Lively Case Discussion #593 3/26 - 3/29/2007

[JusticeforNatalee]

"There is not much I can do because I don't even know the names of the partys or a case reference"

Couldn't Victor just guess at a few of the obvious names and see if any info comes up?

[klaasend]

Regarding the decision today in the Netherlands regarding Joran's book.  Victor had posted no information was allowed to be revealed.  DUGO, who is Dutch just posted this:

Not revealing anything, if there has been a verdict, is not allowed. Check Artikel 28 Rv. At least an anonymised excerpt should be avbailable. There is not much I can do because I don't even know the names of the partys or a case reference

Posted by Victor at FOB in response to Dugo's post above:

I know, and that is why I don't understand what is going on. It was an open hearing, I was told the names, the case number, that I could attend it that Monday at 10 am and so on. Later I was told the ruling would be May 29 at 15:00 and that I could have it by 15:15. But today after the ruling something changed, I am not sure why but in short nothing is allowed to be reveiled.

I mentioned prior that I would do an anonymised version, but they are not allowed to give out anything.

You can call the Court tomorrow Dugo.

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Klaas ithe State Department warning on Aruba still available as I remember it from a previous post! I might be able to use it!

Use what?  I'm only on my 2nd cup of coffee here?

There was a warning published by US State Department on Safety in Aruba and other islands! Someone posted it on Monkeys and I was trying to find it!

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

SAFETY AND SECURITY: There are no known extremist groups, areas of instability or organized crime on Aruba, although drug trafficking rings do operate on the island

No the one I was looking for! The one I remember talked about the flow of drugs thru Aruba to caribbean and the USA! I think it also mention cruise ships?

Thanks anyway!

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Klaas ithe State Department warning on Aruba still available as I remember it from a previous post! I might be able to use it!

This may be what you are asking for:

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

Thanks! There was another one I was looking for!

[klaasend]

Klaas ithe State Department warning on Aruba still available as I remember it from a previous post! I might be able to use it!

This may be what you are asking for:

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

Thanks! There was another one I was looking for!

How about this one?

http://www.state.gov/p/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2006/vol1/html/62108.htm

(snipped)

Aruba. Aruba is a transshipment point for heroin, and to a lesser extent cocaine, moving north, mainly from Colombia, to the U.S. and secondarily to Europe. Drugs move north via cruise ships and the multiple daily flights to the U.S. and Europe. U.S. agencies reported more than 100 kilograms of heroin seized in the U.S. that had originated in Aruba. Drugs entering the U.S. from Aruba were not in sufficient an amount to have a significant effect on the U.S. As a result of the successes in Curacao during 2005, traffickers looked for other transit points in the region which included Aruba.


While Aruba enjoys a low crime rate, reporting during 2005 indicates that some prominent drug traffickers are established on the island. Additionally, Arubans worry about the easy availability of inexpensive drugs. The most visible evidence of a drug abuse problem may be the homeless addicts, called "chollars" who number about 300 and whose photographs routinely appear in publications to increase public awareness to drug abuse and to stem an increase in crime. Drug abuse in Aruba remains a cause for concern.




(snipped)

[Kimmy53]

Regarding the decision today in the Netherlands regarding Joran's book.  Victor had posted no information was allowed to be revealed.  DUGO, who is Dutch just posted this:

Not revealing anything, if there has been a verdict, is not allowed. Check Artikel 28 Rv. At least an anonymised excerpt should be avbailable. There is not much I can do because I don't even know the names of the partys or a case reference

Posted by Victor at FOB in response to Dugo's post above:

I know, and that is why I don't understand what is going on. It was an open hearing, I was told the names, the case number, that I could attend it that Monday at 10 am and so on. Later I was told the ruling would be May 29 at 15:00 and that I could have it by 15:15. But today after the ruling something changed, I am not sure why but in short nothing is allowed to be reveiled.

I mentioned prior that I would do an anonymised version, but they are not allowed to give out anything.

You can call the Court tomorrow Dugo.

I wonder if the Judge may have put a "gag" order on this because if the ruling was released, it may compromise an ongoing investigation???

