Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Let's pray this thread brings Kyron home.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Thanks for the smooth ride Muffy!  ::MonkeyKiss::

Exactly what I was silently wishing.

Sassi (I secretly call you Sassipants in my head because that's my nickname for my pomeranian who has the fluffiest bottom you ever saw  ::piggy::), thank you for your warmth and kind words.

**not that I think you have a fluffy bottom   ::MonkeyHaHa::

You know what picture of Kyron is my favorite?  The Easter photo with his truck basket on his head... he's just living in the moment being a little boy and expressing his silliness. 

 ::MonkeyAngel::

 

Love this ::MonkeyAngel::

The weather has gotten so much nicer.  I'm surprised there have been no searches going on for Kyron.
Is it that MCSO has run out of funds for the year (their year-end is June 30) or have they run out of places to search.  The past few places on Dixie Mountain were suggested by FBI profilers back in November.  I remember LE had to wait for the weather to get so warm before they could make those searches.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: Hubby has called me sassi for the past 11 years, but he's never called me sassipants. Probably because I don't have a furry bottom.  ::MonkeyWink::

I like the easter photo too. You can tell he has a sense of humor.

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24370_1437468177752_1264414625_1246756_723289_n.jpg)

When I first saw this photo of him with the Easter basket truck on his head a year ago, I knew I was in love with this beautiful little boy.  Wicked sense of humor!   He and my son would make great friends.

I'm feeling a bit discouraged today. I think I have made a big mistake by reading the post' on BOC. Don't get me wrong, they are pretty good sleuthers over their, but they're distracting to me. There's something I'm missing and I can't put my finger on it.

Just to clear my head, I'm going to take a few days off and do something fun for myself for a change. Then I'm going to go through all of my notes, and source material, and refresh myself to a get better insight. I'm doing this for Kyron.

Hopefully, I'll get out of this fog and move forward, because right now, today, I have nothing to offer.

See you Monkeys in a few days.  ::MonkeyBike::

Take all the time you need Sassi!  Hurry back to us and maybe just maybe you'll have some good news for us!  It's very sad that our kids on here are still out there with no end in sight and it's heavy on the heart.  We all understand when a Monkey needs any time away.

For anyone who hasn't seen this:

"Kaine describes what Terri told him about Kyron's disappearance"

http://www.katu.com/news/local/122554994.html

TU Monchichi for article/video.

I noticed a few things; new to me.  No scheduled doctors appt for that Friday and TH on 2 Fred Meyer stores video surveillance.  Also a hint at an underlying disagreement about Kyron needing to see a doctor for something? 

I hope Little man Kyron is found everyday and will continue to do so until he is.

 ::HelloKitty::

I wonder how that works with Terri and doctor's appts and Kyron.  I wonder if she had some kind of permission to make appts for him and get the info?

Hello HelloKitty!  I'm 100% sure that since TH was the primary stay at home parent that all appts. and reg daytime activities regarding Ky and his sister were left to TH.  Kaine and Desiree would only come on special occ., emergencies and days off.  That is just typical parent duties stepparent or not.  Since TH had been tending to Ky from almost birth and DY living so far away it would only be natural for her to assume these responsibilities.  DY doesn't seem like the grudge holding type to say "you can not take Kyron to any of his appts., you must call me or have Kaine do it"!  If my hubby was the main bread winner and I'm the stay at home parent those duties would be my pleasure!  As I'm sure most of the Monkeys have this role.  Somehow I feel like I'm coming off snotty and I really don't mean to, please forgive me HK.  This is all MOO in attempt to say what I think the situation was in the Horman home.

 ::HelloKitty::

I am just referring to the legality of it.  I am wondering if she had carte blanche to do as she wished with appointments.  Since she is not the legal mother, I would think some kind of paperwork would be required by the doctor's office.

Did she have the legal right to do that?  Bring him to the doctor under her orders or would she need the permission of the father or the mother?

Yes ma'am she would be able to take him to the doc w/o any questions asked unless KH or DY took him to his very first appt and established some sort of protocol with the doc ofc first.  If she took him in and has the same last name they would never question it.  Knowing TH like I think I do she patted herself on the back for being a stepparent and taking Kyron to the doc.  Remember, she was the only one crediting herself for finding that he needed glasses early on.  I will have to give her a cookie for that, it's extrememly vital to a childs learning to be able to see clearly and hear correctly.  My Mom took my Son to the doc often while I worked (super preemie)after my first year and I had to fill out paperwork to allow her but that was only because it was known I was the Mother.  I did work in a doctor's ofc for 1 1/2 yrs a few years back and unless there were custody issues that we had to know about or a bio Mom or Dad raised an issue we never knew if the person bringing in the child was a step or not. 

The alleged spaciness/possible seizure activity seems serious enough that it would have been topic of discussion for all parents, including D and TY. We know from reports that according to DY, TH contacted her often via email. We also know that there were purchases of bat phones early on. Did TH ever contact DY via telephone (Be it home phone, bat phone, pay phone etc...) or were their conversations limited strictly to emails?
If your Child, be it stepChild or not, had episodes of possible seizures wouldn't you want to speak to the other Parent(s) directly about this?
If so, That topic of discussion would most likely include possible causes I would think.

It seems that KH never felt the need to do drive detail when it came to soothing BabyK. It isn't a requirement, but it's certainly not unheard of. (I've done it several times and not just for earaches LOL! It worked wonders for colic and general crankiness too.)
Who's idea was it to limit Kyron to his bedroom in the am until he was given permission? Why?

TH had sent her older Son to live elsewhere and it seemed important enough for KH to confirm with the media early on that he had a good relationship with him. IIRC We heard this from KH himself. Why was it necessary for him to do that?

Why is it necessary for DY to borderline harrass TH when thusfar TH has not been named as a suspect in the case?

afaik there haven't been any updates on the search for D.A.D.
I do wonder why he was so paranoid about LE. So much so that he shot an officer.

Yes, I am chock full of questions this morning, including, but not limited to, if she had the support of TH also (proof via emails?), why didn't DY take KH back into family court to seek modification of custody, or did she? Why? Why not?

PS Good Morning Sunshines :)
 

I am also curious as to the lack of acknowledgement of alleged seizure activity and/or questioning of why the sudden onset?

 ::HelloKitty::

The seizure info came from Terri. Made it up?

The doctor records would list the birth info of Kyron and I would hope that the office would notice that Terri is not the mother.

Where I live, doctor's offices are very concerned about privacy issues and only granting the right to the proper person for medical treatment.  They would be in a world of lawsuit if they let just anyone bring a patient in to see a doctor.

 ::HelloKitty::

Why is DY "borderline harassing" TH?

Because DY believes that TH knows or did something to her child.  What would you do in that case?  Sit by on your hands or would you be screaming from the rooftops?  She is the mother of a missing child.  How horrifying is that?

Maybe, then again, maybe not?

As far as the issue regarding the alleged Dr. Appt.
Apparently TH did not take Kyron to the Dr. Appt for the alleged seizure activity. KH appears to have no knowledge of said alleged Dr. Appt. It is curious isn't it?
What are his thoughts regarding alleged seizure activity?
Was he concerned?
If TH had no right to take Kyron to be seen by a Dr. regarding the alleged possible seizure activity it seems that this would be a huge point of contention, enough to contact the other Parent to seek advise in the matter no?

That seems to be a reasonable explanation. Then again, if true that TH is involved, wouldn't it be in the best interest of a living Kyron, that DY not anger the potential suspect?

 ::HelloKitty::

I may be remembering incorrectly, but the only thing I know of seizure activity is an email that Terri sent to someone.  Not DY.

We don't know that KH or DY was ever told about this "seizure" activity. 

We have no idea if seizure activity existed.

If in fact he did have seizures, that is even more damning to TH who left him alone in a crowded out of control situation (her appraisal of it anyway)

 ::HelloKitty::

For a year, they have tried all kinds of techniques with TH.  Nothing is working.

Why DY does what she does, I do not know.  She has more patience and grace than I would ever have under the circumstances. 

Knowing that KH works at Intel it would not suprise me to find that TH may have bypassed using the computer for some of her private conversations.

It's been reported that there was paperwork that was given to Kyron's teacher, Mrs./Ms? Porter that needed to be filled out by the school/her?  prior to the appointment.
Has LE acknowledged the existance of said "paperwork"?

Oh, Hello there is this too:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108250924.html

"On Monday Kaine told reporters that 23-month-old Kiara does ask about Kyron, and recalled that Kyron would come sit on the bed next to her to read when he came home from school. Kaine also said Kiara does not ask about her mom, who called the toddler by the pet name Kitty. Earlier this month Terry withdrew her request to share parenting time with the child."

It seems particularly odd that a 23 month old (I forgot that her nickname is Kitty too lol!)would ask about her Brother but not ask about her Mom doesn't it?
A 23 month old? Sad.

My husband has taken my children to doctor appointments and he is the step father. He lives with the kids full time and is on the paperwork as a guardian. Terri was a full time parental figure in Kyrons life doesn't seem odd to me she would take him to the doctors.

Patricia I would think Kitty not asking for her mom would be due to Kaine not talking about her and if you think about it, what would he tell her anyway. I actually doubt she remembers Kyron and pretty much only knows him through stories and pics Kaine maybe showing her.. 

 ::HelloKitty::

I don't know how to be more clear in my question, but I will try again.

Terri is not a legal guardian.  Terri is nobody to Kyron.  If she was to make any medical decisions, there would have to be LEGAL paperwork. 

I am wondering what authority, if any, Terri had to make appointments about Kyron's medical needs. 

Did she have the right to talk to the doctor and make the decisions as to what would be needed for his issues?

Did she have the right to talk with the teacher about Kyron's needs and issues?  Those have to be granted by the parents.  No one can be talking about your child to someone who is not authorized to hear about it.  Thank goodness for that.

My husband never adopted my daughter but he's been her Daddy for 21 years.  Growing up he took her to the doctor, the dentist, in for surgeries, picking up medications, scheduling appointments, and everything in between.

I'm pretty sure step parents are by law allowed to do that unless there is a provision in place preventing it. 

Well I can only answer your question with what my experience is. My husband, my children's step father can take my children to the doctors. He can pick up meds for them, he can ask for the doctor to check whatever because he is listed as a guardian to my children based on the fact he is one of the full time parents. I would guess, given it would be in the best interest of Kyron because his dad worked full time and his mother lived 5 hours away, Terri was able to take Kyron to the doctor. Terri was somebody to Kyron, she was one of the full time caregivers for Kyron. Given that, it seems reasonable she would have a legal right, awarded to her by Kaine, to seek medical attention or what have you, for Kyron.

 ::HelloKitty::

But is she a guardian?  Can she make decisions on her own that Kyron may have needed treatment for seizures without consulting with the mother and the father and getting their permission?

It sounds ludicrous to me that she would be able to make decisions without Kaine and or Desiree's permission. 

I have no step 's involved in my family at any point, so I know nothing of this subject.  I just know if I had a child that was in the position of Kyron, I would be furious if the step mother made medical decisions without my input as a mother.

I made it here, finally!  Thank you Melissab over at BOC for guiding me over.   ::MonkeyAngel::

I was clueless!!!

 ::snipping2::
melissab says:
May 26, 2011 at 9:40 am
EssayKaye you silly little thing you! Lol! If you used MonaMonkey you were approved Aug. 2010 but never knew it! Log in at SM using that name and the password you registered and go! If you have trouble you can email Klaas directly at her hotmail addy. See you there!

For those requesting admission at SM, just log in once in a while under your requested name and password to see if you have been approved. To my knowledge there is no notification system to let you know your up!
****

I am assuming melissab at BOC is the same person as melisb here?  But then I thought Puzzler and Puzzled were the same, too, and I was wrong.  Any ways, thank you!!!

I have been following Kyron's case since last June here and on BOC; it is so very sad that he has not been found yet. 

The thing that has always stood out for me is that TH has essentially relinquished custody of her little girl in order to avoid opening the door to discovery and potentially having to testify under oath.  Of course, this strategy does not in itself indicate that she is guilty of causing Kyron's disappearance, but it does reveal she is "hiding" from something.  There is NO WAY I would not fight like a hell cat for custody of my daughter if I knew I was innocent!!!  If it is not involvement in KY's disappearance, what is it??? 
::MonkeyConfused::

My thoughts on the video and the underlying disagreement was a disagreement between Kaine and Terri.  Kaine seemed to have a wait and see attitude and Terri seemed to want to get him into see the doc right away.  Also the fact that Kaine alluded to the fact that NO DOCTORS APPT had been set tho there was the confusion with the teacher. 

If I were Terri and the primary caregiver of the child/ step or not I would defer/consult with the bio parent just as she did, jmo.  Pending urgency - maybe Kaine did not note any zoning out episodes or as he said thought that Kyron was tired due to the current situation with Kitty's ear ache and disrupted sleep pattern from sleeping across from crying baby for a couple nites? 

As to TH I tend to have differing opinions on her than most.  I think she is more clever and cunning than we know or can imagine.   I also am not set on any accomplices at that school....other than Kyron himself but that's today's thought. 

WELCOME MONAMONKEY!

In a doctor's office if a person who appears to be a childs mom or even step and they are bringing in the child and filling out all the paperwork, SSN, Insurance, etc., then they are condidered to be the proper legal guardian.  ONLY if there are custodial issues and rules set forth by the bio parent that the step parent can not be present for any doctor or legal or school appts. or questions will the step ever be kept from tending to the child just as a regular parent would.  She is married to Kyron's father and at one time or another since he held a full time job all appts and teacher conf were prolly left to her and all I assume knew about DY too.  HK, when you take your child to the doc, first time in an office, does the CSR know you are the bio parent or a step?  You wouldn't unless there were custody issues.  There is no law in a doctors office that says a step parent can't bring the child that lives with them to an appt. unless there are issues!  Even our school forms that we fill out every year for my son's personal info asks the question about custody problems.  But nowhere does a form ever ask if you are the bio or step parent.  It is a given everywhere that if you have the child with you and all persoal info then you may have the right to have them there.  I say yes a hundred times over she has legal right to do all for him.

 ::HelloKitty::

Very very different where I live.  The schools and medical are very careful on who can get information.

A grandparent can get no information on a child unless a parent has given permission, for instance. The forms are filled out as to who the legal people are.  If it's a step, papers have to be signed that show the person has permission to get info, be called for an emergency, pick the child up, etc. 

When I go to the doctor here, I have to show my ID card because of ID theft, but that is different than the Terri issue.

I sincerely doubt that my doctor would allow a step parent to make medical decisions for a child.  My doctor's office doesn't tell anyone anything,

 ::HelloKitty::

When there are gay couples, it does not matter if the one person has said that the partner has rights.  They have no rights.

Terri has no rights because Kyron has a mother and a father. 

Perhaps Desiree and Kaine gave rights to Terri via written documentation. I don't know. 

I am just wondering how she could make medical decisions because where I live, she would not be able to do that.

HK, I am not sure exactly what has you upset to be honest with you. I suppose in looking back Kaine can understand he made a mistake by allowing Terri to have guardian privliges over Kyron but to be honest given Terri was a full time parent/caregiver to Kyron, hate it or not that is was the case, she needed to have the ability to have access to school situations and medical needs. If she was a good step mom it would not be a problem, unfortunately she may have used this to hurt Kyron. Personally I think the subject is off track a bit.

 

I mostly lurk in these threads these days because I find this incredibly depressing.  :(

It seems to me TH started pointing out the spaciness and the possibility that he was having seizures as a set up.  You know, like maybe he wandered away from school and got lost. ?? That way, if he was found dead, it could be blamed on these alleged issues. just seems too convenient that she thought he was having issues prior to his disappearance and that there seemed to be no follow-up to these concerns.  I often wonder if they're going to find him very close to the school in the underbrush.  (though I pray every day that he is found alive) 

Also, TH was a primary care giver since he was a baby, wasn't she? It seems plausible that she had the authority to make regular medical decisions on a daily basis.  I come from a blended family, and my dad had the authority to make medical decisions for my oldest brother and sister (their bio-dad was completely out if the picture).

Amen MCGirl!  I've never, ever seen any paperwork that would question if a child belonged to that parent if the name was the same.  I think HK is just upset that TH may have used med and school info against Ky because the other parents trusted her to be telling the truth.  HK can speak for herself but I do understand where she is coming from.  I just wanted her to know that unless Kyron threw a fit and sad she's not my Mommy or there were issues in the custody agreement there isn't really anyway to know who is bringing a child in.  It is done in good faith and let's face it, usually real bad people who intend on doing harm to a child don't really keep up with their medical or school.  Now, back to finding Kyron.  Isn't the update from LE soon?  I'm sure that will be put off just like everything else is or has been.

 ::HelloKitty::

Why I am bringing the medical issue up is that we have been given no information that Terri had the authority to bring Kyron to the doctor for issues that she may have thought up because of her own nefarious purposes. People are assuming that Kyron had these issues, and nowhere except in Terri's emails is it stated that Kyron had any issues like that.

Skyline had no policies to call if a child was not in school.  They assumed things.  I can guarantee you that the schools where I live do not assume anything.  Maybe they had a lawsuit at one time or the threat of one for allowing a child to go with a step parent.  I don't know.  But they assume nothing and it is all written down who has rights to do what.

When I go to the doctor, I have to fill out a form that identifies who I am and who is responsible for my care. 

I imagine when a doctor's office that assumed some things gets sued, they will change their policies as well.

