until they get nxt news post...

I'm talking about only the brothers' stories.
I think nobody believes Joran's story about being dropped off first - by now!

Keep us posted. Does anyone have a link to a map of this area?

That was another that was on this morning, Americaninaruba I think.  Arubagirl has not posted since 6/16.

But if that were true her new "owners" would have sent a ransom note by now.  They'd have to know they could get more for her from her folks than elsewhere.

Whattcha reckon?

How friendly is Croes with Joran?  Does anyone know?  Yes, he might not participate in a crime against a victim [ per his ex-wife ], but would he help with a cover-up?  Did he break into Fisherman's Huts and does he have access to a dinghy?

Americaninaruba was on this morning.  Arubagirl has'nt been around for awhile.

wwizard...when I ran across this last night you were the first person I thought of. It is a posting on a site that I found through the 4th suspect.The suspect communicates with several people, and this "marten" is an old man who is in that circle. Seems to back-up/support some sort of trafficking of women maybe?

Marten:
My modelling baby Stephanie .... all gorgeous "boobs and ass" ... When she eventually grows-up, she will be an important export commodity for Aruba. Most likely destination? Thailand of course. A certain well-known Dutchman has shown serious interest. Marten a Dutchman living life to the full in Thailand.

Breaking NEws #8, end of thread...I'm almost positive she was on this a.m.

This is what was posted:

iquitos
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Radio TOP FM 95.1  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Reporting (in Papiamento) the discovery of a body in Sabana Basora related to another case and not repeat not to the Natalee Holloway case as far as I can tell.

Just raced here to read what I DREAMED and PRAYED for....a caption like this: "NH and the Scared Monkeys who saved Her" Interview tonight on FOX, CNN, and MSNBC.  You can do it, Monkeys. If anything ever happens to me, I've advised my family to go straight to you!
Take Care, Monkeys!!!!!  And may your Monkey Fever and Philosophy Spread!

http://www.arubadag.com/

go there to link to the local television and radio stations...

if you speak dutch and spanish and papiamento...you're all set

I understand these languages, but there is often english spoken as well

Anyone hear any information on Max?

Does anyone have the link re: the Curacao paper alleging that Croews broke into Fisherman's Huts?  Recently?  [sorry for any misspellings...]

I'm Listening.. My pap **and Dutch** is very lame.

Hey Folks

If you have not already seen it, The Birmingham News did an article on blogs covering the Natalee Holloway story featuring Scared Monkeys, http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1157

We truly appreciate the Birmingham News for recognizing this and doing the story. Thank you.

Thanks to the many contributors as well. Keep the story on the forefront and everyone honest so that Natalee can be found and Nat's families can have piece of mind. Always remember the big picture.

Thanks,
Red & Tom

I heard last night on the boards he was released.

I never saw the thread on them possibly getting out at the Lighthouse, that is where they supposedly took her when they left C&C's, the beach with the Lighthouse, and then not long afterwards they claim they dropped her off at the hotel.   I think riding with Joran was giving Nat a chance to say her final goodbye to him since the kids were leaving for the airport later that morning.  At least that is possibly the reason she would get in the car with him willingly, just a few innocent goodbye kisses.   Something somewhere went terribly wrong.
Klowe

No Catriana..I just did a lot of digging through his website.

That's sick and sad.   But, it does seem to represent the criminal activity of some people.    Let's hope the authorities find "Stephanie" and rescue her.

Haven't heard a thing about this???

Here's a link where he is listed from the ISA
http://www.isaruba.com/breeze/documents/BreezeMarch242005.pdf.

selected posts from riehl:

That steve on the left picture is innocent. he works with the red cross aruba, and he's helping the family of the missing teen !!! I'm his friend and I also work with the red cross ARUBA !!!

Posted by: Roël | June 18, 2005 01:21 PM


Dan, please post something about this. Contact Roel for confirmation. I find it very distressing to drag an innocent man into the equation, just because he happens to have the same name.

If you have info to suggest otherwise, post it. If not, this is just creating confusion and is very unfair to Steve Croes on the left.

I also find it mindboggling that people are saying that it's the same person. Obviously they haven't had exposure to mixed ethnicities.

Posted by: Getagrip | June 18, 2005 01:33 PMI agree! It took me about 5 seconds to decide these two were not the same. It is obvious to me (and a couple of others like yourself and Angie) that these two men are of different ethnicities.

Maybe Roel can clear this up because it isn't fair to drag the Steve Croes on the left into this.

Posted by: Florida Girl | June 18, 2005 01:39 PM

Ok, just figured out why you think it would have 'tremendous ramifications'. Because SC on the left works for the Red Cross and has been involved in the search for Natalee?

Please, this is irresponsible. It's not the same guy.

Posted by: Getagrip | June 18, 2005 01:39 PM


Dan, if you want a real comparison why don't you put up the skinny version too? I don't think it is the same guy, the arubans on Scared Monkey who know the arrested Steve don't think it is him and the Arubans point out Croes is a common name. Roel knows of what he speaks I say take it down. There are differences in the nose, chin, and brow. We need to be more careful to protect the innocent and not go off on a tangent without a very solid basis.

Posted by: iquitos | June 18, 2005 01:42 PM

heee stupids.....

take of the picture on the LEFT this is another steve croes as I told you stupid yankees before this is a respectable member of aruba community a redcross member for many years and EMT.....

HOW can you guys be so stupid to think that this is the same person ..... ?????

again I cannot believe the stupidness i read, I suggest you all book a flight get down to aruba and very howmany steve croes live on aruba,.... .and than you may judge !!! poor steve croes....

BT

Posted by: Pathfinder | June 18, 2005 01:46 PM

IF THEY DID kill her and put her in the water (even on the shark side) wouldn't they still have to find something?????

If there was "intent" as you indicate, why, why would they allow anyone to see her go off with them from C&C? That's something I'm having a hard time swallowing.

[/quote]

Hay, this is watt I look like win I'm logged off, gotta do sum werk.

Below is my well worn theory for n e one thats new and its still holding up.
My theory is based on money not hormones.


 

NH is probably alive (if
she's minding).....but she ain't n or around aruba....what seems like random
events is really a well oiled machine and it is ABOVE THE LAW...this is white slavery territory we're n....no "rules".....I no the game now....and
we ALL need to deal w/ it.......if there was no internet I wood no only watt
the mainstream media tells me (laughable) and b OK......but I no more
now....

the scam is this....the dutchguy is the setup man. he takes the "mark" and
plays kissy kissy wink wink all week and plants the "trust me" hook.....he
sets em up and the brothers carry em 2 the boat......after they seperate the "mark" from "the herd" (and they did at the last possible second) and away we go......no body ever found means no
murder conviction.....they do their "time" and are released........what a
gig......foolproof......I feel for the people caught up in this twisted
vortex....the ONLY way her parents will ever see her is 2 pay 2 have her
back and it's
very slim odds because that wood b an admission of guilt by the pirates of
the caribbean.....u just don't kill women like NH....unless u can throw away
$20,000, $50,000, $100,000.........way 2 valuable......the abducted women
cooperate or die....real simple....what wood u do in their place? b honest
w/ yourself......I'm through checking EVERY headline cause it don't
matter.....I now no how it's gonna play now.....the "student"
brothers......."students" of watt and tell me about their mainland
connections.....the 3 will b released.....b honest agin.......no
evidence.....if this disturbs u, I apologize, it's just the reality of the
situation......hug ur fam, kids, friends 2 day because ur free and not in a
nightmare like
this......watt did NH ever do to warrant her punishment....the trio is a lot
more scared
of their BOSS than the law......all the king horses and all the kings
men......be well

NH has been SOLD. Don't shoot the messenger. The truth is ugly and it hurts.
We must deal with it though as adults and stop pretending it doesn't happen.
There's BIG money playing the game. Here's an example:
You buy a blonde women (popular where everyone is dark headed) for $100,000.
She could easily make you $50,000 a year for say 20 years. After 2 years
she's paid for and pure profit. $50,000 x 20 years = $1,000,000.
We lead sheltered lives in the US. Painfull to think about but it happens
ALL the time. She's NOT on Aruba, look all you want. This is the ONLY
scenario that fits all the "evidence". She was stalked from day 1, nothing
accidental about it. Time will bear this out.

Catriana, is it OK to send you a PM?

Apparently, the currents run fast west ot Panama

WHAT ABOUT THAT PICTURE??? Of Steve Croes and the friend underneath him named or nicknamed "Eightball????????????"

Hi Kerin - could you elaborate a little on the connection here? I saw that Maarten link, but wasn't sure where it came from. The Web site of that guy and all the guys I've looked at seem to have the same photos of the same women, in seductive poses. I did not see the quote above, though.

Ok..maybe I'm dense, but what is the significance of "eightball"?

Kerin - what website are you talking about? Could you give a link please?

Chloe...this Arren's guy has a website. I can send the link if you like (because it may be taken down like the others). As with the other suspects it is not so much what THEIR page may reveal but it is when you weed through all the other people they talk to that a disturbing image appears. Arrens page links to a girl named Stephanie...and then to Marten. I just chose one of the more shocking posts.

"eightball" refers to cocaine

Would you like to start with Arren's page or would you like to link to the old mans?

Riehlworldview site reports the following . . .

Another Update: A reader who clais to know and sounds reasonable states that a group of students from Mountain Brook did go on a cruis on the Tattoo while in Aruba - no information to indicate Natalee went along. Marcus Wiggins, Croes former employer who vouched for him runs three boats - links embedded in boat images here.

Most of the time anyway.

I agree.

IQUITOS - What do you make of all this, given two people who knew him this morning says it was the same person?  I find it interesting that at least somebody in this mess is an EMT, with lifesaving training, but am totally confused by all the postings below.

According to DASH, who was on the trip...Natalee did not go on the Tattoo, she went snorkleing.  Others on the trip did go on the Tattoo.

Kerin... Absolutely, you can send me a PM.   :)

here is the website for the other steve.  look at the pic.  


http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:SCchOeSdilUJ:216.55.182.166/emanonsc+%22Steve+Croes%22&hl=en&lr=&strip=1

One or more of the boys may have started out more innocent than they are now.

Had they sought out authorities on the night of Natalee's disappearance, it is possible that any or all of them might have faced actual charges of drug-related offenses, sexual assault, (or attempt) or conspiracy to abduct/human trafficking (but more as a cog in the wheel capacity), or even failure to render assistance, if that is a crime in Aruba. It is not a crime in the US, to my knowledge. (In fact, some states have had to pass special legislation, known as "Good Samaritan" laws specifically to protect those who DO render assistance from legal liability.)

It is possible, though we do not know, that any/all of the 3 may have made things worse for themselves by attempting to cover up offenses that fall far short of the crimes they are accused of now!

It does appear that the investigation may be coming uncomfortably close to some very sensitive areas that have the potential to impact some powerful business interests well beyond the Caribbean, and for all that has been noted about the affluence and political connections of the families of both Natalee and the three suspects, it is also possible that that influence may prove to be far from the top of the pecking order in that regard.

Which reminds me, someone posted yesterday that Natalee's father was employed in an area of US government "security for Bush," I think was how the poster worded it.

Does anyone have any more specific information about that?

