Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/candleman2justice2007.jpg)

To my monkey friends :

Today I wish you a day of ordinary miracles ~
 
A fresh pot of coffee you didn't make yourself.
An unexpected phone call from an old friend.  
Green stoplights on your way to work.
The fastest line at the grocery store.
A good sing-along song on the radio.
Your keys found right where you left them.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

I guess we need to write The Times.  A bunch of lies are here again, from Renho even.......

In Holloway case, Aruba also suffers
Two years after the U.S. woman disappeared, islanders say the accusatory free-for-all was an end of innocence for them.
By Carol J. Williams, Times Staff Writer
June 4, 2007
 
ORANJESTAD, ARUBA — A siren blares and whistle-blowing waiters race in to the hectic beat of the "Mexican Hat Dance." It's time for the hourly tequila attack at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

The target is an already inebriated blond with seven gal pals, a sunset-colored rum drink and a sunburned nose. The waiters crown her with a giant sombrero, toss a serape over her bare shoulders and pour a stream of golden liquid into a mouth turned up like a baby bird's.

Liquor-plying mission accomplished, a DJ swaps the peppy Mexican melody for a blaring rendition of dance group T-Spoon's "Sex on the Beach."

Alcoholic excess and abandon are back in vogue at the cantina, where a pretty blond teenager from Alabama named Natalee Holloway was last seen by her high school classmates — drunk and supine on the bar as a boy slurped Jello shots from her navel.

Two years later, it may be business as usual at Carlos 'n Charlie's, but the mystery of the missing American girl lingers. No body has been found, no evidence of a crime has been uncovered, and the 18-year-old's disappearance is dangerously close to being labeled a cold case.

The sad trajectory of the case mirrors that of the increasingly bitter relations between Holloway's parents and the people of Aruba, arcing downward from the moment two years ago when islanders took the tragedy to heart and joined in the hunt by the thousands to today, when locals mutter about American media distortions and "missing white woman syndrome."

Holloway's parents — and the cable TV crime analysts who followed their plight for months — have cast affluent Aruba as a dangerous den of iniquity, its police force as inept bunglers and its government and people as co-conspirators in covering up what happened to the hearty-partying teen.

As in the cases of slain child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, missing congressional staffer Chandra Levy and murdered expectant mother Laci Peterson, the ill fate presumed to have befallen Holloway made her a cause celebre for vigilante justice-seekers and a ratings boon for cable TV crime mavens.

Although they have recovered from the initial economic fallout, Arubans say the accusatory free-for-all was a blast-force end of innocence — danger could indeed lurk under wind-sculpted divi-divi trees or on sugar-white beaches. Yes, it was a blow to their livelihoods, as U.S. visits fell 7% last year. More painful, though, it was a wound to the heart for all who had joined the prayer vigils and searches, Arubans such as restaurant manager Edwin Trimon say.

"Last year was a tragedy for us. Many people's businesses were ruined. But what hurt the most was what they were saying about us on TV," said Trimon, a fixture in the Aruban tourism industry "since there was just one hotel on the island."

Marcelino Maduro, who has had a taxi service for 17 years, angrily defends his island nation. "The truth is, Aruba is safe. We don't have people begging. There's no bad neighborhood where a tourist feels he could be in trouble. We were all shocked when whatever happened to this girl happened."

In the first days after Holloway went missing, hundreds of tourists joined Aruban police and U.S. private investigators in combing the island's beaches, coral outcroppings and cactus-studded fields. The Aruba government gave thousands of civil servants a day off to join the hunt. A pond was drained near the Marriott, where Holloway was reported to have gone after she left Carlos 'n Charlie's with three locals. North shore sand dunes were scoured. F-16s flew in from the Netherlands to infrared-scan the entire island for signs of freshly turned earth.

No trace of Natalee Holloway was found. Now, the period defined by Dutch jurisprudence for bringing suspects to trial is about to expire.

Under Dutch law, prosecutors can designate suspects for arrest and interrogation without probable cause but must bring a case against them within "a reasonable time," which judicial precedent has defined as about two years unless fresh leads justify extension.

It was on June 9, 2005, 10 days after Holloway's disappearance, that Aruba police arrested 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot, a Dutch citizen, and Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were respectively 18 and 21 at the time. They were released that September after a magistrate who had granted numerous extensions ruled that police had insufficient grounds to further detain them.

"I hope we can close the case against them," said attorney David Kock, who represents the Kalpoe brothers. "They have been living with this sword over their heads for two years now."

Vivian van der Biezen, head of legal and policy assistance for the Aruba prosecutor's office, says that authorities are prohibited from discussing an active case and that a new phase of the investigation began six weeks ago.

On the recommendation of officials in the Netherlands who reviewed Aruban and FBI reports, Van der Sloot's home was searched again April 27. Twenty forensic investigators perused his parents' diary notes and a personal computer and poked narrow rods into soil in the backyard of their modest home.

Paul van der Sloot, the suspect's father, said they found nothing suspicious.

Van der Biezen said she was confident the magistrate on the sister island of Curacao, where the case has been relocated, would give the prosecution more time given the high visibility and complexity of the Holloway case. But she acknowledged that the clock was ticking and, at best, they had a few more months to find a body or forensic evidence that a crime had been committed.


"There will come a time when we have to make a decision to prosecute or make it a cold case," she said.

Like many Arubans who understood the anguish of the missing girl's parents, Van der Biezen is reluctant to accuse them of interfering in the investigation. But she observed that their freelance actions in confronting witnesses and suspects blew early opportunities for clandestine surveillance.

In one of her frequent appearances on Greta van Susteren's "On the Record" legal show on Fox News, Beth Twitty, Holloway's mother, complained that the parallel inquiry that family members and friends conducted was being ignored by Aruban investigators.

"We've just about done all the investigation for them, I guess, so to speak — identified witnesses, put the three suspects on a silver platter and gave it to them," Twitty said of the sleuthing she did when Aruban police were still convinced her daughter had simply extended her vacation.

Recriminations are a two-way street here on Aruba.

Julia Renfro, a Los Angeles native who is editor in chief of Aruba Today, initially took the side of Holloway's parents when they sought publicity on the disappearance and lambasted Aruban police for following Dutch investigative procedures rather than those in the United States.

Galvanized by compassion for a desperate mother, Renfro stopped the presses of her daily newspaper for the first time in its history to include a picture of Holloway to aid Arubans in the island-wide search.

A mother of four, Renfro spent weeks shuttling the family from the scene of one rumored development to another but eventually became disenchanted with what she saw as Twitty's pandering to tabloid TV and "flat-out lies" she told on the air.

"I feel guilty saying any negative thing about a mother who has lost her daughter," Renfro said. "But her behavior was odd from the get-go."

Renfro has concluded that the body would have turned up by now if Holloway died on the island. She — and many Arubans — doubts the three suspects, who were all good students without criminal records, could have pulled off a perfect crime, leaving no forensic evidence behind and never caving in to the intense pressure of interrogations.

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

Heavily intoxicated, according to accounts later given by her classmates to the FBI, Holloway could have staggered into the sea and drowned after the local men left her, Renfro speculates. She might have died of alcohol poisoning or a drug overdose and washed out to sea, as Deputy Police Chief Gerold Dompig surmised in a CBS interview last year. She might have climbed aboard one of the dozens of catamarans and cabin cruisers moored off the beach for late-night partying after a concert nearby.

Renfro says she was perplexed when Twitty immediately concluded that her daughter had been kidnapped and made no effort to check hospitals or police about accident victims. Within a few hours, Twitty had concluded Van der Sloot was responsible, and within a couple of days she was telling TV interviewers that she knew her daughter had been gang-raped and murdered.

Twitty didn't respond to e-mailed requests for an interview.

Renfro parted ways with Twitty and ceased front-page coverage of the disappearance after what she considered a malicious act of distortion. A video aired Sept. 15, 2005, on "Dr. Phil" appeared to show Deepak Kalpoe telling a California private investigator, Jamie Skeeters, that Holloway had sex with all three men on the night she disappeared.

The Kalpoe brothers sued talk-show host Phil McGraw, CBS and Skeeters (who died in January), alleging the clandestinely recorded jailhouse conversation was doctored heavily to change the elder Kalpoe's response from "No, she didn't" to "She did." Versions of the original and aired tapes available on YouTube and other websites appear to back Kalpoe's contention that his words were altered.

Although leads have faltered and investigators no longer seem to be focusing on the three named suspects, the case of the "missing white woman" promises to live on for years, at least in the legal TV and unsolved-mystery broadcasts.

what a way to start the day with Renfro exclaiming that she's spoken with all three 'boys' and they are innocent good boys? As compared to what, to whom? Who is your benchmark for we've heard about your relationships with some boys Julia.

I think she's the only person on Aruba who thinks all three are innocent and watch carefully Anita, if you piss Renfro off she will turn on you just as she did Beth. Old toast doesn't change it's spots  :wink:

OK... blood pressure is up and now off to work.. grrrr Renho is such a lying POS.

Was the other thread left to linger at 49 for eternity? lol

It is time to THOUGHT PRINT Renfro!!!!!!

That would cause spontaneous combustion.
We made it to Page 50 and you will have to go back over there to see what I answered you  :lol:  :lol:

Renfro:  “A mother of four, Renfro spent weeks shuttling the family from the scene of one rumored development to another but eventually became disenchanted with what she saw as Twitty's pandering to tabloid TV and "flat-out lies" she told on the air.”

Thought Print:  I’m a lying POS that thought this story was my shot at the big time, but Beth would not give me an exclusive.  I was always sure to take them in the opposite direction when ever Anita would tip me off.  Beth outed me on international television and blew my chances of becoming a media darling.

Tibro - I noticed you liked the rock with the penguins.

Did you know that's in my hometown? If you ever want to visit it, I have a nice guest room.  :D

Hi Easy. How's thongs this morning? Any new big mama photos to show us?  :lol:

Carol J. Williams, Times Staff Writer - That would be the LA Times. Here is the link to the story Hotshot posted.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-natalee4jun04,0,5429534.story?coll=la-home-center

I saw that and it is something else!  Can she sue those people after it is over?

BT thank you for the invitation.  A tour of the US would be wonderful. :lol:

Easy I just posted a local news article about Big Brother on page 50.  See if you think it is legitimate.

Looks like it is time for me to head to the monkey bunkey, as it is 11 pm.
Goodnight monkeys.  Will talk to you again tomorrow.

I would think the Big Brother mob would be experts in the art of CYA.

No reported Medley sightings this morning.

Ya know, for ages people have tried to discover ways to subtly dislodge renegade underwear from the crack without drawing too much attention.  Then along came the thong!  :shock:

"Good Night and Good Luck"  I watched that movie over the weekend. lol

Just checked the news out of Aruba and I think there were some car wrecks last night.   :shock:

Good Morning Monkeys!

Working and lurking as usual.

I read the Renfro article...Gosh I hate to get so mad first thing on a Monday morning.

What gets me is she has no qualms whatsoever to what she has done.  I just don't get it.  Well, I am glad I don't understand their motives, I'd hate to think like they do.

LA TImes -

Link to Readers Representative Office (referenced in the previous post):

http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-readersrep-cf,0,3057606.customform

Gives you an email template type thing.

My thought print on Julia Renfro, she is not worth the oxygen it would take for the simplest of brain to think about her and her thoughts ramble like the PIMPS of Aruba, from one sleezy gig to the next.  A woman well past her prime who seeks out and beds men and carries babies willingly by the next man willing to pour tequila down her throat after the serape has covered her face so these one-nighters are more palpable to the man now in tow, who  can say 'mission accomplished.'  Serape gone, baby in tow, a past filled with one-night stands, drugs and alcohol, now a hunger for power and money engulf her while her skin is tanned from too many days in the sun, too many nights on the prowl and too many men in the same belly, she has borne the desire for power and it cannot be attained through abilities or the inward nor outward beauty she has, so she must forge ahead with the tools at hand, a poison pen.

RU is having a field day with that article.

Good morning, Mrs. Marples, Kimmy.  I think Tibro, Easy and I continue from the night before. :lol:

Don't think for a second that the article showed up in the LA Times by accident.  It's also not about the HT case against the Kalpoes being dismissed.  It's about the Dr. Phil case.  Influence the minds of jurors who will feel sorry for the people of Aruba, poor working class people like yourselves, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, who are being brutalized by rich people like Beth and Phil.

Good Morning Tyler - I agree with you on Renfro, You always say things so well!!!

Julia Renfro can paint Aruba as a most affluent culture all she wants.  All one has to do is visit there to find what it is.  The people there other than her class live like the poorest areas of India.  I have seen Aruba.  It is very impoverished save for the few pockets of wealth.  It is very similar to what one would experience in Hollywood on a small scale, an area where the elitist live and the larger areas surrounding it where some of the most impoverished immigrants live.  Of course, Julia traded her USA life where she could not attain an affluency for one in the Caribbean where those who did not know her would accept her as one of the elitists.  She uses her poison pen to paint a happy island while her underlying demeanor exposes a heartless soul bend for hell.   Her lies are stagnant like the water of man-made beaches where people who came there to visit are murdered, and tossed into the water by the sharks like her friends, the VanderSloots.

Re:  Dr. Hodges

I'd like to hear his commentary about Joran's various interviews and stories to ALE.  This one bothers me in particular:  

Joran tells Chris Cuomo that Natalee tells them at C&C she wants to see sharks, so they head out to the Lighthouse.  Then they go to his house.  Chris asks him when the plan changed.  Joran verbally stumbles, doesn't quite know what led to the change in plans.  They go to his house, but don't go in, they go to the beach.  

Joran tells Greta that Natalee asks if he lives in a big house so they go there.  They get there and Natalee doesn't want to go in, she says she wants to see sharks.  So they go to the Marriott Beach.  

