Natalee Case Discussion #824 9/06/09 - 10/12/09

[WhiskeyGirl]

Whiskey girl.......... just WHO IS searching???????????????????????? All I hear are FALSE rumors out of Aruba or "Gold Monkeys". I see NO evidence of a continued search by Dave or anyone else.

Wreck

I have not heard anything official either regarding the continuing search.  However ... I do know that Debbie (BFN has a personal relationship with Dave and Robin Holloway and ... somehow do not think that she would fabricate on an open forum.

I do believe the solicitation of funds to further the search in Aruban waters would be considered fraud if there was not anything in the works.

Janet

++++++++
 

1.  February, 2008 - Kyle Kingman is solicitating funds toward the continuation of the search and ... those funds are designated to TES.

2.  April, 2008 - John Silvetti claims that Dave Holloway put him touch with the head of the tourist Association in regards to a "sizable" donation to assist in the costs associated with continuing the search.

3.  July, 2008 - Steve Holloway claims in his comment on SM Front Page that Dave intends to continue the search.

4.  March, 2009 - Tim Miller claims in a NBC.13 interview that there were still 270 targets to search.

5.  June, 2009 - Tim Miller reveals to Dana Pretzer that it is his intention to return to Aruba in regards to the targets that had yet been investigated.

6.  June, 2009 - Debbie (BFN) claims that Dave is working with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in the raising of funds to continue the search in Aruban waters.

About raising the money to continue the search.You have Schaeffer(MULTI_MILLIONAIRE) who works with BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES,as does Silvetti,who can't raise 1.5 million dollars????SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE ME THINKS....

I remember much monkey discussion about the financial trouble the businesses were in at the time.  The drilling business was in a tailspin, iirc there was even mention of bankruptcy.

So, when you have no money, how hard is it to scrape up a few million?  One million?

[jen3560]

Kyle said: "I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains."

Kyle said: " The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water."
 

roboposter response

How massive is that trap?  How heavy?  How many would be required to lift it onto a boat, secure, and transport it into the ocean?

It is some kind of trap/cage looking thing, I am not convinced it held any human remains. 

I think it more likely, the remains are in one of the other targets Persistence did not get the opportunity to follow up on.  Or, the ocean may be a ruse and Natalee was sold.

If people think she is found, there is no reason to keep searching - that is the mistake.  No evidence she has been found.

(roboposter out)

jmho

Kyle gave the size and probable weight of the cage - easily manouvered by 2 men.

[jen3560]

The words and opinions of the family hold higher ground that those of posters on any forum or board.

Ain't that the truth. And BETH said when she saw the images of the ROV dive "I need time to digest it" - she had not been given those images by the Persistence crew members. So what's that tell ya.

Dave also told Caps he doesn't communicate with people from Scared Monkeys.

don't make me post the suckers!
 

Hi Kermit

It tells me that Dave Holloway failed to reveal those ROV to the mother of his daughter and ... continued an ongoing relationship with John Silvetti.

 

How can this be justified?

Janet

+++++++
snip

Janet - Dave had never seen them either.  All he had seen were the images from the Dec 29th ROV dive.

[jen3560]

Whiskey girl.......... just WHO IS searching???????????????????????? All I hear are FALSE rumors out of Aruba or "Gold Monkeys". I see NO evidence of a continued search by Dave or anyone else.

Excellent point, Wreck!

[jen3560]

Whiskey girl.......... just WHO IS searching???????????????????????? All I hear are FALSE rumors out of Aruba or "Gold Monkeys". I see NO evidence of a continued search by Dave or anyone else.

Wreck

I have not heard anything official either regarding the continuing search.  However ... I do know that Debbie (BFN has a personal relationship with Dave and Robin Holloway and ... somehow do not think that she would fabricate on an open forum.

I do believe the solicitation of funds to further the search in Aruban waters would be considered fraud if there was not anything in the works.

Janet

++++++++
 

1.  February, 2008 - Kyle Kingman is solicitating funds toward the continuation of the search and ... those funds are designated to TES.

2.  April, 2008 - John Silvetti claims that Dave Holloway put him touch with the head of the tourist Association in regards to a "sizable" donation to assist in the costs associated with continuing the search.

3.  July, 2008 - Steve Holloway claims in his comment on SM Front Page that Dave intends to continue the search.

4.  March, 2009 - Tim Miller claims in a NBC.13 interview that there were still 270 targets to search.

5.  June, 2009 - Tim Miller reveals to Dana Pretzer that it is his intention to return to Aruba in regards to the targets that had yet been investigated.

