Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18/09 - 2/21/09

[billb's daughter]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

In all ports ship captains usually yield to a local Captain (called a Pilot) that is certified as an expert in the local waters. The Pilot meets the ship just outside the harbor and then commands the ship to its berth. If Eduardo is a certified Pilot for aruba waters, it would make sense that he was onboard. That also has implications insurance wise if something happened to the ship without a Pilot in command. 

Thanks, Billb.  I didn't know that.  I know that in Key West during the Offshore Powerboat Races each
crew would recruit a local to ride along for the race to help navigate the waters.

Y/W Magnolia...
Pilots are used for large commercial ships and military, merchant marine ships....Any ship that risks a major liability if something happens would use a Pilot; in fact, most major harbors insist their Pilot is used.

[Tamikosmom]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

Magnolia

It is Jossy Mansur's words in the above email sent to Hotshot that has me concerned that Eduardo ... the Mansurs ... may be involved with the coverup as it relates to the cage/trap.

My take is that either Eduardo Mansur is lying regarding the cage/trap or Kyle Kingman is lying.  Their accounts contradict each other.  Think about.  Something akin to Kyle Kingman ... Eduardo Mansur was on the boat every day.  Why is Eduardo Mansur exposing the John Silvetti deception?

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Lifesong...This is EXCELLENT!
I noticed Red's comment, but I didn't see him credited (I'm sure that wasn't your intent - just wanted to point it out)
I will just come out and say it only because I am shocked at the quick pace of the termination of the search.  WHO THE HELL WAITS UNTIL LAST MINUTE TO ASK FOR HELP IN DONATIONS ONLY TO ONE DAY LATER LEAVE ANYHOW!!!  You could have least given it a chance.  I am sorry, but that makes no sense coming from a business man like Louis Schafer. Long ago he could have contacted SM and done a media blitz that would have donated funds. Also, people of major means could have been asked.  However, for the most part this type of money is not gained thru public solicitation ... its gained thru millionaires private Rolodex.
I hope there is another more positive reason.”

Still asking for donations on April 3rd IIRC!!

[Tamikosmom]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

Magnolia

It is Jossy Mansur's words in the above email sent to Hotshot that has me concerned that Eduardo ... the Mansurs ... may be involved with the coverup as it relates to the cage/trap.

My take is that either Eduardo Mansur is lying regarding the cage/trap or Kyle Kingman is lying.  Their accounts contradict each other.  Think about.  Something akin to Kyle Kingman ... Eduardo Mansur was on the boat every day.  Why is Eduardo Mansur NOT   exposing the John Silvetti deception?

Janet

EDIT

[texasmom]

<snipped>

The first post of CapsLockWizard’s posted on: (SM) January 17, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Remains were taken on January 17 sent to the FBI on January 22/24...

<snipped>

Kermit ... I believe this quote is very important but ... I cannot locate it.  I went to CAPS profile and the following post shows as his very first submission to the SM forum.  I tried googling ... thinking that it may have been a Front Page comment but ... nothing.

Could the post regarding the "remains" have been deleted upon request.

 

Janet

+++++++


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16
« Reply #316 on: January 18, 2008, 02:18:50 AM »

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329723#msg329723

Janet,
I don't believe that the sentence about the remains is intended to be a quote from caps.

I believe the intent of the two statements, is the timing of the remains being collected, and Caps beginning to post on the SM forum.  

However, I thought the remains were collected on January 7th, not the 17th.


Still interesting timing.  imo

[Tamikosmom]

Is Eduardo Mansur a qualified ship's pilot.  I thought his claim to fame was co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue.

Janet

+++++


Tuscaloosa News

Aruba group seeking divers to search for Natalee Holloway
August 24, 2005

An Aruba group is seeking divers to continue the search for Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who went missing nearly three months ago on the Dutch Caribbean island.

The group wants to lead the divers in exploring waters off Aruba’s east coast, where Holloway was staying with 124 Mountain Brook High School classmates, said Eduardo Mansur, co-founder of the Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation, which has been helping search for the teenager since she vanished May 30.

