Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

   

This is where I am at the moment.  Jen, I think you did lose me with the 2 separate confessions, and then it snowballed from there.     

Sorry - that wasn't clear as mud for you? 

Let me try again............

Supposedly there were TWO 'confessions' of sorts. 

One by Joran to Patrick that we all saw.

And one by a "former suspect" who is NOT Joran. 
This former suspect told someone that Natalee had been disposed of at sea - and that someone called it in to a hotline anonymously.

That happened during the beginnings of the Persistence's search (or at least it was reported to Persistence crew in the beginnings of their search).

Joran's confession to Patrick came later - and the ONLY impact it had on the search, was Richardson telling Persistence to look in "deep water" for her - saying the confession from Joran supports it.  (which it didn't, as we all know after seeing it). 

OK...I get it, now.  The way I read your first post, I was thinking both were prior to Joran's confession to Patrick. 

It certainly doesn't help that the taped Rover conversations & the Persistence search were happening around the same time, either. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Lifesong,

If you were asking for our opinion of Mos & Richardson, I would have to say that I do not trust either one, but that is because of all that we've seen happen and not happen over the past almost 4 years. 

That said, having had a chief and detective in the family, I know that there are power struggles at times when departments have to work with the prosecutor's office.  Each takes pride in their work, and I'm certain ego comes into play, as well.   It should be a coordinated effort. 

In Aruba, with the judicial system we can't possibly understand,  my take is the prosecutor's office called the shots.  Right there is a setting that might undermine the self-proclaimed talents of the chief and his underlings, which might produce statements contradicting the stance of prosecutor.   jmo

[Tamikosmom]

I contend that it is impossible to put CAPS posts into any logical perspective other than his attempt to distract from the contents of the cage/trap which is indicated in one of his first posts on the forum.  The words of his first posts to the Natalee Holloway discussion attempts to diverts attention away from the ocean in regards to the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body ... away from the Marriott beach ... setting the stage for the pond witness.

CAPS articulates in perfect English in some posts while others appear to be writting by someone who does not grasp the English language.  His theories keep changing.  His research is flawed or he purposely provides misinformation.  CAPS Deceptively attempts to portray ignorance in regards to who Natalee Holloway's family members are.
Janet

++++++

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #394 on: January 27, 2008, 03:27:58 PM »

No no

The question is like this

Joran said that they drop the body near the Mariotte are, fishermans hut. but it is not the body that was drop. something else was drop.  Joran self was not there, it was the young MIU and the Shivas that went over there but not to build sand casle.

The KALOES (SURINAM) MOBS must have drop someting over there so that The MIU can recovert it and with the f16 send to holland.

but the real body was dumped in a body of water in noord that has not been search

The MUI was a diversion for something else.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332992#msg332992

Janet,

Here are two examples I had of Caps early posts that were, to me, just disgusting and appalling.  Each for different reasons, as I'm sure you'll understand.


1.  01/22/08:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg331197#msg331197
Ok Summary:

They were 12 but 2 got arrested and 10 more to go form this party hosted by #5, At the party they where repeating what she did a week ago with this casino boy. (making a film). everyone in the casino has seen it. The taxi drivers role (2K) was to bring her to this party. This party was at the casablanca. at the party gate the taxi driver (2k) where no allowed in. there was a heated discussion and they left waiting outside. Joran was inside.

Yes it is him.

Read the clues.

The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers.



2.  01/25/08:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg332051#msg332051

CAPSLOCKWIZARD SAYS:

HAVE SHAKEN THE WIRE, DIRTYHANDS CONSORT TO TOURIST HEAD, DIRTYHANDS IN POWERS HARBOUR.

CODES ARE SAVE, MOVING IN VERY DANGER ZONES.

DO NOT SEND POSSE, POSSE DO NOT HAVE POWERS ON INDIANS, SEND IN THE POSSE WITH POWERS TO RECOVER MARY.

Natalee was not in Aruba earlier in the week.  There was no casino boy.  She was in Mt Brook and their plane arrived Thursday afternoon.

Why anyone would promote such is just beyond me.

ANSWER:  Trolls who have been placed on Natalee Holloway forums by the Aruban "powers that be" to create smokescreens that will obscure the truth.  I contend that CAPS is a troll.

What I cannot comprehend is Monkeys who have upheld the family in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevail ... are adhering to CAPS  every word.  CAPS' theories change and ... his adherence follow each new theory with anticipation.  His flawed research is justified.  Beth Holloway is called a liar and ... no one  challenge the great leader.

