Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #22

[Brandi]

Klaas, I don't know if I can post this, if not please just delete it

Let's take a vote:

Who thinks it was an accident or intentional?

I think it was an accident!

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover the incest angle.

Otherwise, it is leaning heavily to being murder.

Why not snag the immunity deal? There is something buried deeper.

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover some illegal activity that Casey was involved in.

[mrsrocko19]

Klaas, I don't know if I can post this, if not please just delete it

Let's take a vote:

Who thinks it was an accident or intentional?

I think it was an accident!

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover the incest angle.

Otherwise, it is leaning heavily to being murder.

Why not snag the immunity deal? There is something buried deeper.

My opinion is intentional

[jjayinthemorning]

I'm not 100% certain George is being truthful about seeing them on the 16th.   The gas can story is fishy all the way around.

Ahhh, so George and Casey could have been in an argument about the gross grandfather and George's incest actions on the 16th. Maybe Casey told George (like an only child would do) that she wanted her life back and because of him she was stuck with a child and damaged. Maybe she said she wished she would have had an abortion and never had Caylee. Maybe Casey threatened George that he would never see his daughter Caylee again. And as a result he lost both his daughters, his worst nightmare. (other than waking up next to Cindy everyday)
Interesting.
Anyway... is that 1st degree murder?

[Lala'sMom]

If you need any more proof of Casey's sick mind just listen to the 10 minute phone that begins between Casey and Cindy...that is all you need to hear to realize that Casey is never going to tell anyone where Caylee is and what happened.  She's past the point of no return.  Everyone should hear it if they haven't already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjD2RJW8gyw&feature=related

[AZLady]

AZlady, I don't doubt anything you post but how many personalities do you think she has?  I only see the lying, manipulative one.  I honestly don't see her in any other way since this all began.  It just seems to be her personality all the time.  I see Cindy as a constant nagging, violent biotch although I see her in pictures lovingly with Caylee.

Kippy, this is an excellent article about disassociative disorders, of which MPD is the most severe.
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2651.htm

Here's what I think is the significant part of the article to this case.
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2651.htm
Dissociative phenomena is divided into 2 categories: detachment and compartmentalization. These 2 factors have diverse natures and manifest as conversion disorder, hypnosis, dissociative amnesia, and dissociative identity disorder.

Dissociative identity disorder is characterized by the existence of 2 or more personalities within the individual. Clinically, only one of the personalities is present at any given moment, and one of them is dominant most of the time.
The various personalities are almost always quite discrepant and often seem to be opposite. The original personality usually has no knowledge of the other personality. When a given personality is dominant and interacting with the environment, the other personalities may not perceive all that is happening.
Each personality is well integrated and is a complex aggregate of unique memories, behavior patterns, and social relationships that control each individual's function during its dominant intervals.
Transition from one personality to another is sudden, often dramatic, and usually precipitated by stress.
Patients with dissociative disorder have associated borderline personality disorder, somatization disorder, major depression, PTSD, and history of suicide attempt more often than other psychiatric patients. Childhood sexual abuse, physical neglect, and emotional abuse are strongly associated with dissociative disorders.
Other, more subtle, signs of dissociation may be present, such as episodes of amnesia or blackout in the absence of substance abuse, the patient referring to himself or herself as we, the patient being told by others of behavior he or she does not recall, or the patient being greeted by people he or she does not know. A patient may miss objects that cannot be accounted for or find objects or samples of strange handwriting.
Fugue states, sleepwalking, and automatic writing may represent dissociation.
A child who is experiencing dissociative symptoms may appear withdrawn, frightened, or uninvolved.
Frequently, the child is identified as being "different" from other children, although referring clinicians, caseworkers, foster parents, and teachers are often at a loss to characterize the differences.
Children with dissociative disorders exhibit a plethora of fluctuating abilities, moods, fears, and anxieties; shifting preferences; inconsistent knowledge; and other evidence of erratic access to information and skills.
Auditory hallucinations are present in most children and adolescents with dissociative disorder; however, "phobic" hallucinations in severely stressed children and young adolescents do not necessarily indicate an enduring psychotic disorder and may be transient phenomena.
Initial or short-term effects of abuse include early reactions occurring within the first 2 years of termination of abuse.

Emotional reactions and self-perceptions

In 1981, Anderson et al reviewed clinical charts of 155 female adolescent sexual assault victims and reported psychosocial complications in 63% of them.8
Tuft's researchers found differences in the amount of pathology reported for different age groups.9 The highest incidence of psychopathology was found in children aged 7-13 years. Of the group aged 4-6 years, 17% met the criteria for clinically significant pathology. The following reactions are found to be common among patients who have been abused: breaking down emotional impact into specific reactions, anger and hostility, and guilt and shame.

