Lively Case Discussion #634 6/4 - 6/5/2007

[Anna]

Does anyone have the email address of the LA Times Ombudsman?  I don't think writing to the author of the article will do any good as she is not going to tattle on herself.  We need to do that for her.  

I see this as a deliberate attempt to get Aruban propaganda out there to sully the jury pool.

Is there any verification from the MB kids that Natalee was "supine on the bar" doing the now famous jelly shots?  I do not recall reading that from anybody except the suspects AND their attorney.

I have no problem with her doing that just want it verified by her friends and not just J2K's word for it.

.

[Lala'sMom]

Morning monkeys.  Only here for a little while.  Has anyone seen Grande this morning.  I have a question for him.  

Tylergal...my first question would be why does Joran say "two dogs" and then there is no follow up questions from ALE.  It's not that Joran is lying again.  It's the fact that ALE didn't even ask for clarification.  I do however realize that maybe they were trying to allow him to talk and talk until they could get him on something. Seems the more he talks it's only the monkeys that can see his web of lies unfolding.  

That Times article is just as one should expect from them.  Not only are they woefully uninformed, they, like ALE, didn't ask the follow up questions.  

I truly have almost given up hope...I really have...sorry to be so depressing this early in the day.

[Tylergal]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!

The more Nurse Ratchett speaks/writes, the more she exposes herself to investigation, perhaps not by those who would serve on a jury as we have seen in recent years in famous California trials, they are nothing but a long vacation of illiterates who are bestowed the title of "jurors" rather than jurors who are "trial by peers."  We have lost the jury in this country, particularly in California,  because we allow jurors who are the lowest common denominator of society, but those who would be consumers of Aruban travel will be able to see through this  and see through this shrew of a woman.

[Anna]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!

We PROVED that with the Murder and Crime Thread which has been viewed by over 27,000 hits.  One person even asked MsMarple if we had a GRANT to do that research, haha.

No grant, just determination and hard work by those who scan the papers daily for the reports of the rampant crime on One Happy.  No one is going to make me believe that just started after Natalee disappeared!  What a crock, innocence!  That is one of the least innocent places on earth with the Caribbean basin having the second highest crime rate in the world.

.

[Tylergal]

Morning monkeys.  Only here for a little while.  Has anyone seen Grande this morning.  I have a question for him.  

Tylergal...my first question would be why does Joran say "two dogs" and then there is no follow up questions from ALE.  It's not that Joran is lying again.  It's the fact that ALE didn't even ask for clarification.  I do however realize that maybe they were trying to allow him to talk and talk until they could get him on something. Seems the more he talks it's only the monkeys that can see his web of lies unfolding.  

That Times article is just as one should expect from them.  Not only are they woefully uninformed, they, like ALE, didn't ask the follow up questions.  

I truly have almost given up hope...I really have...sorry to be so depressing this early in the day.

My guess would be ALE knew who/what he meant by two dogs.  Perhaps what we are seeing is for public consumption and does not even resemble the true statements which might be chucked away in someone's portfolio for safekeeping but we know these statements are meant to implicate the two illiterate Kalkpoes whose brain must be so microscopic they keep gouging for it but cannot find it, otherwise, they would have sunk Joran by now.

Julia Renfro is trying to put a good spin on a turd, implying that it can be picked from the clean side.  That turd is Aruba.

[BTgirl]

Julia Renfro is trying to put a good spin on a turd, implying that it can be picked from the clean side.  That turd is Aruba.

     

[Easywriter]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!

We PROVED that with the Murder and Crime Thread which has been viewed by over 27,000 hits.  One person even asked MsMarple if we had a GRANT to do that research, haha.

No grant, just determination and hard work by those who scan the papers daily for the reports of the rampant crime on One Happy.  No one is going to make me believe that just started after Natalee disappeared!  What a crock, innocence!  That is one of the least innocent places on earth with the Caribbean basin having the second highest crime rate in the world.

.

I agree.  Their problems did not just begin two years ago.  There has been a concerted effort to mask the real Aruba in order to attract tourist that might fear some of the other Caribbean destinations.  They goofed when they decided a cover-up was the way to go.

