Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Clean cage...whew...

No shrimp scampi, here.  :(

bends over and takes her spanking for going over 50  :oops:

Shell congratulations on not smoking.  Keep it up. :D

Oh, I must have missed that... how completely AWESOME!!!

As a smoker who has tried and failed a few times, I second this.

Shell,
I haven't read his book... I have read all of the stuff in that thread... you're right other than LV's pictures... it's creepy because of what happened... I will go to the library across the street tomorrow and borrow that book.... great idea before he comes on Dana's show...

OK... sorry for O/T....

:lol:  :lol:
Moved this topic to the Monkey Lounge

Either that or he is the real roger, hence why his girl friend's fall asleep all the time....  :wink:   hardly...

hopefully he wont have any hard feelings towards the judge

Personally I don't think Paulus involved a DR.  A physician who made an honest mistake that ended up harming or killing someone would not jump to Paulus's offer.  That physician would stand firm in his resolve it was a just tragic mistake he made.  An unethical physician might accept Paulu's proprosal for a trade off, but most likely Paulus would not be willing to sacrifice his control of the situation.  Adding a physician to the mix creates more problems than it solves, especially if he chooses an unethical one, he is prone to blackmail for forever.

I would agree... Sun... I would agree..
Blah, we should put that in the lounge... the play on words is too funny,!!

sorry for BRINGING IT UP in here....

Thanks for congrats words from San, Mrs. R and 2NJSons_Mom...it is extremely difficult to quit cigs:shock: and I am amazed I have gone this long. Too many health things have cropped up and I could not put off quitting any longer.

re: the Black D, I thought I could handle looking at all those links, but it had a lasting effect on me and I wish I had not seen those pictures. On the other hand, I really want to read the book. I guess I like things answered, wrapped up and closed. Cold cases bother me. I don't like bad guys getting away, I want answers and justice. That is what makes me so angry about the NH case. A lot of people lied, looked the other way, didn't persue justice and truth.

No Problem... the play on words was funny!  I put it in the lounge with the posts so far...

I thought this was a clean cage!!!! :wink:

blah....what's UP with that?     :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Hey Monkeys.....Just doing some PTA stuff and lurking.

Shell - the story was written ok... but the pictures... I had nightmares!!

Hey Mom...

Shell....stay strong...I quit 8 years ago.  It is tough at times but you can make it happen!!!!

I just got that... :oops:  :oops:

From Nancy Grace in September 2005

I want to go back to Beth Twitty and ask you, Beth, is there anywhere to go at this juncture?

TWITTY: Well, Nancy, I actually think there is, and I`ve had five of Joran`s statements that are printed in Dutch translated for me. You know, he states specifically in one of his statements, he prefaced it with, well, now, my third statement was not true, now here`s the truth. We drove -- I drove Natalee to my home at 1:40 a.m. on May 30th. He says he has sex with her. You know, if kidnapping -- and she`s coming in and out of consciousness when -- as he`s describing her in these statements.

http://tinyurl.com/kka2r


And didn't the somewhat recycled girlfriend of Freddy, Carmen (?) work at a hospital??

Couldn't resist.  How are you?  Been crazy busy since July when I was laid off from my job.  I wonder how I ever worked and raised my 3 kids.  I don't have time to work!!!!

Ok... moving back on topic....

So someone tell me why them hitting her with the car is so far out of touch... except for Freddy and the camera.... HMMM>..

however, they mention hitting the girl with a car - jvds mentions it...

they need to explain an injury....

they are cleaning the car in the middle of the night... early morning... it's just a thought...

I moved the story to the lounge... because the play on words was so funny!

hitting her with the car is a very possible theory...I think

I think most don't think it's possible... but it just makes sense to me... except I have to wonder how Freddy fits into that scenario....

So you are saying the urge never goes away? I had a feeling that would be the case. Listen, if you quit 8 years ago, do not ever have another one! I will remind you how hard it was to quit if you ever have a desire to light one up!

Hey Monkeys...

Pardon for bustin in, but I haven't seen Easy post in awhile.

Am I just missing him, or is he away?

TIA...

I dont think Freddy is really involved.  He only come into the story because Joran told him the REAL truth.

maybe someone can email him Jaq... I thought I saw posts from him on Sunday... before we crashed...

Yes, it's only been since Sunday but it feels longer...

I'm just being an overprotective monkey I guess. :oops:

Freddy, hmmm, he had a car and could drive, correct? If one needed a ride home in the wee hours, who would you call? A friend, like Freddy? I think the evening involved more than just J and the K2's. Them dropping off J and Natalee at the beach and then going home to sleep? No way! JMHO, but I think they met up with others, somewhere, somehow. Just becasue some of J's friends could not take him to CnC's, doesn't mean they said no to meeting up with him later.

Easy was around on Sunday, bought a new print. Seemed very " up'. Was goiing to look at putting some stuff on his walls.
Shell, good for you ! ! I smoke, wish I didn't. Am coming down with something that is going around work. Be brave. I quit before and then started up.
If I get a bad chest cold I will try to not smoke and then quit again.

I was out of it earlier, hot and cold, typed Paulus as PUS, but it suits him doesn't it.
Had some chocolate medicine. With a Tylenol. Mmmmm... medicine.
nummy.
The interview that Beth is doing, I would like to see it with subtitles, any chance it will be on the Dutch TV ? I did watch the reenactment on some Dutch channel, but I can't remember what langauge it was in ! ! Or if there were Subtitles.

But don't forget Blah, Freddy has been known to film rapes, etc. and that fact alone, brings up more suspicion regarding Freddy. Don't forget their references to "bringing THE camera" to Fraddy...it's like a camera which all knew what the purpose was....the testimony didn't say "a" camera, but THE camera, as if all knew what that camera did.

Unfortunately, the urge never goes away.  I always want one especially when having cocktails!!!!  I resist because know how hard it is to quit.

My Mum quit smoking and her " urge" went away. Every once in awhile she said she wanted one... every couple of months, but then she would do some deep breathing and try to think of something else and it went away.
Oh, Easy, he mentioned a guy who cut his lawn who had a cute MIL.
Clue # 1.

Apparently, Freddy knows the truth as to what happened to Natalee. Freddy has not told what he knows. In my book, Freddy is right there on the "S" list with J and the K2's.

But I can tell you from experience if you quit and then just have one with a drink... you will be so sick... so don't even bother..

Joran could have met up with some of his other pimpy buddies. He spoke to Sandor during the day... remember the wanna go for a boat ride seasick boy conversation ?
Where was the boat that night ? Docked by the Marriott ?

lol, now I remember the last time Easy was here. He was going for the MIL of the tatooed a*hole yard cutter who did a good job but left a log in his yard. It is all coming back to me now.

Hey Monkeys ... briefly spoke with Beth tonight ... actually late this afternoon. Forgot she was still overseas ... oops. Sorry about that 6 hours difference Beth.  :shock:

The Dutch show airs tomorrow she stated. She is doing well. They have done prepping and pre-taping for show. All involved with the show have been very nice.

.
Just lurking and reading.  All theories and points of interest seem well thought out and plausible.

A couple of thoughts are all I have on this latest. . . if neither Deepak nor Satish picked up Joran, there was no hurry, especially if Natalee was asleep.  There was no reason whatsoever for Joran to leave his shoes.  He had all the time to go get them which surely would have been preferable ot walking home barefoot over rocks and cacti.

So why did he leave them?  Makes no sense.

Also, remember Deepak was driving 90 KILOMETERS per hour and not mph so only about 56 mph.  I don't think one could drive 90 mph on those roads as they appear to be in very bad shape for the most part.  55-60 mph is pretty fast on such shoddy roads.

When was Paulus online looking up drugs and alcohol?  Was it Tuesday night?  Before Beth arrived?  Why would he do this?  Don't think he contacted a physician as this seems to me that he was trying to handle things on his own.  Or figure out what bad happened.

Isn't Satish awfully concerned with the well-being of Joran's one-night stand never going to be seen again girl?  What did he think was wrong with her that he should ask how's she doing?  This is the girl who either did not speak to the Kelpoes at all or made racist statements depending on which version you believe.  Yes, she should have been long gone and forgotten.  Did he always worry about the girls the next day twenty times?  Or just Natalee?

good to hear, thanks for the update

Maybe Freddy was the driver of the car that transported her.  I found it strange that Satish volunteered what type of cars the Sloots had.  Was Freddy the driver of their car.

Anna, it was MONDAY, beofre Beth arrived P.us looked that up.
7pm ish Aruba time.

Good night Monkeys...

Blah... that has funny story that you BROUGHT UP was moved to the lounge....


y'all have had some great thoughts...

Keep the faith...

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/Ariallighthousepavementhuts-capt-1.jpg)

The parking area is where Deepak claims he relieved himself.  Perhaps they were dropping Joran & Natalee for a little boat ride.  There in Malmok is a boat launch site and that is where the Gottenbos live.  There also fishermen huts.  Natalee may have stumbled and fell getting out of the car.  Deepak & Satish may have switched positions as drivers and Satish ran her over.  They conveniently changed the location from Malmok to the Mariott.

Yeah, maybe the lawn care was just a setup for casing the joint and the MIL was just a 'hook' to get on the inside for nefarious activities?

Taken care of  :wink:

I'm still on my KISS date rape gone bad at he sloot dump.

Still think K2's went home and didn't do much more than chauffer.

Do see the connection of Freddy being in on something, may have come in after the fact in assisting in body disposal.

Hi Monkeys,
Frijole, Lala'sMom, LilPuma, mrs. red, Sam, sharon, Shell , Anna And anyone else I missed. If you notice I left my name on the list deliberatley to make sure at least I said hi to me. In case you all ignore me. LOL

I need to read backwards to find out what you are all talking about. The one thing that comes to mind with this latest translation as well as the Deepac emails is "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

Thanks, Kat_Gram,
That says to me that Paulus didn't need a doctor for he could handle everything himself.  Was he checking how much was lethal and in what combinations?

Surely Joran would NOT have logged on as his father checking such things for a school paper as we have been told.  Makes his father look really bad as though he himself were planning to try something on his own.  No way was it anybody other than the one who logged on, Paulus.

So he did know before Beth arrived despite his claims to the contrary.  What was he doing?  Trying to figure out what went wrong or trying to find out what to do?  Seeing if what they gave Natalee could be expected to be lethal?  

You don't suppose ALE ever asked him about that?  

.

Red is there anyway to listen to the show Beth will be on??

When the person who was Paulus logged in, Joran was at the Racquet Club. Joran says he was there went to Gym at 6 .. Koen was there in the gym. But P was on that site briefly, then went to a lawyers page. Or reverse order,

Hi monks,  I've been lurking daily, waiting for a reason to jump in, hoping to hear something about Larry's claim of new witness...  Shouldn't we have heard something by now????

But had to jump in for Shell.  Great job on quitting smoking!  I only wish I could quit!  Any new secrets these days to help?

i think these JACKASSES play games

they get a car to follow them to scare the young girl and and then force her to do something, something like gangster stuff

Well looks like everybody is gone again,  seems to happen every time i do post.

G'night all!

Which story, Mrs. Red???

I think Beth will be on Nancy Grace Thursday.

It looks like Jensen does put his interviews on his website but a couple days later.  This morning he had shows from 9/22.

Here is the link to his website:

http://www.rtl.nl/shows/jensen/home/

Hi Dihannah, I keep hoping for some action on that front as well.
By the way did you read my last dream post? I also posted on the trip page and forgot to mention asking you about the trip in IM.

