Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #1 6/5/10 - 6/30/10

[canadianmonkey]

I still want to know more about Kyron's OTHER big brother!!  Who is he?  How much older is he?  Where does he live?  Why hasn't he been mentioned til this article?  Where was he the day Kyron went missing?

big brothers... plural  -------  them... plural

"He looks up to his big brothers and enjoys spending time with them.  They dance and rock out in the living room."

http://www.kxl.com/KYRON-HORMAN--Oregon-s-Largest-Search-Operation-Ev/7399304

I'm with you.  Why isn't he living with the family?  Why did they search the pasture where they ride horses?  He hasn't been mentioned anywhere.  However they haven't mentioned the little one either.

[pamomma]

very interesting Blink article, and a great interview by John Walsh.  Poor Kyron

I believe Blink has said adamantly that the brother was on boyscout camping trip that weekend and has been cleared because he was not in the area. 

Although I am also curious about "brothers" and whether it is a typo or there is another brother we are not hearing about

[Tracygirl]

Melisb you can't make sense of a situation that doesn't make sense in the first place. It fits with the step mom because we hear she is the last person to have seen him. If she did this then she left a big hole wide open, the teacher obviously didn't think he was at an appointment when he first went missing because she was said to suggest he may be in the bathroom. Plus, telling the teacher he was going to be missing a few hours due to an appointment leaves him right with her. 

If you consider a few other stories, Sandra Cantu was taken right from the front of her home pretty much, Lindsey was taken while walking home, Amber was taken while walking to school, Summer was taken while walking home from school with 2 siblings and in a crowd, Tori was taken while walking home etc....All of these children would be missed in a short period of time, it is the nature of it I think for a pedo. I think it adds to their excitement.

[Gizzie]

My cousin asked me the other day if I had read about a classmate saying that Kyron said "he was going to meet the electric man". I don't remember reading this although I very well could have missed it.

Does anyone know if it was here or if there's an article about it? TIA

[canadianmonkey]

My cousin asked me the other day if I had read about a classmate saying that Kyron said "he was going to meet the electric man". I don't remember reading this although I very well could have missed it.

Does anyone know if it was here or if there's an article about it? TIA

It's in the article about the seat mate or Kyron's best friend.  He said that he was going to see the science project...it was electric.

[canadianmonkey]

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."


http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

bump

[Wyks]

Some notes for our timeline..  
and some interesting info that I am revisiting. 

The actual search for Kyron didn't begin at 3:45p.  (it began about 50 minutes later than that).

It's been reported in the news that the stepmom, at the bus stop somewhere between 3:30 and 3:45p (both have been reported),

realized Kyron wasn't on the bus.. ran home (takes a few minutes), and called the school.

"She called Skyline, and the school secretary called 9-1-1."

"School secretary Susan Hall called 911 at 3:56 p.m."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_may_have_s.html

The stepmom then notified authorities.  Am thinking that she and the secretary were both dialing LE at about the same time.   

"About a half-hour passed before they pulled up to the school and the Horman home, about 2 1/2 miles from the school."  ("they" being LE.  And it likely took a few minutes once they got to each location for stepmom and secretary to explain the situation. 

From the above link:

"Among those responding were a sergeant, a police dog and about eight Portland officers."

"The official search for Kyron began at 4:33 p.m."

"Shortly after 5:30 p.m., school authorities alerted parents through an automated phone message."

"Sometime between 7 and 7:45 p.m., Staton personally called the FBI."  (Sheriff Dan Staton)

"The first search teams arrived at 8:09 p.m. The search-and-rescue coordinator, Deputy Mark Herron, arrived at 8:25 p.m."

~~

It's interesting to me how many different versions of all this there have been in the news.  Just makes me wonder why.  Sloppy media reporting comes to mind, as has been typical lately with the media in a good majority of these 'gone missing' cases.  Get info, runnnn with it, confirm later, info changes, report it correctly next time.  Sigh.

The article at the above link was written on June 12th and updated on the 13th.  This is well after all the initial confusion with various info come flying in and back out to us, the readers.  They've had time to gather actual info/facts and to confirm it as well.  Which is why I am taking quotes from this article. 

Also interesting to me is that the article also was written well after the initial reports of info received thru LE interviews with this and that person... including the various comments here and there, which resulted in confusion or seeming one's comments contradicting another. (ok, this person says... but wait, I thought the other one said... )  So the reporter at this link has had time to sift thru ALL that confusion... and comes up with this:

".... the second-grader vanished and was gone nearly seven hours before anyone noticed."  Well.. that kind of lets the air out of everything anyone said and brings us straight back to what we knew before.  No one noticed for seven, count them, seven hours.  Kind of says to me that LE may not be taking what others have said so very seriously. 

~~

As can be seen at the above link, 911 was alerted by the secretary.   