They're walking along the beach, towards Natalee's hotel, but Natalee wants to walk the other way, towards the Lighthouse.  

Natalee fell asleep on the beach, maybe went for a swim, drowned, etc. etc. etc.

The article concludes:

Although leads have faltered and investigators no longer seem to be focusing on the three named suspects, the case of the "missing white woman" promises to live on for years, at least in the legal TV and unsolved-mystery broadcasts.

I guess those recent visits to the Sloot and Kalpoe homes was focused on the neighbors. lol

I detest that "missing white woman" garbage!

L'il Puma, I think if I am not mistaken, that someone posted his thoughts on the sharks, indicating that Joran is the shark; he also unravels the claim about C&C not being much fun on a Sunday night.  He is warning them subconsciously to stay away because they will enounter trouble from "the sharks."  He is one of the sharks.

I had some thoughts on the unconscious meaning of the statements the trio made in the past thread.  I think we have all tried to read into it what was not said, but most telling is that he said "Natalee was never on the beach with them alone..."  There were always three of them but they left her "in the beach, in the water, in a container.."  Greta will not touch that.  Greta long ago allied with her friends at Court TV when she was told she was going in the wrong direction with Beth to maintain her alliance with them.  She opted to stay in the game rather than remain sane.

OMG tyler....i nearly spit my oj on the screen....this was priceless!!!!!

BINGO!

sorry to post and run...but i have to be at work in 10 minutes...thank goodness it only takes 5 minutes to get there :wink:
have a great day monks....don't let old renho get you down!!!!

I have my thoughts on the Lighthouse and it has to do with boats and carrying Natalee out to sea, but I will save that for later.

Jossy tells me that Chavez has mounted another attack against the DIARIO by forbidding the sale of the paper by street vendors.  But the DIARIO will not “…go gentle into that good night.”

That's an interesting thought and you should send it to the LA Times.

EVERYONE should sound off.

Why the heck was the interview with JR, who edits a typical tourist rag - whose livlihood depends on tourism?

If a media person was wanted, it should have been Jossy, whose paper is the most widely distributed among the Aruban people.

Should have inteviewed someone actually CONNECTED with the investigation.

Sorry, I'm not very articulate; no time right now. I will do a letter (or something) tonight.

Chavez?

Easy you should write the LA Times about the goings on with Diario and MEP.

Oops!  I'm bad this morning.  I meant Oduber and I was thinking about Chavez, because Oduber thinks he can use the same tactics in Aruba, but it ain't gonna fly.

I think I will write them a letter.  A counterpoint to the writer's obviously prejudicial treatment of the story.

msmarples I quite agree, Easy should write the LATimes and also detail Rudy Croes chest beating for revolt against Holland and request they give equal coverage to the political landscape as backdrop for their prospective jurors as well !

What was the name of the outfit that put this trip together two years ago?

I thought Dr. Hodges' credibility would have been increased had he talked more about the statements and interviews instead of focusing so much on one of Deepak's e-mails.  We've all analyzed what they've said but Dr. Hodges, with his training and experience with the human mind, picks up on things that we didn't.  I'd love to hear him discuss it and I'm glad Dana said he'll have him on again.  The whole Lighthouse issue has me baffled because I can't figure out why the Kalpoes insist they went there, while Joran says it didn't happen.  I can't fit the Lighthouse into any timeline we have unless they did NOT go to the Sloots or they took Natalee to the Lighthouse after the Sloots.  I don't know if I'd agree with the good doctor's conclusions, but hearing things he picks out of their writings and statements gives us more clues and food for thought.

- Do we have a link to an early article that says government employees were given the day off to search and about 400 showed up to do so?  

- Do we have a link to an article about demonstrations because chollers are bothering people?  Oh, I can find that on the FP.  

- Do we have a link to articles about poverty, maybe something about St. Nicholas?  

- Link to Murder and Crime thread.

- Article about recent search of VDS residence and look-see of Kalpoes.  

These discredit the LA article and Julie Renfroe.

My guess would be that he can get a clearer picture of Deepak's mind since this statement was made early on before the whites and blacks started becoming grayed in even in their own minds, for they know what happened, but a seasoned liar like Joran can convince himself that he is telling the truth.  It is easier to blur the lines when you are dealing with the ramblings of a pathological liar such as Joran, and I suppose had he been able to get his hands on (which he requested from Karin Jansen and Vin de Souza) the first statements by Joran, he might have been more inclined to use that; having said that, he did say that he did not want to give too much away because he and Dave are in agreement of places to search based on Joran's statements and he did not want to give up that information out of fear of spoiling what Tim has intention of doing although it appears Dave has been the go-between with Tim and Dr. Hodges.

Quick thought -  I notice the article played the "motherhood card" ... hummm. What was it about JR's children? A discussion not long ago?

Write   Write   Write!
carol.williams@latimes.com

Posted by Heli at RU:

Ok dokey there buttafly; Ms Williams can draw her own
conclusions and since Julia is noted as being originally from Los
Angeles, it could be that Ms Williams and Julia are friends  

I e-mailed Ms Williams as I said earlier and if she chooses to read the
transcripts of Beth Twitty with Robert Jensen as well as what Rep Bachus
had to say about the case, she will have further insight into the FACTS
in this case.

I'll bet Williams' inbox is jammed today

Klaas, did you lock that other thread?

 :lol:

I brought this over, an exchange between Easy and me....just wanted to know if others might want to opine on this.  Not sure, as I see we are all bent out of shape this morning about the boozing floozie from arubzie, none other than the French mongrel now removed from her days of bit parts in questionable moves in LA to less skanky position in Aruba.  Nonetheless, the leopard still has spots in addition to now being long in the teeth, hard on the wrinkles and tasteless in mindprint.

Tylergal wrote:
Did they take Satish home to provide an alibi while Joran "stayed with the girl" to ensure nobody came along and Deepak was off to render help from Paulus and his underworld thugs.


That makes sense. Joran stays at the beach with Natalee and the brothers go to get help, tools, or others to help. Where did the "came back with two dawgs" story come from?

If ALE can't deal with a bunch of out of control teens stalking tourist, then just what can they do about anything else?  Hell, a bunch of these guys are the sons of people in charge on the island.  What kind of chit is that?

Two dogs.  Could it be he is talking about two people or is he really talking about dogs.  

We have seen in postings from Fabiene (Joran's girlfriend) that she is infatuated with beastiality so do we know that these are not two canines?  Or not being familiar with their form of ghetto language in Aruba, is "dawgs" a code word for two Columbians.

DAYHIKER,

I totally agree with you.  I was impressed with this guy and many have said he did not say where she is now, blah, blah, blah, but he mentioned as you stated "they did not give FBI anything early on" and I emphasized that in capital letters when I transcribed it, also mentioned his full name and credentials, but moreover, what I noticed was that he concluded that he and Dave were in concert, that he and Tim were working for the same team and that he was "not going to say anymore in order not to give away..."  Are we asking this man tell all he knows so that we can sit here and whine that he did tell everything in order for the PIMPS and the slavemasters to be able to cover that up as well.

I think we want too much sometimes.  Dave, Beth, the FBI nor Dr. Hodges is not going to tell all for to do so is like giving a knife to your enemy to stab you in your face.  How foolish he would be to do so and not worthy of the letters he holds.

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/29184981.jpg)

I'm surprised they made it this long without being exposed.  If some of those tourists that got caught up in Joran's web of deceit had come forward, this might not have happened!

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!

Does anyone have the email address of the LA Times Ombudsman?  I don't think writing to the author of the article will do any good as she is not going to tattle on herself.  We need to do that for her.  

I see this as a deliberate attempt to get Aruban propaganda out there to sully the jury pool.

Is there any verification from the MB kids that Natalee was "supine on the bar" doing the now famous jelly shots?  I do not recall reading that from anybody except the suspects AND their attorney.

I have no problem with her doing that just want it verified by her friends and not just J2K's word for it.

.

Morning monkeys.  Only here for a little while.  Has anyone seen Grande this morning.  I have a question for him.  

Tylergal...my first question would be why does Joran say "two dogs" and then there is no follow up questions from ALE.  It's not that Joran is lying again.  It's the fact that ALE didn't even ask for clarification.  I do however realize that maybe they were trying to allow him to talk and talk until they could get him on something. Seems the more he talks it's only the monkeys that can see his web of lies unfolding.  

That Times article is just as one should expect from them.  Not only are they woefully uninformed, they, like ALE, didn't ask the follow up questions.  

I truly have almost given up hope...I really have...sorry to be so depressing this early in the day.

The more Nurse Ratchett speaks/writes, the more she exposes herself to investigation, perhaps not by those who would serve on a jury as we have seen in recent years in famous California trials, they are nothing but a long vacation of illiterates who are bestowed the title of "jurors" rather than jurors who are "trial by peers."  We have lost the jury in this country, particularly in California,  because we allow jurors who are the lowest common denominator of society, but those who would be consumers of Aruban travel will be able to see through this  and see through this shrew of a woman.

We PROVED that with the Murder and Crime Thread which has been viewed by over 27,000 hits.  One person even asked MsMarple if we had a GRANT to do that research, haha.

No grant, just determination and hard work by those who scan the papers daily for the reports of the rampant crime on One Happy.  No one is going to make me believe that just started after Natalee disappeared!  What a crock, innocence!  That is one of the least innocent places on earth with the Caribbean basin having the second highest crime rate in the world.

.

My guess would be ALE knew who/what he meant by two dogs.  Perhaps what we are seeing is for public consumption and does not even resemble the true statements which might be chucked away in someone's portfolio for safekeeping but we know these statements are meant to implicate the two illiterate Kalkpoes whose brain must be so microscopic they keep gouging for it but cannot find it, otherwise, they would have sunk Joran by now.

Julia Renfro is trying to put a good spin on a turd, implying that it can be picked from the clean side.  That turd is Aruba.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I agree.  Their problems did not just begin two years ago.  There has been a concerted effort to mask the real Aruba in order to attract tourist that might fear some of the other Caribbean destinations.  They goofed when they decided a cover-up was the way to go.

Easy, I trust you are going to send to LA Times that which you indicated you would.

Anna, could you and Mrs Marples kindly send them a link to the Crime thread?

I think Klaas has the time line of all the events which Li'l Puma was requesting.

It is my opinion that if you send too much, you will be ignored.  Why do I think this?  I have seen it occur too many times with newspapers and TV broadcast journalists.

Although I may disagree with Bill O'R on many things, agreeing to keep it short and pithy is best.  No one any longer pays staff to sit and read ramblings all day, particularly in this case which they see as affecting one  missing white  girl.  What these instant gratification newspapers fail to grasp, is that this is just one species of bacterium to which we are being exposed on a daily basis, stalking of women, rape and murder, drugging and deceit and when it happens by its most prominent citizens on a small island, it festers like a sore on the rear end of a lanky goose.

Well, Aruba can spin all it wants.  Once Deepak is on the witness stand and has to tell the truth he will crack.  He can't explain all the lies without slipping up.  There are way too many.  It doesn't matter what he tries to say, he will never be able to explain a few of his choice statements.

Anna....your quote as follows...

"Is there any verification from the MB kids that Natalee was "supine on the bar" doing the now famous jelly shots? I do not recall reading that from anybody except the suspects AND their attorney."

I have never read anything definitive about this from a person who could be trusted....and I can't imagine it happening....!

I did write the author of the article the following letter....

Good morning....I know that your mailbox will be filled with responses to your article as there are many who either do not agree with you or who feel that you are writing without full information.  I am not the one to judge, but I would like to link you to www.scaredmonkeys.net and to some of the material they have developed (or have provided from other sources) over the past two years.  If you have time, it may be an eye-opener.  
 
Thank you, Mere
 
Important Case Documents:  http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

I've seen it too and it is a waste of time.  Might help people feel better to vent, but it falls upon deaf ears, blind eyes, etc. and it won't get published by a paper like that.

I no longer have the posts from Charles Croes in this regard, Easy, but I hope someone has held onto them,  for he clearly indicates in March 2005, before Natalee Holloway was a household name that these shenanigans were being carried out and tourists were being stalked, even n the Aruban boards.  So, it would only take his own words from before Natalee to hang him on some of his more recent statements.  He goes from sounding like a concerned citizen to a gentle stalker.

Some of these so-called journalists just use the case of Natalee Holloway as a vehicle to express some problem they have with some portion of society.  They have no interest in facts that might detract from the purpose of their BS.  As soon as one of them starts in with the “missing white woman syndrome” they lose my respect, because it is clear they do not understand the intricacies of this particular case.  Nor do they understand why it is so compelling to so many people.

I would rather read more about the “lying Dutch boy syndrome” or the “lying woman with a vendetta syndrome.”

I just wanted to ask this before I go, has anyone heard from Peaches or Sunfreak in the last couple days?  I always look forward to Peaches' early morning posts and I missed her today and I miss Sunfreak.  I want to take a minute to say a prayer for them and get my laundry done as it has been calling me since early a.m.  We had the kids fresh in from Orange Beach and Seaside this weekend, and we met other relatives from other poarts and we all attended a baseball game.  Clothes and towels are piled up like car wrecks on Aruba, and it beckons me to clean it up.

i think the "came with 2 dogs"

might be translated incorrectly


could it have been

"came with 2 BITCHES"

who were the 2 BITCHES ????

ANITA and ????????????????????????????????


heheheeheheheheehheheeehh

LA is a big place.  Judging by the wrinkles and sun damage, I'd say Julia has been gone a long time.

To respond to the LA Times article that Hotshot posted on Page 1 of this thread --



Link to Readers Representative Office (referenced above):

http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-readersrep-cf,0,3057606.customform
Gives you an email template type thing.