Although the waters have been searched before, the group wants to try again with the help of a machine invented by an American who claims it can detect human bones and teeth under water, Mansur said. The inventor, Joe Walker, came to Aruba to help in the search, Mansur said.

“We have been working very hard on the case from the beginning,” Mansur said. “We are following all leads.”

Mansur said he and Walker are recruiting local divers. He said they will start when enough divers volunteer.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/24/aruba-group-seeking-divers-to-search-for-missing-us-teen/

[Magnolia]

Well, I vote for Kyle being the liar.

I guess if the email had not come through Hotshot, I might put more faith in it.
We do not know if it is intact as written by Jossy or what specific questions Jossy
was responding to.

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

The first post of CapsLockWizard’s posted on: (SM) January 17, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Remains were taken on January 17 sent to the FBI on January 22/24...

<snipped>

Kermit ... I believe this quote is very important but ... I cannot locate it.  I went to CAPS profile and the following post shows as his very first submission to the SM forum.  I tried googling ... thinking that it may have been a Front Page comment but ... nothing.

Could the post regarding the "remains" have been deleted upon request.

 

Janet

+++++++


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16
« Reply #316 on: January 18, 2008, 02:18:50 AM »

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329723#msg329723

Janet,
I don't believe that the sentence about the remains is intended to be a quote from caps.

I believe the intent of the two statements, is the timing of the remains being collected, and Caps beginning to post on the SM forum.  

However, I thought the remains were collected on January 7th, not the 17th.


Still interesting timing.  imo

Hi texasmom.

An original source would be appreciated nevertheless.  Maybe Kermit can help tomorrow.

Janet

Edit typo

[Keepthefaith]

Creditors Ask Court to Convert Superior Offshore’s Bankruptcy to Chapter 7
December 25, 2008 · No Comments
Yesterday, Louis E. Schaefer, Jr. and Schaefer Holdings, LP, which identify themselves as “creditors and equity holders,” filed a motion requesting that the bankruptcy court convert the bankruptcy cases of Superior Offshore International, Inc. and its affiliates from cases under chapter 11 to cases under chapter 7 of the Bankruptcy Code.  The companies filed for bankruptcy on April 24, 2008 and is currently pursuing confirmation of a Plan of Liquidation that has been jointly proposed with the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors.  The companies and the Committee filed a First Amended Joint Plan of Liquidation on December 16, 2008 and a hearing on confirmation of that Plan is currently scheduled to commence on January 28, 2009.


http://netdockets.wordpress.com/2008/12/25/

[Magnolia]

<snipped>

The first post of CapsLockWizard’s posted on: (SM) January 17, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Remains were taken on January 17 sent to the FBI on January 22/24...

<snipped>

Kermit ... I believe this quote is very important but ... I cannot locate it.  I went to CAPS profile and the following post shows as his very first submission to the SM forum.  I tried googling ... thinking that it may have been a Front Page comment but ... nothing.

Could the post regarding the "remains" have been deleted upon request.

 

Janet

+++++++


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16
« Reply #316 on: January 18, 2008, 02:18:50 AM »

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329723#msg329723

Janet,
I don't believe that the sentence about the remains is intended to be a quote from caps.

I believe the intent of the two statements, is the timing of the remains being collected, and Caps beginning to post on the SM forum.  

However, I thought the remains were collected on January 7th, not the 17th.


Still interesting timing.  imo

Hi texasmom.

An original source would be appreciated nevertheless.  Maybe Kermit can help tomorrow.

Edit typo

Janet

I believe that Kermit got the quote from Lifesong's timeline.

[Magnolia]

I just heard on the news about an 80 something year old man who got
frustrated because he couldn't get his DTV converter box to work and shot
his TV.
Neighbors heard the shot and called the police, who sent in a SWAT team.
The man surrendered peacefully to the police and nobody was hurt except
the TV.

 

[Tamikosmom]

Well, I vote for Kyle being the liar.

I guess if the email had not come through Hotshot, I might put more faith in it.
We do not know if it is intact as written by Jossy or what specific questions Jossy
was responding to.

 

I don't.  I am a Kyle Kingman believer.

