Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[private eye]

There are some photos of them on a catamaran and what looks like a charter fishing boat at RU, if my memory is right. And that is questionable:)

[Lala'sMom]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

[private eye]

Hello everyone. I have been trying to think of something effective that can be done to help Beth keep the pressure on Aruba. Does anyone think this might be an effective tool?

If we had a good letter writer and an attorny to review the letter to assess liability, I wonder how effective it would be to write a letter to the major newspapers of each state basically to tell of Beth's treatment, the boycott, etc

[MumInOhio]

Lala's...see what these posters think....looks like they studied that video

Some interesting posts from the front page about the casino video. I recall that it was discussed a few weeks back.

   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 5:52 pm
I have a problem with this casino tape.
Play it frame by frame. It shows Natalee walking into the casino at 20:58.
The time line when she is sitting at the table is 20:25
At one point at 20:25 it appears she is on a cell phone and Lee is not there.
At another frame also 20:25 Natalee has no phone is just sitting and watching and Lee is back. I’m not trying to rewrite anything but how can you be seated watching a card game before you come into the casino? Also the two times when Joran enters the casino and the camera cuts to the table with the MBHS Students they are two different scenes.

   minnesota dad on May 10th, 2007 6:55 pm
1006 -
My point from the other day. The time stamps on the videos are wacky. Joran shows up thirty minutes before….Natalee shows up thirty minutes after she was supposed to be at that table.
   
Based on all of the corruption and timeline shuffling going on….here is what I think.
Joran entered the casino at 7:58pm.
Natalee entered at 8:58pm
Card Game shows 8:25pm consistently on all of the clips.
Its as if….someone wanted the timeline to fit with the testimony that was out there. Joran testified that he did not make it to the blackjack tables until 10:pm after playing out his father’s “free” chips at the Free Texas Hold ‘em Tourney.
Joran stating this would help out Paulus’ alibi and would distance Paulus from how late he was there playing blackjack. I believe the clock on the camera shots has been altered to attempt to show that Paulus was at the casino earlier in the evening (8:25pm) without worrying about Joran’s testimony…..because he lies anyways. If Paulus was at the casino after the time where Natalee entered (8:58pm)…it once again screws up Paulus’ alibi and timeline.
In the end….Paulus is your perp. This appears to be one more attempt by Aruban law enforcement to leak information that would help timelines that has backfired. What a bunch of amateurs.


1.   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 7:44 pm
Minnesota Dad: Thanks I thought I wasn’t seeing something correctly; My opinion these videos have been altered. It wasn’t stolen and leaked to ABC.
It was a deliberate attempt to alter timelines.
Check the frames. I’m sure Natalee is on a cellphone. Another she is constantly looking at Ruth’s watch.
It is almost as if she can’t wait to go somewhere to meet someone.
 
 
 
 

[private eye]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

Not too many days ago somebody posted that and discovered "proof" that the time on a photo had been changed. Can you search the last months posts?

[Lala'sMom]

Sorry, Klaas provided me a link to the video...I will be good for a while.

[Lala'sMom]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

I am incompetent when it comes to searching anywhere. LOL  That is why I ask so many questions, but I am certain there is someone much better qualified than me to help you. 

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

Not too many days ago somebody posted that and discovered "proof" that the time on a photo had been changed. Can you search the last months posts?

[Observer]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

Not too many days ago somebody posted that and discovered "proof" that the time on a photo had been changed. Can you search the last months posts?

I don't recall that discussion,was it on the front page? Looking back at the few seconds of footage they released it is just weird that Natalee is pointing in Joran's direction and in the same foortage the other MB student is pointing at PVDS. You can clearly see the timestamp on this video. More than 2 hours after Paulus said he left the casino.

[MumInOhio]

Hi...******* I remember the discussion here a couple of weeks back about the siver camera or whatever and Paulus reaching under the table and I think someone posted a few days later that it appeared someone reached towards his chips. This is all fuzzy to me right now, but that was why I posted the front page page that I had found.