I don't believe Kaine has ever come out and said Terri had no right to take Kyron to the doctor or be involved in any medical concerns. If he did then he should have made it clear to the school and to the doctors that Terri had not been granted permission to discuss or seek medical attention. I think it is reasonable to think Terri had this right and in my opinion, given his father worked full time and Desiree lived hours away, it would only make sense she would be able to take him to the doctors. Remember that is what she was supposedly going to do, take him to the doctors to discuss possible seizures. I really don't see anything wrong with it but perhaps because I am a step mom and my husband is a step dad, I understand that it is needed. Like I said, if Terri was being praised as a good step mom then it would not be viewed as a problem. This is one of those situations that Kaine can now see it was a mistake. I don't even think the doctors office is liable for anything because all she was doing was taking him to the doctors and step parents everyday take kids to the doctors. I think we are beating a dead horse with this.

I cannot believe it has been almost a year since we read about this little frog man. He needs to come home....

HK I have to admit you are aiming your anger at step parents in general it seems and that is a bit unfair. I am finding myself on the defensive with such comments as "Maybe they had a lawsuit at one time or the threat of one for allowing a child to go with a step parent. ".

Believe it or not, many times a step parent loves and cares for a child more then a bio parent as is the case in my home and many homes across the country. If you wish to point your anger at Terri then fine I am with you, but please try not to insult step parents or insinuate all step parents should not have a right to care for a child. Very unfair.

Welcome to Scared Monkeys MonaMonkey!   ::MonkeyDance::

 ::HelloKitty::

I obviously don't know how to say it without people taking it personally.

I am not saying that Terri could not take Kyron to the doctor.  What I am saying is that Terri should not have been able to bring Kyron to the doctor for something that she "diagnosed" without having the parents in agreement.

Kaine and Desiree both expressed surprise that Kyron was going to the doctor.  They both expressed not knowing that he had these seizure issues.

When the search was going on for Kyron, at no time did the authorities indicate that Kyron was a child with possible medical conditions so be aware!

People are assuming that Kyron had seizures or other issues, and there is no official report of that.  As there is no confirmation of that by Desiree or Kaine, who as his parents, should have been informed.

A step parent, whether one likes it or not, does not have the same legal rights as a biological parent. I did not decide this.  It is a legal issue.  When a biological child turns 18, a parent has no right to their child's medical information.  That's the way it is with legal issues.  Nothing based on emotion, just the law.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/Kyron-Home1.gif)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

KH stated that he attributed Kyron's  "spaciness" to sleep deprivation.
 I take that as confirmation of a known issue that was both acknowledged and discussed.

 ::HelloKitty::

Discussed and then what? 

Is there evidence that there was a decision to bring him to the doctor ?

When i signed my children up for medical insurance, I put my husband as their guardian, perhaps that is what Kaine did. A full time step parent, and even a part time step parents needs to be able to seek medical attention for the children. To me it is a matter of safety just as when you sign your child for school, you sign a form allowing the school to seek medical attention or when you sign a note for a babysitter/nanny to seek medical attention. I understand what you are saying I think, Terri as a step parent should not have over stepped her role as step parent and gone against the opinion of the bio parents. However, for the sake of argument, if Kyron was having seizures and Kaine was in denial about it, which does happen, Terri would have been doing to the right thing in my opinion in taking Kyron to the doctors. Just because Terri abused her role doesn't make the actions of a step parent seeking medical attention wrong. In a way I see this as the responsibility of the bio parent to make sure a person with bad intentions does not have the authority to seek medical attention, although I don't see how Kaine could have figured out a possible plan. 

Allegedly, yes.
I have found no information that disputes the teacher,  Ms. Porter receiving a questionnaire in regards to Kyron that was to be filled out prior to his Dr. Appt.

I get the impression that Kaine was unaware of the "seizure" issue, period.  It seems as if TH never even told Kaine she thought Kyron even needed to go to the doctor's.  If it was enough of an issue for her to go behind Kaine's back to make an appointment (which I don't even believe existed), then WHY would she leave Kyron outside of his classroom on a busy day, with the school full of people?  If she was that concerned, why wouldn't she make the effort to walk him to his door, and make sure he checked in with his teacher?

 ::HelloKitty::

I agree that a step parent should be on legal documents.

I don't think Desiree was aware of any seizure issues. I don't think Desiree was aware of any issues that required Kyron to go to the doctor. 

Let's say that your children are staying with your sister,  Your children's favorite aunt.

She calls you up and says that she has brought your child to the doctor because she thinks your child has seizures.  What would your reaction be?

I am so wondering why the bio parents (apparently neither one) was involved in this medical process.

Terri was in contact with Desiree a lot, it sounds like.  Yet she was never contacted about issues that were so huge that a teacher and doctor are involved?  I don't get that at all.

I'm posting this in response to justice4kyron on BOC. They are associating familiar names that we have all heard. This is only one of the post'.

I want to be clear that what I found in one day, associates all of the names, but in no way means that this is what I believe, or that I'm correct on the info. I'm just throwing this out there as "another coincidence". So here we go.....

Posted on BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-126/#comments
 (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-126/#comments)

justice4kyron says:
May 25, 2011 at 10:07 pm

@ E-rose,

Also goes by the alias Araceli M Estrada
_____________________________________

I started looking at the names that justice4kyron was posting and this is what I found:

In January of 2011 Rodolfo Sanchez created a FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002292514643&sk=friends#!/profile.php?id=100002292514643&sk=wall (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002292514643&sk=friends#!/profile.php?id=100002292514643&sk=wall)

This is his pic and a pic that Blink posted. NOTE: Look at the little girl with the bangs and compare it to the SF pic of the man "who can't be seen with the little girl".

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/RodolfoSanchez2.jpg?t=1306536122)(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/RudySanchez3.jpg?t=1306537146)


(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/30862_1489639882012_1264414625_1365625_1211108_n.jpg)

His wifes name is Araceli Sanchez. NOTE: He like red heads.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002050279804&sk=friends&v=friends#!/profile.php?id=100002050279804&sk=friends (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002050279804&sk=friends&v=friends#!/profile.php?id=100002050279804&sk=friends)

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/AraceliSanchez.jpg?t=1306536408)

Rodolfo Sanchez' first addition to his friends list was Ubaldo Sanchez:

http://www.facebook.com/usanchez2?sk=friends#!/usanchez2?sk=friends&v=friends (http://www.facebook.com/usanchez2?sk=friends#!/usanchez2?sk=friends&v=friends)

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/UbaldoSanchez.jpg?t=1306536288)

I have more info but I wanted to post this first. Rodolfo's FB states that he lives, currently, in Chicago, Il.

My thought is, I absolutely do not underestimate anything these people do or what they are capable of. When you look at their FB pages, you will see associated names of people that have been mentioned quite often, including Maria Sanchez and the Flores.

I could be totally wrong with this post and I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I'm just putting out what I found.

paint me a confused monkey. Are the 3 men supposed to be the same person?

HK, I am not sure that we know Desiree was not aware of Terri wanting to take Kyron to the doctors. The only thing I recall her saying about it was just saying there was some talk about it.
I have been thinking about this. If my children's step mother who was caring for my child full time wanted to take my child to the doctors due to possible seizure activities, I would not mind. However, I would have liked to be consulted prior to any tests or medications given. But just taking him to the docs, no that wouldn't bother me.

Ugh TG. NO they are not the same men. If you have been following this case on SM and BOC you would know that Rodolfo, aka Rudy Sanchez is associated with Ubaldo, Maria, and Araceli, ALL Sanchez'.

Why even post any more.

 ::HelloKitty::
It seems  like Ubaldo might be from Colorado.  Or at least he has a lot of Colorado connections.

That's correct. They are all over the map.

I totally understand the Caylee case going on, but Kyron is still missing. There are very few Monkeys that are continuing to follow this case, but I'm not going to be one of them. EVERY missing/murdered child and person is important, but I can't give my full attention to more than one at a time. My old brain just can't work that way if I'm gong to be effective.

I'm just going to hang out here and give what I can give along with praying every day and night that Desiree will have closure, and Kyron will come home.

 ::HelloKitty::

It's good that you are on the case Sassi.  It is sad that Kyron seems to be forgotten.

I don't think Kyron is forgotten.  I believe there are a lot of people that still check in for news.  Unfortunately, barring a big break, there is little we haven't discussed.

Thank you to all of the super sleuthers who continue to dig.  Sassi~you are amazing!  Great job turning up RS's facebook page! 

Sassi,

What information, if any, do we know about these peeps, their known associates etc... regarding things such as prior arrests, status of citizenship etc...?

Has there been anything found involving illegal drug sales/trafficking etc... in regards to any of the people in the list you have researched thusfar?

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Bless your heart, Sassi, I'm right here with you.

There are a lot of clues and what we know can be looked at in ways we have not yet considered. 

I need to clear my head and rethink this.  I read all you post and digest it, so it's not for nothing, okay?

 ::MonkeyKiss::

You are so right, Kyron is still missing and this case should not be forgotten.

Appears like a fit.  There is one business, but it has been around longer:

 Entity Name    RUDY'S TRUCKING, INC.     File Number    60955646
 Status    ACTIVE
 Entity Type    CORPORATION     Type of Corp    DOMESTIC BCA
 Incorporation Date (Domestic)    03/13/2000     State    ILLINOIS
 Agent Name    RODOLFO SANCHEZ     Agent Change Date    04/19/2006
 Agent Street Address    9704 MINNICK AVE     President Name & Address    RODOLFO SANCHEZ 9704 MWNICK AVE OAK LAWN 60453
 Agent City    OAK LAWN     Secretary Name & Address    RODOLFO SANCHEZ SAME
 Agent Zip    60453     Duration Date    PERPETUAL
 Annual Report Filing Date    03/08/2011     For Year    2011
 Old Corp Name   04/12/2000 - RODOLFO SANCHEZ TRUCKING SERVICES, INC.

Sassi - I'm still following - not much to say right now - before you know it will be the 1 year anniversary - only 2-3 weeks more before Staton has his next review with the Commissioners.  I sure hope we hear something substantive.

I agree, Kyron is not forgotten but it's hard to hash and re-hash old news continuously.  IMO, Kaine and Desiree need to get Kyrons name in the news more.

For me the saddest thing of all is that someone knows what happened to Kyron and she's not talking. 

Sassy really was this necessary? What a rude response. FYI I don't have every post, every name, every scenario burned into my memory. You caught me I don't hang on every post at BOC. Sorry if I am not living up to your standards. Geez.. Wonder why no one posts, it can be a bit aggravating.

Kyron is not forgotten, not by me and not by many others who post on this site.

Totally agree with you Klaas on all points.

Has it been determined exactly who the little girl is?  The girl in the picture reminds me of a slightly younger version of the little actress who plays Juanita Solis on Desperate Housewives http://www.google.com/search?q=juanita+solis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=juanita+solis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) .  Her name (stage or real?) is Madison De La Garza.

You're absolutely right TG, and I hope you will accept my apology. My frustrations were really pointing to myself. Again, I'm sorry.

Kyron's candles:


http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Kyron

 ::MonkeyAngel::

Thanks Sassi, headed back over to read at BOC and yep, I see the connect.  I still wonder if TH eldest was moved because of some threat towards her or her child at one time not even thinking that little Ky might be in the line of fire.  Maybe she did something late the year before Kyron went missing that was offensive and needed retaliation according to her "lover".  Something went haywire around Nov., Dec., Jan., I feel.  Just look at her appearance during that time.  She was looking healty then all of a sudden she's bloated and gaining weight and apparently hiding a whole bunch and it took a toll on her and her marriage and family.  I'm just wondering if she was threatened and fears for her life maybe that is why she isn't coming forth with any info.  Maybe it's out of fear for what could happen to her family maybe even Kitty?  Seeing that one child has probably been taken and (sorry guys) most likely murdered she knows/fears that these people are above the law?  Maybe she fears the mob?  You know Mexican crime syndicates are notoriously vicious.  They take out whomever is in front of them when seeking revenge or just sending a message.

 ::HelloKitty::

with how her life is now as a prisoner in her parent's home,. she could go into the Witness Protection Program, if that was the case.

What guarantee would she have that they wouldn't decide to get rid of her at any point, if it was a mob thing?

Sassi
I am here and I think you have found something
I Always watch for your posts
Here and Blinks
Thanks for all your efforts

I have never felt this whole case depends on Terri talking
But it might help
Some one else out there knows where Kyron is IMO

By the way I enjoy being a Monkey
I am not a big poster on either site  Blinks or here
But I am always here
Hoping to find Kyron every day

First off, apology accepted Sass, thank you.

Melisb I have thought of this scenario before. Who really knows what is going on and what happened with Terri or whoever. At times I wish there would be a leak of information, surprising there hasn't been.
Isn't that odd? No leaks? Nothing coming out. I am not sure if I have encountered that before. Usually someone will leak something. 

Kaine kind of opens up:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/05/kaine_horman_endures_year_sinc.html

and a similar article on Desiree...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/05/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_2.html

I'm going to reply to the BOC post here at SM because Blink is very busy, so this will be faster.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments)

MockingbirdSings says:
May 28, 2011 at 12:31 pm

I put the picture of Rodolpho Sanchez with the little girl from FB next to Blink’s picture. I don’t think they are the same man and definitely not the same girl. Blink’s girl is blond, the FB one has black hair and their faces are different.

I tried resizing the FB picture to see if a little more roundness, or less, would help, but they still don’t look the same to me. The more I look at them, the more differences I see.

___________________________________

I don't for one moment think, or believe that the child in the pic in Blinks blog, is Rudy's daughter. To make that assumption, because she was captured in the photo, would be just that. An assumption.

If we close our minds to assumed information, then we end up taking two steps backwards.

My post here about Rodolfo Sanchez was about connecting the dots of known associates, thanks to justice4ky at BOC. She dropped the bread crumbs and I followed it. Where have you seen, so far, where ALL of the associates are clammed together?

If you don't see a connection with Oregon and/or Washington, is it because there is no connection; or is it because you haven't found it yet?

I wanted to add that there are still many of us who pray for Kyron daily.  We may not speak about him here daily, but he is in our prayers, hearts, and thoughts.

Good articles, thanks for posting.
The amount of frustration, anger and hurt that Desiree must be feeling, it is a wonder to me how she has not attacked Terri. Seriously, I am not a violent person but I could honestly see, in Desiree's place, my punching Terri in the face until she talked.

BBM

self edit

I meant to say: " If we close our minds and rely on assumed information, then we end up taking two steps backwards."

 ::MonkeyDevil:: I agree, but I would rather see Terri and the vampire(s) get out smarted.

We can't take the pain away from Desiree, but maybe, just maybe, we can help her get some closure. That is my prayer for her.  ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::HelloKitty::

monchichi.  Thanks for the links to those articles about Kaine and Desiree.

I just want to go lock up some of those people who comment.  They have no morals.  If a missing child is not important, then what is?

Sassy... I have never stop coming by to check in here about Kyron and I always take time to read your posts and even try and catch up on them (and others too).
 I haven't posted for a very long time because in the frenzy of the Kyron board last year I realized I needed to learn a lot more about adding something that could actually assist the brainstorming sessions in finding Kyron. The best I could finally do was to try and comfort some people here by adding my 2 cents worth about understanding the long process of a case from being the daughter of a Homicide detective and Sheriff in Oregon .
However you and other old timers here are nothing short of being brilliant in your research and diligence in connecting the dots. No one knows where the answers will come from. Why not SM or BOC as easily as LE in Oregon.
I understand your frustration on so many levels. I just wanted to stop in and say hi and let you know all you do counts.

Sassy I spent some time over the past couple of days reading postings over at blinks. It is interesting to read the possible connections. I think for me, what leaves me wondering is the names are all so common. Then again, perhaps too many names together to be just another family. It is good you are looking into it because truth be told, nobody knows or can say with any certainty who is involved and who is not involved.

Yea the articles has some trolls posting. Isn't it shameful that people do that? I can't understand it.

When ever I watch Desiree I feel such anger for what she is going through. I was glad to read she is not resigning herself to 5 years of this.

I agree TG. Way too many names clumped together to be a coincidence. All of them started their FB's in January. Why January? I know one thing that happened in January. The new searches on Skyline Blvd., Mooreland rd., and Dixie Mountain area.

These FB's could be totally fictitious, and if they are, why? Why right now? It's not feeling right to me.

Me too TG. Come hell or high water, Desiree is determined to bring Kyron home.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I agree; too many coincidences at this point.  This is much bigger than we're really aware of, IMO.  I realized that when Staton hired two experts to go over cell phone records for all calls made during that morning in that area and the addition of six FBI special agents.

Yes and no.  Multnomah county only has a few detectives/investigators.  I is very small compared to Portland City that is said to have over 90 detectives.  If you believe the two ex-LE self proclaimed "experts", they are even on rotation from other LE functions.  I can see them asking for help.

From what I understand, LE is tracing all the cell phones in the area.  E.g. maybe a regular phone and a bat phone traveled together, or a cell phone traveled to a meeting place, or had the battery removed for a while.  That is a lot of triangulation, and a lot of automation to sort through it.  IMO MCSO deals with SAR, but I doubt that they have the FBI capability of getting an full electronic footprint within 30 minutes.

I agree there is a lot of noise.  Find the source of the noise, and you get closer to the perp.

I don't know who you are talking about as far as "the two ex-LE self proclaimed "experts". When I'm looking at the Kyron case, I don't let anyone's opinion or thoughts influence me. Not even Blinks.

I don't believe they are ONLY looking at cell phone pings. Btw, if you take the battery out of your cell phone, the phone is dead, and has to be recharged.

There is something going on in this case that smells like rotten eggs.

Yes, but, all of this is after first having the help of 42 different agencies for months.  Don't aim to be argumentative...it's just that I keep reminding myself that an immense amount of manpower has been submitted and all that wouldn't be necessary just to go after one person.  There's much more to this, IMO.  Gosh only knows where it's all leading.

Sassi, don't we "know" that the two experts Staton hired is in the phone and IT areas?  Ergo: emails, cell phone, pings, texts.

