Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 - 3/19/08

[ala_gunslinger]

From oceanexploraton:

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:

The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle also mentions a Dutch "recovery" boat in the area of the trap site.

Just the blouse and not the skirt?  There was more than just one skeletal remains in that video.  I am thinking the contents were from the ocean.  The body of one the skeletal remains appeared to be drifted upward to the cage top.  The skeletal head remains seemed to be consistent in damage that was shown in the bag videos.  Also the area where the body was supposed to be first hidden photo where the trees were chopped back seemed to have the same video in there as the one that was supposed to be in the cage.  The cage video pic must have been placed in this area to give a better perspective for that area when talking about theories.    jackb

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

No.

[mrs. red]

We might as well never think about the cage again because we will never know anything about it other than our speculation. Kyle was on the boat, operating a signifcant tool involved in the examination of the cage, and he doesn't know why the cage was not retrieved or why the evidence took a three week vacation in Aruba. He doesn't know what the FBI received from Aruba.

As bright as he is, as sophisticated as the equipment was, and as professional as the crew of the Persistence is, if they don't know the answers then we certainly aren't ever going to be able to determine anything about the cage.

It will be good for mental masturbation exercises only:) I hope that isn't a naughty use of the word!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting post....Private, thanks.

[Observer]

From oceanexploraton:

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

Kyle said 2 weeks..He also said Dolfi Richardson said he would personally send them out immediately.

[private eye]

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

Hello, have you or the crew examined what was sent to the FBI from Aruba to determine if the items sent were the ones found in the cage or were there any steps taken to protect the integritry of the evidence so that you would know if they destroyed, lost, or substituted evidence? Of course, nothing productive happens in Aruba very fast, especially with them striking. Beth thought they were on strike when she first met them:)

PI ... thank you.

You articulated my thoughts exactly.

I contend that there should have been an FBI agent on board to verify the evidence prior to being turned over to Aruban authorities?

Janet

The appearance of integrity is almost as important as integrity, and the Arubians have none of either as it relates to this case. Any evidence they are allowed to possess is evidence that might as well have not been discovered, other than to help complete the coverup. The sad thing is we will believe that regardless as they have lost even the perception of integrity. Surely the remains were not turned over to Aruba without even a bone or a piece of bone being kept by someone to corroborate that the evidence was protected in the chain of custody.

[private eye]

From oceanexploraton:

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

Kyle said 2 weeks..He also said Dolfi Richardson said he would personally send them out immediately.

I thought he said December 30 until January 22, but it doesn't matter. Is the rest of that accurate?

[ala_gunslinger]

Good night ya'll,

[wreck]

From oceanexploraton:

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:

The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle also mentions a Dutch "recovery" boat in the area of the trap site.

Just the blouse and not the skirt?  There was more than just one skeletal remains in that video.  I am thinking the contents were from the ocean.  The body of one the skeletal remains appeared to be drifted upward to the cage top.  The skeletal head remains seemed to be consistent in damage that was shown in the bag videos.  Also the area where the body was supposed to be first hidden photo where the trees were chopped back seemed to have the same video in there as the one that was supposed to be in the cage.  The cage video pic must have been placed in this area to give a better perspective for that area when talking about theories.    jackb

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

No -- he is saying that "human remains" were VERY probably found. He is saying that the FBI has ONLY stated that fabric sent to them was not a match to Natlee. That is ALL he is saying. There has been no definitive answer about ANYTHING of importance. The FBI has not commented really about anything.

[hotping]

I found the monkey in the Van der Sloot genealogy.

 
Van Der Sloot, Vander Sloot  Posted on: 13 Mar 2004, by Rebecca Haag 
  Localities > Western Europe > Netherlands > Groningen 
...looking for relations in Groningen of the VanderSloot family. My GGG grandparents Klaas & Johanna Van Der Sloot were both born there and had a child named Douwe (born 22 July 1854). Douwe married Janna Zynvr...

   

OMG! Magnolia You have found a jewell.....LOL! 

[jackb]

The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

IF YOU BUY A SHIRT IN MAY OF 2005 THEN RETURN TO THE SAME STORE TO BUY THE SAME SHIRT weeks later it may very well not be from the exact cloth that was used the first time .

I agree Blonde.

I suspect that the comparison used by the FBI in the forensic testing was the fabric found in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba on July, 2005.

Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?

Janet

++++++++++++++

Fabric/Duct Tape - Boca Tortuga
SCARED MONKEYS
June 18, 2006

What did the Aruba Park Ranger pick up at Boca Tortuga area? Fabric that matched Natalee’s Top?

What ever happened to this material? Why didn’t the media camera man take a close up of what so closely resembled the green fabric of Natalee’s top? One would have thought that they would have zoomed right in to see what had been collected.

On Sunday, July 17, 2005 the park rangers found the duct tape with long blonde hair in the Boca Tortuga area of Aruba. A park ranger being video’d walking around picks up a piece of fabric that matches Natalee’s top.

The question still remains today, what ever happened to this evidence that was collected? We also need to remember that this material that was found washed ashore following the hurricanes that took place last summer. It is highly possibly that the material washed ashore from another location on the island or from out at sea.

View fabric images:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/06/18/what-did-the-aruba-park-ranger-pick-up-at-boca-tortuga-area-fabric-that-matched-natalees-top/


Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba
To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2008
Pages 1

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.