[Tylergal]

Easy, I trust you are going to send to LA Times that which you indicated you would.

Anna, could you and Mrs Marples kindly send them a link to the Crime thread?

I think Klaas has the time line of all the events which Li'l Puma was requesting.

It is my opinion that if you send too much, you will be ignored.  Why do I think this?  I have seen it occur too many times with newspapers and TV broadcast journalists.

Although I may disagree with Bill O'R on many things, agreeing to keep it short and pithy is best.  No one any longer pays staff to sit and read ramblings all day, particularly in this case which they see as affecting one  missing white  girl.  What these instant gratification newspapers fail to grasp, is that this is just one species of bacterium to which we are being exposed on a daily basis, stalking of women, rape and murder, drugging and deceit and when it happens by its most prominent citizens on a small island, it festers like a sore on the rear end of a lanky goose.

[Lala'sMom]

Well, Aruba can spin all it wants.  Once Deepak is on the witness stand and has to tell the truth he will crack.  He can't explain all the lies without slipping up.  There are way too many.  It doesn't matter what he tries to say, he will never be able to explain a few of his choice statements.

[Mere]

Anna....your quote as follows...

"Is there any verification from the MB kids that Natalee was "supine on the bar" doing the now famous jelly shots? I do not recall reading that from anybody except the suspects AND their attorney."

I have never read anything definitive about this from a person who could be trusted....and I can't imagine it happening....!

[Mere]

I did write the author of the article the following letter....

Good morning....I know that your mailbox will be filled with responses to your article as there are many who either do not agree with you or who feel that you are writing without full information.  I am not the one to judge, but I would like to link you to www.scaredmonkeys.net and to some of the material they have developed (or have provided from other sources) over the past two years.  If you have time, it may be an eye-opener.  
 
Thank you, Mere
 
Important Case Documents:  http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewforum.php?f=6

[Easywriter]

Easy, I trust you are going to send to LA Times that which you indicated you would.

Anna, could you and Mrs Marples kindly send them a link to the Crime thread?

I think Klaas has the time line of all the events which Li'l Puma was requesting.

It is my opinion that if you send too much, you will be ignored.  Why do I think this?  I have seen it occur too many times with newspapers and TV broadcast journalists.

Although I may disagree with Bill O'R on many things, agreeing to keep it short and pithy is best.  No one any longer pays staff to sit and read ramblings all day, particularly in this case which they see as affecting one  missing white  girl.  What these instant gratification newspapers fail to grasp, is that this is just one species of bacterium to which we are being exposed on a daily basis, stalking of women, rape and murder, drugging and deceit and when it happens by its most prominent citizens on a small island, it festers like a sore on the rear end of a lanky goose.

I've seen it too and it is a waste of time.  Might help people feel better to vent, but it falls upon deaf ears, blind eyes, etc. and it won't get published by a paper like that.

[Tylergal]

I'm not going to waste my time writing to the L.A. Times.  We should all just bombard them with Joran's book, PV's and interviews, starting with the most recent one in Panorama.

Excellent idea as these paint a picture and a picture is worth a thousand words.  Corny, but true.

Isn't it funny that she leads off her article with that "end of innocence" BS? lol  Like that island was just bobbing around in the ocean with no problems and then along came Natalee.  It wasn't an end of innocence.  It was an exposure of the reality that the island was upset about!

We PROVED that with the Murder and Crime Thread which has been viewed by over 27,000 hits.  One person even asked MsMarple if we had a GRANT to do that research, haha.

No grant, just determination and hard work by those who scan the papers daily for the reports of the rampant crime on One Happy.  No one is going to make me believe that just started after Natalee disappeared!  What a crock, innocence!  That is one of the least innocent places on earth with the Caribbean basin having the second highest crime rate in the world.

.

I agree.  Their problems did not just begin two years ago.  There has been a concerted effort to mask the real Aruba in order to attract tourist that might fear some of the other Caribbean destinations.  They goofed when they decided a cover-up was the way to go.

