Lively Case Discussion #509 8/9 - 8/10/2006

[Shell]

Why tell the "fingering" story? To explain any bodily fluids in the car? To explain and signs of penetration in the event her body happened to be found?

Just to think that that occurred to an intoxicated young lady, makes my blood boil. That alone, which they all admited to, is an offense.

[Ono]

And is it true that American mechanic who was found dead stuffed in crate (?) worked at this place: Automotive Enterprises?

I thought this guy was a mechanic for the Harley Davidson dealership but dont take that as gospel.

re - reading it, it was a shop that repairs Harleys... big diff... but we still don't know if it was automotive enterprises or not.

Could the Harley shop be opposite the Automotive Enterprises place and Benson saw something suspicious going on over there ???  Maybe Tyler caught on to something and maybe Natalee was wrapped up in the carpet  after carpet was removed ??

[Shell]

Let's assume D needed to do a quickie recarpeting of his car. Surely there can't be that many places on an Island that size to even buy some suitable for a car and then glue it down. Easy enough for ALE to check into. Why did DK offer that information?

[Ono]

From DK's 6/13/05 statement:

On Friday two weeks ago he had arainged a lawyer for us.  

For what it is worth, the meeting with Nadira and Paulus and "family" and this day Paulus arranged for the Kalpoes to have a lawyer was Friday June 3rd.

They hopped right on it.

[Ono]

And what Arlene's ARROGANT SELF did not understand is that we Americans aren't stupid.  We might not have understood their "system" before but we sure caught on... it's the old "buddy buddy" system.

She taught us well and wouldn't it be ironic if her own nightly briefings on how Aruban Law works is what finally fries these aholes?  (i.e. witnesses cannot lie)  Frankly I don't care if they go to jail for simply lying.. they shouldn't be walking the streets and getting paid money for being arrested.

That's what Joran said kept him in jail all summer.  I think it was in the ACA interview that he said he deserved to spend the summer in jail because he lied.

He was hiding from Natalee's family.

[Kat_Gram]

From DK's 6/13/05 statement:

On Friday two weeks ago he had arainged a lawyer for us.  

For what it is worth, the meeting with Nadira and Paulus and "family" and this day Paulus arranged for the Kalpoes to have a lawyer was Friday June 3rd.

They hopped right on it.

And they ALL went, both families on Saturday, June 4, 2005. That was before the guards were arrested.
How many times did Deeepak call the Sloots ( Joran ) to find out of the Dad had any information ? He was not looking for information on Natalee, but rather what information did Paulus have ? ( As in what did the police have ? )

[Anna]

No mention anywhere I know of as to what, if any porn was seized when ALE did sweeps of the 3 amigos homes. I would love to know if they found any "homemade" films. I assume the 3 amigos are in the habit of popping in a porn film, and base that on the picture we have of them in the car with apparently a porn film on the dvd, and Deepak stated they popped one in with Natalee.

Hi, Shell,
I posted an old article I found today saying Paulus gave the porn DVD Joran showed to the reporter in The Netherlands to Joran.  Said it would help Joran stay awake in class.  Should be on this thread or the last of the one before.

So not only do the parents approve of the son watching porn despite the known consequences, they give him a DVD of it??  At least Paulus did according to that article.

.

[igsigs]

No mention anywhere I know of as to what, if any porn was seized when ALE did sweeps of the 3 amigos homes. I would love to know if they found any "homemade" films. I assume the 3 amigos are in the habit of popping in a porn film, and base that on the picture we have of them in the car with apparently a porn film on the dvd, and Deepak stated they popped one in with Natalee.

Native Lingo said porn was found during the search of Joran's appt.

She was a good source.

[cubbeegirl]

Good Evening Monkeys! Just got caught up after server being down due to some very bad weather and open house at sons school. I so appreciate all the work that has been put into the statements.....

Thanks klaas and red!

[Tylergal]

We have a loss of time with Deepak stories.  
We have him waiting on a call from Joran which he should not wait for.
We have Joran calling him but he did not answer the call.
We have text messages.
We have an 8+ minute phone call that is not explained.
We have one car with tinted windows, one without.
We have a car with chocolate and no evidence Natalee ever existed there.
We have a white car following them and a white car later seen.
We have Joran mentioning emptying a cup.
Deepak mentions throwing cups out.
We have Paulus calling Joran before the Twittys arrive at their house.
We have Joran telling Deepak a story they will tell and stick to it.
Deepak meets with Wever, Joran, et al while gambing.
They leave one gambling joint for another.
Deepak urinates far too much.
There are ants in the car.
The car is seen going toward Montaja (Is this true? I am beginning to question that statement, not because AG said it but her source cold be ?
We have them admitting to putting a porn video in and Natalee in the car.
They were trying to recruit a girl to to with them to meet these girls? why?
We have all "that shit" they are going to find if they find the girl.
We have questions about carpeting in a car.
Was a stereo taken out of one car and put into another?
Chocolate could be coke in the car both come from cacco bean.

[Anna]

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.

