Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08

[texasmom]

Does that headline say Joran has manboobs?  (tatas)

No it says he has TaTa's.

 

[Magnolia]

Hi CAPS... I see you have dropped in.  Is there anymore news out of Aruba today.

 

Search for Saturday...

on one note about Hidden in plain view, and I spend a lot of time thinking when I started shango and when the pond was discoverd, it is in a sense hidden but it is also in plain view depend where you are looking at

When I break the news to klassend about the pond, I contacted David but it took almost 2 month to get an reaction. and lost alot of opportunity to react and at the same time Peter was saying that the case was solved.

another thing, form good source, the case will re-open, Fredy Data in the pipeline.

I jave been working on several peaces of the puzzel and maybe by friday I will a definitiv where did they go after C&C

one we got that , alot will fall in places. The two posibilities are both plausable Matty and Home, looking at it 50 - 50 one has to add an AND conditiion about the movie.

now Movie at the sloot plausable, Movie at Matty Plausable.

Now we at another AND condition and that is "Now we have a dead body" and both are plausable.

then came the desposal of the body and here is where thing can change

if They burried in the Back of the house than there was not a need to go to the pond and loose a shoe and where a withness saw you at 4.05 from his windows.

if they burried in the pond, and who ever drove you there to help him drop the body ir hid it, left joran alone there and could not get back home since he lost a shoe (only in mud you can loose a sneaker) his cloths got dirty and wet.

at exiting from the pond he could not find the return home car since it did split and since the driver did not wanted to be seen by the guards waiting for the perp.

By leaving him alone, he had no other choice to seek for his father but his father was looking for him on the main street but Joran was on the secondary road. The splitting coused him to be alone and running towards Mc donalds.

If the car did not split, they could have droven him back home and then they could have gone away with the story of dumping in the ocean.

all is documented.....

The pond is very near to the Matty Apartments

[texasmom]

Thanks for the update Caps!  And thank you for all you're doing! 

[texasmom]

[Magnolia]

Ithink the headline says:
Joran and his father, Paul, apparently conspired together.

That is as far as I got.

[Rob]

Does that headline say Joran has manboobs?  (tatas)

Joran and his FATHER (tata) Paul appear to conspire.

[SS]

I know this is gruesome but this whole case turns your stomach so I am going to put this out there (I think it has been before) Natalee may be in two different places.  Land and Sea. 

Everything is so cryptic that as soon as I think I have something figured out, I start thinking in a different direction.  Anyone else feel that way?

 

Who's to say that Natalee wasn't placed in the crypt and then removed and put out to sea weeks, days, months later?

I think that maybe on the 6th of June, Jalitza Wever was put in the trap with the
shoe and Natalee was put in her crypt.

Magnolia (and San!) - I am in agreement that this is the only scenario that seems to make sense.  Remember too, that Kyle said the trap found by TES was not the same trap that the fisherman reported as missing.  The trap in the ocean was a larger commercial size.  This means that the trap that was missing from the the huts probably has nothing to do with Natalee's case.  As Kyle's post indicates ... the door to the huts could have been kicked in by the police.  If that was Natalee's skull in the trap, they would have needed a very large boat to put the trap in that location.  Perhaps the large trap was already there as a drug "post office" and a diver took Natalee's body down to an already existing trap.  It could also be Jalitza's skull that was found.  I somehow think that the pond, crypt, and trap are all connected.

[SS]

Jalitza's funeral was not until June 6th.
Where did they hide the cage until they put it in the ocean?
Did they leave Natalee in the pond until then?

LOL... Magnolia... I think you hit it while ago when you said on June 6th they switched and put Natalee in the crypt and Jalitza in the cage.  The cage could be hidden and they probably left Natalee in the pond until then. 

 

I don't think the trap that TES found is the same trap that was missing from the huts.  The fishermen's trap was much smaller - about the size of a king sized bed.  The trap in the ocean was described by Kyle as being a large commercial trap.

[SS]

Monkeys, I have theory.  It's just speculation, but it does tie everything together.

