Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[Scandi]

.... At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

What happened to the boy who went missing is unclear.

Carol Moulton said the kids were supposed to report to their classes and be divided into small groups of a few students each. Each group was supposed to tour the science fair with a chaperone. Afterward, when they returned to their classes for roll call, Kyron wasn't there, she said.

After leaving the school, Terri went about her day, running errands and taking care of household chores. She is a former elementary school teacher and has worked as a substitute teacher at various schools, but Moulton said that in recent years she has mainly been a stay-at-home mom...

Some of the people interviewed in the beginning of the case, acquaintances and family, gave their recollections and stories based on what Terri had told them.

Accounts like what good friends Terri and Desiree were before Terri snatching Kaine away.

Now we know Terri just snatched him while Desiree was pregnant and unaware of what was going on, until after the fact... and, according to some reports, that Terri and Desiree hadn't even been friends.

Good morning all, I hope this day finds you well and happy. The problem I have with all of these quotes in print from other people that Terri told her account to, is that they change. Terri has not told the same version to anyone, including LE. Truth is consistent. There is a little boys life at stake yet you cannot get your story straight. That is what pulled me off the fence way back when this all started.
Ispy you bring up some very valid points. If the entire morning was based on Kiara being sick, the doctors appt. for Kiara, etc. Where is the proof of the doctor appt.? If you are going out of your way to go to two different stores to purchase the medication, is that in your account for the morning routine? Why not pick up the project? If you have time to go to a gym with a sick child in tow , you can pick up the project and Kyron as well. Great points again Ispy.

Going back to the first day when Kyron was going to see the cool electric project and then waiting by the South door, waiting for who?
If Kyron was having mini seizures don't you think his teacher would have picked up on them?
Was someone messing with his head in that home? Was someone drugging him? If Kyron was sold to a human trafficking group, where is the money?

MB    Maybe all didn't go as planned.  They got Kyron and she didn't get the money !!!  If they were suppose to meet for the payoff say at Freddies after they had the child and they didn't show, maybe Terri panicked and thought they went to the wrong Freddies so she drove to the other store.  They weren't there either.  By this time she was in shock, Kyron gone and her stiffed so she tried to go where she thought they might be.  She calls Dede to help her get the mustang, in tandem they drive up Germantown rd to Skyline, down Newberry, didn't see the buyer's car, then headed to SI where she knew the buyer had friends and she might see their vehicle there - driving wildly with whoever had helped her get the mustang, crazy realizing how this had turned into one big screwup.

I actually believe it could have gone down like this with everything I have read on this case.  Amn I going  , that is Monkey crazy?   lol

[Brandi]

Kyron Horman billboards being taken down

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-billboards-being-taken-down-103401444.html

PORTLAND, Ore. -- For the past three months, Kyron Horman's photo has been a fixture on Metro area billboards. As the search for the missing boy stretches into its fourth month, those billboards have been gradually replaced in the past few weeks to make way for new advertising.

Clear Channel donated the billboard space and materials for 30 billboards back in June. The billboards went up all over town, written in Russian, Spanish and English, asking for help in finding Kyron Horman.

The Skyline Elementary student disappeared from school on June 4th and still hasn't been found.

For those who live and work near the billboards, Kyron's photo was a constant reminder of this heartbreaking case.

"Just looked at that and it just broke my heart, you know, thinking nobody can find him" said Barb Sloan, whose office window looked directly out at one of the billboards.

Not all of the billboards featuring Kyron have come down. At least a half-dozen of the billboards still stand, encouraging people to call with information about the missing boy.

[Scatty]

I know this has been gone over time and time again but that mini seizure story is a real clincher for me of Terri's culpability. If you think a child is prone to a petit mal seizure, wouldn't you take him to a doctor asap the first time it happened? Wouldn't you tell his father, mother, stepbrother, busdriver, teachers, anyone who might have contact with him? Would you want this child unattended for one second, until he has gotten on some medication? Would you want him outside at recess, let alone taking the bus home without any other adult knowing about this condition?  He. Never. Had. Seizures.
The only reason to fabricate something like this is to lay the groundwork for something happening to him while he was supposedly in this state.

[Monkey King]

Hey Scandi~

We can always switch you out with this guy and put you in time out if you need a breather, and a banana of course! 

[BabsKats]

O/T - Have wanted for a long time to give a SPECIAL thank to Novella, for her service to our wonderful country - God Bless America and our giving Service Men & Women - Hope your life has settled down, and you have found peace in your life......

