Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL - DAY 10 - 6/4/11

[Puzzler]

Hi Tamikosmom

Why totmom would drug Caylee, so she could just use the home pc?

The amount of cell calls, wanted to insure no one was coming home early.  Just to know the where abouts of everyone.

 

I feel she killed her the night of the 15th or morning of the 16th. There was a video or a witness one who saw her walking around her car on her phone in a hotel parking lot about 2:00 in the morning of the 16th. I have always felt George made up the story about seeing them leave that morning to cover for her.

I also think all the phone calls were to make sure they weren't coming home. She was paranoid until she could plant the body somewhere. I have always wondered if she did put her in that turtle (or something) sandbox because she would have fit there and there was a lid on it. There would have been no reason for the Anthonys to raise that lid.

Turbo - this is my theory, too.  KC killed Caylee Father's Day night or shortly after midnight the next day.  She and Cindy had a furious fight that has not come out in court.  Neighbors heard loud yelling and KC cussing at mom.  That was the day that Cindy found out from her mother that KC wrote a bad check on the nursing home checking account.  Shirley wanted to put KC in jail and Cindy talked her out of it.  This week, in one of the jail house tapes, KC kept asking how Grandma was and Cindy kept saying she's not doing well, it's hard to talk to her.  Well, Shirley was not doing well because she was upset about KC and the fraudulent check writing and Caylee being missing - not because Shirley was sick.  But that didn't come out in court.  Lee told Padillo and Jesse Grund that KC told him she and mom had a big fight and mom tried to choke her.  I use to believe that.  I no longer believe Cindy tried to choke KC.  I do think that it's possible that mom either threatened to take Caylee away from KC or mom was having too much fun with Caylee and the big fight and KC just snapped. 

That bunch of phone calls, I'm thinking, was just to "make sure" where mom and dad were because KC was planning on doing something with Caylee - like putting her into bags and then into the trunk...she didn't want anyone to catch her in the act.  The 2:00 a.m. pacing in the hotel parking lot, IMO, was pacing to figure out what to do with a dead Caylee.  She wasn't getting answers from G or C, so she kept making the calls to try to get them to answer.

I think we've pretty much figured out now that KC would leave the home and stay away until mom and day both were not there and then she'd go back home and stay until time for them to come home.  She walked in the house and unexpectedly encounterd George that day of the gas can debaucle.  That was it...George got too close to the trunk and she "literally" went to the first place she could and dumped Caylee in the swamp.  Just down the road and around the corner.  If you look at an overhead photo of Hopespring Drive, you will see that she dumpled Caylee in the very first spot available.  Couldn't get rid of her quick enough after the scare with George and the trunk.

Janet - chloroform evaporates very quickly and does not last in the system long enough to get into hair or bones.  The traces of chloroform in the "trunk" was 10,000 times higher than a normal lab sample that are used to make comparisons to and for that amount of trace to be in the car when LE tested it...says there was an enormous amount in the trunk to begin with.  It takes very little chloroform to kill an adult.  I'm not sure why the trunk was so saturated with it, but sometimes wonder if she made the chlorform in the trunk....VERY easy to make.  Maybe she spilled it or put it "all" on a rag and left it in the trunk.  Whatever, it will burn your skin, so I'm betting KC used some of Cindy's rubber gloves and KC would have had to make sure she didn't breathe it in herself, else she would pass out. 

This is terrible, but I have to say it:  that car smelled of decomp MONTHS later and no one could stand the smell, WHAT kind of creature could just drive around for days with that smell in the car?   

[KittyMom]

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206395/index.html

Mark 25:00 George talks about trading places with KC.  I'm not seeing her say 'why dont you' like other posters have seen.  Is there another point in the video where this happens?

[beth1970]

I can't understand why everyone is automatically accepting kc's date of Caylee's death as the 16th. Why would she suddenly reveal the real date among all her other lies...does not compute.

Hi MOnkeys-- 4 Donks, I don't accept it.  I think George lied about seeing them on the 16th.  I think she left in a rage on the night of the 15th after a fight with Cindy and Cindy's threatening to take Caylee.  I don't think Caylee lived long after that.