Effects of sexual abuse on sexuality: Reactions of inappropriate sexual behavior in patients who have been sexually abused are well documented. Patients with dissociative disorder are more likely to have experienced childhood physical abuse and childhood sexual abuse than patients with other psychiatric conditions.
Effects on social functioning: People who have experienced sexual abuse are also found to have problems in social functioning, including the following:

School difficulties
Truancy
Running away from home
Delinquency
Long-term effects are noted in the same areas.

Emotional reactions and self-perceptions: Depression, anxiety, and tension are the most commonly reported long-term problems among adults who were molested as children.
Impact on interpersonal relations

Difficulty in parenting and responding to their own children
Difficulty trusting others
Fear, often undifferentiated
Hostility
Sense of betrayal
Effects on sexuality

Problems with sexual adjustment
Promiscuity (increased level of sexual behavior)
Effects on social functioning

Prostitution
Substance abuse

[mrsrocko19]

What would draw aligators to a body? Would it be blood and that is maybe why she had the kitchen knife?

[Puzzler]

With regard to dissociative disorder, was the psychiatrist more specific as to which one of the several that are known and described in the medical literature?  Dissociative disorders to my understanding do not fall under psychoses. 

The way I understand dissociative disorder is that it's like having the loss of a pet or favorite celebrity rather than a relative or loved one. DD results from posttraumatic stress and could be a result of... incest.

Multiple personality is a dissociative disorder.

Yes, you're right.  I see that multiple personality is a more severe form of a dissociative disorder.  Somehow I got that confused.  My apologies to all.  I had researched this a few weeks back and posted it on SM.  I don't have that research now and if I find it, I will re-post.  There was one form of disassociation that seemed to more specifically fit a lot of the symptoms we are seeing in Casey.  Listening to NG was the reason I did the research, because at first, I was questioning if Casey had MPD (my armchair observation), but on NG they said that it was NOT MPD.  I'll see if I can find it.....

Okay, here's the post I was referring to above:

 Re: Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #2
« Reply #1847 on: August 08, 2008, 03:18:11 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this sound like anyone we've been discussing: 

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=560&cn=8


Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms
Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[mytime]

Klaas, I don't know if I can post this, if not please just delete it

Let's take a vote:

Who thinks it was an accident or intentional?

I think it was an accident!

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover the incest angle.

Otherwise, it is leaning heavily to being murder.

Why not snag the immunity deal? There is something buried deeper.

I just don't want to believe incest was involved and I don't want to accuse anyone of such a henious crime without any evidence.  JMO - I don't think LP is a reliable source.

[always 1]

I have to think accidental by neglect at this point - I know that's not popular but she raised her to almost 3 and Caylee looked happy, not withdrawn.

[jjayinthemorning]

What would draw aligators to a body? Would it be blood and that is maybe why she had the kitchen knife?

Gators aren't like sharks. But she would need a knife to cut open a heavily wrapped corpse.

[Anninflorida]

First, let me say that I agree with most opinions on this board but I'm having a really serious problem with the protestors in front of the Anthony house. I have protested various things during my life, but every protest was done to make a cahnge, hopefully for the better. In college, I once chained myself to a beautiful oak tree that was over 100 years old, in an attempt to keep bulldozers from destroying it and a parking lot taking its place on campus.  I live in the area and see every minute of this case on four local channels, thanks to DVR.  It's becoming so discusting to watch these so called "protestors" do their thing!!! What can they hope to accomplish, other than getting their face on the news for a couple of seconds?  If these people want to bring about some type of change in this case, maybe they should protest in front of the OCSD and "ask" for Casey to be arrested and put back in jail. I wonder how all of these protestors would feel if they lived in that neighborhood?  Granted, we all want to see justice done in this case but I believe we need to trust LE to do their job. I'm sure that all of this seems like a blur to this family. None of us would like to think our children are capable of killing anyone....much less their flesh and blood. It does take time for reality and grief to set in. For those of you that have suffered a loss, think back.  None of it seems real while all of the family and friends are around and the planning for a funeral is taking place. But...when things get quiet and you realize your loss is real, things become very different. I think this reality will happen for these grandparents if they are given some space.  I just couldn't believe that Cindy was criticized yesterday for weeding her lawn.  Yes, people are saying they should be searching for Caylee but where should they begin?  Maybe they really know in their hearts that this beautiful child is gone from their life but just aren't ready to accept.  If I were in this situation, I would be fighting these ugly protestors away from my home.

So...I suppose I'm very unpopular here after this post but I just had to voice my opinion.

[always 1]

You know, I tried to reach out to Joran to turn himself in and tell us where Natalee was because I thought his life could be salvaged, but I can't even reach out to Casey, I don't know where she is.