6.  June, 2009 - Debbie (BFN) claims that Dave is working with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in the raising of funds to continue the search in Aruban waters.

About raising the money to continue the search.You have Schaeffer(MULTI_MILLIONAIRE) who works with BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES,as does Silvetti,who can't raise 1.5 million dollars????SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE ME THINKS....

I remember much monkey discussion about the financial trouble the businesses were in at the time.  The drilling business was in a tailspin, iirc there was even mention of bankruptcy.

So, when you have no money, how hard is it to scrape up a few million?  One million?

Wow, I think you missed quite a lot regarding the money.

Let's see.............in a nutshell...............

Superior Offshore (Louis Shaefer) had an IPO (Initial Public Offering) of their stock, and did so with fraudulent information to the SEC.  They inflated the worth of the company, lied about future plans, etc.  Tons and tons and tons of investors purchased stock.

Then Schaefer was paid out HUGE dividends from that ill gotten windfall - multi millions.

Then Schaefer sold many many many of his stocks, and got more multi millions.

Then he anonymously opened a PO Box and solicited for donations for the "search" for Natalee.

Then he hit the high seas with all his ill gotten millions, high tailed it to Aruba............where he promptly told the world that the money was running out.

Then Persistence pulled the plug after having MAPPED a vast area of the ocean floor - in ever deeper waters, in accordance with what Adolpho Richardson told them to do - without ever actually looking at a single one of the other "targets" they had planned to.

So Whiskey Girl you tell me - why would Schaefer pull the plug on this excercise when he has millions and millions to spare?  Why would he have solicited for donations for this search - on his own......ANONYMOUSLY when he has millions and millions to spare?

Why then would John Silvetti get on BFN and post that he needed at least ONE MILLION more dollars to return to Aruba to finish "searching"?

Why would ANYONE need to collect further funds for an additional search to inspect the remaining "targets", when Schaefer has more money than any one person could spend in a lifetime?

Why would ANYONE think that a future inspection of these "targets" is even going to happen - now 2 years after the fact, and NOT ONE THING has been done in those two years to get another trip put together?

The answers?

Jug told LALA'S that the Persistence's main purpose was OIL RELATED.

That little tidbit came directly from her keyboard.

If you had been reading about the oil activity around Aruba lately, you will know that:

1 - Venezuela claims the rights of the ocean surrounding Aruba

2 - Venezuela has newly "mapped/chartered/seismically recorded/eplored" areas of deposits

3 - Russia is currently drilling off the coastline of Aruba

ALL are things that would have required initial data by doing EXACTLY what Persistence was capable of doing while there.

But, as always - you are certainly entitled to believe what you wish to believe.  If you are truly interested in the goings on with all of this - I suggest you do your own research and will find that every single thing I stated in this post is FACT.

But don't take my word for it - or that of the dedicated Monkeys who have helped to find all this information - like I said, do your own research and you will find it all yourself.

Happy digging, Whiskey Girl.

[jen3560]

Whiskey Girl - one other thing.

Check the Aruban Chamber of Commerce for all of the MANY recently opened oil related and financial businesses.

And then tell me, if you can do so with a straight face, that NO oil exploration in the past 2 years occurred. 

[wreck]

Also, don't forget that it was Debbie (BFN) and Gold Monkeys touting a "new search" in Jan./Feb. this year along with the "pond" search. Since that time ---- NOTHING. In fact, the big TES fund raiser this summer (Beth was SUPPOSED to be the big star there) was canceled abruptly only the day before. There has been nothing about a Natalee search at all except for the RUMORS and a blurb in an Aruban newspaper in December last year.

[jen3560]

Also, don't forget that it was Debbie (BFN) and Gold Monkeys touting a "new search" in Jan./Feb. this year along with the "pond" search. Since that time ---- NOTHING. In fact, the big TES fund raiser this summer (Beth was SUPPOSED to be the big star there) was canceled abruptly only the day before. There has been nothing about a Natalee search at all except for the RUMORS and a blurb in an Aruban newspaper in December last year.

Wasn't it a Dutch newspaper, Wreck?  I seem to remember researching, and getting confirmation from our Dutch posters, the "journalist" who wrote the article was a tabloid type writer.  Oh, and the article, IIRC, only had quotes from John Silvetti - nothing from Natalee's family, or TES for that matter.

[jen3560]

And what's with the "roboposter" comments?

Smells like the late days of CTV, and early days of RU to me. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

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[Keepthefaith]

Whiskey girl.......... just WHO IS searching???????????????????????? All I hear are FALSE rumors out of Aruba or "Gold Monkeys". I see NO evidence of a continued search by Dave or anyone else.

