Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[Leslie]

Casino Video:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1648336

[crazybabyborg]

I'm going to go wash the cobwebs out of my head.
Hiya' Whyte! I miss Tink, too. I hope the avatars will be back soon.

Easy............I, too, would like to know about Joran's summer job on Aruba. It surprises me he would choose to come back, but maybe it's cheaper on his parents to house him at home. I wonder who would hire him.
They could always hire him out in a freak show.

Have a great one, Monkeys!

[Shizaru]

I go back and forth but right now I am leaning toward 2K telling the truth that they actually went to the lighthouse not Joran's house.  In Deepak's June 9 statement he said they turned left off LG Smith toward Choose A Name, if they were going to Joran's house they would have just kept going in that direction.  However Deepak said they then circled around to get back on the main road, and that at 1:20 when they passed back thru the intersection where they encountered the MB kids before, the MB kids were no longer there.  How did he know they weren't still there unless he did turn around, and why take the chance of being contradicted on that by the MB kids, when he didn't need to say they turned around to go to the lighthouse, he could have just said they got back on the main road somewhere past Choose A Name.  There are other little things too, like Deepak saying Satish put in the porno when they reached La Cabana, La Cabana is on the main road, they wouldn't pass it going to Joran's house.  And in one of the statements Art Wood gave to the NE it said one of the suspects got out to relieve themselves at Arashi beach (contradicting Deepak's original statement hat they didn't stop), was that said in case someone saw the car parked.  Joran first mentioned stopping at his house in order to incriminate 2K, as part of his 2nd story, that 2K droped him off at his house and drove off with Nat.  Maybe even after he changed his story to agree with 2K on the M beach dropoff, he just decided to stick with saying they went to his house for some reason, perhaps because he didn't want to admit lying about that, and to counter the idea that Nat thought he was staying at the HI.  

If they did take Nat to the lighthouse/Arashi beach, whatever happened there Nat had to still be alive when she left, because it's not plausable that Deepak would have been home chatting on his computer just minutes after witnessing her death.  Unless Deepak went home leaving her alive with Joran and/or Satish on Arashi beach, but that doesn't make much sense.

[mishy]

The main residence and the other bedrooms are closer to the monkey cage then Joran's apartment.  Did Natalee manage to grab someones cell phone (sanders?) while trying to escape from their property and run to the neighbors property.  Was she possibly hiding near the monkey cage when the call was made.  They were looking for her and realized she had a phone in her hands and had gotten a call off.

Or they went into the house and left her in the car (she refused to get out)...she grabbed Sander's cell phone (plugged into charge in car) and then ran to neighbors...

It certainly makes sense it could have been Sander's phone...especially since it 'magically' disappeared during time frame!

Wonder if it was destroyed in the early cover up...

[Sleuth]

......attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

   

I've heard about putting lipstick on a pig, but the silk purse is new to me  

[mishy]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

I think we have a couple.  Linda ?

I hear Joran is back in Aruba for the summer and has a summer job.  I would like to know more about that.

Joran has a job?      

[oldfart]

Morning all ...

Have not had time to listen to the PodCast but have read the transcript.
Just making a qucik post & go  (sorry)

I was sure hoping Dana & Art could have confirmed one way or the
other  who was staying in the JVDS house hold  Sunday / Monday.

IF younger brother(s) were home... to me less chance of cover-up activities occuring there yet makes you question Monday night. when police arrive and Papa heads out with ALE to the casino.
Did anyone see people peeking out the windows when police were talking in the front yard with MB group?
JMO  of course

Sorry for the post & run...   catch ya later
SeeeeeYaaaaByeeeeeeeee

[Leslie]

Does Paul have a job?

[klaasend]

Where's Red and Tom?

Around....Tom very seldom posts (but I love it when he does - love your sense of humor, Tom).

I chatted with Red for a bit yesterday - he had a "honey do" list that he needed to work on.  I told him to say hi from me to the honey with the "do list"    

I chatted with Red this morning - yes he has a honey do list.  He's painting today

[klaasend]

Does Paul have a job?

Paulus?  YES he works for the same Law firm now as Joran's lawyer Carlos.

[Ono]

The main residence and the other bedrooms are closer to the monkey cage then Joran's apartment.  Did Natalee manage to grab someones cell phone (sanders?) while trying to escape from their property and run to the neighbors property.  Was she possibly hiding near the monkey cage when the call was made.  They were looking for her and realized she had a phone in her hands and had gotten a call off.

Or they went into the house and left her in the car (she refused to get out)...she grabbed Sander's cell phone (plugged into charge in car) and then ran to neighbors...

It certainly makes sense it could have been Sander's phone...especially since it 'magically' disappeared during time frame!

Wonder if it was destroyed in the early cover up...

I wouldn't doubt it.

Going back over the articles Klass found last night, the coverup confab 'around the pool' (Deepak told Mickey about) to get their stories straight, had to have happened pretty early in the game, as by 31 May, Paulus is pretending to Headmaster Werner that the HI tape wasn't functioning.

[klaasend]

Does Paul have a job?

Paulus?  YES he works for the same Law firm now as Joran's lawyer Carlos.

[Kat_Gram]

I'm going to go wash the cobwebs out of my head.
Hiya' Whyte! I miss Tink, too. I hope the avatars will be back soon.

Easy............I, too, would like to know about Joran's summer job on Aruba. It surprises me he would choose to come back, but maybe it's cheaper on his parents to house him at home. I wonder who would hire him.
They could always hire him out in a freak show.

Have a great one, Monkeys!

Maybe he's working for Paulus in the law office. I can't see him working at much else there. In the public eye all day ? No way, unless you were planning on burning your business down next.
The girl was a blonde, I believe from Holland.