Writer of the article:
carol.williams@latimes.com

I did a quick search - this Carol Williams seems to do a lot of stories out of Miami. Probably the Caribbean too.

DO WRITE!

Hi Tyler!  I'm trying to work and catch up at the same time.  

It's a beautiful day in GA.

Anyone have the U.N. link handy?

I believe it was Lee Ashford Broughton who said they were doing body shots.
It is in her 302

United Nations?

http://www.un.org/english/

Yeah, thanks!

I think it is pretty clear by now, by the lack of any sort of investigation, that the Dutch are in Aruba to shut down the case.

They are clearly there to review whatever files or evidence the ALE might have collected, make an appearance at the only 2 locations on the island not searched, and they will soon be declaring a cold case.

They have done absolutley nothign that resemebles an investigation, only a review of some sorts.  Once the ALE gets the Dutch "blessing", the case will be declared cold and it will all be over.

This much seems obvious to me.

klaasend,

You said earlier that you are pretty sure Simian posted on June 30th as Mano and again on July 1st as Baboon.  Do you have the content of those posts?  I only have the Simian and the doppleganger's posts.

Well, they are good at keeping quiet.

Things are quiet and hot and humid here. The Dutch team is still in Aruba. Their time has been extended for whatever purpose the have in mind. We call them 'the mute' investigators. They don't say anything, they don't contact anyone, and as far as we know, they haven't done anything visible in the recent past. I continue to wonder what they are up to, because I simply refuse to believe they just came to put on a show.

I hope your friend is right.  Maybe keeping quiet about what the investigators think will be a good thing.

(fingers crossed)

If they asked 1 single person any sort of question, we would know about it.  Everyone on that island knows everyone and the Dutch just would not be able to keep that quiet.

They have not questioned anyone, they have not searched the last place Natalee was seen alive, they have not searched any place that would obviously need to be searched (lighthouse area, apinted rocks, etc) They have not spoken to Beth, Dave, or anyone from Mt Brook, they have not searched the dump, the ocean, nothing.

They are doing nothing but firming up the ALE's case to declare this thing cold by reviewing the work they have done and putting a big closed stamp on it.

I hope Rudy Croes ticked off the right people back in Holland over the weekend and someone will decide to drop the hammer on the whole bunch!

Name: Baboon

The FBI was with a group in Aruba. Some left, some stayed.

There is no plea barganing in Aruba or the Dutch Kingdom. What they do is reduced sentences for the for the lesser crimes.

The case where the gentleman was “beheaded” was solved. The girl was picked up and she is awaiting for her charges and subsequent trial.

A case of a drive-by shooting was also solved and the involved have been arrested. Nobody was killed they just shot in the air. One is the son of really, really rich and influential people in Aruba. Not like Joran, which by Aruban standards is just the son of a judicial employee.

Some have to start coming to grips that maybe something else happened to the girl.

Posted Jul 1, 10:38 AM

Name: Baboon
Nurse:

Transporting Aruban marines? Would you mean Dutch Marines?

The US Coast Guard, FOL, Dutch Marines and the Aruban Coast Guard work together to counter drug-trafficking. Why would that be funny?

Posted Jul 1, 10:29 AM

Name: Mono

El Mono no hace predicciones. Solo pasa informacion. Chica Nueva, no pongas tus pantaletas en un nudo.

Posted Jun 30, 6:10 PM

Name: Mono

Claro que lo de tus pataletas era en broma. No hay vaqueros en la costa. Se dice que se estan acostando muy tempranos. Este cuenta va a tomar una vuelta inesperada muy pronto.

Posted Jun 30, 6:20 PM

Name: Mono

El Mono se canso. De impostores y de imitadores.

Posted Jun 30, 6:37 PM

I second your opinion.  That would be a huge help.  And it would be nice to think that ole Rudy was the one to do them all in!

I don't think a "case closed" stamp can be put on this even by Aruba.  It may be put in the archives, but it ain't closed.

Thanks Klaas!

Do you have like a big Mary Poppins bag where you keep everything we might need???

in Aruba, cold basically equals closed, especially in THIS case

anyhow, thats my prediction and I expect it will come true within the next couple weeks.

LOL - nope but I have ways of searching front page posts that you guys don't have, lol  :lol:

If so, Klass's bag is very well organized. She pops up with the stuff immediately. I would still be fumbling around with the Chips Ahoy crumbs at the bottom of my bag.

PS -- Just noticing that the Fox website is featuring a story about BHT and John Ramsey. Not too sensational. Just the facts.

Blah,
They may archive it but if they mark it officially closed, they have to release the files to the parents and for whatever evil reasons, they don't want to do that.  Anyone else on earth can get them but not the parents.

I doubt they do that OFFICIALLY but in actual fact, you may well be right that this is where this is going.  I hope and pray not but logically I can see it happening.  They just won't call it closed.  Inactive maybe but not closed so they can protect those files or at least scrub them squeaky clean.

.

 :D
klaas

The codetalker who said they corresponded with Simian (Rob and I posted about this the other day) also mentioned that Simian posted under several other nics.

The ones I remember offhand were:
MerrianErnest
Gordo

Do you know if there is any truth to that? Or are they all fakes?

(Or possibly you can't disclose -- which I would respect)

I'm still organizing all this 'stuff' we were told early on for my brain to process -- trying to get a handle on the extent of the misinformation campaign.

just because Arlene told us that, doesnt make it true.

Besides, there isnt anything in those "records" that is good enough to go to trial on.  

If the Dutch are really condcuting an investigation, they musty be looking into the alien theory because they sure are not conducting an investigation that invlolves the last known people to be seen with Natalee.

Why have they not at least attempted to question anyone?

The only names the "real" Simian posted under on the front page of SM were:

Simian
Baboon
Mono

I base this upon the email address used (the same for the names I listed) and the location of the IP (Aruba).

Excellent links! And even more effective than contacting the writer of the article.

That Bosch washer and dryer are taking care of the laundry and I am back, reading what everyone says with interest.  If what Blah states is true, then it must be the reason the presstitute was out this morning with her fantasy story to the LA Times.  

We have seen this from other corners before, denigrate the victim.  That is Julia Renfro's intention and as she keeps it up, she will become more transparent.  Her skin is thin and she fights like a cornered rat, and the Rats Unleased continue to support her, but to be honest, their rants are singing to the larger choir of rats.  

I believe in order to maintain any legitimacy, the Dutch have to do something on or before 6/9.  If not, then the case may be closed theoretically while they maintain it is still open.  I would hope if that is the case, the war between Aruba vis a vis Rudy Croes and the NL will continue full stride and though we may not be able to hand a conviction of these perps on a platter to Dave & Beth, our continued scrutinty of Rat Island can keep it on the front burner.  Our continued scrutiny of the NL can keep this fire roaring between them.

Incidentally, did you notice that Made's parents have gone to the NL where they believe resides of a nest of pedophiles protected under Dutch law, similiar to the amnesty Joran has been given.

I was out of town last week and weekend -- big heartfelt thanks to everyone who posted summaries from Kimberly, Peter, Dana and the newest ridiculous interview with the delicious sporter :twisted:

I remember after Joran did one of his interviews -- either Greta or Cuomo -- a document was released with results from a 'voice analyzer'??

I think I read the document on BFN when I used to post there (or maybe Michelle's site). I believe the analysis was requested by Dave Holloway?

Does anyone else remember this??? Very damning and damaging for the sporter (what a big surprise).

Is this the same guy as you have been discussing this morning??


Off to work, but....

have computer with internete access, will lurk -- sharon

(anyone remember -- have gun, will travel -- wire palladin??)

anything in those files that may have been incriminating was long ago removed.  This is a big part of the reason they are trying so hard to destroy Beth's credibility, so anything she has seen in the past, and has now been reomved, will just be chalked up to her lack of credibility.  It was never there and you cannot trust a word Beth or her journal says.  That is their goal.

In her opening statemets this writer subconsciously sends a bad message to all parents who read her article.


In Holloway case, Aruba also suffers

ORANJESTAD, ARUBA — A siren blares and whistle-blowing waiters race in to the hectic beat of the "Mexican Hat Dance." It's time for the hourly tequila attack at Carlos 'n Charlie's.

The target is an already inebriated blond with seven gal pals, a sunset-colored rum drink and a sunburned nose. The waiters crown her with a giant sombrero, toss a serape over her bare shoulders and pour a stream of golden liquid into a mouth turned up like a baby bird's.

Liquor-plying mission accomplished, a DJ swaps the peppy Mexican melody for a blaring rendition of dance group T-Spoon's "Sex on the Beach."

Thanks!

Very helpful info.

Always a bit disappointing to discover another liar, though :(  

Maybe they weren't lieing intentionally (and maybe the moon IS made of green cheese)

Unfortunately, I am pretty much in agreement with you.

The investigation does not look good from the outside looking in.  I am trying to maintain some semblance of hope, however, and not just totally give up.

.

Maybe someone will attempt to answer this dumb question that I have concerning thought printing...

If Deepak's emails are on the up and up and were truly written by him alone...which to me is very doubtful...knowing they are mostly fabricated lies...how does that validate Dr. Hodges claims?  I found him most interesting, yet I would like for him to answer just a few nagging questions that I have.

Yep, she did a "thought print" all over herself!   :P

Today I am feeling a little like we are stuck on Groundhog Day.  This case needs to move in one direction or another.

Herein lies more truth than she thought she had told.  She tries to use prose to make this sound like a walk in the beautiful moonlight of a rose garden, but what is exposed is the fact that she accepts this behavior by bartenders as the norm.  It clearly exposes her as an enabler to what goes on in Aruba, and that is the obvious drugging of tourists.

Thanks Dayhiker! I thought it was Cuomo.

Of course, I did not save a copy.

It might have been here at SM at one time -- I don't think it still is, but I will try to look.


If anyone did save it -- please repost.

He did say that he had investigated the recipient of this letter and had done extensive investigation of this.  Not unlike a journalist, he goes to another paragraph to mention who helped him in this investigation.  Who does he mention later on who has encouraged him to become a profiler?

I want to clarify this for all those that bombarded my yahoo email today with Simian/Shango questions.  

Is there any evidence, that anyone has, linking Merian Ernest to Simian?  An IP addy, perhaps or something?  Also, how can the true Simian have only surfaced on or after June 24?  What about the very first Simian posts?  What happened to the Gabe Leo and Albert Vrjolik theories? Where do they fit in?  If Simian is actually Clyde Burke by June 24 wouldn't that make him a doppleganger instead of the original Simian?  Just some of the questions I have been asked today.  TIA

I'm just trying to get y'all to prepare yourselves for the BIG letdown.  We have had it so many times before, and this next one will be the big one.  I hope i'm wrong but I want everyone to be ready because if you step away and take a look at things, it sure doesnt look good.

The original Simian started posting on June 17th and his last post was on July 1st (using the nickname Baboon).  

At SM, there is no evidence linking Merian Ernest to Simian that I know of.

The link between Clyde Burke and Simian was made by Grande based upon Simian's posts and the timing of the statements made to ALE (PV's) that Clyde Burke was involved with.

Blah, I agree that it does not look good for us.  However, we really have no idea of what is going on in Aruba.  We are really clueless.  I did not hear any optimism in Beth's nor Dave's tones but others state they did.  I think all is not lost.

I think over time the whole Island of Aruba has become guilty by default.  How do you punish them collectively?  You cut off what is near and dear to them, their income.

Has Aruba not felt the impact of the Monkeys by a decrease in tourism and empty hotel rooms whose costs are being defrayed by money laundering.  Gambling on line could become their main source of income and no one has fought that more than Congressman Baucus.  I know that does not sit well with some here, but that is probably because they read the small picture and not all the fine print.

I think we have a winner in that congressman and his assistance or lack thereof in this has left  some baffled, but not me.  I can see the larger picture.  If you cannot convict the three PIMPS you go after the island collectively by hitting them in the pocketbook.  That might not be making Joran, Deepak or Satish admit to what they have done, but you can collectively punish an apathetic people by removing their source of income.

Yes, Blah.  The let down is coming.  I can see it already.  They will not officially close this case...ever. The Dutch will simply say they can't find any conclusive evidence that Joran, Deepak, or Satish caused the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  They were the last seen with her from the point of few of her friends only...just because that is fact means little to them.  Too much corrruption and too much at stake to say any more by the Dutch. There is no evidence left...it was destroyed within the first weeks. To do that would require the family access. The family will only get a few tidbits thrown at them as if they are the strays waiting for food.  This case can not be solved now, it's too late.  There is no one willing to come forward and tell the truth. Too risky.

If they do not have enough evidence to bring charges, they definitely do not have enough evidence to declare this an accident, runaway, or anything else.  So, there is no logical way to close the case.  Maybe some of the arrogance we have seen demonstrated might pay off in this instance.  Are these Dutch experts willing to just throw up their hands and say they can’t solve the case?

To tell the truth, I’m not feeling all that good about things either.  Something has this case stuck and no one has been able to make it move.  If Tim could find something in this new search, I think that would make all the difference.  Maybe we all need to start chanting or something……

I know where Lalas is coming from on the Gabe Leo and Albert Vrjolik question. A long time ago a few of us monkeys were invited to a private chat room, where we were told that another monkey had talked to those two people and they had admitted being Shango and Simian. There seemed to be evidence for that at the time, so I've often wondered why we dropped that theory.

Well, there was that one post the was in Morse code and I don't think too many people know that or use that. Had to be someone with a military or LE back ground IMO.

No idea how Gabe totally fits in... Someone on the FP, I think 1906, says he has a pic of Gabe and GVC together.. but I don't know..

Also, on the Drudge Report they have a story about Beth and John Ramsey. I'm not posting it because it doesn't matter to the investigation.

