Lively Case Discussion #661 7/20 - 7/21/2007

[Anna]

Is this Sander and Kawish??

http://www.magic965.com/gallery/albums/JUL2007/180707%20LADIES%20NITE/Carlos_%2850%29.jpg

It looks like them to me.

Nope, can't be as I have it on authority of poster who said he knew where they were and Sander is in or near Fyffe, Alabama.

 

[Easywriter]

My cat thinks Joran is a lying POS and guilty as hell!  I told her to calm down, but then she started in on Hillary Clinton.  What's a guy to do?

[Easywriter]

Is'nt International Waters now 12 miles offshore?  It used to be 3 but they changed it in the 1980's, I think.

12 seems to be the most common, but it varies from country to country.  Anything from 3 nautical miles to 200 nautical miles.

12 miles is a long way off no?? I would imagine the hot area to look is less than 12 miles..Am I correct??

I think where ever the depth drops.  Dompig or someone said about 3-5 miles out.

[Kat_Gram]

Who wants to talk about cats

I do.    
As long as it doesn't get too gross like hair ball presents my kats leave around here in hard to get to places for Mommy to find.

[Easywriter]

I hate to guess on an issue as important as the search for Natalee and TES, but it prolly started with the requests for permits being denied all over again. Just like the last time.

Do they need permits to be in international waters?  How far out do they have to be to not be in Aruba's waters?

So if TES accidently drifts into Aruban waters, what Aruba gonna do, send out it's navy    

Aruban navy = Dennis Jacobs in a huge innertube!

  LOL!!!
Hi Monkies
I'm just lurking and reading and cracked up over this above.
I was so pissed yesterday to hear what went on on Bill's show....but came here and all was better.Thank you all for that.You're like the calm after the storms.

Hello!  Quiet in here today, but it will heat up about the time Geraldo comes on tonight. lol

[Observer]

Is'nt International Waters now 12 miles offshore?  It used to be 3 but they changed it in the 1980's, I think.

12 seems to be the most common, but it varies from country to country.  Anything from 3 nautical miles to 200 nautical miles.

12 miles is a long way off no?? I would imagine the hot area to look is less than 12 miles..Am I correct??

I think where ever the depth drops.  Dompig or someone said about 3-5 miles out.

12 miles cant be right for international waters because venezuela is 15 miles out in that direction.

[Observer]

Am having trouble copying and pasting article but Ill give the translation if anyone else canbringit up .  its in todays diario under localnews at bottomof page.  % arrested for Human traficing " loverboy style"  wasnt Joran associated with pimping this way?.

Hi Sandy..Here is that article translated with the online translater..

5 person deteni for traficacion of person oranjestad(aan): recientemente at the netherlands, 5 person of zwolle y kampen of 18 for 25 year, owing to wordo deteni on suspicion of traficacion of person. three muher owing to wordo push in prostitucion for her are here, cu owing to employ the so calling “metodo lover boy”. the sospechosonan principal of 19 year, is deteni still. the victimanan of 16, 18 y 20 year, is of vecindario of zwolle. one of they was trahando because; “prostituta of bentana”, while cu one of the others was work because; escort. according one vocero of police, the muhernan owing to work lunanan largo for her “loverboys”. the caso owing to arrive at conocimento of autoridadnan hour cu owing to try busca one caminda at amsterdam, for her child muher of 18 year work because; prostituta. the person cu is huur the sort of cambernan here owing to alerta police, because the was achieve cu the child muher was seems much jong y cu was show cu the child muher owing to wordo forza for make the trabao here. diahuebs police owing to detene 3 person of rumania at zandvoort y bentveld, sospecha of traficacion of person y forza person bay in prostitucion. after of the detencionnan here, police owing to succeed libera 3 muher of rumania of edad 17, 18 y 32, for of hand of the traficantenan here of person.

[San]

Am having trouble copying and pasting article but Ill give the translation if anyone else canbringit up .  its in todays diario under localnews at bottomof page.  % arrested for Human traficing " loverboy style"  wasnt Joran associated with pimping this way?.