[klaasend]

Trahadornan di valero pafor di planta 
Local 
Tuesday, 08 January 2008 



1.45 pm Nos ta ricibiendo algun informe cu ta indica cu bastante trahador di Valero lo ta saliendo for di e planta. Esaki debi na "power failure" Valero ta evacuando algun empleado pa por preveni cualkier caso lamentabel.

Through translator:

trahadornan of valero abroad of plant
tuesday, 08 january 2008

1.45 pm we is ricibiendo some informe cu is indica cu enough trahador of valero will is saliendo for of the plant. this debi at "power failure" valero is evacuando some employee for can preveni cualkier caso regrettable. come across


Looks like some kind of power failure at Valero and Valero has evacuated some employees
 

[Observer]

Hi...******* I remember the discussion here a couple of weeks back about the siver camera or whatever and Paulus reaching under the table and I think someone posted a few days later that it appeared someone reached towards his chips. This is all fuzzy to me right now, but that was why I posted the front page page that I had found.

HI..Yup I remember all that,but I dont recall seeing proof that the timestamp on the casino video was changed.

[klaasend]

In the previous "Breaking News" regarding the Natural Pool area it looks like they have retrieved the body of possibly a tourist:

for more or less 11.30 of morning one man will have to owing to cay in sea at the part bruto at natural pool esta conchi. this is much dangerous mirando the olanan big y the barancanan cu have eynan. he cu owing to cay is one tourist y for exactly 1 or y 20 of afternoon dr. mungra owing to constata dead of the person. various instancia as helicopter, police, brandweer y ambulance was at the sitio for achieve the curpa. click read more for some of the imagenan. come across

[Lala'sMom]

Mum
Thanks....this doesn't jive with any thing I am working on now.  Let me explain..if I can... Who spoke to Joran when he arrived at CnC that night?  Which girl was it?  I can't seem to find it anywhere..then again I don't have all the 302's . Also, why doesn't Lee mention the older guy at the table?  We know he is there, but was he so inconspicuous that she did not notice him?  Maybe he was not trying to be noticed. Do we have Ruth McVay's 302?  Why doesn't Joran mention that he met Natalee earlier in the day on the beach?  Was Lee mistaking him for someone else? 
Why does Joran not mention anyone he that came to talk to Joran while he was at the blackjack table? Could it have been Guido...no, he isn't fat...he does have dark hair, which I would think this guy had from Lee's description.  The only two friends he mentions in this first PV are the guys he saw at the bar.  We have to assume from Joran that he followed the girls out to the pool area. He doesn't say that...but Lee does. Now, back to the Chinese/Hawaiian guy...I know some have mentioned him recently.  So who are the likely candidates for this person? 

According to Joran...he calls Jamie on his cell phone after his phone call to daddy sloot around 11:00pm that night.  So I guess Jamie is out...if you choose to believe Joran.  Then who's next?  Koen?  He would fit the description.  He may have been the person that spoke to Joran. Who's next?  The Santos guy...the one that Jossy mentioned once after a question about who else needs to be questioned or something like that.  Does he look more Chinese than Hawaiian?  I can't remember...is he fat?  Could this person have been Steve Croes?  He might look Hawaiian to someone that just glanced at him.  Who is this person...that is a very good question and why hasn't any of the other girls ever mentioned him before.....or have they?  Just thinking out loud, but the times don't jive with what  is in some of the statements...I can't seem to reconcile it all just yet.  Any thoughts?



According to Lee Broughton's 302:

Holloway drinking Red fires and becomes intoxicated.
Dinner between 6 and 7pm.
HOtel casino to watch ruth McVay gamble.
Holloway met Joran earlier in the day on the beach.
8:40pm Natalee switched to a mixed drink with Vodka.

Enter the fat chinese or hawaiian looking guy...friend of Joran.
9:45pm they all go to hotel bar by the pool,  Joran and friend go too.
Five minutes later Joran leaves.  Natalee is the one that invites him to CnC later that night.