All those posts brought over from the Natalee's Freebirds' site tell a story of deception ... a story of deception that confirmed my suspicions from when I first learned that Americans were not involved in the chain of custody in regards to the contents.

Eduard Mansur account implies that the cage/trap was nothing case related.  John Silvetti's account implies that the cage/trap was nothing case related.

However ... Kyle Kingman goes much further than implying that the cage/trap could be case related.  This professional ROV analyst goes into detail why the contents of the cage/trap could be case related in post after post after post .

Janet

+++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Fabric - Tarp - Vertibre - Skull

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:   The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle:   … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle:  I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.  Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of  vertebrae.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle:  The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle:  In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand.  Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle:  … Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.
 
Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew.  In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Professional Qualifications
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area
 
Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Industry
Oil & Energy
_______
 
Kyle Kingman’s Summary

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:
 
Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[snoopy]

O/T

Janet   Snoopy seems to be doing fine.  Thanks for asking.  Only problem is that he likes it better at our daughters house so we are considering letting him stay there.  Hubby is not so happy about this though.  lol

Funny thing about that whole star thing.......last week out in the middle of the ocean somewhere around Puerto Rico I started to see a similar occurance in the sky and I said..........Whoa snoopy don't go there. come back.....come back. lol

[texasmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.140

oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 224



   Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #149 on: February 25, 2008, 09:02:42 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion...

If God wills it... Natalee's remains will be found in the manner and timing that God wills it to happen.  Mark my words. That timing will be divinely perfect. From my experience, this generally happens in a manner that defies logic, is beyond chance, and confounds the ways of the wise with the actions of the weak. After it's complete, anyone who looks at the details will be left with no other explanation that there is a loving, caring, omniscient God behind it all.  By the works one knows the worksman.

During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step.  By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement.
2) Stay the course.  His course.  I believe if we overcome these challenges, we will be successful by God's view of success.  Hopefully in this case, His view of success overlaps with ours.  We'll see.
  

[Tamikosmom]

Hi texasmom.

An original source would be appreciated nevertheless.  Maybe Kermit can help tomorrow.

Janet

Edit typo

Hugs

Janet

[snoopy]

I just heard on the news about an 80 something year old man who got
frustrated because he couldn't get his DTV converter box to work and shot
his TV.
Neighbors heard the shot and called the police, who sent in a SWAT team.
The man surrendered peacefully to the police and nobody was hurt except
the TV.

 

 

[wreck]

I believe for the most part, Kyle did not start "lying" until this past Fall. He may not have told everything he knew early on -- but he didn't outright "lie" until lately. When he outright told us that there was "no mapping" going on (that they "didn't even have that kind of equipment") -- I knew something was HINKY!

[Magnolia]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.140

oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 224



   Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #149 on: February 25, 2008, 09:02:42 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion...

If God wills it... Natalee's remains will be found in the manner and timing that God wills it to happen.  Mark my words. That timing will be divinely perfect. From my experience, this generally happens in a manner that defies logic, is beyond chance, and confounds the ways of the wise with the actions of the weak. After it's complete, anyone who looks at the details will be left with no other explanation that there is a loving, caring, omniscient God behind it all.  By the works one knows the worksman.

During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step.  By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement.
2) Stay the course.  His course.  I believe if we overcome these challenges, we will be successful by God's view of success.  Hopefully in this case, His view of success overlaps with ours.  We'll see.
  

Guilt?

[Lifesong]

This is maddening!

12/21/2007 – NEW
CapslockWizard’s post (Comment #14 – 5:30pm) on SM Front Page that Natalee is in a cemetery.;  NOTE:  This comment is posted on The Dana Prezter Show’s page for the 12/20/2007 broadcast that featured Jug Twitty. 

01/27/2008– NEW
On: January 27, 2008, 10:51:39 AM Caps posts:  "need to know 2 things Did Natalee travel somewhere before he come to Aruba and and the parents tree   Natalee is the doughter of  -----  and --------- etc.  I know that probably Dave Holloway has notting to do with this Case but the Twitty  Wat is twitty to natalee?


Dude! 
You freakin' commented on the page of the show on which Jug Twitty was interviewed! 
Are you serious??!!

(Sigh.) 

[wreck]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!!