Ok..maybe I'm dense, but what is the significance of "eightball"?[/quote]

cocaine...the rock...
not funny
 but if anyone remembers how they played music a few days ago one of the songs was "built this city on rock and roll"

The original link would be best and I can work my way back. If you are worried about traffic to the site, send it to me by private message. Thanks a million.

Or meth.  Have we decided whether or not the Steve lost weight or gained weight?  If he lost weight, "eightball" could mean a lot as far as drug activity.  Don't think I've ever had a friend named "eightball".

Marten:
My modelling baby Stephanie .... all gorgeous "boobs and ass" ... When she eventually grows-up, she will be an important export commodity for Aruba. Most likely destination? Thailand of course. A certain well-known Dutchman has shown serious interest. Marten a Dutchman living life to the full in Thailand. [/quote]

That's sick and sad.   But, it does seem to represent the criminal activity of some people.    Let's hope the authorities find "Stephanie" and rescue her.[/quote]
Yeah, it makes my stomach turn. Plus, I swear if you look at Maarten's picture it looks like he has on a priest's collar. (NOOO - I'm not saying he's a priest, I'm just saying his photo makes it look that way.) Lots of sick people in the world. I so hope Natalee can be found alive.

iquitos can't see the picture.

On a lighter note I knew guys in college nicknamed: Booger, Cheeseburger, Beevis & satan.

Has his picture been removed?

yep, iquitos, it appears the link has been removed. it will not connect either as a cache or a page

edited to add - it does however show roel as a "friend"

annie:  we are talking three pictures and two different steve croes.  cruoes pronounced cruz is like smith in the islands.  the skinny kid and the fat gangsta are the same, a dj.  the other steve is said to be a red cross employee who had a website that was taken down and is now only cached at Google.  There is a picture there that bears little resemblance to the other two pictures of the other (arrested) steve.  Riehl is trying to link him up because he expressed an interest in in emt on amazon.  as you can see from roel, who also had website linked to his, he works for red cross aruba.

cocaine= rock also
not funny but one of thesongs they played on 95 in seq was
Built this city on rock and roll
then here in my car
then alive and kickin'

i have been here 2 long guys

Poster her figured out that they were not the same person as soon as the name came out.

lol.  We all have!!   :shock:

Eightball refers to Cocaine.  It's an commonly known as a specific amount of coke nicknamed "Eightball"... Typically it's 1/8th of an ounce of coke.

Has nothing to do with Rock Cocaine or Meth.

I have definately been here too long!  That's really what I look like :wink:

I too noted this man on virtually every web-site in Joran's original Tickle page (before it was altered) This man, has responded to, and has responses from +many+ young females, practically all (the females) were also on Joran's blog before he altered it. Same thing w/ the females on Joran's brother's (Valentjin) Tickle acct. Valentjin had been visiting the Tickle site every day until recently when he removed his JPG. His picture with, ironically, that of his girlfriend "Natalie" was taken off. However, Valentjin's G/F +did+ have the JPG of her and Valentjin still online. Anyhoo, here is Marten's link. I found it odd that such an +old+ man was communicating w/ prepubescents/adolescents online.


http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=UlarV3dXBBOy95DB

SL

Does the radio do the news on the half hour or just at random times>

Hate to disagree with you, but eightball has everything to do with meth.  Same as cocaine.

Dragonfly...perhaps you are correct...just don't know about that substance.  But it has to do with the amount.  Would you agree?

OK...I think I sent everyone who wanted Arrend's web link but if not, please let me know.

The Steve website link above does work for google cache. The page that  comes up is a graphicsless page. Hit the "full" version above on the page. You may have to wait a minute, as I have DSL and still had a pause moment. The original site though says it's down for too much traffic.

Ting,

That is completely false. NH's father is an insurance agent and her stepfather works in middle management at a local company.

Please, can we stop these rumors now?

Kerrin...can you PM it to me as well?

I came in a couple of pages back and there was a reference to blocked roads - is that current news?

Asbolutely has to do with the amount.

my pleasure to, Woody

I really don't think it has anything to do with "We Built This City....." either!  I think anyone thinking the songs played the other day were cruel, etc is stretching things a little............. :roll:

Eight ball is also pool. On one of the pages I saw, several of the guys had little descriptions like "loves to play basketball and eightball." I'm not sure how much "illicit" activity is going to be described on public web pages. However, that Maarten/Stephanie/Thailand thing was chilling.

thx

Me too please. I would like to see it.

Anyone see this in the fox news article???



Any idea what these "documents" were?  Sorry if this has been discussed, just trying to catch up.

is nilo cruz the 95 dj on right now???

i would love a translator...

Thanks for that.  I thought we cleared up yesterday that the AMazon guy providing the book review [and having the EMT background] was not the same as the skinny kid/fat gangsta (a true transformation!) - which is why I was confused.

I think we have a whole group of underground predators removing their "tickle" sites as fast as we can find them.

I think they have been relatively "hidden" amongst their peers, for some time and Natalee's situation has brought a lot of this out in the open.  I don't think many of these teens and adults want the scrutiny.

I think this is just the evidence that prosecution has to be holding them.  Probable cause information, giving them some kind of idea of what they are up against.

WCoast, maybe not stretching. But would you not admit that it was, in the light of things, am inappropriate set of songs? I guess my thinking was that Natalee's mom (being in Aruba) may have the radio on for news. Just a thought of an overly sensitive mom of a teen daughter...

Thanks Dragonfly....... :D

********LURKING***********

whispers:   Hey all.... :D

just sent it to you SPS

Fox News is devoting a full hour on Natalee Holloway at 3pm ET.

Realistically, there is a limit to how long either set of her parents can stay.

The boys have to realize that.  They may figure that by the end of the jail time limt--media won't be looking and the father will have to go hom to his business and the mother will be starting school.

nixsan, someone posted it, I searched for confirmation, and was unsuccessful in finding it, so I asked here.

I sincerely regret if such a question displeases you.

What would you suggest would have been a better way?

Kerrin, can you pm me a llink to that Arrend fellows site?

i am on dag and am pretty sure the guy just told all listeners to
only call in with preguntas de  prefix or suffix....

this may be soca now

Catriana...I think you are correct. You may not have seen my previous posts but thanks to these sites, a man met and raped 2 of my students. Worse yet, he posted the photos for eveyone to see online. It's like they think they are invisible to all except their next conquest.

 :D

Honestly Kerin, i can't recall all the songs but i do recall being updated on most of what was playing and thought people were reading into it a little too much?  I mean, we're doing a ton of speculating and investigating on this case and this eightball thing has been found on one of the sites.  It's determined it's to do with drugs including a drug that can be referred to as a rock and we're thinking that song links this???  Umm, i don't really think so, i mean they could have played any song that had the word "rock" in it and we'd be jumping to the same conclusion :roll: ???  I may be totally wrong and if i am, the DJ deserves to be hung but his nuts  :shock: but i tend to believe it was more or less coincidental.

And if there is no conclusive evidence they will skate right outta jail.

Ting, it is just that we keep getting hit by trolls and one of their favorite claims is that she is some kind of rich girl wih special connections.

DT...sending now. Follow it to Stephanies.

Curious why the Kalpoe brothers won this, but Joran didn't.  Me thinks the system thinks they have less to hide - and we may see them walk soon.  Just a theory!

Catarina:  If I had Tickle account i would pull it to!   Dan pulled the google cache Zorpia website picture of the Steve said to work at the red cross but kept the narrative and the comments.  Added a little disclaimer.   Looks like Steve and Roel pulled their sites too.   Imagine the incestuous possibilities on a small island of internet users.

I sure hope it was coincidental, WCoast. Because when you hear "girls just want to have fun" and then "bad medicine" and then a song about having fun in a car it strikes me as intentional and CRUEL.

Youre right. I heard that her mother and step father have already spent 20k in the 3 wks they have been there. That is an aweful lot of money no matter who you are. Onthe local channel 13 news sight for birmingham I read they are selling yellow bracelets to help pay for costs associated with their stay and search. Eventually they are going to have to go home.
Its a horrible feeling to leave a place without your child. My son was kidnapped by his father, and I have felt the pain of having to leave an area without knowing if my child was ok. I guess that is why this case has captivated me.
(And before anyone asks, yes we found my son and hes back home safe thank god)

I seriously hope that the international groups fighting against sex crimes monitor sites such as this, meaning tickle, usenet, and even yahooroups.

Kerin, i totally hear ya.  If it was in fact intentional, and who knows, some young dj might think it's a laughing matter amongst his friends, it was definitely in poor taste!

Well she, or more accurately, her family does have special connections. The US does not deploy FBI agents to missing person cases, nor do congressmen generally get involved. The family is certainly well off, they could afford to send their daughter on a trip to the Caribbean, and they could afford to go down and search for her themselves.

However, what I am getting at is that even those advantages may not be enough if the investigation takes certain turns. It was for that reason that I asked about her father's employment, and mentioned the other poster's reference to "security for Bush," because obviously such a circumstance would have some bearing on the level and scope of resources deployed.

While so much of me wants to believe she is alive--the longer this goes the more I really suspect homicide.

I guess the why is what does not make sense.

ME TOO :lol:

I sure hope it was coincidental, WCoast. Because when you hear "girls just want to have fun" and then "bad medicine" and then a song about having fun in a car it strikes me as intentional and CRUEL.[/quote]

someone mentioned cheeseburgers a little while ago.
is it me or is it way past lunk?
wonder what chef hoovisan is cooking now?
i just noticed hi/she is here

That's the words I was looking for WCoast...POOR TASTE!  :D

Hi all....

Anyone seen Arubagirl?

Hey Waiting (sorry about the delay) and HI Sleeks!

Not sure if anyone saw this piece of news.  

Vorpman (running out the door)


http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/06/20/responds.shtml


CTO responds to Caribbean blacklisting
by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 18, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba: The Caribbean Tourism Organization (CTO) on Friday issued a statement, (a copy of which was e-mailed to Caribbean Net News), in response to a campaign launched by two radio announcers in Alabama, USA, calling on the listeners not to visit Aruba and by extension the Caribbean, as a result of the fallout over the disappearance of an 18-year-old high school graduate on May 30 in Aruba.

Dissatisfied with the progress in finding Holloway, Russ and Dee of the 'Morning Show' on The Source FM 101.1 in Birmingham, Alabama sent an e-mail to Caribbean Net News stating: "We are discouraging everyone from travelling to the Caribbean, and especially to Aruba. Our country may not be perfect, but we are able to solve crimes and thoroughly investigate missing persons with a greater level of expertise," said Russ and Dee from the 'Morning Show', adding that, "when Americans want to go to the islands we will encourage our thousands of listeners to go to the Hawaiian islands."

The blacklisting of Aruba and the Caribbean is said to have reached as far as national television in the USA.

After four days of trying and several apologies later, Caribbean Net News was able to secure a statement from the CTO in Barbados which reads as follows:

"We join the government and people of Aruba in our heartfelt concern for the whereabouts of Ms. Natalee Holloway. We join them and her family in praying for Natalee’s safe return.

“Every year, more than forty million visitors visit the shores of our Caribbean nations and through their contact with our people, we have developed a global reputation for our friendliness and for our welcome. We deeply regret any kind of incident that might tarnish that reputation and we will work with any and all the law enforcement authorities both within and outside our region to expose and root out any persons who run contrary to the true nature of our people.