Community Work Day June 4, 2011

http://bringkyronhome.org/events.html

I just meant to show the arguments for a MCSO to bring in extra help.  Don't get me wrong, I agree: there is something big(ger) going on.  With all respect, I doubt a lawn maintenance guy could have set this in motion and eluded all the agencies.

On the side .. $100k for a divorce attorney?

And I don't think they are even divorced yet or have actually decided anything in regards to the divorce. She is one expensive divorce lawyer! Mine was a high priced attorney out of the bay area, that cost me just over $15000 and I thought that was expensive.

Sass just wanted to point out, a battery can come out of a phone without needing to be charged. You just have to turn it on. At least the ones I have had over the years.

She had said in the interview when asked if she felt it was going to take 5 years, she said very matter of factually, "NO". Your right, come hell or high water, she will bring her son home. I have no doubts

It is time for Kyron to come home.

Yes, it is! not tomorrow, not next week, not next monthy, next year, next 5 years, it is time right now for Kyron to come home!!! Enough already, enough!

How many posters feel Terri could have put Kyron into a child protection underground? Last year I read an article about a woman that runs an underground, I think it was even out of oregon. She spoke about once the child is taken they go poof and nobody talks because it would put at risk all of the children. So has anyone else considered this?

Tracy Girl, it's funny you bring that up as I had been pondering that exact scenario for several days and there are aspects to this investigation that could point in this direction.

-trucking companies affiliated with named in the case and Kyron awareness posters going up on the side of semi's
-parents felt strongly Kyron is alive
-sightings of Kyron after he went missing indicate he was not taken for the specific purpose of abduction for murder
-the number of people involved that morning with batphones and supportive of Terri and her silence could only be possible if they were led to believe they were helping a little boy
-the letter at the Wall of Hope stays with me....  'Where she can no longer hurt me, DAD.'  It appears to have been written to Kaine and hints that Kyron is safe and will be reunited with Kaine at a later time and place.
-Jason Name Redacted's father's affiliation with Mexican orphanages and Dede's involvement




http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-Horman–Desiree-Young-827-pt-2-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html
_______________

'Kyron was there, he was involved, he saw it all.  What was he even doing out by the truck with another person in it?'

Okay, so what was Kyron involved in and what did he witness?  Desiree's statement would imply there were other activities surrounding his abduction. 

She followed this statement with a very sure indication that Kyron is still alive, three months after his disappearance.  Kaine was in agreement.  That would indicate they felt Kyron was taken for a very specific purpose, this was in no way random, and there were other activities involved outside of him being taken.

I have to agree with you both on the underground issue.  I brought it up long time ago and got shut down quick cause a few thought I was defending TH.  I just don't want to believe she had him killed or did it herself.  I want to think he is alive but the options of where he is is scary.  He could be underground and safe with other kids because TH actually had a fear of something she caused, did, or was part of or he was passed to pervs in a sex ring.  Don't really like either but I really want to think something has scared her into silence so bad she is too fearful to talk.  I was asked why I don't think Kitty was sent off then and I said because she really never left TH's or KH's sight.  Maybe her bloated look was from drinking cause she was afraid of something. But she was a drinker before so I don't really know.  I still feel like LE has concentrated on TH so hard that they didn't see all the players in the disappearance of this beautiful little boy.  With all that said we do know Kyron is gone and it looks like TH had something to do with it.

 ::HelloKitty::

Taking a child from his family causes horrifying harm to the child.  I am assuming that these underground child groups take a child and a parent ?  Like ones that I have heard of that the parent knows the child is being sexually abused by a parent, but can't prove it?

Taking a 7 year old child from his loving mother and step father and his loving father would not be a good thing.  He would be terrified and scarred emotionally.

With all of this advertising, anyone who thought they were helping a child has to think again.  This is no service for Kyron.

I agree.  $100K for a divorce attorney?  Why?  Or has Rackner provided more services that we've not been made aware of yet?

Certain kinds of drugs can bloat you, as well; i.e., steroids - doctor prescribed - like they prescribe sometimes for sinus infections to take the swelling out of the sinuses. 

I don't understand why he is spreading these half truths, like "paying for the rest of my life".  Emotionally, yes, but financially that is quite a stretch given INTC's salary and ECBP/EB bonus plans.

$100k is a lot of money for not even being divorced.

It sure is!  They're no where near the end of the divorce.  They still have to decide on the settlement and the custody.  The two most important things in this and most all divorces. 

A good part of the money is probably still in the retainer waiting until the civil proceedings go into effect. 

It still seems on the very high side.  I have family members who fought for custody of two children.  They spent around $50,000 and the case went all the way to the state Supreme Court.

Amy - TY - that's a good guide line for us.  $50K and all the way to surpreme court.

Kaine's talking $100K and he's only at "abatement" stage....nothing going on. 

Something's not right with his statement - if he has racked up attorney fees for $100K, they there's more going on than a divorce and a simple RO, IMO.

A point I find interesting about the underground theory is the fact that Kaines brother was arrested for child molestation. Could Terri have used that to get people in the underground to believe her? Not saying it was the truth but it could have been used as a way to convince people Kyron was in trouble.

Anyone recall Kaine saying Terri is a master of deception? It is one of the comments which lead me to consider all of this.

Why would she not send her daughter? Perhaps because she felt she was there to protect her daughter? Why is she not trying to get her daughter now? She can't, her plan backfired on her. in my opinion.

 ::MonkeyShovel::
I do wonder what age a Child must be in order for their voices to be heard in family court? How old is Kyron now?

Kyron would be 8 now. I think it all depends on the judge. I was once waiting for my case to be called and the one before me, the mother wanted to read a letter her son had written about what he wanted, the judge said no, the mom reminded the judge he was her 16 year old son, the judge said it didn't matter. However, when I moved from that county to another, my attorney entered a letter written by my 7 year old (at the time) son. 

Beth Holloway said she would never leave Aruba without Natalee, but of course she had to do so and despite no one ever trying harder to find her daughter, she hasn't been able to bring her home. Desiree has the same kind of intentions, but it doesn't mean it will happen.

Even if Th is eventually tried and convicted, I don't think anything but an accident will locate Kyron and bring him back to his mom. It won't be for lack of trying on Desiree's part, but if the person who knows will never tell, a la Joran, there is nothing much a mother can do.

 ::HelloKitty::

unfortunately, so true Bebe. 

May Desiree somehow get some sort of peace.

MOO:  Her plan may have backfired, but it didn't explode...there appears to be no trace of Kyron.  Like Kaine and Desiree say...she's good.  Perhaps she is formulating a new "plan" to take the baby, or possibly her cold feelings toward Kaine (MFH), Kyron (POOF) and James (go to your father) extend to the baby too, and she's happy to just move on to a new life without all the "baggage".  I wonder if she gloats about her cleverness? MOO   

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/KyBillboard.jpg?t=1306849432)

 ::MonkeyAngel::

 ::MonkeyAngel:: ::MonkeyAngel::

What a wonderful billboard for Kyron
One that should touch the coldest heart

Maybe but she can't possibly be happy in her self-made prison either, I guess?  I think she could have gained alot more freedom if she were completly innocent of Kyron going missing.  JMO.

Terri's life must suck right now. She's a 40 year old woman living with mommy and daddy. She can't go anywhere, do anything, she doesn't even have her daughter. You know how difficult it is for a mother to lose custody of a baby?  In my opinion she looks pathetic.

Actually, she's 41 now. Poor pitiful Terri. I guess she's not going to get that motorcycle she wanted.  ::MonkeyDevil::

Does anyone remember this. I remember reading this early on and it always stuck with me.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
 (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html)

Domestic troubles

<snip>

Three months later, the couple got married in their bathing suits in a small ceremony presided over by Kaine's dad on a beach in Kauai, Hawaii. On Mother's Day, Kaine gave his bride a brand-new candy apple red Ford Mustang GT.

She put a vanity license plate on the car — RDSQRL — shorthand for her nickname, Red Squirrel.

About the same time, Terri was working as an assistant manager at Newport Bay restaurant in Washington Square. Don Alanen, a former customer, had many conversations with her when eating there with his wife. He was impressed by her professionalism.

"She always seemed to be in control," Alanen said. "I never heard her say anything to anybody that was upsetting."

Terri talked to the couple about wanting to become a manager in the high-tech industry where Alanen worked. She also said she had been a bodybuilder and planned to return to intensive workouts at some point.

And she talked about Kyron.

"I can't recall that she called him a stepson," Alanen said. "I'm pretty sure she said our son."

Alanen said that when Terri became pregnant, she told him she was thrilled to be having another baby.

Her pregnancy surprised Kaine, who thought they were not going to have children.

In November 2008, Kiara Ariel was born.
__________________________

That was sometime in late 2007 or early 2008. She already had her BA in teaching. What was her sudden interest in the "high-tech" area? How would she even qualify for that? Is she more "tech savvy" than we know? I remember her talking about 'flashing' her phone in the sexting dialogue. Where or WHO did she learn that from?

Since she wasn't having any luck getting a full time teaching job, did she meet someone that she thought may help her get a job in that area? Did this person end up being the "vampire"?

Is Kaine, in what would be considered, a high tech field? maybe she liked where Kaine worked and wanted to also work there? Don't know. I would guess she knows more then I do since I am not sure what "flashing a phone" would be.

http://www.kptv.com/news/28090402/detail.html

<SNIPPED FROM ABOVE>

Young said Terri Horman told her something chilling after failing her first polygraph test.

“I was sitting in the recliner in the living room and she leaned over the chair and said, 'I want you to know, I loved your son.’ And I flipped out. I told Tony, ‘You better get me out of this house or I'm going to kill her,” Young said.

Sorry perhaps I am feeling a bit dull today. Was it because she use the word "loved" rather then love? As in past tense?

I highly doubt that Terri was interested in working for the same company as Kaine.

Flashing your phone is changing your carriers. Basically to leave a different footprint.

http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Flash-your-cell-phone (http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Flash-your-cell-phone)

What is Cell Phone Flashing ?

If you are like most people today you have a cell phone and like most of us you don't stick with the same carrier forever. When you change carriers you need a phone that will work on their network so you have two choices, buy a phone through your new carrier and get locked into a one or two year contract or use your current phone on their network. For most people the cheapest and best solution is to use your current phone. Thus phone Flashing. Flashing is the process of loading Carrier specific files to handsets from other carriers in order to connect the phone to the new carrier.

Yes TG. It's because she used the "past tense" word of "loved". That was quite a slip.

I think her telling Desiree that shows she was feeling all eyes on her.  

TH's "past tense" comment was made in a very interesting context: she had just failed her first poly.  Could it be possible she thought her arrest was going to be imminent so she was offering Desiree some sort of explanation?  Which makes me think, if you thought you were about to be arrested for the murder of a child, why would you tell the child's mother that you really loved the child???  Does it indicate if TH was involved in Kyron's disappearance, that it was a accident or that TH did not have control over the situation?  It just struck me as such a strange comment considering that a response more along the lines of "I really want you to know I love your son and I'm going to do everything I can to find him" would have seemed more appropriate for the situation.
 ::MonkeyEek::

 ::HelloKitty::

It does sound like she thinks that she is going to be busted, to me

If she did say "loved" she may have meant as in taking care of him, etc...knowing he was not coming back to her house if and when he was found?
Or Desiree could have heard her wrong.
Am not defending TH...just seems possible that Desiree could of heard her wrong. What a tensse situation it must have been at that house and Desiree believed TH had done something to Kyron from the moment she heard he was missing...

I agree Bebecat or she could just be one of those people who don't seem to say the right thing ever.  I have the feeling even if there was proof on camera that TH didn't carry Kyron out of school that day that DY might still resent TH because she was the last to see him that morn plus what she has learned.  I am in full support of DY so don't get me wrong.  Things said at time of crisis can be misunderstood often and interpreted in diff way when looking back too.

This link was posted by puzzled on BOC. Thanks puzzled!  ::MonkeyKiss::

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments)

__________________________________________

http://kezi.com/news/local/213930 (http://kezi.com/news/local/213930)

New Billboards About Kyron's Case

 ::snipping2::

Young also says she's aimed them at the conscience of Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman.

Young suspects that Moulton Horman is responsible and dangerous.

The investigators say they suspect Moulton Horman offered her landscaper money to kill the boy.

But they didn't arrest her because of a lack of evidence.

I think that article, if you can call it that, on kezi, is wrong...I think they are referring to the so-called MFH...

And who are these investigators who think this? A quote, or a name would be nice...I hate things written in this way...so irresponsible...

I also think that poor Desiree would never believe TH was not involved, even if a perp was caught and confessed and had no ties to TH...but unfortunately I do not think that will ever happen...no one will confess in this case...it will be horrible for Desiree because she will not ever get that tiny satisfaction she needs that might come from the perp, TH or otherwise, admitting to it, and actually leading her to Kyron...even if eventually TH is convicted, she won't get this...If Kyron is found it won't be through TH...

 ::HelloKitty::

a reputable news source gets three verifications of what they are reporting.

The people who are sources do not wish to be named.  That is so common.  Look at news articles from around the US on any topic.  There are often "sources".  People are willing to talk as long as they are not named.

The reporter goes to at least three sources and will see if the info is the same.  Standard operating procedure for news sources of any kind.  This is nothing new with the Kyron case

 ::HelloKitty::

I was thinking about Terri talking.

She has an alcohol problem.  Some of the indicators are:  Does your drinking cause problems?  Losing a teaching license and arrests for DUI certainly are indicators.

There is no way for her to be in recovery because she cannot do steps for recovery.  Therefore, she may drink again.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, so when and if she starts up again, her disease will have progressed as if she never stopped drinking.

Therefore, she may spill while drunk or even have a blackout which leads to information.  there is hope that Terri made produce some information at some point

http://www.kptv.com/news/28107968/detail.html

"Kaine Horman: 'You've Got To Keep Going, You've Got To Find Him'"

I know that I am not alone and it is true when I say that we here at SM will keep going for as long as it takes. Kyron has our hearts. I have two little men near the same age as Kyron.  Quitting is not an option.

Were you able to read the comments at the site of this article? The one from crime4all has my head spinning. Do we have any data regarding Desiree seeking modification of an order regarding her Son, Quinn?

omg!

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-1-year-anniversary-123042478.html

"PORTLAND - After one year, the search for Kyron Horman and whomever has been hiding him has not let up."

http://twitter.com/#!/KGWNews (http://twitter.com/#!/KGWNews)  Fix link.  MB


KGWNewsKGW News
1 year after Kyron Horman disappeared, police say 'there will be a conclusion' - KGW Special report 7:30 PM http://bit.ly/iBG9IN - #Kyron

Now those are some weird comments coming from LE and news stations.

Edit to correct link per Puzzler.  MB

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/kyron_horman_investigation_to.html
Kyron Horman investigation to take on 'technical focus,' sheriff's office says

This doesn't sound like they've gotten very far with the experts and the FBI Special Agents: they're talking "2nd" year of investigation.  

Sounds more like Kaine's remarks that this could take years.

I'm saddened.  I was really hoping we'd get more than this for Kyron from Staton at his next review with the Commissioners, due mid-June.

This has been made public, obviously to soften the blow that is to come during that review.

I'm so sorry...the link above is obviously the wrong link (one I posted in Caylee's thread).  My apologies. Thanks!  I've replaced them with your corrected link.  MB

Here's the correct link:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/kyron_horman_investigation_to.html

Kyron Horman investigation to take on 'technical focus,' sheriff's office says

MB...thank you so much.

Sad indeed.  Sounds like they are dissolving the Task Force, and entering the 21st century by switching to computer databases (requiring data entry).  Also see
  http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2011-06/1276/45079/Kyron_Horman_Press_Release_6-2-11.pdf

I'm not sure I understand how the MCSO can make a declarative statement, such as "there will be a conclusion".

That leads one to think they will find Kyron or find out who's responsible for Kyron going missing.  Most people will think that because, like me, that's what the want to think.

However, a conclusion could be that they've exhausted all lead and data information and they are unable to find Kyron.

I hate the thought of not finding Kyron.  At the same time, I'm not encouraged by MCSO stating they are going into the "2nd year" of investigation.

Their latest statement sounds much like the last one, sadly.
They have to say there will be a conclusion...this is a huge case, all eyes on it, they keep giving the stats of witnesses, interviews, tips, costs, etc...
I have never heard an LEA say there "won't" be a conclusion to any major case...

My message to Kyron, Desiree, and Kaine:

Tomorrow will mark one year to the day when someone took Kyron from his parents, and from the ten's of thousands of people that have come to love you as our own son.  What a powerfully angelic boy you are.

You have a smile that can fill our hearts with warmth, and bring people from all over the world together to stand up and say, side by side with your momma, and repeat her words, "We promise we will NEVER give up."

God is with you Kyron, Desiree, and Kaine, and when the time is right, God will bring Kyron home. Until then, I will be guided by the love of all of the people that will not give up, until you are home.

 ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyAngel::

Thank you for the new news all.

Time is irrelevant until Kyron is found.  As long as they continue it's a good thing imo.  Terri can remain in her self imposed prison.  She's free to move about - live and breath.  Kyron on the other hand we do not know about.

Prayers for Kyron and those who love him.

I can't believe we are still here after all this time.  Peace and love to you, little man, and all that love you.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/kyron_horman_task_force_to_dis.html
 

Kyron Horman task force to disband July 1, but will re-form if 'something breaks,' sheriff says

http://www.kptv.com/news/28123077/detail.html

Terri Horman's Neighbors Say She Keeps Quiet In Roseburg

Small article and good video.

All I can think of today is one year ago Kyron was safe. A year ago today,it would be the last day he played with friends at school, the last day with his family, the last night he would sleep in his bed. I hope and pray the day prior to his going missing was a wonderful day, filled with fun and love and all the things little boys love to do. My prayers are with all who loved Kyron, may God comfort them.