Is this the article Sandy?

5 PERSONA DETENI PA TRAFICACION DI HENDE
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN): Recientemente na Hulanda, 5 persona di Zwolle y Kampen di 18 pa 25 aña, a wordo deteni riba sospecho di traficacion di hende. Tres muher a wordo pusha den prostitucion pa e grupo aki, cu a uza e asina yama “metodo Lover boy”.

E sospechosonan principal di 19 aña, ta deteni ainda. E victimanan di 16, 18 y 20 aña, ta di vecindario di Zwolle. Un di nan tabata trahando como “prostituta di bentana”, mientras cu un di e otronan tabata traha como escort.

Segun un vocero di polis, e muhernan a traha lunanan largo pa e “loverboys”. E caso a yega na conocimento di autoridadnan ora cu a purba busca un caminda na Amsterdam, pa e mucha muher di 18 aña traha como prostituta.

E persona cu ta huur e sorto di cambernan aki a alerta polis, pasobra e tabata haya cu e mucha muher tabata parce hopi jong y cu tabata mustra cu e mucha muher a wordo forza pa hasi e trabao aki.

Diahuebs polis a detene 3 persona di Rumania na Zandvoort y Bentveld, sospecha di traficacion di hende y forza hende bay den prostitucion. Despues di e detencionnan aki, polis a logra libera 3 muher di Rumania di edad 17, 18 y 32, for di man di e traficantenan aki di hende.

[Observer]

Anna,

That looks like a pic od Sander and Kawish to me..Maybee Sander is on vacation in Aruba??

[Easywriter]

Is'nt International Waters now 12 miles offshore?  It used to be 3 but they changed it in the 1980's, I think.

12 seems to be the most common, but it varies from country to country.  Anything from 3 nautical miles to 200 nautical miles.

12 miles is a long way off no?? I would imagine the hot area to look is less than 12 miles..Am I correct??

I think where ever the depth drops.  Dompig or someone said about 3-5 miles out.

12 miles cant be right for international waters because venezuela is 15 miles out in that direction.

Not sure how that works.  Wish someone that knew for sure would tell us.

[cubbeegirl]

Good Afternoon monkeys! Been lurking and reading trying to catch up when I can and just wanted to say hi to all....

The BOR and Geraldo crap has got me in an uproar. I pray that TES will find something...

Love you all!!!!

Hey cubbee good to see you.

Good to see you too San! Hope you are doing well....

[Kat_Gram]

Sander is pretty young. Would be on school vacation now.
ps my Kats do not like Sander also, along with the rest of the pimp boys.
They would hiss and attack these boys and they can be feral kats when they encounter people who are bad bad bad.
I am going to make sure that I come back here after Faux network interviews Dave. I used to like Geraldo, but I got over that one.

[Nut44x4]

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=42115
it is in English on this site I posted this morning....Human traffic/Netherlands

[Spock]

I think they have a real good chance of finding something.  How long do most think the search will last?  Or how much area can be covered in a day?

I read that it takes 2-3 days to search 1 square mile, it could take several months to scan 50-100 square miles. It's a huge task.

I'm sure it is a very huge task.  Will they troll over the area and look for sonar pings then drop the heavy equipment?  The only thing similar I have seen was a documentary on a search for a sunken ship.  They would locate areas of interest from the surface, mark it and then begin the deep water search.

There is also commercial fishing in the area, so I expect the bottom is cluttered with old fish nets, buoys, and traps.

If someone going to dispose of a body and the average boat makes about 25 mph, why would they only go out 3-5 miles?  If someone wanted to hide something they would go out 10 miles or so, where the logistics of searching would be insurmountable.

[Rob]

I'd like to hear more about attempts to stop TES also.  This is starting to sound more like the same old BS dating back to the 1st time they stepped foot on the island and the locals were throwing rocks at them while they were trying to dive.

This stuff is infuriating and needs more attention.

Blah, some people have nothing better to do with their time than be a nusance. As they say, every one serves a purpose in life. Some are just meant to be bad examples.