“Our organization has no direct jurisdiction over the sovereign processes that govern our more than 30 Dutch, Spanish, French and English speaking members but we have a commitment from each that the rule of law will prevail in all circumstances without fear or favour. That has been and will continue to be the practice in all our territories.

“Anyone with information that might be important in solving any criminal matter in the Caribbean should send it directly to the law enforcement agents in the territory in question. If one has difficulty finding the agency to which it should be directed, details may be sent to CTO at ctobar@caribsurf.com and they will be forwarded with dispatch to the relevant territory."

Meanwhile, as the search continues for Holloway, Aruban authorities on Friday picked up a fourth suspect but declined to give the man's name saying only that he was 24-years old.

Another trio is also in police custody, Joran Van Der Sloot, 17, Deepak Kalpoe, 21, along with his 18-year-old brother Satish Kalpoe. However, no charges have been laid.

Two security guards, arrested June 9 have since been released.

Police say Holloway was last seen in the small hours of May 30 after leaving the popular Carlos'N Charlie's nightclub with three men.

There has been no sign of her since.

I don't know people think these kids have to be rich.  A fairly large group of middle class white collar parents send their kids on similar trips.

They are pretty common.  Heck even my "low income" high school does a trip like this at the end of the year.  They call it Club Eagle and this year they went to New York right after graduation.  Other years they have gone to Colorado and one year they took a cruise to Alaska.

The parents just see it as something they "do" as part of graduation.

go to highlighted full cache in google caption, pic comes up.    

Ii think the sites that are being changed, are the ones where the pictures have been taken down. WHereas the sites that are closed might be closed because the site was being slammed for bandwidth. In otherwords, the companies hosting these sites might pull them if bandwidth is exceeded. Another possibility with one site, is that it was generating so much obscene worded threats, that the company pulled it.

As for the google site....it still works. You get the photos by hitting the full version. The linked version was the text version. But the origianl site again, has been closed for bandwidth. Hope that helps.

She hasn't posted in here since 6/16, don't know what happened to her?

I tell 'ya...when I decided to make my son's senior trip a few weeks ago a "family vacation" he wasn't too happy to be stuck with my, dad and little sis but I think I did the right thing.  :D

From TripAdvisor:

NativeLingo
Aruba        Posted on: 2:38 pm, today

Bodo... what do you think of the murder of the two New Yorkers in the U.S. Virgin islands of 2 days ago???
Do you think the FBI is already there?? Will they solve the case in let's say....a week?? maybe two??
Do you think they will get the same kind of MSM coverage as the Aruba case??
Just curious....

  In the United States, at any rate, virtually all municipal and state police departments have specialists who monitor these sites, particularly the ones that are targeted at young teenagers. They catch a great many would-be predators by pretending to be young teens themselves.

Kerin, I agree, but the point is that going on one of these trips does not make you one of the wealthy.

Many middle class kids do it.

Apparently a daughter of a senior McWane executive goes to MB High and he has been helpful with planes and so on.  We established early on that FBI involvement owes to intercession of Senator Sessions and Condi Rice.   No known government security ties.  The father seems to down to earth and decent for that anyway.  

I think after the last troll arguement - maybe she got sick of it.

Hello guys.  Just to let you know, everything seems pretty calm and friendly today.  No worries!!!!   :D

us virgin islands are within the jurisdiction of the US but it may be a local crime.  fbi does not usually do murders.  

I'll still take Bermuda and its rule of law over a majority of caribbean islands, including Aruba.   And Bermuda has had its problems including attacks on tourists, drugs and gang violence.


Vorpman (on the run)

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050617/MIDOCEAN/106170150

Punish violent criminals with hard labour: Swan


Sen. Kim Swan  
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  by News Editor JONATHAN KENT
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FORGET the softly, softly approach – it's time for Bermuda to punish violent criminals with hard labour and boot camp-style reform programmes.

That is the view of Shadow Tourism Minister Kim Swan, who urged the Government to get tougher with thugs after two female American tourists were attacked by a machete-wielding robber in St. George's last week.
With violent offences on the increase and Bermuda's image as a safe tourist destination being eroded, the public was crying out for punishments to fit the crimes, Senator Swan said.
And if necessary, Bermuda should link up with suitable correctional facilities overseas to ensure the thugs received the type of steely discipline needed, or even send them away to work at sea for a few weeks, he added.

The victims of last Thursday night's robbery, aged 49 and 50, had left the White Horse Tavern at about 11.15 p.m. when they were approached by the thug, who was brandishing a machete, on Naval Tanks Hill.
The young man pushed the 50-year-old woman to the ground and snatched the handbag she was carrying. The victim suffered bruising to the left arm.

Police last month unveiled first-quarter crime statistics that showed street robberies were up 50 per cent compared with the same period last year. And overall, crime had risen 26 per cent.
Sen. Swan said the St. George's crime was deplorable and people believed that "enough was enough". The consequences of such crimes against tourists were far-reaching, he added.
"All crimes affect people's quality of life, but the effects of crimes against tourists go beyond our shores," Sen. Swan said. "Word gets around quickly with the speed of the Internet and, with the events that are taking place in Aruba at the moment, it does not bode well."
The story of the St. George's attack was certainly being well read on the web yesterday. Headlined "American tourists robbed by man brandishing machete", the story was the third most read of The Royal Gazette's online edition – five days after it had first been published.

Meanwhile in Aruba, police yesterday made further arrests linked to last month's disappearance of 18-year-old Alabama high school graduate Natalee Holloway.
"Make no mistake about it, the whole world is watching and these types of predatory crimes against tourists are increasingly alarming our friends and potential visitors overseas," Sen. Swan added. "The rise in violent crimes of this nature is jeopardising perhaps the most important ingredient of the Bermuda experience – the ability of our visitors to enjoy the unique charm and safety of our island.

"The Progressive Labour Party's inability to get tough with violent criminals and their 'softly, softly' approach to crime is a dismal failure that has only led to a US State Department travel advisory and an increasing loss of public confidence.
"For a Government that prides itself on being socially aware, they are not doing enough to combat crime. They say the situation is being monitored or they are using focus groups to identify the problem. That's no good. Let the people who are prepared to get on with the job get on and do it."
Many parents used stern disciplinary measures to bring their own children back into line after they had gone astray, said the United Bermuda Party Senate Leader, and the country needed to adopt a similar philosophy when dealing with violent criminals.
And he felt strongly that those who had committed violent crime should not be imprisoned alongside petty criminals who could be influenced by them.

"When the courts have identified people as violent criminals we need to take corrective action," Sen. Swan said.
"I don't understand what three strikes means, but I do that one strike against a tourist will manifest itself 20-fold in the harm that it does. The time has come for Bermuda to consider 'boot camp-style reform' for violent criminals. We need to explore all the possible options, which include considering hard labour, overseas or on the high seas."
Three weeks ago the Bermuda Police Service launched a new Tourist Crimes Unit (TCU) to help tackle and reduce the rising number of crimes against visitors and tourism properties.
The TCU is designed to increase police visibility in areas frequented by tourists, such as beaches, shopping areas and guest properties.
Sen. Swan said immediate action was needed in the St. George's area after last week's attack.
"Remote areas, such as Naval Tanks Hill and Coot Pond Road, and other areas where tourists are likely to walk at night, must be suitably lighted and policed," he said.
"While the community waits for action from the PLP, the UBP will continue to support the Bermuda Police Service, which is doing a phenomenal job with the meagre resources available to them. We urge the public to do their part by being vigilant and insuring that the police receive the support they need to bring violent criminals to justice."

Police are appealing for witnesses to last Thursday night's robbery.
The suspect is described as an 18-year-old black male, approximately 5ft 6in tall, of slim build, wearing shades, a baseball cap, a red sports jersey and long blue jeans. Anyone with any information is asked to contact the St. George's Criminal Investigation Unit on 297-1122.
l An American woman reported having her handbag snatched by a man on an auxiliary cycle as she walked along Pitts Bay Road, near the junction with Bermudiana Road, on Wednesday night at around 7.40 p.m. The suspect is described as a dark-skinned male, riding a red rental cycle with a large wire basket. Any witnesses are asked to contact Hamilton Police on 295-0011.

For the sake of all that is holy, could you back off on posting maybe even a small percentage of every thought that crosses your mind?

Honestly.

VORPMAN Hello - check your PM

Dont feel bad, my 16 yr old asked me "So I guess this means I cant go to Cancun for my senior trip?" I said "Not without me". Her friends and her have been planning a Cancun trip for some time, and us parents have been leary about it. We went back and forth on it their freshman year when they wanted to go for spring break. Of course we said no way. So they said how about for senior class trip or graduation? We said maybe. That maybe has turned into a NO WAY for most of the parents. Now were all thinking if they get to go, itll be with a parent each in tote. It sure hasnt made us very popular....

Ohhh....I totally agree. You are talking to the middle-class right here. I saved for that trip for 3 years.

Hey CancunMole !! A very good afternoon to you!!!

Maybe Arubagirl is just too busy....will e-mail her later.....

I agree Cat. I think you are absolutely correct.

LOL.  :lol:

Okay guys, sorry, maybe I was a little premature in my post about everything being calm and friendly here today.   :(

LOL.  :lol:

I don't know this for a fact but I was told that the mayor of mountain brook  was a ex secrete service agent it might have been BS  dash might know

YES KERIN I too would agree with you - most parents want to please their kids especially if they have proven to be trustworthy.

Hi Native. Glad to see you here.

Ting, it has been knocked down a couple of times, was originally imported from another site.  

:oops:

DON'T YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE that these sites have been removed by the feds or someone in authority????

Hello Native!!  How are you?

Hello Kerin  :wink:

Here are a few things:

Over on Websleuths, one of the Aruban posters is explaining that Max Arends, the student/classmate of Joran's, is NOT the one questioned by police. That was Max Arendsz, whom someone else described as being a drag racer.

This page, http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/~ensermo/mike/pages/alltogether.htm
the original with the "thin" photo of Steve Croes, describes him (Croes) as "the best and crazyiest [sp] driver I have ever met!"  

So perhaps that's the link between these two ....

Exactly Iquitos! My guess is that NativeLingo may be trying to point out what I said earlier: If this had happenend anywhere else, there would not be such a media frenzy. God knows I want this girl (and all the others missing in the US) to be found safe, but all this being Aruba's fault should STOP.

Yeah they don't own planes or something. Her family is, from what I can tell (but we don't talk about this kind of thing...money I mean...at school), her family is even less well off than mine...we all live very comfotably, but don't have unlimited resources. They called the congressman, but they don't have any "connections". They can't really afford to be down there much longer...that's why there are funds to help them offset the costs. The fact that the reward was $10,000 should tell ya'll something-believe me, they put up all they had extra. Doesn't seem like much, does it? They aren't real rich...just middle class...probably upper, but in Mountain Brook, we ARE a little skewed...plain middle class here is upper anywhere else. But there are few families here that are in the "uber wealthy" or "really rich" categories. We're mostly upper middle class.

