Lively Case Discussion #642 6/19 - 6/20/2007

[sharon]

But the worst (and most obvious) part -- was that the trolls had more rights and a more 'open forum' than the family supporters.

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/fieldguidetotrolls.htm

The Martialist - Phil's  field guide to trolls .. version 5.11

omigod Rob    

Thanks for that.

I've 'met' most of those    

[San]

Good Morning!

Going to be a long day so better have your morning coffee.




I have a hard time wrapping my mind around Court TV doing anything that is not the Aruban/AHATA line because of their close connection to not only Steve Cohen who was the one to open the cell door for Joran but also Joe Tacopino but guess we shall see.  Maybe the entire island will sue CTV!

Also, it is just unseemly in my opinion for a step parent to try to appear to be running things.  I would feel the same if Jug started issuing instructions.  There are two biological parents involved and I would feel more comfortable following their lead considering that there have been questions in the past concerning motivation.

But be that as it may, if the boycott was the right thing last week, it is this week unless I have missed something major like the recovery of Natalee and arrest of suspects, etc.

I would boycott any resort area where a U.S. citizen disappears and proper procedures, at least minimal ones, are not followed.  It's my right as an American and as a consumer to decide this for myself.  AFAIK, nothing has changed to cause me to stop doing so.

Off to early morning appointment. . . . .

I agree Anna.  When I first read that post at BFN I was so mad.  Then I thought about it and said to myself I don't have to do what they say.  This is America and I do what I believe is right.  Aruba supported a crime against an American girl and I have every right not to go to their island and inform as many people of the corruption/murders and especially rapes against young American girls who are being targeted by their locals.  How many times have we watched Aruba slapped this family in the face and shown how much they really do hate Americans.  There will be traitors in every country and Aruba just happens to have a few of ours.  Well guess what?  They can keep them we don't want them back.   The Julia Renfro's, Mark Purcell's and the POS Michael Posner can all rot on that island as far as I'm concerned.

[yapperz1]

Morning Monkeys

San, I too will continue to tell everyone I meet not to go to Aruba. It is not safe to travel there.

Also just heard on Fox that  TES are going to join the search for Jessie Davis in Ohio.

[nonesuche]

yea you tell em San  

[Rob]

My opinion is most people do not even know about the boycott. I wish more did, but the bottom line is most I have spoken to have never even heard of the voluntary boycott.

They got their info from Greta the Slag and other MSM outlets and just decided they didn't want to have anything to do with the bumblin desert cops.

Why go there with the stench of corruption all over the place when they could just as easily go somewhere else and not have to worry.

It's not that the boycott didn't make in-roads, because it did, especially during the travel shows that Richard, *******, Vicky and Hot Shot attended. In my opinion, this did more in a short period of time than all the other efforts put together.

But most are not even aware the boycott existed.

Michelle has had her site for almost two years and she has 153, ooo hits. That's not really that many when you factor in it's been 20 + months.

It's a good thing to educate people, but they can only be educated when they are receptive to the knowledge. Some just put their fingers in their ears like Joran and say  - La La La La La.

I would say this, would you take your kids to Bogata? or Caracas? prolly not. Those places are not safe.

If people are going to go to Aruba before they right the ship, then they have their own motives and they have to live with them should something bad happen.

At this point I don't think first time travelers are going to Aruba in the numbers they did at one time. This is the share of the market that is showing up as the decline.

People still going to Aruba have timeshares and are stuck with them. Use them or lose them.

I know one guy that has been going to Aruba for 27 years. He's not going to stop no matter what... unless he dies.

There are alot of people like that, and they can get by on those people. But they can't see the growth they need to borrow money from the IMF or WB. If you are showing an increase in tourism of 15% per year, you can borrow a like number. Without those numbers Aruba is left to flounder with no growth. They are stagnant.

So in a sense the boycott does work, but it doesn't stop long time travelers to Aruba from continuing to travel there. That is where the damage would have occurred should that have happened.

It's always been a personal issue and some are not going to change their lifestyle no matter what. It would take a series of incidents like Natalee to open all the eyes needed to really make a difference. And most don't see the other cases and the on going corruption the way we do.

[Tamikosmom]

Was watching the morning news and they had an interview with the young actress that will be playing the roll of Natalee Holloway in an upcoming Court TV made for TV movie.  The actress said it was an emotional experience for her and that the whole crew felt disturbed after shooting the rape scene and demise of Natalee.

I get the feeling that no one is very concerned about repercussions coming from the main suspects in all of this.

Aruba is not going to be happy about this nor will JVDS & the Kalpoes.  They have gone on TV repeatedly to say they have never touched Natalee.  Gee I wonder if the Kalpoes will sue Court TV for ruining their POS lives.

Steve Cohen ... the Aruban spokesperson whose hiring by the ATA was for the sole purpose of assuring that the "truth" was proclaimed in the media ... stated that two of the suspects had sex with Natalee.  I assume that he had a foundation from which he derived his words.

