Sandra Cantu #2 4/09/09 - 4/15/09

[GramaMonkey]

We have heard of videos surfacing on the net of child porn.  Maybe some of those videos can be connected to this community ie, the church. 

So sad that another's life was taken, and hopefully it will bring some arrests to put an end to at least one ring.

[sleepyhead]

Please understand that when I make this comment, I am in no way directing it to any of the members that may have family or friends that are participating in....

Boy Scout Leaders
Pastors of Churches
Loving Uncles
Loving Friends
Sunday School Teachers
Big Brothers & Big Sisters.

The list goes on.   More and more we are hearing of the loving, friendly & caring people that serve our children in the above ways.  Over the years, numerous cases and victims have came forward....only to say, it was the leader, or the pastor, or the friendly uncle, or he was such a good friend of the family, he took him fishing, canoeing, etc....

We cannot see it.  All we can see is the cloud that these people show when they hover over and show so much attention and contribute to our children's lives. 

Now, we have a Sunday School Teacher....who was known as a loving mother, and obviously a friend to Sandra.

When is it all gonna END??????

Sadly, it will never end until people realize that sex offenders can not be cured and lock them all up in their own little world. It has gotten worse and worse over the years and I think we haven't see the worst of it yet. It will get much worse before it ever gets better. Something has to be done.

[Tracygirl]

In the press conference they said they ask the community to respect their church, no thanks! Not until I find out a little girl was not murdered there.

It just doesn't seem very "god like" or compassionate to me.

[sleepyhead]

In the press conference they said they ask the community to respect their church, no thanks! Not until I find out a little girl was not murdered there.

It just doesn't seem very "god like" or compassionate to me.

If it were not a church, would they ask to respect the crime scene?? Heck no. How can you respect a crime scene? Those people are despicable.

[mymonkey]

Please understand that when I make this comment, I am in no way directing it to any of the members that may have family or friends that are participating in....

Boy Scout Leaders
Pastors of Churches
Loving Uncles
Loving Friends
Sunday School Teachers
Big Brothers & Big Sisters.

The list goes on.   More and more we are hearing of the loving, friendly & caring people that serve our children in the above ways.  Over the years, numerous cases and victims have came forward....only to say, it was the leader, or the pastor, or the friendly uncle, or he was such a good friend of the family, he took him fishing, canoeing, etc....

We cannot see it.  All we can see is the cloud that these people show when they hover over and show so much attention and contribute to our children's lives. 

Now, we have a Sunday School Teacher....who was known as a loving mother, and obviously a friend to Sandra.

When is it all gonna END??????

Sadly, it will never end until people realize that sex offenders can not be cured and lock them all up in their own little world. It has gotten worse and worse over the years and I think we haven't see the worst of it yet. It will get much worse before it ever gets better. Something has to be done.

I have read many times that Sex Offenders never change...I agree something has got to change..such as one time offense should be life in prison. A child's life is changed forever once violated ::MonkeyWaa::jmo

[no rose colored glasses]

I read the blinkoncrime article and I want to add one thing. I think it was in VERY poor taste for the family to have services in that church yesterday. Maybe it is denial on their part, I don't know. It just really bothered me to think maybe a little girl was killed there and their family member is accused of it,  yet they choose to ignore all of that because after all that it is a place of worship for them.  Just seemed disrespectful and selfish.

Before the church was released to them, they were saying that they would have church out in the parking lot if they had too. They were awfully determined. I wonder why?? They seem pretty weird to me and I think they knew she was mentally disturbed just like the Anthony family knew Casey was.

I totally agree the family knew how off Melissa is. The thought of having Easter services in a church that supposedly is the crime scene of a murder of a child is in such poor taste, I'm speechless actually over this.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you Pink Angel 

[AZSunny]

In the press conference they said they ask the community to respect their church, no thanks! Not until I find out a little girl was not murdered there.

It just doesn't seem very "god like" or compassionate to me.

I agree that using the church now was in very poor taste.  I was amazed however at the appearance of the church inside.  It looked far nicer than I had expected it to look. (considering the outside of the church)

[Tracygirl]

Maybe they are looking at it like, evil is not going to get in the way of worshiping god, who knows. I think it was selfish, disrespectful and showed a lack of compassion. Maybe there are in denial, it would be an extra shot to them if not only their family member did this but did this in the place they behold the most....as I wrote that  it dawned on me what if that was a motive? Her father is said to not have spoken to her for the past few months, he is a religious guy. Maybe this was done to get back at that aspect of her family? Maybe this is where the determination came from to why they had to have services there?

