Natalee Case Discussion #839 6/14/10 - 6/17/10

[San]

We have Anita who is a teacher who raised a psycho murdering son.  Anita works with kids.

Then we have Joran's friend on Nancy Grace talking about his friend Joran the psycho and even smirking.  His mother too I believe is a teacher and works with kids.

Would you want these ladies teaching your kids.

San that's was just sticks with me in such a horrible way, to know the mothers of these maniacs are teaching youth? It's a travesty.

After seeing that idiot on TV last night I just shook my head.

[BUCKSHOT]

Joran probably runs through a best case scenario for himself:
(1) Flores family agreeing to lighter sentence.
(2) Aruba prosecutes him for involvement in NH death. His role in it is likely to change.
(3) US backs off of him with their case,
**All of the above involve factually verified information as to events leading to death of NH and exact whereabouts.

I think Joran has a few problems, in thinking this.
(1) His crime will not go completely unpunished in Peru prison system. Crime in Peru=Time in Peru.
(2) Peru will not be stupid enough to release him to Aruba. Sends wrong message that murder is not stricylt punishable offense.
(3) His laptop, once forensically examined, may give them the information they need, anyway.
**Joran and Aruba need each other too bad, in this situation. Just like two bank robbers need each other when caught. The need for Aruba to speak with/interrogate Joran speaks volumes. They need to line up their stories. Aruba might need to tell Joran where they buried the bodied without implication themselves. Aruba is 100% in damage control mode. They must be thinking "What has Joran told them already? What does that dumbass have on his computer? I hope Peru sees that the two criminals (Joran and Aruba) need to be separated, not brought together. I hope Peru can see through this smoke screen. Will be interesting to watch play out.

[Tater]

I am a little troubled by stephany's brother saysing they don't care where Joran is imprisoned.

Did anyone catch exactly what he said?

It's like the difference between hell and Club Med!

I am hoping the Flores will DEMAND that Joran serve only in Peru.  Aruba will be fiving him weekend passes and every accommodation possible.

Be like free rent for Joran in Aruba.


.

Anna, he didn't say that they didn't care where Joran was imprisoned. He was making the point that regardless if Joran wanted to serve his time in Aruba, or if the US imprisoned him on their charges, or Peru imprisoned him for the murder charges - that ultimately Joran should not be walking the streets period.

Thankyou for clarifying this.I was trying so hard to understand him,I was losing what he was saying..  I for one,hope he stays right where he's at instead of the other options..

[Port Valerie]

I am a little troubled by stephany's brother saysing they don't care where Joran is imprisoned.

Did anyone catch exactly what he said?

It's like the difference between hell and Club Med!

I am hoping the Flores will DEMAND that Joran serve only in Peru.  Aruba will be fiving him weekend passes and every accommodation possible.

Be like free rent for Joran in Aruba.


.

Anna, he didn't say that they didn't care where Joran was imprisoned. He was making the point that regardless if Joran wanted to serve his time in Aruba, or if the US imprisoned him on their charges, or Peru imprisoned him for the murder charges - that ultimately Joran should not be walking the streets period.

He also made quite a point saying that you cannot make deals with somebody like that -- that is, Joran. You can't trust them, he said. He was talking about Beth's "sting" over the extortion effort.

[Blue Moon]

I am a little troubled by stephany's brother saysing they don't care where Joran is imprisoned.

Did anyone catch exactly what he said?

It's like the difference between hell and Club Med!

I am hoping the Flores will DEMAND that Joran serve only in Peru.  Aruba will be fiving him weekend passes and every accommodation possible.

Be like free rent for Joran in Aruba.


.

There was a caption at the bottom of the screen that the Flores family is not against a plea deal for Joran.  I am worried also.

[Port Valerie]

I can't bear to watch Greta tonight. I hope someone reports here if she does anything on this case.

[klaasend]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Netherlands have a statute of limitations on murder. I recall it is 8 years. if they wait 3 more years to talk with Joran they will have nothing to talk about. He will be free of charges.

Natalee wasn't murdered in the NL she was murdered in Aruba.  As I understand it there is NO statute of limitations on MURDER in Aruba BUT, how are you going to prove murder now?  The most he would get is manslaughter or accidental death and by Aruban standards he would likely be sentenced to time already served.  The only thing we need out of Aruba is Natalee's body.