I think Cindy lied under oath last week when she claimed what a good mother Casey was.  Many people, including her own family, know that's a lie.  Even Lee admitted that Cindy said Casey was an unfit mother.  I don't see Cindy as Saint Cynthia.  She's just changed her goals.

Do you blame her?  She finally got her out of the house and could end up in a cell next to her unless she starts telling "some" truth

[Puzzler]

Hey monkeys... curious what you think about Casey getting so upset during the jailhouse video, when she claims nobody is letting her speak.  1.) if she really killed Caylee and is lying about it, what is there for her to get upset about? 2.) if Caylee really did accidentally drowned, and she refused to just admit it, what is there for her to get upset about? I mean, her lying is outrageous enough, but to then get worked up to that extreme because people are supposedly not listening to her or misconstruing everything she's saying....  it really makes no sense. It does seem that she's upset for real, not just fake tears... but why?

Do you mean this lol

I think that was the "normal" KC we were seeing - not the fraud that see let people see.  If you notice, immediately upon her fit, Cindy automatically says here's your dad.  When KC would get upset with dad, it was here's your mom.

KC ruled that house.  I used to think Cindy did.  Now I think Cindy rules George and KC ruled the house.

It's obvious, watching that interaction, that G&C has had to deal with KC's actions for a long time and they were just on automatic trying to talk to her....the one she was yelling out would "automatically and quickly" bow out and let the other one handle her.  She has tortured and abused G&C long before she killed Caylee as the ultimate torture!

It takes a deeply disturbed person to listen to her mom and dad in pure agony over losing Caylee and talking about all they're doing to try to find her and then just keep on lying to their faces.  I think that KC got immense satisfaction out of having that control over G&C.

[cubbeegirl]

Janet I thought is was Arm & Hammer laundry detergent  that they had in the back of their car?

I've always loved being here, but is there something about my posts that cause people to ignore me, that I don't realize???

Don't take it personally,AKmom.  Happens to me all the time.  In fact, recently I just hang around to read. 

there's SO much activity I've noticed if I post and it's at the "end" of a page I'm less likely to get my question answered.  Us "newbies" I'm sure I'll driving the old timers bonkers with our questions

I have been here since Natalee Holloway first went missing and my posts go unanswered all the time. Please don't take it personally. Many times people just agree with your post or don't know the answer or think someone else has already answered you. Also alot of times people are just catching up and reading from a couple of days before and are so behind that they don't answer the post. Many times when I am trying to catch up I don't respond to others post simply because I have a limited amount of time and if I start responding to posts I will never catch up. We see you.. please stick around !!!!!!
{{{{ HUGGS}}}}
Cubs

[beth1970]

Good Morning... re: the use immunity offer to KC early on. JB was the one that initiated the use immunity deal. I also didn't realize Linda Drane Burdick was Sex Crimes/Child Abuse Unit Chief.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1082457/Casey-Anthony-immunity-email

Klaas...love this 

I don't remember seeing this before Sunny, but there have been so many documents to wade through and back then my puter was a dinosoar and it took me forever to make it through everything . By the time I got through it all I had such headaches. Thank God for the new MacBook...just in time for the trial!!
Klaas... thanks for this.....
I was one of the ones who requested it last night. I was laying in bed with a migraine coming on with a washcloth over my eyes and had him on and had to get up and take more meds. He almost made me stroke out last night by making my blood pressure go up so high and my head almost exploded...

He makes me sick!!!!!!!!I am so tired of hearing him say how many mothers kill their children and what if they all got put on death row? Ok...whorealdo... how do you pick and choose which ones will get the dp and which ones will get a slap on the wrist? I say give them all the dp and maybe some of them will start thinking a little more before they kill their innocent kids....grrrrr...making my head hurt again

You could tell by the letter Linda's #1 concern was finding that baby.  Great lady IMO!

[Riley]

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206395/index.html

Mark 25:00 George talks about trading places with KC.  I'm not seeing her say 'why dont you' like other posters have seen.  Is there another point in the video where this happens?

You need to find a split screen version.  Why didn't you was what court room Casey mouthed at the camera, not ICA.