Today marks officially one year that Kyron has been missing.

I'm glad Desiree is spending the day at home with family to nurture her and that she's putting in a fountain and planting flowers for Kyron.

So sad.

http://www.kptv.com/print/28129051/detail.html

Kyron’s Mom Marking Anniversary With Family

(snip)

Young says she will spend Saturday looking at pictures of Kyron with her family. They will also plant some of Kyron’s favorite flowers under a plum tree in their yard.

Young also thanked law enforcement officers, volunteers and family members for their support during the last year.

“My belief in the goodness in people and the strength of hearts everywhere has been restored. I believe that is what will bring Kyron home to us -- the goodness in people,” she says.

(snip)  Multnomah County Sheriff's detectives, FBI agents and up to four state justice department investigators have spent the past six months examining at least 60 persons of interest in the disappearance of Kyron from his school.  (snip)

(snip)  At the one-year anniversary of Kyron's disappearance, Kyron's stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, remains the focus of investigators. But they still don't know what happened to the child and have had to consider all options, including his being abducted, becoming a victim of human trafficking or being killed.    (snip)

(snip)   During the investigation of the other potential persons of interest, the team realized that some evidence -- namely phone records and computer log-on information from Skyline School the day Kyron went missing -- were not kept by the school district as the sheriff's office didn't request the preservation of those records.   (snip)

Oh, Puzz!  None of the above is good.  In fact, it's bringing me to tears to think that this sounds like the big let down, "sorry, we did all we could but should there be a break we'll call some folks back in to look at it"!  That is exactly how I read that!  Please someone tell me that this is just what they are 'putting out' there to maybe throw someone off and really are hard at work on his case.  To the Great Man above, please show us a sign somehow so he can be brought home.

Puzzler: Thanks for the links.

Well, color me stupid. Way to go Barney Fife.  ::MonkeyMad::

Wow, at least 60 persons of interest. Too bad about the records from school.

Crazymaking.

I had this whole post typed out about the failures of investigators and our judicial system but I think what's important in this moment is the memory of Kyron, a boy I would have loved to have known and laughed with and played with.

I was given a rare hydrangea by my daughter for Mother's Day and I'll be planting it today in memory of Kyron.  What greater joy than a hug given by tiny arms, or wise words from the mouth of a babe, or laughter carried through the windows on a warm summer day of children having fun?  A smile poking through a dirty face?  The willingness to be held close and snuggle? 

I will post later, this mouthful I'm chewing on of what needs to be fixed within our system of justice. 

God bless all you Monkeys, hold your babies close and know them for the gift they are, no matter their imperfections, they are precious.

 ::MonkeyAngel::

I know, I feel the same way. It is too bad the school didn't have camera's, that really allowed for this crime.

Sass it makes me upset as well. How could they not ask for the school records to be preserved? The school would have been the first crime scene. Makes me wonder if the evidence is in something they forgot to get or neglected to look at. It begs the question, what else did they miss?

Sorry I am coming off angry but the fact LE is giving up and that is what they are doing, they are just coloring pretty, it does not sit well with me at all. They say they looked at 60 persons of interest but admit they didn't get records from the school, the last place Kyron was at. The school didn't have common sense practices, the police didn't conduct a complete investigation, Kyron got less then what he deserved.

I pray that Desiree will hire a private PI. She needs one now if she doesn't want this to take the 5 years Kaine is talking about.

Kyron needs to be found, what is in place right now is not working. Time to try something new.

God be with you Kyron and may He show the way to you.

I always thought LE waited far too long to their parking lot reconstruction exercise and this latest news about what LE forgot to do/dudn't do only seals my discomfort with this entire investigation. How everything inside that school, including and especially computer and phone records, were not requested or examined at once, is beyond me. By that Monday LE was probably sure Kyron had not vanished into the woods on his own and if they had learned records had already been destroyed that first weekend, for example, they would have had good reason to look towards those who destroyed them. But if they did not seek the records until much later, the reasons become hazier and the destruction could be explained away.

Ugh, I just feel rotten about this entire case and how it has and continues to be handled.

I have been thinking about this whole phone record thing. From what I understand nothing on a phone record or a computer record ever really goes poof. You can't erase anything forever, there is always an imprint of it or a copy of it somewhere. Is this correct?

TG: There is a lot of stuff out there that can make information go poof. Look at this link, and read the article. As far as computer records, there is a software system called Vanish that uses encryption keys to delete information. It's free to the public and can be used easily.

http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=78132 (http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=78132)

 ::snipping2::

“A major advantage of Vanish is that users don’t need to trust us, or any service that we provide, to protect or delete the data,” Geambasu said.

Researchers liken using Vanish to writing a message in the sand at low tide, where a person can read it for only a few hours before the tide comes in and permanently washes it away. Erasing the data does not require any special action by the sender, the recipient, or any third party service.

“Our goal was really to come up with a system where, through a property of nature, the message, or the data, disappears,” Levy said.

Released this week, Vanish is a free, open-source tool that works with the Firefox browser. To work, the sender and the recipient must have installed the tool. The sender then highlights any sensitive text entered into the browser and presses the “Vanish” button. The tool encrypts the information with a key unknown even to the sender.

You can read the text for a limited time only, when the recipient highlights the text and presses the “Vanish” button to unscramble it. After eight hours, the message will be impossible to unscramble and will remain gibberish forever.

Vanish works with any text entered into a web browser: Web-based e-mail such as Hotmail, Yahoo!, and Gmail, web chat, or the social networking sites MySpace and Facebook. The Vanish prototype now works only for text, but researchers said the same technique could work for any type of data, such as digital photos.

It is technically possible to save information sent with Vanish. A recipient could print e-mail and save it, or cut and paste unencrypted text into a word-processing document, or photograph an unscrambled message. Vanish is meant to protect communication between two trusted parties, researchers said.

“Today, many people pick up the phone when they want to talk with a lawyer or have a private conversation,” Kohno said. “But more and more communication is happening online. Vanish is designed to give people the same privacy for e-mail and the web that they expect for a phone conversation.”

But why would the school go to such lengths to erase messages? Seems sort of over the top to me but then again, not sure of the normal practice of a school in regards to computer and phone records.

This really upsets me.  Seems LE had done everything possible to "protect" that school.  This is just another example.
Also, I don't know if the reporter has his words confused or mixe up, but "went missing" and "were not kept" are two different meanings.   I'm assuming that's on th computer log-in information.  Can someone explain to me "why" phone records cannon be obtained by the carrier?  Isn't that the way that all other phone records are obtained during a criminal investigation? Or, was there some kind of internal phone record kept by the school.   

 ::HelloKitty::

The records make no sense.

I think most school districts keep their records for a long time.

I doubt if a school would use a vanish program...  Why would they do that?  I have never heard of a school doing that. 

Bringing over a post by Neighbor from BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-136/#comments

neighbor says:
June 4, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Rose says:
June 3, 2011 at 9:04 am

(snipped) I believe MCSO was so influenced by TY/DY’s determination Terri did it, and catching that flake would be easy, they skipped a professional approach from Day1.
_ _ _ _ _

I can’t agree more. MCSO missed the opportunity not only to solve this case, but also to gain respect in a community. I appreciate their effort, but some of their behavior has been unprofessional. Let me give some example of how it should be:

- That first Saturday, I got visit from two FBI agents. They were polite, used prepared questionnaires, did not wear visible weapons, searched most nooks of my the property and house, had quick access to facts such as photos. In short: quick and to the point.

- Same approach when they followed their profile a few months ago. This time they were checking alibis and doing a more psychological approach. Uncomfortable, but again professional and to the point.

Now, back to MCSO, how can Staton state the he is not “disappointed with the progress of the investigation”? Why announce closing the Task Force on suck a sensitive moment for the family? Why keep up the appearance that this is an isolated event, when even outsiders realize that TMH couldn’t have done it by herself.

http://mobile.oregonlive.com/advorg/db_270548/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=26BrT6NT&storycount=138&detailindex=3&pn=&ps=&full=true

At this link is a picture of the new billboard that Desiree Young had put up for Kyron.

"Why" does it not have a number to call????????

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/
Kyron Horman case: 1 year since Kyron went missing
Posted on June 5, 2011 by Valhall

http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html

Kyron's Grandma: 'We just need to find him, bring him home'
By Patrick Preston KATU News Published: Jun 4, 2011 at 5:19 PM PDT Last Updated: Jun 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM PDT

 ::snipping2::

Kaine and his family said they’re still trying to be patient, hoping it pays off in the end with Kyron’s safe return.
 
“Really there’s no sense of false hope,” Kaine said. “There’s no expecting it’s going to be done in a short amount of time. We have to be ready to go as long as it takes.”
 
Kyron’s grandmother Kris Horman was at the work party on Saturday. She has stayed out of the media spotlight through the entire ordeal, but broke her silence on the one-year anniversary.
 
“We’re going to believe we’re going to find him and there are a lot of people out there that do,” she said. “It’s that positive energy, that’s what’s going to bring him home.”
 
Grandma Kris, as she is known, said she is trying to be patient and knows that miracles do happen.
 
“He’s with us,” she said. “We just need to find him, bring him home.”

 ::snipping2::

http://bringkyronhome.org/

I wonder if Kaine will be so patient about his pending divorce?

Kyron is with us?  He's in our hearts?  We need to remain positive? 
http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html


No, he's not with you and no amount of positivity is going to bring him home.  Hiring a kick a** PI, that might do it.  Meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might help.  Trusting investigators with a room full of paperwork and tons of money to their name who still might need four years won't do it.  They had a school full of witnesses, friends with bat phones who are also witnesses, emails, video, pictures, and they have no idea what happened that morning?  Really?  No idea?

 ::MonkeyNoNo::

I get that until you've walked in the shoes of the parent of a missing child a person does not know how they would react.  I'm just the type of person that when a physician makes a diagnosis I google until I'm sure he's right.  More than once he has not been correct and I've figured out on my own what the correct diagnosis is (in one case my child had a brain tumor and doctor said the tics and other ailments were 'normal', thank goodness I'm tenacious and willing to think for myself)

LE can continue doing what they do but I sure as heck would be doing what I could as well to make sure my child was either found or the evidence lay bare before me so I could surmise to at least SOME degree what became of him.

Sorry for the rant.   ::MonkeyCool::

Positive energy will not bring Kyron home.

Searching MIGHT bring him home.
A confession MIGHT bring him home.
A hiker/hunter/worker MIGHT bring home.
The right tip MIGHT bring home.

Amy: I totally understand your anger and disappointment in the lack of evidence found after so many agencies were involved. Not only do they not have any evidence to state a POI publicly, but they don't seem to have a clue as to where Kyron is, or even what happened that day.

Wrt hiring a PI and/or other outside sources, I agree. They should have let, a person whom shall not be named, search that property with their SAR dogs. It's just unbelievable to me.

Right now, I'm at a loss as what to say or even what to sleuth. I'm just deeply disappointed in how this whole investigation was handled.

Thanks trim! I always enjoy reading Valhalls blogs. She's got fire and spunk.

Amy I agree with all you said and I too am finding myself very frustrated with the whole thing. Sass I agree with you and the search dogs. I agree a pi needs to begin working on this case. The investigation so far has not uncovered anything it seems so time to start something new.

Desiree has, in my opinion, a more grounded view, I hope and pray she and Tony hires a private investigator to help. Someone with fresh eyes and no ties to the community or is within the political arena may be worth considering.

I can't imagine any reason a school would need or want a program like that..just not needed in the school environment.

Also I would think that in a school environment they would not erase email files or any other files for a period of time.

And if they are erased they should be retrieveable.

And there are people that work for the federal government and the various branches of the military, many of them as freelance consultants, that are professional hackers and are able to de-crypt anything on a computer.  Case in point the war on terror ..most of those files and email exchanges from Bin Laden's group and the Taliban were encrypted..but they were still hacked by our government and the files retrieved..we have had that ability pre 9/11.

Vanish may be great for a lawyers office..but I bet someone consulting to the federal government has already broken that code and can retrieve data.


Anyhow..my question..Why haven' t they arrested Terri on lesser charges..like the attempted murder for hire deal?

Really..she has to know something or else she would not have remained so quiet for a year..withuot her daughter...if she was completely innocent of anything to do with this and the murder for hire of Kaine..why would she clam up if she has nothing to tell to begin with?  i know her lawyer advised her not to speak..but come on...a year is a long time without your daughter.  If she has nothing to defend ..why the silence.  Even if she is innocent I would think by now her lawyer would have said okay to the divorce and letting her atleast address those issues.  Just makes her look guilty of something if she is refusing to talk..

I am so disappointed.  I wish they would let us know if DAD and Trejo were unrelated to Kyron's case.  Can't they at least say they've eliminated anything?

Yes, and yes Sassi and Amy's, ITA.

IMO, they are going for the "no body" conviction, which takes at least a year.   If a body were to appear at this point, it could screw up the prosecution's current [non]case against a POI, as yet unnamed! 

Also, IMO, this is mistake.  I'm not convinced that TH is totally innocent.  But if the prosecution screws this up by trying to convict without a body -- when actually a SAR person (who will remain nameless) has scent evidence of cadavers in at least two difference locations associated with this case (both heavily searched by LE) -- if they screw this up and a body appears, I'm afraid TH could get off.  This is JMO.  I'm not an attorney. 

 ::HelloKitty::

I think that the nameless "SAR" person has been shown to be a fraud over and over again.

I don't see how a "no body" case can be prosecuted here; no crime scene exists, no sign of injury to Kyron, no previous known abuse or pattern, etc...it would be very difficult, especially when the defense can present tape after tape of Desiree and Kaine both saying that they believe Terri had Kyron stashed somewhere...

In cases like this, the parents would have to testify and would have to say they are convinced Kyron is dead; I am not sure either one could do that with any conviction. Because, how do they know? No one overheard an incident, no one apparently saw anything unusual, and she is said to be on tape in two stores that morning shortly after she left Skyline.

Way too much doubt here, not only that TH is the culprit but that Kyron is not alive. Many people want little children for their own...and would go as far as to steal one. With so many uncertainties in this investigation, destroyed phone records, delay in reconstructing the scene, seemingly not knowing about the man who was cutting the soccer field for a long time...and he saw kids outside unattended...well, even Jose Baez could probably win a case like this one...

I so agree with you!!!   You know they may be listening only to LE and not taking any initiative.  There are so many folks (all MOO, so please don't anyone be offended)who believe only what their docs, LE, people in authority say, the kind of people who won't even take a Tylenol without asking the doc first and don't even use their common sense to help themselves. I would be begging from week one for a PI to help me!  That is, if I was out of my straight jacket by then.  I would let ANY trained, respected, willing to help SAR, PI, former LE, friend, family, anyone that would help me do so!  LE wouldn't be able to tell me to let them handle it!  I would never interfere with their investigation and do all they asked me to do but I would challenge them if they wouldn't let me have outside help!  If my child was missing I'll be darned if I wouldn't go to the end of the earth and back again for him.

 ::HelloKitty::

so many crazies out there that want to "help".

It's hard to believe that all of those agencies that were working on this screwed it up so badly.  What the heck????

Maybe I'm missing something...but....Staton says they have NO physical evidence of Kryon and a Grand Jury has heard all kinds of testimony....and no one has been indicted.  So, once a year goes by and there's no body found...how could not having enough evidence to indict someone suddenly turn in to evidence because it's been over a year?

Many posters have said that the only evidence is what LE shares with us. 

Okay, what do we know from LE?

Official pressers from Staton in September & December, 2010 and February & May, 2011 - all - tell us they have no suspects, they've checked out persons of interest, they have no physical evidence of Kyron, etc.  All along, LE has told us they don't have the evidence to even name a suspect, let alone make an arrest.

Okay, I take them at their word.  IMO, I don't have a choice.  Otherwise, as embarassed as LE has been, they would have certainly made an arrest.  Legally, it really doesn't matter what either of Kyron's parents say.  Their message is cloaked in their extreme pain.  I understand that.  But....as far as arrests, suspects, etc., the word from LE is "the word".

One year later...."the word" is that oops they forgot to ask the school to retain phone and computer records.  I'm so ticked-off about that.  Hello!?!  How incompetent can you get?  The only good thing wrt phone and computer records is that Staton "hired" experts (probably "because" of not getting the school records).  I'm betting that a bunch of all the records that Staton had the experts check out were all the phone calls made in the area of the school that morning.   

I may be wrong, but since Terri seemed to be LE's tunnel vision scope for a long time, I'm also betting that every single phone call Terri made or received has been checked out, even to the point of following through with each person she talked to - their phone number and all the folks they talked to as well....followed the trail big time on Miss Terri.  Still not enough for an arrest.

The facts are, there's nothing there and after a whole year, this case has gone cold.  After July 1, one detective is assigned to Kyron's case.  IMO, that's a token gesture and a point person that any future tips, etc., would be given to that detective to check out.  LE has gone from inter-action of 42 agencies, 100's or 1000's of searchers, to a task force of 8 and FBI profilers and more searchers, to an addition of two hired experts and 6 FBI Special Agents.  The experts and Special Agents were an all out attempt to hone in and get to the bottom of this case.  The end result is to no longer have the task force and only have one detective assigned to the case. 

I read that they're going to be going to tech stuff...but a detective is not a person who handles tech stuff.  I'm hoping that when Staton addresses the Commissioners we will hear some more details wrt to that aspect.

There are no searches being done.  MCSO doesn't have the funds.  And...I may be wrong, but I can't see how Kaine/Desiree would be getting any substantial donations for searches and Kaine/Desiree have said so many times that "Terri did it", the folks out there - after a whole year - just won't be making donations or not donations of any substantial amount.  I don't mean this to be ugly, but have we ever heard that the collection of money was used to support any search(es)?

