Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6 - 7/11

[Rob]

Rob - I tried lightening up the one photo and I really can't tell.  The body style and hair are similar and it could be the same guy.

Klaas, I could line the pics up better. But for me the jawline and nose are a match. And right where the tattoos are on the left neck area - you can kind of see them in the new pic, but they are semi blocked by hair and lighting - jmo-

Carpe - you say the funniest stuff!!! that alone is reason enough for me to keep my big mouth shut when the bannings occur. I wouldn't want to ever miss all the good things you do or say!!! see I'm getting smarter as I get older...shoes and belt 

YOU are the MAN!!!

[texasmom]

It's all about this pretty little girl, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing else gets in the way!

I've got my laser pointer on her.

"We're on a mission from God." -Blues Brothers

Right again, Carpe! (and thanks for another precious picture of Natalee too!)

[mrskub]

Are they transporting this guy in the trunk of the car?

[Helen Back]

look at how he is dressed. Carpe would you wear that belt?

....

Only if I had the right shoes, Rob. Only with the right shoes!

 

[carpe noctem]

Hey Rob, San...

Remember in the Wizard of Oz when Toto exposed

the GREAT OZ for being the sniveling little weak pantywaist he was?

That is a good script for how Aruba is gonna go down, as well.

Except it is going to be one of these >   

[carpe noctem]

You're welcome texasmom. Cool gif! 

[San]

Hey Rob, San...

Remember in the Wizard of Oz when Toto exposed

the GREAT OZ for being the sniveling little weak pantywaist he was?

That is a good script for how Aruba is gonna go down, as well.

Except it is going to be one of these >   

I agree Carpe.

[Bearlyhere]

Hey Rob, San...

Remember in the Wizard of Oz when Toto exposed

the GREAT OZ for being the sniveling little weak pantywaist he was?

That is a good script for how Aruba is gonna go down, as well.

Except it is going to be one of these >   

 
 You took the words right out of my mouse, Carpe.  Well not those exact words, but those words  minus Carpespeak.
 

[WhiskeyGirl]

From the last thread, a small post of interest regarding the sandals, cement, and a body.

******* wrote - "Yes,plenty of places including the cemetaries..It would be all too easy to put her in a hole and pour concrete on top of her."

I've never thougt that the cement at the VDS place could have been a diversion.  IIRC, there was construction going on, and perhaps cement being poured elsewhere.  Are there places a cement truck would have been out of place?  Places where a cement truck (or pouring by some other means) would not have been out of place at the time?  jmho

Also the backhoe, are there any reports of a backhoe being at the VDS property?  I think that is a good sized piece of equipment to get on the property and I'm thinking that someone would have seen or heard something.  There would be places that a backhoe would not be out of the ordinary.  imho

[caesu]

interview with Jörg from june 2007.

http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=83&num=31674

public prosecutors on Aruba are:

Hans Mos, Frans van Deutekom, Dop Kruimel, Casper van der Schaft and Elivia Lugo.
Lugo is the only Aruba prosecutor.

i am going through the archives from 2005 until now to find anything about Deutekom.

article goes further about the political involvement in the OM.
Jörg send a report of alleged corruption of Rudy Croes to Curaçao.

[caesu]

interview with Jörg from june 2007.

http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=83&num=31674

public prosecutors on Aruba are:

Hans Mos, Frans van Deutekom, Dop Kruimel, Casper van der Schaft and Elivia Lugo.
Lugo is the only Aruba prosecutor.

i am going through the archives from 2005 until now to find anything about Deutekom.

article goes further about the political involvement in the OM.
Jörg send a report of alleged corruption of Rudy Croes to Curaçao.

if that link doesn't work this one might work:
http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=83&num=31674&printer=1

(simple trick to get the  subscription articles shown is to change the URL a little as were it an article for the printer)

[caesu]

we know that Deutekom is also the prosecutor in the Domino-case?

http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=94&num=42126&printer=1

here Ricardo Yarzagaray, attorney for Ochoa says it isn't a fair trail.
among other things because he got the case files to late.

Deutekom responds by that the case was so big that the attorney's couldn't get the files within three or four months after the charges. and the attorneys got al the most important files.

[klaasend]

interview with Jörg from june 2007.

http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=83&num=31674

public prosecutors on Aruba are:

Hans Mos, Frans van Deutekom, Dop Kruimel, Casper van der Schaft and Elivia Lugo.
Lugo is the only Aruba prosecutor.

i am going through the archives from 2005 until now to find anything about Deutekom.

article goes further about the political involvement in the OM.
Jörg send a report of alleged corruption of Rudy Croes to Curaçao.

if that link doesn't work this one might work:
http://www.amigoe.com/cgi-bin/artikel/exec/view.cgi?archive=83&num=31674&printer=1

(simple trick to get the  subscription articles shown is to change the URL a little as were it an article for the printer)

Nice trick!  Thanks!