I also commented to you in the political thread. Nice to see you here. I wish some of the other trip Monkeys would come back to LCD thread. Like Hotshot and idstlouis. That may not be the right name. LOL

Hi Sam, I see you.  :wink:

He could have been planting "evidence" that that was what happened - a drug/alcohol combination gone bad.  Or Paulus could have been trying to get enough info to determine if that's what they could claim.  They made up the HI story before the Twittys arrived, but they didn't know what was going to happen.  So Paulus starts thinking, what story can we tell them, what evidence is on the body, what all do we have to cover up?  He decides that Natalee's body will produce evidence of rape and a date rape drug, and then they don't know if anyone saw them or if there's any other evidence, like the shoes.  So Natalee's remains have to disappear because if there's no body, there's no case.

It is hard enough with the patch, I can't even imagine doing this with no help at all. There are some other things (losenges, and medicines) but I have not tried them, the patch is working for me so far.

<------Waving to Sam.

The front page post we did had a couple of links to the show's web page. Not sure how to watch live, but it appears that they do put up video after the fact.

Beth is also supposed to be on NG on Thursday as well. I am sure she will be discussing the trip and show in Holland.

I meant to comment earlier Shell. Congratulations and keep it up. Also remember when you go off the patch, if the urge becomes to great go back to the patch. At least it is not going into your lungs.

Thanks for the tip Sam, I will keep some patches on hand at the end of this ordeal :?  They are saying cigs might go up $2.00 per pack here, that alone gave me a huge insentive to quit once and for all. (As if a heart attack and having to have an mri of various areas which showed suspicious areas was not enough.) Breast mri coming up soon, and in 6 months recheck of lungs.

Someone was talking about tides earlier in reference to Joran's statement that he left Natalee about 1 meter from the ocean at low tide.  I did a search on tides.  This is for Curacao but would not be much different for Aruba, as Curacao is where the official tides for that area of the world are measured.

05/29/2005 Sun 05:01AM LST 1.0  H  01:25PM LST -0.4 L  07:29PM LST 0.4  H  

05/30/2005 Mon 12:32AM LST 0.2  L  05:54AM LST 0.8  H  01:56PM LST -0.4 L  08:06PM LST 0.6  H  

05/31/2005 Tue 02:03AM LST 0.2  L  06:48AM LST 0.7  H  02:26PM LST -0.3 L  08:44PM LST 0.7  H  

What the tide table tells is what time was high tide (H) or low (L) and by how much in feet.  LST= local standard time.

So on 5/30 the tide was low at 12:32 AM by 0.2 ft.  Tide did not become high tide until 5:54 AM  and it was at 0.8 ft.  I'm not sure whether this is telling us the difference in tide heights was .8ft or was .6ft (.8-.2).  Either way, 0.8ft is only a little over 9 inches.

If someone is just in a drunken slumber, I would think the tide rushing up would awaken them, jmo.  Drugged & drunken sleep, I would think not.  However would 9 inches higher water be enough to drown someone lying 1 meter from the water at low tide? Beaches are usually sloped somewhat, so I would imagine that factors into the depth of the water, and whether she was lying on her back, side or stomach.  

I seriously doubt this is how she died, b/c her body would have washed back to shore.  Plus at almost 6AM, surely there would have been some early bird people walking the beach or fishing.

Again, jmo.

Source:
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/get_predictions.shtml?year=2005&stn=2198+Cristobal&secstn=Schottegat,+Curacao&thh=%2b0&thm=25&tlh=%2b1&tlm=9&hh=*0.82&hl=*0.82

Why did all 3 lie? Let's say they did drop off Joran and Natalee, and they went along with the lie for him...wouldn't a person ask what they were covering up? They both knew what happened. Both of the boys gave inconsistent stories of the events prior to leaving CnC's. Why? I think because they had evil intent from the get go.

WOW, only 2 bucks. Dayum!! In Ohio, Newports are @$48.00/carton. Generics are anywhere from $2.99 - $3.50/pack.
They say it is easier to quit crack cocaine than it is nicotine.

I meant an additional $2.00! That would make them about $6.00 per pack.

Of course not, SF, one of them killed her.  :(  I didn't post it, but wondered about it earlier, even wondered if Joran or Paulus were smart enough to know when low/high tide is.  From information you've found, even if she could have drowned lying on the beach, she would not have been washed out to sea, as you mentioned.    So where is she?   And if she was lying there for 3 hours for the tide to come in, why didn't anyone see her?  Lots of people on the beach, whether tourists or for the concert.  The fishermen were there.  Someone would have seen her.  Didn't go down that way.  ALE knows it, we know it.

WOW!! I quit almost 8 years ago.  Back then a carton was anywhere from $14 to $18 dollars depending where you bought them.  Singles were around $2.00 a pack.  I read today that in NYC, a pack goes for around $7.50.  Too expensive and too deadly a habit.

Oh, Shell...what am I thinking....they are over $6.00 a pack here...I used the patch last time, but my DH went back to smoking and I eventually caved in...I might try again, but follow Sam's advice...those patches made red marks all over me, but I guess that's better than the alternative.   Stay the course, Shell.

Hi Misgivings. I think what Shell is saying is the price of a pack of cigarettes is going to increase by $2 a pack . Not that cigarettes are going to cost $2 a pack.

I have never tried crack cocaine lol but am a nicotine addict. I have quit a million times at least. The one time I was actually sucessful was with the patch. I wish I had taken the advise I gave Shell. I am going to try again though, eventually. If I live long enough. LOL

Lilpuma, Thanks for the wave. LOL

I too do not think Natalee drowned at hgih tide. I do think it could be possible she drowned. If she did I think Joran knew it when it happened.

With that I am going to bed.

high tide.

Goodnight Monkeys.

Hey, girl. Yep, one of them killed her and my money is on Joran!  I would hope living on an island that they would know the tides.  When I lived at the beach, the tides were part of the daily news on TV and in the paper.  Of course, we are talking about bassackward Aruba.  I think that D & S knew something happened to Natalee (they drugged her), but they did know what bad happened to her except maybe she fell.  Joran probably white washed everything in his telling to Deepak.  Remember Janssen said they had an 8 minute cell phone chat that night.   Simian said that around the pool the Kalpoes were told what to tell.  They were asked to protect Joran, and they thought the girl would show up.  Joran * Paulus knew differently.

O/T

In case I don't have time to talk to you before I leave tomorrow, I wanted to say bye bye to the monkeys.

I'll be back from England the evening of Oct. 5, and I hope there has been some positive news in the case by then.

See ya! :D

Bye BT, have a great trip and be safe.

:blowingsmoochies: to BT  !!! I miss you already. :(

Bye BT, have a wonderful trip!

Thanks, guys.

I'm gonna miss everyone too.  :cry:

BT
Say hi to the head QMim for me  :wink:

I'm thinking of the statements by Joran & Paulus about that Monday's escapades at the Racquet Club.  

This is all supposition on my part.  The Twitty's notify the chaperone they are enroute to Aruba and they have the name Joran from one of the Twitty twins who was playing in the Texas Hold'em tournament.  The chaperone calls the police to check on ALE's progress and tells them that the family is enroute and the name they have is Joran. The police tip off Paulus that some girls family is enroute and that Joran left from Carlos N Charlies with the missing girl.  They mention that CnC's is a place where drinks are drugged.  Paulus quickly gets on line to search drugs & drinking & what could happen.  He quickly prints out a list of attorney's phone numbers too.  He grabs a gym bag for an alibi reason to go see Joran and heads out to find Joran.  He intercepts Joran somewhere enroute to the hotels and tells him what is coming down is that the family of the girl is heading to Aruba.  Paulus told Joran to secure a good hiding place for the meantime. I think it took them all by surprise that they showed up at 3ish AM - the vdS were hoping it would be a confrontation during the day, while Joran was safely at school.  So they had to fly by the seat of their pants to come up with a story.  Being dumb naive boys, they didn't realize that the HI dropoff story wouldn't fly too far.  Paulus realizes this after visting the hotel Tues early AM with the posse & poliz.  Paulus relaizes that wherever Joran put the body is not good enough, so he takes over the disposal job to completely disappear the body.  Then he set about calling in the favors from the few corrupt cops he knew he could trust to bumble & saboutage the investigation.   I even think the many inconsistencies in the stories, the finger pointing was part of the subterfuge to confuse the issues.  I think as the media descended on Aruba, the gov't realized the need to aide in the coverup in an effort to safe tourism and it snowballed out of Paulu's control.

One more OT and I promise to stop klaas

Bt, tell S I am reading and getting real smart!!  :wink:  :lol:

Are you taking the sock monkeys with you?  

Bon Voyage - have fun!

Cherio, pip pip!

BT, have a great trip...will miss you....(actually, haven't seen you often in here, lately..mmmm)... we'll be here when you get back...nodoubtaboutit....safe travels, my friend.

I smacked him for you too!!! :wink:

I'm taking two sock monkeys and will bring back pics.

Thanks for the good wishes!

B T Have a wonderful trip and say hello to the Queen when you are there.
Take the Sock Monkeys too.
They want to go through customs  ! !   LOL    8)  
Seriously, have a good time !  !

Thanks 2NJ. I will miss you too.

I'm outta here, guys.

See you on Oct. 5th.

Sunfreak2,

I thought the search on the VDS pc on drugs/alchohol was done early AM on 5/30/05....long before the Twitty family knew anything had happened, to Natalee.   Don't see how this works into your last post..regarding Paulus giving a heads up to Joran at the raquet club....

Maybe it's late and I'm not comprehending as I should.

Nothing too interesting in Joran's lack of a statement.
Except : Freddy has made some statments
            Ms. Martina HAD made a statment.        
            Freddy's immediate family has made statements.
Joran is an idiot. He slaps the table insead of speaking.

Maybe the 14's are his pimp-a-tourist shoes...goes with the tale about mmm.....but the 10.5's are his true size, and mmmm.  Wonder if there were size 14 K-Swiss shoes...another lie, or did they belong to someone else?  

I think 'The suspect did not react' statement by the officers is more telling...after confronted with Martina's statement.

Wish they gave us the questions asked...pointed, leading or otherwise.  

Thanks, Klaas for translations...

And what's the deal with the shoes?  I think we all agree Joran probably wears size 14.  Why would his shoes have a tag in them that says 10.5?  How is that possible?  and WHY?

I know we went thru the sizes per country and I forget which country migh have the equivalent of a 10.5....and reason tells me that a guy his height would have a 14, no problem.....I was just going with the police statement for the 10.5 fitting.  

Wonder why female officers came into play....or did I miss some along the way...(or am I mistaken... :) )

Definately a female officer.  I believe they MAY be the Dutch behavioural specialists.

Paulus's drug research was in the early evening around 7:30 PM on Monday night 5/30.

Thanks... the difference would actually be less than 9 inches, because if Joran were telling Deepak the truth, he would have left her there at about 2:30, 2 hours after the tide was at it's lowest point, 3.5 hours before the highest point.  So we're probably talking about at most a 5 or 6 inch rise in water level when she is 3 feet from the water's edge...  and even if the slope is very slight I think that over a 3 foot distance the beach would rise  by at least a couple inches.  

And also for her to have been drowned by the returning tide, it would need to have happened well before sunrise at 6:12, giving Joran time to go back out to the beach, find her dead, and move the body.

So while not impossible I agree, that's probably not how she died.

So definately prior to Beth/Jug and groups arrival.

This is what bothers me - "offered at the sexual community".  WTH is that?  A place like a skating rink or the Lion's Den where your price of admission is a Lioness that you swap and trade. Ughh - the thought of it makes me ill.

This makes me ill just reading these statements.  It amazes me about the friendliness of the interrogators to wish Joran a Happy Birthday!!!

