Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #3 7/5/10 - 7/8/10

[ospainter]

That is strange, and why would Terri be the one to drive Kyron to go meet his mom? You would think they would want to get on the road rather early to drop him off. Sure seems like there wasn't a lot of conversation going on in this family, like nobody knew what the other one was doing.

Sure seems that way to me also.

OS

[newfie]

I had the same thought, the parents probably worked things out  around a work schedule. I see plenty of time for some afternoon fun before Kyron has to go to Eugene. Terri may have enjoyed bringing Kyron and getting out for awhile, while her husband watched the little one at home. Wasn't there something said about meeting with James as well to bring him home for the weekend?

[New Monkey]

I am not a Terri supporter at all at this point but her bodybuilding pics to me don;t look like she took steroids. Even anabolic steroids taken by mouth, which are tentatively milder than a hormone injection, would make her more veinous & her neck would appear bulkier. To me, & this is just my opinion, she appears to have worked out diligently & was probably on a low fat high protein diet of some kind. People can look like this by eating egg whites, chicken (steamed or broiled), a tsp of sugar & 3 protein shakes a day - paired with weight lifting & treadmill.

Again, jmo and all that.

In my opinion, she would have had to have put HOURS (daily) in at the gym to look like that.  I don't know anything about steroids, but I do have some experience in the gym.  In my more diligent days, I spent at least an hour and a half a day at the gym.  45 minutes cardio and 45 minutes weights.  I wasn't trying to bulk up at all, just tone and get in good shape.  I did the low carb, higher protein stuff like  egg whites, chicken breast, nuts, etc.  There is no way on God's green earth I could have ever looked like that without some serious, serious, serious time in the gym.  I mean hours a day.  I'm a smaller boned person naturally so maybe I would have to work harder than someone just naturally bigger boned anyway, I don't know.  I still go to the gym and see women who work out for 3-4 hours a day and they don't look like that, but maybe they're not trying to and maybe it has more to do with what kind of workout you're doing and what kind of weight you're lifting?

[Titch]

Titch
Within the topic of what was stated in Terri's past divorce - I call it hearsay because I can not call it truth. It was stated on the video and " none of us " know what is truth or speculations created, what Terri really " filed ". My mention of it (Aids/HIV) is because I truly believe that is one of the most vindictive things that could be stated against a spouse within Divorce proceedings and child molestation would rank right up there as well ( Especially if was said out of malice and it was untrue and unfounded)  People do and will say anything within Divorce. Which is unknown at this time of what is or what isn't Truth.  So I will leave it at that, and no longer wish to talk about it. I respect your words and what you offered. I thank you kindly for your thoughts.  I may have brought too much attention to the subject and If I did I apologize. It is not directly related to Kyron ..and he is the focus. Even though Terri seems to be the center of attention. My thoughts are with Kyron respectively.
You have offered so much for Kyron and your words are appreciated.  Thank you  

Deenie, I completely agree with you with people being vindictive during divorce. Compleyely agree 100%. I am hoping you didn't take it to heart (my post) as I was only trying to provide the education behing being positive then later testing to not being positive anymore (for people that may not have known the difference). I'm so very sorry if it appeared I was being flippant, as it was sincerely not my intention. I'm glad you brought the video on here, though, bc I didn't see it prior. I think the media would have to have the divorce documents in front of them for them to be able to issue a statement like that over the national airwaves. I've been looking for the divorce documents ever since I saw this viveo, only bc I think it could provide more insight into the kind of person Terri really is. When dealing with ugly situations, people naturally tend to show their "ugly" side. I'd find it interesting to see how well she handled herself during her first divorce. (((throwing hugs your way)))

[Deenie]

That is strange, and why would Terri be the one to drive Kyron to go meet his mom? You would think they would want to get on the road rather early to drop him off. Sure seems like there wasn't a lot of conversation going on in this family, like nobody knew what the other one was doing.

Sure seems that way to me also.

OS

I agree. Sounds like it was Two Adults living within a House that was shared and not united in conversation. In all honesty though " that is typical" of many families today.  Too Many   and its sad. Especially when there are children of any age living in the home. Communication is the least of efforts. It is all about doing the daily grind. Again

[ospainter]

Good afternoon everyone

I have a couple questions

We heard from someone about a Dr appt, was it the next day or next week? Who said it?