Bottom line, after 42 agencies, 1000s of searchers, expert in all things related to cell phones, expert in IT, 6 FBI Special Agents and FBI profilers...all this spanned over an intensive year of investigation...there is nothing.

I'm so angry and I apologize, for I'm sure my post reflects my anger.  So sad that I don't even have the words to describe it.

If I were Kaine/Desiree, like someone else posted, I would have hired my own kick-a** P.I.....looooonnnngggg ago.  Hind sight is always great, though.  I'm not faulting Kaine/Desiree.  I'm just saying what I would have done (and I'm not walking in their shoes and my viewpoint might be greatly different if I were).

Also, I think that meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might be good, too.....or have a P.I. meet with them.  After all, it surely wouldn't be hindering any official investigation at this time. 

Remember....12 months later.....LE cannot make an arrest, cannot name a suspect and cannot even name a person of interest.

July 1, LE is cutting back Kyron's case to one detective.

IMO all those agencies didn't screw it up so badly....the evidence is NOT there.

Wow, great points made. 

All that manpower, all those resources and nothing.

Now, Kyron Horman slips into the void of unsolved cases.

It's awful and, like so many, I am disappointed.

They made some mistakes and it seems they could be costly, since they have not been able to advance the case at all. Not telling the school to keep the records was a mistake and we don't know how big a mistake, but one a defense would exploit. Not interviewing the groundskeeper until, was it August, is a mistake, they should have known within days everyone who was working on the property in any function on June 4th. Not doing the whole where did you park and did you see this white truck thing for a while was a mistake, no one has that good of a memory. People will try to recall and even "invent" things to be helpful, thinking they are telling the truth and all it does is add more confusion. LE said in their own press release a few days ago Kyron was last seen at the doorway of his classroom (and they do NOT say by who)-this means that Desiree's talk about Kyron being in the parking lot by the truck did not pan out. But I am sure in her mind, he was still in that parking lot. Kaine tried to tell her at the time that it had not been confirmed but she just nodded away, oh yes he was. Any little thing like that which LE has ruled out, Desiree still clings to as a part of her "tons of evidence" against Terri. I am a huge supporter of Desiree...but I can't take what she says about the case seriously, I just can't- MCSO knows they can't move forward; they don't have a ton of evidence against anyone.

Is the fact that LE is saying some school computer log ins and phone calls are not obtainable and given the fact using some kind of program to wipe things off the face of the earth is sort of over kill, is this a clue? Were some things deleted intentionally?

They said computer log in, not computer emails. Personal emails from teachers to parents should be private and should not be hackable, but I don't see a program wiping them out and not be retrievable.

At this point, what is there to lose really. I would have had him searched the property, it is not like he could invent something that is not there. Either he would have found something or not.

As for the evidence. I really believe they lost the chance at the evidence.

Are you referring to the lost school records?  I understand the need to preserve absolutely every piece of information, given the lack of any other evidence, but what kind of info could "log in" records have contained?  Do people believe it was an inside job or that the perp logged in to a computer inside the school?  While it is an unfortunate mistake, I do not believe they "lost the chance" at the evidence.  I can't help but think that even with that missing piece of info, they would be right where they are today.

Whoever disappeared Kyron was either extremely lucky or extremely skilled. ::MonkeyNoNo::

With the first loss being "major" one that has haunted Staton and he's said so publicly:

LE lost those first 6 hours because the school did not call about Kyron not being there when roll call was taken.

Could computer log-in records have something to do with why the school failed to notify Kyron's parents?  Didn't they have an auto notification system that failed?  Maybe someone fixed it so that they would have the extra time?

I'm not sure how big a loss the school records are...BUT...the management of the investigation - that the school was never asked to retain the records....makes me wonder how good the investigation as a whole was in those first critical days.  Maybe the investigation was a good one; however, an oversight of not requesting school records seems to be an "elementary" part...one that should have never been overlooked.  And, it makes me suspicion the school's efforts NOT to keep the records.
Pardon me, but it makes me think of dumb and dumber.

Any lost "phone" records were probably obtained eventually LE or FBI. 

I believe we were informed that the school did not have the personnel to make the phone calls.

Okay....just how many kids would be out of school in one day, especially the science fair day, out of what...300-400 students.  I just can't imagine it's not that many.

Respectfully HK, the "unnamed SAR person" is many things, but a fraud he is not. A person with a large ego, yes.

What records exactly are they saying are lost from the school?  A phone call leave a print, a keystroke on the computer leaves a print, I don' get it?  Are they talking about sign in sheets for people visiting the school, ID's given, what?

Talking about phone records and computer log-on records.
Maybe the school uses a different system, IDK.
LE didn't ask them to retain records; school didn't think it was important to keep records.

Still, why would the school not check with LE every step of the way as they destroyed records or allowed the system to automatically destroy records pertaining to June 4th? It makes no sense...

 ::HelloKitty::

Re the "SAR" person.  I have read on line that some of the claims he made of finding people were false.  When a child goes missing, there are so many kooks out there that are trying to "help".  So  many.

I am getting a feeling that some of the people commenting are happy that this investigation has gone nowhere. I also sense passive agressive remarks about Desiree.

 ::HelloKitty::

this word describes what I see

Schadenfreude

Respectfully HK, this will be the last time I comment on this. Your facts are incorrect and mere gossip from posters, of which I think is cruel. I've personally spoke to this person many times and have had many communications with him. He wanted to help find Kyron, at no cost.

 ::HelloKitty::

Nope.  Not gossip from posters.  Look it up on the net and find the facts.

The fact of the matter is that Desiree and Kaine could hire anyone to search.  It does not have to be the particular person in question.

ITA with others I would be moving and becoming more proactive on my own in the physical search for MY Child and of course still giving TH grief on the side with big billboards and posters all over where ever she chose to go.  But that's JMO cuz I still believe she knows more regarding Kyron's last day.

It's very sad and frustrating and I cannot for one minute begin to comprehend what Kaine and Desiree are thinking and feeling I can only say what I would do in their shoes.  Finding my child would be priority number one all else be damned.  Tim Miller always comes to mind first and foremost even tho there are lots of parents who never give/gave up.   


Prayers for Kyron.

O/T But anyone seen No Rose Colored Glasses around?  Miss her!

 ::MonkeyEek::

Hello Kitty, you think posters here are deriving pleasure from Kyron, Desiree, and Kaine's misfortune?

I don't see that at all... I see total frustration with the way this investigation has gone and the lack of information released on whether there is a predator at large whom LE refuses to discuss.

I believe there is a person who took Kyron, at the behest of Terri, and anyone willing to do such a thing is most likely capable of doing it again.  LE has proven over and over again that their focus is on solving crimes, not warning the public of present danger.

IMO, these things go hand in hand and crimes may be solved more efficiently if the public were made aware of investigative findings.  I do see the other side of that, which is privacy related, but we must find some medium ground.

Fatcatlurker, yes, the parents need to take the bull by the horns and get on with their own job of finding their child.  LE has a job but it is not always in the best interest of victims and potential victims.

That said, time is of the essence.  Too much goes by and the lesser the chance becomes of finding the child or attaining any type of conviction.  The trail just goes cold.

HK: You made a statement on SM without any links to verify it. I'm not doing your work for you.

Moving on...........  ::MonkeyBike::

Everyone has an opinion, this one just happens to be very wrong and a bit mean spirited as well. Oh well.

But if he was offering to look for free, then what would he gain out of it. Either he would find a body or not. I just never understood the reason behind the decision to say no to him. All he wanted was something of Kyrons and to see what, if anything was on the property his dogs hit on. Ultimately it was Kaines decision and he made his choice, so ok.

Regarding Desiree, I think everyone is behind Desiree and we all see she is not going to back down. From the outside looking in we can see what has been missing, a PI working for the family. That is not passive aggressive, it is supportive of finding Kyron.

Sadly I think politics plays a role.

 ::HelloKitty::

I

 ::HelloKitty::

I am not putting reference to the "SAR" because on this site, many months ago, it was asked not to talk about him.

I notice that no one is willing to name him, so I certainly am not taking the plunge here. 

There are people that are taking some weird pleasure in this tragedy.  They claim to know things, for instance, when they really do not.  They take pictures off of the google site and pretend they have been there.

As I have said numerous times.  We are nobody.  Kyron's parents have suffered a tragic situation and to second guess them and say things about them to me is passive aggressive.

LE owes no one any info. except what they tell the parents.  The rest of us are nobody and are owed nothing.

I can see why you would believe this is between LE and the parents of Kyron but there is another side.

The taxpayers are footing the bill for LE to investigate the kidnapping of Kyron, to hunt down the person responsible for planning the abduction, the predator who removed the child, and all accomplices who were involved.  The public is at risk living amongst criminals willing to kidnap a child for unknown and possibly horrible reasons. 

If my neighbors child went missing and all appearances indicated LE botched the investigation and our local school did not protect the missing child I would most definitely be expecting answers.  Who knows how far reaching the criminal activity in Kyron's case is?  LE has an idea but they are remaining mum, which has always bothered me because historically during investigations while LE is distracted or no longer focused on a specific crime the criminals are out harming, murdering, and raping other people.

It is not entirely true that LE owes the public, nothing...LE is responsible for the safety of the community, their only duty it not to keep Kaine and Desiree up to speed. They admitted that they still don't know what they have here and mentioned trafficking again as well as sex offenders in their press release, not in a way that sounds like they have completely ruled out anything at all. In fact I think they mentioned these other scenarios as a way of telling the public, without alarming them, that it is possible there is something here besides a wicked stepmother.

I don't live in Portland, but if I did I would be contacting LE about now with some questions. I would not feel comfortable.

And now I see that the principal of Skyline has been transferred to another school...for what it is worth...(don't have link, but his statement is out there, Ben Keefer I think?)

Hello Kitty,
We can't say the name Harry Oaks?

I do not agree with you by us stating Desiree should seek a PI is passive aggressive, that doesn't even make sense. If she doesn't want to then that is her decision, but suggesting it is not putting her down.

I think you really need to rethink what you are getting at because it is rude. To say any of us on this thread are taking pleasure in Kyron not being found or an investigation not having the outcome so many have prayed for is off track at best. I think you are just trying to start trouble like you have tried in the past. So go ahead, have it but you are wrong.

HK: His name is Harry Oakes.I'm not afraid to say his name.

I don't know where you are reading, but to defame someones name and call it "fact" from what you read is, IMO, freaking ridiculous. I lived in Oregon City when Ashley went missing. I saw everything, including when HO found their bodies.

Nobody on this forum has posted any "passive aggressive" post' towards Kaine or Desiree. I've had personal contact with Desiree's family. They read here, but you chose to bring that info over here. Has that helped or encouraged Kyron? NO.

IMO, you are way out there and I'm out of here. I'm not going to listen to this BS any longer. If you can't support Kyron and his family on this thread, and just want to throw unsubstantiated chit out there, then that's your prerogative.

Sorry Monkeys. I'm really trying not to be judgmental, but I refuse to listen or partake in this chit.

I'm gone.....
 

 ::HelloKitty::

Interesting.  I feel people are being incredibly rude about the parents of a missing child.  Implying that they are what____ (fill in the  blank )because they are not going for Harry Oakes or a PI.

If Desiree's family does read here, then I salute them for pressing on in the most difficult situation of anyone's life.

I respect their decisions and conclusions, whatever they may be.  I am not second guessing them on their decisions which are based on information they have and the intelligence that they possess (their brains).

Personally, I would not use HO, but I would at this point, or maybe a little sooner, have hired or obtained my own investigators and specialists, just because in spite of LE's best efforts, Kyron has not been found. I felt that HO behaved very unprofessionally by taking his beef to the web when they did not allow him access. And I do not believe that Kyron is on the Horman property, personally.

It is possible to support LE's efforts and still do what you can to find your child. In most cases, families are forced to hire their owns teams, as they would not usually get a full year of searching and investigating by so many LE agents. Kyron's case was different/special/unusual, so LE did spend lots more than other cases. but they did not, as yet, succeed. I could not wait for the case to be solved, that's for sure. I would have to feel as though I was taking action to make sure everything possible was done by someone who answered only to me, at some point.

BBM

Yeah, I said I was gone, but I peeked.

I would hire Daffy Duck to find my child. Your overall post was right on. It doesn't matter who finds Kyron, as long as he is brought home.

I would not discount that he is not on the Horman property. I know for a fact that in the beginning, MCSO used inferred, horses, SAR, etc. (that was earlier in the case), but that doesn't mean that Kyron wasn't moved. I don't like to speculate or assume. ANYTHING is possible in this case.

TY bebe for that post.

Bringing over this post from BOC.  Looks like the principal of Skyline School has reassigned to another school:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/

WPG says:
June 6, 2011 at 5:33 pm
neighbor says:
June 6, 2011 at 4:54 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/Blink replies:
“Heh?
B”

Oh, my, my.

This is just me, but what will some of the parents of the “other school” think now that the man coming to be in charge of their children, is the one who basically, was with whom the “bucked stopped” in terms of

* the auto-call-parent system – - – system was in the school prior to June 4, it just hadn’t been hooked up yet
* rules of sign-in/out, visitor i.d., etc. were not enforced on June 4
* tech-records which were obviously potential evidence, were neither secured right away or at ANY point following Kyron’s KIDNAPPING.

With much respect, I have to ask, do these folks have a spokesperson? A seven year old child was abducted from this school, and he has not been found, and no arrests have been made, and the task force is to be disbanded in a month.

This is an appropriate public statement? I mean this sincerely and with empathy- what the hell is in the water?

sigh.
B

Sass take a deep breath. See you and I agree on one important point, it doesn't matter who looks, just as long as the child is found. I am not sure I would seek out HO, but if he asked to do it for free I would say yes because who knows. If he found nothing, great, but what if he found something? I think forever I would be asking myself, what if. That is what I want every family to avoid asking themselves, what if....
There are other sars teams out there. In the Amber's case Carry hired a dog team I think a year later and they hit pretty close to where Amber was found. Perhaps Carry can give the name of the team they used? If help is needed with that I can try to find out the name and get that information to whoever.
Anyway, I am going to sleep now. Goodnight everyone. Sass I expect to see you here again, don't leave.

Thank you Klaas! Go back and look at HK's posts...they all seem to try to get under the skin of the person posting next to her.  None of us mind differing opinions and welcome them. Her posts borderline on rude everytime and I don't get it.  Maybe she's just new to a forum but to say to my fellow Monkey, (my own words) about HO, 'nope, go look it up on the internet' is almost rude. 

 ::HelloKitty::

I don't have time now, but I promise that I will find the information about Harry if it hasn't gone poof.

I have to say that I am very upset about people saying things about the parents of a missing child.  I feel they have enough pain without people implying that the parents are not doing enough.  They have family and friends that give them advice, I am sure.

If I had been doing what I could in a situation, be it whatever it is, and people on the internet feel that they have to second guess me, I would be upset.  We don't know what the parents know.  We don't know why they make the decisions that they do.  But i trust that they will do what they can to find their child.  The criticism of them really really really bothers me. 

Harry Oakes - Search Dogs
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.msg1217245#msg1217245

No body is being critical of anything. I suppose there are different type of supporter. Those who sit and hold the hand of people in trouble or hurting and then there are others who want to offer options used in other similar situations learned through experience. Both help, both are fine, both are supportive. 

 ::HelloKitty::

this is info from his blog/my space that does not exist anymore.

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51216&page=6

 ::HelloKitty::

Looking at the experience of Yuri M (the detective in the Casey Anthony case) who wrote about nothing related to Casey, I can see why Harry Oakes cannot be used.

Yuri was spanked for writing on Websleuths.

HK: I'm familiar with that. HO was looking for someone with a boat that he could search SI. Remember, he was using his own money for this.

You have proven nothing, and the fact that you are trying to discredit a man that searches for missing people; mostly at his expense, is quite frankly sinful. You seem to be on this vendetta to discredit him and it offends me.

I personally think you need to rethink your purpose here. Are you here to support Kyron or are you here to pick people apart. I think you're here to troll. JMO.

You are an embarrassment. You make assumptions without looking at the facts. You come in here and try to blame the Monkeys for not supporting the families decisions. Wtf are you doing?

Sorry again Monkeys, but I'm freaking fed up with this poster.  ::MonkeyMad::

One more thing. HO NEVER posted on SM. I gave him some Q & A's through email, and posted them on SM.

Maybe you should use your talent for discrediting people/ Monkeys to searching for Kyron. That would be more useful.

sassifrass-thank you for your continued advocacy for finding kyron.  i haven't been in this thread for awhile but I just read through all of the posts and it is posters like you that help make scared monkeys a wonderful place. 

it makes me so sad that it has been a year since kyron disappeared and i feel like all we have now is a pending divorce case :(  It's so upsetting to think that the police really must not have much evidence.  i hope something breaks sometime soon.

prayers for kyron, desiree, kaine, tony, kiera, and all loved ones of kyron who must continue to ask why? and wonder where their beautiful boy is.  this is just heartbreaking

It is upsetting to me that nothing has changed in an entire year. I can't think of too many cases involving a child with so little info from LE during the space of a year, even if they are not able to make an arrest. Sometimes the public has to know more, in order to be able to provide information. It may be too late now, for people to recall things they may have known 11 months ago or so.

I do think Desiree's husband being LE has held her back from taking any personal action as far as hiring outside investigators. Maybe she will want to try that now, whether or not it will do any good, who can say. But sometimes I felt as though she was going thru the motions when she kept saying she had faith in LE; the frustration came thru at times...Kaine, on the other hand, I have no idea what is going on in his head. I could never be that patient and sure could not talk in terms of "years", not when Kyron hasn't even been found. I know LE would not like me, by this point, not at all...