It was a google image search tho, not a regular google search.  So it looks like he was after pictures not info.  And just minutes earlier he was visting finance-related sites.  If he thought that Joran might have killed someone wouldn't dealing with that have been his priority, not checking how his stocks did? I think the alcohol/drug search may well have just been a coincidence, tho I'd like to know his explanation for it.

"The suspect has represented that he has explained that he and the missing girl walked a bit. And that a declaration is there of someone who has seen the car of Deepak Kalpoe on, some hundreds of meters away from the fisherman’s hut. He is asked for the logic of and an other one and is asked if he can explain why he then with the other boys who were place. (? Not sure what this paragraph is trying to say)"

Sounds like they are talking about the gardener, asking Joran to explain why he was seen by him at the other location with the other boys

From Sander's statement :
On your question if I had contact with Joran on May 31, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not have contact with Joran on 31 May 2005. I did, however, have telephone contact with Freddy. The conversation went concerning my telephone that was stolen. The first time that I saw him was on Wednesday, therefore June 1, 2005. I met him at its house. Before I went to its house I called him. That was around 16:00. That was the time when I with Amanda, Flor and Gilayla went to his house.

Why is Freddy who is over 20 discusssing a lost phone at school with a 15 year old ?

Honestly, that is something getting lost in the translation.  I don't know what it means.  Could be sex party?  Could be orgy?  Could be something else entirely.  To me it isn't that important.  We already know that women are simply objects to Joran anyway.

We don't know the tone. Wishing someone a Happy Birthday while they are in jail is not a good thing .

Shizaru - could very well be.  I'm hoping Rammstein or some other Dutch poster will point out all the mistakes I made.   :lol:

Didn't Joran ask Karen if she wanted a threesome with some other guy ?
Groupsex ? Could that be the word ?

That's true.  I would like to wipe that smirk/grin off Joran's face.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/SM%20Property/CompT6.jpg)

He searched the images, then clicked for the text. Saved the information and later deleted it. Paulus was in a hurry, checked his money, checked the drugs & alchol actions on young people, found lawyers names & numbers.  Then met up with Joran or in reverse order.  Either way he was in a rush, he had a time constraint.

Have our Aruba bound monkeys made their trip and return yet?  f so, I wonder what they were able to find out.

Don't forget that he went from juvenile status to adult status at this birthday and was moved into the "big Boy" side of the prison.

What if the location was Malmok Beach ?
The call from Joran to Deepak came from the vicinity of the huts / Mariott. You  can't pinpoint, there is a raduis depending on what cell tower you are near.
Sandor's phone had something in it that he was worried about.
Hence it was " stolen " at school on the Monday. Then he discussed this with Freddy on the Tuesday. Then he gets rid of the phone. Do cell phones with picture taking transmissions have memory that could be retrieved ? Bad sentence. Late, but you know what I mean.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/DeepaksRoute.jpg)

I'm sorry...just looked at the info we have here, and didn't see this...guess I need direction, again....all that I found or recall were early AM hours...thanks.

 :lol: It is kinda funny. Some say it's terrible! and misleading! and HMI!

All the while the Dutch original is staring them in the face and they don't move a finger to correct it. A little transparent, i say.

Some of the translations are easier than others.  This last one has 3 areas I think where I couldn't really figure it out.  But I note that in the translation itself with a question mark.

What really cracks me up is when the do re-translate it and it basically is the exact same thing.

Another funny part was one of Satish's last statements where he says Paulus say no corpse.  At first they were trying to say I CHOSE the word corpse.  After the Dutch looked at it, it was determined the word was indeed corpse.  ha ha  :lol:

SF let me try this again.  What about this guy..."Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us. His father is Dr. Carlos Viana This was taken from the caption under the picture of Fernando in the "Important Documents" page.  What kind of doctor is his father, anyone know?

Klaas, did you see MFs *President of the Courts* post on FOB?

Looks interesting, but no source and i can't tell if it is BS or not.

Makes sense to me.  I think van der Straaten would be the person Paulus would call; didn't Anita call him when Paulus was arrested?  We haven't really confirmed a strong friendship with any of the judges, have we?  I know it was rumored that Smid was a friend, but I don't know that we have confirmation.  Now the duffle bag stories become even more important.  Did it have Joran's shoes and clothes from the night before in it?  Did Guido, whom Joran was supposed to play tennis with, help him burn his clothes and shoes?  Paulus would have been trying to put together alibis, get rid of evidence, while telling J2K to go through their normal routines.  I agree they knew the family was coming, maybe checked the airlines for the next flight not knowing they'd be coming in on a company jet.  They didn't know that Beth, her sister and the strength of the Holloway-Twitty clan would grab the attention of the US media, who turned out to be pitt bulls in this case.  They underestimated all of them and didn't know there'd be so many "stupid Americans" who would fan the flames that are still consuming Aruba.

http://www.viananaturalhealing.com/otherhtml/english/bio.html

VIANA NATURAL HEALING CENTER ARUBA

(snipped)
Besides being the Medical Director of the Viana Natural Healing Center, in Aruba, Dr. Viana currently has a live weekly radio program, and writes and lectures frequently on health in several languages. Dr. Viana-Alfaro had been nominated by Dr. C. T. Smith as Medical Director for ICBR (International Clinic of Biological Regeneration) Caribbean and Latin American Division.

Dr. Carlos Viana is licensed to practice integrative medicine in Aruba, Dutch West Indies and in Curaçao, Netherlands Antilles
(snipped)

Fernando Viana:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/FernandoViana-1.jpg)

Dr. Carlos Viana:

(http://www.viananaturalhealing.com/images/docforbio.jpg)

I have to add though, I don't think PVD would try to get medical attention for Natalee.  He would know the less people involved, the better off he is.  I also think he was right in the thick of it and knows exactly what went on... if not a part of it.  If Freddie did take video it is long gone.  I can't understand why no one is willing to come forward with information to claim the reward.  Someone who was not involved knows something.  That dirty little island is to small and the story to big for them to keep quiet.  Unless they are terrified of someone more important than those nasty 2Ks and JVD.

Thanks Klaas.  That is amazing how you just whip answers up like magic!  I don't think this Dr. would risk his reputation for a wanna be judge.  So I rule hiim out.  Thanks.

Klaas, about the translations, I've even read that people don't believe any of it and without the Dutch originals, the translations have no credibility.  I didn't bother to mention that on SM the Dutch originals are also posted.   I know that the real problem is that these statements don't fit their agenda.  Keep up the good work and remember, you don't need a psych evaluation to get online.   :wink:

From MF at FOB:

Interview with the President of the Common Court of the Netherland Antilles and Aruba, Luis Delannoy (presides over the 28 judges on the island).

President of the Courts in Aruba said in an interview that their involvement in the Natalee Holloway case will start when the Prosecuter accuses some people as suspects and they are asked to process them. In this case, it has not come so far. The only involvement they had in this case, was in the investigation process where some people were detained for interrogation and had to appear in front of a Judge of Instruction.

The Judge of Instructions at a certain moment in the case, did let the suspects free, because the investigation did not give enough evidence to keep them detained, which was the verdict of the court, but also there was no evidence to process anyone and there is still no evidence to summon no one. He thinks the prosecuter still has not enough evidence.

At this situation, the President said that if there is no evidence coming in by the end of the year, the case will end for the suspect this year. The investigation can continue though for eternity.

After the case is over, there must be an evaluation of the system, and if indeed some things must be changed. But saying that there were errors, he cannot say that because he has not seen the dossier.

Regarding the Dutch police coming to help in the case, he said it will be difficult for them to come up with a result at this time, even if they start all over again. But he agrees that everybody wants to see a solution and that's why they want to try once more. But he expects nothing new.

What's up with Delannoy?

Why try to distance the Judges from this case? On one hand he states that they have not been involved with the case and then later admits they have interrogated, detained and freed the suspects.

And enough of the no evidence, no evidence, no evidence mantra. Maybe there is some in that dossier you admit to have not seen? Same goes for his pessimism regarding the Dutch investigation, let them look at the dossier that you haven't seen and decide for themselves.

Luis Delannoy expects nothing new. Or is he hoping for nothing new?

Check the names on this board out, and read....

http://bb.visitaruba.com/archive/index.php/t-4033.html

Good Morning, Hotshot ... long time no see?

Didn't Native Lingo and/or Arubagirl used to rave about this doctor?

 I think that was a different Dr.  A very cute one to be exact...  So how ya been?  I have started EMT school and haven't been around too much.  It is a tough course.

What do you mean you're going to England?  I'm coming to Chattanooga this weekend?  

Guess we won't be having a smart cocktail together this time.  I'm bummed.

Have a fabulous time across the pond, dear.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

Well, the pix I've seen of him - maybe on this page - he looks kinda cute; from what I read at your link, he apparently looks young for his age. However, I think it was, shall we say, his "bedside manner" ... that the local ladies were posting about.

Sounds to be a tough course indeed. Not sure I could do that ... good luck with it.

Good morning.

I don't think that's the same Dr. that Hannie thought was such a hunk.  Hard to recall after all this time.

Good Morning Monkeys!!

I just read the latest of JOran's statements - or shall I say non statements.  It makes me want to puke.

Congratulations on his birthday?

We also see the shoe size change in this statement.  Something is indeed up with that.

The judges are part of the cover-up.  Why don't they just call Jan Van der Straaten before a judge and ask them why he thinks Natalee is dead.  Ask him what was the so called "I have seen the evidence" to make him believe she is dead.  Ask him why he made the family take the kidnapping posters down.  If she wasn't kidnapped or murdered then where is she.

Karin Janssen was in charge of the investigation and she along with Van der Straaten and his buddy Dennis Jacobs sabotaged this entire case.

How Joran, Deepak and Satish were set free after a Judge viewed their conflicting statements is beyond me.  Those 3 should have been kept locked up and questioned daily until one of them told the truth.  Plus, Paul winning a financial settlement (now under appeal) is outrageous considering how his deviant son's behavior has almost bankrupted Aruba.
I hope the Dutch team shakes that island out of it's mental lethagy.

I know y'all think I am crazy, but I still think that jvds was wearing the exact shoes during his interview with Greta... smirked way too much... and in this statement he only got upset about taking them off??? HMMMMM

From Satish's latest statement:

I asked him how Joran did get home during the night. He told me Joran had called him while walking in the direction to his home. He told me Joran told him he walked bare feet because he left the shoes at the beach. Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing. He told me Joran told him he left the girl behind at the beach. That day Joran did not tell my brother exactly when had happened on the beach. Specification about that I got on Wednesday

I know we have gone over this, WHY would he be concerned with HOW she was doing unless he knew something had happened??  So Joran did not tell Deepak WHAT had happened on the beach.  Seems to me if their little plans had come off as it usually did, there would be no reason to ask how the girl was, or for  JOran to tell what happened on the beach.

More:

 He told me there was a possibility the girl was missing and that we had to invent a lie.

Why the need to invent a lie (if they are all innocent.)

In the Black Dahalia thread....



BTW, good morning Monkeys... reading back.. catching up...

OMG... cigarettes here are $5.50 a pack.. :shock:

They are $7.50 a pack here in New York.

No it isn't the same guy... that guy was big like a football player big and IIRC, he was a chiropractor

FROM JORAN'S 8/8/05 DUTCH INTERROGATIONS:

The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.

Freddy's relatives gave statements also.  I wonder which relatives.  Ernesto?