DY said yesterday, that TH was supposed to meet her at Eugene with Kyron that Fri, he was going to spend the weekend with her and Tony. Going fishing with Toni, new pole, practicing with it, seems Kyron would want to be picked up from school get to DY's asap heck with ice cream, course I don't know how far Eugene is from Portland and guess they could have gotten treat-ice cream on the way.

We heard that they were going for ice cream after school from someone.

Kaine doesn't seem to know about Dr appt. or the weekend visit with DY (I think he is the one stating about going for a treat-ice cream) or am I just confused about this?

I believe James dad said James was going for a pre planned week long visit with TH beginning Sat June 5th. Just mentioning it, probably not important.

Janet I don't know how you do it but can you find the quotes on this? Pretty please.

For me, it's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand was doing regarding this child.

Has anyone heard TH speak at all since this happened?

TY

OS

Eugene is about a 2 hour drive south of Portland.  It was about at the 1/2 way mark to Medford. 

I can add this about the "ice cream" question:
Q: When is the last time Kaine saw Kyron?

    A: KAINE – I last saw him at about 7:45 am. He was coming back to the house after feeding our cat (Bootsie) and I was heading out to the car to head into the office. I walked over to him, told him I was extremely proud of him for the effort he put into his red-eyed tree frog project, and for him to have a great and fun day at the science fair. We talked about maybe going for a special treat and playing the Wii after school, and then I said “I love you”. He said “I love you too, Dad”, at which point we hugged, and then he went into the house as I got into the car and left. While I have not seen him since, that moment in time is still etched in my mind as if it just happened and is a constant reminder of the joy of having him as a son.

And I found this about the doctor's appointment:

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.
(Jaymie Finster is reportedly a longtime friend of Terri's.)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Brandi

TY, so from Kaine's words, I guess he didn't know Kyron was going to spend the weekend with his bio mom and SD.

2 hr drive to Eugene, seems they would have wanted to leave right after school. But what do I know....

The more that comes out the stranger this case gets, for me anyway.

OS

If Desiree had to work until say 5, then she would not be able to meet in Eugene until closer to 7 or 7:30pm.  That would give plenty of time to play on the Wii and get ice cream.

I went through the same thing when my son was young.  I would drive 1/2 way.  In my case I would normally work it out that the drive was during the morning hours and not at night. 

Klaas

TY, never thought of that. Good point.

I do find it odd though that the planned trip wasn't mentioned until yesterday when Kaine wasn't there, maybe my mind is working overtime.

OS

[Deenie]

No Worries Titch ( its a touchy subject with me because I have lost family *before Hiv/Aids was recognized as it is today. And I have lost loved ones to Aids after it exploded in the medical world post 90s. I too have many gay friends who I love dearly and worry for, all the time, because they are single " OUT" and living sage.. 
My adoptive son (my Daughters best friend) He is just beautiful inside/outside and he's 18 and I think he is precious and I worry for his future. I do appreciate your words and your efforts and I took nothing you said as uggh. (( hugs back, no hard feelings)).

[Mon Quixote]

I'm having a real problem with this murder for hire thing, but it does happen so who knows?

Hi Rose, I have a problem with it too.  And if the Landscaper is here illegally, that doesn't mean a thing.  They would sign him up immediately for food stamps, medicaid, and lower college tuition, but not arrest him.

Maybe it's because I'm Mexican-American, 2nd Gen born here, or maybe it's because I'm angry that this sweet little boy whose smile matches my son's is still missing but really, I find myself very offended by the food stamp statement and its sentiment.  My grandmother was what you would have considered illegal until the ppl she worked for helped her get her "papers."  I cannot think of human beings in terms of legality or illegality.  I have friends who are here undocumented, none of whom are signed up for any government assistance because they are too proud.  OK, I’m done.  * stepping off soapbox *

My son's nanny, who was here legally, had a daughter, also her legally, who hooked up with a guy who was undocumented and they lived near Seattle.  There was a large community of undocumented workers there.  The possibility/probability exists that the LS may have hesitated to contact LE because he wasn't authorized to work in the US.  The majority of these guys try to keep a very low profile and fly under the radar.  Calling attention to themselves would be counterproductive. 