[Puzzler]

Kyron Horman billboards being taken down

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-billboards-being-taken-down-103401444.html

I would think those billboards would be a great way to get Kyron's face out there and to "keep reminding" the public that he's still missing.

Could the funds that have been donated to foundation Kaine set up to help find Kyron, be used to keep the billboards, or at least some of the billboards up?

 

[no rose colored glasses]

Kyron Horman billboards being taken down

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-billboards-being-taken-down-103401444.html

I would think those billboards would be a great way to get Kyron's face out there and to "keep reminding" the public that he's still missing.

Could the funds that have been donated to foundation Kaine set up to help find Kyron, be used to keep the billboards, or at least some of the billboards up?

 

Good question, everything always comes down to money.

[Scandi]

Hey Scandi~

We can always switch you out with this guy and put you in time out if you need a breather, and a banana of course! 

LOL  I think I'll survive to Sleuthe.  What I'm thinking now is my thoughts make the scenario too complicated although we have 2.5 hours to work with.  Is it possible this case could have gone down in a much more simple way?

[Puzzler]

From OregonLive

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said.

Now this is from Terri's mother so I believe that's what Terri told her. But Terri's tale is slightly off. If Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class, that would seem she was walking him to class. Why then would Kyron say, "I'm going back to the classroom, Mom"?
They were already close, why would he stop her, and even so, why wouldn't she take him right to the classroom? Three good reasons: Lies, fibs and fabrications.

Could have been a simultaneous type thing..you know..Kyron's mentioning he's going back to his room and Terri's walking him down the hall.

[Puzzler]

Wyks is correct about a few of us who are sitting back reading and biting our tounges in regards to our personal thoughts regarding this case.
(I think she knows quite a few of us quite well actually lol.)
 

I continue to believe that Kyron is still alive.
I feel that this case and Kyron's disappearance is the result of a powder keg like affect that was brought on by several very selfish, ignorant and corrupt individuals. (That is me putting it nicely.)
It's as nice as I can afford.
That's pretty much all I can add to the discussion right now.

Well, that and to the person(s) responsible for Kyron's disappearance:
It's time to let Kyron be found. Drop him off at a Church, firestation, hospital, or school etc... Let Kyron go.

All JMVHO
~Peace

Love the analogy to a "powder keg"...IMO...it fits.

[Kokos Cat]

Koko.. God bless you and your daughter and Thank God you got away.   

I hate to hear about these stories, but it's good we do, to keep these type of things in the limelight, hopefully get some changes in our laws, among putting child predators away for life, 1 strike, yoouuuuurrr ouuuttt! Period!  And I don't find this off topic, as these are the type of things that  brings us all together and makes us such a well versed group to work with and that is our life experiences, and each of our specialized expertise which can help us understand why or why not on many things, such as Terri not appearing to fight to high heaven for her daughter.  Not, that we are aware of, at least.  I personally, could NOT keep my mouth shut for my childrens sakes and like you, have a problem with lying ( it's a shame, honest people suffer for doing the right thing, go figure).  So "I" personally do not understand why she isn't doing something to get her daughter, unless she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on and there is more info. she doesn't want brought out publicly, OR elsewhere.

Hi, Dihannah!

Thanks so much for your empathy and putting this into perspective for me.  And, also, this is priceless:  reminding me how we each add an element of value to this case with our experience and talent.

The strange thing about Kyron's case for me seems to be the "more I learn, the less I know"!  What's really weird is this applies in spades to this particular aspect of this case.

My situation has helped me to understand (or think I MAY understand, If I were them, which THANK YOU GOD, I am not) why both Terri and Kaine may be doing what they are doing (or not doing).
Does this make any sense?

In other words: 

I understand why Terri tried to get her daughter back.  I understand that she had checked the law and found out what I found out.... i.e. no divorce=no custody order=no abduction.  So she knew the law.  But, I think she found that out after Kaine did.  He grabbed Kiara first.  Neither one of them was capable of abducting their own child as long as they were both married to each other. 

I also understand, on the surface, why Kaine acted as he did. 

I understand why Terri is not speaking, too (legal council) , and why she is not pursuing visitation with Kiara.  She cannot guarantee the safety of her own life at this point, much less the safety of her child.  Besides, I'm sure Kaine acquired a guardian ad litem for Kiara and given the situation, I don't how much of a shot she'd have at visitation (though, in all likelyhood she would have some).  Even if visitation were granted?  Her life is in danger whenever she walks out the door.