Janet

[Anna]

ANSWER:  Trolls who have been placed on Natalee Holloway forums by the Aruban "powers that be" to create smokescreens that will obscure the truth.  I contend that CAPS is a troll.

What I cannot comprehend is Monkeys who have upheld the family in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevail ... are adhering to CAPS  every word.  CAPS' theories change and ... his adherence follow each new theory with anticipation.  His flawed research is justified.  Beth Holloway is called a liar and ... no one  challenge the great leader.

Janet

And no one was to challenge this as he was only here to "help" but I fail to see how any assistance was brought to anything by all this nonsense.

And that pond was thoroughly searched by a private company looking for Jose Tromp.  If anything were found that could be Natalee related, would they have just tossed that aside and said not Jose?  I don't think so.

JMO that they didn't find anything and this is why we stopped getting all the reports on that activity.

.

[Anna]

You'd think if people were going to lie, they could at least keep the timeframe straight.

I think it was OSpainter who did the actual count of time including sleep time for the MT Brook trip and they were on the island something like 83 hours before Natalee vanished.

She took no meals outside the group according to what the group told her parents.

Beth is the one I uphold in Natalee's stead.

I know of no lies she had told.  She only repeated what the Happy Islanders told her and what she believed to be the truth. 

And not even Julia and certainly not Jossy attended any party where Natalee was killed.  They are bad but not that bad.  Few people are. 

And the belief some have that if they can find a certain clue, the whole thing will unravel, it just will not happen.  This house of cards has many foundations with different interest supporting each of them.  Tourism is one, people actually implicated who don't want that know is another, Sloot protectionism is another.  Now we have to wonder about ocean exploration as yet another one.

I am just rambling and going no where in particular with this. . . feeling kind of useless these days as I can't do the corporate research some can.  I just can't follow it, too dense or whatever.


.

[Keepthefaith]

I contend that it is impossible to put CAPS posts into any logical perspective other than his attempt to distract from the contents of the cage/trap which is indicated in one of his first posts on the forum.  The words of his first posts to the Natalee Holloway discussion attempts to diverts attention away from the ocean in regards to the disposal of Natalee Holloway's body ... away from the Marriott beach ... setting the stage for the pond witness.

CAPS articulates in perfect English in some posts while others appear to be writting by someone who does not grasp the English language.  His theories keep changing.  His research is flawed or he purposely provides misinformation.  CAPS Deceptively attempts to portray ignorance in regards to who Natalee Holloway's family members are.
Janet

++++++

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #394 on: January 27, 2008, 03:27:58 PM »

No no

The question is like this

Joran said that they drop the body near the Mariotte are, fishermans hut. but it is not the body that was drop. something else was drop.  Joran self was not there, it was the young MIU and the Shivas that went over there but not to build sand casle.

The KALOES (SURINAM) MOBS must have drop someting over there so that The MIU can recovert it and with the f16 send to holland.

but the real body was dumped in a body of water in noord that has not been search

The MUI was a diversion for something else.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332992#msg332992

Janet,

Here are two examples I had of Caps early posts that were, to me, just disgusting and appalling.  Each for different reasons, as I'm sure you'll understand.


1.  01/22/08:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg331197#msg331197
Ok Summary:

They were 12 but 2 got arrested and 10 more to go form this party hosted by #5, At the party they where repeating what she did a week ago with this casino boy. (making a film). everyone in the casino has seen it. The taxi drivers role (2K) was to bring her to this party. This party was at the casablanca. at the party gate the taxi driver (2k) where no allowed in. there was a heated discussion and they left waiting outside. Joran was inside.

Yes it is him.

Read the clues.

The other riddle was rewritten and scambled and the authors given other names to confuse the readers.



2.  01/25/08:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg332051#msg332051

CAPSLOCKWIZARD SAYS:

HAVE SHAKEN THE WIRE, DIRTYHANDS CONSORT TO TOURIST HEAD, DIRTYHANDS IN POWERS HARBOUR.

CODES ARE SAVE, MOVING IN VERY DANGER ZONES.

DO NOT SEND POSSE, POSSE DO NOT HAVE POWERS ON INDIANS, SEND IN THE POSSE WITH POWERS TO RECOVER MARY.

Natalee was not in Aruba earlier in the week.  There was no casino boy.  She was in Mt Brook and their plane arrived Thursday afternoon.

Why anyone would promote such is just beyond me.