I wish I felt that the divorce case would help in finding out what happened to Kyron, but I don't believe that. If TH did this, she can't talk, not now, now ever. It is way too late for her to make any deals, in my opinion, especially if he is not alive. I doubt we will ever her voice.

HelloKitty - you aren't making any sense. 

Sass - please don't let one uninformed person get to you.  Just not worth it. 

Dear Sassi,

Sorry I've been off line!  A beloved family member is going through a critical transition/time in their life, and I'm happy to have been there for them (and need to be throughout the rest of this week.) -- But, I have missed you and have been meaning to reach out and thank you for your work on Kyron's behalf.  We really need to talk.  I wish I had your email.  Sigh. 

Anyway, please know that I'm grateful for your continued support in the search for Kyron...

Hope to see you online soon, my friend!

Koko

Thanks Muffy Bee for this link!  Sassi did a lot of work on this, gathering info from HO and trying to help the family locate Kyron.   In the meantime, Klaas was brave/open minded enough to allow it, when most other site's had banned the mention of his name. 

Anyway, I don't want to make a big deal about this other than to say thank you for letting us look at every avenue and turn over every slimy rock to see what lurks beneath.  Ugh.  It hasn't been pretty. 

Onward, though!  Strength & prayers to you, my Monkey Friends,

Kokos

 ::HelloKitty::

What I am referring to is the information that HO gave online on his Myspace.

He talked to potential witnesses and put it out on the internet.  He gave information about Terri Horman that has never been released anywhere except on his information that he gave out to the internet.

Yuri merely answered some people on Websleuths who had expressed some interest in him.  He did not talk about the Casey Anthony case at all, but him talking on the internet was not OK.  His whole testimony could have been denied by the judge.

Therein lies the problems. 

This is a video message from Ruthie In The Sky to Terri Moulton Horman and Houze.  ::MonkeyShocked::

http://www.youtube.com/user/ruthiesky#p/u/1/LSsjyS9CYrY (http://www.youtube.com/user/ruthiesky#p/u/1/LSsjyS9CYrY)

Ruthie's Blog: http://ruthiessky.blogspot.com/ (http://ruthiessky.blogspot.com/)

TY!  ::MonkeyAngel::  ::MonkeyKiss::

Klaas: I'm over her. I did my rage and in the future, I'll just try and ignore the poster. Thanks for the pep talk.  ::MonkeyKiss::

Koko: You can email me any time. My email for here is on my sig line. So sorry to hear about your family member. I'll be sure to say a special prayer along with my prayers for Kyron.  ::MonkeyAngel::

Sure miss ya my friend.

I recall reading her blog a while back and wrote to Sebastian about her.  Yikes!  ::MonkeyShocked::

Who's Sebastian TG? That video was scary!  ::MonkeyEek::

Sebastian was posting on the thread for a while but I haven't seen her in a few months. She and I got to know each other through the Amber Dubois case.

I dropped you an email, did you get it? 

Ohhhhhhh yeah, Sebastian. I adored their posts. A very sensible and well thought out poster. Wish they would come back TG.

Got the email, and sent you one.  ::MonkeyWink::

What was with her comment about her and Houze? It seems like she has a personal vendetta aginst Terri. I sure hope she doesn't do anything crazy.

She said in the video that this was her 2nd message to Terri. I didn't see another video focused on her though.

I think Terri better start having a bodyguard. It doesn't look good. LE needs to handle this, not some vigilante. I just don't want to see harm come to anyone. 

I think it's time to do a little "checky check", sassifrass style. You can never be too sure. It may be nothing, or it could be something.

I would feel more comfortable in just checking this out. It's just too personal. Hopefully I'll find or not find something by tomorrow or Friday the latest.

 ::MonkeyEek:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyEek::

I know Klaas it is disturbing. I don't think any one of us would throw a party for Terri but this video is over the top in my opinion. I watched a video on her site about hitch hiking (?) and a man is holding a sign that reads "portland". Did she go there? When and why? Remember that message on the fence addressed to "Daddy"? Was that from her? I know it was said it was some woman who was in a group but do we really KNOW that?

Strange, just strange.

Was she actually saying SHouze picked her up hitchiking?  It sure seemed like it and the way she refers to Steve(H).  We need to invite her over and ask her some questions.

 ::MonkeyJnBox::

She's intense, but she doesn't appear to be unintelligent.  May not be a bad idea except that it would require Klass's full attention.



Tracy Girl, I'm glad someone else feels that the story behind the Wall of Hope note may not be accurate. 

Amysister I have always believed there was more to that note. I found it strange it was directed only to Kaine and not to Desiree at all. No, I don't believe the story behind the note.

I am not sure if I would want to post with that woman from the video. I don't agree with how she is handling herself. Vigilantism is just something I don't support and quite frankly she freaks me out. However if she was invited to this site I would ask her to allow Justice to happen or at least wait until the police clearly state they believe Terri is responsible for Kyron going missing. I am sure Terri and her attorney has a RO against this person.

Ya that is how I took it, he picked her up while hitchhiking? Something about Klamouth falls. Then she said, think about it as if something happened during that ride? hmmm

I don't think Ruthie likes SM. After I posted the link to her video, she posted her comments on her blog.

http://ruthiessky.blogspot.com/ (http://ruthiessky.blogspot.com/)

Thursday, June 09, 2011
Even The Monkeys Are Scared...
Hells Bells! The monkeys are talking. My video, "A Straight Shot To The Point" is eliciting chatter in the Internet jungle trees.

Good.

Yeah, they are just going bananas over it. Apparently some of them watched the video and it just about made them toot their fruit.

They almost lost their Chiquita, Cheetah!

_______________


["Checky, checky", eh?

Yeah, kitty chimpanzee, you just go right ahead.

Knock yourself out. (It'll save me the trouble)]

_______________

A tropical fruit smoothie is dense and so are some people who have tried to do something worthwhile in the Kyron Horman missing child case. They type and type until their fingers tangle and it really doesn't make any difference.

The time is long past for Internet message boards. People, please...open your eyes and take a wide look around the present situation.

How many times are you going to revolve around in senseless circles before you get tired of the ride?

Do you know what I've read from some of you geniuses on the Internet, lately?

1.) Desiree killed Kyron and buried evidence in the back yard of her house. And that's why she and Tony (who is a corrupt cop) got the idea to plant flowers and put a fountain in place to hide proof of their dastardly deed.

2.) Desiree killed Kyron so that she and Kaine would eventually be drawn back together in a romantic liaison.

3.) Kaine killed Kyron and hid the boy's body up in Canada.

4.) Tony Young killed Kyron because he was tired of sharing Desiree's affection and then he dumped Kyron's body in the ocean.

Have you read enough?

I HAVE!

You people who create this crapola and smear it all over cyberspace disgust me. I mean, totally and completely.

When it comes to the whereabouts of Kyron Horman, you really don't know the facts from a fajita!

And when you've posted your thoughtless "theories", you've actually helped to protect those who are REALLY GUILTY. You dumb asses.

If you just want to monkey-around, go find Tarzan.

If you want to find Kyron, then start doing something that you haven't done yet:

Shut Up And Listen.
_________________

NOTE TO MY READERS:

This post is in response to a particular website on the Internet that includes an underwhelming amount of intelligence (literally and otherwise). I am sure that some of the primates from that pack will read this post. And I sincerely hope that they are surprised to realize that I am aware of their deluded discussion. That fact, alone, makes my point crystal clear...but only to those who recognize the reason behind the revelation. There, chew on THAT, monkeyshines, why don't ya!
_________________________________________

Ok, my response to Ruthie would be:

Since I've been here at SM, I have NEVER seen anyone here make a post that blamed either Kaine, Desiree, or Tony, for Kyrons disappearance. Yes we throw out theories, because of the lack of information we have, but they all relate back to Terri.

Ruthie, at least we are doing something to help bring Kyron home and are making sure that his disappearance doesn't go unnoticed, instead of sitting on our azzes and keeping silent. I agree that some forums out there do make some horrible innuendo's, but we are not one of those forums.

I applaud your courage and dedication to the missing children but to target SM and its members as "a bunch of asses", in your words, is not very productive. We're all on the same team;  Team Kyron.

Keep up the good work.

*yawn*

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: TG!

I was being diplomatic. I try and keep in mind a post that Klaas made on the rules forum. Sometimes I slip, but I really work hard at achieving that goal. For some reason, it always sticks with me.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8845.0 (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8845.0)


I'm glad I went back and read it again. It's a good reminder for me.  ::MonkeyCool::

Well all I can say is my "*yawn*" was better then the first response I posted, so I improved.

A more level headed Tracygirl would have told her to stop the vigilante crap. All it is going to do is get you thrown in jail for terrorist threats and then Terri would win again. Let justice work.

 

Great response Sass!   Very diplomatic and thoughtful.  I read Ruthie's blog, and I firmly believe her heart is in the right place, I hope she can see that ours is as well.  If not, then she won't be the first one to misunderstand our intentions and we shouldn't let it get us down.  Sure hope she's right that LE will move in sometime in July!  I sincerely wish her safe travels and good luck.

 ::rhino::

Hi all! 

I read here quite often, still following the case, altho I am no longer doing research for it.  Sometimes while researching, one finds things that may be big clues as to why the silence in a case... and why a case seemingly goes cold.  Frustrating that we cannot just post findings for the whole world to see. 

Often when a case goes cold, one good idea is to go back to the beginning and start all over again.  I do think many have done that in Kyron's case.  Usually LE tends to start where the child/adult who is missing was last seen.. and begin there.  Very often this means starting at the persons home, but in this case, Kyron was last seen at school. 

For those still doing research in this case, or wanting to do research but don't have a clue where to begin... may I suggest going back to the beginning.  The school.  Start at the top and work thru ALL the staff (from principal at the time all the way down to the mundane hireling) doing criminal checks, for those who can access those records online.  With just doing that alone, eye-opening info will be found that has not been made public .. yet.  For a variety of reasons, I suppose. 

For those who cannot do criminal checks online, might I suggest mulling over once again just why the silence from the school, in the very beginning especially. 

Would doing any of this solve the case and bring Kyron home where he belongs?  I dunno.  Maybe none of us can solve a case in our armchairs.  We may find info or stir discussion tho that just might spark local interest into a course of action that might break the silence in this case.   

All IMO only. 

Justice for Kyron!! 

Wykes!  :smt039 I miss you! Nice to see you my friend.

Yep....yawn!

IMO, this is a person who's full of themselves, enjoys messing with people's minds and is in heaven over being discussed on SM.  I'm done with this one.  Nothing there!

Wyks - good to see you on Kyron's thread.

Yes, the school is ground zero, where whatever happened...the beginnning.  There are questions about the school....Ms. Porter.
She said that she thought Kyron had a doctor's appointment, but yet she only received the documents to fill out for the doctor the day before (short timing).  She said that she thought Kyron had a doctor's appointment and Terri said, no, it was the next Friday.  I'm thinking that "if" Terri told the wrong date for the doctor's appointment, that would have made the news and we would have been talking about it still.  That didn't happen, so I am suspicious that Ms. Porter was "wrong" on the correct date of the doctor's appointment.

Geesh Puzzler. I put the video out there because it was current. I never stated that "there was something there".

moving on.....

Wykes: Wonderful to see you!  ::MonkeyKiss::

I agree with you Wykes, but that's where I get stuck; at the beginning, because the facts are minimal, such as, what doors were locked and which doors had open access. If I knew that, finding out HOW Kyron was taken out of the school, ie: walked out with someone or told to walk out a certain door, it would be a start. If you don't have factual information, you can speculate until you're blue in the face.

I've done so many criminal checks that it started to hurt my brain. I just don't think the person(s) that took Kyron away from the school, has a criminal background.  I could be wrong, I have been many times, but I think if they did have a criminal background, they would have been caught already and someone would be in jail.

There are so many complexities in this case along with the errors that were made in the beginning, of the gathering of information.

Geesh Sassi - I didn't say you did....I merely meant that there was nothing there wrt that person...I was talking about that woman....not about your post.  Okay?

Gotcha! Sorry about the confusion.  ::MonkeyWink::

So I was doing some research and found this college that studies virtual reality animations that relate to criminal investigations, and I was thinking that if I write to them with information, have it be part of their lab work, that maybe it will help if we had visual scenarios. The only thing is, I would need Monkey neighbors help because she is familiar with the school.

It may be a shot in the dark but wth else do we have.

Interesting Sass

No worries, mate!

Hi TG, Puzzler, and Sassi!!  Good to see you too!  Been reading along with y'all and will post from time to time to say hey.  ::dogwag:: 

Haven't changed my mind much from my earlier beliefs regarding Kyron's case.  And sad to see that the direction the 'powers that be' in this case have gone in, hasn't led to much in this past year.  I do wish that other avenues could have been followed up on by LE and etc, will always wonder if they had could they have had more success in solving this case.  Looks like whoever did whatever with Kyron, is gonna get away with it.  And that burns me up more than anything. 

Yes, there are many weird things at the school, Mrs Porter, the doc appt, who actually saw Kyron last and when, all of that and more *ought to* have been fully questioned and investigated by LE/FBI etc.  Maybe it was and they just haven't mentioned it?  But maybe they didn't pay much attention to those lil details. 

And I dunno that the one/s who worked at the school, at that time, who have criminal records, are involved with Kyron's having gone missing.  I do believe tho that 'the silence'  and seeming 'coverup' that came immediately from the powers that be at the school... was because they immediately went into CYA mode.  With the attention of the world on them, there are things they didn't want anyone, let alone the world, to know about.  Hence the silence.  Of that I've become quite convinced.  Kyron's having gone missing brought a spotlight that *could have* illuminated other nefarious goings on by some of the higher up staff members.  They couldn't allow info about one or more to go public or they'd lose their funding as well as likely end up losing their job, if not tossed in jail as well... and none of it having to do with Kyron's case.  Kinda sux when one or more are doing things the wrong way, and something else entirely threatens to bring all that out in the open.  So silence about Kyron's gone missing, at least a hurried do the least possible necessary in his case and get out of the spotlight is the ticket, I would say.  And that's what happened.  Others in the know (both at the school and living local) are very likely too scared to say anything, about anything they might know.  And another case goes cold, because of it.  IMO.     

(The silence is eerily similar to the Holly Bobo case.... thru the investigation into her having gone missing and the searches they did, LE discovered folks who were growing pot on their land.  Busted!  Had nothing to do with Holly's case, was discovered while searching for her.  And from what I understand, some who live local to that case are now reluctant to come forward as well.  The info some want to hide seems more important to keep hidden (so they'll stay outta trouble) than is important to them for the truth about Holly to come out.)   

IMO, this is just wrong!  Yet I do understand that kind of reluctance. 

So yeah... if an outside (wayyyyyyyyyy outside) LE agency could come into Kyron's school and begin a full and complete investigation, starting at ground zero...... how much info might they find, that had previously been shuffled aside, overlooked, covered up, just cuz some folks might not have wanted to get into trouble for things found out that is totally separate from Kyron's case?  How much of that might actually have, or might have had, some bearing on what happened with Kyron? 

Rumors of a 'supposed' corrupt local LE and state LE as well, in this and many other cases.  How much of this case has never been brought to light just because of local 'supposed' corruption, something the locals themselves try to bring out but aren't believed.  Case after case goes cold because of this type of 'supposed' corruption.  I wonder how many parents of the missing are feeling helpless in the face of this?  Folks shake their heads and move on to the next case.  But what if (God forbid!) this happened to one of us or someone we know and love?  This type of 'supposed' corruption goes on across the nation, in all states.  And it burns me up that it seems so hard, perhaps too hard, for us - regular folks - to fight against. 

So anyway... Yeah, we're back at ground zerio at the school.  All staff and grounds need full investigation.  Long ago, many of us were not happy with the reports by LE that they had searched that school from top to bottom.  Did they?  I don't think so!!!!!!!!!!  They were ready to move on from that search the very next day.  NOT enough time to fully search the inside of the school.  Kyron wasn't seen leaving the school and I think there's a very good reason for that.  He might not have actually left!  I think what they likely did was to run from room to room and yell for Kyron, not stopping long enough to check every nook and cranny, ceiling to floor, in every room.  IMO.  No need to move the search perimeter out 5 miles, when they didn't take the time to clear the school first.  And by the next day LE also allowed folks to park on the schoolgrounds itself and trample everywhere.  Why?   

At this point, I don't think anyone will ever find out what happened with Kyron.   ::MonkeyTears::

   

I recall asking the question many months ago..."who was it that stopped the panic? who didn't react when Kyron was first noticed to be gone?" Those 6 hours were necessary in my opinion.

Wykes you make some very interesting points. I don't know when or how but it is politically incorrect to lay any of the blame on the teacher or the school. That is strange to me, how did they get let off the hook?

I keep thinking that sooner or later someone will stumble across Kyron's remains and he'll finally go home to his parents.  Where is Kyron?

Interesting.  The main problem that I see is that there are virtually no facts released by LE.  Sure we know the topology of the school, but so far we have been led to believe that TannerP was the last person to see Ky.  LE has led us to believe that Kyron was last seen around 8:45 or 9:00.  What if that is not true?  What if we have been focusing on the wrong time frame?

@Wyks, you sound so sure that "eye-opening info will be found".  What makes you so sure?

Howdy Neighbor!  Can't speak for my dear Wyks but what she may mean is that whomever took Kyron more than likely works at the school, is on staff,  has a child in the school, is a para, a county worker who frequents, etc., I think you get my drift.  I believe too that if TH didn't drive off with him then that person(s) would not stand out there and  has semi-intimate knowledge of Skyline but def. has something to do with the school. Wyks can add to this or right my wrongs!! Ha Ha!

http://www.youtube.com/user/anglilpunk360

Beautiful and sad.