Anyway, it goes on and on.... but does it get Kyron back?  Maybe only if, IMO, we can look deeply into all the possible motivations for ALL the players, including LE.  It's a tangled web, and is getting very sticky and dangerous. 

I haven't read the documents and I don't know if I ever will.  (Well, I probably will).  But all that really matters to me is getting Kyron back.  So, I guess the timeline is important to me. 
But looking at it from my stand point, I see that I "understand" ??? (this is definitely not the right word here).... err.... I can comprehend ??? why maybe both Kaine and Terri have taken the actions that they have taken.  Maybe.  But, I guess until I can figure out how that helps to point us in Kyron's direction, I'm just gonna have to keep trying NOT to get so tangled up in it all, and to keep brushing away the cobwebs. 

Thanks, Di, for your encouragement!

Keep on, Monkeys!   

K. Cat

[Puzzler]

O/T - Have wanted for a long time to give a SPECIAL thank to Novella, for her service to our wonderful country - God Bless America and our giving Service Men & Women - Hope your life has settled down, and you have found peace in your life......

O/T thank you Novella for serving our country and fighting for our rights...like the freedom to post on this forum on the interent.  Thank you so very much.

Keep  for clues t find Kyron!

[Puzzler]

Hey Scandi~

We can always switch you out with this guy and put you in time out if you need a breather, and a banana of course! 

LOL  I think I'll survive to Sleuthe.  What I'm thinking now is my thoughts make the scenario too complicated although we have 2.5 hours to work with.  Is it possible this case could have gone down in a much more simple way?

Scandi, the answer is yes...simple...that's always the more likely scenario.

[Kokos Cat]

 

Good afternoon, Monkeys!

  I'm way way waaaaaaaaaaay behind on the reading from BEFORE I started chattering, nonstop, last night (even after I had said goodnight:  still muttering and chattering.  Thinking.  Gnashing, grinding tee-ee--eeth!)
 
  And, now, I'm starting off reading today by sticking my paw in and pulling out whatever post I come up with, first! So, I apologize in advance for the seemingly random replies that I'll undoubtedly be giving in no particular order.  Whew. 

  To complicate matters I'm wearing my White Rabbit disguise AGAIN today.  So.  I'M LATE! and my pop in and out between important dates!

  I just hope I can finish reading/responding before the thread is locked because I have no idea how to pull quotes from old threads.  Anybody? 

Carry on,  I'm right behind you.... I've got your back, Monkeys!



Cheers,

K. Cat

[Monkey King]

They always say Occam's Razor-Occam's Razor.

I've tried to see what could be the simplest explanation vs the more complicated theories.  Today, I am still stuck back at the school.  (see my post on page #25 posts #498 & #499)
MK

[Puzzler]

Koko.. God bless you and your daughter and Thank God you got away.   

I hate to hear about these stories, but it's good we do, to keep these type of things in the limelight, hopefully get some changes in our laws, among putting child predators away for life, 1 strike, yoouuuuurrr ouuuttt! Period!  And I don't find this off topic, as these are the type of things that  brings us all together and makes us such a well versed group to work with and that is our life experiences, and each of our specialized expertise which can help us understand why or why not on many things, such as Terri not appearing to fight to high heaven for her daughter.  Not, that we are aware of, at least.  I personally, could NOT keep my mouth shut for my childrens sakes and like you, have a problem with lying ( it's a shame, honest people suffer for doing the right thing, go figure).  So "I" personally do not understand why she isn't doing something to get her daughter, unless she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on and there is more info. she doesn't want brought out publicly, OR elsewhere.

Hi, Dihannah!

Thanks so much for your empathy and putting this into perspective for me.  And, also, this is priceless:  reminding me how we each add an element of value to this case with our experience and talent.

The strange thing about Kyron's case for me seems to be the "more I learn, the less I know"!  What's really weird is this applies in spades to this particular aspect of this case.

My situation has helped me to understand (or think I MAY understand, If I were them, which THANK YOU GOD, I am not) why both Terri and Kaine may be doing what they are doing (or not doing).
Does this make any sense?

In other words: 

I understand why Terri tried to get her daughter back.  I understand that she had checked the law and found out what I found out.... i.e. no divorce=no custody order=no abduction.  So she knew the law.  But, I think she found that out after Kaine did.  He grabbed Kiara first.  Neither one of them was capable of abducting their own child as long as they were both married to each other. 

I also understand, on the surface, why Kaine acted as he did. 