I found the one you are thinking of.  He ran during the fall 05 elections in Aruba, IIRC.  Name is Richard Visser, a chiropractor,

(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/2NJSons_Mom/RichardVisser.jpg)

Or isn't loco Steph... his sister???

what's up with this community sex quote from his statement?  are they referring to another "backseat" episode like the one that they talked about happening with Jamie...

the more I learn about that place, the more glad I am that I am "banned"... what a hell hole!!

Was it him?

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/RichardVisser.jpg)

Hey 2NJSons he looks better in your picture :lol:

You're good!  That's the one everyone was salivating over.   :roll:

Yep I agree cesspool.

Just wanted to say hi!  Everytime I read these statements from the PIMPS I can't understand how these rats are allowed their freedom..  I think another thing that upsets me is that there are people that find what these kids did and act normal and thats really sad..  Everyone have a good day..

Merriam Webster Online dictionary:

Main Entry: com·mu·ni·ty
Pronunciation: k&-'myü-n&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English comunete, from Anglo-French communité, from Latin communitat-, communitas, from communis
1 : a unified body of individuals: as a : STATE, COMMONWEALTH b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself <the problems of a large community> c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location d : a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society <a community of retired persons> e : a group linked by a common policy f : a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests <the international community> g : a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society <the academic community>
2 : society at large
3 a : joint ownership or participation <community of goods> b : common character : LIKENESS <community of interests> c : social activity : FELLOWSHIP d : a social state or condition  

I also checked out the Thesaurus and the only word that popped out was GANG :shock: ....I'm thinking it may just bee the 3a option above...joint participation, considering translation.  Not sure everyone will agree.

No, it was the guy that NJ MOm posted... sorry I had stepped out for a second... :lol:

When I read what Klaas posted I immediately thought Chiropractor, non traditional medicine.

After I read what HotShot posted, it confirmed my suspicions.  Holistic healer, most likely a chiropractor.

OK gotta run.. y'all have a great day!! I will BBL!!

NO EVIDENCE?  Are you kidding?!

Luis Delannoy "The Judge of Instructions at a certain moment in the case, did let the suspects free, because the investigation did not give enough evidence to keep them detained, which was the verdict of the court, but also there was no evidence to process anyone and there is still no evidence to summon no one. He thinks the prosecuter still has not enough evidence. "

50 Percent of six-graders too old   :lol:

ARUBA – 50 Percent of all the six-graders is too old, says MPA- leader Monica Kock.  She bases this on the figures of the Education department.  Chances are that these students become drop outs or will start working, because due to their age, they can no longer be admitted on secondary schools.  

MPA is of the opinion that in order to prevent that this development becomes a trend, the government will have to take actions soon.  In 2004-2005, 49.6 percent of the six-graders were older than 12 years; 45.4 percent of the fifth-graders were older; and 43.2 percent of the fourth-graders.  MPA says that the figures are from the Education department.  “The problem is that 14- and 15-year olds are in the same classroom with 11-year olds.  Another problem is that these children are considered too old for the secondary school”, concludes Kock.  She says that chances are that these children become either drop outs or start working.  There are already children that stop going to school after the sixth grade or that do not even finish the last grade of the elementary school.  “We are not only talking about illegal children, but also Aruban natives”, says Kock.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

NO EVIDENCE? Are you kidding?!

Luis Delannoy, President of the Common Court of the Netherland Antilles and Aruba, posted by igsigs: "The Judge of Instructions at a certain moment in the case, did let the suspects free, because the investigation did not give enough evidence to keep them detained, which was the verdict of the court, but also there was no evidence to process anyone and there is still no evidence to summon no one. He thinks the prosecuter still has not enough evidence. "

The WITNESS statements themselves vs the SUSPECT statements are DIRECT EVIDENCE of felony crime.

The signed WITNESS statements of deepak and Satish are evidence that each of them, separately, provided INTENTIONAL FALSE TESTIMONY.  This is perjury.  Note: pvds kept the goon from "signing" his witness statement.

Further, there is direct evidence in the the individual WITNESS statements, and all the statements taken as a whole, that there was an orchestrated CONSPIRACY TO PROVIDE INTENTIONALLY FALSE TESTIMONY.  This too, is a crime.  The crime is "conspiracy."

And lastly, there is further evidence that each of the three can be charged and successfully prosecuted under additional felony level offenses.  These would include OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE and CONTEMPT OF COURT.

Who is delannoy kidding?

(PS: Had to repost this, earlier one mis-fired)

From the civil suit - JANE DOE/MARTINA

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JaneDoeMartina.jpg)

Timeline edited based on tide info found by Sunfreak:

12:32 am: Low tide

5:54 am: High tide. Tide is 7-9 inches higher than at low tide

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4590.0

Klaas...also from the civil filing...did you know that there was a statement given by...

Dilma Arends-Geerman

Nice catch - no I didn't notice that.

I love to do research.  Will somebody give me something to research for this case, please?  ANything is fine!   :D

Great point, Kat.  I just read an article that even when people think they clear out their cell phones, they are not clearing the actual memory.  Might be worth it for the investigators to gather up as many cell phones as possible from ALL involved.
"
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ConsumerActionGuide/3WaysToTossAnOldCellPhone.aspx

And Hi Monkeys!!!

These kids have failed more than 1 grade if they are 14/15 and in the 6th grade - they should be in the 9th.  Children "stop" going to school after 6th grade?  Where are these parents?  What is up with the schools????  No wonder there are such problems with behavior and drugs.  They have nothing else -

Well, i am a Dilma follower. Ever since she said cell records showed that Deepak was back at the HI area at 4am. I am not letting that go! lol

Please refresh my memory on who Dilma is?  TY

She's a reporter, i think. Kinda like a Renfro.

Dilma is Nationa Park Ranger Service Spokesperson - Aruba.  She also was involved with the cell phone tracing announcements, at that time.  Not sure if she's in Renfro's camp, or not, as my memory is muddled after all this time.

and Dilma is tight with both Renfro and Anita VDS, don't forget.

reading that thread hotshot posted makes my skin crawl, I'd still like to know why Charlierat's listing in the Alabama State Bar Association has now disappeared within the last four to six months?

Hi Peaches!
I sent Christal's Mom a printout of all the candle messages.  I figured that she probably did not get a chance to see them during that difficult time.  I wrote her a little note.  I am sure she is missing her immensely.
Hope all is well with you and your family!  Are you visiting colleges yet with your daughter?

She the other skanky reporter in the Vanity Fair article... I think she posts as scuba jap???  

I could be wrong there though...(scubajap, I mean)

Hiya Nonesy!
Can you point me to the thread? Thanks!

Yes, I found that thread interesting in that it shows the long standing ties between families there and here back to the refinery days.   If I ever knew Charlierat's identity, I've forgotten, but it is curious his listing is gone.  

You've also validated my last post, in a way.  I thought I recalled Dilma/Renfro as chums.

Page 7 this thread, Hotshot's link I think is next to last on that page.  

Nice to see you JerseyMom.

Thanks 2NJ.  Great to see you, too.  I am keeping you and your family in my prayers.

Believe it or not mrs. red it's the same guy.

Hi JerseyMom-

I think it's two pages back, hotshot's last post has that link.

Mrs Red-

I think that skanky reporter in the VF article was named Angela, works for BonDia?

2NJSons_Mom-

Charlierat posted his name on SM and other sites, it's not hard to find and the listing was there, and since has been removed? I still say how can you have such beloved feelings for your homeland <in Charlie's case Aruba>, yet not visit there in over a decade?

I think he's a crock IMO

Not his best side, heh?  :lol:  Candid vs. posed... :wink:

THANK YOU!!!!!!  I so appreciate that and I know Chris will too.  Such a nice family to have to endure so much and then to lose the precious girl that was loved by people she never even met thanks to her mother's journal.  I meant to do that and with this stupid tooth problem, I guess I got caught up in my own problems.  Thank you for sending that on to Chris.

Peaches-

How is her family, beyond the obvious tragedy of this, I hope they are holding up well.

I'm going out to eat some seafood, its my birthday..  I then have to get ready for my tennis meeting tonight, I have over 20 members that are showing up..  I have to tell you something funny because there was a member that kept asking me questions about what level everyone was at and she never showed up at the meetings and I was beginning to think she was a poser..  So I finally had enough from her and told her that maybe this group wasn't what she would be interested in joining because we practice in the nude..  After that she never wrote back and I just removed her from the members list.. I hope she doesn't show up to the meeting tonight without a tennis outfit. :D  :D    Got to get ready for lunch..  That CharlieRatA$$ is ...  nope I'm in a good mood and I have promise myself not to let these characters add anymore negativity than I already have about this case..

Thanks None.  I was confused about the skanky reporters I guess... for such a small place sure seems to be a lot of nasty people -

Charlierat ... well that nickname says it all... he is a crock!

Right?  I remember Julia telling me that posting his picture wouldn't be fair to Red... whatever :roll:  

anyone looks great posed and made up... :roll:

That is a curious question for certain: "What's the deal with the shoes?" It is a puzzlement.  For surely nobody who reallly has a size 14 foot can possibly get his/her clodhoppers into a size ten shoe...no way..no how. And it only makes common sense that somebody with Joran's height & bone structure would wear a size 14 and not a ten.  The 'shoe situation' is so peculiar. :?

Peaches, it was an easy thing to do and I am sure it will mean alot to Christal's Mom.  Thanks for letting me 'meet' this wonderful, inpirational little girl and her family.  
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TERRY! You nudist tennis player! :lol:   Lot's of bouncing balls on that tennis court :wink:

I'm sure they're clinging to each other, their faith and their friends.

The female officers popped out of his birthday cake ?

They have been in my prayers...

Terry.



Happy Birthday

Hi Ono!  I doubt it.  Remember how much he hated the Dutch interrogators.. He said they were trying to 'trick' him.  And with his lack of respect for females, it must have irked him to be questioned by a female.

Mrs Red-

You know I guess you don't choose the username with rat in it, if you're anything akin to a nice guy?  :lol:

Klaas-

I know we looked at the european shoe size charts? Was that what explained that differential? I know I wear a 10 in US and a 42 in european - but what was the size conversion for a 14 men's?

Here's a cool website with details on Christal's Luau party....
Lots of great pictures.  

http://jennyrebecca.typepad.com/

[/b]

this is why I have always been so skeptical of Greta and the whole I tend to believe him garbage.... I think she just wanted the other two to do her show... that she was trying to butter them up or so...

Most probably already building a defense case right here.

Thank you for sharing that, I am so glad she had that happy night.

thanks for sharing that!

Mrs Red-

You are likely right about the buttering up and playing to the suspect's, but I also have to say I am unsure if Greta cared about the impact to Natalee or the family. I guess that's my largest issue with her but then I am an idealist, not a ratings monger.

Thanks for the wishes and cheer..  It seems that the group is a bunch of nice people so far and they all seemed to have common interest in other things too..  The group was made up of people in the West Palm Beach area and then some how I got to be the organizer and I made it down the street from where I live.. I need to add a drain to the end of one of my driveways, its keeping water and the driveway has to be pressure cleaned to remove all the mud..  It seems that I been getting people interested in buying my house and hopefully soon.. I knew as soon as I started a club, I would sell the house and then have to move..  I'm going to home depot and buy some PVC pipe and a large drain and just dig a hole to put a 5 gal bucket with a lid filled with gravel and hopefully that will work.. It worked at my other house but I had a storm drain to drain too..

None and Mrs. Red, you are both right.  Has Greta said anything recently about the case?

I don't interpret that to be literal - as in a 'place'...I think he only means she was by then ready for whatever had been planned to do to her.

I think that RatA$$ says the name is short for Ratcliff or something like that..  His value is zero ->null -empty-vapor..