Just a theory...

 

[JazzTune]

Hi, I'm the RN that works on a (locked)  hospital psychiatric unit.  I've not had time to catch up completely on the reading here but want to thank everyone for the warm welcome!  How fortunate I am to be able to participate in this very interesting group.

I also want to thank those who are providing all the links to the various news media.  I'm  bookmarking those sites, left and right.  Appreciate them so much.

Just want to address a few things that have been brought up that maybe I can shed a little light upon.  Several people have mentioned that there were reports that Melissa swallowed a razor blade, and wouldn't that have required extensive surgery. 

Just a couple of months ago we had a female patient who did the very same thing.  She swallowed a razor blade, but it was the whole cartridge with the recessed blade.  One that you'd snap onto the razor itself.  (Don't ask me how she got it down in the first place, especially when so many people can't swallow big pills.)  Somehow though, she did.

Anyway, it caused NO problems at all except for abdominal pain.  We did x-rays, monitoring for obstruction, and we watched her blood counts which never dropped one bit.  We did  make sure she "passed" it, (took about three days) and the cartridge was completely intact.  I would think it would have been a different outcome had it been a regular razor blade itself, which we've never had happen on our unit.  I've heard of prisoners swallowing razor blades so I'm sure it does occur.  They never come to us though; they are directed to a different facility entirely.

I had wondered if Melissa overdosed on Aspirin but someone else said they heard Melissa took an older relative's blood thinners.  That's a very plausible explanation too.  Usually, elderly people are often on Coumadin, a strong blood thinner to prevent blood clots.  It is frequently prescribed because of a heart condition that is a risk for causing clots.  Doctors also prescribe a milder blood thinner, called Plavix.  Not as potent as Coumadin.  An overdose of either, especially Coumadin, could cause life-threatening internal bleeding. 

I do believe that Melissa hit the LE radar screen, very strongly as a suspect, the minute they found out about the hospitalization.  If she truly intentionally overdosed, that would be a very strong indication she tried to commit suicide.  Not a stretch to wonder WHY, if it happened right after Sandra's body was found.  That would explain LE being at the door of her bedside, 24/7 to be in control of anyone who tried to talk to her, or get to her in any way. 

Also want to mention that if a patient does not want to stay in the hospital, a 72-hour hold is always obtained when they have done or said anything that would indicate a danger to themselves or others.  (Sometimes, half our unit is on 72-hour holds.)  The hold expiring does not mean they are free to go though.  If the doctor thinks they are still a danger to themselves or others, then anyone from our staff, or a member of the patient's family can request an MIW - mental inquest warrant.  The criteria for it are much more stringest and a judge has to uphold it.  Our hospital does not keep MIW patients.  They have to be transferred to the main county hospital downtown.

As for the initial 72-hour hold, our unit is locked so it's no problem to keep the patient securely.  In other parts of the hospital though, (specifically mentioned, the ICU) they require an additional person at the bedside to prevent any possibility of flight.

Was Melissa depressed?  Psychotic?  On drugs?  Abused in the past?  Who knows.  Most of our patients in those categories are only a threat to themselves.  They internalize their feelings against themselves.  Very seldom do they ever express a desire to harm another, and IF then, seldom ever a child. 

She does sound like she could be a sociopath.  Sociopaths have no conscience.  Therefore, the mental health system is very limited in any help they can give those people.  It's hard enough trying to remove the stigma associated with mental illness as it is, with people we CAN help.  (Agree with you about this, IBE.)  The socipaths hinder every step forward the mental health system makes!  Chemical imbalances, medication, therapy, etc. are not going to change a sociopath at all. 

Myself, I can't believe Melissa acted alone though.  Just too many other things going on, as other people have brought out.  I wonder about all of those factors too.  So hard to wrap your brain around any of the possible scenarios.  They're ALL horrible!!

Again, sorry for being so lengthy.  As I said, I ramble when I feel so passionate about something.  This has shaken me so deeply.

(Also, all of this is my opinion only.  Not diagnosing or trying to state any facts about Melissa...)





 

[no rose colored glasses]

In the press conference they said they ask the community to respect their church, no thanks! Not until I find out a little girl was not murdered there.