[Scatty]

what if kronk really did hear where the body was from his girlfriend who worked at the jail what if she overheard on purpose a private conversation casey had with bozo, could that blow the whole case?

Possibly, but if Bozo had a conversation that was meant to be overheard, he's just as guilty. Number one, if he knew where the body was, it was his duty as an officer of the court to give that information--privilege be damned!
Padilla tried to imply that Kronk got it from a girlfriend who got it from LE, but if LE knew, why wouldn't they look for it themselves? Why wait for all the evidence to disappear and skeletonize?
I've always had a hinky feeling about Sylvia Hernandez, that she was a shill for Bozo despite his vehement protestations to the contrary. It's possible she may have been used for more than just passing notes where KC could get her God conversations and molestations issues into evidence. She may have been a part of Padilla's "daisy chain" instead of LE.

But on the other hand, all of the above seem just so convoluted. Most likely it is what it is, Kronk found the body in August and snooped around again in December when he got the chance and found it again. Try as he might, I don't think Bozo can prove anything different.

[beth1970]

When do you guys think Baez found out Casey was really dead?

oops wishful thinking - meant CAYLEE when did he find out Caylee was dead?

As soon as KC opened her lying mouth.  No one would believe that she'd been hoebagging for 31 days as a means of searching for a missing child.

I agree but I guess I should have said "When do you think she finally TOLD him" whatever she did accident/murder?

[carpe noctem]

 




 

[cubbeegirl]

When do you guys think Baez found out Casey was really dead?

The day he met Casey and I also believe he knew exactly where Caylee was and let the world continue to look for her. 

I just don't understand how anyone, even Bozo, can defend & try to get a child killer off and not make them pay.  That speaks volumes about him.  I've gone back and forth and I really just can't wrap my mind around it.  I wouldn't put it past him - the beginning I mean & that he let her little body lay there and let C & G suffer day after day.

Bobo is unethical and immoral.. not a problem for him

I truly believe that like Casey, he has no soul...or a very black one at best...jmo

[cubbeegirl]

Good Morning... re: the use immunity offer to KC early on. JB was the one that initiated the use immunity deal. I also didn't realize Linda Drane Burdick was Sex Crimes/Child Abuse Unit Chief.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1082457/Casey-Anthony-immunity-email

Klaas...love this 

I don't remember seeing this before Sunny, but there have been so many documents to wade through and back then my puter was a dinosoar and it took me forever to make it through everything . By the time I got through it all I had such headaches. Thank God for the new MacBook...just in time for the trial!!
Klaas... thanks for this.....
I was one of the ones who requested it last night. I was laying in bed with a migraine coming on with a washcloth over my eyes and had him on and had to get up and take more meds. He almost made me stroke out last night by making my blood pressure go up so high and my head almost exploded...

He makes me sick!!!!!!!!I am so tired of hearing him say how many mothers kill their children and what if they all got put on death row? Ok...whorealdo... how do you pick and choose which ones will get the dp and which ones will get a slap on the wrist? I say give them all the dp and maybe some of them will start thinking a little more before they kill their innocent kids....grrrrr...making my head hurt again

You could tell by the letter Linda's #1 concern was finding that baby.  Great lady IMO!

She is amazing! I love the her mannerisms in court...she is my new girlcrush...

[Puzzler]

snip

I had thought that a can/package of baking powder/baking soda was one of the items found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle.  However ... I cannot locate what I considered backup.  My recollection could have been wrong.

Janet

.....................
Was in Georges testimony about the baking soda, that was in the trash bag..

Are you talking about the Arm & Hammer container?  If so, that was not baking soda, it was detergent.

[Puzzler]

Does anyone remember ? either by text or phone call? casey telling tony that taking care of caylee is like working a 8 hr shift. something to that effect?

I remember this
Casey Anthony wrote to Tony Rusciano (the cop that was fired for lying about knowing Casey)
 mission accomplished.