Hi Dragonfly :wink:

Hello ALLLLL!!

edited

Dragonfly - I think some are still tired from too much of no new updates.

they do a noonish report but interrupt music for updates.  not a real heavy duty news depts, two reporters harry and elvis seem to be on the road every time they report.  

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is BS...my parents said they've never heard that before, and he certainly doesn't seem like an FBI type! He's just too normal.

Sleeks...didn't we hear somewhere (sorry I am on information overload at this point) that Natalee had traveled abroad a few times? I am thinking that is why her parents felt comfortable with letting her go to Aruba. I mean, safe island with no crime, with a big group. IMO her chances of being abducted from Aruba were probably the same as being abducted on a flight layover in NYC. (not to offend NYC!!)

Europe and Canada...and a lot of places in Europe are MUCH more dangerous than Aruba! But she isn't the type parents would be worried about going.

Well, Another K, the US population is quite diverse, and while there are many families who do enjoy sufficient resources after meeting basic needs to afford Caribbean vacations, there are many who do not, regardless of what "class" you or I or they themselves consider themselves.

And while it is also true that the majority of Americans who post on message boards tend more toward the affluent than poor side of things (obviously they have access to computers, internet connections, and time to post  :) ) if the US is diverse, the internet is even more so, with the result that you might run into folks, even Americans, for whom a vacation to anywhere is an impossible dream.

And even for all those families who think nothing of sending their kids off to an island vacation, I am not sure that the majority of them would be in a position to go there themselves and stay for a couple of weeks.

However, all of that does not mean that Mr. Holloway is Bill Gates. Or Dick Cheney. And that is my point. There are many levels of affluence and connectedness and influence, and it may be that while the question of what happened to Natalee may not be answered, the question of just how far the Holloways are able to push the search may be.

I Agree Kerin and Hello to Mbhs05 I think they felt comfortable with her traveling - she never proved to be irresponsible.  What parent would worry now.  It's not logical.

And frankly, upper middle class in Alabama is not the same as upper middle class in California (less money goes a lot farther in AL). The point about the original reward money should be a huge clue -- this is not an overtly wealthy, privileged family. However, given that there are actually two families - step-parents - there are probably more resources available than one.

mbhs05 -- someone posted a rumor that there was a donation fund set up at AmBank in B'ham. I went to their site but saw nothing. Do you know anything about this? thanks

Is the Holiday Inn actually CHARGING them for their room??

Sleeks, I don't think the authorities are taking the sites down. That's these guys main way to communicate with women in the US. If you notice, the site of Horan's I was looking at did not go down, it was just cleared of postings (evidence?).

OMG - I certainly HOPE NOT.

Well let me tell you money does NOT go very far in Mountain Brook...eesh. People charge us out the wazoo. Stupid people.
I know there's more than one account...I don't know if there's one at Amsouth...maybe you could go in and ask? There was a post earlier about an account set up in Mississippi too...I haven't been to the bank yet, but I have to go today anyway-I'll ask them when I get there and if they have one, I'll post it soon as I get back!!!

Iquitos...is this the only radio staion in Aruba, do you know?

OK BUT WOULD THESE GUYS have access (even to laptops) in Jail????

if her family was worth millions the people holding her would have found that out by now and demanded a ransom for Natalee.  M thank you for clearing this.  I know from working for a Senator even if you know the Senator that does not mean you can get in and get strings pulled.

No, it's free. They are in Natalee's room...well her mother is, anyway. HI is letting them stay free...for how long I don't know. Let's hope until they find her. But the room isn't all that they have to pay for, and the search itself is costing money...remember they can't work if they aren't at home, and I'm sure they don't have a lot to fall back on financially anyway.

I seem to remember reading that Mountain Brook seniors have been taking this Aruba trip for a few years now with no problems. Natalee's parents were aware of that, I'm sure, and also aware that Aruba is a pretty safe place for tourists. (I have friends who own timeshares there who have never had a problem.) Taking all those things into consideration, in addition to the fact  that Natalee appears to have been a responsible person--why wouldn't they let her go on this trip?
    And insofar as this "rich kid" business is concerned--maybe Natalee earned the money to travel by babysitting.

Rooms (plural). Unless the Twittys and Holloways take the concept of the 'modern' family to a whole new level.

I don't know. What I mean is that there are many families who could afford a graduation trip for a son or daughter whose homes, for example, are not fully paid off, and who would not have the cash on hand to forfeit income for two weeks.

Just an example, a CNN report the other day mentioned such a trip where the cost was $1500 per student.

I am saying that there are a lot more families who could manage to save up $1500 than there are families who could do that, then buy two more plane tickets and take off work for two weeks and still pay the mortgage!

After the information coming out on this case, I would think that parents should scrutinize their teens 'websites' and Internet surfing sites.

I know, if I had teens at home, I'd be doing some major investigation of their computer temp files, etc.

PERSONALLY I think these were young guys Not experienced drug lords that is why there is no ransome.  I think they were just being stupid young studs, thinking all the women they met were so impressed with them.  I do think they found drugs.  Date rape type or whatever.

I would hope not! Joran's myspace account has not been touched since he was arrested. Myspace has a time/date stamp of a user's last login.

Mbhs05 OH THANK GOD That would be completely tacky if they charged them in this horrific mess.

Yes I KNOW it's been taken for the last three years...no major problems. Same conditions. Aruba is safer than a lot of places we have school trips to. She's also really responsible and levelheaded, so they  had little reason to worry. Also a lot of kids paid for the trip themselves-my parents told me I had to, and that's why I didn't go. (I didn't have a job this spring and I knew I was getting a horse-I wanted a saddle and bridle set instead, so that's what I'm saving up for.)

I heard (but this has not been confirmed...lol) that HI is not charging them for their rooms there.  I think I heard that very early on in this.

Exactly, Catriana! NetNanny, etc. are excellent pieces of software to put on a PC used by teens.

OK Kerin I would hope not also.  I don't think they'd give up passwords etc. to allow others to get to their websites - do you???

NativeLing: Bon Dia. How, may I ask, is the atmosphere on the Island today? Are folks still searching or are there only official searches going on? Thank you.

NO...I don't think so....I'm sure AHATA (Aruba Hotel and Tourism Assoc) and/or ATA (Aruba Tourism Authority) are paying for all the expenses.....

mbhs05 -- someone posted a rumor that there was a donation fund set up at AmBank in B'ham. I went to their site but saw nothing. Do you know anything about this? thanks[/quote]


I know there's more than one account...I don't know if there's one at Amsouth...maybe you could go in and ask? There was a post earlier about an account set up in Mississippi too...I haven't been to the bank yet, but I have to go today anyway-I'll ask them when I get there and if they have one, I'll post it soon as I get back!!![/quote]
Um, well, a little difficult to go in and ask since I live in the Northwest.  :wink: If you can find out anything, and if they set up a link, I'll be they would get plenty of donations online.

is this fox thing live??


yes, just saw it is live....
the official just being int looked like he knew more
than he could comment on...at the moment. imo

writer gal
well put.  I sure several of them earned adn paid their own way for this trip.  I know dash told me she paid for the trip herself.  I believe these guys are mixed up in drugs and I willing to bet she saw something she was not suppose to and someone is holding her against her will.  And if the guys are to afraid to talk they are yellow belly cowards.  If Joran really did care about nat he would have died trying to keep them from taking her or be ratting out who is holding her now without regard to himself or his family.

A noted posted on the comment section of the blog.   Good insight here!

Mbhs05 did she babysit allot???

I dont understand parents who dont? I have 2 teenagers, 1 preteen, a preschooler and an infant. My teenagers and preteen can use our puter, but ONLY if there is an adult in the room. My daughter who is 16 has a xanga (blog) and a myspace site. Both of them I help her with. I also have all of their passwords. They arent allowed to chat on AIM or Yahoo with anyone I havent personally met either. I figure if they dont like it, they dont have to use MY computer with MY internet connection. There are too many bad people out there anymore. I trust my kids, I dont trust people who for all we know can be predators online.

Well I can say in Cali, middle class would be anywhere else's upper class but that ain't the point. Honestly, I don't put myself in any class because money doesn't matter.

I can and will say, anyone can and will save, eat top ramen, collect cans etc to give their child a nice graduation trip. I know when my daughters school took the 5th grade trip to Washington DC, even the kids from what would be considered poverty neighborhoods, were there. Their parents, extended family, wanted them to experience something positive and perhaps something they didn't get when they were kids.

Believe me, parents, will sacrfice anything for their kids!!!! Regardless of what "class" they are in!

AMERICANINARUBA are you out there? is there anything new? right now theres and hour special on fox on NH missing

I'm wary of that...I have my reasons. We had a livejournal "incident" at this school my junior year. One of my friends is into all kinds of drugs, and talked about this, as well as the people she tried them with, freely on her journal. I'm glad someone found that because, for a while at least, she was watched so she couldn't get into to much toruble. But because I was on her friends list, I was scrutinzied too...I had not done drugs, drank, anything, nor even hinted at that on my website. I complained about my weight and about my ex boyfriend, and the counselors told my parents that I was anorexic and depressed...overkill. I know they were trying to watch our backs, but we were also put on a list of kids to "watch" and that list was sent to the police department...my name was on it and I was HIGHLY offended by this.
I'm saying I think it's graet for parents to keep an eye on things like that, but they DO need to be careful not to over exaggerate or be overly cautious.

I don't know if "people" are still searching.....
The official investigators though are working 24/7....

((Native)) ((Kerin)) ((everyone))

By the way, hello. lol That was kind of rude of me ranting without saying HI first! Sowwy..

Stranger things have happened. Maybe that's one piece of info that daddy VDS got from Joran when they met? (password) Because Valentin's website was jammed UP with posts from people going off on his brother and now it's down too right? :)

yes people are still searching, they just cancled the summer carnival for the search of NH :0)

I would imagine myspace would have taken down Joran's site to save their servers ;)

warm {{{{{HUGS}}}}} to Cali. Designated driver again tonight?

 or , r offical folks officially being searched for by the good folk on one happy island? :roll: ?
u never know.

I am so upset that they have not found her as yet.  Monday (we all know) will be three weeks - are they still searching for her????

lol Kerin.. Gawd.. I hope not.. but I am always on call! Maybe I am weird to some but I like to make sure my friends don't drink and drive.

Yes, MBHS. It should only be used as a monitoring tool.  :)

I know there's more than one account...I don't know if there's one at Amsouth...maybe you could go in and ask? There was a post earlier about an account set up in Mississippi too...I haven't been to the bank yet, but I have to go today anyway-I'll ask them when I get there and if they have one, I'll post it soon as I get back!!![/quote]
Um, well, a little difficult to go in and ask since I live in the Northwest.  :wink: If you can find out anything, and if they set up a link, I'll be they would get plenty of donations online.[/quote]

Ok well I'LL go ask! I'll PM you when /i know.

There have been no noteworthy developments reported today (Saturday) in the Holloway case.  Hasibokos.com has received information of many initiatives that have been taken to boycott Aruba. We informed you about the petition to ban Aruba and also the bad publicity that the island has been getting is hurting the tourism industry. It’s clear now that some people have definitely find a way to exploit the situation and fill their wallets…….The latest example of this concerns production of  T-Shirts with different demeaning/awful text towards Aruba printed on them. These are being sold on http://www.tohellwitharuba.com/ for 22$ a piece. You can also view and/or leave a comment on the situation on their website.

