Natalee Case Discussion #690 11/21 - 11/23/2007

[Observer]

We love ya Natalee!!
Here are a few screencaps from the Paul Reynolds interview:By LOUSW

[GrnLizrd]

OK now that i can post lol I was wondering... This am on CNN the woman lawer for Joran ... She said "he is being requestioned about the crime well I mean not the crime just going over original statements" I was like opps u really screwed up with that! I think it spoke Volumes as to what she does and doesnt know! Im wondering is anyone else saw it was tryin to find vid of it all mornin but no luck. if it has been said im sorry just been trying to catch up and get signed in

[klaasend]

OK now that i can post lol I was wondering... This am on CNN the woman lawer for Joran ... She said "he is being requestioned about the crime well I mean not the crime just going over original statements" I was like opps u really screwed up with that! I think it spoke Volumes as to what she does and doesnt know! Im wondering is anyone else saw it was tryin to find vid of it all mornin but no luck. if it has been said im sorry just been trying to catch up and get signed in

That was Rosemary Arnold who works with Joe T.  They are NOT Joran's criminal attorneys they are his civil.  They cannot practice in Aruba or the NL.  They are FOS.

[Kermit]

[SunnyinTX]

Sunny... I haven't seen anywhere them saying where the other Kalpoe was picked up, just one at home and the other....

Agree with you all about the eyes from afar. Wonder if it's true that the younger Sloot was bought in with Anita? He was supposedly on the computer that night, not sure from where though. I also wonder when Joran broke his Thone? Always assumed it was prior to all this, now I'm not so sure.

thanks for responding.....I wonder if he was taken into custody first and possibly said something? confirmed something? 

Happy Thanksgiving, Sunny.  Good to see you here.  I love your cute avatar.  IT is so YOU.

Thanks Tyler....I keep missing you.....CBB/Klaas did a great job on all the avatars

[GrnLizrd]

TY for welcome bk and welcome bk to so many names i see.
Wasnt sure because the reported just said one of his att. Ty for clearing that up but it was a BIG blunder in her wording and she sure knew it by the look on her face lol

[klaasend]

TY for welcome bk and welcome bk to so many names i see.
Wasnt sure because the reported just said one of his att. Ty for clearing that up but it was a BIG blunder in her wording and she sure knew it by the look on her face lol

Did you see this I posted for you, LOL   

[Puzzler]

What a wonderful Thanksgiving Day!!  J2K in jail and lots of rain!!!

Klaas, satellite image is a great thought.  You could on to something.  I do believe there is some version of pictures that they have found.  What about those recent drug raids?  Do you think any evidence could have been discovered in those raids??

Joran seems to be very protective his father.  They need to go get Paulus!!! Then let Joran know his father is in custody.  That'll make the boy nervous!!! 

O/T can someone tell me if there is step-by-step instructions posted somewhere on how to change an avatar.  I want to get rid of my Halloween avatar and go back to my original one.  TIA.

[GrnLizrd]

OMg You did that so fast you r magic now im trying to put it on lol You the bestest!

[klaasend]

From Scrux:

Jonathan45


Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 139

 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Anita van der Sloot said on the phone on Dutchtelevision [SBS-Actienieuws] tonight that she was told by the police that there will be a full reconstruction based on the timeline and the OM-woman Dop Kruimel stated new evidence was found by using new forensic technics.
She also confirmed that the remains of Natalee Holloway not have been found.
 

[klaasend]

OMg You did that so fast you r magic now im trying to put it on lol You the bestest!

I just added instructions in the Monkey Lounge again, couldn't find the old instructions. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2377.0

[NYC_lover]

Which Dutch attorney/lawyer has Joran?

Bram Moszkowicz  * Dutch best lawyer
Peter Plasman
Geert-Jan Knoops
Oscar Hammerstein  
Gerard Spong
Jan-Hein Kuijpers
Victor Koppe
Gabriel Meijers

Or another attorney/lawyer?

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Julie Banderas with Paul Reynolds Nov 22, 2007 TRANSCRIPT

Fox News Channel
Julie Banderas

November 22, 2007

Julie:

The Chief Prosecutor in this case, Karin Janssen, she stepped down and you've got this new guy two and a half years later; what do you think? he apparently has nothing to do with Dave Holloway's own personal investigation. I mean, do you feel Dave got these tips and that's what led to these arrests? Are these two totally separate cases?