As we have been told by our wonderful friend, Natalee probably died at the Matty Apts.  Urine and the Alpoe brothers put her in the trunk of Deepaks car.  They may have first explored the possibility of hiding her body near the Raquet Club.  They were seen by several people, so they drove her to the Sloot house instead.  At this point, Paulass called his friends DTKM and Voking.  They put the body in the bathtub to wash off all evidence of DNA and semen that could have been left by Urine and the party-goers. This is when Val saw the body in the tub.  Urine changed his clothes to a T-shirt because he knew he had work to do in the pond. They then got back into the three cars that were described to us.  The Alpoes went home to clean their car.  Urine, DTKM, and the body went back to the pond.  Urine put Natatlee in the pond, DTKM left, and Paulass drove in to pick Urine up.  This is when they were seem by the witness.  Paulass then drove Urine to Lorenzo's house, because this is where an alaibi was extablished that the party-goers where there for a party all night.  Urine was told to be at school the next day and he got the bus near Lorenzo's house.

[SS]

Sorry, I hit the wrong key before my diatribe was finished...

     Beth showed up the next day, much to Paulass's shock because the next plane wasn't due until Thursday.  Voking didn't take a few weeks off to be supportive of his friend, he was placed on unofficial leave because he couldn't be at the police station when the suspects were questioned.  The suspects all knew that he was part of the disposal.
     Once Beth arrived with the media, the higher powers decided that they had to do a better job than the pond because ponds could be searched and she might come to the surface after a few days.  They might have tried to moved her to the dump at this time, but once again they were seen.  The dogs did hit on something at the dump under the blue kiddie pool.  Jalitza Wever happened to die and this became an opportunity to hide Natalee in the crypt.  Natalee was moved again to the crypt and Jalitza with one of Urine's shoes was placed in the already established lobster trap that had been used as a drug "post office".  The lobster trap that was found was a commerical one and probably not the same one from the huts.  The witness said that Urine was missing a right shoe.  Was the bloody shoe in the closet a right shoe or a left shoe?  The left shoe with the blood could be the one in the trap days later, because it was probably put there with the clothes that were also found at Lorenzo's house.  It's also possible that Natalee's skull was in the trap and her body in the crypt. Is it possible that a decomposing body would start to fall apart after being in a pond and moved several times?   From the TES pictures of the trap there does appear to be a skull and a shoe, but it doesn't look like there were other skeletal remains.

[SS]

Also...

The search of the Sloot home was stopped because the higher powers knew that there would be blood and DNA in the bathtub drains from where they had tried to clean up Natalee's body.  This could be why only Urine's apartment was searched.

[SS]

The next day, Rufo Solognier was assigned cleanup at the Matty Apts., because as a former police chief he would have known how to get rid of any DNA and evidence.

[SS]

Urine could have been on the computer with the Alpoes, setting up an alibi, while Paulass, DTKM, and Voking were cleaning the DNA evidence off of Natalee in the tub.

[finngirl]

SandraK can't string two words together without making a mistake.
She doesn't have enough sense to make the Shango or Simian posts.

LOL...But I am trying to work out if she has found out recently who Shango is.

Maybe she and a friend of hers has known for some time who it was. 

there are/were multiple sandraK(s)

some can't type/can't spell/can't punctuate ...
some are polished writers

there were multiple bondia(s) ... 4 or 5 ...
and that sharing was sanctioned/known

there were at least two posting as Peeps
(Maxito Arendsz' bff)

there were at least two posting as ShocktheMonkey

I guess all the cool kids do it 

[SS]

     The bloody mattress that was found with GVCs uniform shirt could have been dumped after Rufo Solognier cleaned up the Matty Apts.  Was the mattress the same size as the beds in the Matty Apts.?  Was GVC one of the party-goers who could have left his shirt at the crime scene when everyone scattered when Natalee's died?

     With the long list of party-goers and poker players who were supposed to have been there that night, I just can't see the video party being held at the Sloot house.  I can see Natalee's body being brought back there, because Urine and the Alpoes were scared and didn't know what to do with her.  Urine wouldn't have called DTKM and Voking on his own, but Paulass certainly would have.

[SS]

     For some reason, these posts keep posting before I am finished and have a chance to edit my typing errors.... it's frustrating and I don't know why it's happening.