I just think it means she was offered a drink by him while they were having sex...

Happy Birthday, Terry.  Hope it's a great one.

(http://bestsmileys.com/birthday1/21.gif)

Yes, I did go back to research and found the name... :wink:

Happy Birthday Terry......was trying to get something together in the lounge for you soon......but for now

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/nonesuche/DaisySistahs/slider_bdayparty.gif)

Now, that should be in the statement, don't you think?  :wink:

Sunfreak: Can you help me with satellite map(s) I want to add to the timeline?

Exactly it is the problem we all have I think... and I simply cannot fathom a woman Greta's age and intelligence being taken in by the "delicious sporter".... and yuck.. who describes their son that way??

terry - you sneaky little squirrel !!!!  Was you going to try to get by without letting us know about your birthday!!! :D

Happy Happy Happy Birthday!!!

http://www.kswiss.com/kswiss/sizechart.html

49 Europe and 13 UK

A nut that's who.

Gotta go.  So nice seeing y'all this morning.  I am amazed at the depth of information on the Monkey site.  Y'all are doing a great job!  Keep the faith and I will pop back when I can.  Hugs to all!

Hugs To you...

I mean doesn't that just skeeve you out???

It sure does and thank god someone else uses the word skeeve :lol:

yes it does me Mrs Red, grosses me out totally.....but it's a real peek inside Anita's psyche and I guess we need to see how wacko that might be?

jerseymom, good to see you too!

I have to agree with ya'll.  Greta only cared about what would help HER - ratings/viewership.  She had no concern about the family or any impact it may have - it sickens me beyond all.  She sold her soul to the devil - so to speak.  I wonder if she has a conscience?

FYI - regarding the statements that I have translated.  As I see corrections to areas that I've noted with a (?) I'm posting them below the statement.  Keep in mind, just because someone (Dutch) makes a correction does not mean their correction is correct (if you know what I mean :wink: ).

I think that it is an insight into how they think on that island...  or maybe how jvds got so angry... or something.. it just makes me think it's a clue into the family dynamic, especailly coupled with how he treats the parents when we see him on CA, etc... he pets his mom's head and kisses the top of her head like she is the child...

That whole family is just disgusting.  They aren't worth the air they breathe.

I think I have to make a decision here and say they should be put out of their misery.  Worthless POS.

Klaas-

Don't you worry, we TRUST YOUR TRANSLATIONS  :wink:


Mrs Red-

To quote you and San, just a bunch of fat heads  :lol:

LMAO!!

Klaasend  - you do a great job!!

Excellent (as usual) !!  
What has transpired is really mind numbing, isn't it Hammer ?

He didn't pay his current dues ?  :roll:

I think she sold her soul to the devil a long time ago when she associated herself with that cult that is willing to claim Tom Cruise and a bunch of those other nuts.  JMO

Ono-

The listing was in Bessemer, just outside of Birmingham? Isn't that area predominately rural and close to the steel mill? Or do I have it wrong?

Hey this Italian believes your translations.  If someone Dutch wants to make a correction that is very nice of them to do so but it doesn't mean I'm going to believe it.

Sort of like this:

Klaas: Murderer = Joran
Dutch: Murderer = Beach bum

Who would you believe.

 :D HAPPY BURFDAY TERRY ! ~

Peaches-

You need tylergal here to high-five you on that one ! I know she's been very outspoken regarding that element, I just know that she did the same thing to a degree, to Sharon Rocha.

It does appear to be her pattern, lure the victim in, then slap them.

San  :lol:  :lol:

Did you get your gun out early today? ROFL

Well I have to go hunt down the missing workman if I'm ever to get this place ready for sale.........thanks for all of your hard work Klaas and for the monkeys that stay the course with this.

Oh O/T but I made a birthday thread for terry in the lounge  :wink:

No doubt he thought he could 'snow' them since he is so difficult to resist.  :lol:

You are our priceless Italian!  ROFLMAO!!

FYI - Rammstein at BFN has posted his translation of the Joran 8/8 statement.  I have posted it in the Important Case Document thread and highlighted the areas I had difficulties with.

 :lol: Surely it's somewhere in The Dossier.

Babelfish translation - San's Italian equation

murderer = assassino  (2 X an ass)

bum = bum

as they say, same difference (yogiism)

Yep peaches.... I agree with that too....They love anyone who is willing to give them lots of cash.  Nuts is right!

 :lol:

i get u Klass...but then again i am on the wacky tobaccy..lol
on library puter today...can't stay long

mrs. red sending u a hug and a happy meal

I'll look it up...anything past Montgomery has always been a blur to me except for T-Town & B'ham proper ~! I think I've always associated Bessemer with rural. Alabama is really three different main areas, you know..all different mindsets, etc. No offense to Bessemer but it's never been on my "must see" list.

I am starting to think it is just the aruban version of hospitality and duplicity

as well as customary courtesy

yep... they are so damn busy scamming the happy meal, they leave the filet on the table...

 :lol:  :lol:  :shock:

very odd behavior indeed.....i really think that whole island has lost its friggin mind.

None:

Don't know where the steel mills are located but Mapquest says that Bessemer is 15.7 miles ( Southwest ) from B'ham.  Never really associated Bessemer with B'ham, however-- two different personalities...just always knew it was up there somewhere...sorta close to B'ham...LOL!

I AM SOOOOOOOOOO  GLAD THEY WERE NICE TO BETH
Hopefully they were helpful too.

Isn't 10.5 ABNORMALLY small for someone of Joran's height?

great post sunfreak....yep..the cops r so guilty of disposing of her body

BBL y'all...

Made a slight modification to my flow chart  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/GuiltyFlow2.jpg)

Klaassend

Do you think it would be possible to do a couple route maps similar to the ones in the timeline thread sticky, except using sattellite photos?

Also, can you use Google Earth scale info to figure out the exact distance from FH to Marriott?  I'm pretty sure it's 0.6 miles but I've read different figures and want to be certain I have it right.

Shizaru - I'll see what I can do but may not get to it right away.  I've got some "real" work to do today.

Just happened to think, maybe this is something Sunfreaks could do for you?  She's gotten real good at Google Earth and is looking for a project!

O/T - 7-ELEVEN FIRES BACK AT VENEZUELA'S CHAVEZ, DROPS CITGO AS GAS SUPPLIER TO STORES

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com for more

I posted that idea earlier today when she was online but maybe she didn't  see it.  I don't have her e-mail addy, could you ask her to e-mail me

Shizaru - if I can find her email address in my 10,000 emails in my inbox I will..ha ha

Joran is abnormal.  He is a freak.

To answer your question yes it is abnormal and I do not believe that is his shoe size.

My younger nephew (17) is 5.10 and he wears an 12
My older nephew (23) 6.1 and he wears 13.

Correction younger nephew is 18 :lol:

I was going to answer this, earlier, but wasn't sure what normal is....Maybe it's all genetic...my older son is 6'1" and wears a 10.5, and the younger is 5'11" and wears a 9.5.  Yet, they have friends who are around the same height or a little taller who wear 14 and up.  I'm 5'9" and wear 8.5 but my sister at 5'7" wears a 10, and my hubby is 5'10" and wears a 9.5...but these are all US sizes....Maybe the sporter inherited his mother's feet, in addition to her complexion :wink: ...though at his height, you'd think he'd fall over.. :lol:

Hi Monkeys,

Oh my, shoe sizes. There is an old saying. Not sure exactley how it goes.
The size of the shoe refect the size of the penis. Could be a reason for wearing a shoe to big for the foot. LOL

I do not think it has to do with the difference between European and US size charts.

I want to see Freddys statemment. Is it coming soon?

let's see now,,,,,,, what fits into a gym bag nicely ?   Shoes,,, tennis shoes ?   Size 13 tennis shoes ???  where are the obviously 'incriminating' shoes Paulus?   you ass-wipe


''Go Cowboys"'  !!!!!

Looks like he did fall over a few times :lol:

I can see understand a person being 6'1" and wearing a 10.5.  When you add 4 more inches it just doesn't jive.

I was staying away from that saying about foot size....and encountered some websites while looking at international shoe size charts besides the K-Swiss one Klaasend posted.   The thought did enter my mind about wearing a shoe too big....kind of like the pants hanging on cheeks, etc.   :wink:

bbl...got to get some things done..

My hubby is 5'5" and wears a 9.5 or 10!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :shock:  :D  :shock:
NOOOOO.......u have another job besides keeping the monkeys from
flinging pooh!!!!  ?????  i am in shock Klass!!!

THIK......good thought on the shoes.....wonder what dumpster paulus threw them in......

see u monkeys later
time for my meds...lol :lol:

Sure, tell me what you want.  I probably have a bunch of them already.

A lot of the pyscho nuts have a weird relationship with their Mamas. That's just another notch on Joran's belt of socio-pyschopathology.

This might be a bit of a project...

What I'd like is a couple maps just like the two below, with routes marked, except using satellite photos

Joran Version

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/JoransRoute.jpg)

Kalpoe Version

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/DeepaksRoute.jpg)


and including ONLY the following locations

CnC
Joran's House
La Cabana
HI
Marriott
Raquet Club
Fishermens Huts
Deepak Relief Spot
Lighthouse
also Kalpoe home if that will fit on the map

and not essential but would also be good if for Marriott and Huts map gave their distance from HI

:D    Happy Birthday Terry           :D

The distance from the side road immediately north of the Marriott to the next side road Noth (at the FH) is 0.18 miles.  It is approximately 0.6 miles from the FH to the pool area of the HI, which is where she would have had to go to enter the HI from the beach.

I am behind and reading trying to catch up.

Few things:

I sent Shizaru Sunfreak's address with her permission of course.

Sorry I missed Jerseymom!  

Klaas, I would imagine the "Dutch" is much like the English in some of the instances we have encountered in dealing with Arubans.  It is not the best in the first place thence you may have variables.  They speak it, sure, but how well?  And writing it is a whole 'nother ballgame.  Don't get me wrong, I respect multilingual people highly and admire them tremendously but am just saying that language does not seem to be a high priority in Aruba and I suspect they take liberties with all four that are used there.

Feet are one of the things that continue to grow our whole lives.  Also noses and ears.  But feet especially are made to grow from the support of the weight.  I have a son who is 6'3" or 4" not sure and he wears a size eleven.  And has narrow feet.  Several ankle injuries.

Joran plays tennis and that requires tight fitting shoes as if there is any play you will get blisters like anything.  His feet do look rather small to me.  I think he was lying about the Size 14 and knows Satish wears a 10.5.  Therefore he, Joran, must NOT wear that size in case footprints of a size 10.5 or shoes are found, he could say not his, too small must belong to Satish or Deepak.

Have to work and finish catching up reading posts but will be back eventually.

Anyone hear from Easy yet?  

.

.
Just a random thought but does anyone else ever think Joran might be just stone cold crazy?  I mean as in insane??  That boy just ain't right!  And I am not talking about in a way to be used as a defense, just a mean, mad dog kind of nutcase?

The more I read, the more I wonder. . . . . . . . . . .

BBAfter a bit of work and reading.

.

Why, indeed?  Had something been sent to his phone that was of concern to Freddy and the older PIMPS that needed to be made to disappear?  

What if someone actually DID steal the phone and are now in possession of some sort of actual physical evidence?  I know it is too much to hope for but if the phone was really lost and there were photos of what happened that night, it is a thought and one sure to keep the PIMPs awake at night.  Nah, nothing would do that because they know they will never be prosecuted.  But it is a thought.

Among many thoughts. . . .