[Dayhiker]

Regarding the decision today in the Netherlands regarding Joran's book.  Victor had posted no information was allowed to be revealed.  DUGO, who is Dutch just posted this:

Not revealing anything, if there has been a verdict, is not allowed. Check Artikel 28 Rv. At least an anonymised excerpt should be avbailable. There is not much I can do because I don't even know the names of the partys or a case reference

Thinking on this from another angle, do you suppose this information is being withheld because it has evidentiary value, something the Dutch investigators in Natalee's case do not want out?

[igsigs]

Regarding the decision today in the Netherlands regarding Joran's book.  Victor had posted no information was allowed to be revealed.  DUGO, who is Dutch just posted this:

Not revealing anything, if there has been a verdict, is not allowed. Check Artikel 28 Rv. At least an anonymised excerpt should be avbailable. There is not much I can do because I don't even know the names of the partys or a case reference

- Still sticking with Spong/Guido being the chink in the armor here.

- Medley says the excerpts are Joran's. That is a statement against interest so i tend to think it true.

- FOB is a mess. Working with and speaking for the Sloots has been a dead-end game since June 05. Most knew, but it seems some are just finding out.

[klaasend]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

[San]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

[Dayhiker]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

Confusing to me too, San. It was supposed to be open court, how could one lawyer change that? It seems to me the content of the hearing would have to be sensitive to keep it from the public.

[igsigs]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

IF the court ruled in favor of Guido to keep his name out of the book then maybe the judge decided that making the ruling public would negate the intent of the decision?  Total guess.

[klaasend]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

Confusing to me too, San. It was supposed to be open court, how could one lawyer change that? It seems to me the content of the hearing would have to be sensitive to keep it from the public.

Well if Victor is wrong then one of the Dutch posters will get the information out of curiosity.

[klaasend]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

IF the court ruled in favor of Guido to keep his name out of the book then maybe the judge decided that making the ruling public would negate the intent of the decision?  Total guess.

Except that the ruling could be made public and the name remain annonomous.

[klaasend]

Why doesn't Victor simply contact the publisher and see what they tell him  

[igsigs]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

IF the court ruled in favor of Guido to keep his name out of the book then maybe the judge decided that making the ruling public would negate the intent of the decision?  Total guess.

Except that the ruling could be made public and the name remain annonomous.

True. Maybe there is haggling over whether initials can be used. We know who everyone is. Except A.B. .

[klaasend]

Slight modification  

[oldfart]

Hi Monkeys

Peeking in from work..

Got my monkey digits crossed  hoping someone went to court to be a wittness for the CROWN.

Not very much chance of it happening  BUT  then again I can hope.

Catch all Later

SeeeYaaaByeee

[Kimmy53]

Victor seems very confused about the "gag" order.  I don't know what to think.  It could be like Dayhiker says or it could be Spong flexing his muscles.

How does one lawyer have that much power Klaas.  Spong is being paid a lot of money but then again so are many other top notch lawyers.  What makes him different that he could get the court not to release any information.

I know that atleast here in the US, high powered lawyers do have some influence but I think the judges KNOW they have the upper hand, no matter who the lawyer thinks he is.  I've seen alot of high powered lawyers get a dressing down from judges- just for the judges to let them know who's really in charge.  

There again - that's here, not the NL

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Klaas ithe State Department warning on Aruba still available as I remember it from a previous post! I might be able to use it!

This may be what you are asking for:

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

Thanks! There was another one I was looking for!

How about this one?

http://www.state.gov/p/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2006/vol1/html/62108.htm

(snipped)

Aruba. Aruba is a transshipment point for heroin, and to a lesser extent cocaine, moving north, mainly from Colombia, to the U.S. and secondarily to Europe. Drugs move north via cruise ships and the multiple daily flights to the U.S. and Europe. U.S. agencies reported more than 100 kilograms of heroin seized in the U.S. that had originated in Aruba. Drugs entering the U.S. from Aruba were not in sufficient an amount to have a significant effect on the U.S. As a result of the successes in Curacao during 2005, traffickers looked for other transit points in the region which included Aruba.


While Aruba enjoys a low crime rate, reporting during 2005 indicates that some prominent drug traffickers are established on the island. Additionally, Arubans worry about the easy availability of inexpensive drugs. The most visible evidence of a drug abuse problem may be the homeless addicts, called "chollars" who number about 300 and whose photographs routinely appear in publications to increase public awareness to drug abuse and to stem an increase in crime. Drug abuse in Aruba remains a cause for concern.




(snipped)

Thanks Klaas! It is the one I was looking for!