     Once DTKM realized that Beth had arrived and was starting to cause problems, Renfro was assigned to befriend her and sabotage everything that Beth was trying to learn about Natalee's demise.  It was reported that Renfro was one of the party-goers, so she had a vested interest in making certain that Beth was distracted.  The coverup of the coverup was in full operation as soon as Beth set foot on Aruba.

     The story about the beach was actually a second alibi that was created after Beth arrived.  It was established to take all attention away from the Matty Apts., the Sloot house, and Lorenzo's house.  Urine and the Alpoes could have been in old clothes when Beth first saw them, because they could have been helping Rufo Solgnier get rid of the evidence from the Matty Apts.  Urine and the Alpoes could have been the ones driving the white truck around to get rid of the mattress and anything else from the Apts.  The white pickup reportedly had ALE license plates. 

     The broken door at the huts may have been from the police, as Kyle suggested.  The trap may or may not have disappeared that night.  It could have been taken by ALE or Urine and the Alpoes the next night to help establish the beach story.  The trap with the skull and the shoe is not the same trap that was described by the fishermen.

[MumInOhio]

Mum

Robert, on the front page, explained the Dutch "naming" order.  I think he said the fourth name, before the surname, is the godfather.  Made me think that Joran perhaps was not baptized because I never saw a fourth name.  Maybe there is no "official" godfather. 

Found this, by Ramm, regarding Paulus's names:

most likely his godmother is named Johanna and his godfather is named Petrus. The first name is the name the parents choose, the second name is the name of the family member he is named after and the third and fourth name are often the names of the godparents of the child.

Buckeye…Thanks…this is exactly what I was looking for! 

One more …The Gardener…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2951.msg392413#msg392413


Quote Johan’s post

Wood began chatting up photographers, stringers, and reporters. The most intriguing lead, he decided, was a rumor that one of the Kalpoe brothers had confessed to killing Natalee—sort of—to a fellow prisoner while in the Aruban jail. The prisoner had heard that a relative's gardener, named Cumpa, had seen Joran and the Kalpoes burying Natalee's body in a vacant lot near the Marriott. When the Kalpoe brother was told the story, he supposedly went ashen and flipped over the dominoes they were playing with. Wood spent most of July tracking the elusive Cumpa. There were stories that he had fled to Venezuela, that he had disappeared, that he might have been killed.

The Mansur "investigative team," including Wood, Eduardo Mansur, and other Mansur employees and family friends, began holding nightly strategy sessions at the team's de facto headquarters: Hooters. One night they were inside poring over rumors when a Mansur cousin's teenage son suddenly blurted out, "I know Cumpa! He's my uncle's gardener!"

The boy hopped in Eduardo Mansur's truck and led Wood to a large seaside home owned by Jossy Mansur's cousin Eric Mansur, a wealthy importer. Wood found Cumpa, whose name turned out to be Carlos, in the yard. "He tells me that on that night, May 30, he couldn't sleep," Wood recalls. "It was 2:30 and it was so hot—he didn't have air-conditioning—he said, 'I got up, I told my wife I'm going to my boss's house,'" which was air-conditioned.


Any help on working out whom this teenager might have been would be appreciated…TIA

[MumInOhio]

bastibro isn't this a strange letter ?
it seems that Mos likes Renfro !! persconferentie in 2008 ??? lees maar eens goed !

Johan...Can you please give us a translation on the letter that is a good read?

Wondering where it came from as well?

TIA...

[MumInOhio]

SandraK can't string two words together without making a mistake.
She doesn't have enough sense to make the Shango or Simian posts.

LOL...But I am trying to work out if she has found out recently who Shango is.

Maybe she and a friend of hers has known for some time who it was. 

there are/were multiple sandraK(s)

some can't type/can't spell/can't punctuate ...
some are polished writers

there were multiple bondia(s) ... 4 or 5 ...
and that sharing was sanctioned/known

there were at least two posting as Peeps
(Maxito Arendsz' bff)

there were at least two posting as ShocktheMonkey

I guess all the cool kids do it 

Hmmm....Very Interesting....Thanks Finngirl

[johan555]

it is not easy to get news from Bonaire
they have a online news paper 

http://bonairereporter.com/
 
000054  people have visited this site since  January 1, 2006  > LOL