Wreck

I have not heard anything official either regarding the continuing search.  However ... I do know that Debbie (BFN has a personal relationship with Dave and Robin Holloway and ... somehow do not think that she would fabricate on an open forum.

I do believe the solicitation of funds to further the search in Aruban waters would be considered fraud if there was not anything in the works.

Janet

++++++++
 

1.  February, 2008 - Kyle Kingman is solicitating funds toward the continuation of the search and ... those funds are designated to TES.

2.  April, 2008 - John Silvetti claims that Dave Holloway put him touch with the head of the tourist Association in regards to a "sizable" donation to assist in the costs associated with continuing the search.

3.  July, 2008 - Steve Holloway claims in his comment on SM Front Page that Dave intends to continue the search.

4.  March, 2009 - Tim Miller claims in a NBC.13 interview that there were still 270 targets to search.

5.  June, 2009 - Tim Miller reveals to Dana Pretzer that it is his intention to return to Aruba in regards to the targets that had yet been investigated.

6.  June, 2009 - Debbie (BFN) claims that Dave is working with Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer in the raising of funds to continue the search in Aruban waters.

About raising the money to continue the search.You have Schaeffer(MULTI_MILLIONAIRE) who works with BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES,as does Silvetti,who can't raise 1.5 million dollars????SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE ME THINKS....

I remember much monkey discussion about the financial trouble the businesses were in at the time.  The drilling business was in a tailspin, iirc there was even mention of bankruptcy.

So, when you have no money, how hard is it to scrape up a few million?  One million?

Wow, I think you missed quite a lot regarding the money.

Let's see.............in a nutshell...............

Superior Offshore (Louis Shaefer) had an IPO (Initial Public Offering) of their stock, and did so with fraudulent information to the SEC.  They inflated the worth of the company, lied about future plans, etc.  Tons and tons and tons of investors purchased stock.

Then Schaefer was paid out HUGE dividends from that ill gotten windfall - multi millions.

Then Schaefer sold many many many of his stocks, and got more multi millions.

Then he anonymously opened a PO Box and solicited for donations for the "search" for Natalee.

Then he hit the high seas with all his ill gotten millions, high tailed it to Aruba............where he promptly told the world that the money was running out.

Then Persistence pulled the plug after having MAPPED a vast area of the ocean floor - in ever deeper waters, in accordance with what Adolpho Richardson told them to do - without ever actually looking at a single one of the other "targets" they had planned to.

So Whiskey Girl you tell me - why would Schaefer pull the plug on this excercise when he has millions and millions to spare?  Why would he have solicited for donations for this search - on his own......ANONYMOUSLY when he has millions and millions to spare?

Why then would John Silvetti get on BFN and post that he needed at least ONE MILLION more dollars to return to Aruba to finish "searching"?

Why would ANYONE need to collect further funds for an additional search to inspect the remaining "targets", when Schaefer has more money than any one person could spend in a lifetime?

Why would ANYONE think that a future inspection of these "targets" is even going to happen - now 2 years after the fact, and NOT ONE THING has been done in those two years to get another trip put together?

The answers?

Jug told LALA'S that the Persistence's main purpose was OIL RELATED.

That little tidbit came directly from her keyboard.

If you had been reading about the oil activity around Aruba lately, you will know that:

1 - Venezuela claims the rights of the ocean surrounding Aruba

2 - Venezuela has newly "mapped/chartered/seismically recorded/eplored" areas of deposits

3 - Russia is currently drilling off the coastline of Aruba

ALL are things that would have required initial data by doing EXACTLY what Persistence was capable of doing while there.

But, as always - you are certainly entitled to believe what you wish to believe.  If you are truly interested in the goings on with all of this - I suggest you do your own research and will find that every single thing I stated in this post is FACT.

But don't take my word for it - or that of the dedicated Monkeys who have helped to find all this information - like I said, do your own research and you will find it all yourself.

Happy digging, Whiskey Girl.

I just had to respond to this post by Jen3560.Why?This is the type of post based on facts,as well as Logic & reasoning.As i'm not very good at math,it may take me a minute but,i will try to figure out how long it would take Schaeffer,on interest alone,to come up with 1.5 million dollars!

[Keepthefaith]

Let's just say Louis schaeffer truly wanted to do another search.How long would it take him to come up with $1.5million dollars?Louis puts $10,000,000 in the bank with 3% interest.3% of $10,000,000 is $300,000.Correct?So,realistically,it should've taken Louis about 5/6 months to come up with $1.5 million dollars..Please correct me if my math is wrong!It wouldn't suprise me!