?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “Seriously, spending the day with Caylee is ten times more exhausing than working a twelve hour event.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “She’s coming back from Tampa. Her sister is getting married this weekeend.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “Yeah, I just called her. She’s on I-4. Good, so tha’s a plus. That it is.”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “So is she willing to get the offspring?”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Let’s, hey let’s (unintelligible) right now when it is as good as it has been. I need it, I uh, I told you I need a routine. But it’s not my main concern for seeing you,”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Once in three weeks is a tease.”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Come over and I’ll cook.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
“How? You want me to bring the little snot head?”

 

I hope this eventually comes into court.

[cubbeegirl]

snip

I had thought that a can/package of baking powder/baking soda was one of the items found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle.  However ... I cannot locate what I considered backup.  My recollection could have been wrong.

Janet

.....................
Was in Georges testimony about the baking soda, that was in the trash bag..

Are you talking about the Arm & Hammer container?  If so, that was not baking soda, it was detergent.

I thought it was the detergent as well..

[Blonde]

I've always wonder about KC's cooking up of chloroform.  Did she do this in Cindy's kitchen?  Wouldn't the house smell afterwards?  Did Cindy or George come home one day and notice a strange odor and wonder where it was coming from?  Did she use Cindy's pots and pans?  How did she safely whip up a batch of chloroform without inhaling it herself? 

I found this also 
Chloroform
      Dosage:    not known, just put a splash onto a rag
      Time:      several minutes probably
      Available: not known
      Certainty: good
      Notes:     If you tape the rag over your mouth so that you get knocked
         out, you woukd die as you continue getting the stuff into your lungs.

Why would she use a syringe when  putting a cloth to her mouth would be easier.
 Unless to frame Jessy Grund because it was his syringe Casey took from his apartment when she left the door open to take a shower.

[carpe noctem]

I've always wonder about KC's cooking up of chloroform.  Did she do this in Cindy's kitchen?  Wouldn't the house smell afterwards?  Did Cindy or George come home one day and notice a strange odor and wonder where it was coming from?  Did she use Cindy's pots and pans?  How did she safely whip up a batch of chloroform without inhaling it herself? 

I found this also 
Chloroform
      Dosage:    not known, just put a splash onto a rag
      Time:      several minutes probably
      Available: not known
      Certainty: good
      Notes:     If you tape the rag over your mouth so that you get knocked
         out, you woukd die as you continue getting the stuff into your lungs.

Why would she use a syringe when  putting a cloth to her mouth would be easier.
 Unless to frame Jessy Grund because it was his syringe Casey took from his apartment when she left the door open to take a shower.

I believe the syringe is used to poke it to the bottom - insert the tip into the pure chloroform that has concentrated, and extract it out.

[TexasBarMom]

Hi Tamikosmom

Why totmom would drug Caylee, so she could just use the home pc?

The amount of cell calls, wanted to insure no one was coming home early.  Just to know the where abouts of everyone.

 

I feel she killed her the night of the 15th or morning of the 16th. There was a video or a witness one who saw her walking around her car on her phone in a hotel parking lot about 2:00 in the morning of the 16th. I have always felt George made up the story about seeing them leave that morning to cover for her.

I also think all the phone calls were to make sure they weren't coming home. She was paranoid until she could plant the body somewhere. I have always wondered if she did put her in that turtle (or something) sandbox because she would have fit there and there was a lid on it. There would have been no reason for the Anthonys to raise that lid.

Turbo - this is my theory, too.  KC killed Caylee Father's Day night or shortly after midnight the next day.  She and Cindy had a furious fight that has not come out in court.  Neighbors heard loud yelling and KC cussing at mom.  That was the day that Cindy found out from her mother that KC wrote a bad check on the nursing home checking account.  Shirley wanted to put KC in jail and Cindy talked her out of it.  This week, in one of the jail house tapes, KC kept asking how Grandma was and Cindy kept saying she's not doing well, it's hard to talk to her.  Well, Shirley was not doing well because she was upset about KC and the fraudulent check writing and Caylee being missing - not because Shirley was sick.  But that didn't come out in court.  Lee told Padillo and Jesse Grund that KC told him she and mom had a big fight and mom tried to choke her.  I use to believe that.  I no longer believe Cindy tried to choke KC.  I do think that it's possible that mom either threatened to take Caylee away from KC or mom was having too much fun with Caylee and the big fight and KC just snapped. 