Yes Anna I do think he is insane.  He is not right and we all know this.  Why that island would want to jeopardize everything over an insane individual just boggles my mind.  He is not worth it.

probably a big issue with the KIA fire exit controversy,,
no one can read 'exit' to get out anyway,,  so why have it. :roll:

idiots !   They're so wrapped up in their 'false reality', they can't see
themselves swooshing down the toilet....

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/exactly-1.gif)



I do not like the tone of that article at all.  Is he saying this has already been decided that there is nothing more that could be done, the ALE just did a splendid job and the judges had no choice but to come ot the conclusions they did?

WRONG!!

.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thditto.gif)


Igs,
Ditto!  We used to get more info on her from scubajap but Dilma did say a lot of things early on, didn't she??  Was she just lying or did they alter the phone records with the assistance of certain parties?

.

In terms of the "sneakers".....

IIRC, the initial story of the 'sneakers' came from a transcript where we were told that a 'single' sneaker, without a partner, was found in Joran's closet during the (ahem) 'search'.

This sneaker had blood on it -- that was not Joran's. (I don't remember if they mentioned testing for Nat's blood -- I think so, and it was negative). They never did tell us 'who's' blood it was.

I think it was 'assumed' to be Joran's sneaker. Or maybe Joran told the police it was his sneaker.

Was it a size 14?

But Joran wears a 10.5?

What if it wasn't Joran's to start with? Then who's?

I don't know how the story evolved to '2 sneakers' -- or where the size was first mentioned.

I won't have time to look for the transcript until tonight -- so if anyone remembers and can find it, please post it -- as it was the original mention of this 'sneaker'.

What if it wasn't Joran's :?:

O/T -- Authorities confirm a bomb squad and SWAT team sent to a school in Bailey, Colorado, after shots reported, The Associated Press reports.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com

It could have been one of his brothers or Deepak (not sure if Deepak wears sneakers), Freddy & Satish.

San said:
It could have been one of his brothers or Deepak (not sure if Deepak wears sneakers), Freddy & Satish.

Exactly San!

Or Koen's or Sander's.

Or maybe it came from the 'gym bag'?

But who's blood? And how did it get on the sneaker? And why was it in Joran's closet?

IMO, that's what Joran is smirking about whenever Greta or anyone else brings up his sneaker.

I don't think it was Joran's sneaker.

jmo
.

Or Paulus?

Did he call daddy to come to get him because something bad had happened to the girl and Paulus got his shoes wet in some way?

I don't know what's with the shoes but I do tend to agree with Mrs Red that I would not be one bit surprised if he were wearing them for the Greta interview in which he just insisted we all take a look.

Might even be a red herring thrown out by Joran.  Will just continue to watch and see if anything more develops in this regard.   :?

If You Find The Sporters Clogs You Will Find Natalee Holding Sanders Phone In Her Hand ....................

 :roll:

Fastow gets 6 years - unfreakingbelieveable!!!!!!!!

This a-hole should be tried for murder and executed.


unreal.

PHONES PHONES PHONES ..........................

Deepaks Unsolicited Remark Concerning NO Minutes & Sanders MIA Cell Phone Has Me Thinking That Natalee Just May Have Gotten A Call Off Before Her Demise.....................

It Would Be Nice That The Management Being They Speak With The Holloways/Twittys To Clear Up The Clouded Part Of What We Are Trying To Accomplish Here ..........

There Are Many Pending Questions That Have No Answers & We Bat Our Brains Out Trying To Solve This Fiasco...

 :roll:

OK, I will see what I can do.

Just got here, so maybe SunFreak has seen your posts already, but I e-mailed them to her just now, just in case she hasn't.

Looking up, I see I'm a day late and a dollar short.  But it's the thought that counts!   :roll:

Yes, I do.  I think he boosts his ego, pride, self image by conning people, lying, hurting them, using them.  Some people feel good if they finish a project at home or work, some feel good after doing some volunteer work at an animal shelter, homeless shelter, at church, some feel good after an evening with the family or friends.   Joran feels good if he's suckered someone, hurt someone.  He uses people, lies, to get what he wants, but what he really wants is to use, lie, and hurt others.  This is what makes him superior in his twisted mind.  

LilPuma Freud over and out.

I agree Widget and this is where Joran did sometging bad.

Howdy all~!

Sharon.. if you are still here.. could you email me?
Angiex911dsptchr@aol.com  
 Thanks!!  :) :) :)

I can only imagine what he thinks of Beth for having gotten the attention of the US media, gotten so much information out there that shows the world what the Sloots and their Aruban friends are really like, and gotten enough support from the right people (and a lot of us little people) to put a successful boycott together.  Convicted or not, Joran will live with the suspicion that he's a rapist and murderer.  He clearly has qualms about coming to the US to go to school as planned.  His family has been embarrassed on an international level.  He took her daughter and she is taking him.  One piece at a time.   :evil:

Happy Birthday, Terry[/list]

I know Shizaru has you working on a map, but if you have time, find something on the Judges.  Think Al Pacino "NO, YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER".   :D

Deepak's Version

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/DeepaksMap.jpg)

Distance from CnC's to:
LaCabana - 2.76 miles
Marriott (road just north) - 4.95 miles
Deepak's relief spot - 7.0 miles
Lighthouse - 7.95 miles

To fit all of the above onto one map, one loses the deatil of the satellite images.  I can break it down into smaller pieces with more detailed views.  Let me know what you think and want.

Is this show taped a day before?  Isn't Beth on Nancy Grace tomorrow? :?

Yes, but don't forget the time difference.  Right now is tonight in Holland.  So at about 2pm PST Beth should be on Jensen's show.  NG does not come on until 5pm PST.  My guess is Beth has taped the show with Jensen and then Nancy Grace will video her in from Holland live.

Ol, how about breaking it up into three pieces    

#1 A: CnCs to just south of Hotel Zone (Joran's Version)

Shows both possible routes to Montanja, then west back to main road

#1 B: CnCs to just south of Hotel Zone (Kalpoe Version)

Loop around Plaza, then straight north past Cabana


#2: Hotel Zone: HI to Marriott,/FH/ Raquet Club

and don't forget distances for HI and FH  

#3: North of Hotel Zone

WHat exactly does this mean....anyone have any idea??

"He was faced once again with the declaration of the girl Martina, who was given something to drink, offered at the sexual comunity with him and as a result of which her lips tingled"

what the hell is the sexual community?

Blah - according to Rammstein at BFN that sentance translates as follows:

He was again confronted with the statement of the girl Martina, who was offered a beverage during the sexual relations that caused her lips to feel tingly.
The suspect did not respond.

Note:  Always check the Important Case Document thread because I post clarifications below the statement as the Dutch posters make them.  :wink:

On 1-18-06, Steve Cohen said, "The pieces of the jigsaw puzzle have come together and we’re beginning to see a picture now, a picture that we did not see three months ago. There do not seem to be any pieces missing any longer.” ......"Two of the boys have said that they had consensual sex with Natalee and whether it’s consensual or not, we need to know more about her physical abilities. Was she conscious?” he said......“We have 15,000 pages of testimony and 120 hours of video.”


OK, Steve, if you have all the pieces of the puzzle, where is Natalee? Why aren't J2K serving their prison sentence?  

So the Dutch team coming in expects to read this 15,000 pages and watch the 120 hours of video in a week or two's time?  (And this is before the MB kids were interviewed, before Guido & GvC were arrested.)  Then they are going to do their own investigation?     :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

I suspicion it's a juxtaposition of 'He propositioned her'.

Ok, saw Klaas clarification, during sexual activity.

hmm klaas thanks.

Either way it is interesting that he did not respond to that.  

Clear evidence of 1 of the 20 times before.  No denial or attempt to clarify.  

Yet this punk is still allowed to roam the streets.

There should be WELL OVER 120 hours of video of Joran ALONE.  If he was question 10+ hours a day like he claimed, thats only 12 days of interrogations.  Add to that all of the other witnesses/suspects, should be well over 120 hours.

This must have been the time he was sitting there with his fingers in his ears.

That alone is proof that he drugs his victims.

Before we get all tied up with the beach and Marriott time line...from Joran and Satish's June 18th statement:
On 18 June 2005 around 17.50 we have confrontations, suspect Satish S. Kalpoe and the suspect Joran A.P. Van Der Sloot, face to face with each other.

At this confrontation the suspect Satish S. Kalpoe explained that he recognized the suspect Joran A.P. Van Der Sloot as a person. The suspected Satish S. Kalpoe explained during the confrontation that the suspect Joran Van Der Sloot lied because on 30 May 2005, after they left Carlos & Charlies with Natalee, they did not go to the house of the suspect Joran Van Der Sloot.

The suspect Satish Kalpoe requested the suspect Joran Van Der Sloot tell the truth. The suspect Joran Van Der Sloot said during the confrontation that they had firstly driven to his house and said the suspect Satish Kalpoe is the one that is not telling the truth.

Then...

From Nancy Grace in September 2005

I want to go back to Beth Twitty and ask you, Beth, is there anywhere to go at this juncture?

TWITTY: Well, Nancy, I actually think there is, and I`ve had five of Joran`s statements that are printed in Dutch translated for me. You know, he states specifically in one of his statements, he prefaced it with, well, now, my third statement was not true, now here`s the truth. We drove -- I drove Natalee to my home at 1:40 a.m. on May 30th. He says he has sex with her. You know, if kidnapping -- and she`s coming in and out of consciousness when -- as he`s describing her in these statements.

Why did Satish ask about how the girl was doing....before they even knew Natalee was missing???  (if she was only dropped at the beach??)

None and mrs. red
Thought was that scubajap is Angela Munzenhofer (from Aruba Today).

Sunfreak

Instead of a chiropracter...do you think the good doctor could be a doctor of psychology...as in maybe Joran's counselor??

Good Day Monkeys :)

How / when can we see / hear or read Beth's interview from Holland ???

O/T -- A hostage situation at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado, is over after police stormed the school, CNN affiliate KUSA reported. The station said the gunman is dead.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com

Hi Oldfart,

According to Jensen's show today, Beth will be on his show tomorrow.  It appears Jensen puts his shows up on his website after the fact so in a couple days we should be able to watch it.  In the mean time, I'll be watching other sites tomorrow and see what their reaction is to the show.  Also tomorrow, Beth will be on Nancy Grace.

Good. The world is a better place than it was earlier.

One of the female student hostages was critically injured and flow by helicopter to the hospital.

hopefully she will make a full recovery.  Luckily she will not have to ever face this POS again since he did the world a favor and died.

Buckeye
Interesetting you posted about Joran's house ... I was just reading Satish's 5/31 statement in which he states


A few conflicts with what Deepak had to say on 5/31 too

Klaasend
thanks for the info on Beth's invterview...

Anyone know which road they took to get back to beach road (Irasquin/LG Smith) from Joran's house?  Did they come out at the Radisson, or the HI, or south of the Marriott or north of the Marriott?

THANKS.

oldfart

I believe it happened at the house...there may have been a coverup on some beach...but I believe she was at the house...

O/T Daniel Smith toxicology back.  Overdose of methadone, lexapro and zoloft causing irregular heart rhythm (from People on line).

Klaasend
You you ask whoever has these statements  to please, pretty please,
look for Joran's 5/31 statement, and move it to the top of the to-be-translated list.... : Please

TIA

[/b]Buckeye[/b]
Was'nt Momma K' working that night... What time did she get in?  
Just Wondering

I don't think so, Buckeye.  The blurb from Klaasend said he practiced Integrative medicine.  Integrative medicine is usually chiropractic and non-traditional/holistic medicine. At least it is in the States.