Janet


Steve Cohen
Caribbean Voice
January 18, 2006

Aruba stays afloat through Natalie Holloway's investigation
By Hazel Heyer

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - ... Aruba believes it is most important to get a hold of her mental state and most importantly, Natalee's physical state at the time of disappearance. "Two of the boys said they had consensual sex with her. Whether consensual or not, depends on her ability to be conscious and make a choice," said Cohen

[San]

Morning Monkeys

San, I too will continue to tell everyone I meet not to go to Aruba. It is not safe to travel there.

Also just heard on Fox that  TES are going to join the search for Jessie Davis in Ohio.

I'm glad they are going Yap.  Her boyfriend did it.  They were saying on the news last night that when her mom last talked to her daughter the night she went missing the daughter said the baby's father was coming over to pick him up.  They asked the boyfriend and of course he said no he said he was picking up the baby in the morning   Liar.

[GreatOwl]

I have asked this question over a year and a half ago, but will ask again.  Why has nobody objected to the behavior at "Carlos & Charlies" and why isn't there a boycott of a business corportaton which condones such behavior taking place in its premisis.  I am not talking of just Aruba.  I have witnessed the same type of come on in other places besides Aruba.  Locals do promote free access of party teens, especially female, and even offer to meet them there.  I have been on tours or at events where locals offer free admission tickets and offer to buy drinks.  I know many of these teens are not of age.

Is boycotting a corportation that difficult?

[San]

Was watching the morning news and they had an interview with the young actress that will be playing the roll of Natalee Holloway in an upcoming Court TV made for TV movie.  The actress said it was an emotional experience for her and that the whole crew felt disturbed after shooting the rape scene and demise of Natalee.

I get the feeling that no one is very concerned about repercussions coming from the main suspects in all of this.

Aruba is not going to be happy about this nor will JVDS & the Kalpoes.  They have gone on TV repeatedly to say they have never touched Natalee.  Gee I wonder if the Kalpoes will sue Court TV for ruining their POS lives.

Steve Cohen ... the Aruban spokesperson whose hiring by the ATA was for the sole purpose of assuring that the "truth" was proclaimed in the media ... stated that two of the suspects had sex with Natalee.  I assume that he had a foundation from which he derived his words.

Janet


Steve Cohen
Caribbean Voice
January 18, 2006

Aruba stays afloat through Natalie Holloway's investigation
By Hazel Heyer

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - ... Aruba believes it is most important to get a hold of her mental state and most importantly, Natalee's physical state at the time of disappearance. "Two of the boys said they had consensual sex with her. Whether consensual or not, depends on her ability to be conscious and make a choice," said Cohen

I remember this and soon after that was when we hardly heard from Steve Cohen anymore.

[San]

I have asked this question over a year and a half ago, but will ask again.  Why has nobody objected to the behavior at "Carlos & Charlies" and why isn't there a boycott of a business corportaton which condones such behavior taking place in its premisis.  I am not talking of just Aruba.  I have witnessed the same type of come on in other places besides Aruba.  Locals do promote free access of party teens, especially female, and even offer to meet them there.  I have been on tours or at events where locals offer free admission tickets and offer to buy drinks.  I know many of these teens are not of age.

Is boycotting a corportation that difficult?

No boycotting a corporation isn't that difficult.  From the picture someone posted the other day CnC's is still up to their old tricks in pouring drinks down these youngs kids throats.  That needs to be stopped.  CnC's was partly responsible for what happened to Natalee by letting in an underaged drinker into their establishment.  I also blame the bartenders because I believe they spiked Natalee's drink.

[GreatOwl]

your response illustrates my point.  everyone is thinking Aruba.  The Groupo Anderson corportation is world wide.  You wish to let people know of coportate policy then start posting flyers in areas world wide including all the locations in the United States.  This would bring a greater awareness of the voluntary boycott.

[BTgirl]

(snipped)

It's always been a personal issue and some are not going to change their lifestyle no matter what. It would take a series of incidents like Natalee to open all the eyes needed to really make a difference. And most don't see the other cases and the on going corruption the way we do.

Another aspect of all this is that most people who spend a lot of time in Aruba are probably not putting themselves in danger the way the average tourist does, so they don't see that aspect of it. There are parts of Aruba that have very expensive homes/condos where people probably feel very safe. I don't imagine many of those people spend a lot of time hanging out with the tourists at places like CnC.

I spend a lot of time in England, and I feel extremely safe when I go there. Of course, I'm with friends/family in pretty nice places. If I were to go to England and hang out in the worst parts of London, I would probably be able to tell some hair-raising stories of what a dangerous place it is. Since I don't go to places like that, though, I don't see that side of things. I imagine that's how many long-time visitors view Aruba.

[San]

your response illustrates my point.  everyone is thinking Aruba.  The Groupo Anderson corportation is world wide.  You wish to let people know of coportate policy then start posting flyers in areas world wide including all the locations in the United States.  This would bring a greater awareness of the voluntary boycott.

