Happy Fourth to Everyone! Thanks to all those who made it possible!

[Tylergal]

First off I want to thank everyone of you who have taken the time to care about our country and those who still love her for feeling that way. It's an old birthday, this American birthday.  Though she is becoming what Patrick Henry warned us of, she is still worth preserving because she stood for liberty, liberty for all and that liberty and freedom that no other nation on earth has known, albeit dwindling.  Patrick Henry warned us about a centralized government and his wise words cease to be heeded. 

Now to Louise's and Caseu's points or complaints, political forums are designed (or the successful ones) such that current articles from newspapers, newsmagazines of interest are posted and there is an opportunity for others to post their disagreement with it, their agreement with it, their commentary on it. 

Long commentary is usually done by the owner of the blog such as Red, who has done that from time to time and especially on the front page but I know that with Red's and Mrs. Red's busy schedules secondary to their careers, the political forum had become a respite for disgruntled monkeys who wanted to read their opinions without fact from newspaper. 

So I will leave before I am tossed out by Caseu, Louise and Klaas but to the good friends who I have known via Natalee, for a long time here and come to respect, None, San, Crazy Baby Borg, Lala's Mom, just to name a few of you who are still here from long ago when Natalee Holloway disappeared and who are still here in hope and prayer for Beth and Dave.

To Mr and Mrs Red, who persevered, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet such fantastic people and to Klaas who is magic and who has a mind like a steel trap, to Anna whose words rival the most brilliant editorials, whose opinion I miss very much, I say Happy Fourth to you because you are the salt of the earth and the ones who truly cared for Natalee whose life slipped away just as justice slipped away because greed  would not allow this third-world country to admit its mistakes.  Those whose names I did not type, you know who you are and know that you will be missed, but I must move on as there is much work to be done.

[nonesuche]

This makes me so sad Tyler, for it's posters who post mostly photos of themselves and a foreigner that obviously has no notion of the premise of free speech, that have run you off.

I think that needs to hit home too here, they have run you off. I can understand that the struggle isn't worth it when you invest time and effort in bringing the non-groupthink to the forum for review, but increasingly it's become apparent to me that freedom of thought and qualified examination of the possible next leader for our country isn't welcome by two posters determined to drive off any thoughts but their own.

In a just world I guess the only response now is that they deserve each other, I just do not agree that our country deserves the risks and lack of genuine and qualified leadership that Obama may represent.

Frankly both of those posters can kiss my grits.

[caesu]

have a nice day.

what you mean nonesuche: "obviously has no notion of the premise of free speech".
does that mean i can't respond to foulmouthing or false statements?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3010.0

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2718.msg395955

i don't like to see Tylergal leave because of the inability to deal with criticism or opposition.
and i didn't mind much the degoratory and vulgar language of Tylergal. that's also free speech.

earlier i made the suggestion for a special Tylergal thread for the plethora of copy-paste work.
that's might be a bit more practical than for every article a single thread.
just an idea. not a big deal.

[nonesuche]

caesu-

You don't want to tangle with me, trust me, honestly you are nothing more than a mimic and not once have you brought one thought-provoking independent thought of merit to share here.

You do however copy and paste really well from the Obama propaganda sites and snopes.

Bully for you, you can post a link but cannot factor through a qualified discussion with actual critical thought.

A mimic, look it up.

[caesu]

that's doesn't really look like a response to my comment.
so not a good example of a 'qualified discussion'.

and for my copy-paste work. check my history. i rarely copy-paste an article in this part of the forum.
and if i do, i don't make a single thread each time without a source-link.
and they are not from propaganda sites. or is the washington post that now?

fine, call me a mimic. are you mimicing Tylergal now, copying the name-calling?
only proofs my point if you have to resort to such 'discussion' methods.
so keep that up.

[nonesuche]

You must not realize how completely unimportant your opinion is to me caesu, suddenly you are now referencing the Washington Post which tyler clearly credited in her first post yet you denied it was the source? I recognize mind games when I see them, I won't allow you to threaten me as you just did in your last post.

Since you are from the netherlands perhaps you've never heard of the expression of calling a spade a spade - which is all I did by referencing you as a mimic. That isn't a derogatory name, in this case it's a certainty and a truth as it relates to you.