I wonder if that is the cameraman who died with his hand in his pocket?  Jackb

[private eye]

I will ask Beth or her Mom about the evidence that the FBI received. I am simply to cynical, and I bet there is a reasonable explanation. Information does become inaccurate as it is passed along:) I am a little worried that Kyle doesn't know why the cage was not retrieved and very concerned that he is concerned. I think he would be extremely hard to deceive, especially after he gets a little down time and tries and can't put the pieces together.

[private eye]

From oceanexploraton:

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:

The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle also mentions a Dutch "recovery" boat in the area of the trap site.

Just the blouse and not the skirt?  There was more than just one skeletal remains in that video.  I am thinking the contents were from the ocean.  The body of one the skeletal remains appeared to be drifted upward to the cage top.  The skeletal head remains seemed to be consistent in damage that was shown in the bag videos.  Also the area where the body was supposed to be first hidden photo where the trees were chopped back seemed to have the same video in there as the one that was supposed to be in the cage.  The cage video pic must have been placed in this area to give a better perspective for that area when talking about theories.    jackb

Is he saying that they found human remains in the cage, that the remains were given to the Aruban authorities, they held them for three weeks, sent them to the FBI, and the FBI reported it was not Natalee?

No -- he is saying that "human remains" were VERY probably found. He is saying that the FBI has ONLY stated that fabric sent to them was not a match to Natlee. That is ALL he is saying. There has been no definitive answer about ANYTHING of importance. The FBI has not commented really about anything.

Is he saying that human remains were found and turned over to Aruba?

[klaasend]

I found the monkey in the Van der Sloot genealogy.

 
Van Der Sloot, Vander Sloot  Posted on: 13 Mar 2004, by Rebecca Haag 
  Localities > Western Europe > Netherlands > Groningen 
...looking for relations in Groningen of the VanderSloot family. My GGG grandparents Klaas & Johanna Van Der Sloot were both born there and had a child named Douwe (born 22 July 1854). Douwe married Janna Zynvr...

   

OMG too funny!  You found me out 

[SS]

Kyle ... in hindsight do you believe that involving the Aruban police ... Aruban divers ... Aruban authorities in the search for Natalee Holloway's remains ... was a wise decision or ... should the sacrificial efforts of the crew of the Persistence have been conducted independently.

Janet   
-----------

-whether a wise decision or not, it was not my decision to be made. I was under the impression that it was necessary regardless of our opinions and desires as part of working in their waters.   

I think that Kyle is trying to tell us that the Dutch/Aruba maintained control of what Persistence found in the water.   

[private eye]

Good night ya'll,

See you gunslinger.

[Buckeye]

If we are going to try and figure out the origin of the trap:

Is it for sure, a "fish" trap...as apposed to a "live animal" (wild dogs, iguana) trap?

I had found an odd page about using a fish trap to establish a desalination area at Guantanamo Bay....but I think it was only 24 inches wide.

[wreck]

I found the monkey in the Van der Sloot genealogy.

 
Van Der Sloot, Vander Sloot  Posted on: 13 Mar 2004, by Rebecca Haag 
  Localities > Western Europe > Netherlands > Groningen 
...looking for relations in Groningen of the VanderSloot family. My GGG grandparents Klaas & Johanna Van Der Sloot were both born there and had a child named [size=12pt]Douwe[/size] (born 22 July 1854). Douwe married Janna Zynvr...

   

OMG too funny!  You found me out 

"Douwe" = "Daury" ?????????????

[Observer]

The question over whether or not the FBI has human remains or not is not answerable at this point.  They are not commenting on the case.  They only commented on the fabric sample and that it's not a match to Natalee's blouse.

However, the impression I took away was based on a conversation with someone who told me there were remains, which left me rather suprised to hear from him. But, it's possible that in conversation he confused remains vs. DNA.  Honestly, I was under the impression that if there was DNA, there was remains and so I agreed with him.     

Sounds like they then turned over the Remains/DNA to Aruban Authorites,Commissioner Richardson said they would send out the samples immediately and Kyle is puzzled why it took 2-3 weeks to get to the FBI.

[Tamikosmom]

I fear the the crew of the Persistence were not fully aware of the dynamics encompassing the established coverup in the Aruban investigation ... the coverup to protect Joran and Paulus van der Sloot from implication ... the coverup that has prevented justice from prevail for an American citizen ... the coverup that has forced the family of Natalee Holloway to ride a roller coaster from H--- for almost three years.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005

MICHELLE: One of Joran's and PVDS's alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald's. PVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald's parking lot to prove this claim?

BETH: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.


Jug Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
August 11, 2005

TWITTY: ... Those people that were with me that night, had they taken our statements at least a week after it happened, we would have already had the answer. But when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925176/

[private eye]

Kyle ... in hindsight do you believe that involving the Aruban police ... Aruban divers ... Aruban authorities in the search for Natalee Holloway's remains ... was a wise decision or ... should the sacrificial efforts of the crew of the Persistence have been conducted independently.

Janet   
-----------

-whether a wise decision or not, it was not my decision to be made. I was under the impression that it was necessary regardless of our opinions and desires as part of working in their waters.   

I think that Kyle is trying to tell us that the Dutch/Aruba maintained control of what Persistence found in the water.   

To clarify, I am not meaning to be critical, I am trying to get straight exactly what happened. I have a lot of respect for Kyle, and it is due to that respect that I am so concerned that he is concerned.

[texasmom]

Good night ya'll,

goodnight 'gunslinger!