It just doesn't seem very "god like" or compassionate to me.

I agree that using the church now was in very poor taste.  I was amazed however at the appearance of the church inside.  It looked far nicer than I had expected it to look. (considering the outside of the church)

Me too, actually I was stunned.

[no rose colored glasses]

JazzTune, thank-you so much for your informative post, you answered some questions that I was wondering.

[AZSunny]

Hi, I'm the RN that works on a (locked)  hospital psychiatric unit.  I've not had time to catch up completely on the reading here but want to thank everyone for the warm welcome!  How fortunate I am to be able to participate in this very interesting group.

I also want to thank those who are providing all the links to the various news media.  I'm  bookmarking those sites, left and right.  Appreciate them so much.

Just want to address a few things that have been brought up that maybe I can shed a little light upon.  Several people have mentioned that there were reports that Melissa swallowed a razor blade, and wouldn't that have required extensive surgery. 

Just a couple of months ago we had a female patient who did the very same thing.  She swallowed a razor blade, but it was the whole cartridge with the recessed blade.  One that you'd snap onto the razor itself.  (Don't ask me how she got it down in the first place, especially when so many people can't swallow big pills.)  Somehow though, she did.

Anyway, it caused NO problems at all except for abdominal pain.  We did x-rays, monitoring for obstruction, and we watched her blood counts which never dropped one bit.  We did  make sure she "passed" it, (took about three days) and the cartridge was completely intact.  I would think it would have been a different outcome had it been a regular razor blade itself, which we've never had happen on our unit.  I've heard of prisoners swallowing razor blades so I'm sure it does occur.  They never come to us though; they are directed to a different facility entirely.

I had wondered if Melissa overdosed on Aspirin but someone else said they heard Melissa took an older relative's blood thinners.  That's a very plausible explanation too.  Usually, elderly people are often on Coumadin, a strong blood thinner to prevent blood clots.  It is frequently prescribed because of a heart condition that is a risk for causing clots.  Doctors also prescribe a milder blood thinner, called Plavix.  Not as potent as Coumadin.  An overdose of either, especially Coumadin, could cause life-threatening internal bleeding. 

I do believe that Melissa hit the LE radar screen, very strongly as a suspect, the minute they found out about the hospitalization.  If she truly intentionally overdosed, that would be a very strong indication she tried to commit suicide.  Not a stretch to wonder WHY, if it happened right after Sandra's body was found.  That would explain LE being at the door of her bedside, 24/7 to be in control of anyone who tried to talk to her, or get to her in any way. 

Also want to mention that if a patient does not want to stay in the hospital, a 72-hour hold is always obtained when they have done or said anything that would indicate a danger to themselves or others.  (Sometimes, half our unit is on 72-hour holds.)  The hold expiring does not mean they are free to go though.  If the doctor thinks they are still a danger to themselves or others, then anyone from our staff, or a member of the patient's family can request an MIW - mental inquest warrant.  The criteria for it are much more stringest and a judge has to uphold it.  Our hospital does not keep MIW patients.  They have to be transferred to the main county hospital downtown.

As for the initial 72-hour hold, our unit is locked so it's no problem to keep the patient securely.  In other parts of the hospital though, (specifically mentioned, the ICU) they require an additional person at the bedside to prevent any possibility of flight.

Was Melissa depressed?  Psychotic?  On drugs?  Abused in the past?  Who knows.  Most of our patients in those categories are only a threat to themselves.  They internalize their feelings against themselves.  Very seldom do they ever express a desire to harm another, and IF then, seldom ever a child. 

She does sound like she could be a sociopath.  Sociopaths have no conscience.  Therefore, the mental health system is very limited in any help they can give those people.  It's hard enough trying to remove the stigma associated with mental illness as it is, with people we CAN help.  (Agree with you about this, IBE.)  The socipaths hinder every step forward the mental health system makes!  Chemical imbalances, medication, therapy, etc. are not going to change a sociopath at all. 

Myself, I can't believe Melissa acted alone though.  Just too many other things going on, as other people have brought out.  I wonder about all of those factors too.  So hard to wrap your brain around any of the possible scenarios.  They're ALL horrible!!

Again, sorry for being so lengthy.  As I said, I ramble when I feel so passionate about something.  This has shaken me so deeply.

(Also, all of this is my opinion only.  Not diagnosing or trying to state any facts about Melissa...)