After 10:00pm they load up on the bus and leave to go to CNC. Arrived and were doing body shots by 10:45 pm. 
Lee and Natalee went to bathroom around 11:45 or 12:00.  Joran was there and they passed him on way to bathroom without acknowledging him.
Joran was by the steps watching Natalee dance.

Bar closed at 1:00am on Monday May 30, 2005.


Joran's PV of 6/9:

When it was half time of the game my father wanted to go home to go and babysit my ten year old brother. At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play blackjack. While I was sitting at the table the girl "Natalee" that is missing now to the blackjack table together with her friends. When the English speaking girls came to the blackjack table they introduced themselves. I do not remember the names of the girls anymore but they were from the same group of students that Natalee belonged to. According to me the friends of Natalee played blackjack but Natalee didn't. A girl that was sitting at my left side on the table asked me in English if I could help her play blackjack because she had lost U.S. $ 360,= of her father's money.

<<<<<<<<snipped>>>>>>>>>>>
The girlfriends of the girl asked me if I was going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. I told them that I couldn't do that because I had school tomorrow. The girls kept insisting that I should meet them at "Carlos & Charlies" because it was their last night on Aruba. After they kept insisting I agreed to meet with at "Carlos & Charlies". I don't know that name of the girl but I remember her from a photo in the newspaper on which Natalee was printed on the left side of her friends and the other girl was on the right side of the friends. This girl is the same girl  that sat at my left side at the blackjack table. After this I told the girl that it was OK and that I would do my best to go to "Carlos & Charlies". After that the group of girls walked to the Sportsbar. In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua".





<<<<<<<<<<<<snipped>>>>>>>>>
After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.
When we entered Carlos & Charlies I was greeted by the girl who is printed on the picture. When we got in I saw that Natalee was dancing on the stage/podium. I saw that Natalee wasn't holding a drink. The friend of Natalee said to me to go and dance with Natalee because she fancied me. I took her word for it that Natalee was interested in me. Natalee made hand gestures for me to come and dance with her. I also did not see Natalee with a purse/handbag. She did this about seven to eight times. After I had refused to dance with Natalee Deepak, Satish and myself walked to the bar. There we bought a "Yard Whisky Coke". Such a drink costs U.S. $ 12,-. It is a plastic cup and it comes in different colours. I payed for all three drinks. I got a red cup but I do not remember now what colour cups Deepak and Satish got. Then the three of us walked back to the stage/podium. While I stood there Natalee saw me again. When she saw me she got down from the stage/podium and walked over to me. She grabbed my hand and asked me if I would go to the bar with her. On the way there she said to me that I had to drink a Jellyshots (handwritten with an arrow pointing to this section of the statement, it says "or body shot") off of her. I at that moment in time did know what a Jellyshot was but I did not know that she went and laid down on the bar and that I had to drink the Jellyshot from her belly button.
 

[Lala'sMom]

Sorry PI, my response to you in your previous post was really messed up.  Ooops!

[Kiwi]

Hi...******* I remember the discussion here a couple of weeks back about the siver camera or whatever and Paulus reaching under the table and I think someone posted a few days later that it appeared someone reached towards his chips. This is all fuzzy to me right now, but that was why I posted the front page page that I had found.

I was reading the time stamp stuff. Personally, they probably have multiple DVR's, with multiple cameras. They are not in sync with each other. Just like we all have a different time on our computers right now. However, the employee dealer has a time punch card for signing into the game that has to be accurate.

[Kermit]

Hello everyone. I have been trying to think of something effective that can be done to help Beth keep the pressure on Aruba. Does anyone think this might be an effective tool?

If we had a good letter writer and an attorny to review the letter to assess liability, I wonder how effective it would be to write a letter to the major newspapers of each state basically to tell of Beth's treatment, the boycott, etc

My suggestion would be to turn the tables on Aruba and get a dream team and go to the top & cc Interpol:


At the direction of the President or the Attorney General, the FBI may use its statutory authority to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if the FBI’s actions contravene customary international law. The President, acting through the Attorney General, has the inherent constitutional authority to deploy the FBI to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if those actions contravene customary international law. Extraterritorial law enforcement activities that are authorized by domestic law are not barred even if they contravene unexecuted treaties or treaty provisions, such as Article 2(4) of the
United Nations Charter. An arrest that is inconsistent with international or foreign law does not violate the Fourth Amendment.

