Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 - 5/17/09

[Tamikosmom]

Thankyou Keepthefaith

Please dont take this the wrong way monkeys
because I believe you's are absolutely incredible
and you's should all get medals for your
magnificent efforts

but when you's are kicking the persistence and their
connections around  there is absolutely no
pressure what so ever on the three idiots and their
accomplices

even if we keep guessing at things and perhaps make
hits or near hits once in a while it will keep some
pressure n the dirty scumbags and maybe just
maybe one will crack
you's are amazing people

Another attempt to take the focus off the Persistence ... off of Kyle Kingman's own words.  IMO.

Although Americans must be reminded of the corrupt investigation that prevent justice from prevailing for one of their own ... focus must be kept on Kyle Kingman's own words which imply that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been placed in the trap as well as the John Silvetti's ultimate betrayal.

Kyle Kingman and Tim Trahan along with the ROV footage have the ability to blow this aspect of the Aruban coverup wide open.  My prayer is that these two men will do what is right and ... the FBI can then bring pressure on Aruba to afford the family the opportunity to lay Natalee to rest on American soil.

My prayer is that something is already going on behind the scenes.

Janet

BUMPED!!

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

2007

THE OCEAN SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

In mid December of 2007 a crew of Americans on board a vessel named The Persistence begins a search for Natalee Holloway's remains in the waters off Aruba.  On Christmas Day a discovery is made while sonar scanning the ocean floor.  The discovery was a large fish trap.  On December 29th an ROV is ultilized to capture images of what is contained within.

Kyle Kingman, the ROV operator and remote analysis on board the Persistence, came to the conclusion that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been placed within that trap.

However, on a December 30, 2007, Aruban divers claimed that their investigation revealed there was nothing related to the Natalee Holloway case inside the trap.

John Silvetti, the Project Lead on board the Persistence, accepted the words of the Aruban divers unconditionally.   
______

The Persistence - Key Personnal

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Donated the R/V Persistence for the search effort.
http://silvettigroup.com/

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.

Kyle Kingman: Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.

Kyle Kingman:  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.

Kyle Kingman:  John (Silvetti) is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


2008

THE RECOVERY DIVE

On January 7, 2008 Aruban divers sampled and recovered the contents of the large fish trap disovered with sonar on the ocean floor off the coast of Aruba on Christmas Day, 2007 by the ROV operator and remote analyst on board the Persistence.

The crew of the Persistence were not involved in the recovery process ... only the Arubans.
________

In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

[wreck]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

December '08 was only 6 months ago. 

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER


PRIVATE EYE - NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM »  

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880

[Magnolia]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

December '08 was only 6 months ago. 

The Persistence search had already been exposed.

[wreck]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

December '08 was only 6 months ago. 

(right in the heart of exposing the Persistence)

[2NJSons_Mom]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

December '08 was only 6 months ago. 

I'm sorry, Wreck.  I had the Persistence on my mind and those wires crossed.  My bad....I was trying to link the search, the pond, etc.  My how the times flies.   

[klaasend]

Not referring to any one particular poster because we have had a handful that started posting right around December 2008. 

Reasons why someone would register to post in a missing persons case 4 years after the fact:

1.  Just woke up from a coma after nearly 4 years
2.  Guido broke all their fingers in 2005 and they are just healed enough to type now 
3.  They are reincarnations of a previously banned SM member
4.  To entertain themselves
5.  To distract and change the subject

Any other suggestions? 

[wreck]

Not referring to any one particular poster because we have had a handful that started posting right around December 2008. 

Reasons why someone would register to post in a missing persons case 4 years after the fact:

1.  Just woke up from a coma after nearly 4 years
2.  Guido broke all their fingers in 2005 and they are just healed enough to type now 
3.  They are reincarnations of a previously banned SM member
4.  To entertain themselves
5.  To distract and change the subject

Any other suggestions? 

I vote for #3 and #5.

[wreck]

Not referring to any one particular poster because we have had a handful that started posting right around December 2008. 

Reasons why someone would register to post in a missing persons case 4 years after the fact:

1.  Just woke up from a coma after nearly 4 years
2.  Guido broke all their fingers in 2005 and they are just healed enough to type now 
3.  They are reincarnations of a previously banned SM member
4.  To entertain themselves
5.  To distract and change the subject

Any other suggestions? 

(I think Guido is too limp-wristed to break any fingers) 

[Tamikosmom]

I bet some heads are going to roll at MCKINSEY AND COMPANY with the outing of ohcanada.  The company's clients in Aruba .. the ATA/AHATA ... are not going to be pleased.

This is unbelieveable!

 

Janet

I don't know if there is a connection to AHATA -- I just asked.

wreck ... who do you believe hired MCKINSEY AND COMPANY to infilrate the SM Natalee Forum?

Janet

Why have someone register December, 2008 or thereabout if this is the case?  Why did the member, when accepted, wait over a year to post?   These are questions I have at the moment, and they go hand in hand with yours.  

2NJ

ohcanada registered on December 5, 2008 ... not even six months ago and ... submitted his/her first post on March 27, 2009.

ohcanada's registration and the anticipation of the Persistence arrival into Aruban waters coincided perfectly.

I do believe the forum was being professionally infiltrated and scrutinized by the "powers that be" in Aruba from the getgo.

Then there were our prodical Monkeys who were frantically attempting to prevent Kermit from revealing Kyle Kingman's own word ... his own words that exposed an ultimate betrayal of Natalee and her family.

The upholding of John Silvetti and ... the upholding of a distraction named CAPS was where it was at.  Justice for Natalee Holloway took a backseat.

 

Janet

[klaasend]

I really wasn't thinking about THAT Guido 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Some will now say that I don't know what year I'm in (no biggie), but it's really sad that after four years everything seems like it happened yesterday to me.     

[texasmom]

Just a reminder for anyone that missed the Natalee Holloway movie, or wants to see it again....it starts in 24 minutes on Lifetime Movie Network!

 

[ohcanada]

keepthefaith
im sorry i cant come up with somethig on
the American traitors right now

im a little tired from all the questions

i signed up in december and was going to post
but i couldnt figure out how

i still dont know how to get the things to roll forward
or how to get the monkey thingees to work
or how to post pictures proper

[MuffyBee]

Some will now say that I don't know what year I'm in (no biggie), but it's really sad that after four years everything seems like it happened yesterday to me.     

2nj, it IS really sad that four years have gone past and we're still trying to bring Natalee home.

[2NJSons_Mom]

keepthefaith
im sorry i cant come up with somethig on
the American traitors right now

im a little tired from all the questions

i signed up in december and was going to post
but i couldnt figure out how

i still dont know how to get the things to roll forward
or how to get the monkey thingees to work
or how to post pictures proper

You did figure out how to post, so give it some time, ohcanada.  Hit refresh and when the page changes, click on the next page #.   Check out the Help section on how to do things. 

I'm going to check my calendars to make sure I'm looking at the right month, next.   

[wreck]

I really wasn't thinking about THAT Guido 

[wreck]

keepthefaith
im sorry i cant come up with somethig on
the American traitors right now

im a little tired from all the questions

i signed up in december and was going to post
but i couldnt figure out how

i still dont know how to get the things to roll forward
or how to get the monkey thingees to work
or how to post pictures proper

You sure knew how to post pictures of Natalee's Mountain Brook friend and insinuated she was witholding information!