We've read in the news that:
stepmom "called 911"
stepmom "contacted authorities"

(anywhere from 3:30p to 4:00p, depending on which news outlet one is reading from, and if it was 1st, 2nd or 3rd report, etc).   

Some news reports seem to evade saying exactly that the stepmom called 911, but beat around the bush by using the word 'authorities'.  Some just say 911 and scurry on to the next point, while at the same time detail the secretary's call to 911, including her name etc. 

I really just initially skimmed over that info in the news, just registering the fact that 911 was called and that the stepmom had also put forth the effort in good time.  (unlike casey anthony)
 
It was when I read an 'unconfirmed report' online, at Kyron's facebook, and ok yes... in the rumor thread there... that I really sat up and started wondering about the whole 911 call, when/who etc, went back to the news articles and started digging for more info.

This is unconfirmed: (the 'she' the poster refers to is the stepmom)
Mark
"911 was called at 3:56 by the secretary at the school she didnt make the initial call till later on the non emergent line"
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125336750831264&topic=279#topic_top

Interesting.. Whether true or not, remains to be seen.  And yet.... *IF* true, could be why some news articles seem to squirm around using the word 911, but rather report instead that the stepmom "called authorities".  Still and all, the authorities were called, in some shape/fashion/form by the stepmom, in a timely manner, and that's good enough for me.  *IF* she did indeed call the non-emergency line, she may have thought because the secretary was calling 911, she didn't want to tie that line up with a second call???  But needed to be in touch with LE herself anyway.  I dunno.  Wish I knew where 'Mark' got that info.  We've seen in other cases where sometimes some rumors become facts, as time moves along. 

And I dunno why I'm nit-picking this so badly.  Maybe I'm trying to avoid bathing four dogs?  lol   

[Mudder]

Could it be that Kayne had some problems with the older boy, and demanded that he be removed from their home, and then SM decided if she couldn't have her son with her, then he wouldn't have his son either?

I'm like all the rest of the parents here, I so hope it was not a stranger abduction at school.

[Wyks]

I still want to know more about Kyron's OTHER big brother!!  Who is he?  How much older is he?  Where does he live?  Why hasn't he been mentioned til this article?  Where was he the day Kyron went missing?

big brothers... plural  -------  them... plural

"He looks up to his big brothers and enjoys spending time with them.  They dance and rock out in the living room."

http://www.kxl.com/KYRON-HORMAN--Oregon-s-Largest-Search-Operation-Ev/7399304

I'm with you.  Why isn't he living with the family?  Why did they search the pasture where they ride horses?  He hasn't been mentioned anywhere.  However they haven't mentioned the little one either.

Yep, have read the little info we've received on Kyron's 16 yr old big brother, and do have questions about him, as do others.  And understand that he was away on a scout campout with his dad. 

This article says there are TWO big brothers.  Not just one, the 16 yr old.  My questions above refer to the mysterious second big brother not mentioned anywhere else.  At first I thought.... typo.  But it continues the line of thought and says that Kyron likes to spend time with them. 

[Gizzie]

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."


http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

bump

Thank you!!

[Wyks]

I have a really hard time thinking it's the SM.  There was an article about Kyron's seat mate saying that he saw the SM leave without Kyron.  Kids don't lie about things like that.

I keep remembering how adamant everyone was that the lady on the video walking away with Tori was Tori's mom.  I think it really hurt the tips coming in. 

I hope we will all find out what happened to Kyron soon. 

I agree, kids don't lie about stuff like that.  If anything, we can learn the most from the kids in class, because (as other monkeys have pointed out) kids don't have an agenda.  Have no reason to be attempting to cover for anyone.  They typically blurt out the truth.  It's the adults in their lives who may then try to coverup what the child said. 

Kyron's seatmate is Tanner, he's the one who first alerted the teacher that Kyron wasn't there.  LE, on discovering this info, tried to get Tanner to hush, in public.  It was Tanner's gma who (seemingly) went against that, and (seemingly) encouraged Tanner to tell what he knows, to the media.  IMO, if that's how it all went down... kudos to the gma for wanting the truth to be known by all!  And scary to think what other info Tanner and/or Kyron's other classmates may have, may want to say, who may also have been told by LE/FBI/school authorities/parents (?) to hush, don't tell.... at least yet publically... (yet.... or never?)  Sigh.  Guess WE don't need to know this (right now anyway), but LE/FBI sure does need to know it all.  IMO. 

[Tracygirl]

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."


http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

bump

So doesn't this imply that he was heading back to the fair or was at the fair? I wish I knew what time this was at.
also, when the "sub" teacher(which by the way I am thinking the boy meant the helper) said, oh no there are only 5, I think that means she at one time had 6 or why would she say only 5. That is when the teacher said to the sub well maybe he went to the bathroom or got a drink as if he was lagging behind? The school is refusing to say when they marked him absent because I think it was after they returned from viewing the fair. I bet the teacher didn't do role at 9 as she should have. It makes sense if LE has told them to not say anything because they don't want this story in its entirety to be told just yet.

