Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011351454_missing16m.html
Silverdale mother and son missing after van found in water near Olympia

Authorities are searching for a missing Silverdale woman and her son near Olympia.
Monday, March 15, 2010
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2010/03/15/2011351781.jpg)
Shantina Smiley, also known as Kat Smiley and her son, Azriel James Carver.

By Susan Gilmore
Seattle Times staff reporter

Robert Simmons traveled to Thurston County Monday morning to join in the search for his fiancée and her 8-year-old son, who disappeared Saturday night on their way to Castle Rock.

Shantina Smiley was driving Simmons' gold van and was traveling with her son, Azriel James Carver. The van was found by an area resident partially submerged Sunday morning in Budd Inlet, about 12 miles from Olympia.

Simmons said he planned to meet Smiley at her stepfather's house in Castle Rock Saturday night and alerted authorities when she didn't show up.

"I love this woman. I'm hoping she shows up safe and sound," Simmons said, adding that he was joining the search. "It's the only place I want to be."

Thurston County chief criminal deputy Jim Chamberlain said authorities had a boat in the water Sunday searching for the pair on the theory they had abandoned their van and were walking along the shore. Monday, he said, a dive team was brought to the site.

No bodies were found in the car, and a wallet was found inside but Smiley's purse was gone. Chamberlain said if the woman and her son had packed an overnight bag for their trip, it also was gone.

"Right now we don't know what happened to this woman and her child," Chamberlain said. "We're hoping this will have a successful conclusion."

He said the woman made several stops en route, at two stores, a restaurant and a private home, and police are looking at store surveillance videos.

He said she apparently took a wrong turn on a back road west of Olympia. She stopped to get directions, but apparently took another wrong turn.

Chamberlain said she might have backed into the water while turning around and got the van stuck, but he doesn't know why she'd drive off a paved road toward the beach.

Simmons said it appeared the van was backed into the water. The doors were open.

According to Simmons, Smiley, who left her cellphone at home, called him about 6:45 to say her son was hungry and she was going to stop for food. She told him she was stuck in traffic and was driving off Interstate 5.
She called her grandfather about 10 p.m. from a house to say she was OK, but lost. She also said she'd been in an accident, but Simmons said when he saw the van it had just a little damage to a bumper.

Simmons drove to Castle Rock, expecting to meet her there about 10 p.m., but when she didn't appear he drove to Olympia and alerted the State Patrol.

He said he searched every piece of highway along the route she would have taken.

Simmons also said Smiley stopped at the Martin Way Diner for food about 9 p.m., purchased the food and walked away without taking it.

Chamberlain said the woman apparently fell in the restaurant parking lot. When she stopped by a house to ask directions, those in the house said she appeared disoriented and indicated she'd hurt her knee, apparently in the fall. "She looked a little out of sorts," Chamberlain said.

Lt. Chris Mealy, with the Thurston County Sheriff's Office, told The Associated Press that Smiley has no history of mental illness or any other problems.

Simmons said he and Smiley plan to marry in September in Silverdale, where she lives. He said she works in billing for a Kitsap medical group; she's also a portrait photographer.

He described her as 5-foot-9, 145 pounds, with five tattoos, including a Roman symbol on the back of her neck and tattoos on each of her wrists. She was last seen wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and blue jeans, and wears glasses.

The boy is 4-foot-8 with a blond Mohawk haircut. He was last seen wearing a dark top.

Simmons posted information on the search on his Web site, www.robbsimmons.com. "The past 36 hours have been nerve-wracking, full of pain and sorrow," he wrote. "I just want my fiancée and Azriel back home. I want to marry her and spend the rest of my days by her side."

He said Azriel's father lives in New York.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2792688/shantina_smiley_and_son_azriel_carver.html?cat=9
Shantina Smiley and Son Azriel Carver Missing in Western Washington
March 15, 2010

<snip>
The Thurston County Sheriff's Office doesn't want to commit to answers about the ongoing investigation at this time, only stating that they have no idea what has happened. It's unclear if the van ended up in Puget Sound after Shantina Smiley became lost while driving to their relatives, or if something more sinister has taken place. The question of whether the van was accidentally put into the water may have a sad answer when the statement from investigators is examined. According to KIRO News out of Seattle, to get to where the van was recovered, "investigators said the driver had to take a dead-end road, go down a winding driveway and onto the beach."That's not good news in an investigation such as this.

Shantina Smiley has a fiancé named Robert Simmons who had also told KIRO that she called him from a pay phone to let him know that she had forgotten her cell phone on the trip. They also talked to Smiley's grandfather, who stated that she had called him late on Saturday night to tell him she had become lost and needed further directions on how to get to his house. It turns out that she was only a few miles from her destination according to the call, but it has not been officially confirmed that Shantina Smiley and her son were that close to their relatives house yet. We have attached an image of Shantina Smiley and Azriel Carver if anyone has information about where they might be. Contact 360-493-2222 if you have any information.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/03/shantina_smiley_and_son_azriel.php

Shantina Smiley and Son Azriel Are Missing After Their Van Is Found in Puget Sound
Monday, March 15, 2010

(http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/image299.jpg)
The van Smiley was driving when she disappeared. Police found it partially submerged in water.