I understand why Terri is not speaking, too (legal council) , and why she is not pursuing visitation with Kiara.  She cannot guarantee the safety of her own life at this point, much less the safety of her child.  Besides, I'm sure Kaine acquired a guardian ad litem for Kiara and given the situation, I don't how much of a shot she'd have at visitation (though, in all likelyhood she would have some).  Even if visitation were granted?  Her life is in danger whenever she walks out the door.

Anyway, it goes on and on.... but does it get Kyron back?  Maybe only if, IMO, we can look deeply into all the possible motivations for ALL the players, including LE.  It's a tangled web, and is getting very sticky and dangerous. 

I haven't read the documents and I don't know if I ever will.  (Well, I probably will).  But all that really matters to me is getting Kyron back.  So, I guess the timeline is important to me. 
But looking at it from my stand point, I see that I "understand" ??? (this is definitely not the right word here).... err.... I can comprehend ??? why maybe both Kaine and Terri have taken the actions that they have taken.  Maybe.  But, I guess until I can figure out how that helps to point us in Kyron's direction, I'm just gonna have to keep trying NOT to get so tangled up in it all, and to keep brushing away the cobwebs. 

Thanks, Di, for your encouragement!

Keep on, Monkeys!   

K. Cat

Kokos Cat - I think you laid out the complicated web fairly simply.  The unknown is "what" was Terri or Terri/Kaine involved in that has created this horrific event in their lives.  Either they have lead their lives in such a manner that it has brought devastation to their doorstep OR they are victims of a stranger abduction and because of that, LE is all over their lives and all the nasty parts are being discovered.

In the last press conference, LE seemed almost to be bursting at the seams in wanting to give out some of the details they've uncovered.  They did the best the could with comments like: you'll be surprised, things we didn't want to know, know things we wish we didn't know, how much stress has been put on staff, more investigations will come out of this, other government agencies will be advised, etc. 

IMO, this is NOT a simple case and if I believe LE's comments, it's very complex.  I got the feeling watching the press conference, that it's almost overwhelming to LE.

[Puzzler]

I meant to add, Kaine having the same reaction as it was all in Terri's head, and Kyron didn't have an issue. 

Once it came to the school's attention Kyron had a Dr. appt and the teacher had to monitor him, which I'm sure Ms. Porter shared with staff- he disappeared.

Allegedly, Terri had the discussion on Thursday about the Dr. appointment.  I do not remember the source of that statement, I want to say it came from Terri's camp early in the investigation.  I will try and locate it later on today.

The Dr. had to be aware of Terri's allegations of seizures, becaue Terri supposedly gave Ms. Porter documentation she was supposed to fill out while she monitored Kyrons behaviour at school.

I've never been clear on the "reason" for the doctor's appointment.  Terri talked about Kyron acting odd for a couple of weeks.  Where did the word "seizures" come from?  Terri? Or could it be that Terri had already taken Kyron to a doctors (perhaps family doctor) before and discussed Kyron's actions with that doctor.  Maybe that doctor suggested "seizures" and so an appointment was made to go see a "specialist".  Or...maybe the doctor was the kind of doctor what would work with Kyron to to evaluate his actions. 

Or, maybe Kyron was simply going for a regular check-up.  Or to the eye doctor. 

However, with the supposed paperwork from the doctor for the teacher to complete, it does sound like there had been a previous vist or previous visits to the doctor.  In that case, I can't believe that Kaine wasn't aware of the doctor visit(s).  Maybe he didn't agree that Kyron has something going on, or maybe it simply that with Kaine being so intelligent himself - he wouldn't want to consider that his son may have some kind of problem.

Question: some have said that Terri had just started making this up about Kyron...but...wouldn't she have had to previously taken Kyron to the doctor in order to get paperwork for the teacher to complete?

[Monkey King]

I meant to add, Kaine having the same reaction as it was all in Terri's head, and Kyron didn't have an issue. 

Once it came to the school's attention Kyron had a Dr. appt and the teacher had to monitor him, which I'm sure Ms. Porter shared with staff- he disappeared.

Allegedly, Terri had the discussion on Thursday about the Dr. appointment.  I do not remember the source of that statement, I want to say it came from Terri's camp early in the investigation.  I will try and locate it later on today.

The Dr. had to be aware of Terri's allegations of seizures, becaue Terri supposedly gave Ms. Porter documentation she was supposed to fill out while she monitored Kyrons behaviour at school.