[carpe noctem]

I have to think accidental by neglect at this point - I know that's not popular but she raised her to almost 3 and Caylee looked happy, not withdrawn.

It looks to me that Cindy raised Caylee, and Casey went about her partying ways. imo

In other words, popped Caylee out and went about her day.

[mytime]

With regard to dissociative disorder, was the psychiatrist more specific as to which one of the several that are known and described in the medical literature?  Dissociative disorders to my understanding do not fall under psychoses. 

The way I understand dissociative disorder is that it's like having the loss of a pet or favorite celebrity rather than a relative or loved one. DD results from posttraumatic stress and could be a result of... incest.

Multiple personality is a dissociative disorder.

Yes, you're right.  I see that multiple personality is a more severe form of a dissociative disorder.  Somehow I got that confused.  My apologies to all.  I had researched this a few weeks back and posted it on SM.  I don't have that research now and if I find it, I will re-post.  There was one form of disassociation that seemed to more specifically fit a lot of the symptoms we are seeing in Casey.  Listening to NG was the reason I did the research, because at first, I was questioning if Casey had MPD (my armchair observation), but on NG they said that it was NOT MPD.  I'll see if I can find it.....

Okay, here's the post I was referring to above:

 Re: Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #2
« Reply #1847 on: August 08, 2008, 03:18:11 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this sound like anyone we've been discussing: 

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=560&cn=8


Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms
Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

There is no doubt Casey is narcissistic.  I think Lee is too!

[Lala'sMom]

In that phone call Casey tells her friend that she has told the police everything and they are not listening to her...well we all know what she told them.   Cold...calculating...detached...frightening.

[carpe noctem]

Klaas, I don't know if I can post this, if not please just delete it

Let's take a vote:

Who thinks it was an accident or intentional?

I think it was an accident!

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover the incest angle.

Otherwise, it is leaning heavily to being murder.

Why not snag the immunity deal? There is something buried deeper.

I just don't want to believe incest was involved and I don't want to accuse anyone of such a henious crime without any evidence.  JMO - I don't think LP is a reliable source.

I was on to the incest thing long before the guy with the cowboy hat.

There are a lot of signs displayed that it could be what we are dealing with here.

[klaasend]

I'm not 100% certain George is being truthful about seeing them on the 16th.   The gas can story is fishy all the way around.

Ahhh, so George and Casey could have been in an argument about the gross grandfather and George's incest actions on the 16th. Maybe Casey told George (like an only child would do) that she wanted her life back and because of him she was stuck with a child and damaged. Maybe she said she wished she would have had an abortion and never had Caylee. Maybe Casey threatened George that he would never see his daughter Caylee again. And as a result he lost both his daughters, his worst nightmare. (other than waking up next to Cindy everyday)
Interesting.
Anyway... is that 1st degree murder?

We know Caylee and Cindy visited great grandpa on fathers day June 15
We know that Casey got into a fight with Cindy and George the night of June 15
We know Casey spent the night at Tony's house WITHOUT Caylee June 15

Did George really see Casey and Caylee leaving the house at around 12:50pm on June 16?

What happened the afternoon of June 16, 2008?

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w214/iliketoN0KTEM/16g7656.png

[Blonde]

What is the Breaking News Caylee Marie no Dissusion thread about
has something happened

No, nothing has happened.  We (or the other moderators) are going to try to have a thread with daily news in the case only...no discussion.  I've yet to see this work so it will be interresting to see how it goes.

Klaasend or The Mods are going to try while were on if something brakes to post it on that thread so you don't have to look for it.

[kippy]

AZlady, I don't doubt anything you post but how many personalities do you think she has?  I only see the lying, manipulative one.  I honestly don't see her in any other way since this all began.  It just seems to be her personality all the time.  I see Cindy as a constant nagging, violent biotch although I see her in pictures lovingly with Caylee.

Kippy, this is an excellent article about disassociative disorders, of which MPD is the most severe.
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2651.htm

Thank you AZ, interesting read and staggering statistics, more than I ever realized.

[AZLady]

Klaas, I don't know if I can post this, if not please just delete it

Let's take a vote:

Who thinks it was an accident or intentional?

I think it was an accident!

The only way I can see it as an accident, is that she disposed of the body
so nobody would discover the incest angle.

Otherwise, it is leaning heavily to being murder.

Why not snag the immunity deal? There is something buried deeper.

I just don't want to believe incest was involved and I don't want to accuse anyone of such a henious crime without any evidence.  JMO - I don't think LP is a reliable source.

I was on to the incest thing long before the guy with the cowboy hat.

There are a lot of signs displayed that it could be what we are dealing with here.

Carpe, yes.  I recognized the signs of incest and severe abuse early in this case.