[pamomma]

This is unconfirmed: (the 'she' the poster refers to is the stepmom)
Mark
"911 was called at 3:56 by the secretary at the school she didnt make the initial call till later on the non emergent line"
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=125336750831264&topic=279#topic_top

Interesting.. Whether true or not, remains to be seen.  And yet.... *IF* true, could be why some news articles seem to squirm around using the word 911, but rather report instead that the stepmom "called authorities".  Still and all, the authorities were called, in some shape/fashion/form by the stepmom, in a timely manner, and that's good enough for me.  *IF* she did indeed call the non-emergency line, she may have thought because the secretary was calling 911, she didn't want to tie that line up with a second call???  But needed to be in touch with LE herself anyway.  I dunno.  Wish I knew where 'Mark' got that info.  We've seen in other cases where sometimes some rumors become facts, as time moves along. 

And I dunno why I'm nit-picking this so badly.  Maybe I'm trying to avoid bathing four dogs?  lol   

We live in a town about the same size as Kyron's, same number of kids in the school too.  If we call 911 it goes to a center in a larger city near us, who then alerts local police.  I know the number for our local police and know many of the officers.  So I don't think her calling the non-emergency line is that odd...if she called 911 she would have to explain the entire situation to the operator, and then that person would explain the situation to police. Maybe the 911 operator wouldn't realize how out of character this is and how alarming it is b/c they don't know Terri or Kyron, but if she called the police dept and speak to a local officer, who she probably does know and who may know Kyron, she may get a faster and more alarmed response.....not saying this is what DID happen or what I would have done....but I can see scenario happening.  In town like that (and mine) people seem to know people, I went to high school with one of our officers and could possibly seeing myself calling him rather than 911 simply b/c he would understand this is a BIG DEAL that requires IMMEDIATE ATTENTION, b/c he knows me and my children.

[Wyks]

You're right Sunshine I just needed someone to remind me to weigh all options.  It just stuck in my head about SM and Kyron leaving school toghether in the early news article and then never being mentioned again.  I try not to believe things in print unless straight from LE or really credible sources.  But that's how things stick in your head.  I'll try not to be so one track and open my closed mind.  Thanks!

yea i am having the same issue with this case because i just can't get over how this perpetrator literally had the "perfect storm" occur so that Kyron wasn't reported missing until 3:45 pm.  it baffles me and i can't logically wrap my head around it but i'm trying to...

exactly..and what is LE saying to relieve parents fears that there is not a predator in their midst? none that I have heard...sooooo...do they have an idea of who took Kyron?
did the mom's phone pings go off around the lake that they were searching? someone said that it takes 10 days to get the phone records, but in a case like this, couldn't they get them sooner?? something led them to that lake...

LE has said that this is an 'isolated' case.  Which is in a way, IMO, trying to help tone down any fear the general public/parents may have.  That does make it sound like LE knows exactly what happened with Kyron, doesn't it?  Guess if they do, they can't come right and say that yet.  It just leaves my head spinning when they give info yet it isn't detailed enough to be really saying something concrete. 

Then so many wonder why some folks online speculate, trying to figure out what's really being said by LE... or not.  <shakes head>
 

[Wyks]

Could it be that Kayne had some problems with the older boy, and demanded that he be removed from their home, and then SM decided if she couldn't have her son with her, then he wouldn't have his son either?

I'm like all the rest of the parents here, I so hope it was not a stranger abduction at school.

Hmmmm... interesting, Mudder!  Hadn't thought about it like that, but gosh, that's another possibility. 

Yeah, am thinking if this were a 'stranger abduction', Kyron would likely have screamed, struggled, set up a ruckus, if possible. 

[Tracygirl]

Interesting fact. A person is no longer a stranger to a child once  they know their name, or they have seen them before or if a relative or friend knows them. 

An isolated incident...That is puzzling. I know one day that statement will make sense. hmmm. I don't know..not sure what that would mean unless they have the person in custody or someone has confessed, how do they know it was isolated? What type of crime is isolated? An accident of some kind?  But what kind of accident would happen at a school during a science fair? What other crimes are isolated? 

[Wyks]

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.' I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

As the search for Kyron enters its sixth day, Tanner said his friend's disappearance is all he can think about.

"I'm feeling really sad. For the last five days, I haven't gotten much sleep," he said. "I'm hoping that my best friend will come back."


http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

bump

So doesn't this imply that he was heading back to the fair or was at the fair? I wish I knew what time this was at.
also, when the "sub" teacher(which by the way I am thinking the boy meant the helper) said, oh no there are only 5, I think that means she at one time had 6 or why would she say only 5. That is when the teacher said to the sub well maybe he went to the bathroom or got a drink as if he was lagging behind? The school is refusing to say when they marked him absent because I think it was after they returned from viewing the fair. I bet the teacher didn't do role at 9 as she should have. It makes sense if LE has told them to not say anything because they don't want this story in its entirety to be told just yet.