[caesu]

well, you are mixing things up now. that article Tyler posted had AFP as the ultimate source.
and you said i copy from propaganda sites.
i do copy from washington post and put that as source down if it is not from another press agency.

and it is fine that you don't care about my opinion.
however that could explain narrow-mindedness if you only care about opinions who are aligned with your stance.

and you can call my whatever you want. i honestly don't mind.
but it says more about you than about me if you feel the need to do that.

[crazybabyborg]

First off I want to thank everyone of you who have taken the time to care about our country and those who still love her for feeling that way. It's an old birthday, this American birthday.  Though she is becoming what Patrick Henry warned us of, she is still worth preserving because she stood for liberty, liberty for all and that liberty and freedom that no other nation on earth has known, albeit dwindling.  Patrick Henry warned us about a centralized government and his wise words cease to be heeded. 

Now to Louise's and Caseu's points or complaints, political forums are designed (or the successful ones) such that current articles from newspapers, newsmagazines of interest are posted and there is an opportunity for others to post their disagreement with it, their agreement with it, their commentary on it. 

Long commentary is usually done by the owner of the blog such as Red, who has done that from time to time and especially on the front page but I know that with Red's and Mrs. Red's busy schedules secondary to their careers, the political forum had become a respite for disgruntled monkeys who wanted to read their opinions without fact from newspaper. 

So I will leave before I am tossed out by Caseu, Louise and Klaas but to the good friends who I have known via Natalee, for a long time here and come to respect, None, San, Crazy Baby Borg, Lala's Mom, just to name a few of you who are still here from long ago when Natalee Holloway disappeared and who are still here in hope and prayer for Beth and Dave.

To Mr and Mrs Red, who persevered, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet such fantastic people and to Klaas who is magic and who has a mind like a steel trap, to Anna whose words rival the most brilliant editorials, whose opinion I miss very much, I say Happy Fourth to you because you are the salt of the earth and the ones who truly cared for Natalee whose life slipped away just as justice slipped away because greed  would not allow this third-world country to admit its mistakes.  Those whose names I did not type, you know who you are and know that you will be missed, but I must move on as there is much work to be done.

TYLER! Please reconsider! I would miss you terribly! Your posts are so thoughtful and well said! Whether it's on the Political thread, or in Natalee's thread, I count on your posts having depth of understanding, true knowledge and wisdom and to be solidly based on referenced material. I know I speak for all you mentioned, as well as many others, when I ask you to stay! Your absence would be a great loss; please think about it again! A heart and head like yours are unique and I feel like I'm loosing a friend!

[Lala'sMom]

Well this is just great!!!  I finally get the nerve to come in here and discuss politics knowing full well it's one of the most contentious of subjects and Tylergal is leaving.  Tylergal is very conservative in her thoughts and I am more middle of the road with a right leaning attitude.   Still I value her political observations.  She has been around more politics over the years than most realize.  She is not ignorant to any of the facts, just very opinionated. Most of us here are and I don't always agree with her, but regardless I will always defend her right to say what she wants because I live in the greatest country on earth.  I was blessed by the good Lord to have that opportunity and I will never take it for granted. 

When I was in civics class in high school, I sat at the foot of a masterful teacher that instilled in me the need to vote in elections and take part in the discourse of politics.  I learned how precious it is to be able to argue your point of view, regardless of word choice, and still live to tell the tale.  Should you venture in the political thread of any forum you must have a thick skin. It is true there are a few things that should never be discussed in polite company and one being politics and the other religion. Now, I have to go find another place to rant about Obama and defend McCain. Without Tylergal, it won't be the same. 

[LouiseVargas]

First off I want to thank everyone of you who have taken the time to care about our country and those who still love her for feeling that way. It's an old birthday, this American birthday.  Though she is becoming what Patrick Henry warned us of, she is still worth preserving because she stood for liberty, liberty for all and that liberty and freedom that no other nation on earth has known, albeit dwindling.  Patrick Henry warned us about a centralized government and his wise words cease to be heeded. 

Now to Louise's and Caseu's points or complaints, political forums are designed (or the successful ones) such that current articles from newspapers, newsmagazines of interest are posted and there is an opportunity for others to post their disagreement with it, their agreement with it, their commentary on it. 