ANSWER:  Trolls who have been placed on Natalee Holloway forums by the Aruban "powers that be" to create smokescreens that will obscure the truth.  I contend that CAPS is a troll.

What I cannot comprehend is Monkeys who have upheld the family in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevail ... are adhering to CAPS  every word.  CAPS' theories change and ... his adherence follow each new theory with anticipation.  His flawed research is justified.  Beth Holloway is called a liar and ... no one  challenge the great leader.

Janet

TROLLS! LOGIC DICTATES JANET.In regards to the Persistence,as well as the cage/trap and it's contents.I believe some who believe it may be a diversion either work for,or are related to the crew!In my opinion i've seen a concerted effort to minimize,disregard, as well as rationalize kyle's word's and the photos of the contents without ANY reasoning!PERIOD..I think we've all asked as to WHY we should disregard Kyle's words and the events surrounding the cage and trap.I'm still waiting for something other then Kyle is a scammer,prankster,photoshopper!We get nothing.Wonder why??

[nonesuche]

NJ SONS MOM - you are better than myself, I would have described the legal system in Aruba as hubris or an abomination, or both.

I think what has been difficult about this case from the get-go, was that due to the internet and the realtime information highway, the path became twisted as the powers that be on Aruba and in Holland moved to deflect and begin to cover up. We have righteous indignation that Natalee's justice has not been served, yet the level at which the decision to solve or not to solve this case was very far above LE or Judicial's head. This is pure political play, I think at times it's why it's so hard to swallow.

I also stated gently when I first learned of the Persistence's involvement in the search, that I didn't believe it was for totally altruistic reasons then, and certainly not now. As much as we would like to believe companies and corporations donate heavily for causes, we need to remember that's rarer than hen's teeth. It's almost always what's in it for them. I've had to ask over the years for signifciant corporate level donations, have that t-shirt but I haven't been asking for millions of dollars in donations, but I have secured ranges from 25K to 250K. (national banks, national retailers, etc)

[Tamikosmom]

TROLLS! LOGIC DICTATES JANET.In regards to the Persistence,as well as the cage/trap and it's contents.I believe some who believe it may be a diversion either work for,or are related to the crew!In my opinion i've seen a concerted effort to minimize,disregard, as well as rationalize kyle's word's and the photos of the contents without ANY reasoning!PERIOD..I think we've all asked as to WHY we should disregard Kyle's words and the events surrounding the cage and trap.I'm still waiting for something other then Kyle is a scammer,prankster,photoshopper!We get nothing.Wonder why??

Hi Keepthefaith

It boggles my mind.

Some want it both ways.  They will not undermine Kyle Kingman's words because they know those words reveal the truth but ... for some reason ... they uphold John Silvetti.

It is all about protecting John Silvetti and ... protecting John Silvetti implies that the messenger (Kermit) ... the Natalee's Freebirds' former administrator (Jen) ... the roboposter (Tamikosmom) and others ... must be discredited/intimidated in an attempt to silence.

In other words ... Kyle Kingman's words which implicate John Silvetti in the finale to the great Aruban coverup must be allowed to fade away ... to disappear.

Janet

[Anna]

And I would even be OK with duel purposes had not donations been solicited. 

But I will never be OK with the contents of that trap which Kyle assured us repeated were human remains being turned over exclusively to ALE, the enemy of justice in this investigation.

[Anna]

Some seem concerned that young Kyle will get into trouble with his employer because of the things he said about him.

That is unforunate.  But the cause of justice for Natalee is why we are here.  It is not the fault of others what Kyle posted.  He has only himself to blame for that.

And he knew from the leaked photos Robin posted in yet another hidey hole that nothing stays private in the net.

So what are we supposed to do?  Forego what may have been in the trap in order to protect the career of Kyle?  That is asking too much.

[nonesuche]

And I would even be OK with duel purposes had not donations been solicited. 

But I will never be OK with the contents of that trap which Kyle assured us repeated were human remains being turned over exclusively to ALE, the enemy of justice in this investigation.

Agreed, the asking of private donations targeting these forums on the web was the nail in the coffin of the lack of integrity. In light of the funds required, it could have only been a drop in the bucket to boot?

Any human remains discovered should have been open for scrutiny but then, this is Aruba.....


Janet-

They don't discredit you. Slings and arrows........and Caps has had every opportunity to reach out to responsible individuals who would protect his identity in this case in the US. He/she never did, very telling

IMO

[jen3560]

NJ SONS MOM - you are better than myself, I would have described the legal system in Aruba as hubris or an abomination, or both.