Best,
C

[no rose colored glasses]

The landscaper could be any nationality, I'm not sure where he is a Mexican came from. Many different people know how to do yard work, and do it quite well. I've seen many different people through my years do landscaping. I guess we should wait and see who this guy is and what is background is, maybe he didn't want to come forward because he is married with kids, that would stop a lot of people. I'm confused how this all turned into a debate about illegals, a topic I feel strongly about, but sure won't debate it on this thread.

[Deenie]

I'm having a real problem with this murder for hire thing, but it does happen so who knows?

Hi Rose, I have a problem with it too.  And if the Landscaper is here illegally, that doesn't mean a thing.  They would sign him up immediately for food stamps, medicaid, and lower college tuition, but not arrest him.

Maybe it's because I'm Mexican-American, 2nd Gen born here, or maybe it's because I'm angry that this sweet little boy whose smile matches my son's is still missing but really, I find myself very offended by the food stamp statement and its sentiment.  My grandmother was what you would have considered illegal until the ppl she worked for helped her get her "papers."  I cannot think of human beings in terms of legality or illegality.  I have friends who are here undocumented, none of whom are signed up for any government assistance because they are too proud.  OK, I’m done.  * stepping off soapbox *

My son's nanny, who was here legally, had a daughter, also her legally, who hooked up with a guy who was undocumented and they lived near Seattle.  There was a large community of undocumented workers there.  The possibility/probability exists that the LS may have hesitated to contact LE because he wasn't authorized to work in the US.  The majority of these guys try to keep a very low profile and fly under the radar.  Calling attention to themselves would be counterproductive. 

Best,
C

C, I hope you did not find insult here on SM - Immigration it is such a touchy subject " huge right now within the United States" and will be for a long time .
But I hope you " C " know " here" no one is outright poking at anyone. I hope you find SM to be a open minded forum and not insensitive to anyone....
eeeeek....
I am overstepping .. Klaas hit me with a banana peel ... I will take it.  ( deenie ducking) 

[newfie]

  Not that I put alot of stock in this paper, but I like Pat Brown.

http://wweek.com/editorial/3635/14243/


Allegations that 7-year-old Kyron Horman’s stepmom tried to hire a man to kill her husband could provide a breakthrough in the case of the missing boy and offer crucial insight into Terri Moulton Horman’s personality, national experts say.The Oregonian first reported the allegations July 4, citing anonymous sources. The daily newspaper say investigators have learned that Terri Moulton Horman offered her landscaper money six or seven months ago to kill Kaine Horman, who is her husband and Kyron’s father.

Kaine Horman filed for divorce and a restraining order against Terri Moulton Horman on June 28, citing irreconcilable differences. Neither has commented publicly about the divorce or the allegations of a hired hit. Kyron Horman went missing from Skyline K-8 School on June 4, and his stepmom is the last person reported to have seen him.

The experts WW contacted all emphasized that no evidence of the allegations against Terri Moulton Horman has been made public. None of them has direct knowledge of the case other than what has been in the media.

But two nationally renowned criminal psychologists and an expert on child-abduction cases tell WW that, if confirmed, the allegation is a bombshell.

“If this is true, it gives us a pretty major insight into what kind of person she is and that she is indeed capable of doing something to Kyron,” says Pat Brown, a forensic psychologist in Washington, D.C. “Clearly, anyone who takes out a hit on their husband or wife definitely jumps into the psychopathic category.”

Martin Williams, a forensic psychologist in San Jose, Calif., also says putting a hit on someone would be a strong indicator of psychosis.

“If it’s true, then you figure this is someone whose mind is open to using murder as a solution,” Williams says. “One of the things that stops us all from being murderers is not just the consequences, it’s a feeling of empathy for other people. Psychopaths don’t have that.”

Brown says psychopaths often show an inability to give normal emotional reactions. She notes Terri Moulton Horman has raised suspicion with her behavior in public, including writing on Facebook about “hitting the gym.”

[Wyks]

<snipped>

Does anyone know the Gym that T and K were members of?

