Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Brandi]

Kaine Horman: Terri Horman 'master of deception'

Kaine Horman had harsh words Monday morning for Terri Moulton Horman, hours after Kyron Horman's mother Desiree Young lashed out at Terri.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

Thank you for this, Grey.



Kaine Horman: Terri Horman 'master of deception'

by Michael Rollins
PORTLAND -- Kaine Horman had harsh words Monday morning for Terri Moulton Horman, speaking at the 'Wall of Hope' hours after Kyron Horman's mother Desiree Young lashed out at Terri in an interview on NBC's Today show.

"We're dealing with someone who is a master of deception, misdirection, and she's bringing it forward in spades," Kaine said of Terri during a press conference at the boy's 'Wall of Hope.'

Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.

He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue.

Kaine told reporters that a good example of Terri's deception was her alcoholism. She hid it from him well, he said.

"It's only the tip of the iceberg" of her flaws, she said.

On the Today show, Desiree Young said Kyron hated going back to Portland after visiting her in Medford, something she wishes she had seen as a sign of trouble. She and Kaine talked about the boy's emotions, she said.

At the press conference, Kaine said he had not watched the Today Show and was filled in by reporters.

He acknowledged the boy's unhappiness about moving between the two homes. Kyron would be unhappy about it, but Kaine said he considered the child's behavior a normal part of  separation anxiety.

He and Desiree spoked about the child's emotions but Kaine said it was not something he thought required a change in custody arrangements. At the end of the summer when Kyron returned to Medford for a weekend, he said he would rather stay in Portland, Kaine said.

Kaine said Kiara misses her brother. She used to read while sitting in a bean bag chair with Kryon would sit on the bed and read. She still sits on the bean bag to read, wondering why her brother is not there, he said.

[novella]

I have never once since I have been on this forum for years seen anyone drag a victim through the mud, ever. And certainly not an innocent child. But since this is a forum people are going to have different thoughts and opinions, and not every opinion is going to be liked by everyone.

Well said NRCG. 

completely agree!

Fine with me. I did skip over most of the discussions about Kyron's possible bathroom habits, but do not let me stop you. Probably time to rehash them anyway.

Don't forget the discussions that he is possibly +++++++ even though there have been published comments about the fact that he is bright. Some retardation comments were based on a photo where it was obvious he had not learned to smile properly for the camera.

Some people enjoyed the discussions or the would not have happened. If you think they cannot be considered dragging someone through the mud, please continue, and I will continue to skip over them.

....ummm....most of us did not partake in the bathroom comments...and I believe those that did have that discussion were looking for possible theories of WHY TH might have harmed Kyron.  Just as many are doing and have done in many of the missing children threads.  I don't have a problem with people trying to figure out why even though it is pointless...who can understand a sicko and why they would hurt a child.

[Scatty]

Kaine Horman: Terri Horman 'master of deception'

Kaine Horman had harsh words Monday morning for Terri Moulton Horman, hours after Kyron Horman's mother Desiree Young lashed out at Terri.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html

Haven't posted here in a while, but wanted to say my hunch about Terri was spot on.  I felt all along the only reason Kyron is gone is due to her intense hatred.  She's a chameleon of sorts, becoming different things to different people.  Remember her rather punitive punishment of Kyron if he did not get a green card each day at school?  Now why she would have the cajones to admit her hatred of Kyron to a friend is beyond me.  I don't think she's playing with a full deck.  While I will say that Kaine has some serious judgement flaws, I feel that Terri had him thoroughly snookered.

ITA txlisa. I do think that Kyron may have wanted to stay with Desiree when he was with her and hated going back to Terri's "tender" care, but when he was around Kaine, he  probably felt like he wanted to be around his dad. I think he loved his Dad a lot and didn't want to hurt him if Kaine ever asked him if he wanted to still live with him. Alone-time with Terri must not have been pleasant for Kyron.

As for saying negative things about Kyron to friends, she was probably guaging their loyalty as well as her hatred having to just bubble over sometimes. Perhaps, based on their reactions, she was looking for a similar-minded buddy to help her get rid of the child she hated.