Joran can rot in hell for all I care.  If he happens to survive his sentence in Peru then we can press the extortion and fraud charges in the US. 

[klaasend]

I can't bear to watch Greta tonight. I hope someone reports here if she does anything on this case.

I'm watching the Lakers kick Boston butt (up by 20 at the half). 

[San]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Netherlands have a statute of limitations on murder. I recall it is 8 years. if they wait 3 more years to talk with Joran they will have nothing to talk about. He will be free of charges.

Yes Spock but Aruba makes their own rules.  So will they leave this case open until he gets out and then they say hey we want him here first.  So let's just say Peru ships him to Aruba to face a charges that we all know will be fake.  They get Joran there and they say we have no evidence of a crime so Joran can go free.  Is Aruba going to hand Joran over to the United States.  Who gets Joran first.

Also, wasn't Joran 17 at the time Natalee was murdered.  Does that play a part.

I'm just throwing stuff out here.

[Port Valerie]

I can't bear to watch Greta tonight. I hope someone reports here if she does anything on this case.

I'm watching the Lakers kick Boston butt (up by 20 at the half). 

May they keep it up!

[texasmom]

We have Anita who is a teacher who raised a psycho murdering son.  Anita works with kids.

Then we have Joran's friend on Nancy Grace talking about his friend Joran the psycho and even smirking.  His mother too I believe is a teacher and works with kids.

Would you want these ladies teaching your kids.

Absolutely not!

[BUCKSHOT]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Netherlands have a statute of limitations on murder. I recall it is 8 years. if they wait 3 more years to talk with Joran they will have nothing to talk about. He will be free of charges.

Natalee wasn't murdered in the NL she was murdered in Aruba.  As I understand it there is NO statute of limitations on MURDER in Aruba BUT, how are you going to prove murder now?  The most he would get is manslaughter or accidental death and by Aruban standards he would likely be sentenced to time already served.  The only thing we need out of Aruba is Natalee's body.

Joran can rot in hell for all I care.  If he happens to survive his sentence in Peru then we can press the extortion and fraud charges in the US. 

Sad to hear Beth, possibly Jug, utter in shear desperation.
"All we want is to respectfully bury our daughter. They can do whatever they want in Aruba. Just give us our beloved daughter back"

That is very sad...

[texasmom]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Netherlands have a statute of limitations on murder. I recall it is 8 years. if they wait 3 more years to talk with Joran they will have nothing to talk about. He will be free of charges.

Natalee wasn't murdered in the NL she was murdered in Aruba.  As I understand it there is NO statute of limitations on MURDER in Aruba BUT, how are you going to prove murder now?  The most he would get is manslaughter or accidental death and by Aruban standards he would likely be sentenced to time already served.  The only thing we need out of Aruba is Natalee's body.

Joran can rot in hell for all I care.  If he happens to survive his sentence in Peru then we can press the extortion and fraud charges in the US. 

I agree.

[Tater]

I can't bear to watch Greta tonight. I hope someone reports here if she does anything on this case.

I'm listening while reading here and it's boring..Nothing so far...

[Anna]

Joran would get more time in prison for the extortion charge in the US than a murder conviction in Aruba.

At least Beth got that Ace in the hole to fall back on if all else fails in Aruba.

.

[San]

Joran probably runs through a best case scenario for himself:
(1) Flores family agreeing to lighter sentence.
(2) Aruba prosecutes him for involvement in NH death. His role in it is likely to change.
(3) US backs off of him with their case,
**All of the above involve factually verified information as to events leading to death of NH and exact whereabouts.

I think Joran has a few problems, in thinking this.
(1) His crime will not go completely unpunished in Peru prison system. Crime in Peru=Time in Peru.
(2) Peru will not be stupid enough to release him to Aruba. Sends wrong message that murder is not stricylt punishable offense.
(3) His laptop, once forensically examined, may give them the information they need, anyway.
**Joran and Aruba need each other too bad, in this situation. Just like two bank robbers need each other when caught. The need for Aruba to speak with/interrogate Joran speaks volumes. They need to line up their stories. Aruba might need to tell Joran where they buried the bodied without implication themselves. Aruba is 100% in damage control mode. They must be thinking "What has Joran told them already? What does that dumbass have on his computer? I hope Peru sees that the two criminals (Joran and Aruba) need to be separated, not brought together. I hope Peru can see through this smoke screen. Will be interesting to watch play out.