Long commentary is usually done by the owner of the blog such as Red, who has done that from time to time and especially on the front page but I know that with Red's and Mrs. Red's busy schedules secondary to their careers, the political forum had become a respite for disgruntled monkeys who wanted to read their opinions without fact from newspaper. 

So I will leave before I am tossed out by Caseu, Louise and Klaas but to the good friends who I have known via Natalee, for a long time here and come to respect, None, San, Crazy Baby Borg, Lala's Mom, just to name a few of you who are still here from long ago when Natalee Holloway disappeared and who are still here in hope and prayer for Beth and Dave.

To Mr and Mrs Red, who persevered, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet such fantastic people and to Klaas who is magic and who has a mind like a steel trap, to Anna whose words rival the most brilliant editorials, whose opinion I miss very much, I say Happy Fourth to you because you are the salt of the earth and the ones who truly cared for Natalee whose life slipped away just as justice slipped away because greed  would not allow this third-world country to admit its mistakes.  Those whose names I did not type, you know who you are and know that you will be missed, but I must move on as there is much work to be done.

Tyler, your mean spirited posts are what got you tossed. Everyone please read below:
Re: Putting lipstick on the pig, dressing it up as a right-winger
« Reply #2 on: Today at 09:23:37 AM » Quote 
Oh, I see our little piece of human excrement is here today, saying what I post is bullshit although I have taken this from the mainstream media with documentation.  Can this little marxist pile of doodoo not stay over at HuffingandPuffing Post.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: "Is Race the Issue?"
« Reply #517 on: July 02, 2008, 06:21:26 PM » Quote 
+++++, he was just elected and could not jump into the race the same time it was going on.  How stupid are you!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Putting lipstick on the pig, dressing it up as a right-winger
« Reply #8 on: Today at 04:31:00 PM » Quote 
When I am asked by Red to provide a source, I will.  I did not do it because you asked, you sniveling little pile of rat excrement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above speaks for itself.

[LouiseVargas]

Tylergal is very conservative in her thoughts and I am more middle of the road with a right leaning attitude.

Did you read she calls people pieces of excrement in her posts? Doesn't sound conservative to me. I sense a total lack of everyday manners.

[nonesuche]

Lala's you are a mature person with a mature mind, not a child as some appear to be. I'm not going to participate in further political discussion here for two distinct reasons.

1) Caesu and Louise want to have only liberal democratic thought and discourse here and have been allowed to toy with other posters along with wasting time and research by others.
2) Caesu taunts anyone who dares to post something he disagrees with. He particularly taunted tyler, wanting her to specify every source with a link when in this day and age, googling the title or first line of any article readily brings up the source. He became a tedious drag on Tyler and I frankly find his tactics disgusting.

I find it remarkable that Caesu has been allowed to do this, in that even well known and credible SM posters lose all patience with him on the FP often, for I researched Caesu's posts across the web late yesterday. A techie from the Netherlands that hopes to annoy, taunt, discourage credible US posters. His response to the energy crisis is to recommend we all take 'nice' bike rides to work and that the US is an energy addict. Frankly that's evidence of a most simple mind unable to wrap itself around complex issues, exactly my same fear regarding Obama. I frankly don't think Obama is smart but that he's cunning. I also found references here at SM where Caesu seems to believe the Kalpoe brothers are innocent, then he flip flops back when called on that by other posters.

So no surprise he's in support of Obama who is rapidly becoming not only the king of the flip-flop, but whose own birth certificate is missing key entries (the one he publishes himself in his wondermous book), and now refuses to respond to questions around this or providing authentic copy for review. IMO he may have made a most freudian slip for if it can be proven he isn't a valid US citizen, his race is over. I frankly had to have a valid passport and birth certificate and present the originals to my current employer at my orientation ! Who is Obama to think he doesn't have to respond to questions? Why cut of the same cloth as Caesu, snide and evasive characters.

Louise, you have no right to speak about manners when you post predominately about your pride when you upset a man's wife as you did recently playing up your pink bikini? So you want us to believe your thoughts and opinions come from a rational mind? Nope, I can't.

[Lala'sMom]

Tylergal is very conservative in her thoughts and I am more middle of the road with a right leaning attitude.