[tnmomb]

[quo WTF he allowed her to be alone with Ky and Kitty with no supervision EVER

Could be because TH was a master manipulator and Kaine wanted to believe her. Dr. Pat Allen talks about how unless the woman is packed and gone a man will not really think their problems are "that bad". How many times have you seen a guy say I didn't realize we things were that bad. I remember the shock of my own ex. Here I thought he was well aware from counseling etc. but he truly was shocked when I actually left.
I have NO Idea for sure about their marriage. I am just offering a common example.  I do know children reflect any and everything that is going on in their home and it sounds like Kyron was expressing the best he could how insecure and upset he was from what was happening.
I have never cried about this until after I saw Desiree today. Her pain/sadness/guilt was gut wrenching.
How  anyone could "hate" a child I can never begin to understand. I guess only someone who's pathology is that of a child and feels they are competing. How sick!

[numbersgirl]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

[novella]

"Kaine Horman told reporters today that he never thought that his son Kyron was in danger around his estranged wife in the months before he disappeared."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

[novella]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

[islandmonkey]

I for one have no interest in Kyron's bathroom habits and the retardation comment, I will leave alone since it was said in very bad taste, and it is an insult to anybody that has or had a family member with Down's syndrome, period 

I must have missed the "retardation comments"......I remember the comments that maybe he had some learning problems and "possible" developmental issues, but NOTHING like retardation......and agree that it is insulting to those who have family members with children that have Down's Syndrome. I thought it was more about the jist of Novella's post about downplaying the obvious, and I do know men who can never see anything wrong such as a learning disability when it comes to there chilld, but realistically it should be addressed IF there appears to be a problem (even retmotely), no shame in that. I had my daughter tested when she was in 3rd grade because I thought she had some learing issues and was worried, turned out she had an IQ that was in the top 96%, but thought outside the box and not in absolutes and was ADD. I think sometimes women are more in tuned with the kids as far as these issues go, men seem to want to not want to accept that their child is not perfect, but if they just bothered to ask questions and have them tested they would learn the kids are so much more than a diagnosis, and learn to accept them for what they are and enjoy the blessings....no child is perfect nor should they be expected to be perfect, they are a gift from above and sometimes I think men/fathers don't get it....but, that is MOO.

God Bless Kyron and please let this be the search than brings him home and finds hard core evidence that stands up in court so those involved are punished to the fullest extent possible under the law 

[islandmonkey]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

  I just have a curious question........how can it be both???

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me 

[klaasend]

It's pretty easy for those on the outside, that don't know all the facts, to place blame.  Please be careful vilifying Kaine or Desiree unless you really know all the facts.  None of us know.  Unless LE tells us otherwise KAINE, DESIREE and TONY are all victims.

All we know is that it's obvious now that Terri had problems and  it appears she had a hatred for Kyron.  It also appears that LE considers Terri the main suspect in Kryon's disappearance even though she has not been officially charged or named.

[klaasend]

IM - It really doesn't matter what you or I "buy".  He may not have realized until recently that her actions were alcohol related.  We really don't know. 

[Scatty]

 

Kaine said that, since the investigation began, he's heard directly from friends and family about conversations they had with Terri.

He said he realized too late, after he and Terri were no longer together, that she was crafting an image of her relationship with him and children in their household that was untrue.

Kaine told reporters that a good example of Terri's deception was her alcoholism. She hid it from him well, he said.

"It's only the tip of the iceberg" of her flaws, she said.

I still think Terri abused more substances than just alcohol.
I guess Kaine must be referring to the picture she portrayed, at the health club and in possible emails to friends, of his "controlling" behavior and his "bad" relationship with James. Obviously he wouldn't have stayed with her if he thought she hated Kyron or hated him enough to put a hit on him.

Who knows, maybe she decided on disappearing Kyron as a test project. That would make offing Kaine a lot easier. "Suicide" over his son's disappearance would have been just a perfect cover. Poor Terri, nothing ever turns out right for her, darn it!

[novella]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

  I just have a curious question........how can it be both???

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.   

7. Respondent's alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara's attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.  As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.

Sorry~I don't buy it but that's just me 

I agree...Kaine can't have it both ways.  And I am not badmouthing any party...just stating the obvious.

[Brandi]

Kaine Horman: "Do I hope she had an accomplice? Absolutely, I do. Cause then there's a higher probability he's alive."