The Xtreme Edge
Beaverton Oregon


http://www.theedgegym.com/

facebook:  (taking donations for the search)
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Xtreme-Edge/279730123646

[Mon Quixote]

<respectfulyl snipped for length>

C, I hope you did not find insult here on SM - Immigration it is such a touchy subject " huge right now within the United States" and will be for a long time .
But I hope you " C " know " here" no one is outright poking at anyone. I hope you find SM to be a open minded forum and not insensitive to anyone....
eeeeek....
I am overstepping .. Klaas hit me with a banana peel ... I will take it.  ( deenie ducking) 

I'm hypersensitive about it and I shouldn't be, I know but it's hard.  Everyone here is awesome, it's why I choose here to lurk/learn and not other sites.  The honesty, openess and acceptance here is genuine and the sincerity obvious.  I am quite often in awe of the depth and breadth of compassion and caring of the ppl on this site.  I only felt compelled to comment because it made me sad.   And I don't need help feeling sad when there is already so much these &^%#$ give us to work with when they take these innocent babies.  Maybe I just need more coffee... 

{{big hugs to all}}

[Gypsy DD]

Klaasend, TY for that article about the prosecutor having no objections to unsealing the RO against Terri.

This makes me believe an arrest is near.  I don't know why i feel that way I just do.

[Gypsy DD]

Also, about the LS guy.  I think that he probably is not illegal if it is true that Terri met him or knew him from the school.

[newfie]

Big hugs back at ya Mon Q.  I found Pat Brown's assesment interesting in the above article from WW. She talks about munchausen syndrome. I wonder if that would apply where Terri is concerned? Maybe Terri has always been borderline with some mental issues. I believe I read she was adopted. We do not know what her biological or chemical makeup is. She may have struggled with these issues her whole life and maybe they are now surfacing. Just a theory.  Does anyone know if Oakes is still searching?

[Tamikosmom]

Ockham's Razor
 
You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.
_____


The dynamics within the Horman family circle appear to be taking the focus the morning of June 4, 2010 ... the morning when a little boy named Kyron went missing.

The chain of events encompassing the morning of June 4, 2010 do not appear to be complex.  There are pieces of the puzzle missing but the pieces which have been afforded do reveal a picture to base an investigation on and deem Terri Horman a person of interest.

Terri Horman was not forthcoming regarding her whereabouts on the day her stepson went missing.  Pressure need to be put on this woman to reveal the truth.  It should be all about Kyron not the rights of a stepmother whose cell record exposed deception.

IMO

Janet

++++++++

THE MORNING OF JUNE 4, 2010

Details emerge about the day Kyron Horman turned up missing
Published: Saturday, June 05, 2010, 11:21 PM
Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:02 PM

THE BACKPACK - THE COAT

Instead of taking the bus near his home off Cornelius Pass Road as usual, he hopped into the car with his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, who drove him to Skyline Elementary School.

They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."

THE PHOTO

Horman, who has raised Kyron since he was an infant, snapped a picture of him standing in front of it that she later posted on her Facebook page. .....

THE WITNESSES
 
Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html


Kyron Horman disappears during Oregon school science fair
June 7, 2010

THE WITNESSES

Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his stepmother and thought the two left school together.

http://origin.ksdk.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=203651&catid=28


Sources: Search for Kyron Horman Focuses on Step-Mom, Cell Records
4:52 PM June 17th, 2010

THE CELL PHONE RECORD

The island is more than five miles from rural Skyline Elementary School, where Horman was reported missing June 4. But rescuers on horseback, on foot and in dive teams have repeatedly scoured the island beginning around June 10 and continuing this week — even after Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton called off other major search operations last Sunday.

WW has learned that federal, county and city law-enforcement officials say the reason for the search of Sauvie Island is that cell-phone records reveal Kyron’s step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, may have been on the island the day he disappeared.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/17/sources-search-for-kyron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/


++++++ 

THE MORNING OF JUNE 4, 2010

Details emerge about the day Kyron Horman turned up missing
Published: Saturday, June 05, 2010, 11:21 PM
Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:02 PM

THE BACKPACK - THE COAT

Instead of taking the bus near his home off Cornelius Pass Road as usual, he hopped into the car with his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, who drove him to Skyline Elementary School.

They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."

THE PHOTO

Horman, who has raised Kyron since he was an infant, snapped a picture of him standing in front of it that she later posted on her Facebook page. .....