Did you read she calls people pieces of excrement in her posts? Doesn't sound conservative to me. I sense a total lack of everyday manners.

Unfortunately, there are POS everywhere in this world.  I did read what she said and I have read worse from people here and in various other places.  Politics is a very emotional thing for some people.  What may not or may be acceptable goes right out the window in politics.  I have seen it everywhere.  I remember some religion discussions with  other posters that have turned into free for alls before. People have very strong feelings about such things and no matter what you can't change them.  I remember Widget and some of his extremely heated political debates before.  He left also, for the same reasons as Tylergal and he was on the far side of left all the time.  Even in 1776 the political debates were far from civil and resulted in a little name calling even back then.  If you are going to participate in political discourse you must bring your fire retardant suit to all sessions. Frankly, this is getting ridiculous.  If you come here you already have very strong leanings one way or the other and nothing can change that.  It's time to move on and I don't mean moveon.org either!

[caesu]

His response to the energy crisis is to recommend we all take 'nice' bike rides to work and that the US is an energy addict. Frankly that's evidence of a most simple mind unable to wrap itself around complex issues, exactly my same fear regarding Obama. I frankly don't think Obama is smart but that he's cunning. I also found references here at SM where Caesu seems to believe the Kalpoe brothers are innocent, then he flip flops back when called on that by other posters.

+ State of the Union 2006:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-10.html

Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternative energy sources -- and we are on the threshold of incredible advances.

+ please show me where i said the Kalpoes are innocent.

[Auntiem]

     Tylergirl, please don't leave, your posts are inormative and right on. 

   Please, Red, could we maybe have a thread for Conservative's and non-combative others!!!!

[nonesuche]

His response to the energy crisis is to recommend we all take 'nice' bike rides to work and that the US is an energy addict. Frankly that's evidence of a most simple mind unable to wrap itself around complex issues, exactly my same fear regarding Obama. I frankly don't think Obama is smart but that he's cunning. I also found references here at SM where Caesu seems to believe the Kalpoe brothers are innocent, then he flip flops back when called on that by other posters.

+ State of the Union 2006:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-10.html

Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternative energy sources -- and we are on the threshold of incredible advances.

+ please show me where i said the Kalpoes are innocent.

yet another vapid and shallow response not worth my valuable time to respond to, which is exactly what I was referencing about the childish games you like to play.

go research your own posts, I did it once and I will not do so again, my time is worth too much to me. You don't offer up a solution EVER, just recant some obvious fact such as the US and every other country out there to include China who is now gobbling up natural resources faster than most countries, needing to reduce our dependency on oil - YES WE KNOW WE NEED ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. This is the mind game play I referenced before so nothing new here, but you did post on a thread on the FP of SM to "go take a nice bike ride". Well that's pretty inane when for me to get to work I would have to ride 30+ milies to an airport on a freeway with NO bike lane plus I guess I'm just supposed to attach my suitcase and briefcase to my bike helmet? In fact, I've never seen a bike rack at our airport nor have I ever seen a single cyclist within miles of it.

It's insane to even have to respond to such as that. We don't have huge public transit in the US outside of our largest metro areas so I can't even take the rail or bus to the airport.

So see you exasperate how you waste my time for it's apparent you don't care to research the reality, you just supply some stupid link sourcing we rely too much on oil and that's your solution? your contribution? who are you kidding.

As for your flip flop on the K brothers, you go find it, I certainly did and I won't be wasting my time going to find it again.

The one thing I am sure of is you are sadistically smiling that you made me type this much in response to you. Well be advised, this is the LAST TIME CAESU. You're toast IMO.

[caesu]

His response to the energy crisis is to recommend we all take 'nice' bike rides to work and that the US is an energy addict. Frankly that's evidence of a most simple mind unable to wrap itself around complex issues, exactly my same fear regarding Obama. I frankly don't think Obama is smart but that he's cunning. I also found references here at SM where Caesu seems to believe the Kalpoe brothers are innocent, then he flip flops back when called on that by other posters.

+ State of the Union 2006:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-10.html

Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternative energy sources -- and we are on the threshold of incredible advances.