You are right.  People are concentrating on Aruba because the crime happened there and we watched a government cover it up.  We sort of have tunnel vision in this regard.  It would be a good idea to boycott The Groupo Anderson Corporation or at least let people know what one of their establishments did.  If it is happening in Aruba it is happening everywhere.

[LilPuma]

My opinion is most people do not even know about the boycott. I wish more did, but the bottom line is most I have spoken to have never even heard of the voluntary boycott.

They got their info from Greta the Slag and other MSM outlets and just decided they didn't want to have anything to do with the bumblin desert cops.

Why go there with the stench of corruption all over the place when they could just as easily go somewhere else and not have to worry.

It's not that the boycott didn't make in-roads, because it did, especially during the travel shows that Richard, *******, Vicky and Hot Shot attended. In my opinion, this did more in a short period of time than all the other efforts put together.

But most are not even aware the boycott existed.

Michelle has had her site for almost two years and she has 153, ooo hits. That's not really that many when you factor in it's been 20 + months.

It's a good thing to educate people, but they can only be educated when they are receptive to the knowledge. Some just put their fingers in their ears like Joran and say  - La La La La La.

I would say this, would you take your kids to Bogata? or Caracas? prolly not. Those places are not safe.

If people are going to go to Aruba before they right the ship, then they have their own motives and they have to live with them should something bad happen.

At this point I don't think first time travelers are going to Aruba in the numbers they did at one time. This is the share of the market that is showing up as the decline.

People still going to Aruba have timeshares and are stuck with them. Use them or lose them.

I know one guy that has been going to Aruba for 27 years. He's not going to stop no matter what... unless he dies.

There are alot of people like that, and they can get by on those people. But they can't see the growth they need to borrow money from the IMF or WB. If you are showing an increase in tourism of 15% per year, you can borrow a like number. Without those numbers Aruba is left to flounder with no growth. They are stagnant.

So in a sense the boycott does work, but it doesn't stop long time travelers to Aruba from continuing to travel there. That is where the damage would have occurred should that have happened.

It's always been a personal issue and some are not going to change their lifestyle no matter what. It would take a series of incidents like Natalee to open all the eyes needed to really make a difference. And most don't see the other cases and the on going corruption the way we do.

Well said, Rob.  ITA.  While I would respect a request by Dave and Beth to not talk of a boycott of Aruba, I would still discourage people from going there.  Natalee's disappearance showed us what Aruba is all about in so many different ways.

[Mere]

Fox just reported that two members of TES are in Canton, Ohio....waiting to talk to police about how they may help.  Good people...!

[LilPuma]

Carpe sent me this - I forgot to post it when I saw it yesterday and I don't think I saw it post here.

Another passenger plunges off a cruise ship
 
The U.S. Coast Guard is scouring the waters east of Eleuthera Island in The
Bahamas today for a 24-year-old passenger who apparently fell off Royal
Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas.
 
Relatives of the man reported him missing Monday morning. They say they last
saw him out on his cabin balcony in the middle of the night. The
3,600-passenger cruise ship -- the world's largest -- had just departed
Miami hours earlier on a seven-night eastern Caribbean cruise with scheduled
stops in Puerto Rico, St. Maarten and St. Thomas.
 
Royal Caribbean hasn't released the name of the passenger, but a television
station in Raleigh, North Carolina, WRAL, is reporting that he is a resident
of the region named Brent Smith. The station, citing his church's pastor,
says he was traveling with his parents, two siblings and a family friend.

I wonder how George Smith's sister's organization is doing.  The cruise ships need to be accountable to someone for their ships and the safety of their passengers.  There will always be people who do stupid things and pay a price, but we've now heard and seen too many instances of coverups.  Love to hear this topic resurrected on DANA's show.

[Rob]

Lil Puma- when the cruise ship industry had the Congressional hearings, it was revealed that they lost 36 passengers over a 36 month period. And from what I have seen it's still going on at roughly the same rate as before. 1 per month. No change.

[Rob]

All United Flights canceled due to computer glitch. Fox News just reported. Too bad it wasn't Jet Blue  

[IndyDan]

Grupo Anderson’s was founded by Carlos Anderson in 1963 and has since grown to be Mexico’s largest restaurant company.

Based in Cancun, Grupo Anderson’s has developed several successful restaurant concepts, including Carlos'n Charlie's, Señor Frog’s, Carlos O'Brian's and El Squid Roe. Other brands include El Tumbaburros, El Shrimp Bucket, Mama Roma, Come ‘n Eat and So Good.

The current U.S locations are Hawaii Miami Austin Myrtle Beach

Source=wikipedia

[nonesuche]

I think it's important to clarify that Jet Blue added their flights to Aruba when other carriers diminished theirs. I think that snippet of history is getting lost in the shuffle here, but the real gauge of this should be the daily number of flights or weekly, and passenger head count. Maybe BB would volunteer to search that out for us.