That's definitely not weird...that's a true friend.  :D

News reports say Joran and his Dad did NOT in fact meet - -the judge's decision was reversed before they actually met.

Judge Bob Wit ruled that Van Der Sloot's father, Paul Van Der Sloot -- himself a judge -- cannot visit his son, the boy's mother told CNN. The mother, Anita Van Der Sloot, said the judge did allow her to visit, however.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/18/missing.teen/index.html

HELLO CALI  :o

Bon tardi DJ Taylor....con ta? :wink:

dj would you look at the picture in the full cache and tell me if it is the steve croes you know?   I understand there is another steve who is with the red cross.  you will get a text page and can get picture by clicing on full cache in the google caption.  

 

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:SCchOeSdilUJ:216.55.182.166/emanonsc+%22Steve+Croes%22&hl=en&lr=&strip=1

Hey there Cali!!!

Just looking at a few of the tickle links off of Martin's site makes me sick.

One of those girls said she was 18 but looks about 8.  

Yes, it sure opened my eyes to tickle.

Hi Dragonfly!

I see there's not much progress today  :cry:

I was watching a show on FOX Friday night that had this diving/recovery expert in Aruba and he said objects disposed of or lost off the coast of aruba pretty much end up in Panama due to the currents.

Native, have you heard from Aruba Girl?


Folks there is no reason to boycott Aruba.  Heck, more of us need to go down there till every inch of the island can be checked.

95 stopped playing music...dj is on now
fox interrupted special for fox update on credit card fraud....

ouch. this should not turn into a "everyone in aruba is bad" situation. None of these suspects are even "from" Aruba, correct?

No not really.  But it was pretty crazy yesterday, so maybe this will be one of those down days.  I love the news when it comes and we all sit on pins and needles waiting to hear everything, but maybe a "rest" is good today.  lol.

bon tardi................ami ta bon danki :0)

Sounds like they are selling household items-like a furniture store?

Yeah, I saw something about that too.  I think he said that there was a particular side of the island that if something was dropped there it would probably never be found.

I see you later people......
My fridge is like a fountain.....only water and light......and you are ALL to blame!!!!  :shock:

exactly.......not only that its just a very dumb mentality i think whoever came up with that, very very ignorant!!!

would u translate from 95?

thanks for that Chloe. I keep getting conflicting updates. One says he did meet him and then the next says no. FOX says dad went to court again today and was again denied.

i shall do my best, the problem is that its raining like hell here so the comunication is pretty bad but i will try :0) i let you know ;0)

Correct. So far, we have all suspects who migrated to Aruba but are from someone else.

Ting - You are 100% correct about that!  - and I might add - get the attention of the U.S. Secretary Of State.

People go missing all the time. The attention this case is receiving  proves to me that it is NOT about privilage and "special connections".  

This is a political opportunity and a foot in the door " field trip" for the Bush administration. Bush is rabid about human/drug trafficking & he has no use for Venezuela or the idiot in charge there.

 Does anybody know exactly how many FBI/DEA agents are in Aruba? How much does that cost a day? Do the math.

This reminds me of The Perdicaris Affair of 1904. Theodore Roosevelt & George W. Bush have many, many things in common.


That was my tongue & cheek point ealier.
 :wink:

Amen!  I just asked my hubby if he would like to take a trip to Aruba.  He has been many times, I have never been.   Maybe it's time to go.....

thnx-yes and it's probably reall hot in florida.

man its the worse,  muggy hot sticky just nasty :0) anyway i am trying to get this radio thing going :0) if not i shall call AMERICAINARUBA to help me out if mine doesnt work..........:0)

I'll bite at the congressman statements.

It's not that hard to get ahold of a congressman and get them involved. In fact, I could call mine ont he phone right now or even go to his house. That would be because my congressman's daughter goes to school with my daughter.

Hi DJ...I didn't see you come in. Did I read earlier that you are about to have a baby any day??

This took some work but I figured out who Marten is. To read the above quote, it does indeed sound like the guy is involved in something not too good. However, after reading Stephanie's site and his site, I don;t think that's the case. It sounds like they have communicated some. His site even says he's looking for a serious relationship (ie these are singles matching sites apparently?_)

Further on, I noticed that this guy says he wrote a book about Thailand and maintains a website. I couldn't find his book on Google anywhere...though it could be something that's published in another country or even sold by the author himself directly. I did find the website though....here:

 http://www.meetingthaipeople.com/mtp/

It's a message board that doesn' t seem to get a lot of posts considering the number of members. You have to go to the Matter's of Heart section.
There you'll find an interesting thread about online dating and how he's gotten 1500 emails.....some kind of experiment he claims. Then check out some of his other threads.

Naw....this guy isn't trafficking. But he is still some kind of strange person....probably a dirty old man looking for a young chick.

DJ, how are you doing today?

i am fine thank you, trying to get my radio working, so i can translate, i think i will just call AMERICANINARUBA so she can do this

Curiosity...were you able to find any examples of these "stories" Marten writes to the girls?

the radio is reporting the sabana basora search for the dead person referred to earlier.  apparenly crime is a growing problem on aruba.  two case in less than three weeks.  the guy was taken out there in his own pickup and dumped.   :x

Good looking Chloe. I was to lazy to search lol.

Hopefully to halt further FBI confusion, you can read what they do simply from their site... http://www.fbi.gov/aboutus.htm

"combating international and national organized crime"

:::watching the FOX special on Natalee:::
so what do we know from our Aruban friends about this "prison" the 4 suspects are being transferred to?
Is that a normal procedure once a suspect is held for X number of days?

okay this is really getting ridiculous. this steve johnson guy in chicago with his tohellwitharuba.com website (yeah, i looked it up) and now freaking geraldo is on tonight with "aruba cover-up".....

at some point these guys are going to really "queer" this investigation...this is the height of irresponsibility.

i don't blame the arubians if they're ticked off, i sure would be this really frosts my .....! :oops:

Mojo.. :oops: is right! If I "ever" thought there was some coverup happening in Aruba, I put that thought to rest once the judge said daddy VDS cannot visit his son.

FOX now showing video of the Tattoo and the prison.

veme, I believe that there are 12 FBI agents in Aruba at this time. I hope that you are wrong. It would be, to say the least, adding insult to injury for this family if you are correct.

It is true that I am aware of similar speculations, albeit from something of a different perspective. As I mentioned elsewhere, the internet is very diverse, and while US foreign policy does indeed enjoy overwhelming popularity with Americans, it would be disingenous, not to mention inaccurate, to suggest that this is the case worldwide.

With regard to Natalee, I agree with the poster who expressed the hope that arrangements can be made that will return her to her parents, and enable the family to return together to Alabama.

how do i attach a photo?

After looking at "What we Investigate", why are they there? What am I missing?

right....it seems to be very important to harry...
not as important as good furniture go cheap/ or nice rims tho

OKAY  you guys i kinda got in contact with the radio, is there any specific questions that you would like me to ask them>? since i cant listen to the radio i am on there website they are chatting in papiamentu aswering questions
so shoot some so i can ask........

thats strange,
djtaylor disappeared red
 maybe her radio is in natives frig/fountain...

 And it is my understanding that this is a yearly trip so these kids have known for years and been able to save.  We definately are not poor but have a fund saving money to go to Disney again so it does not put us in the debtors jail.  "Mickey Money"  LOL

What was their basis for saying that they highly suspect NH is alive yeseterday?

Well, he has a list of sex jokes on his site. The guy seems pretty obsessed with young women. And he refers to himself as 'living the full life' in Thailand on his profile.

DJ - Questions for A radio - if appropriate:

a. Any information on whether the owner of the Tattoo owned other smaller dinghies that Croes might have gotten his hands on to help out Joran?

b. Any confirmation of the report from Curacao that Croes broke into a Fisherman's Hut - and anchor, rope, tape was found missing?

 i am here but my freaking RADIO wont work :0( i am getting in contact with AMERICANINARUBA to see if she can help me out, i want to translate but the rain and thunder has my radio going crazy....sorry you guys but i will keep on trying :0(

We all NEED a rest, or at least a "slowdown". When I have time later I will post some ideas about why we are all getting so bogged down on this site. It isn't just the fault of the people in here.

One point though: I post FAR differently when Dash or mbhs05 are on here because I feel that they need every bit of uplifting and stress relief they can get!

DJ...do they know why the suspects are being tranferred to a prison? Is it a space issue?

*raising hand* "Here!"

That's cute, Lainey!

:::shudders:::

You don't want to know what goes on in Tailand. Let's just say, he's living in his own Neverland Ranch there  :roll: I am really grossed out now ...

Sorry I'm so late gettng back to you, as I have been reading the full section of "hearts" in that luney's website. I did not find any letters, only references to the claim that he's recieved around 1500 emails from his online ads in singles sites.

What I did figure out is that he lied in is tickle site about wanting a serious relationship and marriage. His own site puts down marriage. You only have to read the negatives he's listed about marriage to figure that out. Then again, he did say it was an experiment, so probably anything he wrote wasn't meant to be serious....only to get those emails rolling in. Get a load of his thread on "hope for older guys". Also, check out a few of those threads with advice on kissing and other sexual topics. Glad he's miles away from those young ladies in Aruba. Like I said....dirty old man looking for young chicks.

Kerin - did you have a chance to look his site over? If so, what did you think?

Chloe, isn't Thailand known for their sex trade? I need to look back through Selena's posts for the stats.

That man Martin...he is a pedophile..it is obvious...he is in contact with many young girls....

Could there be a link????  Am I grasping for straws???

When I was looking at all the suspects' sites...I also went to some of their friends' sites...and he had had contact with almost all of them.....seems strange to me...could just be coincidence...dunno...but definitely something that should be looked into.....hence the reason I think Kerin should become.....his new prey (for information purposes only)

I agree,,,If you are interested,,,there is a Fund for Natalee that has been set up at AMSOUTH@CRESTLINE  35 Church Street, Mountain Brook, Birmingham, AL  35213,,   Also there are some light blue rubber bracelets availabe locally,,,if interested will try to find out if they are available online,,,,,per our local TV Station

One of his links to that little girl in india is sickening.  His post on her site is horrible.  There were others who look under 15 and lots of dirty old men.

Kerin they are.. but what is most disturbing is they have child "brothels".

Hi All,
Just been listening to Fox. I have great respect for Aruban people and Gov't, but the constant line about the Dutch System and how well it works does not appear to be entirely applicable to this case (since cases like this are very rare in Aruba and experience in solving case is probably also minimal.) (Also the fact that NH is still missing after all this time, and time is critical, does not help System either.)  I believe U.S. image of this case in Aruba would be much better if Gov't was willing to be more open with any facts that would not compromise the investigation and also use assets of FBI in any way possible. I get the impression that the Gov't goes on the defensive any time MSM asks a question. If I were Gov't in Aruba, I would be asking for help from anyone who could help solve the case. It would not make Gov't look inefficient to me. It would make me believe that they want to solve case ASAP.

quote]We all NEED a rest, or at least a "slowdown". When I have time later I will post some ideas about why we are all getting so bogged down on this site. It isn't just the fault of the people in here.