 ::MonkeyAngel::
Dear Neighbor,
 
    I'm wondering if you can offer any insight into TH's treatment of Kyron?  Did you have occasion to witness them together or know anyone who did? 
    How did she talk to Kyron when in public? 
Many thanks...

Kokos
 ::MonkeyAngel::

Me, too.  I hope he's found alive, but I doubt he will be.

Someone found bones in a Clackamas creek today.
http://clackamas.katu.com/news/news/bones-discovered-shallow-creek-bed/441179

Part of me hopes it's Kyron, and I feel awful for thinking that.

Thank you for bringing the article.  I guess we just have to wait and see. 

Sorry I can't.  I only remember seeing his family the day before.  I knew Kyron's face from crossing paths in the hallway. Wish I knew him better.  He seems like a good kid.

Earlier this evening I stumbled across the article posted here regarding the bones recently found.
I DO hope that Kyron is found hidden somewhere, alive, but...
if this will bring closure, if it is him, then I will be happy for those who love him.

Not knowing would be very stressful after this long period of time.

Where he is, God bless him, and his Mom too ! ::MonkeyAngel::

CLACKAMAS, Ore. - An investigation has been launched by the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office after bones were discovered in a shallow creek bed.

The bones were found around 11:30 a.m. Wednesday in the 13000 block of Southeast 124th Avenue in Clackamas. The remains - which have not yet been identified as human or animal - were in an area designated as a greenway in a mixed residential and commercial neighborhood.

The investigation is in its early stages. Members of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office Patrol Division, Detectives, Forensic Evidence Technicians and the Clackamas County Deputy Medical Examiner's Office responded to the scene.

The area where the bones were discovered was cleared of dense brush in the last year and there has been commercial construction work being done there. There are homes on one side of the creek and businesses on the other.

The bones were discovered by a woman playing with her dog in her parent's backyard. She said she looked over the edge of the creek and saw bones.

Forensic technicians collected several bags of evidence, including what looked like rotting
clothing.

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/BonesClackamas.jpg)

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-absentee-bill-to-become-law-123368058.html
Kyron Horman absentee bill to become law
June 7, 2011

SALEM – Oregon schools will soon be required to notify parents before the end of the school day when a child is absent.

House Bill 3197 has been approved by the House and Senate and just needs to governor’s signature to become law, which was expected.

A Medford-area lawmaker sponsored the bill after Kyron Horman disappeared.
 ::snipping2::
Many school districts already have automated attendance notification systems, including Portland Public Schools.

Kyron’s school, Skyline Elementary, was not using the system at the time of his disappearance. But all Portland schools are now required to use it.

(Interesting comments)

This appears to be the official news feed:
  http://flashalert.net/news.html?id=624 (http://flashalert.net/news.html?id=624)

Oregon Live is typically the first to announce that the remains are of an adult.  The silence is this case is deafening.

Part of me hopes for closure.  Part of me keeps on hoping.

Kyron, where are you????  ::MonkeyAngel::

I agree neighbor. It's not just deafening, it's down right ghostly how people are keeping their mouths shut. Why is that? I'm not just talking about LE either.

You see one person trying to soothe the search and investigation by stating it may take up to 4 years, and another person screaming out using bill boards, that they will never give up. Why is that?

Let's not forget about the people that are on the side lines and yet a part of this mess just by being a part of the Skyline community, or a part of the Horman associated crew. They are also silent. Why is that? Many of these people have children. How could they not speak up?

Then we have dead bodies near the search areas and there is no follow up. You contact MSM and they ignore you. Why is that?

We have death scents coming from the Horman property that are being ignored. Even if it turned out to be false, why not utilize every means possible, to prove to themselves, that it was a false alarm? It's free. They wouldn't have to pay a dime.

I'm sick of it! This little boy deserves more than that. He deserves the right to have adults stand up for him and take him home where he belongs.

That area is about 15 miles or so from portland according to google maps. Is it me or does the material being handled look like the pants Kyron was wearing? Oh gosh I am not sure if I should hope it is him or hope it is not. I feel sick right now though.

No ID yet, but a couple more details:

http://www.kptv.com/news/28253609/detail.html
Bones Found In Clackamas Creek Bed
POSTED: 10:19 pm PDT June 15, 2011
UPDATED: 8:27 am PDT June 16, 2011

 ::snipping2::
Investigators have not released many details about what exactly was found, but say the remains were in an advanced stage of decomposition. The medical examiner's office was called to the scene, along with detectives and forensic evidence technicians.
 ::snipping2::
The area of the discovery was cleared in the last year of dense brush for commercial construction.
 ::snipping2::

Still doesn't indicate if adult/child.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Authorities-respond-as-bones-found-in-shallow/e6RjI2k0c0mnJf6oRIuOIQ.cspx
Authorities respond as bones found in shallow Clackamas creek
June 15, 2011

 ::snipping2::
Deputies responded to the 13000 block of SE 124th Ave. about 11:30 a.m., and recovered the bones nestled in a creek designated as a greenway, said sheriff's spokesman Jim Strovink.

Strovink said the bones were in an advanced stage of decomposition and will require additional forensic examination to determine their origin.
 ::snipping2::

Hasn't Clackamas come up in this case? I think I have heard that name before.

link to a pic of the clothing Kyron was wearing. would someone mind posting the pic?

Look at the pants and what the officers are pulling out of the creek? Do you think they look a like?

Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 1390



Where are you Kyron?



   
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland, OR #41 1/18/11 -
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2011, 01:19:05 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on January 23, 2011, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: sassifrass on January 23, 2011, 09:41:34 AM
I think Jaime and Rudy are brothers. At least that was my understanding. They sure do look alike, don't they?

Yes they do and I wonder why Jaime moved in with Rudy in August 2010?  What changed?  Has anyone looked at Jaime's previous address in Clackamas for evidence of Kyron?  Clackamas is about 24 minutes SE of Portland.

This looks like it may be your answer, although if he went into foreclosure a few years ago, where did he live between 2009 and August of 2010? Maybe in with RS and changed the address when his renewal came due?

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/#comments

riverpearl says:
January 22, 2011 at 7:21 pm

Per the Clean Factor web site, Jaime Estrada “… has been cleaning carpets for over 5 years”.

Could he “be the money” to purchase house ?

JMHO

http://clean-factor.com/company/

No, as I believe he lost his own home to foreclosure a few years back, iirc.
B
Report to moderator     Logged

This is what I remember being posted about Clackamas. Sass what was the address you were talking about?

Also, there was a carwash fundraiser I think in Clackamas. This city has been mentioned several times in this case. Why is that given it is not right around the corner from Skyline El?

http://clackamas.katu.com/content/car-wash-fundraiser-planned-aid-kyron-search

There was a carwash fundraiser right near where these bones were found? WTH? Who throw the carwash? Anyone know? There is also an elementary school near to that area, sunnyside el. Ok my mind is spinning. Where is everyone?

Another event happened in Sept at the godfathers pizza in Clackamas.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/godfathers-pizza-clackamas

TG: I'm here, kind of. I have some things going on in RL, but I will answer you tomorrow.

Yes there are Clackamas ties.

I'll let you know my thoughts tomorrow. I have some thoughts but I have to get back to doing some personal things.

Believe me when I say, even if I have other obligations in my life, I continually think of Kyron and try and find what is missing in this case.

Clack Co. LE joined forces in helping with Mult co. LE and I didn't go back and look but IIRC they also have an officer or two still helping out with the task force.  I believe it was one of the counties mentioned still helping.  What we don't know is is this just LE being friendly across the board or is this investigation spilling over into Clack Co. due to some folks tied into it living there?  Maybe we will know one day.  I hate to say it but I'm gonna need to read a book about this case just to see how it was ran and how far and wide they went with this investigation.  I just have a hard time keeping up with this one.

Hi TG~

I'm hoping they're not Kyron's pants.  The amount of material seems to be more than I imagine for Kyron's clothes (I hope). 
Over at BOC there is discussion about the bones belonging possibly to an adult male?

-----snipped from BOC----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments

18.sma says:
June 16, 2011 at 8:39 pm
cd says:
June 16, 2011 at 7:05 pm

Beejay says:
June 16, 2011 at 1:20 pm

“…in the car on the radio they said they still aren’t sure what they have but “it could be a very large animal or an adult male””
—————

It could be a deer. a few years ago deer would sometimes cross Sunnyside right around that area. i think one even got hit by a car.

If you look at the news video you see what appears to be deteriorating clothing they were putting into the bags so unlikely moo that it is an animal.
----------------------end snip--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I am going to wait until information is released on the bones. I don't know what to think about it.

This article is a couple of weeks old, but I couldn't find where it's been posted here previously.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/05/kaine_horman_endures_year_sinc.html
Video
Kaine Horman endures year since his son Kyron Horman disappeared
May 28, 2011

The address where the bones were found is 13243 SE 124th Ave, Clackamas, OR 97015. This is on the corner of SE 124th and SE Sunnyside rd.


WS had a link to a comment made on OL about a poem that was written by a poster there.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6695904 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6695904)

The direct link to the OL poster comment is here.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/anna_griffin/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_horman_has_gone_from_tra/4897/comments-2.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/anna_griffin/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_horman_has_gone_from_tra/4897/comments-2.html)

This was originally posted by "The Eskimo (Rich)", and followed up by a poster named "Open Letter" .


To: The Eskimo (Rich) you posted on July 16, 2010 at 7:58 a.m. on OregonLive the following...

"The sunny side, where you should be, not in the woods or near a tree. A childs blessing a mans remorse, one cops woman so stay the course. Intent was there, luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave. Not the K or T we know but others hands in the fire, so, look elsewhere, you will find a clue, idea and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone, our lives will go on but one will not, we shed a tear for little him, but not for them."

This is for erose and MBS over at BOC. Not sure which image of Terri you wanted to use. If you give me a link I'll post the one you want.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments)

erose says:
June 17, 2011 at 2:07 am

Wow, your post blows me away. DAD’s brother referenced Willie and Laurie/Lori in an interview, and we spent some time on finding out who they are, and it seems someone found a newspaper article that implied DAD’s mother and stepfather(?) adopted them. It would not be hard to believe that she adopted DAD.

The Monkey’s came up with Kisiel as TH’s birth mother’s name. This was done by process of elimination. DAD is 44, TH is 41. Who knows.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8168.10;wap2

IF ANY MONKEY’S ARE READING, could you please try what T.Ruth did or post side by side photos of DAD and TH so we can see the resemblance?

T. Ruth says:
June 16, 2011 at 3:25 pm

Since we’re still under the David Durham thread, can anyone tell me if anyone has found a birth certificate for him? I just can’t get over how much he and Terri look alike, like brother and sister and he looks nothing like his brother that we’ve seen on the news. Could he be adopted as well? There is a blog somewhere that alleges DAD was a cancer victim and needed treatment he could not afford. Is it possible he was adopted and went looking for his bio family to get financial assistance? Found Terri, tried to squeeze her, instead held something over her head and kidnapped Kyron? IDK, but their resemblance just blows me away. I saved both their pictures and if you slide one over the other, the eyes line up, the ears line up, the mouth and nose, DAD’s chin is slightly longer. Just blows me away.
_________________________________________________

(http://imgsrv.kxl.com/image/kxl/UserFiles/Image/Terri%20Moulton-Horman.jpg)(http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/january242011/durham.350.jpg)(http://s2.hubimg.com/u/3518481_f248.jpg)

TG: the address is 7169 SE Renada St., Milwaukie, OR 97267. It is 11 minutes from the bones house.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?rtp=adr.13243%20SE%20124th%20Ave%2C%20Clackamas%2C%20OR%2C%2097015~pos.45.413971_-122.589737_7169+SE+Renada+St,+Milwaukie,+OR+97267-3342&where1=7169+SE+Renada+St,+Milwaukie,+OR+97267-3342 (http://www.bing.com/maps/?rtp=adr.13243%20SE%20124th%20Ave%2C%20Clackamas%2C%20OR%2C%2097015~pos.45.413971_-122.589737_7169+SE+Renada+St,+Milwaukie,+OR+97267-3342&where1=7169+SE+Renada+St,+Milwaukie,+OR+97267-3342)

self edit. sorry.

Sassi - TY for the post of the pictures of Terri and DAD

Uncanny - how much they look alike, isn't it?

I have more questions than answers.

Regarding the Skyline community .. realizing that this is not just a family affair is scary for those that trust their kids to school everyday.  Several people who have been following this case, don't think MCSO is equipped to handle this case. 

Once discussions about PPS policies started, the giant flexed its muscle. PPS hinted that they can switch the high school as easy as 1-2-3.  PPS has hinted it considers to straight-out close Skyline school if attendance drops significantly.  In their last move PPS showed that can replace the highly praised principal at will.

That is poem (BBM) is creepy in relation to the location of the bones.

The bones were found near
  13243 SE 124th Ave, Clackamas
That place is close to a strip mall and garage boxes.
http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=624

Rudy lived 3.7 mi from there at
  9850 SE Amherst St, Clackamas

The car wash fundraiser was 0.3 miles away at
  12002 SE Sunnyside Rd, Clackamas
http://clackamas.katu.com/content/car-wash-fundraiser-planned-aid-kyron-search

If these were animal bones, I guess that CCSO would have figured that out by now.  What animal wears cloths anyway.

BBM

In one word, "UNBELIEVABLE". That is disgraceful. I think new board members need to be re-elected. Kyron going missing, happened on their watch and what do they do? They start throwing their "strong arm tactics" around. Allowing full blown alcoholics to work with the children. What BS!  :2brickwall:

I do not envy you, living in that school district.

As far as MCSO not being able to handle this case, I think they have already proven that. They have done a suck azz job so far, because Kyron isn't home.

Per T.Ruth, this is the pic she compared to DAD. FYI, I enlarged it a bit to get a better look. For you T. Ruth.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments (http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments)

T. Ruth says:
June 17, 2011 at 12:22 pm

@erose

FYI, this is the picture I used when comparing DAD’s pic above with Terri as she’s pretty much looking straight on as he is, if anyone would like to try it. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/terri-horman-sexting-since-kyron-s-disappearance (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/terri-horman-sexting-since-kyron-s-disappearance)


(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad12/sass2heart/Terri.jpg)(http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/january242011/durham.350.jpg)

Crazy link but .. "Cops woman", reminded me of an ex-LEO or the beauty salon owner Debbie Higbee Benton that was murdered in Clackamas.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=130715624941113100

BBM

I know, I know! Mickey Mouse!  ::MonkeyDevil:: Tired of the Barney Fife's.

(http://www.dispics.com/images/mickeymouse.jpg)

Could "one cops woman" be Desiree?  That poem is creepy.

Yep, that's who it is.

I want to break down this poem and try and weigh the meanings. I don't have time right now, but I'll work on it later. I think it's worth looking at.

Unless a cartoon character came to life, no animal wears clothing.

That poem in my opinion is more then just something written by just a random person, I think there are clues there. Do police believe the bones have been in that area or have been placed there? To me the first line sounds as if someone was saying he should be one place and not the other as if the person moved them. "A child's blessing, a mans remorse" Is this referring to Kiara and Kaine? I think obviously the next line is Desiree? The rest sort of confuses me...Anyone have any idea?

I can't find the creek on google maps, is it small? Who would know it was there? Where does it flow from?

I'm going to look at that TG. Unfortunately, I have things to take care of right now. I agree with your first analysis. BBL

It went poof from the OL site.  The poster "The Eskimo (Rich)" claims to live in the Gresham ZIP code according to
  http://connect-uat.nola.com/user/Athabascan/index.html (http://connect-uat.nola.com/user/Athabascan/index.html)
  http://connect.ohiohssports.com/user/Athabascan/index.html (http://connect.ohiohssports.com/user/Athabascan/index.html)

Bob Rich sent another poem
  http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=139158702788229 (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=139158702788229)

Bob Rich doesn't care for Kaine and Desiree very much or he didn't when he wrote the posts. That maybe important when trying to figure out the poem
http://connect-uat.nola.com/user/Athabascan/index.html

I don't know if The Eskimo and Bob Rich are the same person.  The latter seems to dedicate his time writing poems for i.e. peace4missing.ning.com.  The former seems to concentrate on bashing Kaine and leaving breadcrumbs.

OL just posted an article on a MCSO cold case where DNA evidence was analyzed by the fed. crime lab.  It is unclear if this is intended as a background article.  Interesting timing to say the least.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/post_96.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/post_96.html)

That poem has been posted by both people so I would think it is the same person, just a guess though.

Just an observation, looking from a different angle, also trying to be thorough... If Tanner's recollection of Kyron leaving to go downstairs to see a "cool electric project" is correct, and considering that it was a Science Fair day in a school that gets help from outside Sci sponsors, I wonder if any of the below companies had representatives at the school on June 4, 2010. (Note the small print paragraph. I wonder if such a "kiosk" was set up & available during last year's Science Fair.)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/03/northwest_portland_skyline_sch.html?mobRedir=false

Snipped
Northwest Portland: Skyline School installs wind turbine
Published: Monday, March 28, 2011, 12:00 PM
By Molly Hottle, The Oregonian

On Monday, Skyline School in Northwest Portland will be the first school in Portland Public Schools to install a wind turbine, which will be used to power about 3 percent of the school's energy. 
Students will watch workers install the 90-foot-tall tower at 1 p.m., at the school, 11536 NW Skyline Blvd. The turbine is expected to be operating at 2:45 p.m. You can view the installation progress on the Solar 4R Schools website.

Inside the school, an interactive kiosk will show how the turbine is working and what it is doing.
Supporting the project are Bonneville Environmental Foundation's Solar4R Schools Program, Xzeres Wind of Wilsonville, Andersen Electric, Northwest Environmental Defense Council, the Energy Trust of Oregon and Oregon Department of Energy's Business Energy Tax Credit.