I am always skeptical of people in "guest" chat rooms because they select their audience and tell them what they want to be heard without any proof.

the way they will go about closing the case is to declare it cold and then to just quit working on it.  Quit talking about it, quit responding about it, keep it quiet until it goes away.  By declaring it cold they basically close it. (although not "officially closed")

Truthfully, I would really like to openly ask some questions about Simian and Shango that I fear to do because of the infighting that will result.  However, if we really want to break this thing open and get some action of some sort these questions should asked and those with the power to provide the information should have the decency to put aside petty differences and answer them.  This is not directed toward any one person either and most do not even post here in fact.  I just think the time has come for a lot of this cloak and dagger stuff to end and results to begin...Natalee deserves justice.

Ok I have said my peace.  I will go back to my corner.

The key to this is definitely finding Natalee.  This proves she did not runaway and that some harm came to her on that island.  That's why I hope the thought print process will be helpful.  Whether we like it or not, Paulus was correct.  Without a body there apparently isn't much of a case.

This wasn't a super secret hidey hole, just a chat online for fun and the discussion changed when someone, I won't name them, asked a pointed question.  I have no reason to doubt the source.

That is exactly what I think but Simian was not always the same Simian, but did not Simian become Merian Ernest at the point the doppleganger was taking over Simian's identity?  No?

You guys can send all your apologies to me for all the teasing I got when I indicated this months ago. Thank you very much. :roll:

Blah,

Assuming you're right and we get this big letdown....what then?  I for one am not ready to throw in the towel, so how do we prepare and what steps do we take next?

Is there a single document anywhere containing the Merian Ernest posts??????

Yep, Paulus had it figured from the beginning and had plenty of help to make it happen.  Maybe Holland will have better luck when the next body disappears.

Thank you for that information, klaas.

(i feel better :D )

Truthseeker, they are in the Important Case Documents.  Page 2.

Lala's,

I'm all for discussing Simian and Shango (and Baboon, Mano, Merian).  I'll try not to offend anyone, but I think there is some information that can be gleaned from these posts.

there will be nothing we can do except try to strenghten the boycott.

Thanks!!!

who is Merian Ernest  and WTF is a doppledonger?

Lala's, like a lovely flower hid amongst the roses, there were smaller flowers here doing great works and some of those lovely little flowers ceased posting out of fear there would be a confrontation which would cause him/her to be banned for stating what research had revealed and who research extensively had revealed as the real Simian.  

I do not think at this point I need to apologize because I think we are thinking alike.  

There were too many reasons to mistrust some posters from the beginning, among them being some of the sisters we mentioned last week, but there were others and just because someone offers you a hand today does not mean they are biting your hand hidden in plain view.

Did you mean doppleganger?  Well, maybe not.  :lol:

Well, Lala's, let's not keep aluding to it, let's get it on. :wink:

I don't know where Gordo posted so I can't check it.  A quick search did not turn up any posts.

And as I have always indicated and have stated many times.....



sharon:
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Explanation on the picture --

The picture had been 'cropped' when it originally hit the internet. Freddy had been cropped out.

Simian (Merrian Ernest) had made the comment about the 'hand' -- he wanted us to know there must have been a fourth in the picture.

The 'uncropped' picture surfaced -- and you can see it is Freddy.

See -- nothing that mysterious. Except that Simian wanted to make sure we knew that Freddy was in the original picture. Why??

I don't know where the picture came from originally -- or who initially cropeed it.

Was watching this ex-tabloid reporter and she said a picture of Paris in jail would easily be worth a million bucks!  Can you believe that?

You and I are square with this.  I know what you mean, we have discussed it many times.  I think it's time to take off the gloves and get down to business.  I, like you, have been maligned repeatedly about stuff like this.  Your insistence that the HI played a greater role than most want to believe and me with my Simian/Shango rantings.   I have spent countless hours studying those cryptic messages and Merian Ernest was a topic you and I both tried to discuss without success many times.  It's all good with us...we be on the same side.  :wink:

yeah, i guess, what is it?

nauseating.  Her mugshot was flashed on the news a minute ago~it looked like she was posing for a glamour shot.  gag.

Exactly!!!

I can't find the Merian Ernest posts in the Important Case Documents - (I'm only getting page 1 of 1).  Checked the Simian/Shango topic, and they're not listed on that one.  ??  More help?  Been a loooong time since I've read them and would like to review.  TIA!!

Doppleganger = double/imposter, as far as I know.

IMO

Simian, Baboon, Mono, Merian Ernest had inside information as was most likely ALE.  My guess is Grande may be onto something when he thinks Simian was Clyde Burke.

It appears in June 2005 Simian was giving us actual information.  After June 2005 he started with the coverup (probably was given orders to).

This is my opinion only.

no, I cant believe you were watching a show where they were talking about Paris Hilton or how much her pictures are worth

I have to leave for work...will check in when I get there if not too busy...

Someone explain to Blah about a doppleganger....someone that is exactly like the original....almost, nearly...kinda.   :roll:

Okay ladies ~ start talkin' cause I have time to listen ~ school's out and I'm celebrating ~  :wink:

A doppleganger is your double, your look-a-like. The idea is, somewhere on this planet walks someone who looks just like you. One day you walk into a bar and ... whamo. Anyway, that's what I understand from reading Agatha Christie. Dopple means double in German, and ganger must be spirit or ghost. A doppledonger, as you suggest, would be quite a specimen.  :oops:

there there... my little friend

the DUTCH are not playing hop scotch  8)


be patient

its coming

the TRAIN.......that is  :twisted:

She is a very unimportant person that has yet to do anything with her life, but a picture of her in jail is worth a million bucks.  Something is wrong in this world......

Uncovered and had to twist in the wind correctly and collectively making herself/himself more politically correct and in line with the powers that be, perhaps an international lawyer who was scolding this young one for being out of line.

ok thanks.  So who is Merian Ernest ?

i have not been wrong in an major situation in 10 robotic years
im not about to start now


i can sense it  8)

A double, an identical replica of a person. The idea behind this is that everyone has a Doppleganger, an identical copy of themselves somewhere in the world. If the person is good, then the Doppleganger will be evil and vice versa. It is even said that if the two should meet, then they will both perish.

Although there is no evidence that Dopplegangers exist, some people have actually reported claims of witnessing what they believe to be their Doppleganger. In all likelihood however, Dopplegangers are an aspect of myth only.

Image: Do you have an identical copy ?

Considering her story is on the cable news channels 24 hours a day, it ain't that hard to believe.

I’ve never followed the riddles, but I can see how something like that would have been very interesting, especially during the early days of this case.  But, I’ve got to ask a couple of questions.  

What does everyone hope to learn from those limericks at this late date?  Is there something hidden in the text that might reveal something contrary to what we have learned through the PV’s, etc.?  Will those hidden meanings direct us to the location of a body?

Just curious……

The thing is, Simian didn't talk in riddles, only Shango did.

I just have to believe that the Dutch being silent is a GOOD thing. It tells me that they trust NO ONE. If they were here to "close" the case -- they would be "leaking" tidbits such as "we aren't finding anything."  The rift with Rudy Croes is extremely telling IMO.

you  sure it wasnt a dopplergangerbanger?

No clue who Merian Ernst is. I too am waiting for the answer.

I think what Klaas is trying to say is that the research Grande has done would lead one to believe it was someone in law enforcement and the aforementioned ALE person may have been or if he was not, someone close to the investigation, Tromp, etc., but who is the doppleganger, that fetid mongrel, Frenchman, I assume as that was often how they were referred.

And I think you're delicious.  :wink:

I posted a couple pages back that Merian Ernest appears to be the same person as Simian.

Why?

To Whom?

I'd much rather see four perverts in striped suits than Paris....

Thanks for that post, Peaches, and thanks for being here.  Good to know you are doing well.

Yes, I think K2 and Anita's Sporter would look good in jumpsuits, maybe pink.

 :lol:   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

ok we got that part but who is Merian Ernest?

we know Simian is someone who used to post here, but who are they AWAY from here??

According to me who knows nothing, one Simian was someone who posted here also under a different name.

Anybody notice this??? Case relocated to Curacao??

My guess is ALE and very possibly Clyde Burke.

Mornin' Peaches and all the other cage mates,

I agree with you...striped suits! But more than four....mama sloth needs the see through blousy kind.

Destiny ;-)

Klaas I think Gordo Enmisión posted at RWV as well. I do have all their posts.

Well, this young woman was on Fox talking about Paris.  This woman used to be a reporter for some tabloids and she has a book called Tabloid Prodigy.  She told about the things she was asked to do to get a story, etc.  She said that the tabloids will get to someone on the inside, or get someone to get arrested if need be to get the pictures.  And those would easily go for a million bucks.

lala's I'd like to raise my hand to say something regarding your suggestion, well a couple of things.

I'm not a big shango/simian expert but at this late date if everyone can't lay down swords so a robust discussion can take place, then what are those who might object's motivations? I mean your theory hasn't brought resolution so why on earth can't we hear others?

it all seems so petty to me IMO, to argue over such.

Easy, honestly I think it's likely equally as important to allow this process to occur even if the outcome isn't a direct result that can be defined.

At this point in time, I fear I tend to believe the dutch arrived to hit the two loudest marks, search the homes so they could close this case -officially or not. Why come so close to the two-year mark if not, for heaven's sake they have been 'on the case' since last fall. I think timing is likely a big indicator here.

Sorry I was wrong Gordo posted at SM. It has been so long I am having memory lapses. Here are Gordo posts:

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 2 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: ...and the yellowhammer has flown.
________________________________________
The god with the misspelled name will not fulfill his Mithra. A copycat he was. Not more
can be said.
Soon the dirty waters shall be made of salt and rain again. The clouds keep rolling.

Three Dietsers will try. A swollen tongue will not let anyone talk. His pantoufle de vair
much less so.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 2 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: Veritas semper en agaria
________________________________________
The incident at the Savannah of the Broom is not for the lost yellowhammer. The Quisqueya
did that for herself.

Do not wag. Can the dogs are soaked in dirty water drag 16.04? Not if there is no weight.

Choose sides now. Broken promises. So Damocles seems to think he can get confortable?
Swift and efficient is the karma.

Greased floors of the palace halls. Many passageways. A shadow of a men that will never
stand in them again.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?


Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 3 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject: Austen's masterwork
________________________________________
The words combines cause all too much grief. Generalizations. Pain.

Just as all the Arawaks are thrown into a burning stake by fingerpointers. Three fingers
point back at the gringos.

Pax Romana. Gratitude and humbleness go a long way to erase imperial howls.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: Shango is 8-5
________________________________________
On a mission. The god with the misspelled name is no more. The new form knows this.

The god with the misspelled name is two-fold being with too many minutes in his hour.
Idle hands. Idle thoughts.

Childish metaphors more akeen to a sempoa-handler than a self-respecting wordsmith.

Goodness, thank you. His mind is elsewhere.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 5 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: Party like it's...
________________________________________
The Tracy has a trench coat that died. Access long denied. A worthless piece of paper
kept in a wallet that is growing fatter.

Funny, how he only speaks in his own language. Maybe the Yellowhammer should look for
new branches to perch on.

Cowboys are swinging with mud that will pretty soon stick to their own faces. Do they
think their shovels are hammers? Soon they will have neither.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: That Libanese Family...
________________________________________
They have nothing to do with the Yellowhammer case.

Fingerpointers, there are three fingers pointing back at the gringos.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject: It's a fish...
________________________________________
The Simian knows what a barbishi is.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: Get the name right...
________________________________________
Gratitude is the begging bowl's best advertisement. The Simian is not one to gloat.
Time is of essence. Always.

The grinding of teeth by Babylonians makes all so much more difficult.

All the slippery afternoon delight Tracy's work couldn't figure that Eurydice would not
rise.

The human form was consumed for sign language and free tickets in rockets are much more
worthwhile.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject: His mind is not for rent...
________________________________________
The Simian is not the same as the god with misspelled name.

Just as a macamba is not a macumba.

You have desecrated the Merian form and now you are finishing off the Simian.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: Unmasked the god with
the misspelled name is...
________________________________________
My city is destroyed, my house is wrecked, my children have been taken captive.

I have been forced to leave .... a fugitive. Even I escape not from thy hand.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: How can a fish be a
friendly foreigner?
________________________________________
Redeemed is the house of the Babylon. For it is grander than the palace itself. The robed
ones have walked the line too many times. Thin as it may well be.

Pink mist for what used to be. Address with respect. Question the whisperer you must not.

A "Dietser in Aruba" has twisted the ears and eyes of many. Never of the Simian.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

Gordo Enmisión

Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject: His mind is not for
rent to any god or government...
________________________________________
The Simian only relays. Never claimed to know where Eurydice may lay.

The reporting detective suits you well. You latino speaking knickerbockers wearing fool.
The Simian hopes you are not an embarrassement to your fellow Ladino people. Son of the
Jaguar you are, forget not.

The Simian does know the frontpage history of the becoming of the god with the misspelled
name. Look for the "Dutch in Aruba". A lie perpetuated too long.

Always engaging most of you are. Again the form must be consumed.

Goodbye, Nouvelle Fille. Tu est ma meilleur amie.
_________________
Et tu, Guillermin?

:lol: I knew Yap would ride in with Mirriam Earnest data

good girl !

and Easy I do believe Jossy, I'm not discounting him, I just think those dutch are as slippery a slope as the ALE when it comes to answers and closure. :?

Yapperz - if Gordo posted in the SM forum back then I can't search because the original posts are not available.  IMO it does not sound like Simian to me but I could be wrong.