Paul Reynolds:

What I can tell you on this Thanksgiving day, we are thankful that the prosecutor and the investigators have continued to pursue this case and hopefully are bringing it to a resolution. We greatly appreciate their efforts and whether or not we have evidence of information that could help the prosecution, our family has always been willing to do whatever is necessary to assist in that process.

Julie:

We thank you for talking to us, Paul and give our thoughts of course to your family. I know this is a very difficult time especially falling on Thanksgiving. but we hope you get some answers finally. Thank you.

[the big hammer]

Voluntary Manslaughter

From wikipedia:

Voluntary Manslaughter is the intentional killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion", under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed. In the Uniform Crime Reports prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation it is referred to as nonnegligent manslaughter.

Provocation

Provocation consists of the reasons for which one person kills another. "Adequate" or "reasonable" provocation is what makes the difference between voluntary manslaughter and murder. According to the book Criminal Law Today, “provocation is said to be adequate if it would cause a reasonable person to lose self-control” [1] For example, if a man were to come home and find his wife in bed with another man and kill both of them in a jealous rage, this would be considered adequate provocation and thus voluntary manslaughter.

State of mind

Voluntary Manslaughter is usually committed under one of the two states of mind, which are adequate cause and sudden passion. Adequate cause can be defined as “a cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind of the defendant incapable of objective reflection.” [2] In other words adequate cause means an occurrence where the defendant is placed in a situation that makes them so furious that they go on to kill the victim. The key element, however, is that they do not even consider their actions and hence the element of premeditation is removed.

Sudden passion can be defined as “passion directly caused by and rising out of provocation by the victim or of another acting with the victim.” It is important to understand that “the passion arises at the time of the killing and is not solely the result of former provocation.” [2] This is where the behaviour of the victim provoked the killer to react in the heat of the moment and an unadulterated logical thought process is utterly absent. Thus, the killer behaves in a manner he might not ordinarily be expected to behave in. Examples include the murder of a family member or catching someone cheating on a spouse.

Intent to Kill

Intent to kill is normally present during a voluntary manslaughter, but is not required. Since most heat of passion and imperfect self-defense killings involve intent to kill, typically voluntary manslaughters involve intentional killings. However, there are occasions when intent to kill is not present, although malice is, such as, for example, where a person responds to oral provocation by engaging in physical altercation. The provocation is sufficient so that his response is justified. He intends only to beat up those who have teased him, but someone unfortunately dies. The crime is voluntary manslaughter despite the absence of intent to kill.

US Criminal Code, max sentence is 10 years.

So they are avoiding murder charge.

What do they have that says: "Voluntary Manslaughter" would be easier to prosecute?

.

[Puzzler]

Am I wrong....isn't it noteworthy that Dave has hired a boat search now when we know that Tim Miller will soon be performing a search? 

Klaas, thank you for the instructions.

[klaasend]

Am I wrong....isn't it noteworthy that Dave has hired a boat search now when we know that Tim Miller will soon be performing a search? 

Klaas, thank you for the instructions.

I think Dave's boat and Tim's boat/search are the same thing 

[klaasend]

Hammer - yes, I think manslaughter will be easier to get a conviction on.  Premeditated Murder would have been much more difficult.

[Puzzler]

Okay, thanks for clearing it up for me.  I guess I was interrupting incorrectly...when I read that Dave had hired a search "today", I was taking it literally. 

[klaasend]

Okay, thanks for clearing it up for me.  I guess I was interrupting incorrectly...when I read that Dave had hired a search "today", I was taking it literally. 

Dave mentioned on TV yesterday that he had just looked at the ship that would be doing the search.  I'm assuming it's the same ship Tim Miller has been talking about.  I could be wrong and their could be 2 difference ocean searches.  Didn't Dr. Hodges mention something about 2 different ocean searches on Dana last night?

I still think Dave is working with Tim on this one though.

[wreck]

Okay, thanks for clearing it up for me.  I guess I was interrupting incorrectly...when I read that Dave had hired a search "today", I was taking it literally. 

Dave mentioned on TV yesterday that he had just looked at the ship that would be doing the search.  I'm assuming it's the same ship Tim Miller has been talking about.  I could be wrong and their could be 2 difference ocean searches.  Didn't Dr. Hodges mention something about 2 different ocean searches on Dana last night?

I still think Dave is working with Tim on this one though.

I got the impression that there 2 ships -- 1 expedition.