Sorry, it didn't show up as small print. My last comment was referring to the last paragraph. I wonder if these company's employees have been checked out...if any of them were at the Sci Fair.

You can see the creek here:

http://portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Natural&propertyid=C205574&state_id=22E02BC02600&address_id=768471&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7679309.627&y=648260.319&place=13263%20SE%20124TH%20AVE&city=CLACKAMAS%20COUNTY&neighborhood=&seg_id=304529 (http://portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Natural&propertyid=C205574&state_id=22E02BC02600&address_id=768471&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7679309.627&y=648260.319&place=13263%20SE%20124TH%20AVE&city=CLACKAMAS%20COUNTY&neighborhood=&seg_id=304529)

It looks pretty flat, so probably a modest creek.  Combining above map with Gmaps topo elevation map, gives me the idea that it starts a bit East, and flows West towards the Willamette.

http://portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Elevation&propertyid=C205574&state_id=22E02BC02600&address_id=768471&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7679309.627&y=648260.319&place=13263%20SE%20124TH%20AVE&city=CLACKAMAS%20COUNTY&neighborhood=&seg_id=304529 (http://portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Elevation&propertyid=C205574&state_id=22E02BC02600&address_id=768471&intersection_id=&dynamic_point=0&x=7679309.627&y=648260.319&place=13263%20SE%20124TH%20AVE&city=CLACKAMAS%20COUNTY&neighborhood=&seg_id=304529)

FYI my post on BOC:

That poem was written by someone who is trying to clear their conscience !
Anyone know how seriously LE took this ?
I would be curious to hear FBI interpretation
of this poem. It is quite chilling. ::MonkeyNoNo::

Thanks, Neighbor!   ::MonkeyKiss::

*** Sorry *** my last post was OT!
I'm waaay behind in my reading....

Thanks for posting the poems/info, etc.  from "Eskimo".   Does anyone know the date/time that the creepy poem was written?

Thanks!

http://connect-uat.nola.com/user/Athabascan/index.html (http://connect-uat.nola.com/user/Athabascan/index.html)

To try and decipher this, I split up the wording where this person placed commas in their poem. I made comments after each sentence of what I thought may be the possible meaning.

Poems, are used as messages and expressions of pain, happiness, life's experiences, and our own personal knowledge. Killers, also use poetry to give clues to LE.

Please feel free to add your own interpretations.


_____________________________________________________

The poem by The Eskimo:

"The sunny side, where you should be, not in the woods or near a tree. A childs blessing a mans remorse, one cops woman so stay the course. Intent was there, luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave. Not the K or T we know but others hands in the fire, so, look elsewhere, you will find a clue, idea and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone, our lives will go on but one will not, we shed a tear for little him, but not for them."

______________________________________________________

The sunny side, where you should be: Although it may be a coincedense, that the SE 124th address intersects with Sunnyside rd., my first impression was the "sunny side" as opposed to the "dark side". By this I mean, Kyron was forced into the "dark side" of life by someone else.

not in the woods or near a tree: This tells me that, possibly, Kyron is not in those forested search areas.

A childs blessing a mans remorse: A feeling of guilt?

one cops woman so stay the course: I believe this refers to Desiree's determination to find her son.

Intent was there: This was intentional. The plan was set in motion.

luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed: This one, I think, is the most powerful. It tells me that the plan did not go down as it was suppose to. Someone took matters in their own hands.

a course, a path, watery grave: Kyrons destiny.

Not the K or T we know but others hands in the fire: Another interesting line. This to me is saying that Kaine and Terri are not to blame, but possibly someone(s) associated with them. Someone(s) who knows both of them. Perhaps an activity they shared with Kaine and Terri. The word "fire" to me, describes an event that is questionable.

so, look elsewhere, you will find a clue: This says to me, basing it on the above line, that Kaine and Terri probably trusted this person, and may still trust them.

idea and then the end that we all knew, would come: It started off as an idea, a plan, but the intention was not to harm Kyron. They made an error.

sad and happy to see it gone: Happy that they are rid of the problem, but feeling sad that it ended this way.

our lives will go on but one will not: Kyron's demise.

we shed a tear for little him, but not for them: Feeling pain for Kyron and extreme anger towards the person(s) who did this to him.

Neighbor: Don't you think their writing styles seem different? The OL one seems more cryptic and the one MKH is more descriptive.

I've been engrossed in the Caylee Anthony trial, but still trying to touch base in on Kyron's thread.

I wonder if someone would be kind enough to explain why we would give so much thought to this poem?  TIA

The "Sunny Side" is either coincidental or very intentional.  It is very easy to trace down the sender for a site like OL.  They have done it before when TMH was posting there.  It will reveal the sender's location and computer setup or possibly point to a Tor.  The latter will be interesting in its own way.

Hi Puzzler,

What got my attention was the reference to "Sunny side".  Sunnyside Road is very near to where the bones were found in Clackamas. 

Hi Neighbor,

What is a TOR?  Thanks!   (BBM)

:)

Dear Neighbor,

Thanks for posting the url for the news release & where the bones were found.  I hope it's ok that I'm printing it in full, below.  Looks like it's not Kyron...


http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=624 (http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=624)

Dear Sassi,

Thanks for your analysis on the poem... it is very interesting in Kyron's case (regardless of the identity of the poor victim in Clackamas).

I'd like to compare the writing styles as you suggest, but only seem to be able to access the writing by "Eskimo".

Could someone please provide links for both "Bob Rich" and "Eskimo"?

Many thanks for your perseverance in Kyron's case!

 ::MonkeyKiss::


 

The poem by The Eskimo:

"The sunny side, where you should be, not in the woods or near a tree. A childs blessing a mans remorse, one cops woman so stay the course. Intent was there, luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave. Not the K or T we know but others hands in the fire, so, look elsewhere, you will find a clue, idea and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone, our lives will go on but one will not, we shed a tear for little him, but not for them."

To me the part "and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone" refers to all of us hoping for a live Kyron, yet wanting closure, so we would be happy to find him, but sad at the outcome.

It's good to know a family has closure on a missing teen.  Very sad, though.

The poem is extremely cryptic and creepy. 

The "Sunnyside" in the sun? As the saying, "this side of the dirt" meaning not buried?

Sass there is talk about kaine in a red dress, did you or did any other posters see this pic? I have only heard of it but didn't see it myself.  

Anonymous network access.  I will not post the link, but Google shows it as the first hit.

I cannot tell you how relieved I am that those bones were not Kyron's.  My hopes of Kyron being found alive were dwindling, and I want closure as much as anyone else, but I still did not want it to be him.  I just can't imagine how Desiree feels.   

I don't think we should discount or ignore that poem. Thank God the sweet little girl was finally brought home, but I don't want to discount it.

The poem is not only creepy, but to ignore it, would be an injustice. It's not going to hurt if we just look at it and examine the writing. For Kyron.

I don't think it is a bad thing to look into the poem.

I am relieved to know the bones were not Kyron but I am so very sorry it was the girl. I bet her parents have been holding out hope she was alive somewhere. What a sad, sad ending.  At least though, they have their daughter back and can bury her with the respect she so deserved. My prayers are with them.

Yes, it is very sad for that young girl and her family.  What a long time to wait to know what happened to her.  My heart goes out to them.

Hmmm.... I seam to recall something about this, TG.  Can't find anything, though.  Anyone?
Thanks,

 ::MonkeyAngel::

While searching in vain for a red dress, I did, however come across an interesting blog...

http://lovingkyronwebs.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html (http://lovingkyronwebs.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html)

 ::MonkeyShovel::

Thnx for sharing the blog u found. I found it is interesting & upsetting as well.

1. I would like to officially ask a licensed private investigator to come on board for Kyron's Justice- I would like this investigation to delve into the life style of Kaine and Terri Horman- delve into the sexual abuse that has possibly affected Kyron's family life in the way of Kaine Horman's direct relatives being arrested for such crimes-

The above statement in the blog really upset me. Have they molested Kyron ?

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=kyron

Prayers for Kyron.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/06/lawmakers_give_final_approval.html

Oregon lawmakers give final approval to bill requiring earlier notice of student absenteeism
Published: Monday, June 06, 2011, 12:24 PM     Updated: Monday, June 06, 2011, 5:26 PM
_________________________________________________________________
older article but I don't recall seeing it posted in all the HK, Ruthieinthesky, Harryoakes, Eskimo, 13yr girls bones found, etc, stuff.

 

I posted a similar article in this thread where they were waiting for the governor's signature for finalizing on 6/16, but it's great to see it's gotten final approval and I appreciate your posting the article fatcatlurker. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9426.msg1395302#msg1395302

Question;  My understanding with the current investigation into Kyron Horman missing is that the "task force" will be disbanded as of July 1, 2011.  There will be one agent assigned to case and he/she will be weeding thru cell phone transmissions from 11 towers in the area dated June 4, 2010 within a 6 hour time period on said date.  Also looking at hard drives seized with search warrants. (thought the latter would of already been done btw?!)

Is that an accurate assumption of where we stand?
Looking at the batphone prior to Kyron missing theory?
tyia for any answers/thoughts.
______________________________________________________
assumption based on;

snipped;
There are still "millions of data points" that need to be examined. Those points come from all the cell phone calls picked up by 11 towers within a certain radius of Skyline School -- what investigators call "ground zero" -- during the six-hour span on June 4, 2010, when Kyron's disappearance went unreported.

The sheriff said the inquiry will now "transition toward a more technical focus," starting July 1, such as examining all the cell-phone tower data and computer hard drives seized from search warrants.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/kyron_horman_task_force_to_dis.html

Klaas...if you are around could you please let the nice Monkey's know about the pic of a guy in a red dress that was on a Kyron photo site.  IIRC the pic was just a random fetish photo that some say looked like Kaine but allowed pics to be uploaded by anyone who came upon the site.  It was not an official Kyron page.  I'm def not saying that KH or TH aren't into alt lifestyles at all, just that this photo could be faked by anyone.



                                                                        Klaaaassssssss, help please ma'am!

I know, I am still stuck on Terri and I truly appreciate that no here gets upset with me on that issue.  I can't help it, I have a gut feeling that she did this and have from day 1.  Yes even w/60 POI's sorry to say I cannot let it go and probably will not until he is found and charges are brought. 

Anyway thank you Monkeys for tolerating my little rants on her and more so for keeping Kyron's voice out there.

PS-Good site for keeping up on all things Kyron on one page.
http://bringkyronhome.org/

Love to hear all opinions no matter whose side!  Have a great day FCL!

(Bolded by me)

Yes, FCL, I agree with you about Terri.  BTW,no one should be "upset" with me or with you for having our opinions and I respect those whose opinions are different than yours or mine.  I have posted a number of years along side others and we've had differences in opinions.  Sometimes I've been correct, sometimes they've been correct and sometimes we've all been surprised at the outcome.  Sadly and all too often we may never know what happened.   I hope the time will come soon when Kyron can be brought home.  JMHO 

TU melisb.  The cross dressing rumor about Kaine has been around a long time, just fyi.

Here is a link if it goes thru from way back in July 2010 regarding it;

http://forums.radionewz.net/index.php?topic=137.360
____________________________________
I looked for red dress pic. no luck yet.

Here; if the red dress pic. is one and the same(?)follow link for Justice Quest site post #702 and follow thru to how they debunked it.  The picture is there but you cannot see it unless you are a member and I am not willing to go to Madame Nicole's site to proof what they claim to have proved....I might get a virus...ha ha ha!

I think this is what you guys are talking about?  Hope it helps regarding "red dress".

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?p=415818

I'd have to look way back but the website was from either Denmark or Sweden I believe.  There was absolutely nothing other than a slight resemblance to Kaine and no reason at all to even remotely believe it was him.  The photo wasn't FAKE it just wasn't Kaine nor was it even in the USA.

I recall the mention of the pic in question.
What I am curious to know is who it is that originally leaked that pic/alleged info and who debunked it and how?

For FYI purposes only: http://www.intel.com/intel/location/denmark.htm

They apparently have many offices in many different countries.

That's not to say that the pic is or isn't him.
The leaked pic/alleged info is rather curious.

one other question;  does Kaine's mothers head appear to be shaved also in this video to you monkeys? 

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kyron-Horman-anniversary-draws-hundreds-to-Portland-school-123173153.html

all I can input is that on Justice quest they traced the IP addy and it was reported that the photo was on a Madame Nicole's site which is in Germany.  They also compared the red dress photo to other photos on her site and the background matched others of her "photo studio" on site in Germany.  So the assumption is that unless Kaine was in Germany at the time the photo was taken it is not him.  All just my own assumption of course...lol. 

IMO to the BBM part - Kaine has many haters around him.  Could be jealousy, he provokes it, the man is always guilty stigma, who knows but Kaine haters all the same have been there since day one imo.

And last Rumors could be true; who knows.  I think Kaine is doing right by simply ignoring/not addressing them.  I forget what the Van Dams did when their baggage came out but it seems to be par for the course lately in missing cases.  All JMO.

It maybe looks like she has thin hair pulled back, possibly in a ponytail?

I read this to possibly be from someone who "intends" to be perceived as cold (the "Eskimo"). I would hesitate to believe much of what was written and in fact might even be so inclined to perceive the opposite?
IMO The "sunnyside" is the opposite of what would be perceived as "cold".
The words towards K and T seem blamingly cold.
"Others hands in the fire" we all know that a fire would be "hot" not "cold".
Not in the woods or near a tree...Firewood? Somewhere where firewood would be necessary in order to keep warm?
Just thinking out loud here.

" and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone, our lives will go on but one will not, we shed a tear for little him, but not for them."

The use of the word "our" seems indicative of more than one like mind?
"Our lives will go on."
"but one will not"  This seems conditional present tense.
"but one will not" lacks specific information which allows room for speculation. (Intentionally?)

" and then the end that we all knew, would come, sad and happy to see it gone,"

"the end" meaning that Kyron will be found.

"sad and happy to see it gone,"
"it" meaning the "end"?
the "end" meaning in regards to keeping Kyron from K and T?
"sad" that Kyron will be taken from them and yet happy that K and T have been exposed?

"we shed a tear for little him, but not for them."
The writer ("the Eskimo") believes that K and T are at fault and due to being exposed (their lifestyle etc...?) believes that no one will feel sad for them (them being K and T)?

"we shed a tear for little him", again lacks detail and leaves room for speculation.

A childs blessing a mans remorse, one cops woman so stay the course.

It seems interesting that the way this was written "a childs" blessing does not own "a mans remorse" neither does that man own the remorse?

Otherwise, it would be written as "a child's blessing" and "a man's remorse".

And, for that matter, the cop doesn't own the woman either...

 "Intent was there, luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave."

If one were to believe that intent was there but that luck prevailed, one would have to think that something perceivably ominous were about to happen but that luck prevailed over whatever ominous thing were about to happen?

 "Intent was there, luck prevailed humanity blushed and evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave."

Evil sailed, a course, a path, watery grave possibly meaning that K and T would be drowning in the embarrassment of being exposed?

Klaas you have seen pics of the Red Dress Run from the Chelsea King/Amber Dubois cases, was that similar in content? FYI,That is all I am wondering. Not that Kaine is a cross dresser. 

Yesterday, I drove through the last search grid and noticed that the vast majority of the properties East of Skyline are owned by Longview Timberlands.  The land is either forested, being clear cut or replanted.  Heavy equipment is left overnight.  Given that most of these lands are open to the public, it extends the search grid from immense to near impossible.

http://www.summitpost.org/bald-mountain/617579 (http://www.summitpost.org/bald-mountain/617579) (a similar sign)

True Nelson posted his theory:

The 1st part can be found at:
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2011/06/kyron-horman-theory-part-1.html (http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2011/06/kyron-horman-theory-part-1.html)

WPG says:
June 20, 2011 at 9:03 pm


Sorry for cross posting, but I felt that I should reply and BOC doesn't take my posts (tried different browsers & machines).

No bother. 
I informed LE a couple of months ago.  To be honest, it feels like talking to the trees.

Nothing new that we haven't heard already.

BBM

That's pretty frightening considering that they are the lead investigators.

Do you know how long they have been clear cutting that area; specifically the search area?

Since we were talking about cryptic messages, I wanted to share an email I received on May 9th. Keep in mind that I only use this email at SM.

The subject line in the email was this: kyron horman, 7 years old, portland, or #41 1/18/11 - 2/07/11

NOTE: The first thing I noticed was that this was typed in because they used lower case letters. SM uses upper case letters. Also, at that time we were clear in thread # 42 on SM.

In the body of the text, this was the message:

Hi. Do you offer tree removal?  And or transplanting another tree to a different location?  It's not large.

Thanks

_______________________________________

FYI, Klaas and Blink have already been told about this email. It's been bugging the heck out of me. Any ideas fellow monkeys?

Sassi it seems as if someone was trying to figure out who you are. Possibly someone who reads here? The topic of discussion in thread 41 includes you taking pics at a specific location.

Yeah, I assumed that right away. They can't find that out because of my smart tech hubby and my brother, who actually teaches internet safety and is an MIT graduate. I have more isp locations then the lights on a Christmas tree. So I'm not worried about anyone tracking me down.  ::MonkeyTongue::

I'm more concerned about the body of the text. The message.

By July 1st, we're going to be down to ONE detective on this case. What a damn friggin shame. So as of right now, anything goes. Put everything out there no matter how trivial it may seem. You never know. Something could grow from it.

As odd as the email seems, I'm curious, did you respond back?
 ::MonkeyEek::

Too, I wonder if they were wanting a live tree to be transplanted elsewhere or?

Plus,
How did they get your email addy? I'm not seeing a link. (I admit I have bad eye sight in advance.)

PML: I believe the message is cryptic.

It's in my signature line, purposely.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: LOL!  Whew! I'm not that blind after all. I didn't look there!

I agree. It does seem cryptic.