I totally agree with None.  Let's have an open and honest discussion about this because each time it is mentioned, hell seems unleashed and there is never a resolution.  If it is done now without objection, we can forever put behind us what differences we have regards Simian, Merian, et al, or maybe not but let's remember we are all here for Natalee and her family.  Neither of us should be here anymore to advance our own theory than that of someone else.  Let's agree to disagree on the finer points but allow each one time to state what he/she thinks.

Klaas if I am not mistaken Gordo & Alcazar's Revenge & possibly Merian Ernest posted in code talkers thread. So it won't be searchable.

We are getting a real gully washer here in N Florida. If this is the Big One, it's been nice knowin' ya, monkeys.  :D

Please send it north of you.  My water bill is looking like the national debt.

Driving by, but had to pop in and say that I soooo.... agree with what you are saying/thinking.

I did a little side-by-side comparison of posts b/t Simian and "another" after a little flower spoke. It was very, very compelling and left me with little doubt.

What I don't understand is why we have been and continue to be redirected sotaspeak.

PS: sorry for messing up the other quote

Gladly, Tyler. I'm going to have to send Lassie to town to tell them the bridge is out.  :D

Well, I suppose for the same reason Bush would not admit it was Putin who was helping take the WMD out of Iraq into Syria, for fearing of not insulting Putin on the world stage when we depended on him for something.  We don't know what that something is but something.

not getting sued?  :?:

PValerie  :lol: Lassie?

we had a few gully washers over the weekend but we're still here, I think it's more that the clouds are so unaccustomed to frequent rain they toss it back our way too fast  :lol: they need to space it out better!

Klaas I bumped the Merian Ernest posts & copied my saved posts of Gordo & Alcazar's Revenge to a thread. You can delete the post in the forum of Gordo's posts.

tyler  :lol: did you see putin's calling himself the only true democrat ????

 :smt005  :smt037  :smt044  :smt043

He might be.  He poisons equally and spares no one the atomic bomb. :lol:

I have no idea,so I will offer none.We had 4 raindrops here,so send any you can spare.

Putin is a dangerous man.

G'Afternoon, Monkies.
Raining like heck here.

Had a long post regarding putting everything on the table and sorting it all out, but then realized I didn't know what the heck I was talking about and deleted it all! :lol:  :shock:

I have never belittled anyone's theories regarding this case.  I fail to follow your assertions here that my theory has hindered anything.  I guess I am reading this wrong.  Please clarify for me.  I am open to many theories that a lot on this board would have the proverbial hissy fit over.  Take Eleye and Colombo's theories an an example.

Back to work,so you may return and discuss Shango and Simian.I only understand feline.

I totally agree with this.

back to lurking

IIRC Merian Ernest, Gordo & Alcazar's started posting after we had to register at SM in order to post. Maybe Simian felt he/she was hiding the connection.

LOL.  Now that's funny.   :lol:

Lala's I am on your side here  :lol:  :lol:

Let me be as simple as I can, I think you should be able to discuss it and hopefully answer all the questions any and all have.

No hissy fits by anyone allowed  :lol:

how's that?  :wink:

I think you are right about the timing and registration.  But does all that timing not also tie in with certain points in the investigation because it seems that crashes would occur or registrations and/or repeat registrations based on some of the information being set forth.  It seemed their timing was also in line with ours, not by our design, but theirs.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Lala's tyler said it better than I did, this was exactly what I meant and see even Art agrees  :D

hey if we agree to age before beauty we can likely pass this one pretty quickly too  :lol:  :lol:

If I may...

There should only be one side here.

Justice for Natalee, bring her home.

jmho

Absolutely! :lol:

Anyone see this yet?  I'm sure you have, but...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277718,00.html

Here's why there's a boycott. These are the thoughts of the typical Aruban. And she wonders when anyone will ever have something decent to say about her little corner of the world? Bet she gladly accepts US dollars though.


SweetLiLislandGirL
Member since: February 17, 2007
   
 how strict is the drinking ?:@

 U know every weekend i see tourist getting pissy drunk and passing out or driving at 90km per hour on the wrong side of the road.
 I am so sick of tourist smashing up rental cars cos there to drunk to hold the wheel. and about Natalee Holloway : she brought it on herself God knows if it wasn't her ex who killed her, cos he was there seeing how she was acting and further more why the heck was she so drinking so much and hanging around strangers . didn't she know better coming from the US and all. that is not acting ever so innocent -now is it? . all u ppl love to do is come to our islands and insult our way of living when all u guys ever do is get freaking drunk out of ur minds and pass out and make idiots of yourselfs. when will someone decent ever have a nice comment to say about MY Caribbean

Even better advice go and educate urself b4 making ignorant comments about a country u never been or better yet dont ever come to the Caribbean we don't need ur types here.

 Proud Caribbean Empress

Death of Aruba tourism: Darkness falls on lost paradise

Powered by CDNN - CYBER DIVER News Network
by PAUL HARRIS
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (4 July 2005)


Only then, many days after Holloway had been reported missing, did the Aruban police arrest the boys. Such inaction has smacked of a mix of incompetence, Holloway's family says. Van der Sloot's father, Paul, is a respected judge on the island. The family is part of the island's social elite. Joran, despite being 17, was a regular in the casinos. He and the Kalpoe brothers are well known on the island's social scene, regulars at bars frequented by the young Americans.

Suddenly Aruba's paradise has started to look tarnished. Race has also reared its head. Much has been made of the delays in arresting any suspects -- including the van der Sloots -- while the two security guards, who were both black, were picked up swiftly. It has also cast a spotlight on the island's nightlife, rife with copious booze and fuelled by illicit drugs. Dealers lurk outside some bars, whispering to passers-by to see if they want to score. Rumours claim that among the clientele of Carlos'n Charlie's are those overfond of the use of "date rape" drugs in spiked drinks.

For the Aruban authorities it has been a public relations disaster.

Yes, I've seen it. God Bless both of them and I hope they can find comfort in each other.

writing very similar to a melodic tune.

To the Proud Caribbean EMpress, aka: SweetLIlIslandGirl (who isn't very sweet, I might add)
Um, because Decent people see right through your Happy LIttle Hell Hole???? Could that be why "Decent" people won't have a nice comment about YOUR Caribbean???  

BTW, wonder what HER Carribean is anyway???? THat little pimple called Aruba????

Same song (now), second or third verse, tourism ain't gonna get no better, it's gonna get worse.  Let the sweet little island Melody queen sing.  She has not the money nor the wares to attract tourism, just a parrot of the sloots and their spin machine which is on high but heating up due to overuse.

So, all those wrecks in the papers every day are tourist?  Funny that the reporters fail to mention that little detail. lol

Proud Empress is so typical of the mindset.  Someone should put her in charge of ATA.  I'm sure that would build up those tourist numbers!

Her family is very much involved in AHATA.

You know, I'd bet a Glock pointed right at the "family Jewels" would bring answers forth and fluently from all three little perverts mouths!

Lala's, I gotta run now.  Those clothes will not get folded and ironed as I sit and ask you to talk to us.  So if you start discussing, please "ping me" as I will be waiting somewhere lost in laundry.

Well, if I jump in here and start this discussion...I fear those that need to answer the questions we all have will say nothing and then we will be no closer to ending this cryptic discussion...if I get banned I will cry...

Art - I bet if we let San just pull Renfro's hair we'd get a few answers too  :lol:  :lol:

banned? I am totally confused now, maybe I should just slink away, lala's again i wasn't speaking against you but for you.

take care all

Lala's,

I'll be in the discussion.  I can't imagine we would get banned as long as we are not trying to hurt someone else here.  Problem right now is...I'm supposed to be working.  (shoot...I showed up and they want me to work too!)  I'm peeking in whenever I can...so just know you are not alone in that discussion.

Peeking in from work....
Did Shango refer to music ??
This had a reference to Clyde Burke  http://www.yadoneknow.com/antoni.htm

and this one the band name  http://www.nboband.com/home/?page_id=7  and this
:shock:  :shock:
If this is old news   sowwy
Seeyalater

Hi Gang,
I'm still reading to catch up, but I wanted to jump in and post a link I found.  I don't know if anyone has posted it before or not, or even if it would be helpful, but you never know.  It's a link to the International Police Association Aruba at http://www.ipa-aruba.org/ .  I found it while perusing some Hi5 websites of Arubans.

I guess I'm really dense . . . are you saying that some of the monkeys *CAN* answer our questions ~ but choose not to  :? .  This is humiliating to sound so stupid.  :oops:

Why don't we just get Dana to interview Shango and Simian?   8)

I'm guessing here, but I don't think Lala's is referring to any particular person. I think she's referring to all the hoo-hah that erupted a few months ago when we had several monkeys who wanted to discuss Shango and Simian in the forum. It upset quite a few folks, and there was wailing and gnashing of teeth, and some of the Shango/Simian fans stopped posting.

Don't write me up if I'm wrong, Lala's, okay? :)

Yep!! That too! :lol:
But, bet San wouldn't want to TOUCH that rat's nest Renfro wears on her head. What is that thing anyway? Roadkill? Sure looks like it! :shock:

Very interesting, OF....I've never seen this before.

I got lost with this, also...you are not alone.

Well, Lala's recalls a night when the cage was beseiged by some whose involvement might/might not have been but I think what occurred was a standoff between some of the RU gang and the Monkeys, and there was more than one instance and to that one which you refer, but there are other forces that might not want it discussed.  

I have no idea.  I think I will let the laundry sit and see if it will iron itself.  I got the towels folded and put away.  It's ironing those darn cotton and linen things I keep buying that is eating at me like a moth on a wool coat.

Okay, I'm jumping in here and putting words in Lala's mouth again, but....again, I think she's talking about the folks who tried to Shango and Simian here a few months back and then clammed up because of the reaction of some other monkeys.

Oh no Nonesy...I know you were not speaking to me.  I am not the least offended...I am sorry I confused you.  Are you baking cookies and just don't want to tell us for fear we will be knocking on your door?  :roll:

You are correct.  I know there were some odd ideas back then, but I think had we just jumped in and either proved our point or not we would not be here discussing the identities now.

Just a quick shout out to all..

How's my None? :wink:

 :lol:  :lol:

I can personally agree to that happening to me here one night in the no so distant past, when the subject turned not to the content of the writings but rather who wrote it, where did I bring it from, that doesn't sound like shango to me....., etc etc.

Found this in the guest book of that site:

Name:     Paul van den Hoven
Location:    Netherlands
Email:    phmob@freeler.nl
Comment:    Thanks for the wonderfull cooperation on our Forensic job in June in Aruba. Hope to meet you guys again in other circumstances; and I hope the victim will be found. Thanks David Wing for your introduction to Aruba.
 
Name:    Paul van den Hoven
Location:    Netherlands
Email:    phmob@freeler.nl
Comment:    Congratulations with you website and with your active IPA division on Aruba. Regards to the IPA-member Police Force and Special thanks and to mr. David Wing with whom I worked together in a High Profile case on Aruba this year. Hope to meet you guys again

hey miss Jacq {{HUG}}

I'm just trying to keep my nose clean, San does all the hair pulling  :lol:

how's our twinkletoes?  :D

I will repeat what I think I know based upon email addresses used and location of IP:

SIMIAN = Simian, Baboon, Mono (on the front page of SM) and Merian Ernest at RWV

Based upon what Simian said in June 2005 and the PV that Clyde Burke participated in I think it's possible that Simian was Clyde Burke.  If not Clyde someone else in ALE, but I lean towards Clyde.

Don't know about Gordo.

Nonesy
Are you baking cupcakes for Old Fart?  I bet you are.

Nothing about Natalee's case has been typical, so the Shango stuff is probably just as valid a topic as anything else.  I just never followed it and my earlier question was simple without hidden meaning.  I just wanted to know where people thought it was take us at this time.  In the beginning we had nothing but rumor and misinformation, so anything and everything was very interesting.  Now we do have a few documents that we can examine and scrutinize.

What percentage of the actual witness statements does everyone think has been made available?  That McGraw request was a very long list of many names that were new to me.

Jacqueline
I thought about you last night as I was watching the Sopranos! :lol:
So, is the whole family gonna get bumped off, INCLUDING Tony?????  
Oh I hate to see that series end. :cry:

Hmmmm I think Tony and his family will live but their family will not be in tact.

I am so sad to see this thing of ours end.

 :lol:

i'm good , I lurk when i can, been so busy.

But trying to keep up with any natalee news. i cannot believe it's been
two years already.

OH I am too. I really looked forward to seeing it each week..Oh well.
One of the best series I've ever seen.

Amen.
And I got to meet James Gandolfini in person at a fundraiser.
He signed my program , gave me a hug and a kiss and could not have
been more gracious.

Much slimmer in person than on the screen.

A wonderful, humble human being who does alot of charity work.

I asked Carla Baron to give me some inside scoop on her upcoming premier episode and she sent me the standard press release.   :x

Do ya think she read my mind?   :shock:

Agreed.

As far as I am concerned, discussion = fine.

I don't have strong enough convictions in any direction to express much and sure don't have any additional insight but will try to read what others think.

.

Have you ever known a male who would love a woman so much that he would cheat on her but when confronted with his cheating, he would rather than admit it or apologize, kill the woman with whom he cheated?   :shock:

Oh, How wonderful!!!! (and exciting!)
I've heard that he is a wonderful human being!

Los Angeles, CA (PRWEB) June 4, 2007 -- Carla Baron is gearing up for the premiere of her runaway hit Court TV series, "Haunting Evidence," launching it's 2nd season on June 20th with a one-hour special on the Natalee Holloway investigation in Aruba.

Television audiences know Carla Baron, internationally renowned psychic, from her work on Court TV's "Psychic Detectives," ABC's "Primetime," MTV's "Fear," and the British hit program, "Dead Famous," which has broadcast in the United States on the Biography Channel. Her series, "Haunting Evidence," also appears in regular syndication on the UK's LIVINGtv network, and Australia's FOXTEL.