I no longer have the posts from Charles Croes in this regard, Easy, but I hope someone has held onto them,  for he clearly indicates in March 2005, before Natalee Holloway was a household name that these shenanigans were being carried out and tourists were being stalked, even n the Aruban boards.  So, it would only take his own words from before Natalee to hang him on some of his more recent statements.  He goes from sounding like a concerned citizen to a gentle stalker.

[Vicki]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Ok dokey there buttafly; Ms Williams can draw her own
conclusions and since Julia is noted as being originally from Los
Angeles, it could be that Ms Williams and Julia are friends  

I e-mailed Ms Williams as I said earlier and if she chooses to read the
transcripts of Beth Twitty with Robert Jensen as well as what Rep Bachus
had to say about the case, she will have further insight into the FACTS
in this case.

I'll bet Williams' inbox is jammed today[/quote


Ill bet her inbox is overloaded....I wrote her and told her Julia was a known liar and thats why I call that vile place LIERUBA cause thats all they do there.

[Easywriter]

Some of these so-called journalists just use the case of Natalee Holloway as a vehicle to express some problem they have with some portion of society.  They have no interest in facts that might detract from the purpose of their BS.  As soon as one of them starts in with the “missing white woman syndrome” they lose my respect, because it is clear they do not understand the intricacies of this particular case.  Nor do they understand why it is so compelling to so many people.

I would rather read more about the “lying Dutch boy syndrome” or the “lying woman with a vendetta syndrome.”

[Tylergal]

I just wanted to ask this before I go, has anyone heard from Peaches or Sunfreak in the last couple days?  I always look forward to Peaches' early morning posts and I missed her today and I miss Sunfreak.  I want to take a minute to say a prayer for them and get my laundry done as it has been calling me since early a.m.  We had the kids fresh in from Orange Beach and Seaside this weekend, and we met other relatives from other poarts and we all attended a baseball game.  Clothes and towels are piled up like car wrecks on Aruba, and it beckons me to clean it up.

[robots]

i think the "came with 2 dogs"

might be translated incorrectly


could it have been

"came with 2 BITCHES"

who were the 2 BITCHES ????

ANITA and ????????????????????????????????


heheheeheheheheehheheeehh

[Peaches]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Ok dokey there buttafly; Ms Williams can draw her own
conclusions and since Julia is noted as being originally from Los
Angeles, it could be that Ms Williams and Julia are friends  

I e-mailed Ms Williams as I said earlier and if she chooses to read the
transcripts of Beth Twitty with Robert Jensen as well as what Rep Bachus
had to say about the case, she will have further insight into the FACTS
in this case.

I'll bet Williams' inbox is jammed today

LA is a big place.  Judging by the wrinkles and sun damage, I'd say Julia has been gone a long time.

[msmarple]

To respond to the LA Times article that Hotshot posted on Page 1 of this thread --

Letters to the Editor --

If you would like to make a comment about a specific news article, editorial or commentary and have it considered for publication in the newspaper as a Letter to the Editor, please send it to letters@latimes.com -- send well-written individual letters only; no group e-mails. Do not send attachments. (Letters regarding Orange County issues specifically should be sent to ocletters@latimes.com.)

Letters should be brief, and may be edited. They become the property of The Times and may be republished in any format. Please include your full name, mailing address and daytime phone number (your number will not be published). For complete guidelines, call (800) LATIMES, Ext. 74511.

Readers' Representative Office

If you have questions or concerns about The Times' journalistic standards and practices (such as story coverage in general), or if you believe we have made an error, then please submit your comment to the Readers' Representative Office instead. Thank you

Link to Readers Representative Office (referenced above):

http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-readersrep-cf,0,3057606.customform
Gives you an email template type thing.

Writer of the article:
carol.williams@latimes.com

I did a quick search - this Carol Williams seems to do a lot of stories out of Miami. Probably the Caribbean too.

DO WRITE!

[Peaches]

Hi Tyler!  I'm trying to work and catch up at the same time.  

It's a beautiful day in GA.