Reported by: Kyle Mallory
Last Update: 12:57 pm

Kaine Horman spoke to a gathering of media at the Wall of Hope Monday morning, addressing the case surrounding his missing son, Kyron Horman, as well as statements made by the boy's mother, Desiree Young.

Young appeared on the Today Show earlier Monday, and revealed that officials had provided her and Kaine with emails Terri had written.

"It's very clear from Terri's horrible words that she had a severe hatred towards Kyron," Young said.

Kaine reiterated his belief that Terri had something to do with Kyron's disappearance.

"She could have done it on her own, or with an accomplice," Kaine said. "Do I hope she had an accomplice? Absolutely, I do. Cause then there's a higher probability he's alive."

Despite his belief that Terri had something to do with Kyron's disappearance, Kaine said he didn't foresee this as a possibility.

"She's a master of deception and misdirection," Kaine said.

"Her (Terri's) relationships with the children in general were not acceptable," he added.

Kaine also touched on custody issues brought forth in Young's morning interview.

"She (Desiree) did ask (about custody), but there was never a court request, there was never a legal request, it was her and I talking about what was best at the time," Kaine said.

"And, based on that circumstance--he was gone (with Desiree) for six or seven weeks and then coming back home--he missed his mom, it's not enough grounds for 'hey we need to switch custody.'" 

The entire conversation can be seen in the video player to the right.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

[novella]

He stated this in court documents:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended. 

And now he says this:


He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

Yet...the passing out never got his attention?  Allowing the two baby children to be in an alcoholic's care never got his attention?  I wonder if Desiree is preparting to file a civil suit of her own...and not just against TH.

[Scatty]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

[novella]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

[Brandi]

I wonder if the emails Desiree referred to (the ones that showed Terri hated Kyron) will come out fairly soon, possibly in adivorce or custody motion/response. I'm curious as to what was said.

Yes, I am wondering this, as well.  Do you think Kaine was shown the emails, as well?

In this video, he starts out saying her is aware of the emails.

It is a video of the full conference Kaine gave at the wall today.

Edit to add link MB:  http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx

[islandmonkey]

IM - It really doesn't matter what you or I "buy".  He may not have realized until recently that her actions were alcohol related.  We really don't know. 

I agree we may not know (but I just can't see it personally IMO and how can he say for a FACT in his response where I just posted if he just heard from a few others, I would hope if he put it on a court document he actually witnessed it.  I can't see someone passing out on the couch a few nights a wk after drinking as NOT being an alcohol problem?...... but more important than that.......if she was exhibiting ANY signs (even giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was clueless why she was passed out on the couch, or that she had psychological issues), why not let him stay with Desiree until he was able to figure it out. I can't imagine leaving a child in an enviroment, much less 2 and one a baby where what he described in his own response he details what was happening in the home......

I have never stated I thought Kaine was involved in the disappearance -that is soley on Terri and whomever and the LE to prove and I sure hope that have the goods on her, I am just sick of these custody disputes when it is obvious there was a better choice, and it is heartbreaking to see all these cases we have lately as I mentioned ealier.....words fail me and I can only pray others learn from this and do what is right for the child, and not for them - I believe raising I child means selflessness, and it is rare to witness in these cases and the child pays the ultimate price, completely unfair

[Scatty]

I don't get the difficulty in understanding why someone can find a person's behavior odd but not understand exactly why until later. Parents often have that problem with their teens, who start behaving differently, dressing sloppy, cutting school, sullenness, sleeping all day, up all night. The lightbulb goes on when they find drugs in their kid's room or the kid gets busted. Until then, it's "hormones", "trying to assert their independence," or "just the territory that goes with being a teen."

Hypothetical Scenario:  If my spouse behaved oddly and badly at times, it might be covered up as being something wrong with ME; something I did or said was making the spouse upset and I'd be trying to figure it out; lack of communication causing spouse to retreat to overdrinking at night after a stressful day with the kids, also my fault somehow. Little do I know, it's all an act to keep me at bay while spouse flirts and finds new fiance-to-be online, abuses alcohol, drugs or whatever, and plans a carefree, spouse-free life in the near future.