Carla is most famous for her role as a psychic profiler, in which she assists police departments in identifying perpetrators in long standing unsolved crimes, homicides and abductions, in particular. In fact, Ms. Baron recently received what are now many hundreds of heartfelt requests worldwide - begging for her assistance in the kidnapping of little Madeleine McCann from her holiday apartment in Portugal on the night of May 3rd.

"I am so excited for this 2nd season of Haunting Evidence to begin," Carla remarks. "There is a surprise reveal right before the special on Natalee that is not to be missed!"

Ms. Baron states that her current contract with Court TV is up for renewal, and she is in negotiations for a possible Season 3, should one be ordered by the network in the next few months. On the horizon - Carla is also considering several other pilots for series in development, all of which possess diverse and fascinating premises within the realm of the paranormal.

One thing's for certain, though - we will be seeing much more of Carla Baron. (And we didn't need to consult our "crystal ball" for that one!)

Producers, press and media agencies, network representatives, and others wishing to contact Ms. Baron directly should do so by visiting her official website: www.carlabaron.net.

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/6/emw530621.htm

[quote="ArtcolleyAnd I got to meet James Gandolfini in person at a fundraiser.
He signed my program , gave me a hug and a kiss and could not have
been more gracious.

Much slimmer in person than on the screen.

A wonderful, humble human being who does alot of charity work.[/quote]

Oh, How wonderful!!!! (and exciting!)
I've heard that he is a wonderful human being![/quote]

He does alot of fundraising and visits  the troops.
he is really a good guy.

No, Tyler, Cant say that I have! :lol:  :shock:

Lala's, I do think a Shango/Simian discussion is useful.  I do not believe we should confine the discussion to only content, as source and timing are always important to understanding content.  I don't know that much about the Shango/Simian posts, but I will discuss to the best of my ability.  I'm not shy about saying I don't understand something.

Do you remember the cadets who were the top graduates in their high school and one went off to the Naval Academy and one to the Air Force Academy, I believe it was, and she ordered him to kill the girl he was dating when he was separated from her and they killed her together.  Then they stood by each other for a longer period of time but in the end, I believe she turned on him.

I never got into the SHango stuff, but also never PooPoo'd it since I have not enough knowledge of it all. I guess I just sort of "ignored" it all for no particular reason.
However, I am open to learn.

But, this open discussion will be just confined to Shango and Simian?
Hasn't that already been done? I recall a whole thread on just this. Or is there new info? Things that haven't been revealed?

Oh, I'm SOOOO confused! :oops:

HEP ME! HEP ME!

I remember that case.  I read an article about her, I believe.  Didn't they kill the rival somewhere in Texas?

YEs, I do recall that case. Sickening, wasn't it?

DUTCH will win  8)

they HATE JORAN AND PAULUS

for good reason  8)

Zamora Trial: 'Shoot Her, Kill Her'

FORT WORTH, Texas
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/02/02/national/main1772.shtml

I am sorry to all,but i am lost.Did the aruban witch say it was drunk Americans wrecking the cars.Most of the reports seem to list names,that would aruban,IIRC.

Interesting last line by intrepid reporter Carol Williams. It factually contradicts content given a few paragraphs earlier.

AHATA spew, means nothing.  :arrow:

I'm behind ~ just outside of Fort Worth if I recall correctly/

Yes, yes...and yes. 8)

I haven't had time to get on today as I have been taking care of sick daughter #3.  Don't have time to read back so if someone else posted this I apologize and Klaasend can delete.

http://www.latimes. com/news/ printedition/ front/la- fg-natalee4jun04 ,1,6184870. story?page= 2&track=crosspromo&coll=la-headlines- frontpage

I agree with you Robots...my inner gut felings are in sync with yours.

Although my inner guts are all mushy, not metal like yours, We're on the same page.  I think it will be soon.

Destiny

 :wink:

 :wink:

Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 7 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: That Libanese Family...

I wonder if this is a reference to the Labouovic Family missing on Aruba?

i have disorder called "BULL CRAP DEFICIT DISORDER"


i cant help it, it drives most people i know crazy




this thing stinks to high heaven and the DUTCH know it


i know it
we all know it

and the DUTCH are going to SHOVE IT PAULUS MOUTH  8)

I agree with you Robot, I do believe the Dutch know something isnt right
I think they are doing everything they can to find evidence or witnesses
if they are not talking to ppl already.. I am sure they would love to pop
Joran and put him away

Rob, what is this about?

Exactly!

But once Shango began to 'confront' Simian on the FP -- Simian began the crazyspeak, too.

I would have said -- Shango -- wtf are you talking about :D But Simian jumped right in.

Easy It really was fascinating when you could watch the dialog 'live'.

Now, for me, it's more like tring to uncover the bs and lies. And to 'align' the comments with events. And to determine who was lieing intentionally -- and who might have been misled. And to figure out when it's the dopplegangers.

But Grande gets the prize. :D  That was great detective work  8)

I think we need a body or an eyewitness.  Beyond that I just don't see this going to court and we don't want them to take it to court if they can't convict.

 :?: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/zamora/2.html :?:

 that's right.   :wink:

:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Klaas! You have mail!

AZ Lady-
just four more people missing....from a few years before Natalee

Alcazar's Revenge! That's the one I couldn't remember.

Thanks yapz :wink:

Does anyone recall this particular charge? I read it  in a post by WorldJournier from another site. Could this be the reference to the container Natalee might be buried in possibly at sea ?

... On 6-11-05,  JAN VAN DER STRATEN---the ARUBAN Police commissioner &  Good  Friend  of  Former  "murder,  manslaughter  or  intentional  containment  with  the  dead"  Suspect  PAULUS  VAN  DER  SLOOT---was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRATEN replied,  “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe,  anymore,  that we will find Natalee alive.”   When asked why not, STRATEN quickly replied,  “Because  I  know  the  details  of  the  'investigation,'  and  you  don't!” ...

Yes, I remember that well.

 :cry:  :oops:  I was one of the ijits in that. I deeply regret it.

I remember reading that two years ago and thought that van der Straten was saying that he had seen evidence that clearly indicated Natalee had died--either he had seen her body or copious amounts of blood indicating she could no longer be alive.

 :wink:

I recall reading it, but think I tended to concentrate on the "I know the details of this case and you don't"(not verbatim). With recent talk of again searching the ocean and again considering the very real possibility that Natalee may have been taken out to the deep water, the container portion is of particular import IMO

I think containment in the context it is written means they are withholding evidence.  I don't think for one minute it means Natalee is in a container, although I don't doubt she is, but this reference has nothing whatsoever to do with that in the way it is written.  Just someone wanting to connect dots that have no connection.

I have seen the documents and evidence contained within and ...blah, blah, blah.  I don't think for one minute he said she was in a container in that statement, although perhaps somone is trying to do thought print on this guy.

By reading the Simian/Shango discussions it is very clear that they were, at best, friendly enemies.  I was told that was not true. I continue in that assertion that they were not friends.  There is a definite undertone to the fact that Simian clearly did not like many of the things Shango said.  I have always claimed Simian was an inside person associated in some way with ALE.  In fact Simian all but says that in the various posts.  

Now my question that will stir the pot...somebody's gotta ask this...

Rob
Please show us how you came to your conclusions of the identities of Shango and Simian.  I understand that Anidac was very instrumental in all the hard work that went in to this.  There!  I asked the one question that everyone keeps sidestepping. Now, someone show me the money on this one.

Maybe I'm just too literal, but I see van der Stratten saying he's seen evidence that she is deceased, that's all.  Now, I do believe it is only common sense to conclude that if her body was dumped in the deep water of the ocean, the body would be put into a container for this purpose.  They don't want bones or parts washing up on shore!  I don't need to be a thought printer to know this!  :lol:

Just posted by Pearl on the front page of SM  :lol:

I’m not sure of the source of this news brief, but I thought I’d share it with my favorite monkeys…

This just in.

An escaped mule has been reported to have broken into an LA news station, where it was spotted backing up into the desk of a woman who would only identify herself as “the Croc”.

When the mule arrived at the desk, it unloaded what some described as a major dump.

Waste management was called in, but when confronted by a source who would only identify herself as “Fluffer”, it was ascertained that the odiferous stench was not the result of the mule dropping a load on “the croc’s” desk, but from “some other ass” according to the anonymous source who stated: “ I’ve spoken with all the obvious potential suspects that could generate this kind of more-ass. I know this mule is innocent because I’ve seen lots of crap before.”

Gripped by her attractions for loads of crap, the anonymous source named Fluffer slithered onto the ground, sniffing out all the crap she could inhale. After zeroing in on Croc’s pile of papers, Fluffer sniped: “I’m convinced this ass is innocent, as are all the other asses. The crap is coming from Croc.”

Waste management reported the source of the foul odor was indeed stemming from an article left on the Croc’s desk.

When asked about the foul odor, waste management officials would only say: “We haven’t smelled a stench like that since that trip we made to that island sinking in the Carribbean , where we had to do a major overhaul of a septic tank over at this newspaper, called “Island Crapper ” and suddenly, this lady comes out screaming something about being a crap expert because she’s “probed all the crap on the island.”

When asked about the comments made by Fluffer and the Croc, the mule would only say:

“…and they call me an ass. Look at those two: a croc of crap – the two of them!”

Without knowing more, and reading these charges anything is possible. Containment can be literal ie in a container particularly when it references someone dead. I tend to think more interms of kidnapping or being held against ones will as phrases to be used when one is alive.

OMG--I'm laughing so hard my chair nearly tipped over.  That Pearl has a way with words, doesn't she?   :lol:

John Ramsey and mother of missing teen girl have special friendship
 
posted by: Sara Gandy , Web Producer  
written and reported by: Paula Woodward , 9Wants to Know Investigative Reporter    created: 6/4/2007 12:34:26 PM
Last updated: 6/4/2007 1:09:06 PM


KUSA - Despite recent reports, John Ramsey tells 9NEWS he is not dating Beth Holloway Twitty. On Monday morning he told 9NEWS they do have a special friendship based on tragedy.

Both Ramsey, 63, and Twitty, 46, have daughters who are victims of unsolved crimes.

Ramsey's daughter, 6-year-old JonBenet, was murdered the day after Christmas of 1996 in the family's home in Boulder. Twitty's daughter, Natalee Holloway, disappeared on a high school senior class trip while she was in Aruba. That was in May of 2005 and Natalee's body has never been found.

JonBenet Ramsey was beaten and strangled. Her parents were the focus of the investigation, but a grand jury in Boulder refused to indict them. They have always maintained their innocence. Ramsey's wife, Patsy, died last June of ovarian cancer. She was 49 and had been treated for ovarian cancer since the early 1990s.

Ramsey and Twitty met at a Speaker's Bureau Conference in December of 2006.

"We were introduced for the purpose of sharing one another's experiences and possibly of being of help to one another in two tragic situations," said Ramsey by phone to 9NEWS.

"The tabloid rumors are totally exaggerated. I have great respect for Beth and how she's handled her terrible situation. We've developed a friendship of respect and admiration."

Ramsey lives in Charlevoix, Michigan. Twitty lives in Alabama.


(Copyright KUSA*TV, All Rights Reserved)
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=71327

Containment of the dead=withholding evidence?

Yep  :lol:

Finally saw an ad on CTV for Carla Baron's trip to Aruba.  I was beginning to wonder why it wasn't being promoted.  The ad shows her walking on a portion of beach, describing her feelings.  Couldn't tell which beach.

Lala's ~ thank you :smt041  :smt041  :smt041

Hi Tyler!

(If your clothes fold themselves, can I have them teach mine , too  :lol: )


Here's another of my favorite VanDerStraaten 'comments'.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/13/natalee-holloway-june-13-2005/


Natalee Holloway; June 13 2005
Dutch newswire this morning (CET) reports that the dutch government sent two experts to Aruba. The JD refused to elaborate on the field of expertise. Police chief Jan van der Straten: I cannot tell you more, because then it is obvious in which way the investigation is going. According to Van der Straaten they will do very detailed work and didn't bring search and rescue dogs.

Thanks, Pays Bas and for the summary.

POST OF THE DAY  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Klaas can you put this one on a sticky for posterity?  :lol:

Beter yet, send it to the boss of the one who wrote that article!

Yes, some of our best talent is found on the FP for sure!

.

^5 Pearl

Very creative :lol:

Just as our policy of containment with certain countries --- we hold them back.  We hold back information, containment of information means holding it back.  He is speaking in litiginous lingo, not telling someone that a dead body is in a container.

why Anna, you look positively angelic to a fault !

I do hope you have something more stylish on underneath that habit ? I miss yours and your pups stylish outfits.

All Anna needs is a halo.   :wink:   However, I did prefer the cute little dresses and flowing tresses.  It's my predilection for aesthetic beauty, I guess.

Monkey friends, I am going to Curves to work out and hope you save anything earth shattering for when I return.  Let me know if Rob shows up.   :wink:

Bump

LaLas.. you should ask Anidac.. she has all the info.

Dayhiker wrote;



All of the pimps that left Aruba for the Netherlands certainly didn't co-operate.

Gut feeling for what it's worth....OMOO...Natalee is both on land and sea....I think she was dismembered....head/hands, no dental charts/fingerprints....only something drunk teens would think of...look no records...don't think of dna....hence Deepaks comment *wait till they see this shit.....after seeing the aftermath of that endevor...no shoes...all bloody.