I remember some were looking into Posner's background.  He was raised around the Chicago area and his family still lives there.  On an internet search, he was sent to Aruba to look after the mafia's gambling interests there.  He bought his first casino on Curacao.  He was involved in prostitution in Chicago.  He did spend time in prison too but I don't know what the exactly conviction was for.

Bumper,

Welcome!  Any help is setting the record straight on this is soooo appreciated.  Like Ms Marple said I even have hopes of it snowballing into at least a travel advisory as they deceive with false statistics and claim far fewer crimes than are reported all over their newspapers replete with lurid photos.

Posner was convicted under the RICCO act which is basically racketeering which includes a large number of illegal activities.  He was one of the Chicago mob bosses in its heyday when things like Murder Mansion were taking place, a place the owners were found murdered because the mob wanted their house and executions were carried out there later.  The whole mob was called The Good Ship Lollipop and I forget why right now but it was a crime infested lot and took tremendous effort to clean up.

I will post a little on Posner if I can find it.

Yes, USAToday has done a dreadful disservice to travelers and I have to wonder if they have an angle to this.  Has the Aruban tourist industry bought huge amounts of ads from them or something?

.

[Tylergal]

I am also going to send him a little background on one of Aruba's most upstanding citizens, Michael Posner, as well.

I remember some were looking into Posner's background.  He was raised around the Chicago area and his family still lives there.  On an internet search, he was sent to Aruba to look after the mafia's gambling interests there.  He bought his first casino on Curacao.  He was involved in prostitution in Chicago.  He did spend time in prison too but I don't know what the exactly conviction was for.

Bumper,

Welcome!  Any help is setting the record straight on this is soooo appreciated.  Like Ms Marple said I even have hopes of it snowballing into at least a travel advisory as they deceive with false statistics and claim far fewer crimes than are reported all over their newspapers replete with lurid photos.

Posner was convicted under the RICCO act which is basically racketeering which includes a large number of illegal activities.  He was one of the Chicago mob bosses in its heyday when things like Murder Mansion were taking place, a place the owners were found murdered because the mob wanted their house and executions were carried out there later.  The whole mob was called The Good Ship Lollipop and I forget why right now but it was a crime infested lot and took tremendous effort to clean up.

I will post a little on Posner if I can find it.

Yes, USAToday has done a dreadful disservice to travelers and I have to wonder if they have an angle to this.  Has the Aruban tourist industry bought huge amounts of ads from them or something?

.

That was right, Anna.  Like Dillinger, they could not get him on anything else so they got him on the RICCO act.  There was plenty more, but that was what they could "clearly" prosecute him under, racateering.

[Anna]

.
If the internal links work on this, you should be able to click on Posner's name and go to a site that explains more about his nefarious dealings.  Did he go to Aruba where online porn is legal as is gambling both in the casino and online for he is one of the first to go online and remains one of the largest.


Monday, October 17, 2005
Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino
DIARIO Aruba
10/17/2005

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.

[translated by Getagrip]


// posted by Getagrip @ 10/17/2005 09:43:00 PM

[Tylergal]

ILLEGAL

It is illegal to reprint this article or post on the internet, so I recommend you all go here and read it.  

http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

[Anna]

The Posner link did not work so here is where it would have taken you if it had worked:

http://www.ipsn.org/lolli1.html

Remember that he actually served eight years of a ten year sentence which is pretty good for mobsters as they always get away with so much.

He has definitely been linked to online gambling and his organization is rated a Class C which is not very good.  Not sure why, maybe they cheat.  And are sanctioned by some horse-racing organizations, too.  Sounds like he still likes to turn a fast and crooked dollar and who is going to challenge him on it? Why did he pick Aruba?  Could it be because it was just so ready to go along with graft and corruption and he knew anything goes there?

.

[Anna]

.
I have never started a thread for anything but think I may try to start one for the murder count in Aruba.  I think this is important for we need this for more than the USAToday man.

We need it for compare and contrast what actually happens versus what is reported for our own Departments of State and Justice and to have to send to our Senators and Congressmen and Condi and everybody else to prove that they are being deceitful about the crime rate on that island.

Travel Industry needs to know that this low murder rate is a joke and it is on THEM!  

.

[Tylergal]

If you notice, the RU posters like to bring up Jossy's connections to crime.  It was cigarettes.  Posner makes Jossy look like a case of kindergarten play.

Jossy's family members, and Jossy may not have even been involved, was not involved with the same level of crime as Posner.  Two way different

[Anna]

.
Well, Tyler,

Did we chase everybody away??  

[Tylergal]

I guess so.    I have things to do so I will BBL.

[Ono]

From DK's 6/13/05 statement:

On Friday two weeks ago he had arainged a lawyer for us.  

For what it is worth, the meeting with Nadira and Paulus and "family" and this day Paulus arranged for the Kalpoes to have a lawyer was Friday June 3rd.

They hopped right on it.

And they ALL went, both families on Saturday, June 4, 2005. That was before the guards were arrested.
How many times did Deeepak call the Sloots ( Joran ) to find out of the Dad had any information ? He was not looking for information on Natalee, but rather what information did Paulus have ? ( As in what did the police have ? )

It just all screams guilt like wildfire.  This is so frustrating...not one single person involved has a conscience. Not one.