 :oops: Can you ask.. :oops:

Can we hold a fund raiser to bring back the edit button  :lol:  :lol:  :wink:

I'll ask  :wink:

I agree, Blah.  I thought they were interrogating Joran 10 hours a day and making videos of all the interrogations.  Me thinks ALE was telling tall tales again.  So now we now, they disposed of the most damaging videos.   :x  :x  :x

Just something I noticed

How would Natalee know sharks are on the North side of the island (are they?  I think not)



Isn't Malmok North of the Hotel  that they were headed for?

Has anyone got a like to what Joran talked about on 5/30 to the police, and C. Croes ???
TIA

About both I hope..  If not   statement 1st.. please. then the fund raiser.. :wink:

Oldfart - Malmuk is north of the hotels and the Fisherman's Huts on the way towards the Lighthouse.  Malmuk is where Koen lives.

Thanks Klaasend

I just found this too

I also just found this
From Paul van der Sloot's Changing Story
Thursday, June 30, 2005 FOX News http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html

Thanks

O/T  

Our little sock monkey mom and family’s flight departed on time and they are now in the friendly skies!  I hope those sock monkeys don’t come back talkin’ funny!

Bon Voyage BT and I hope you have a fun, safe trip!  I also hope airport security doesn’t do a strip search on those monkeys! lol

Hey Easy
I saw where she was headed off  and was wondering if she got a Sock Monkey sitter or if they were going along too.
And do hope she left those crazy squirrels some or or she may not have a house to come back to :wink:

Easy, We were about ready to send out a search party on you. Had no idea how to find you just that your front yard was mowed by a tattoed ******* and you might be interested in his MIL. LOL

Glad Bts flight was on schedule. Hope she has a wonderful time.

AMEN to this ENTIRE post!  :wink:

 :oops: left those crazy squirrels some FOOD (not Sock Monkeys)   :oops:[/u]

I’ve just been kind of beat this week and crashing kind of early.  I also have very little to add to the discussion except all these statements make these creeps look guilty as hell!  How they were ever turned loose and allowed to go wherever they like is beyond me!

[quote="Buckeye
"....snip....None and mrs. red
Thought was that scubajap is Angela Munzenhofer (from Aruba Today)...snip...."

You may want to ask Red. IIRC, he met scubajap in Aruba and said something about her looking like Angelina Jolie.

Yep, those monkeys went along for the ride and I bet there will be some splainin' to do goin' through customs! lol

If those sock monkeys meet the Queen, they will have an attitude.

lol  I wonder if they will come back with those tall fuzzy hats!

Think that was Native Lingo.

Exactly SunFreak where are the videos.  I had read that it was the law to tape those interrogations.

Nooooooooooooo.... Angela is scuba jap... I had it wrong this morning... and it was NATIVELINGO that looks like Angelia Jolie... Red didn't meet Angela..  I gotta go read back... :shock:

Those things ? Can't remember what they are called.
If we know BT girl, they will have lots of new clothes and toys...  and they will say stupid things like " We are not amused " " Pip pip old chap !! "

I think you're right. Thanks.

Old Fart, I went to that link and must be a dunce because it said Paulus changing story but the story there was all about Charles Croes.

One other thing, in a couple of those early statements of Joran to the investigators, Joran describes all the sexual activity with Natalee. It sounded to me like he was getting a kick out of describing this. Like maybe he was trying to make the investigators jealous.

Also in the link to the Charles Croes interview, I really do get the impression that Joran really does not recognise Natalee per sey. She is just one more American tourist and they all look alike to him. JMHO

By the way we all need an edit button. LOL

I've read a little about this new Scared Monkey Radio Network and it sounds interesting.  When will we hear more about it?

Easy
It is because our systems are so different and who was involved.

I'm still amazed that they were held that long and the ALE could not figure it out.. Here the police have just a few days before they would have to charged or released
Wonder what would happen to our crime rate if we could detain someone for almost a week OR more  without being charged.

I sure would like to know who Scubajap is, I enjoyed conversing with the poster a bit, even though eventually the poster went heavily into the aruban point of view and strategy on things.

Based on his interviews/statements it would have been somewhere south of the HI, since he describes asking her if she wanted to get out there when they passed it, and he said the white car turned off the road at the HI.   He hasn't been more specific than that so just use your best judgement as to exactly which road.

Nancy Grace is reporting a young girl who was apparently shot in the head is dead.  It is an confirmed report.

After all these months and what we have all learned about Aruba’s prehistoric attitude toward women, my thoughts are that Joran was trying to minimize the importance of this little blonde girl from America in the eyes of those boulder headed cops.  Plus, there seems to be a little braggadocio in the punk’s words.

I'm very sorry to hear that.  So sad.  :cry:

Soon Im Sure.

Also a quick reminder about my Friday Show This Week.
Upcoming Special Guests On The Dana Pretzer Show.

Next Live Show

Friday September 29th 8:30pm et

Feature On Missing Person Cole Jackson

Then at 9pm et.

My guest will be Steve Hodel the author of Black Dahlia Avenger

www.cbandtalk.net

I went back and read Paulus's statments. A part that I never noticed before is that he admits calling Guido. He says the purpose of the call was to find out if Joran had won that money that he changed into florins.
Why would he be concerned about the gambing at such a time ?
What info was he trying to get in or out of Guido ?
Him talking to Guido was early on because Guido left Aruba in June of 2005 or maybe early July.
Now how did the ALE know there was a call ?
Did they have cell records from Paulus, Guido or did Guido volunteer that tid bit ?
WHY is  ( and I knows the answer ) Paulus being the director here ?
Joran is a bad actor and Paulus is the director. Who's in charge of make up ?

Did Joran receive money from someone.  Paulus probably knows Joran is a bad gambler.  I wonder how much money he is talking about.  Did Joran pass Natalee on to someone for money?

Dana... I am so excited about that show!

I’m especially looking forward to the Hodel interview.  I’ve seen him on several programs over the years and he has a very convincing theory about what happened to Elizabeth Short.

Okay, tell us if you guys are working on a regular lineup!  Will the schedules float, or can we expect definite times with various hosts?

It would be nice because Joran is so concerned about finding the truth.?

That his family made a large donation to texas equsearch to bring them back to continue seraching for Natalee..

Yeah right hell will freeze over sometime. But then again those that know the truth and wont tell it will all end up there anyway.

Those details are all being worked out.

Just peeking in and wanted to say hello!
Ya'll seem to be as savy as ever! I'll be lurking and trying to catch on to what's happening.........

Hey CBB.... we have been trying to figure out one of your clues in the movie trivia thread....


good to see you!

 yes, I think we solved this entire case within two weeks last summer...

Off topic, For many years I was a Surgical technologist. Our lounge was a shared lounge. Meaning both the Surgeons and the Nurses shared it with seperate locker rooms. There was a bulletin board in there. So one day in the 70's a notice apeared on the bulletin board about sexual harrassment. Sort of what it was and how to report it.

We had this one joker surgeon who wrote beneath the notice.
[/b]Screw them if they can't take a joke I was in the lounge at the time he wrote it and I said" Oh my God, that looks like my handwriting." So he signed my name. LOL

Klaas I just wanted to say you are right Beth will be on Nancy Grace live from the Netherlands.

It was only a couple of hundred bucks or florins. Nothing real big.
The amount of interference by Paulus is what my point was.
And that money was won on the Monday, according to Joran's statements.  For all I know, maybe he went home and stole it outta Paulus's wallet. There was the part that was in Dos Santos statement about a trip home that Joran made with Guido.

Mrs. Red,
I've missed everybody.
I'm sure the monkeys had it nailed within a year ago! Now if we could just figure out how to get Aruba/Holland to hold the guilty ones accountable!

PS: The movie is solved and more is posted.  :wink:

Well I got my theory about her being run over from reading you and Tyler and Anna and AzLady I think that worked on the back seat of the van statements....

You are so right  CBB ! ! !
Why can't they see it  ?
How any one, including those bad side of town women ( you all know who I am talking about ) could look at that and defend him is beyond me. Most of them are not silly little girls, but grown up women with kids Joran's age.

Many of these people and their culture really bother me.  I understand the easygoing island mentality found in many places, but this chit goes way over the top!  Some moral values have to be instilled at an early age so there is a foundation upon which to build character.  That ain’t happening on that friggin island.

I also read somewhere about some outfit building and buying casinos in Aruba and lining up entertainment.  Jimmy Buffet was mentioned as a possible headliner.  If that has any truth to it, we all need to have a talk with that Alabama boy!

SAM

Not sure why Fox  named it that way...except by then the 2nd story was in full swing..
I hope this makes some since ...
I think Natalee was getting a ride back to the hotel from someone staying there too.  
Sometime during that ride.. it gets prolonged by the boys asking would you like to see Sharks or the Lighthouse at night before we go to the hotel.
AND
I have a gut feeling that the HI. drop off story is the 2nd story not the 1st.
The beach drop off is the 1st. story fabricated 05/30 in the early am.

Why?
If we are correct they had to have a story ready... Monday or Tueday something simple for Natalee being missing.. "I left her on the beach"

BUT when Beth & company showed up so early they had to buy time with a new story.
The Kaalpoes interview of 5/31 have reference to the beach drop off in that they are asked if Joran got out with Natalee there.

I assume Joran mentioned it in his interview earlier the same day BUT we do not have his interivew.  If HE DID mention it WHY?  
Turth or part of the cover story that was already in place.
If he did not mention it Why the hell did the police ask about it?

Think about it..
you have a simple story that needs a day or so to happen and then you have BOOTS on the ground & in your face.

I'm at the point with Satish asking how the gril was.. that they left her alive some place and maybe even with someone  or at least close to other people that the blame could fall on.

But Pappa in now aware that their story will not hold chit and gets involved.

JMO of course

If I promise not to ask everything I'd need to know to catch up, can I just ask why Beth is in the Netherlands? TIA

She is there giving an interview with Jensen...

Thank you!!  :D

He is like their verision of Greta.... I guess..

Honestly, I think his show is normally NOT serious.  I did see one serious interview on his website though.  The good news is that as of yesterday, Beth said his people were treating her very nicely.  

Because of the time difference, the show will air tomorrow late afternoon for most of you.  There are several Dutch posters on various sites that plan on watching it so we should know by this time tomorrow how it went.  Jensen should also have the taped show on his website in a couple of days.

Mrs Red

Could you let Crazybabyborg know that I thought of here (and others) with this grpahic
 :wink: (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/red_betty_4.gif)

TIA

Exactly - like telling us several times how much he can drink while the American kids that come there can't handle it.  I'm surprised he's not portrayed like a national hero - tickertape parade and all when he comes home from Holland since his behavior is condoned, excused or blamed on others.

O/T the girl in CO died...the one that was held hostage.

Why, thank you Oldfart!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/SEXY-WINK-BOOP.gif)

y'all are making me blush... :lol:

So sad..........so needlessly cruel.

No..If I post the full graphic... not just one frame you will Blush

IF anyone sees Katz... please tell her that I need my banned sticker back... or Klaasend do you happen to have it in your handy dandy bag of Klaas tricks??

Ok... I need to run out and get to bed early tonight... I have been warned that tomorrow is going to be brutal!

Good night monkeys....

keep the faith!

Not sure...let me check

I'll email it to you!

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/bannedfromarubasm1.jpg)

Is Mrs. Red  refering to SantaKlaas  :shock: ??   :lol:  :lol:

If So I want Natalee, Justice for Natalee or an Edit Button

I want Joran, Deepak, Satish, Paulus and Freddy. Plus Dompig in jail.

Plus Anita and Julia.

