Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[igsigs]

Hi, Igs,
I have never seen a judicial system like this one.  It is TOTALLY FLAWED for how can one reasonably expect to ever obtain convictions with judges and ALE acting as a part of the defense team.

Anna, it certainly looks that way. You would think that with just the info that we do have on J2K, the statements...etc...that alone would be enough for them to remain suspects. Now we have a judge trying to accelerate the process for them? It appears that the judge is telling KJ that she must raise the evidentiary bar in order to keep them as suspects, but Arlene never told us about that.

[nonesuche]

Mrs. Red - what would be the proper southern term instead of YEP?  

yoohoo?   j/k

[sb]

I don't know specifics about the past life and character of PVDS. I have always been unwilling to think of him as a profligate teen skirt chaser.

Sometimes kids reflect the OPPOSITE of what their parents are, in reaction against what they see as being their parents' excesses. The preacher's daughter hits college age and works the streets, while the drunkard's son becomes a minister.

I see Joran kind of like that.

To be honest, I see PVDS as having all the character and personality of a slug under a rock. I see him as a great big "zero", devoid of any feelings or concepts about his behavior. I see him as being basically, unconcerned and just living out his life day by day with no drive or push to do anything excpt mark time. He's just... there. As a person, and as a parent.

The teenage reaction to a person like that would be to put the petal to the metal about EVERYTHING... gambling, drinking, sex, killing dogs, what have you. NO restraints.

I give you Joran.

[Carnut]

Sunfreak-

I wasn't challenging you with my post regarding the truth of Boxtel Freeway, I thought perhaps you didn't have the full story, that's all. I do think the parents of Joran avoided disciplining him and as a parent, I know what that entails and of a "sporter" physically larger than you are. It's not easy, it requires you be very hands-on and persistent and consistent. If we don't start holding some parents accountable I fear our society will have increasing problems.

I also think highly of you and your opinions, so hopefully we can agree to disagree on parts of this and agree on others?

Will have? That boat has already sailed.

[Anna]

Hi, Igs,
I have never seen a judicial system like this one.  It is TOTALLY FLAWED for how can one reasonably expect to ever obtain convictions with judges and ALE acting as a part of the defense team.

Anna, it certainly looks that way. You would think that with just the info that we do have on J2K, the statements...etc...that alone would be enough for them to remain suspects. Now we have a judge trying to accelerate the process for them? It appears that the judge is telling KJ that she must raise the evidentiary bar in order to keep them as suspects, but Arlene never told us about that.

That's because their laws are like jello and will take on any shape they dream up.  With no jury system, to me this just looks like who is bribing the judge today routine.  One person should not be allowed to make these sorts of decisions alone.

Remember when Paulus and Anita held the top secret meeting with the judge right before Joran's release?  That kind of thing would be highly illegal in this country for it looks for all the world to me like they are just flatly being bribed to rule in favor of these suspects every time.

No one releases suspects with this much evidence against them until they are either cleared or the case solved.  No one except the FOP's (Friends of Paulus) in Aruba that is.

[nonesuche]

Well carnut, last time I checked no one gave me a pass on parenting or being accountable. So I elect you to go round up a passle of these lazy apathetic parents and set them straight, ok?

I'm worn out  

[SunFreak2]

I also think highly of you and your opinions, so hopefully we can agree to disagree on parts of this and agree on others?

I totally agree. If we didn't have different views on different things, life would be boring.  I love a good debate as long as it is respectful.  And ours was! Also differences of opinions stimulate our thinking and we all know that 2 heads are better than one, unless the 2 heads are on the same person.

Hugs to you, None.  I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else with my strong opinions.

[Carnut]

Well carnut, last time I checked no one gave me a pass on parenting or being accountable. So I elect you to go round up a passle of these lazy apathetic parents and set them straight, ok?

I'm worn out  

Sorry, I am too busy complaining about illegal aliens.

[nonesuche]

I hope this doesn't become a rant but it's something that really frustrates me so I'm going to toss it out here, make of it what you will.

Paulus was studying to be a judge, a keeper of laws and judgments in any given known society, namely Aruba and in our case the US. I expect a HIGHER standard from them, from a teacher too, such as his wife. So if a wannabe judge and special counsel to the Minister of Justice is afforded a pass on parenting, then what kind of statement is that regarding Aruba overall ????????