And I would include in that letter:

We read in Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts and other related federal criminal statutes: U.S. CODE, SECTION 1001, states that "Whoever, in any mater within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States knowingly and willfully falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact, or makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations, or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years or both


Now view this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymSWgZm6ivo

Dompig admits there was sexual assault to charge Joran, & Kalpoes and they should be charged, BUT they changed the investigation!
p. 193 (Beth's book) - November 2, 2005 Dompig on MSNBC - Rita Cosby show stated "They are gulty as hell."
Then if you read his various accusations he has accused Beth for interfering in the investigation to place blame on her, he has made accusations that Natalee bought drugs, he has made accusations that Natalee died of an overdose,
he has made accusations that Natalee was buried in the sea, that she ran away, that Beth made her disappear to collect insurance money. He intentionally withheld Texas Equu Search & FBI divers from searches and he has made accusations that the answers are in the United States with the Mountain Brook teens. When the truth is it was Dompig, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Jan van der Straaten and unscrupulous judges that allowed the investigation to turn into a circus and crime that the world is still watching and wondering why the DUTCH are so flagrantly standing by and allowing the illegal conduct of the government and judiciary to prolificate. While tourism dollars are sinking Aruba's economy and their only hope is to make deals with illegal entities to keep Aruba afloat.

In addition file not only defamation lawsuits against Dompig, but also American's Julia Renfro and Charles Croes for their part in the cover-up with false and malicious intent to willfully cover-up and slander Beth Holloway and her daughter Natalee Holloway, but also under the Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts  - which is basically treason act of the U.S. Code.


Pierce the Evil and bring Justice for Natalee.

Well, that is what I would do.

ribbit

[MumInOhio]

Hawaiin looking and chunky  JAIME, Santos and I agree about Croes. We don't have Ruth's 302, but I have some quotes of interviews the MB students did and will look there.

Luis and Joshua popped up in his book, both at the beach and I believe as regulars at C&Cs. I think it's a PV of Deepaks that has Joran buing a guy a drink at C&Cs when he first gets there.

Also believe Jaime's PV has a different time that Joran calls him about going out, like afternoon, will check and post if I can find it. Sorry about all the I thinks!

[MumInOhio]

From Jaime's PV 6/17/2005


On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number "xxxxxxx". Sometimes Joran calls me on the mobile phone of my sister, her name is "Maria del Pilar CARRASQUIXIA CACERES". Her calling name is "Pilar". The mobile phone number of Pilar is "xxxxxxx". The mobile phone number of Joran is "xxxxxxx". Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to "Carlos & Charlies" and whether I wanted to meet up with him there. According to me I had said to Joran that I would let him know later that day whether or not I would go out with him that night. I had also said to Joran that I had to work the next day. According to me I was phoned later that day by Joran again but I hadn't answered my mobile phone. Because it is the vacation now I temporarily work in "Caribbean Overseas". I work in the big Poolkasten. On May 29th 2005 I stayed home and slept. I went to bed at approximately 22.00 hours.

[Blue Moon]

No update from the Persistance?  Sunday appears to be the last time they were heard from.  Hope they are having better weather and maybe they have found something.  One can hope can't they?

[Kermit]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

Not too many days ago somebody posted that and discovered "proof" that the time on a photo had been changed. Can you search the last months posts?

I don't recall that discussion,was it on the front page? Looking back at the few seconds of footage they released it is just weird that Natalee is pointing in Joran's direction and in the same foortage the other MB student is pointing at PVDS. You can clearly see the timestamp on this video. More than 2 hours after Paulus said he left the casino.

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court).  The taped information and his declaration that  he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”