Have any of you seen this show on E! called “Curse of the Lottery?”  Does that kind of stuff make you feel good or bad?  Just curious……

I'll add Van der Straaten and Dennis Jacobs.

Sorry Kat

I want a few more in jail... but this is a start  :wink:

Personally I don't think they took any road back to the beach road because I think Joran is lying about them going to his house, I believe 2k that they went stright down the main road, at least as far north as the Deepak relief spot.

HI Monkeys!!! How's everyone? I miss u guys!

Just poppong in to say helloooooooo!! :D

Hi ozzies how are you.

I'm good, I've been all over the place being single again and all but I missed u guys!!! How r u doing?

Good Evening all!   Is Joran in jail yet?  I guess not.

I'm doing well.  Typing with two hands :D

Here are 2 maps for your approval.  :D  :roll:  :wink:


The High Rise Hotel Area:
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/HotelAreaMap2.jpg)

Joran's routes:
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/JoransMap.jpg)

Well, there are a few lawyers who I would like to see in there.
I just went to Terry's page in the lounge and looked at the sock monkey trials and tribulation with Terry as the Hero Squirrel. :lol:  :lol:
It is so cute.
btw... what is an AARP card ?  :?

Ozzies!  Good to see you again.

Ozziesmom!!  Good to see you here...long time no see...

Hi lala's!! What happened to the tiara's? I've been out of the loop!

San glad to hear that your typing with two hands again!!

I know, I'm ashamed to call myself a monkey! But I always think about u guys!! A lot has been going on, nothing bad just life in general!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/chettigal/ozzieyard.jpg)

Ozzie says hello too!! Isn't he too cute, he missed u guys too.

awwwe " ber rur rur rur rur ozzie!!"  :wink:

Ozziesmom   HI ya...  Good to see you and  Is being single again good or bad  :?

And YES  tiara's are OUT OF STYLE

SunFreak   great pics..

HI Mrs2!! How's the cage? what did I miss?

definaletly good in this situation! haha, No more settling!!!!

How r u? OF? Still holding down the fort?

Thanks...

Could you make the La Cabana route by Joran dashed or a different color?  Other than that the maps look perfect


'd read the distance netween FH and Marriott was .06 miles, interesting that it's only a third of that distance.  Joran sure doesn't have a very good sense of scale, he claimed that Deepak's car was "300 yards" away when Satish picked him up

Only thing

 :D  do you still have my email? if so, please send me one.. :wink:
I have missed u!!  8)

.
Carnut,

Yes, there were some interesting discussions with Scubajap.  She really thought she could sell us a load of bunk!  This is allegedly her in the photo, the one of the right with the dark hair.  Can't tell much about her but she does appear to be Julia's buddy Angela.


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/blondBikini.jpg)

.

OzziesMom I can say honestly that
I am a day older and I guess that is all that matters.. However I do wish I was a lot wiser.

"Settling" is never easy..but life does go on.   Please keep that in mind
xOOOOOOOOOx

(http://plynx3.comfluent.net/images/nowitz/images/CD0744/HiRez/CD0744-0035.jpg)

OF, fwiw, I follow your thoughts.....just have to think about it a bit...'How is the girl, yep...why ask, if you dropped her off with your friend...will try to keep up with you.

No I don't have it :oops:

.
Hey, Ozzie's!

JerseyMom was by for the first time in ages today but I missed her!
Good to see both of you.

Anna

.

I think I found yours...did ya get it?  :)

.
I don't believe that Joran was "interrogated"  (read chatted with) very often at all and certainly never for the ten hours a day every day that he and Anita would like for us to believe.  If so there would be that much in video and it would take the Dutch investigators just that same amount of time to review the vids.

Blah is right, that is yet another buncha hooey they are trying to sell to us but there should still be those where Joran

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Ears.gif)

at least if that accounting of his behavior is true.

.

Hello Anna-looking good! haha

Yepper!

(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/Kat_Gram/alfieslow.gif)

Satish says Joran's eyes move around when he is nervous / or lying

OR, Joran's on a Beth Alert in Holland  ! !

.
You will have to show Ozzie this little doggie in the red dress.  He would probably just be jealous!  

As you can see, it is possible to just pick right back up as we are still having the same discussions, lol.  But there are statements on a thread caled something like Important Case Documents where all the "leaked" statements are posted.  That would be all that is new except for the Dutch supposedly sending some sort of crack team to investigate on their own.

CBB!

You have been so missed.  Our Late Night Crew just sort of fell apart but maybe we can get things going again once you feel up to speed on everything.

Good to see both of you!

.

I'm off to bed now monkeys, I am exhausted. I'll check in tomorrow!

kisses!!!! :)

Just in case ... Larry Garrison says someone has / is coming forward ? But they have to use due diligence in this...tomorrow, maybe someone can explain it better. We have no clue who it is...Lots of guesses.
But anything is good.

Well Monkeys

I'm calling it it night...
Wishing you all the best  

Do we still have a Theory  Forum?  Just wondering because I what to expand my thoughts from pg 20(?)
Which amounts to that the trio left a battered and abused Natalee alive,
Assuming that she would be found but not remember much if anything.

That is until Beth & company showed within 24 hrs and then Papa Sloot had to have sit down with Joran to get the nitty-gritty.
Then he took over
JMO of course

SeeYaaaByeeeeeeeeeeeee

Hiya, Anna! and thank you! I didn't mean to ignore you...I logged off and drove home from the office since I last posted. It's good to see you too.  :wink:

No theory forum but feel free to start a thread!!

Well, I see everyone left while I was busy. I always miss the fun.  :roll:

Hey, does anyone remember that clean up utility that we used to use to flush our computers?  I need a link if someone has it. TIA

http://www.stevengould.org/software/cleanup/  I just wanted to say good nite to everyone.. I'm super tired, sore all over..


td

http://www.stevengould.org/software/cleanup/

Lala'sMom that link was for you for Cleanup!

I like this one too:
crap cleaner  
use this to take out orphans and fix program errors

http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thhi.gif)

I'm still here, Lala's, reading for a bit before calling it a day.

.

Nope ..
Was that Ozzies old Avatra?
Could not find a graphic for it eithter but did find another one of  a computer nut   :lol: :wink:
(http://akamarti-ivil.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/compiman.gif)

SYB

Oh thanks so much Terry and Shell. My daughter is having issues with her computer.  She isn't much on maintenance. Go figure. I hope it helps her, says it is running really slow.


Hi Anna, how are you...love the pig.

I can't remember anything but the sleeping monkey for Ozzies but she did have a different one, didn't she?

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/ozzie4.gif)

TY for the crap cleaner. I had lots of CRAP... even tho I just got it back from surgery, there is more crap.

Well, just recapping for today before I head for the Monkey Bunkey. . .
I don't like what the president of the judges association had to say for he sounded as though not only were any judges involved to be understood in reaching their erroneous (IMHO) and totally illogical conclusions but that just about everything that could be done has been done by way of an investigation.

I believe Igsigs posted that this morning.  Has bugged me all day long that he is saying such a thing or at least that is how I am reading it.

The more of these statements I read, the more illogical the judge's conclusions seem.  In particular, the judge who ruled that there was no reason to search the van der Sloot property.

While I certainly appreciate that hard evidence is preferable to statements and circumstantial evidence by far, this is a case of total disappearance and there is no hard evidence.  So they just ignore any evidence that is not physically forensic even after ALE refused to take forensics from the three last seen with Natalee!  

That is about the worst example of judge's behavior that I can think of besides a few in this country who seem particularly fond of child molesters and their jobs are now in question, etc.

"How's she doing?"  Joran claiming not to have gone back for his shoes because Satish was rushing him, oh wait, no I walked home so who was rushing him them?  Why would he leave shoes if alone and walking home when he had all the time in the world??

Klaas is probably going to delete this but just my thoughts after the latest statement and article on the august body of judges:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/thinnocent.png)

You go Little Anna...OOPS!  I was talking about that sassy little dog in the red dress...too cute for words.  :D  I agree with you about those judges...they are missing a few brain cells if you ask me.

Terry & Shell,

Can we put these links in the technical thread in the Lounge?  Just a thought....thanks.

That's a good thought.
 :wink:

I guess this pc needs help, but it's late...sooo, I thought it might be good to put them where well rested monkeys could find them...and right now, that is not me... :wink:

Anna, Hat, Lala'sMom, LilPuma,

G'nite...

Hat, good to see you here...

Well, I hope lots of monkeys will put their stuff in there since I am sending my own child in there to find something that will work on her computer.  She has  Ewido, adaware and such, but her computer is running too slow and hers is much faster than mine.

Think I will call it a night, any smart monkeys that have any ideas, I am all ears to know.

Hugs to Nemo, night all.

If that were true, wouldn't they have gotten search warrants immediately instead of monitoring their cells and computers?   :wink:

Busted for lurking again!

Yes, I just cleaned 110MB and can tell improved speed even on this new hard drive.

I wonder if Joran thought ALE would behave as normal police and take the clothing they were all wearing that night pronto.  Perhaps he wanted to keep his shoes.  He told Chief Roy Tromp at the time they were new shoes.

We know he had several similar blue plaid shirts so that was not likely an issue.  Maybe he told the wrong size on the shoes so they would not take the ones he was wearing because they were a different size.

Now this would be abnormal behavior in a normal person but remember this is the kid who took advantage of Natalee's disappearance to try to enhance his reputation as a card player with his bogus tale of winning back money for her.

He forgot the girlfriends present would contradict his tale of card prowess but he knew for a fact Natalee wouldn't be around to point out his lie.  If he is thinking about his own rep with the cards at a time like that, he is likely to do or say just about anything.  Including invent a cover story to keep his fav shoes.

And on that I am getting my mind off these darned shoes for a while.  Making me Joran (new word for crazy)!

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/0339.gif)


And a big hello to Hat whom I believe I see reading along. . .

Night monkeys.  I'll check back in in a little bit to see if anyone left food out of the fridge or anything before I go to bed.  


 :(  :cry:

You are exactly right, LilPuma!  This is why we don't understand their system.  We don't understand it because it is totally illogical and contradicts itself just as you say.

.

Hat - good to see you!

Anna - the judge can only rule on what the prosecutor gives him.   :wink:

.
If forensics and "hard evidence" as Arlene used to call it are all that count before these judges, why on earth would ALE forego that in favor of some 1950's gimmick of monitoring phone calls??  Like these cell phone babies would not be on to that one!

You'd think they would go for the forensics in a NY second over any statements made on phones or otherwise if that is all that really counts in their judicial system.

And yet, they didn't do ANY for at least ten days.

 :shock:

Hello Klaas, sorry avatar not posting for me.

Good point on judges ability to rule on only what is submitted to them. Very difficult to pin the tail on these donkeys.

And she couldn't think of any reason why these boys would lie.   :(


It is so upsetting.  Just makes me want to

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/264kl7l_th-1.gif)

Hat - the avatar function isn't working right.  To post them now you need to have them in photobucket then post the url into the 3rd option in your profile for avatars.  

I do have this one of yours saved.  You can copy the url below and paste it into the 3rd option for avatars in your profile if you like.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/hatblimp.jpg

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/hatblimp.jpg)

is anyone else having trouble getting the Unsolved Crimes thread to open?

I just checked and it's opening fine for me?  Any particular thread?

.
Hat,
I hope you will write something truly beautiful for us on this some time soon for it is a tragic miscarriage of justice if ever there was one.

Good night, all . .

Heading for the monkey bunkey to read a bit before going to sleep to take my mind off this so I can sleep.  It still has the ability to keep me awake at times.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/4hn6wza_th.jpg)