I think what has been difficult about this case from the get-go, was that due to the internet and the realtime information highway, the path became twisted as the powers that be on Aruba and in Holland moved to deflect and begin to cover up. We have righteous indignation that Natalee's justice has not been served, yet the level at which the decision to solve or not to solve this case was very far above LE or Judicial's head. This is pure political play, I think at times it's why it's so hard to swallow.

I also stated gently when I first learned of the Persistence's involvement in the search, that I didn't believe it was for totally altruistic reasons then, and certainly not now. As much as we would like to believe companies and corporations donate heavily for causes, we need to remember that's rarer than hen's teeth. It's almost always what's in it for them. I've had to ask over the years for signifciant corporate level donations, have that t-shirt but I haven't been asking for millions of dollars in donations, but I have secured ranges from 25K to 250K. (national banks, national retailers, etc)

Around about the same time Kyle told us that he was interested to see if Freebirds could guess Silvetti's next move - he also stated that "At the end of the day, John is a business man."

[Keepthefaith]

TROLLS! LOGIC DICTATES JANET.In regards to the Persistence,as well as the cage/trap and it's contents.I believe some who believe it may be a diversion either work for,or are related to the crew!In my opinion i've seen a concerted effort to minimize,disregard, as well as rationalize kyle's word's and the photos of the contents without ANY reasoning!PERIOD..I think we've all asked as to WHY we should disregard Kyle's words and the events surrounding the cage and trap.I'm still waiting for something other then Kyle is a scammer,prankster,photoshopper!We get nothing.Wonder why??

Hi Keepthefaith

It boggles my mind.

Some want it both ways.  They will not undermine Kyle Kingman's words because they know those words reveal the truth but ... for some reason ... they uphold John Silvetti.

It is all about protecting John Silvetti and ... protecting John Silvetti implies that the messenger (Kermit) ... the Natalee's Freebirds' former administrator (Jen) ... the roboposter (Tamikosmom) and others ... must be discredited/intimidated in an attempt to silence.

In other words ... Kyle Kingman's words which implicate John Silvetti in the finale to the great Aruban coverup must be allowed to fade away ... to disappear.

Janet

ALL LOYALTY'S SHOULD REST AT THE FEET OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!

WHERE EVER THAT TAKES US!

[jen3560]

Some seem concerned that young Kyle will get into trouble with his employer because of the things he said about him.

That is unforunate.  But the cause of justice for Natalee is why we are here.  It is not the fault of others what Kyle posted.  He has only himself to blame for that.

And he knew from the leaked photos Robin posted in yet another hidey hole that nothing stays private in the net.

So what are we supposed to do?  Forego what may have been in the trap in order to protect the career of Kyle?  That is asking too much.

Precisely Anna!!

Natalee's Freebirds had congregated for one reason, and one reason only = Justice and answers for Natalee and her family.

Kyle knew that going in....

[Tamikosmom]

Take note.  Lou's post regarding the lawsuit can now only be viewed by members of the Gold Monkey's site.

Janet

______

INTIMIDATION MEANT TO SILENCE?

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18 -
« Reply #451 on: February 19, 2009, 02:21:24 AM »

billb ... I sooo frustrated.  After reading Kyle Kingman's own words ... my quest to further  justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family dictates that I would not give John Silvetti the time of day.  I would spit on him.

Janet

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679694#msg679694


ldstlou
HMMMMMM! New Lawsuit and It Ain't Dr. Phil
« on: Today at 06:27:57 pm »

I was just tipped off to an upcoming lawsuit and it ain't Dr. Phil's!!

Me thinks you should not be slandering the names of good businessmen nor spitting on them either, especially businessmen with way more money than you and way more to lose by slander!

I guess some people think it can go on and on for months and not get tiresome. I think they guessed wrong!!

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=871.0

[jen3560]

TROLLS! LOGIC DICTATES JANET.In regards to the Persistence,as well as the cage/trap and it's contents.I believe some who believe it may be a diversion either work for,or are related to the crew!In my opinion i've seen a concerted effort to minimize,disregard, as well as rationalize kyle's word's and the photos of the contents without ANY reasoning!PERIOD..I think we've all asked as to WHY we should disregard Kyle's words and the events surrounding the cage and trap.I'm still waiting for something other then Kyle is a scammer,prankster,photoshopper!We get nothing.Wonder why??

Hi Keepthefaith

It boggles my mind.