That bunch of phone calls, I'm thinking, was just to "make sure" where mom and dad were because KC was planning on doing something with Caylee - like putting her into bags and then into the trunk...she didn't want anyone to catch her in the act.  The 2:00 a.m. pacing in the hotel parking lot, IMO, was pacing to figure out what to do with a dead Caylee.  She wasn't getting answers from G or C, so she kept making the calls to try to get them to answer.

I think we've pretty much figured out now that KC would leave the home and stay away until mom and day both were not there and then she'd go back home and stay until time for them to come home.  She walked in the house and unexpectedly encounterd George that day of the gas can debaucle.  That was it...George got too close to the trunk and she "literally" went to the first place she could and dumped Caylee in the swamp.  Just down the road and around the corner.  If you look at an overhead photo of Hopespring Drive, you will see that she dumpled Caylee in the very first spot available.  Couldn't get rid of her quick enough after the scare with George and the trunk.

Janet - chloroform evaporates very quickly and does not last in the system long enough to get into hair or bones.  The traces of chloroform in the "trunk" was 10,000 times higher than a normal lab sample that are used to make comparisons to and for that amount of trace to be in the car when LE tested it...says there was an enormous amount in the trunk to begin with.  It takes very little chloroform to kill an adult.  I'm not sure why the trunk was so saturated with it, but sometimes wonder if she made the chlorform in the trunk....VERY easy to make.  Maybe she spilled it or put it "all" on a rag and left it in the trunk.  Whatever, it will burn your skin, so I'm betting KC used some of Cindy's rubber gloves and KC would have had to make sure she didn't breathe it in herself, else she would pass out. 

This is terrible, but I have to say it:  that car smelled of decomp MONTHS later and no one could stand the smell, WHAT kind of creature could just drive around for days with that smell in the car?   

I think you are spot on!  I think you should email this to the prosecution! lol

[flamom]

I've always wonder about KC's cooking up of chloroform.  Did she do this in Cindy's kitchen?  Wouldn't the house smell afterwards?  Did Cindy or George come home one day and notice a strange odor and wonder where it was coming from?  Did she use Cindy's pots and pans?  How did she safely whip up a batch of chloroform without inhaling it herself? 

I found this also 
Chloroform
      Dosage:    not known, just put a splash onto a rag
      Time:      several minutes probably
      Available: not known
      Certainty: good
      Notes:     If you tape the rag over your mouth so that you get knocked
         out, you woukd die as you continue getting the stuff into your lungs.

Why would she use a syringe when  putting a cloth to her mouth would be easier.
 Unless to frame Jessy Grund because it was his syringe Casey took from his apartment when she left the door open to take a shower.

was it Jessie's syringe? did they do touch DNA on it? 

[Scatty]

I can't understand why everyone is automatically accepting kc's date of Caylee's death as the 16th. Why would she suddenly reveal the real date among all her other lies...does not compute.

Hi MOnkeys-- 4 Donks, I don't accept it.  I think George lied about seeing them on the 16th.  I think she left in a rage on the night of the 15th after a fight with Cindy and Cindy's threatening to take Caylee.  I don't think Caylee lived long after that.

I think Cindy lied under oath last week when she claimed what a good mother Casey was.  Many people, including her own family, know that's a lie.  Even Lee admitted that Cindy said Casey was an unfit mother.  I don't see Cindy as Saint Cynthia.  She's just changed her goals.

Babybear, I too think George lied about the 16th.  And I still do not trust the Anthonys.  I felt the real pain of CA and GA when they were on the stand, but that does not change my opinion of them.

ITA with everything posted above 

Me too!   

There's something about George's narratives that remind me a lot of Casey's. I think it's quite possible he helped cover for her after discovering what she had done somewhere around June 24th. The defense is coming up with a grain of truth. This coverup is being used to make it seem as if it was a coverup of an accident on the 16th. That's baloney. That date came into play for some reason when he realized he had to cover up a murder although he never wanted to voice that opinion out loud. He even may have told River it was an "accident" that snowballed in an effort to convince himself. The Anthonys all have a habit of doing that.