[Keepthefaith]

Let's just say Louis schaeffer truly wanted to do another search.How long would it take him to come up with $1.5million dollars?Louis puts $10,000,000 in the bank with 3% interest.3% of $10,000,000 is $300,000.Correct?So,realistically,it should've taken Louis about 5/6 months to come up with $1.5 million dollars..Please correct me if my math is wrong!It wouldn't suprise me!

For WhiskeyGirls sake.Should we continue the mathematical game....Yeahhhhh!Let's just say Louis put $10,000,000 in the bank upon the looting that occured at the stockholders expense,which was close to two years ago,if i'm correct.$10,000,000 dollars has been sitting in an account with 3% interest for close to two years,give or take a few months.I'll use 20 months at 3% interest on 10,000,000 dollars isssssssss,over the course of 20 months??????????????????6 million dollars,6million dollars,6million dollars.....How many searches could they do??????WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR???

[2NJSons_Mom]

Let's just say Louis schaeffer truly wanted to do another search.How long would it take him to come up with $1.5million dollars?Louis puts $10,000,000 in the bank with 3% interest.3% of $10,000,000 is $300,000.Correct?So,realistically,it should've taken Louis about 5/6 months to come up with $1.5 million dollars..Please correct me if my math is wrong!It wouldn't suprise me!

Let's not forget he has other businesses that should be earning revenue, and when donating services write offs come to mind.       

As for your math, KTF.....mine has always been on the weak side, admittedly, but our balances are much, much lower so I've only had to comprehend interest in cents.   

[Keepthefaith]

Let's just say Louis schaeffer truly wanted to do another search.How long would it take him to come up with $1.5million dollars?Louis puts $10,000,000 in the bank with 3% interest.3% of $10,000,000 is $300,000.Correct?So,realistically,it should've taken Louis about 5/6 months to come up with $1.5 million dollars..Please correct me if my math is wrong!It wouldn't suprise me!

Let's not forget he has other businesses that should be earning revenue, and when donating services write offs come to mind.       

As for your math, KTF.....mine has always been on the weak side, admittedly, but our balances are much, much lower so I've only had to comprehend interest in cents.   

 

[Magnolia]

Kyle said: "I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains."

Kyle said: " The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water."
 

roboposter response

How massive is that trap?  How heavy?  How many would be required to lift it onto a boat, secure, and transport it into the ocean?

It is some kind of trap/cage looking thing, I am not convinced it held any human remains. 

I think it more likely, the remains are in one of the other targets Persistence did not get the opportunity to follow up on.  Or, the ocean may be a ruse and Natalee was sold.

If people think she is found, there is no reason to keep searching - that is the mistake.  No evidence she has been found.

(roboposter out)

jmho

Kyle gave the size and probable weight of the cage - easily manouvered by 2 men.

Kyle said the cage was 7.5 ft x 7.5 ft x 2 ft  I think.  I think the trap was already in the water and not
put into the water with Natalee's remains in it.   They knew the trap was there and put the remains in
it to keep the remains from floating to the surface.

I think Janet called herself "roboposter" and Whiskeygirl thought she was referring to her.

[Keepthefaith]

Where did Marcos come from?
Who sent him?
Who put him in contact with Dave & Tim?
Why did he appear when he did?
Where is he now?
Why not a peep from Dave or Tim in regards to Marcos?

Question,questions,questions...

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Tamikosmom]

While persuing the Nicaragua lead ... does anybody on this forum believe that Tim Miller did not discuss his concerns with Dave Holloway in regards to the happenings on board the Persistence ... happenings encompassing the trap cage?

Does anybody believe that Tim Miller never discussed with Kyle Kingman the events encompassing the January 7, 2009 recovery dive?

Think about it.  Tim Miller ... the liability ... who had been on board the Persistence since December 15, 2008 ... who had seen and observed all ... stepped off the Persistence on January 1, 2008 to persue a false lead with Dave Holloway one day following the ROV dive ... the ROV dive which the Arubans deemed the contents of the trap/cage.

Why was Beth Holloway kept in the dark until she was enlightened by the Natalee Freebirds informed her sometime after May, 2009?

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth. Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica (Nicaragua) IIRC.

Kermit @ scaredmonkeys.net


DATELINE NBC - FEBRUARY 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull. ... In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 02:53:44 PM »

According to Jen in an email to Klaas ...

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

Entire Email:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Tamikosmom]

SELF-EDIT

contents of the trap/cage not case related.

[Keepthefaith]

If Tim Miller left the Persistence on Jan 1st of 2008.When did Marcos come into the picture?How did this all fall into place,at just the opportune time,to remove Tim Miller from the boat?Me thinks somethin's fishy....JMOO