Its one thing to have a cause, which is commendable. Its another thing to just be against someone else's cause. If that is what one stands for and rests on then thats pretty pathetic.

Of course there are those that did not want the truth to come out with NH. That has been obvious foe some time by the hurdles and obstruction that has been put forth since the out set.

What is most telling is that since we started covering NH some 2+ years ago, we have posted on and commented on 100's of other missing persons cases. How many have been solved in hours, days and weeks?

However, when it comes to Aruba, all common sense about MP is supposed to be thrown out th window. All lies of suspects are supposed to be forgotten as they were scared. GUILTY PEOPLE USUALLY ARE.

There are so many cases that compare to NH that have been investigated since ... However, when we are obstructed, it makes the outcome and the searching quite a different story.

Exactly Red.  Joe T. has stated this numerous times on TV that Joran was a 17 year old boy and he was scared so were are suppose to forget what he did and all would be forgiven.  That doesn't work in my book.  You do the crime you do the time.

I can think of someone else who was scared. Prolly scared to death.

Red thanks for the update.

[Observer]

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=42115
it is in English on this site I posted this morning....Human traffic/Netherlands

Joran used a screen name loverboy but there has been no connection with him involved in human trafficking. There has been a connection with him drugging and raping though.

[San]

I think they have a real good chance of finding something.  How long do most think the search will last?  Or how much area can be covered in a day?

I read that it takes 2-3 days to search 1 square mile, it could take several months to scan 50-100 square miles. It's a huge task.

I'm sure it is a very huge task.  Will they troll over the area and look for sonar pings then drop the heavy equipment?  The only thing similar I have seen was a documentary on a search for a sunken ship.  They would locate areas of interest from the surface, mark it and then begin the deep water search.

There is also commercial fishing in the area, so I expect the bottom is cluttered with old fish nets, buoys, and traps.

If someone going to dispose of a body and the average boat makes about 25 mph, why would they only go out 3-5 miles?  If someone wanted to hide something they would go out 10 miles or so, where the logistics of searching would be insurmountable.

I agree that they would go out further not to risk anything washing ashore.  Maybe this is their big mistake.

[Observer]

I think they have a real good chance of finding something.  How long do most think the search will last?  Or how much area can be covered in a day?

I read that it takes 2-3 days to search 1 square mile, it could take several months to scan 50-100 square miles. It's a huge task.

I'm sure it is a very huge task.  Will they troll over the area and look for sonar pings then drop the heavy equipment?  The only thing similar I have seen was a documentary on a search for a sunken ship.  They would locate areas of interest from the surface, mark it and then begin the deep water search.

There is also commercial fishing in the area, so I expect the bottom is cluttered with old fish nets, buoys, and traps.

If someone going to dispose of a body and the average boat makes about 25 mph, why would they only go out 3-5 miles?  If someone wanted to hide something they would go out 10 miles or so, where the logistics of searching would be insurmountable.

Because the possibilty that it was done by amateurs using Koen's boat or Lorenzos. At the time they may have thought 3-5 miles was sufficient.

[Rob]

Who wants to talk about cats

Me!  

he he he . . . . . . snicker . . . . snicker . . . . snicker . . . .  

[robots]

I think they have a real good chance of finding something.  How long do most think the search will last?  Or how much area can be covered in a day?

I read that it takes 2-3 days to search 1 square mile, it could take several months to scan 50-100 square miles. It's a huge task.

I'm sure it is a very huge task.  Will they troll over the area and look for sonar pings then drop the heavy equipment?  The only thing similar I have seen was a documentary on a search for a sunken ship.  They would locate areas of interest from the surface, mark it and then begin the deep water search.

There is also commercial fishing in the area, so I expect the bottom is cluttered with old fish nets, buoys, and traps.

If someone going to dispose of a body and the average boat makes about 25 mph, why would they only go out 3-5 miles?  If someone wanted to hide something they would go out 10 miles or so, where the logistics of searching would be insurmountable.

yes, i agree