[CapsLockWizard]

not that this is important, but in my opinion the guy that allegedly committed last nites robbery at the fashion boutique is the same exact person.


robbery suspect on left - marijuana gang member from Lorenzo bust on right

business robbed / attacked.


look at how he is dressed. Carpe would you wear that belt?


This guy should try out for the Aruba Model of the Year. He looks like he has the look!

Raunchy should make a call and rehabilitate this guy. 

The picture on the left is from choller JoJO,

His Real Name is Josef Antersijn and his date of birth is 10/21/1957   in Aruba and living in Seroe Patrishi 4, he has a timeshare in KIA where is rotate every 4 months. in his 20th he use to be a baseball pitcher for a team call the Marlboro. Then he went to holland to study and there he was introduced to the Drug world and since then his live has turn into a person that live day by day of stealing.

When he is in KIA he will get well but when released he is back to his old habit (Stealing). Last time I spoke to him, he was going to be going into a program to get well.

He explaned to me that when there is notting to eat on the street, he will just get arrested so he can get to eat and then he will go and sit in KIA for 3 months till the case come in court. All the Chollers know this method of free loading and they are winning the battle since the Human Rights Law in KIA are applied and so they will get well in 3 month and after that back onto the street. Revolving KIA Choller Door.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Ever seen this Font klaas ? stars & stripes
 

HAHAHA!
That would be great at Halloweenie time,what's the name of the font Johan?

[KarmaRoundUp]

From the last thread, a small post of interest regarding the sandals, cement, and a body.

******* wrote - "Yes,plenty of places including the cemetaries..It would be all too easy to put her in a hole and pour concrete on top of her."

I've never thougt that the cement at the VDS place could have been a diversion.  IIRC, there was construction going on, and perhaps cement being poured elsewhere.  Are there places a cement truck would have been out of place?  Places where a cement truck (or pouring by some other means) would not have been out of place at the time?  jmho

Also the backhoe, are there any reports of a backhoe being at the VDS property?  I think that is a good sized piece of equipment to get on the property and I'm thinking that someone would have seen or heard something.  There would be places that a backhoe would not be out of the ordinary.  imho

Yup,all kinds of contruction going on in aruba in summer of 2005...namely the ISA where joran attended,anita works and joran was said to have stayed a night or 2 there that week.

[texasmom]

not that this is important, but in my opinion the guy that allegedly committed last nites robbery at the fashion boutique is the same exact person.


robbery suspect on left - marijuana gang member from Lorenzo bust on right

The picture on the left is from choller JoJO,

His Real Name is Josef Antersijn and his date of birth is 10/21/1957   in Aruba and living in Seroe Patrishi 4, he has a timeshare in KIA where is rotate every 4 months. in his 20th he use to be a baseball pitcher for a team call the Marlboro. Then he went to holland to study and there he was introduced to the Drug world and since then his live has turn into a person that live day by day of stealing.

When he is in KIA he will get well but when released he is back to his old habit (Stealing). Last time I spoke to him, he was going to be going into a program to get well.

He explaned to me that when there is notting to eat on the street, he will just get arrested so he can get to eat and then he will go and sit in KIA for 3 months till the case come in court. All the Chollers know this method of free loading and they are winning the battle since the Human Rights Law in KIA are applied and so they will get well in 3 month and after that back onto the street. Revolving KIA Choller Door.

Hi Caps,
So do you think JoJo is also the guy on the right that was in the Lorenzo drug bust?

[San]

From the last thread, a small post of interest regarding the sandals, cement, and a body.

******* wrote - "Yes,plenty of places including the cemetaries..It would be all too easy to put her in a hole and pour concrete on top of her."

I've never thougt that the cement at the VDS place could have been a diversion.  IIRC, there was construction going on, and perhaps cement being poured elsewhere.  Are there places a cement truck would have been out of place?  Places where a cement truck (or pouring by some other means) would not have been out of place at the time?  jmho

Also the backhoe, are there any reports of a backhoe being at the VDS property?  I think that is a good sized piece of equipment to get on the property and I'm thinking that someone would have seen or heard something.  There would be places that a backhoe would not be out of the ordinary.  imho

Yup,all kinds of contruction going on in aruba in summer of 2005...namely the ISA where joran attended,anita works and joran was said to have stayed a night or 2 there that week.

Yep a big construction project.  One of the school teachers said Joran stayed after school and helped move stuff.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I found this article very interesting,not saying I totally agree with his therory but it is interesting.


After writing and thinking about the Natalee Holloway disappearance there has been one thing that has bothered me about the progress of the investigation and the approach. The theory of why Natalee disappeared and how I have outlined in other articles on American Chronicle over time but there is one facet of the theory that was a real puzzle. To explain that part of the investigation required another look at what motive would prevent people from pursuing a person instead of a body. This is what I have come up with.

Suppose after Natalee disappeared, her mother was approached and told , "If you want to ever see your daughter alive again , do not operate under the assumption she is alive." They knew a search for a body would turn up nothing. You notice that most mothers find it very difficult to give up on the life they gave birth to. Only two things could account for that to be accepted fairly soon in the investigation. First of all it could be that Beth just couldn´t stand the thought of Natalee not at peace in some form. On the other hand if she were told that any encouragement of looking for Natalee as a captive would result in Natalee´s death that could be motivation also.