+ please show me where i said the Kalpoes are innocent.

yet another vapid and shallow response not worth my valuable time to respond to, which is exactly what I was referencing about the childish games you like to play.

go research your own posts, I did it once and I will not do so again, my time is worth too much to me. You don't offer up a solution EVER, just recant some obvious fact such as the US and every other country out there to include China who is now gobbling up natural resources faster than most countries, needing to reduce our dependency on oil - YES WE KNOW WE NEED ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. This is the mind game play I referenced before so nothing new here, but you did post on a thread on the FP of SM to "go take a nice bike ride". Well that's pretty inane when for me to get to work I would have to ride 30+ milies to an airport on a freeway with NO bike lane plus I guess I'm just supposed to attach my suitcase and briefcase to my bike helmet? In fact, I've never seen a bike rack at our airport nor have I ever seen a single cyclist within miles of it.

It's insane to even have to respond to such as that. We don't have huge public transit in the US outside of our largest metro areas so I can't even take the rail or bus to the airport.

So see you exasperate how you waste my time for it's apparent you don't care to research the reality, you just supply some stupid link sourcing we rely too much on oil and that's your solution? your contribution? who are you kidding.

As for your flip flop on the K brothers, you go find it, I certainly did and I won't be wasting my time going to find it again.

The one thing I am sure of is you are sadistically smiling that you made me type this much in response to you. Well be advised, this is the LAST TIME CAESU. You're toast IMO.

you can't find me saying that the K-brothers are innocent because i never did.
so as long as you don't come up with that we have to assume you were making things up.

i know however there was a discussion about that.
but you are mixing me up with someone else.

you can make stuff up what someone else said. that's a little difficult for me to check.
but i know exactly what i've said.

as for the bike rides.
i think a child can understand what i mean with that.
to preserve energy. replace the SUVs for smaller or more energy efficient cars.
lights bulbs who uses less energy. just a few things to save on the energy bills in each household.
and yes, if you can go on a bike to get your groceries or even cycle to work if that's close enough.
it would be a healthy exercise for a lot of obese americans too. saving on healthcare and energy costs.
of course i am talking here about the average population, not about an individual.

instead of drilling for more oil, or next to that. and working on alternatives.
cutting down on the demand would work very well.
it won't bring the price of oil down much - because of india/china like you rightly said.
but it will bring the individual energy bills down.
instead of feeding the addiction, beating the addiction would much be better.
even Bush realized this in the SOTU in 2006.
you might not believe in climate change - but you do believe in air pollution i think?
this will be lowered by saving on energy to.
and the wild live reserves don't need to be disturbed.

you don't have to agree with that all.
prefectly fine with me.

but no need to get al fired up about it or even start foulmouthing with references to excrement and the mentally handicapped like Tylergal did so many times in this now infamous thread what caused Klaasend to step in:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3010.0

[crazybabyborg]

Tylergal is very conservative in her thoughts and I am more middle of the road with a right leaning attitude.

Did you read she calls people pieces of excrement in her posts? Doesn't sound conservative to me. I sense a total lack of everyday manners.

Unfortunately, there are POS everywhere in this world.  I did read what she said and I have read worse from people here and in various other places.  Politics is a very emotional thing for some people.  What may not or may be acceptable goes right out the window in politics.  I have seen it everywhere.  I remember some religion discussions with  other posters that have turned into free for alls before. People have very strong feelings about such things and no matter what you can't change them.  I remember Widget and some of his extremely heated political debates before.  He left also, for the same reasons as Tylergal and he was on the far side of left all the time.  Even in 1776 the political debates were far from civil and resulted in a little name calling even back then.  If you are going to participate in political discourse you must bring your fire retardant suit to all sessions. Frankly, this is getting ridiculous.  If you come here you already have very strong leanings one way or the other and nothing can change that.  It's time to move on and I don't mean moveon.org either!

Speaking of MoveOn.org.................have you seen this? Be sure to watch them in order! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq30lapbC9c             (very effective except the draft doesn't exist. This one cost millions)

and then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecX-jQL19A             (this one? Very effective, cost nothing...........kind of sums up the different camps approach to the issues, IMO)

That ad has inspired lots of ingenius Americans to get their creative juices flowing. Here's another response, and I'd bet MoveOn wishes they could "re-think" it. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVThqpkSRcM&feature=related