Shoes in container, with all clothing during said event. Head too, maybe one small hand slipped out of container....the hand bones with tisue turned into ALE...but now gone

Papa sloth took care of body after realising how Joran and buddies f*cked up big time.....Papa sloth called in the troops to finish the job.   Container from fishermans hut contains only part of Natalee and rocks, clothing shoes....stupid punk teens.

Destiny....btw, Mana sloth knows everything....right down to Joran setting Papa up while Mama was out of town....many times.....Mama sloth has vidios of *parties* to hold everyone in check.  the key holder.

Destiny   JMHO...and gut feeling

Thanks, Sharon.  I think he means people have not been forthcoming (containment).

I hope Anidac will be more forthcoming.

It was my understanding that you had this info as well.  Sorry.

this sounds like a medical examiner or someone of that nature.  This is also the timeframe when "one of the suspects has confessed and is leading us to the body"

 "I cannot tell you more, because then it is obvious in which way the investigation is going"  can only mean  a medical examiner, forensic pathologist or whatever they call these people who deal in dead people

And why would they send one of these type people unless they had a body?

Lala'smon
I didn't save stuff way back than...Anidac has all the IPs and all of the other stuff.

I'm not being flippant, I just don't have all the stuff to prove it.

Andiac spoke to Albert and in an IM he confirmed he was Simian... everyone wanted to be Simian I guess.. and who knows what they were all told to do.

I believe when Anidac reappears she will have what you are looking for.

Thanks but think I will stick with this for a bit.  Just feels right some how.

. :wink:

Must get approval from Blah since he got me that nice Burka to wear.  I don't want to offend him.  Sort of the same principle just adjusted the religion for now.

Thanks for asking, however.

 :D

I agree, not asking logical follow-up questions can not be taken any other way.

 :lol:  :lol:

I think the fact that he said 'didn't bring search and RESCUE dogs was very telling :cry:

I agree :cry:

Thanks Rob.

Anidac said she would give it to anyone who asked but she never responded to my private requests and got somewhat upset when I asked her in public.  So I am not sure we will be able to get it that route.  Perhaps Klaas would ask her for us.

I am not, never have been, or ever will be a member of the all inclusive always offended club.

You are free to wear anything from the burka to your birthday suit - does not bother me.

You may stomp, spit, cuss, or chew tobacco if you so wish.

You can drink yourself into a blubbering idiot or smoke weed out behind the woodshed - I dont care.

You can peirce your nose, color your hair purple, and get tatooes from head to toe.

You can vote democrat, republican, independant or not at all.

You can even ride your bicycle without a helmet!

You can call me names, spit and my general direction and protest my existance.

DO NOT burn my flag, kick my dog, touch my woman, or take anyone I know to Aruba and we will get along just fine.  :wink:

 :smt008

Is there an award forthcoming for Pearl?   :lol:

Lalas... I was uploading a ton of photos to a bucket.. and I can talk more now.. I'm sorry my answers were short... but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

Anidac had all that info saved on one of her servers and she gave me and Klaas the pass-codes to use the info, but I never used it.. I didn't like the idea of milling around in someone else's server.

Anidac has everything you are looking for....

it will show on the 13th, correct?

Tyler... I don't think it was anything at all personal.. she just had alot going on in her own life and some of it was pretty important and I think she would be willing to share the Simian info...I don't see a reason she wouldn't.

Regarding Anidac research into Simian.  I don't know exactly how she found what she did but I can tell you what I believe now.

I believe based upon the times of the posts and the PV's that Simian was part of ALE taking the statements.  I tend to agree with Grande that it's very possible that Simian was Clyde Burke.  

I also believe that Clyde Burke is likely to have been friends with Gabe Leo and Albert Vrolijk and Jairo Dirkson  It's also possible that Clyde Burke is friends with Ed Smith (Smit) and that's how Ed knew where to video the searches in the first part of June.  

If you seach Clyde's name it appears he was or is in some sort of band in Aruba besides his ALE job.

I do believe that at first Simian was telling us stuff that was actually going on.  Something happened at the end of June and he changed his tune.  Likely he was told to "cover his tracks and coverup".

No, they moved it to the 20th.

I believe Clyde is most likely Simian also. It's logical and the times all line up.

I think Grande is correct.

The fact that Ed would never reveal how he knew where to be always left me thinking he knew a cop. I could never be sure, but that's the impression anyone would get by his silence and the fact that the missing video might never see the light of day... there is something on that video they don't want seen...imo.

CupCakes
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6.gif)(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/drool.gif)(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6.gif)

Thanks Lala's for the hint... :wink:

Hi Monkeys...
Reading behind...
I found a link to the Aruban Police off of the Link AZLady posted
http://www.kparuba.com/
 Ya sure you do..

Something happened on 6-5-2005 with the trolls all appearing on the message boards and Tamara Waldron's first post....someone made a decision to never ever reveal that truth.

I believe they began a concerted effort with anyone that was willing to help spread not only the propaganda but also create diversions all over the island.

Albert and Gabe are most likely small cogs in the network... and maybe even dupes. Gabe doesn't even like the MEP according to him.. so I doubt he would be a willing participant in this shell game involving a human being.

I have never said that all the cops in the ALE are corrupt.. what I did say was there was a battle inside the Blue between the good cops and the bad cops and it looked like the bad cops won.

Now I don't know what the overall manipulation really is... who told who to do what??????

Would this work as a start..  ??(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/kickass.gif)

I'm still laughing    :lol:

Gabe was involved in the MEP.  At one time I actually saw the photos of him when the election was won by MEP.  He may have been going with the flow to stay in their good graces.  

I doubt there will b e anything about the IP info forthcoming...hope I am wrong.  Just let me say that I too requested the info and never received it. Not only does Burke fit the bill for Simian it is perfect in relation to whoever is Shango.  I will brb to show you what I mean...

:lol:  8)  :lol:

PG vraagt advies over dossier feitenonderzoek minister Croes
4 Jun, 2007, 17:26 (GMT -04:00)
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_31220.php
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  ORANJESTAD — Waarnemend procureur-generaal (PG) Nico Jörg heeft zijn collega van de Nederlandse Antillen op Curaçao afgelopen vrijdag om advies gevraagd over het dossier dat is opgemaakt door de Landsrecherche, naar aanleiding van de brief van de AVP-fractie, waarin melding wordt gemaakt van mogelijke corruptie van de kant van minister van Justitie, Rudy Croes (MEP), met betrekking tot verblijfsvergunningen.

Naar aanleiding van de brief van de AVP-fractie – die niet het karakter had van een aangifte van een strafbaar feit – is een feitenonderzoek gestart. Een feitenonderzoek is een onderzoek naar feiten en gedragingen waar mogelijk een strafrechtelijk aspect aan kleeft. Een dergelijk onderzoek kan al worden ingesteld in een stadium dat er nog geen aanwijzingen zijn die een redelijk vermoeden van schuld aan een strafbaar feit oplevert. Een feitenonderzoek kan worden gevolgd door een strafrechtelijk opsporingsonderzoek.

Wat nu voorligt is de vraag of het feitenmateriaal dat tot nu toe is verzameld een redelijk vermoeden van schuld aan een strafbaar feit oplevert, zodat het instellen van een opsporingsonderzoek gerechtvaardigd is, dan wel dat voldoende aanknopingspunten uit het feitenonderzoek naar voren komen om te kunnen en mogen verwachten dat een strafrechtelijk opsporingsonderzoek tot vaststelling en opheldering van een strafbaar feit zal leiden.

VUURLINIE

De reden dat de PG thans voor deze beslissing – die een technisch-juridische beoordeling van de onderzoeksresultaten omvat – advies vraagt aan zijn collega in Willemstad heeft te maken met zijn analyse van de strafwetgeving in Aruba. Verleden week verklaarde Jörg in een interview met de correspondent van de Wereldomroep dat hij van oordeel is dat de Arubaanse strafwetgeving onvoldoende garanties bevat om te voorkomen dat de PG (en daarmee het Openbaar Ministerie) geheel ten onrechte in de politieke vuurlinie komt te liggen.

Veel beter, aldus Jörg, zou het zijn – om het OM te beschermen tegen onterechte beschuldigingen van politieke beïnvloeding – indien ministers of oud-ministers alleen maar zouden kunnen worden vervolgd doordat de politiek daarvoor de verantwoordelijkheid neemt en niet afschuift op de PG. Hij noemt Nederland als voorbeeld, waar zulke beslissingen zijn voorbehouden aan de Tweede Kamer dan wel de Kroon. In Aruba zou een dergelijk systeem volgens Jörg echter nooit voor zittende ministers – die een meerderheid in het parlement hebben – gaan werken. Daarom heeft de hij gezocht naar een ander oplossing.

OPLOSSING

Hij meent binnen de wet, namelijk de Samenwerkingsregeling tussen Aruba en de Antillen, een oplossing te hebben gevonden. De PG’s van Aruba en de Antillen dienen namelijk regelmatig overleg met elkaar te voeren en elkaar van advies te dienen. De PG van de Antillen, die volgens Jörg geheel immuun is voor welke beïnvloeding vanuit Aruba dan ook, en in zijn advies aan de PG van Aruba ook niet kan worden beïnvloed door de regering van de Antillen, is de aangewezen functionaris om het gevraagde advies te geven. Zodoende wordt iedere schijn van politieke beïnvloeding vermeden, schijn die afbreuk kan doen aan het vertrouwen in de onafhankelijkheid en objectiviteit van het Openbaar Ministerie, en daarmee in een goede strafrechtspleging in Aruba in het algemeen.

De PG in Willemstad heeft op zijn beurt het dossier overgedragen aan de advocaat-generaal in Willemstad. Deze wordt gevraagd het advies uit te brengen. De PG van Aruba heeft zich bij voorbaat aan het advies verbonden. Fraude binnen het Ministerie van Justitie moet, zo stelt hij, namelijk sowieso worden vervolgd. Of er voldoende aanwijzingen uit het feitenonderzoek naar voren komen om een opsporingsonderzoek daarnaar in te stellen, moet uit het gevraagde juridisch-technische advies blijken.


Partial translation in babelfish:

PG ask fact research to recommendation concerning file minister Croes

ORANJESTAD - has asked its colleague of the Netherlands Antilles on Curaçao last Friday to temporary Procurator-General (PG) Nico Jörg for recommendation concerning the file which has been made up by the Landsrecherche, as a result of the letter of the avp-fractieavp-fractie avp-fractie, in which report is made of possible corruption of the side of minister of justice, Rudy Croes (MEP), concerning residence permit.

(SNIPPED)

Rudy Croes corrupt?  Say it isn't so!  :wink:

It is also important to note that both Eleye and Colombo were keen to the idea that Simian was involved with ALE.  I know this from personal correspondence with Eleye.  He was saying this from the get go.

Here I thought it was a self reminder of some sort not to cuss or spit in the cage..
Out loud to oneself is expected though.

You are correct Lala's.  I bet those photos are still on his Myspace or Tickle site.

Gabe says his family helped found MEP, something he is very proud of and he is a big supporter of it.

Yes, there are many photos of him with MEP on them and celebrating the MEP victory in the last election.

.

I'm back.  I agree that there was a division very early in this case in the corps of Police.  However, that's not really unusual, as witnessed by the many cases of corruption in police forces all over the world.  What's unusual, I think, is that the corrupt police still hold sway over their fellow officers.  This means that the corruption is very high up in the system and very controlling.  Can you say Rudy Croes?

I'm not gonna speak for Deetch, but he always believed that Shango was FBI.

What exact corruption is Croes involved in? There are so many possibilities, it could almost be everything and anything. That guy is prolly the most crooked Aruba of all time.

lala's --  somewhere in Simian's posts(early ones I think) he admits that he has an 'inside' with the ALE.

(He also says he is South American -- and a graduate of 'collegiate arubano'.)

I guess we're finding out that it was HIM that was inside the ALE :lol:

I have to do the 'dinner' thing. I'll try to find the posts later.  I'm curious about the dates of those posts.

ok, well that makes it more likely he was involved... For some reason I thought he was in the AVP... but according to my memory (if it's workin').. his grandfather and Betico were best friends. So... that's prolly more like it..Betico founded the MEP.

I was wrong about the AVP.. and Gabe.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

This is the first exchange between Shango and Simian.  They clearly know who each other are at this point.  In some ways Simian is egging Shango on with the riddles, even attempting to speak his language eventually.

OK..
I have not done the  Simian    route so bear with me..I'm a little slow(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/oldfart_crossing.gif)

If you assume now that he is/was part of ALE... does what he had to say read any differently?  
If yaknowwhatimean
Just wondering

Lala's, in this exchange, Shango is asking the questions of Simian.  He is asking Simian for information.  I get the feeling that Shango knows Simian has information and is asking him for an update on the situation.

DIRTY HAND>  Tylergal knew all along.  How do I come to this conclusion? Here goes...Shango was indeed a diversion of sorts to confound and confuse.  The MEP party was newly elected, through corrupt means I am sure, and they didn't need this to become what it eventually did.  A trail of corruption for all to follow.  Shango knew there was a cover up and he/she knew the way it went down because Shango had seen it with his own eyes.  He had been involved in it to some extent.  Either by relaying the info as Shango or as having witnessed it first hand.  Shango clearly implicates the 3 perps in the crime.  He just adds to the details in a very colorful and cryptic way.  When another poster says"Hey, I know who Dirty Hand is."  He jumps on it and agrees.  This in turn removes suspicion as to the true Dirty Hand.  We know that Shango claims there are many dirty hands.  Jossy has stated on Dana many times that he does not think van der Straaten is involved and wanted only to help Natalee's family.  I guess we will see.

What occured on June 24th ?   Sorry if this is common knowledge? :oops:

Towards the end of the exchange, Simian warns him, "Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away."  Simian is saying don't ask too many public questions, or I will leave.  He may be referring to himself as the "bird."