I agree Buckshot.

[Tater]

Joran would get more time in prison for the extortion charge in the US than a murder conviction in Aruba.

At least Beth got that Ace in the hole to fall back on if all else fails in Aruba.

.

Well I for one am believing Jorans due is coming and it's going to happen in Peru..The Peruvians are very aware of the magnitude of this case as it's worldwide news.They have egos too..jmo

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73938.php

Google translation:

Lawyer Joran late fall case

June 15, 2010, 13:46 (GMT -04:00)

Email this article 
Print this article 

ORANGE CITY / LIMA - Máximo Altez, Peruvian lawyer of murder suspect Joran van der Sloot, will soon withdraw from the case. This is because his family has fallen into trouble. This was announced by the Peruvian radio station RPP yesterday afternoon.

According to the family of Joran Altez comes this week to Peru to find a new lawyer. Even Greta Van Susteren, a reporter for U.S. network Fox, said Anita van der Sloot, Joran's mother, arrives Wednesday in Lima. Joran is stuck in Peru since June 4. There he is now charged with the murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30 Pending the trial he sits down in the infamous Castro Castro high-security prison north of Lima. The living conditions in this prison are reportedly "miserable".

Dave Holloway, father of Natalee Holloway on the island. According to the Associated Press (AP) he talks today with the Aruban Public Prosecutor (OM) and the police. Advocate General Taco Stein could not confirm this morning. "I do not know, but I'm also not the entire OM," said the AG. Joran's father hopes that the authorities here has given or gives information about the disappearance of Natalee in 2005. This is Dave, according to Tim Miller told AP, a friend and founder of Texas EquuSearch. Search & Rescue This group has in recent years repeatedly to the body of the missing Natalee found. Miller said the killing of Flores, five years after the demise of the then 18-year-old Natalee, has opened old wounds. "He is very sad," Miller said. "If the Arubans had done their work, Joran would have spent in prison and Stephany was still alive."

Peru
Taco Stein scheduled for today to contact the Peruvian OM to talk about Joran. "We have a telephone appointment for this afternoon." He further explains that the "get to Aruba," the suspect Joran not yet at issue. Not only because this legal snags, but also because the question is, what advantage is to get justice here. "Even if we find Natalee's body, we must wait and see what forensic evidence there is out there." The AG explained that the "lose a body" is only one offense. "Before we obviously do not recall him. But this is all speculation. If we have him here would want to get it to Peru is to allow this. "


Caught abroad
Currently there are approximately 2500 Dutch stuck in foreign jails. Most of this is down for drug trafficking. This is available on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Ministry plays a mediating role especially for Dutch detainees and prisoners abroad. This includes reporting the arrest of family, passing on messages, mediate the transfer of money for a lawyer and for necessary purchases in prison. Moreover, the Netherlands (local) authorities accountable for humane treatment of prisoners. In the event of a complaint about treatment in detention must show that person is treated worse than other prisoners in the same prison. The embassy or consulate informs Dutch about the local legal system, including details on legal aid, procedures for prosecution, remand, bail and appeal.

[texasmom]

I don't know if it's new or not but Greta's showing video of Joran getting locked in his cell "minutes from now".

[seemeatthebeach]

It sounds like Peru isn't going to allow Aruba to get near Joran until he is sentenced....

Netherlands have a statute of limitations on murder. I recall it is 8 years. if they wait 3 more years to talk with Joran they will have nothing to talk about. He will be free of charges.

Yes Spock but Aruba makes their own rules.  So will they leave this case open until he gets out and then they say hey we want him here first.  So let's just say Peru ships him to Aruba to face a charges that we all know will be fake.  They get Joran there and they say we have no evidence of a crime so Joran can go free.  Is Aruba going to hand Joran over to the United States.  Who gets Joran first.

Also, wasn't Joran 17 at the time Natalee was murdered.  Does that play a part.

I'm just throwing stuff out here.

IIRC Joran being 17 does play a part, as does the statute of limitations which is 8 years I think in Aruba.
The US and Peru has an extradition treaty.....I'm thinking we would get Joran before Aruba as there is no treaty with Aruba, and there are current charges for extortion. I'm no legal beagle so I could be completely wrong. LOL