I've never been clear on the "reason" for the doctor's appointment.  Terri talked about Kyron acting odd for a couple of weeks.  Where did the word "seizures" come from?  Terri? Or could it be that Terri had already taken Kyron to a doctors (perhaps family doctor) before and discussed Kyron's actions with that doctor.  Maybe that doctor suggested "seizures" and so an appointment was made to go see a "specialist".  Or...maybe the doctor was the kind of doctor what would work with Kyron to to evaluate his actions. 

Or, maybe Kyron was simply going for a regular check-up.  Or to the eye doctor. 

However, with the supposed paperwork from the doctor for the teacher to complete, it does sound like there had been a previous vist or previous visits to the doctor.  In that case, I can't believe that Kaine wasn't aware of the doctor visit(s).  Maybe he didn't agree that Kyron has something going on, or maybe it simply that with Kaine being so intelligent himself - he wouldn't want to consider that his son may have some kind of problem.

Question: some have said that Terri had just started making this up about Kyron...but...wouldn't she have had to previously taken Kyron to the doctor in order to get paperwork for the teacher to complete?

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Q: Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?

A: KAINE – THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE APPOINTMENT but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.

So~ Kaine WAS AWARE of the Dr. appt.

[Puzzler]

Another scenario is what if someone at the school was "grooming" Kyron?

Sheriff Staton has said several things which could indicate this was something that originated at the school.  (We would think about this afterwards, we would be surprised, they know things they wish they didn't know, there could be other cases and that other government agencies would need to be notified)

Terri noticed strange behavoir of Kyron, about 2 weeks prior to his disappearance (?).  Someone at the school may have been drugging him over a period of time.

Since Terri spent the most time with Kyron, she would be the one to notice the changes.  Desiree wouldn't see these changes as they would have occured during the school week when Kyron was at Kaine's house.  Kaine, would have about the same reaction- as he was not a witness to this odd behaviour, he was at work.

A simple explanation would be that someone in the crowd the morning the school was open to visitors for Kyron to be simply wisked away.  Even more simple if it really had nothing to do with either Terri or Kaine.  Could be a perfect stranger; could be a school employee or a parent.  Could be someone who volunteered for cleanup & repairs on May 2 (this one does bother me, especially because of the cleanup of the lockers and office areas in the basement).

A simple explanation would be someone wisked Kyron into a room or container (maybe drugged by placing a cloth over his face) and Kyron was removed from the school after classes were over and teachers gone.  There was plenty of time to remove Kyron from the school before LE got there late in the evening.  In that scenario, I would think about a school employee...someone that other employees are used to seeing at the school and not think anything about that person being there at the end of the day.

 

[Puzzler]

I meant to add, Kaine having the same reaction as it was all in Terri's head, and Kyron didn't have an issue. 

Once it came to the school's attention Kyron had a Dr. appt and the teacher had to monitor him, which I'm sure Ms. Porter shared with staff- he disappeared.

Allegedly, Terri had the discussion on Thursday about the Dr. appointment.  I do not remember the source of that statement, I want to say it came from Terri's camp early in the investigation.  I will try and locate it later on today.

The Dr. had to be aware of Terri's allegations of seizures, becaue Terri supposedly gave Ms. Porter documentation she was supposed to fill out while she monitored Kyrons behaviour at school.

I've never been clear on the "reason" for the doctor's appointment.  Terri talked about Kyron acting odd for a couple of weeks.  Where did the word "seizures" come from?  Terri? Or could it be that Terri had already taken Kyron to a doctors (perhaps family doctor) before and discussed Kyron's actions with that doctor.  Maybe that doctor suggested "seizures" and so an appointment was made to go see a "specialist".  Or...maybe the doctor was the kind of doctor what would work with Kyron to to evaluate his actions. 

Or, maybe Kyron was simply going for a regular check-up.  Or to the eye doctor. 

However, with the supposed paperwork from the doctor for the teacher to complete, it does sound like there had been a previous vist or previous visits to the doctor.  In that case, I can't believe that Kaine wasn't aware of the doctor visit(s).  Maybe he didn't agree that Kyron has something going on, or maybe it simply that with Kaine being so intelligent himself - he wouldn't want to consider that his son may have some kind of problem.

Question: some have said that Terri had just started making this up about Kyron...but...wouldn't she have had to previously taken Kyron to the doctor in order to get paperwork for the teacher to complete?

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Q: Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?

A: KAINE – THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE APPOINTMENT but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.

So~ Kaine WAS AWARE of the Dr. appt.

Good one...thanks for the link.