Some want it both ways.  They will not undermine Kyle Kingman's words because they know those words reveal the truth but ... for some reason ... they uphold John Silvetti.

It is all about protecting John Silvetti and ... protecting John Silvetti implies that the messenger (Kermit) ... the Natalee's Freebirds' former administrator (Jen) ... the roboposter (Tamikosmom) and others ... must be discredited/intimidated in an attempt to silence.

In other words ... Kyle Kingman's words which implicate John Silvetti in the finale to the great Aruban coverup must be allowed to fade away ... to disappear.
Janet

You and I know each other's hearts well enough to understand - neither of us would ever let that happen.

And neither would anyone/everyone here who just wants to see justice done - and hopefully Natalee returned to her family.

[Keepthefaith]

Take note.  Lou's post regarding the lawsuit can now only be viewed by members of the Gold Monkey's site.

Janet

______

INTIMIDATION MEANT TO SILENCE?

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18 -
« Reply #451 on: February 19, 2009, 02:21:24 AM »

billb ... I sooo frustrated.  After reading Kyle Kingman's own words ... my quest to further  justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family dictates that I would not give John Silvetti the time of day.  I would spit on him.

Janet

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679694#msg679694


ldstlou
HMMMMMM! New Lawsuit and It Ain't Dr. Phil
« on: Today at 06:27:57 pm »

I was just tipped off to an upcoming lawsuit and it ain't Dr. Phil's!!

Me thinks you should not be slandering the names of good businessmen nor spitting on them either, especially businessmen with way more money than you and way more to lose by slander!

I guess some people think it can go on and on for months and not get tiresome. I think they guessed wrong!!

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=871.0

It's laugable.Can you see the court's witness list?

[Anna]

Well, I also saw with interest the twisting once again of what was posted at that website and this time in regards to Cub Scouts, even.

No one here bashed any Cub Scouts!

What we did find objectionable to was the using of them as a shield by certain attacker as a reason not to answer questions or actually read responses.

It was this person who was abusing the cub scout angle for their own protection and not monkeys.

Typical of the twist and warped interpretation of things actually posted by those with reading comprehension problems.  And a really lowdown thing to do.  Almost as bad as telling Jug the monkeys said the family had the remains and concealed that fact.

Some people can only feel better about themselves by trying to make others look bad.  It seldom works on thinking people.

[nonesuche]

NJ SONS MOM - you are better than myself, I would have described the legal system in Aruba as hubris or an abomination, or both.

I think what has been difficult about this case from the get-go, was that due to the internet and the realtime information highway, the path became twisted as the powers that be on Aruba and in Holland moved to deflect and begin to cover up. We have righteous indignation that Natalee's justice has not been served, yet the level at which the decision to solve or not to solve this case was very far above LE or Judicial's head. This is pure political play, I think at times it's why it's so hard to swallow.

I also stated gently when I first learned of the Persistence's involvement in the search, that I didn't believe it was for totally altruistic reasons then, and certainly not now. As much as we would like to believe companies and corporations donate heavily for causes, we need to remember that's rarer than hen's teeth. It's almost always what's in it for them. I've had to ask over the years for signifciant corporate level donations, have that t-shirt but I haven't been asking for millions of dollars in donations, but I have secured ranges from 25K to 250K. (national banks, national retailers, etc)

Around about the same time Kyle told us that he was interested to see if Freebirds could guess Silvetti's next move - he also stated that "At the end of the day, John is a business man."

Indeed Jen, indeed. He is predictable.

[Magnolia]

Take note.  Lou's post regarding the lawsuit can now only be viewed by members of the Gold Monkey's site.

Janet

______

INTIMIDATION MEANT TO SILENCE?

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18 -
« Reply #451 on: February 19, 2009, 02:21:24 AM »

billb ... I sooo frustrated.  After reading Kyle Kingman's own words ... my quest to further  justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family dictates that I would not give John Silvetti the time of day.  I would spit on him.

Janet

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679694#msg679694


ldstlou
HMMMMMM! New Lawsuit and It Ain't Dr. Phil
« on: Today at 06:27:57 pm »

I was just tipped off to an upcoming lawsuit and it ain't Dr. Phil's!!

Me thinks you should not be slandering the names of good businessmen nor spitting on them either, especially businessmen with way more money than you and way more to lose by slander!

I guess some people think it can go on and on for months and not get tiresome. I think they guessed wrong!!

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=871.0

Janet,
I would spit on him too.