THE WITNESSES
 
Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html


Kyron Horman disappears during Oregon school science fair
June 7, 2010

THE WITNESSES

Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his stepmother and thought the two left school together.

http://origin.ksdk.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=203651&catid=28


Sources: Search for Kyron Horman Focuses on Step-Mom, Cell Records
4:52 PM June 17th, 2010

THE CELL PHONE RECORD

The island is more than five miles from rural Skyline Elementary School, where Horman was reported missing June 4. But rescuers on horseback, on foot and in dive teams have repeatedly scoured the island beginning around June 10 and continuing this week — even after Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton called off other major search operations last Sunday.

WW has learned that federal, county and city law-enforcement officials say the reason for the search of Sauvie Island is that cell-phone records reveal Kyron’s step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, may have been on the island the day he disappeared.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/17/sources-search-for-kyron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/

[Brandi]

Big hugs back at ya Mon Q.  I found Pat Brown's assesment interesting in the above article from WW. She talks about munchausen syndrome. I wonder if that would apply where Terri is concerned? Maybe Terri has always been borderline with some mental issues. I believe I read she was adopted. We do not know what her biological or chemical makeup is. She may have struggled with these issues her whole life and maybe they are now surfacing. Just a theory.  Does anyone know if Oakes is still searching?

http://www.myspace.com/127939120

I guess he is.

[Babybear]

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html

DA: Sealing Restraining Order No Longer Needed

POSTED: 10:40 am PDT July 7, 2010
UPDATED: 10:53 am PDT July 7, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Multnomah County's district attorney said in a letter Wednesday that unsealing a restraining order filed by Kaine Horman will no longer undermine the sheriff's criminal investigation.

Norm Frink, the county's chief deputy district attorney, cited media coverage over the past weekend as the reason the restraining order no longer needed to be sealed.

Allegations of a murder-for-hire plot involving Terri Horman and Kaine Horman surfaced Sunday. A landscaper told Multnomah County detectives that Terri Horman offered him money several months ago to kill her husband, according to sources close to FOX 12.

Sources said Terri Horman, the landscaper and an undercover officer met, but she shut down the conversation.
Upon learning of the allegations involving his wife, Kaine Horman took his 19-month-old daughter and moved out of the couple's home, sources said. On Monday, he filed for divorce and for a restraining order against Terri Horman.

The earliest the restraining order may be unsealed is Thursday. It is up to Judge Keith Meisenheimer on whether the order will be unsealed.

Deputies have said Terri Horman was the last person to see missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman when he disappeared from school June 4. Kyron's biological mother, Desiree Young, has pleaded with Terri Horman to cooperate with investigators.

Per what I highlighted in red,
Is this as in "OK Mr Crazy loon get the (expleteive) out of my house!" as she is attempting to call 911 or?

Just a reminder that LE took the Landscaper's account seriously enough to wire him and attempt to set Terri up in a sting.  Also a judge issued the restraining order based upon MORE than just the word of the Landscaper.

I agree Klaas.  There must be something which seemed to be very serious to LE to cause them to advise Kaine to take the baby and leave. 
Obviously they believed LS's version of events over TH's denial. 

[Wyks]

The landscaper could be any nationality, I'm not sure where he is a Mexican came from. Many different people know how to do yard work, and do it quite well. I've seen many different people through my years do landscaping. I guess we should wait and see who this guy is and what is background is, maybe he didn't want to come forward because he is married with kids, that would stop a lot of people. I'm confused how this all turned into a debate about illegals, a topic I feel strongly about, but sure won't debate it on this thread.

Been to a couple of other sites and folks have been saying that.  First place I saw it mentioned is the following link.  This woman supposedly knows Terri's parents, and supposedly has spoken with Terri.  Yanno, take it with a grain (bag) of salt, rumor til comfirmed by LE, or whatever.

Am not sure, but I don't think this woman said whether he is legal or illegal.  That part was, I believe, only guessing by some posters in this and other forums.  Other posters may have forgot to mention it was just a guess, and yanno how that can get out of hand as it becomes 'fact' down the road.

http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/rosecitybluessinger/index.html
July 06, 2010, 11:37AM

"This guy is of Mexican descent and does not speak but broken english....."