One point though: I post FAR differently when Dash or mbhs05 are on here because I feel that they need every bit of uplifting and stress relief they can get![/quote]
that's so true.

no its not a space issue, its because they sentence them another 8 days and  well  aparently there has to have been some sort of evidance that made them take them to prison........but again they are very limited with what they are telling the media

this is not yet totaly comfirmed* but its what i am beeing told here on the radio site :)

What type of criminals are in the prison?  What is the population?  Would they be in the general public in prison?  gonna do a search and see what I can find out.

This guy makes me think of how many young girls lately run away with older men from the internet.

His site make me think of an old Law and Order SUV episode.. man in a foreign country, bought a 14 year olf girl a ticket to somewhere in Europe, had "contacts" in the US to get her a passport and lie and say they were parents..and *poof* she was gone onto foreign soil.

I wonder if we could send his site in?

Curiosity, I am in the process of going through the tangled (perverted) web. Pretty disgusting! I keep thinking the next level I go to may be a link of his with some online listing of girls available in a Thai brothel.

Chloe, isn't Thailand known for their sex trade? I need to look back through Selena's posts for the stats.[/quote]
Yes. Yuck. Totally.  I think the sex trade in Thailand has gained a lot of media attention lately due to the number of men who apparently go over there for sex with minors -both male and female. I believe a guy in California was recently arrested for this. The Internet has made these connections much easier for them, but as someone posted earlier (writergirl?) the FBI has begun monitoring this stuff too. Long answer to your question. Bottom line - YES.  :cry:

By the way.. lol I already admitted my addiction to Law and Order, A&E and court TV lmao So shhhhhhh lol jk

Don't forget Dan Riehl is on Fox tonight, "The Big Story Weekend" at 9pm EDT.

"Marten:
I agree in general with what men write about you in your profile page .... I would love to take it one step futher though ..... I would love to politely squeeze you very pleasantly in order to make you softly squeak .... as I believe that, if this procedure is executed in the right way and in the right places, I will discover that you have a voice of a nightingale...... Anju, what a simply gorgeous woman you are...... FYI : We have a Hindu Temple in Chiang Mai just in case you are thinking of moving within my reach..... Marten .... a Dutchman living alone in Thailand, but hopefully not for long...."

This is what HE wrote on the website on the anju that looks to be about 8.


This man is a sickie.  

It does make you wonder if there could be a link.

From what I am gathering, they are much more private in Aruba involving criminal matters.  When you really think about it, it's the right thing to do.  We hate it because we are used to every detail being in the morning paper or on the news, but what about all of the innocent people arrested everyday?  While I don't think these guys are innocent, I know innocent people whose story has been on the front page of the paper after an arrest, only to have charges dropped later but no retraction in the paper.  Because of an arrest, the paper digs up any other dirt they can find on a person and prints that also.  Court proceedings are printed with every detail that may not even apply to the case at hand.  Then the person is let go and charges dismissed, but a reputation still ruined.  So I can respect the privacy in Aruba, even though I hate not knowing everything!!

LOL. Well there are some in here who would hope I would be a "real" prey for him.  :D
But seriously, it would be an interesting online experiment to make up a profile and post a photo and reel this guy in to see just how much info. could be squeezed out of him.

Moving the suspects to prison is really just done due to the fact the jails are not equipped to house inmates for too long.  The report I read indicated the jails are far worse than the prison.

I agree Dragonfly. They seem to follow innocent until proven quilty. Somehow is the US we lost that a long time. Taint our jurys with too much press and don't get ALL the facts together and end up blowing letting criminals walk free.

Then they might be more comfortable in prison.


Ask the men on the radio if the rumor of an increased reward is true?

Please.

im going in one week ,if i hear alot of that and it does nt appear to be true... i may not go backkk.....

Oh I know, K! That little Indian girl was unbelievable.

Nancy....interesting...I can't imagine a Jail being worse than a prison...do you have a link to this information...I am intrigued

Yes, I think the living conditions are always much better in a prison than in jail, but the prison population is usually much worse than the public drunks and shoplifters that are sitting in jail.

:::raises hand::: Oh oh oh I wanna dot hat too! lol Let's see what we get Kerin!!!

Hello everyone...well no the reason they are going to prison is becuase their is a time limit to be in jail and its 12 days....after 12 days their can be an extra few days if the trail cant go to court exactly after 12 days...but after that time if the detention is prolonged they have to be moved to the Prison.....the prison consists mostly of like poeple on the street in fights...or that are caught doning small things...I think their are only like 7 "murderes" in their and most of the poeple are not even local they are poeple nto from aruba that were caught tryign to transport drugs or people awaiting their extradition to the country that is looking for them and they were caught here

People like Marten, are why parents need to monitor their kid's web use. Actually, I'd be appaulled if my kids were using the web to find dates. It's an easy way to get into a lot of trouble. I'm amazed at the number of teens using the web to advertise. Haven't they heard about the pedophiles out there who are watching the web?

kids have wedsites that a parent would never find... sorry

Probably but I doubt the tickle site would do anything. And in Thailand is he breaking any laws? Plus maybe we should keep him online for now.  :D

It's really strange how they operate.  As far as information being released to the public and the press, they definately favor the "suspect".  But as far as being locked up on only suspicion of a crime seems to favor the prosecution.

Anyone US girls on there?

On the Fox report that just ran, they said that the 3 suspects (Juron, Deepak and Satish) may be transferred to the K.I.A. prison this weekend, because typically, suspects are only held in the local jail for 10 days.  So, if they were arrested on June 9, their 10 days would be up this weekend.  FYI, the K.I.A. prison is located in San Nicolas on the south eastern area of the island (see map, partially hiddeny by label with International School). http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Images-Fun/map3.pdf

On another note, Greta left Aruba and went back to U.S.  Her "blog" says she may return on Monday.  I hope she goes back - she gave some good reports...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159910,00.html

http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm

link to aruba's prison info....looks interesting...

Thank god your here AMERICANINARUBA ahaha, i was starting to wonder, anyway i have been trying to get the radio station in aruba but its raining realy realy bad,  so i cant get it transmitted, i am going to buy food please if there is anything new  be sure to call me :0)



YA HEEEEEEERD AIA

it overlooks the ocean
but i don't think that is any comfort to those inside,
   right DJ T??   It be ironic if NH shows up somewhere in time to save Joran from housewaerming party @ kia...

I dont have a link but i can confirm you that yes the prison is better thatn jail....in the jail here at the police departments are cement beds and theirs a hole in the ground that serves as the toilet...adn you get fed i think its bread and cheese...and in prison theirs normal beds...real toilets and normal food and its cooler and less mosquitos and "more comfortable" i dont know how comfortable a prison can be but...its better than the jail in police department

they should take them to curacao prison AHAHHA my god they wont last a day in that prison..........they CONFESS for sure (if it is in fact them) ahahahah anyway i gotta go,..................AIA YOU BETTER KEEP ME POSTED, CALL ME WHEN YOU CAN bye bye (bye bye everyone )

ive seen it up close, what would you like to know...?

Ok I'm out...but ya'll can make those bracelets yourself...see the picture a page back. Doesn't matter what color yarn. Just braid it. Talk to ya'll soon!

ahah you are so right, ahahah housewarming party that put a smile on my face....................

I think it is very possible.
Hey yall

I just happened to see an interview with an Arubian official who said the jails are not equipped to house suspects for too long...he explained there are very specific needs for longer term inmates that they can't provide in the jail.  One example he gave is, there are no areas for meetings with attorneys, interrogations and such, food service is limited, etc.

I appreciate all the work you are doing!

Bye!!!!

one of Greta's live broadcasts showed the jail as being air-conditioned. Is that true?

I'll go ahead and add another point:

75% of the "hard news" being posted is from Fox. FOX REPEATS ALL OF ITS PROGRAMMING FOR DIFFERENT TIME ZONES. When you good folks from Calif. hear a "Breaking Story" it was breaking 3 or 4 hours ago. This is what is causing a TON of the back-and-forth stuff like the judge said this, the judge said that, blahblah. Plus they are trying to keep an audience so they say "Next we go back to Aruba", then jump in with Durbin or Schiavo or whatever, and you wait 10 minutes to get a rehash of something from 2-3-4 hrs. ago. We need to keep in mind that NOTHING on Fox after 9:00 EST is live but the crawls and updates!

THAT is part of the confusion on here too. It feels like one step forward, 3 steps back and people get frustrated.

I wait till 1:00 CST to watch HC and Greta and bear in mind it's a Repeat. That also is when the board slows down!

More later...  :D

will do, MBHS. Thanks so much!

No their are only sertain areas of course...where you go to visit them and such but no the cells are NOT airconditioned unlike the US...they have openeings to the outside no AC

It was an MSM report, can't recall when or where.  However, it confirmed exactly what AmericaninAruba is saying...they made a huge point of saying the jail conditions are really dreadful and very grim.  And yes, the jail was alot better.

181. Anyone suspected of having committed a criminal offence may be held by the police for questioning for a maximum of six hours (2) (section 41 of the Code of Criminal Procedure or "CCP").

Does this mean that they are formally charged?  Because it says here that they cant keep them in the prison for more than 6 hours.

Rob,

I am interested in general details.....I know in the US it is hardcore...there are prison gangs...Inmates that intimidate other inmates...physically, emotionally, sexually....just wondering if the same things occur in Aruba's prison....or if the inmates are more confined so that these acts don't occur.

Hey Shell  :D

BRB

Since the crime rate is so low (supposively) they cant be too bad.  Prisons are better than jails.  Most people in the US would tell you (inmates) that they would rather go to Prison than jail.

I have downloaded a video of the prison from FOX..how do I upload to here???

no its not really like that you dont get lots of "horrible" stories from the prison here its mostly liek the women all practically become lesbos and havce sex with eachother etc....but with the men just fights and stuff no big news really comes form there

HEY KERIN!!!!!!!!  Did thet get charged and I missed it?

No...still the same ole' stuff.

They are talking about the FBI and case on FOX.

They are not asking FBI for help.  The only thing they helped with was the DNA tests.

FOX report is now on the FBI involvement.

1. Offered to do polygraph...not normal procedure

2. Divers not used because no exact site could be pinpointed

3. Forensics are being handed off only to the Dutch

4. FBI there are only guests...used if asked

I wish they would let the FBI take over.  That makes me wonder.  If the FBI is involved Jorans dad couldnt pull any strings.

FOX report is now on 2 NYers killed in St Thomas

Okay all (((hugs))) Not only is my daughter demanding I get off of here.. I have a kitten walking on and attacking my laptop lol Little booger already broke the #4 key off.

Everyone have a wonderful afternoon. I will see you all later!

Kerin I love your signature!!!!  Did you change your name or something.  You should be at 50000 posts by now.

Bye Cali!  :D

Bye Cali!

No. Tom was kind enough to help me after a problem last night. Never had a signature before...added today.

Just chatted with a friend from Mountain Brook who said some of the chaperones have begun to hire lawyers to protect their interests. Can't say I blame 'em with all the accusations that have flown about.

So Chloe...who do you think would try to sue them if not Natalee's family?

I guess I could see why they should all get lawyers, but it seems weird.  Did she say anything else?