The way Tanner words what he said does make it seem that Kyron was part of another small group, not the one he was in, who was likely on the way back into their own classroom, when Tanner saw and spoke with him.  ??  Sounds like Kyron wanted to go to wherever the electric project was, maybe real quick, before coming fully into the classroom and sitting down.  ??  And then a bit later Tanner realizes he didn't come back. 

So I agree with ya.  It does seem to imply he was heading back to where the science projects were.  And it's frustrating that the school won't say the time that roll was actually taken.  It's as if perhaps roll hadn't been taken at all that day, even tho they do say it was.  What's so hard about saying when?  Did teacher even take an informal head count early on?  I kinda doubt it.  At any rate, the whole roll call thing would pinpoint exactly when the school officially realized Kyron was not there.  Wish we knew who is not releasing that info to the public, the school or LE.... If the school, then it sounds like a liability issue, which perhaps the school just doesn't want to face quite yet.  If LE, then it sounds like the public knowing could jeopardize their case.  And maybe it's a mixture of both. 
     
Bet Tanner has quite a bit more to say. 

[Tracygirl]

Found this that may explain isolated incident....
Snipped:
http://www.calea.org/Online/newsletter/No75/crime_analysis.htm

Simply put, crime analysis is the study of crime patterns and trends.  Most crime is made up of random, unpredictable, unconnected incidents.  A man seizes the opportunity to steal a laptop left unattended.  An argument in a bar erupts into a fight.  A man is killed in a drug deal gone awry.  A date rape.  Some bullies steal a classmate's hat on the playground.  A bored housewife shoplifts a pair of earrings.  A feud between neighbors leads to a rock thrown through a bedroom window.  These crimes are usually isolated incidents that can be handled with traditional police response, investigation, and court proceedings.

Crime analysts look for crimes that are not part of isolated incidents.  We look for the gas station robber who holds up a different clerk every Friday night; the rapist who stalks women in parks in the eastern half of the city; the pigeon-drop con artist; the repeat auto thief; the group of kids who smash car windows every weekend; the purse snatcher; the domestic violence "hot spot"; the serial killer.  Our job is to identify these patterns and trends and inform the patrol officers, the investigators, and, in many cases, the public.  Based on the information at hand, we try to predict where and when the criminal is going to strike again.  Finally, we work with other members of the department, other city agencies, and the public to develop strategies to eradicate problems.

So I suppose since there hasn't been other reported children missing from schools then it is isolated? That is what I gather anyway. How do they know it is not the first in a series of incidents?

[Wyks]

We live in a town about the same size as Kyron's, same number of kids in the school too.  If we call 911 it goes to a center in a larger city near us, who then alerts local police.  I know the number for our local police and know many of the officers.  So I don't think her calling the non-emergency line is that odd...if she called 911 she would have to explain the entire situation to the operator, and then that person would explain the situation to police. Maybe the 911 operator wouldn't realize how out of character this is and how alarming it is b/c they don't know Terri or Kyron, but if she called the police dept and speak to a local officer, who she probably does know and who may know Kyron, she may get a faster and more alarmed response.....not saying this is what DID happen or what I would have done....but I can see scenario happening.  In town like that (and mine) people seem to know people, I went to high school with one of our officers and could possibly seeing myself calling him rather than 911 simply b/c he would understand this is a BIG DEAL that requires IMMEDIATE ATTENTION, b/c he knows me and my children.

Points well made and taken, pamomma, thanks!  Sure makes sense, that it does.  Put me in mind of our LE too, the closest would take at least a good 30 min to get here, unless there was a cruiser floating around somewhere.  We are so rural we get a cruiser that circles our (less than ten) roads once a week or so, and waves at folks outside.  Knew immediately there was a change in our village the day after we had put up a fence for our dogs.  Stopped to admire it, suggesting that with huskies it could have been a foot or two higher.  lol  Anyway, for all the reasons you gave, pamomma, calling the non-emergency number does make a lot of sense. 

[Wyks]

Interesting fact. A person is no longer a stranger to a child once  they know their name, or they have seen them before or if a relative or friend knows them. 

An isolated incident...That is puzzling. I know one day that statement will make sense. hmmm. I don't know..not sure what that would mean unless they have the person in custody or someone has confessed, how do they know it was isolated? What type of crime is isolated? An accident of some kind?  But what kind of accident would happen at a school during a science fair? What other crimes are isolated? 

Only 'accident' at school I can think of atm, is if Kyron found the 'electric' project, touched it, and got good and zapped.  ???  Dunno.