I personally feel Paulus played some poker of his own, he played his ACE, whatever that was it was enough to shut up an entire island.

rant over.

[sb]

none, I have seen great big strapping teenage boys who would backtalk dad and defy & challenge him openly... quail and cower like little sissies when Mama brings it down. Funniest thing I have ever seen how some boys get like that.

[SunFreak2]

Hi, Igs,
I have never seen a judicial system like this one.  It is TOTALLY FLAWED for how can one reasonably expect to ever obtain convictions with judges and ALE acting as a part of the defense team.

Anna, it certainly looks that way. You would think that with just the info that we do have on J2K, the statements...etc...that alone would be enough for them to remain suspects. Now we have a judge trying to accelerate the process for them? It appears that the judge is telling KJ that she must raise the evidentiary bar in order to keep them as suspects, but Arlene never told us about that.

Maybe the judge is on the payola!

[mrs. red]

that was my rambling point with Dana..... that the island knows what happened...

[Anna]

I don't know specifics about the past life and character of PVDS. I have always been unwilling to think of him as a profligate teen skirt chaser.

Sometimes kids reflect the OPPOSITE of what their parents are, in reaction against what they see as being their parents' excesses. The preacher's daughter hits college age and works the streets, while the drunkard's son becomes a minister.

I see Joran kind of like that.

To be honest, I see PVDS as having all the character and personality of a slug under a rock. I see him as a great big "zero", devoid of any feelings or concepts about his behavior. I see him as being basically, unconcerned and just living out his life day by day with no drive or push to do anything excpt mark time. He's just... there. As a person, and as a parent.

The teenage reaction to a person like that would be to put the petal to the metal about EVERYTHING... gambling, drinking, sex, killing dogs, what have you. NO restraints.

I give you Joran.

SB,
There is some truth to what you say and likely a great deal thence the following expression and pre-made icon.  In some of the photos of Paulus looking admiringly at Joran I wonder if we have the case of the parent living vicariously through his son.

Now don't anybody jump on me, I didn't make this.  It is just an expression and one that has been around a very long time.

[Carnut]

Hey, mrs Red, Francis McDorman is on in 'Somethings Gotta Give' and she is sooooo different from the Cop Lady in 'Fargo'.

[nonesuche]

none, I have seen great big strapping teenage boys who would backtalk dad and defy & challenge him openly... quail and cower like little sissies when Mama brings it down. Funniest thing I have ever seen how some boys get like that.

have you been talking to son?    

[Carnut]

I hope this doesn't become a rant but it's something that really frustrates me so I'm going to toss it out here, make of it what you will.

Paulus was studying to be a judge, a keeper of laws and judgments in any given known society, namely Aruba and in our case the US. I expect a HIGHER standard from them, from a teacher too, such as his wife. So if a wannabe judge and special counsel to the Minister of Justice is afforded a pass on parenting, then what kind of statement is that regarding Aruba overall ????????

I personally feel Paulus played some poker of his own, he played his ACE, whatever that was it was enough to shut up an entire island.

rant over.

Yes, the culture of that dirty little island has become quite vivid.

[nonesuche]

that was my rambling point with Dana..... that the island knows what happened...

yes they do, I was listening and appreciated you said it out loud !!

[mrs. red]

Hey, mrs Red, Francis McDorman is on in 'Somethings Gotta Give' and she is sooooo different from the Cop Lady in 'Fargo'.

I really like her...she can do lots of different things...

[mrs. red]

that was my rambling point with Dana..... that the island knows what happened...

yes they do, I was listening and appreciated you said it out loud !!

thanks, it wasn't eloquent, but it was heartfelt....

[Anna]

none, I have seen great big strapping teenage boys who would backtalk dad and defy & challenge him openly... quail and cower like little sissies when Mama brings it down. Funniest thing I have ever seen how some boys get like that.

SB,
I have that phenomenon and will tell you why.  I have three and they sort of like to best each other, scuffle around.  So if one is giving Mama any grief, the other two are just tickled to pummel him but good.  Salivating at the very thought of getting to legitimately do so, lol!

And they try to out do each other sometimes in being good to Mama as well.  Hope this carries over when they all have nice incomes, lol.  Their biggest scandal is to make Mama cry!!  

.