LOL! Good point Kerin. No idea. We're such a litigious society though, perhaps hiring a lawyer is just a knee-jerk reaction.

Shellbell - it is a 'he' not a she friend in MB. And I need to correct my statement - -he said he'd heard they've hired a lawyer -- but he did not confirm. So I am now guilty of spreading rumors! ACCK!!!

The link I provided on a report done at the arubian jails and prisons was very interesting...was saying how inhumane the cells were ect...then I looked and realized that I was reading a report from an inspection in 1996... enough of that...waste of time

don't worry...we won't tell  :wink:

Yeah we wont tell!  I dont see how all of these guys could be guilty, and not charged yet.  I wish we knew what they think happened.  It is getting so strange.

I AGREE SHELLBELL last weekend they (authorities) were saying this is "resolved."  And they are still in jail - doesn't make sense unless they are mounting up charges against them

jst a guess, but i think they have just scratched the tip of the icberg, the judge knows this...

i have a feeling with the pace we have been seeing that they are investigating a murder.. not a missing person .. thats why they dont appear to move to fast.. sorry to say that cause, i feel like i know natlalee

jst a guess, but i think they have just scratched the tip of the icberg, the judge knows this...[/quote]
maybe after g unit, the world is mine
then gasolina...
don't know this song...now in pap still hip hop
 :roll:

maybe after g unit, the world is mine
then gasolina...
don't know this song...now in pap still hip hop
 :roll:[/quote]

you listeninng to top 95...i am....

Good post "waiting".

The size of the cells at 9.5 sq m is not that large, but a little larger than the ones at the police stations, although they may put multiple detainees in one cell. Sanitary facilities at 3 sq m per cell. My old slide rule math says that is not very large for cells or santiary facilities.

Food may be a real effort, and I guess only one meal a day. ............possibly only dry food. I read somewhere that a while back 9 of the prisoners there sewed their mouths shut to protest the food quality/quantity. Sorry I don't have the link for that info.

Maybe a real nice "welcome party" is being planned for JVS and his buddies when they arrive this weekend.

dag
j to the lo... before the nite is out we can get right

i believe they are going over to the jail(KIA), in attempt to soft em up.. what ever they were doing before just was nt working.. hence little info from the idiot boys...

Well, I hope they are being smarter than they seem.  Because if they are running this investigation as it appears in the media, there could very well be innocent people in jail, or guilty people on the streets.  I just really feel for Nats family and friends.  They need to step it up a bit.  I still dont understand how they can move them to prison as suspects.
According to the thing I read they can only be held for 6 hours.

the reason they are in jail is because... get this.. they "real" evidence....

does anyone know, just as a matter of interest if the FBI has commented on their involvement or lack of involvement. i don't trust FOX sorry - they are trying to stir things up and now with the resurfacing of geraldo....i think they've lost the plot and it's just about ratings.

a cell phone call from santa cruz does nt look to good....

I have thought maybe they have the outlines of what happened, but they don't want to make formal charges yet because it would "lock in" the parameters of the case and prevent them form carrying it further than the initial charges.

But I would think that someone... like the FBI... would have the decency to fill in the family on just what happened. And my mind keeps going off in directions about that, like... who knows that they HAVEN'T? And they (meaning the FAMILY) are wanting to withhold it until more work is done? Like an actual rescue or recovery IS in the works and for some reason it hasn't all come together yet.

I don't want to think that Natalee's mom is bluffing the bad guys but it is possible IF it was the only way she could be gotten out alive.

They are tight lipped, I just cant figure out if they are doing their job.  Since they are not letting the FBI handle anything but the search of the house.  And DNA, anyway, I have friends and family (unfortunatly) who have went from jail to prison.  And all of them said prison is much better.  Dont know about Aruba.

URGENT!!!!


I need the cached site of Jorans Tickle folder ASAP!!!

Anyone got it!

Update on Fox - Deepak taken to the prison today.

This is from Amy's site   http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/

Steve Croes (26-year-old), the fourth suspect in the case of missing Natalee Holloway, is a nephew of one of the main commentator on Top95 FM.

Again...I may be grasping at nothing...but this info seems to make my suspicion of the photographs yesterday even more interesting...

If somebody can tell me how to look at my old posts...I may be able to find the link for the photographs if anybod is interested

Please explain, havent heard about this.  Trying to catch up, if it wasnt in a bud light I dont know anything since yesterday.

They are telling the parents everything in the investigation (the mother said this on Greta), that is the FBI is.  So I think she knows.

Let me look...

Tom...I only have his waw and myspace sites...

i can only hope she is alive.. because of the psycological torment from the media (reporting invalid info), and the cops(releasing invalid info), i just dont know what to think anymore... i just keep hoping for a break in the case.. thats really all i have left at this point..

the reason they are in jail is because... get this.. they "real" evidence....
[/quote]

i have no desire for any type of cheese rob  but
yes likely plans 4 dinner here
glad you r here so i'm not so lonely

ME THREE   :D  :D  .... but 12 pages behind  :cry:

ROOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
What is the cell phone thingy?

ARRENDS TICKLE SITE SHOWS HE IS ONLINE NOW!!!

I think when they move them to prison they are formally charged with a crime.  So now we will know who was involved.  That is just my opinion.

If anyone has old info on VDS tickle or any other websites, please send them to me...curiosity is killing me... :shock:

Can you send the link by email. Another blogger needs it ASAP for a television appearance tonight

T

Tom...  Just emailed you what I copied from Joran's Tickle site.   I hope it helps!  :)

::edit::  Opps, that might have been from his myspace site! :(  ::end edit::

e mailing everything to you now Tom

joran placed a cell phone call from santa cruz at 6.30 in the morning the day natalee was to leave... kinda funny to be in santa cruz at that hour, unless you were at a rave or underground party...

all I could find  http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=QcGn2JDp8KF_SLPg

Shut up!!!  That is crazy.  Kerin who is online?  What is the site?

i have no desire for any type of cheese rob  but
yes likely plans 4 dinner here
glad you r here so i'm not so lonely[/quote]

im glad too.. were having a huge party tonight so i have to go soon... but good news.. i just saved a load on my car insurance....

Kerin...give me a link!!!

Rob, so they think she was at an underground party maybe?  What if she went there and was drugged, and somethng happened to ehr and they freaked out?

I posted several of the links to their tickle and spaces sites. Catrina kindly put them all here:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=101

damn...that's his brother's tickle site..SORRY

that s what i understand the "latest" theory to be...

There was a call made from Joran's cell phone to the Santa Lucia area on the morning of the 30th at 6 or 6:30am.

Is this what you're after?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:NNB6qRB0YOkJ:www.msnspaces.net/members/joransloot/+inurl:joransloot&hl=en

I thought there was a call at 6:30am from one of the suspects (is there confirmation it was Joran?) from the area of Santa Lucia which is around the wildlife preserve.

hold on...e-mailing Tom

is that official ?
 :roll:
have fun tonite rob

i also heard that the milage on the car did nt add up....as in going to the light house and to the HI and then to vd sloots' "granny house".

that is just so funny ... the granny house....

Was there confirmation that is was Joran's cell phone that made the call?

Just looked at the clock - it's now Happy Hour - so here they come.  :twisted:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=JTEsxOoFidRQgJ_7

this site...shows he is online now!!

maybe  /  maybe not

I'm trying to find confirmation on the cell phone call...

Where has that been confirmed?  I have yet to see anything other than a few posts on a blog's comment section about it.

Someone should try to talk to him.  I am a member of Tickle.

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=rRRaq1KwJGNedEIh

not the cache'   but i think this is his old site

go for it  :D

i just hear what i hear.. thats all......thats what i heard....i believe that is the premise that they are going on... there was no light house, no HI, ... they left C&C and went to santa cruz... or somewhere else on that side of the island...

maybe he was in the bus on the way to school? they have to go through santa cruz

Where is he going?  Why is he saying he is going to miss all of his friends in Aruba? :?

Just a suggestion, but if you're posting something that hasn't been confirmed or verified by any of the MSM try to say so somewhere in your post.  I've seen this on a lot forums/blogs/chats lately, where people will just post speculations and rumors as if they were facts.

That's because he's taking the pictures down. There were 17, and now there's only ten. I'll bet the rest will be down soon. Guess what? I just saved the site of the ten remaining pictures. ANyone else who thinks those pictures might be useful for discussion.....get them now......

We don't now if the cell phone call was from Joran's phone, or FROM anywhere, or TO anywhere with certainty. EVERY OTHER LOCATION on that island is Santa Something-Or-Other. The 6:30 part seems to be all that is established.

The Kalpoes supposedly lived in Hooiberg which is near Santa Cruz. If you look at that map the road from Noord to Santa Cruz to the International School looks like a perfect bypass of Oranjestad to me to avoid morning traffic, even in a small place like that, which would be a pain. Plus being a route that Joran would not have to backtrack on.

If the call was from Santa Cruz it could be any of the 3 and to anyone.

Has anyone figured out yet where Croes lives?

hahahaha....all night partying and still goes to school... what a great kid that vd sloot is......... :shock:

lol, Shell, that will start some drama for sure!!!!  Do it!!!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

okay..I am going to stop trying...that is one of the brother's sites

putting a mute on myself  :oops:

whose phone do you think the call was placed from?

well Arrends just logged off. No changes to his site. So either the cops have access to his site, he gave his password to one of his friends OR they actually allow access to the net from jail!!

I saw that too.  I wondered about that.

How do we even know there was a cell phone call at 6:30?  I'd like to know where this has been verified.

Notice that is the same Larissa that was on Joran's site.

I did, I sounded like an idiot.  My pic os on my site, so maybe he will think I am cute and talk to me?  Gee I hope I dont make him mad!

Why do you say access from jail? Max Arends was the friend who was questioned and released. Nowhere have I read that he's in jail.

Actually, maybe he's going to miss his freinds because his freinds are all going to jail!

Ok I dont know if your being sarcastic or what but just incase...he went to school that monday

good catch, Curiosity. I didn't count the photos last night.  :(

Oh crap, that is the dude in jail?????????????????????????  What did I just do.  GREAT!!!!!  I said we were on this site.  Im scared!

Um, NOOOO. Max Arends is the guy who was questioned and released. He's not in jail.

thanks KERIN..is it just me, or does the brother not look just like joran..and what a coincidence about the girlfriends name!!!! Also, does anyone have any info about one of his sites claiming that he was a "pimp and a roofie king"? That is just what i had heard, dont wanna add to the rumor mill.....

 :shock:

Hi, I'm new and have been reading all along so am pretty caught up. Even read last night's bizarro stuff and fwiw, think your forum and members are just great.  Anyhoo, I clicked your link to Deepak and noticed it said he's been on in the past 4 days.  Someone must have access to their passwords, but who?

Oh, and I hope Kerin does go undercover and bust that pedo perv, Marten. Creepy.

the authorities have check the phone records .....and know which tower was used .. and which phone made the call....i dont think aruba hase laws against undue search and seizure....they are tearing apart those computers also... you know what that will turn up...

sorry to be lost but who are you talkgin about?? the ARends boy?? if you are its because he GRADUATED and hes leaving the island to go to college

I hope you saved the text of the messages also.

yes i know he went to school.. and yes i was being sarcastic.. i gotta go.. good luck evryone...