 

Great information!  Very informative post, we thank you!

[JessStar]

I'm beginning to think that it's quite possible that Melissa did this all on her own and as far FW's statement about the suitcase he may of just been relaying the lie that Melissa told to him not knowing the real truth.

It doesn't seem that she had a job or any friends but if she was on drugs she had to be associating with someone to obtain them. It's possible she was getting her drugs from someone who lives in the trailer park.

As far as her family stating that she was a loving mother, there may of been another side of Melissa that the family didn't know about. People on drugs can be very convincing. They are also unpredictable and are capable of doing anything. Bouts of depression/mood swings can also be associated with drug use.

As to the people who had their homes searched and cars towed, I still think LE stumbled across a possible porn ring unrelated to Sandra while investigation her disappearance.

Since Melissa seems to be very unstable I do believe she will confess everything.


I tried to look for a scanner for the day the ambulances came out but unfortunately SJ county is not on the scanner list
http://ca.scanamerica.us/index.php

Izzy, I agree with you 100%.  I think that's exactly the case, and the reason why Sheneman said, "There are no other suspects, and we do not anticipate any further arrests IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE."

[JessStar]

Something I caught in several articles that I just wanted to throw out there, Sheneman stated that Melissa spent an extrordinary amount of time at the church. I wonder what she was doing there?

That is why I think that building could be the "hub" for all the porn ring action.  Things can be done via live video web stream too, not everyone has to come there.  Having the guise of a church would not make anyone suspicious.

Where did you guys hear about Sandra spending an extraordinary amount of time at the church?  I thought he said the exact opposite, and that she spent a lot of time over at Grandpa and Grandma Lawless' home, but I might be mistaken.  Do you have the article handy?

[JessStar]

Sharon Ito, News10: The public service is this Thursday at West High School in Tracy. 1pm. We'll be streaming the service on Live Online.

I am on a live chat on news10 and thought I'd share this tidbit.

THANK YOU!  I WILL BE WATCHING!

[JessStar]

Something I caught in several articles that I just wanted to throw out there, Sheneman stated that Melissa spent an extrordinary amount of time at the church. I wonder what she was doing there?

That is why I think that building could be the "hub" for all the porn ring action.  Things can be done via live video web stream too, not everyone has to come there.  Having the guise of a church would not make anyone suspicious.

Where did you guys hear about Sandra spending an extraordinary amount of time at the church?  I thought he said the exact opposite, and that she spent a lot of time over at Grandpa and Grandma Lawless' home, but I might be mistaken.  Do you have the article handy?

Sorry, disregard that.  I made the God awful mistake of reading too quickly and, somehow, reading Melissa as Sandra.  ouch. . . .

[Blink34]

I read the blinkoncrime article and I want to add one thing. I think it was in VERY poor taste for the family to have services in that church yesterday. Maybe it is denial on their part, I don't know. It just really bothered me to think maybe a little girl was killed there and their family member is accused of it,  yet they choose to ignore all of that because after all that it is a place of worship for them.  Just seemed disrespectful and selfish.

Thanks Tracy, that is my biggest beef with it, and the announcement and invitation to the press. It was contrived and if it takes the last breath in me, I will fight tooth and nail against these people turning this childs murder into "Why she's innocent" because we don't want to ve saddled with  a monster in our family. Don't stand for it people.

[Tracygirl]

As I have said, I have a back round with disabled citizens and this includes mental health as well as physical. Thank you Jazztunes for an in formative post. I have been to a mental health hospital  as a field work requirement, it is an education in itself and very, very sad as well. 

I am going to respectfully disagree with a certain part of your post however. I don't think we know enough about the true details of how and why Sandra was killed to label MH with anything or exclude any possible dx. On the internet there is a lot of speculation and assumptions being made. When the details are released I think we will have more information to put her behavior up to a mental health test. 

[klaasend]

O/T

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/04/spector-jury-has-reached-a-verdict.html

The jury in Phil Spector’s murder retrial has reached a verdict.

The decision, which comes after nearly 32 hours of deliberations over nine days, will be read at 1:30 p.m., according to the L.A. Superior Court’s public information office. Spector faces at least 18 years in prison if convicted of second-degree murder in the death of Lana Clarkson, an actress shot in the legendary music producer’s Alhambra mansion six years ago. A lesser charge, involuntary manslaughter, carries two to four years in prison.