Just popping in to say thank you to Klaas and also to Rob, for I'm not sure the exact IP's can even assure us any longer. It's not hard to mask an IP if you have a techie willing to set a route up for you, not to diss what Anidac did nor the mountain of hours she invested - it's just terribly hard for security experts even to uncover all the doors & network pathways within that - and I do speak from experience in that Rick actually worked for some of my clients with those very issues in the last two years of his life. He also worked for one of the largest retailers in the world last year and with a team of 20 to accomplish that and some other objectives related to privacy and data warehousing. It's draining work and even with best practice efforts the trails are very difficult if you know how to create all those doors and twists and turns.

blah  :lol: I agree with your stand on our freedoms buddy, thank you  :D

OldFart, you are obsessed with cupcakes :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Lala's, this analysis makes sense in light of the political and Caribbean references that Shango uses.  He's a young person, very tuned into the Caribbean politics, music, and culture.  He uses these as the foundation of his riddle.  I agree that Shango was hired by the powers-that-be on Aruba as part of the internet misinformation campaign.  It all makes sense.

nice sign   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

You are correct!  I should have clarified a bit further...as you read on..Simian and Shango both learn to speak each other's type of message.  By the end...a Simian and a Shango..both are riddling and speaking plainly.  If you look at what Bleached had of the later posts (regardless of who you think is a real Simian or a doppleganger) you see a more easy style without all the flash and riddles.  Read Merian Ernest...it's a riddle type also, just not as polished as Shango....I said this many moons ago and nobody listened to me.   :roll:  :roll:

So does that mean Gabe Leo is FBI?  :shock:

Do I think Rudy Croes is crooked?  Does a bear poop in the woods?  I always said he was DIRTY HAND.

Only in that we may be able to apply some level of credibility to the posts regarding who was saying what and the direction the investigation was headed.

For a long time we all talked about the infamous Lorenzo.  Much of that was due to the posts below.  If Simian was either ALE or close to someone with ALE, then these posts seem more credible for me.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:48 pm
I am here. Can’t say the things I want…

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:22 pm
This is not my theory. This is for real.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:26 pm
The alibi story is the almost the latest.

The latest is that there’s a gap in the time-line for the boys.

It is true that one of them tried to off himself.


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I did not say an ex. Do you people read? I not into repeating myself.

Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.

From Gabe's tickle site:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/GABELEOMEP.jpg)


http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=mPa1cXbEv_2.arw5

Old Fart, I think the Simian/Shango stuff does read differently if you understand the motives and people behind the postings.  I believe Shango was a large part of the disinformation campaign created to distract and confuse the internet bloggers and readers who were following the case.   Many people believed he had inside information on the case, and he probably did, but I think his motives were the key to how you read his postings.

NoneS
obsessed... NO...
But really good ones do put a smile on my face and give me peaceful feeling.
Once had one that had a Choc/Carmel cream type filling ..  that was just.. a little bit of heaven

at the time we thought Lorenzo was the boyfriend.  now, I believe it was Guido (who Tito said was Lorenzo) because he was taken in about that time.  Do I think Guido was jealous of Natalee?  Do I think he was jealous of Joran? You can answer that.

Shango + Simaon = 2 crocks of shit

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!

I think ArubaGirl once had something on her site.. about his brother being the more corrupt ???

Boy, took forever to get here.

sharon (and maybe Klaas): Link to Voice Print analysis.  We might have it here but if not, maybe Klaas can sticky it.

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-ftopic252.html

LA Times and Renfro :

She's from LA??  Thought she was married to a guy names Drysdale, in FL and skipped town to continue her Windsurfing (and other interests  :roll: ) in Aruba.  There used to be postings from a surfing blog related to this (and other items).  Does she have a link to LA??

She didn't lose interest in September because of Dr. Phil.  She was called out in June of 2005 for inventing misinformation and has continued to post, erroneous and vile information, under the nic of Glenda (mistaking the name of the good witch in the Wizard of Oz...to insult Natalee and her memory).  

And by the way, there was another person, in the room, that also heard Deepak...so there is more than just a tape  :wink: .

I disagree about Simian.  In the beginning he was not a crock of shit.  It wasn't until July of 2005 that some of Simian's posts turned into shit, IMO.

Back to work for me :wink:

2 years since they were posting and yet they ARE STILL DISTRACTING.

Pretty effective.

Okay, here goes another sticky point...hang in there everyone.

Sharon, you are speaking of the part where many thought the Siman in question was actually Arubagirl.  Now, don't anyone get bent out of shape here...we should be able to discuss all aspects.  Many and I do mean many people have sent me tons upon tons of info regarding this little tidbit here.  Let me just say this...if this could be at all possible just exactly how old would Simian be then?  Yes, I have this info and would gladly share it, if it I get the okay to do so.  Everything was public knowledge, yet I really like AG and do not wish to cause her any harm in any way.  So I will see how it goes and if I get the okay, I will show you guys.  I am not trying to be secretive in any way, I too have been on the receiving end of hard drive crashes and threats since I started posting my thoughts on this forum.  I do not wish this upon AG for any reason.

name one thing they have done to help further the case, I cant think of anything

The Dicemen, Rave, House of Rave, Elders = Marvel Comic Book prose.

This leads me to believe the poster is the approximate age of my oldest son who was reading this in the late 90's or in the 27-30 yo range and drawing on his reading experiences with this series.

Does not change anything, just where I think Shango got most of his metaphors.  They are the exact same words and phrases.  Does not alter his intent to either provide information or provide misinformation, just his method.

JMO

Do S&S ever say WTH happened to Natalee and what they did with the body?

I've put it in the Important Case Document area:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=1187

I'm not saying Simian furthered the case.  What I'm saying is that Simians posts in June 2005 appear to be true based upon the PV's we now see.  So Simian was telling the truth in June 2005.

I have to respectfully disagree. While some of the info may not have panned out-gaps in the timeline, searches, events were sometimes first given as clues by Shango/Simian. I also don't believe either were paid for false information. Tito I might suspect, among others.

Exactly

So basically, your saying Simian could be anyone on the island who could see or hear what was going on but doesnt necessarily know anything that the rest of us dont know?

Yes

I dont think they wee getting paid for anything, I think they were just nutjobs on drugs typing crap to mess with us

Give me the brief version.

NO - have you looked at Simians posts in late June 2005 and compared them to the PV's taken at that time?  Several of Simian's posts match up almost identical to the subject in the PV's.  I believe Simian was a member of ALE and he was telling us what was going on, until he was told to STOP.

And only told us things that we were going to find out anyway?  


 I think that is all wrong about the boyfriend earlier in the week because they were on the island only 83 hours including sleeping time when Natalee disappeared and that is lame attempt is  cast blame on someone other than J2K.  There was no boyfriend earlier in the week and they did not spend that much time in the casino as there was not much time open to do so.

So what am I missing here?  Why should we believe him when this lie is very glaring and obvious?  

Was this a deliberate attempt to distract?  Must have been because how could he get it so wrong accidentally?

.

.

.

lila, Sidallee, Ree

No mistake.  Renfro got caught giving the misinformation.  The inspection was at 7am and this is Julia/Glenda's report at 12:44.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKeZljVeFU

.

Nothing significant as far as I could tell.  The 26th was a court appearance for JP2k + Steve Croes.  Paulus and Steve were both released that day.  May be a reference to this, imo.

Yup - it was no misunderstanding  :wink:

Report Conclusions:

LVA data outputs and analysis indicate Joran Van der Sloot is deceptive and inaccurate in his account of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

LVA data outputs and analysis indicates Joran Van der Sloot is deceptive and inaccurate in his account of the role he played in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

 Joran indicates PROBABLE FALSE / DECEPTION INDICATED and INACCURACY / HIGHLY SUSPECT for DECEPTION data outputs on the relevant questions about ‘harming’ and ‘seeing Natalee in distress’ respectively. These responses are not consistent with truthful and accurate responses and deserve the greatest scrutiny.

Joran Van der Sloot should be considered a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The 3 perps never took Natalee to the beach.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:06 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?

What and Where?  I must have missed that part.

.

I am trying to look at this with an open mind but I just aint convinced yet.

What did this guy/girl have to gain by giving somewhat cryptic clues to some internet bloggers?  What could the bloggers do with any clues he was giving?

If he had some real inside info that could help the case but was afraid of the rest of the ALE, why wouldnt he go to the family, the FBI, the Dutch, Interpol, MSM, a lawyer, someone with power?  The MSM and family had detectives an searchers all over that island, why wouldnt he go to one of them?  Why type out cryptic seemingly nonesense on the internet if he wanted to be taken seriously?

Buckeye, I could kiss your feet.

That could mean they didn't bury her in the sand.  But it doesn't tell me what happened to her and what they did next.

Grande
Thanks... I was wondering what the 10 days ment.. which would have started (two down) been the 23rd or 24th ??

Diandra was one of the original Simian's doppleganger's (Someone posting as Simian on the FP, clearly different tone and rhetoric) IMO.

What this is telling us is the direction the investigation was headed.  I do believe they questioned someone that Natalee may have spoken to in the casino, but not a 'boyfriend'.  I think they were trying to put some pieces together.

me too, please show us !

Columbian necktie??  No job??  Maybe he knew things weren't right "in the office" and he was hoping the message would get out without leading back to him.  Maybe he was upset with his boss because he wasn't getting overtime pay, so in his mind, he was screwing him....who knows...it's a crazy place.

BLAH - Simian was not cryptic in June 2005.  Shango was and I'm not sure what Shango's motivations were.  To me the Simian posts in June 2005 are pretty straight forward.

Yes.

 :wink:  :wink:

OK.   I'll ask again.

What happened to Natalee and what did they do with the body according to S&S?

.

where are Simians non-BS posts, is there a link to them?

The 23rd is when Paulus was picked up and detained because of the gap in the timeline,

Waiting for a call…
 
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:56 pm
There is a gap in the stories between father and son.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:57 pm
I mentioned yesterday that there is a gap in the timeline. Where’s Jake?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:58 pm
One of the Kalpoes might be let go. Can’t confirm.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:03 pm
The gap is in the timeline. Phone records. Log-on times on PC’s.

What we don’t know yet is what The Hague has found.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

That's the second time I read that and I know nothing more than I did before I asked.

are these the quotes Rob just quoted in the post above?

But all I see is a little info as to who was being questioned and released during that small time slot before the false simians took over, not the answer to what happened to Natalee and where she is now located.

I have read this stuff a hundred times, too.  So instead of people just saying they tell all, please spell it out for those of us who are S&S challenged and don't see it at all.

.

Blah - a bulk of Smians posts are at the top in this thread (although many have just been posted here as well):

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=281

Okay, From my first take on this, it sounds like The Darksiders setting up what is to be one of their theories on this case.
That Natalee was with the blue eyed Dutchman or that One of the Mountain Brook boys killed her, either one out of jealousy.
The timeline is messed up and the events are ridiculous. They couldn't have happened.
Of course, its possible, if Simeon was ALE, that the theory ALE was trying to put forth was that a Mountain Brook boy killed her.
At least that is what it sounds like to me.

I suppose you could say neither said the exact location, just hints.  For instance...

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

We have been all over this passage many times...I still assert it references the possibility of her being in the water.  I know, I know. JMO. :roll:

Simian began posting in response to some of the 'sold into slavery' theories.  I think he/she was defending not just Aruba, but those involved in the early stages of the investigation.  As things began to unfold and the obvious 'screw-ups' were pointed out, Simian spend less time defending and more time sharing.

Yes, I would just like the abbreviated translation of the stuff that tells what and where.  Many have invested several hours going through all the posts, so it would be helpful if one of them would just boil it down into simple English.

Grande.. Klaas... anyone have any idea which station Burke worked at?

He sounds .. to me at least.. that he is waiting for some info from another station.

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke,
respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps
Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime
District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a
suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was:
Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT,
born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court)
and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT
was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT has asked if his council
Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also
requested by his council. This request was denied.
His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting
officers and goes as follows:

“To you question what I can declare with regards to me being
arrested as a suspect of accessory to murder, manslaughter and
robbing someone of their freedom with death as the result, I can
state the following. I find this totally ridiculous and absurd.

To your question what level of ridiculousness this reaches,
I can state the following. I am of the opinion that my arrest
reaches the highest possible levels of ridiculousness and absurdity.

To your question whether I picked up Joran on the 30th
of May 2005, in the early morning hours, I can state the following.
I have previously stated that I had picked up Joran on Sunday
May 29th at approximately 23.00 hours near Mc Donalds. Subsequently
I woke up at that Monday morning at approximately 05.45 hours. In
the hours between I had gone to sleep and I did not hear Joran
leaving or hear him return home. 05.45 hours is the normal time for
the alarm to go off and I wake up. The children I wake up at
approximately 06.00 hours. I awakened Valentijn, Sebastian and Joran.
To your question whether it was difficult to wake up Joran on that
Monday morning, I can state the following. It is always difficult
to wake up Joran..."

AND THEN 35 minutes later this was posted on the SM FP

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm (15:05)
"If you were asleep who answered your phone?"

Then on June 24th this post…

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm "...Based on my
knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour
specialists?"  

This happens to be just prior to the June 24th Police car confrontation that
resulted in the transcript we have all seen.

Interesting...I have always interpreted this to mean she was not in the ocean...where the buoy would toll.  Like...not building sandcastles.

IMO what Shango tells us is that answers can be found by questioning the croupier (Guido) regarding events of the night. I still am one who believes that Natalee was targeted for a specific reason, don't know that exact reason PVDS, video porn, SoulBeach after party, but Natalee died before the full extent for which she was intended was realized.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:32 pm
THE DRAX SCORES
drax Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles=
they weren’t on the beach?
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music