When you look at the criminal mind and the threats that they live by such a scenario is not out of the realm of possibilities. Recognizing that if Natalee was alive and captive and found that the crooks could be caught and their whole lucrative operation threatened or destroyed and the government of Aruba implicated, a simple threat is not something they would be above doing. This would also explain the reluctance of many of the press to pursue the search for a live person. Beth could have told Greta for instance that she would only be interviewed with the premise that Natalee was dead. Greta may have inquired and simply have been told that these are the conditions of an interview take it or leave it. Or she may have divulged the reason with the understanding that it would not be made public. The intriguing facet of this scenario is that no matter what Beth says to negate or admit the theory we cannot be sure there is nothing to it. For if it is true that she received a threat then making it public would be a betrayal to the crooks and Natalee could be killed. On the other hand if she denies there is anything to this approach, that too is playing into the crooks´ hands. She is avoiding the possibility that they will kill Natalee because she is still operating under the crooks´ threat to Natalees´s life.

This of course brings up another concern. What if a search for Natalee alive is rejuvenated by the acceptance of this theory by those investigating her disappearance. Would not that endanger Natalee´s life? This was bothering at first. But then I realized that if I were in a captive position would I not want some chance of discovery and escape and/or release? Knowing that once someone in the underworld is under suspicion and may be discovered, like rats they scurry and will squeal to save their skin. A promise of leniency for coming forward and leading to the recovery of Natalee safe and sound might sink into some thumbnail brain that doesn´t want to go to prison or under the needle. That may be the impetus for a person involved in Natalee´s disappearance to come forward and salvage their life. In every mob there´s a person who will rat the others out instead of going down with the ship. This is the first chance for that person to see the writing on the wall and get their reprieve before someone else beats them to the punch. There is too much silence and nonsense for there not to be someone in the know about his case.


This part of the puzzle would explain why Joran is willing to talk of a dead Natalee although he gives different stories of how she died. The same is true of the Aruba "authorities" and their searches and theories that added up to nothing. It would explain how Joran was able to gamble underage in a public casino without any fear the authorities would crack down. Review the article " An Evaded Natalee Holloway Theory" under my other articles and see if it doesn´t fit all the facets outlined.

The burden is now on those who know that in order for Natalee to be found alive will require an understanding of how solutions are derived and that if a crime has a part that doesn´t make sense it cannot be ignored if a solution is to be found. The burden is not on Beth for if the theory is true she is helpless to either support or deny it. So it falls on those who see the best theory is the one that explains the situation with the least amount of assumptions that are plausible. There are too many implausible "explanations" associated with a dead Natalee theory. That three teenage boys could kill a girl with not a trace of evidence of a body is a pretty far stretch to begin with. All the subsequent events and investigations and searches that added up to nothing only requires some alternative approach. One has not emerged that has had all the components explained until now. Of course the theory may be proven wrong but at this point unless a body washes up on the beach ( which it won´t ) the search for Natalee should go on knowing that the possibility of her being alive is higher than being dead. A motive for her death cannot be established for three teenage boys. Rape is not very plausible and the focus of looking for a body that there was no fear of finding says that something far more sinister is afoot.

All the inconsistencies and evasions by the authorities of Aruba needs to be cataloged and presented to the public. The pressure belongs on their backs and from that pressure will come the voice that will see that the jig is up and they could very will be implicated for having what they perceive to be a minor part of this crime. The alternative is to sit still and simply accept what cannot be explained. This is not how most Americans treat their fellow citizens. American soldiers look after their own and so should al those Americans that see that an injustice is being perpetuated by what appears to be a coverup by the authorities of Aruba. With Justice for All, doesn´t exclude a girl from Alabama.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/67407

[KarmaRoundUp]

From the last thread, a small post of interest regarding the sandals, cement, and a body.

******* wrote - "Yes,plenty of places including the cemetaries..It would be all too easy to put her in a hole and pour concrete on top of her."

I've never thougt that the cement at the VDS place could have been a diversion.  IIRC, there was construction going on, and perhaps cement being poured elsewhere.  Are there places a cement truck would have been out of place?  Places where a cement truck (or pouring by some other means) would not have been out of place at the time?  jmho

Also the backhoe, are there any reports of a backhoe being at the VDS property?  I think that is a good sized piece of equipment to get on the property and I'm thinking that someone would have seen or heard something.  There would be places that a backhoe would not be out of the ordinary.  imho

Yup,all kinds of contruction going on in aruba in summer of 2005...namely the ISA where joran attended,anita works and joran was said to have stayed a night or 2 there that week.

Yep a big construction project.  One of the school teachers said Joran stayed after school and helped move stuff.

If that is what they did with her she will never be found.Soooo much contruction,constantly going on on aruba.I'm almost to the point of re thinking about if she is still alive somewhere.