Thanks everyone, I think we got it.

Tom

Wow I am finding alot of sites that are friends of the boys on tickle.

SHELL!!!! You invited him in here?? (don't know if I should laugh or cry)

Can someone give me a list of all the guys involved first names or the name they go by?

oh shit shell!! can  tom do somehting about this?? well have to strat usign codes then! what to do waht to do!

No no...not what I meant! Sorry for the confusion!!

Hi All~

Actually pried myself away from the computer and the tv for a little while this afternoon - my husband thinks I have lost my mind . . .

Missed the Fox News special at 3pm EST, am right to guess that there weren't any major revelations?

Please let the agony end for Natalee's family and friends!!!!!!

max arehnt is going to miss hiss friends because he is going to study in the usa . Very interesting developments, with regards to the rave party it all adds up with the disc jockey and all ,

Message was posted originally by at the TRIP ADVISOR forum.. he's there now.. let me ask him over there..

>LLLemire
>Posted on: 10:30 pm, 15 June 2005
>
>Found it!
>Also another interesting post on the Visit Aruba Bulletin Board:
"On Natalee's Yahoo forum there there is a report that a heliocopter is
searching Santa Lucia area because according to the cell phone records
of one of the three suspects there was a call in the Santa Lucia area
at 6:30 am the morning Natalee was to have met up with the group to leave for airport.

>Santa Lucia is is in Santa Cruz....pass the Ayo Rock Formations....
Right where they have the Donkey sanctuary

http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=H6GpnevoxkLccb78#
Interesting?

Thanks! I just created the fake webpage to talk to Marten. I used ShellBell's photo.  :shock:

SO other than the above post where is the confirmation or evidence for this call placed at 6:30?

Someone asked a few pages back about a search fund for Natalee.  I am not sure about Mountain Brook, but I do know that one has been set up in Meridian where her father lives.  

Link to the bank's website: http://www.trustmark.com/

From our local news (WTOK-TV):
http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/1643201.html

Holloways' Friends Lend a Hand
Meridian, Miss.
Aisha Greer

Police investigating the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway carried out a pre-dawn helicopter survey of the Caribbean Island Thursday, but have not said what they discovered, if anything.

In Meridian, friends of the Holloway family are trying to help in a major way with the family's expenses.

Authorities have yet to say what, if anything, they have found after searching the home of a Dutch teenager in Aruba. FBI agents say he is the prime suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

Joran Van Der Sloot, 17, the son of a local justice official, was with the 18-year-old Mississippi native the night she disappeared. Two of his friends, brothers from Surinam were with them, and are also in police custody.

"They have a different story every time. It makes me wonder. There was no dropping her off at the hotel. Something happened," said Linda Allison, Natalee's aunt.

So far, none of the three has been charged with a crime. On Wednesday, their lawyers demanded to be shown some type of evidence against their clients.

"They want to have certain documents pertaining to the case, but since the case is still going on, if they get those documents, it may be harmful to the case," said Marianne Croes, the prosecutor's spokesperson.

While police continue investigating the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba, friends of Dave and Robin Holloway, Natalee's father and stepmother who live in Meridian, are trying to assist the family financially by holding a fundraiser.

"We're just trying to do what we can. It is a sad situation and it is only right for us to do something," said Andrew Hart, a friend of Dave Holloway.

According to Hart, Dave Holloway has already spent almost $20,000 so far in the search for his daughter.

"We will be collecting funds at the (Mississippi) Braves game (in Pearl, Miss.) before and after the game," he said, referring to the June 17 game versus West Tennessee, starting at 7:05 p.m.

"We're just doing what we can to help," said Steve DeSalvo, general manager of the Mississippi Braves, who was in Meridian Thursday.

The money collected will be put into the "Help Find Natalee" Fund set up at Trustmark National Bank, to which anyone may donate just by going to any branch and designating the gift.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA AHHAHAHAHAHAH i cant stop laguhing! hahahaha well she cant be mad since she invited max into our private investigation! LOL hahahahhaha

Hi LilOrphan - thanks and welcome aboard!

I missed something what is this about Granny's house?

Is the guy I posted his site in jail.  I found that on Tickle and alot of his pics are from tatto?
http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?id=EcaQMDPNoa63QumR

Kerin make sure that picture looks like someone 15 or younget.

LOL.....he's added three new photos in a special album about his graduation. Does he think everyone will think he's a great guy just because he graduated?? LOL

americaninaruba, just "click the ignore button" in your brain.  There's no rule that you have to answer a question that's asked of you.

That will help us all keep our sanity.  I think we were baited into arguments last night.

now we finally know how Scared Monkeys will factor into this investigation. ShellBell is going to "cyber date" one of the people questioned!!

Hey that dude can easily look at my site, my pic is on there.  Along with all my other crap!

hahahahahaahahhaha, they are too young for me.

questioned and released

No, this is a different guy!  Look.

Darwin Dubero?  Ever heard of him.  Most of his pics were taken at Tattoo.

How did "we" get to this guy?  How is he connected?

And you know, another question or comment really. . . . I can't believe that this many people might have been involved or know something and no one has really started to "sing" yet!!

ah ok. I see it is "darwin".
so if anyone else has a cache of anything from Joran's original sites, I think Tom still needs it for tonight.

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ummm how is it that the brothers have visited their site in the past week?  I guess somebody in their family is accessing them?   (((hears the twilight theme song)))

You have a good point. Plus, if there really was a party, you'd think there would be a few more witnesses.

y start drama is right, wwwizzard

READ from TA:

natalie's
US          Posted on: 10:52 pm, yesterday

That phone call was made on Sunday morning, not Monday morning from the cell phone

natalie's  
US         Posted on: 2:29 am, Jun 15, 2005

I wasn't on the trip, but I really wish I had of been. She was my neice and my friend and I really miss her. You would have liked her

Eduard?  Ever heard of him?  Ooooooooooooooooo  I am doing some serious investigating on Tickle.

New here, too.

You've got some good detectives here. I've been looking at the links and shaking my head.  Quite the little party crew - probably making extra bucks on these underground events.

Wonder if anyone down there knows who usually printed up the flyers and who distributed them. Also, bet this Croes DJ'd for the underground events as well as the Tattoo cruises.

lol...sorry, I missed that while I was in my room considering taking a power nap.  That was funny!  Poor guy, all his friends are in jail.

If JVDS is the prime suspect then where is the search along the route he must have to used to get to school 5 hours after driving off with Natalee?
He was at the southern tip of Aruba - has anyone searched there or just the northern part where the boys told them to search.
I am disgusted by these 3 liars and the police that run around for them. The FBI could help but the Arubians are thwarting them at every turn even though they profess to being overwhelmed by this, because it never happens in Aruba. It is all a lot of talk and not a lot of action.
The powers-that-be in Aruba should decide whether they want to destroy their primary source of revenue (tourism) or keep their colonial practices that enable a sorry bunch of wealthy punks to commit a crime and walk away laughing.

This area the phone call was made from.  On all of these sites these kids are from there.  They seem like wild partiers.  However I do not see Joran linked to any of them.  Only through the brothers.  It is obvious that he was seperated from this group.  Until recently.

(http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=RMzm1_DHAMUbwV36)

People need to look at Larissa's pictures.  She also has one with Joran sait at Amazonia's first night whatever that is.

thx for clearing that one up cancun?

Yeah, I don't see much connecting him to the brothers before the night in question.

I have a question from last night on that. The US news is still saying this guy is the "DJ" but our Aruban friends say "boat captain". Do we have facts on which it is?

Dragon I am beginning to wonder if this could have actually been gang related, not like an organized gang.  Why would he try to join these punks.

http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=VjVrG5D54kKLWeYQ
trying again.

Look at the last two pictures--party peep and more party peep.  Plus there is one of her and Joran.

sorry, wrong blog :-)

maybe it is an expensive
too xpensive song...

i guess there wasn't much to the venezuela thing?

also, when i was in my truck about an hour ago(or so), i heard sean hannity on his radio show say they were following a few new leads on this case........i never heard anything.....?

We don't know that the investigation is talk and no action.  Just because they haven't released every single step to the media doesn't mean they're not doing anything.  This is a different culture.  We need to get away from the idea that the public is going to know every step that happens.  I don't see how they're destroying their primary source of revenue.  Even the people who started the Ban Aruba (Come to Aruba hee hee) petition have more signatures against the boycott than for.

Yeah.  This hasn't been debated too much.  Most figured this out eons ago.  Your limits are staggering.

Larissa is a clasmate of joran..her father is a doctor here...she never really hugn out with huim just for schoool events but she is on eof those popular school girls thatss everywhre you know?? shes just very oput going and fun girl apparently but not really "FREINDS" with joran just knew him apparantly....

Larissa is on a lot of sites that I have been looking at period.  Maybe she should be a guest in here.  Sorry not sending no more messages.  Last one freaked me out.

She has three pictures with him on tickle.

Wrong blog again?  :lol:  :lol:

http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=dO1h8AkhCPygxILN


look who is in this pic

Interesting that two photos after the one of her and Joran, she labels the pic as a group partying in Venezuela....the back left guy could pass for Joran's younger brother too.

Yelp- sure looks like Joran likes that one shirt- seems to wear it a lot

Ami cu Omar


open that pic

What's the over under Special K in Tx might get a clue...?

On more than one occasion, I have seen press conferences given by US police where they declined to answer certain questions citing a pending/ongoing investigation.

I'm not sure that the practice of witholding information regarding evidence in criminal investigations is a unique to Aruba.

K...did you notice that she states "party people in VENEZUELA"??

How about this one?....
http://connect.tickle.com/photo/index.html?albumid=RMzm1_DHAMUbwV36 and scroll through the Joran&me album..what's up with "Venezuela"?

I don't recall a confirmation on the 6:30am phone call from Joran to someone unknown.  Do we know that call was made for sure?

now what i want to know is how many of these people are in each others albums........

this is all a little strange....there seems to be one hell of an underground network for these kids.......

Told yall to look at his site!!!!!  I cant remember all the names and stuff like yall but I knew there were alot of pics of familiar faces on there.

Yes Kerin I might have noticed.

FYI...that Larissa girl...or whatever her name is...I saw on another site some pictures of them partying...on her site you can see there is a picture of her in the shower...one of the pics I saw on the other site was of her and Joran in that same shower....must be pretty good friends...eh?

Regarding 6:30 am cell phone call..


LLLemire replies:

UGhhh Robert.... I can't remember..... I would say SM. I would
have to go back and research that one. Its says in there yahoo.
board. It was a post from someone I think. But then I remember
reading that several people said the same thing too. Let me
know if you want me to try and find it again. I know there
were several posts about it.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-l958846-k175169-i9659-Off_topic_chatter.html#958846


Robert J says:
LLLemire,
Would appreciate it.. I went over to yahoo to try and find it
first but didn't see it.

---
MAYBE THEY NEVER EVER WENT TO THE LIGHTHOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE (??).. i.e. do you think they could be lying??


---
This forum moves so fast.. I have to hold on with BOTH HANDS!!
"The louder you scream.. the faster we go!!

air I think me and you are on the same level!!!  It is no wonder that nats mom expects more arrests.  I think they took her to a rave, and well you heard the rest of my theory.