[Easywriter]

I'm going to go wash the cobwebs out of my head.
Hiya' Whyte! I miss Tink, too. I hope the avatars will be back soon.

Easy............I, too, would like to know about Joran's summer job on Aruba. It surprises me he would choose to come back, but maybe it's cheaper on his parents to house him at home. I wonder who would hire him.
They could always hire him out in a freak show.

Have a great one, Monkeys!

Well, if he has a job at any familiar locations, it might be very telling.

[Ono]

......attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

   

I've heard about putting lipstick on a pig, but the silk purse is new to me  

That's an old one!

[klaasend]

Just posted by ******* in the front page area:

For me the big picture is becoming clearer.Art mentioned that Sander Gottenbos had his cell phone stolen the same day natalee went missing.Natalee got off 2 calls that morning on someones cell phone.”I dont know these people”was one of the reported messages she left.His cell phone was tossed for 1 of 2 reasons.1.To make sure that call wasnt placed back to him.2.Natalee was already injured and there was blood all over that cell phone.

It was probably a prepaid phone and couldnt be traced back to anyone with the exception of looking at phone records.That has probably been destroyed or tampered with anyways.

It looks to me that after being seen by the gardner they hooked up with the Gottenbos and most likely freddy since he said he spent the night at the VDS house and immediately left aruba after his arrest.She was most likely was in the company of all these “pimps”.Paulus most likely picked up freddy and joran at 4am that morning after dumping natalee in a temporary place.

Deepak and Satish must of got the hell out of there after being seen at 2.30am and Immediately started cleaning the car as the rest of the pimps disposed of natalee.They knew plenty of witnesses saw natalee leave in deepaks car.Apparently the first thing they did after dropping Natalee and Joran off was clean the car.She had to be already Injured at 2.30 or shortly there after.Was she injured in that car or just placed in there after being injured?

Its not just the Van der sloots they are protecting but also another wealthy and politically strong family the Goettenbos.They did a damn good job to make sure nothing was ever leaked about Freddy or the Goettenbos.They kept the focus off of them and Koen wasnt even questioned once!!

The big question remains what happened between 2.30 and 4am?Were the Kalpoes already home and cleaning there vehicle when natalee made that phone call?Why get together with Koen and Sander if natalee wasnt dead yet to use their boat?

[Sleuth]

Lisa from St. Louis (sorry lost your nic in the thread change) wrote:
if there is "some" truth in every story..could she have hit her head on Joran's pool? In order to hear monkey screech would they have had to have been outside? So she hits her head while swimming...but not at beach!! Where are you going to hit your head at a beach?

There are small cove type beaches in that area, so there would be rocks along the edges....I'll grab a photo example and post in a sec...

Sorry for the delay - I got sidetracked by some old interesting front page blogs....

Here is an example photo of Malmok Beach.  This beach is the one that is really close (less than a mile) from the Koen family residence..

[Nut44x4]

Does Paul have a job?

I am intrigued that you call him Paul. I have read many threads here and in other places that call him Paulus.......PLUS, if I remember correctly, there was a video somewhere of even Anita calling him Paulus'....not Paul. I am sure Klaas has that on file. Then recently I read that his name is not paulus, and that he should be called paul. NOT that this info is important in anyway........but it is interesting. I DO REMEMBER in one interview that even ANITA called him PAULUS.....not paul....anyone else remember that??

[Ono]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

I think we have a couple.  Linda ?

I hear Joran is back in Aruba for the summer and has a summer job.  I would like to know more about that.

Joran has a job?      

  Can you imagine what it must be? LOL! Maybe sorting case files in Papa's office? Testing condoms perhaps?

[Kat_Gram]

I go back and forth but right now I am leaning toward 2K telling the truth that they actually went to the lighthouse not Joran's house.  In Deepak's June 9 statement he said they turned left off LG Smith toward Choose A Name, if they were going to Joran's house they would have just kept going in that direction.  However Deepak said they then circled around to get back on the main road, and that at 1:20 when they passed back thru the intersection where they encountered the MB kids before, the MB kids were no longer there.  How did he know they weren't still there unless he did turn around, and why take the chance of being contradicted on that by the MB kids, when he didn't need to say they turned around to go to the lighthouse, he could have just said they got back on the main road somewhere past Choose A Name.  There are other little things too, like Deepak saying Satish put in the porno when they reached La Cabana, La Cabana is on the main road, they wouldn't pass it going to Joran's house.  And in one of the statements Art Wood gave to the NE it said one of the suspects got out to relieve themselves at Arashi beach (contradicting Deepak's original statement hat they didn't stop), was that said in case someone saw the car parked.  Joran first mentioned stopping at his house in order to incriminate 2K, as part of his 2nd story, that 2K droped him off at his house and drove off with Nat.  Maybe even after he changed his story to agree with 2K on the M beach dropoff, he just decided to stick with saying they went to his house for some reason, perhaps because he didn't want to admit lying about that, and to counter the idea that Nat thought he was staying at the HI.  

If they did take Nat to the lighthouse/Arashi beach, whatever happened there Nat had to still be alive when she left, because it's not plausable that Deepak would have been home chatting on his computer just minutes after witnessing her death.  Unless Deepak went home leaving her alive with Joran and/or Satish on Arashi beach, but that doesn't make much sense.

..
Over at BFN, there is the English translation of the Dutch version of AMW, the show that Holland did. In the show, they did mention going to the lighthouse. Deepak said, I guess in one of his statements that they stopped the car at Arashi Beach on the way back from the lighthouse as one of them had to relieve themselves. I don't know what the distance is from C & C's to the lighthouse. The car was spotted in front of Diamonds International on a camera at 1:18 ? it was said.
They were looking at quite a few different locations and also wanted any info from anyone who saw the car on hte way to Joran's.