On Saturday night, Shantina Smiley and her eight-year-old son Azriel were driving from Silverdale to Castle Rock to visit her stepfather. They haven't been seen since.

The gold van driven by the 29-year-old portrait photographer was recovered later that night. Its doors were open, and it was partially submerged in a cove in Budd's Inlet, 12 miles away from Olympia.

Inside the van police found Smiley's wallet. Her credit cards and identification were still in it, but her purse was missing.

Thurston County authorities say Smiley has no history of mental illness. But the events leading up to her disappearance are certainly strange.

Smiley left Silverdale with Azriel at 5 p.m. About an hour and a half later, she called her fiancee Robb Simmons to ask if he could bring the cell phone she'd forgotten at home. She also said Azriel was hungry, and that she'd be pulling off I-5 to get some food.

Simmons says that Smiley stopped at the Martin Way Diner around 9 p.m. But after buying food she left without taking it, then fell down in the parking lot.

Smiley called her grandfather around 10 p.m. from a stranger's house to tell him she was lost, but OK. The people who helped her place the call said she appeared disoriented. Smiley told her grandfather she'd been in an accident, but investigators found only minor damage to the bumper when they recovered her van.

Simmons says his fiancee is 5'9'' and around 145 pounds. She has five tattoos, including a Roman symbol on the back of her neck and tattoos on each of her wrists. Her son Azriel is 4'8'' with a blond mohawk.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAENDoVEXg9_6-EEEzh7GRnemN9wD9EFC7JG0
(http://Woman, son missing after van found on Wash. beach)
Monday, March 15, 2010

OLYMPIA, Wash. — A woman heading to her stepfather's house was "beyond lost" when she and her 8-year-old son took one wrong turn after another through the backroads of Thurston County and onto a private Puget Sound beach, authorities said Monday.

The minivan driven by Shantina Smiley, 29, was found partially submerged Sunday with its doors open. A wallet containing Smiley driver's license, some cash and credit cards were found in the van, but neither she nor her son was anywhere in sight.

"Apparently she got stuck and abandoned the car," said Lt. Chris Mealy of the county sheriff's office. There was no indication that a crime took place inside the 2005 Dodge Caravan, he added.

Detectives have traced Smiley's path from her home in Silverdale to the far reaches of Thurston County, more than 50 miles north of her stepfather's house in Castle Rock in Cowlitz County and far from any road that would have led her there.

Mealy said Smiley had called her fiance Saturday night in northwest Olympia to update him on her location because she had left her cell phone at home. An employee at an east Olympia diner where she bought a corn dog told investigators she left without her purchase and then tripped and fell walking back to her van, but Mealy said the fall was not serious.

The elderly couple who lived nearby said they let Smiley use their phone to call her grandfather, gave her son a piece of pizza, and then directed her back to the freeway. She wasn't heard from again.

"The homeowners said she acted nervous because she was lost," Mealy said. She was not injured but spoke of an accident, which investigators believe may have been a reference to falling down at the diner.

Mealy said that as she left the home, Smiley made another series of driving errors that eventually led her to a hard-to-find dirt path and driving onto the beach.

"It gets dark up there. It gets really, really dark," Mealy said. "I was there Sunday afternoon. I had trouble finding that trail in the daylight."

Friends and family described Smiley as a responsible, mature, rational woman. She has no history of substance abuse, Mealy said.

Her fiance, Robb Simmons, and Smiley's stepfather began searching for Smiley and her son, Azriel Carver, after she didn't arrive at their planned meeting spot Saturday. Azriel is a second-grader at Vinland Elementary in the North Kitsap School District, according to school principal Charley McCabe.

"I have no idea of why she would have ended up down that road," Simmons wrote on his Web site.

Mealy said Smiley has "no friends or relatives or lovers or boyfriends in Olympia or Thurston County."

"Somebody somewhere knows something," Mealy said. "She could be missing voluntarily. Something untoward could have happened to her. She could have done something untoward to her son. We have no clue."

This article I found is now 2 days old, but it has a timeline, which can be useful:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d14-Olympia--Desperate-search-for-mother-and-8year-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinister

Desperate search for Shantina Smiley & 8-year old son; fiance says could be 'sinister' (Timeline)
March 14, 2010

March 14, 2010 - (VIDEO) A desperate search for 29-year old Shantina Smiley and her 8-year old son Azriel Carver is underway in Thurston County. They have been missing since Saturday evening.

Description of Shantina Smiley and her son, Azriel Carver:

Shantina Smiley - 29 yrs.
5'9" tall; 140 lbs.
Dark brown hair
Brown eyes

Azriel Carver - 8 yrs.
4'2" tall; about 100 lbs.
Blond hair, mohawk style
Brown eyes

During a phone interview with Examiner.com late Sunday evening Smiley's fiance, Robb Simmons, pleaded:

"Please, if you have Shantina, let her go. Please let her and Azriel go. Please leave them somewhere safe where we can find them. She is my fiance, I want to marry her and spend the rest of my days with her."

TIMELINE:

Saturday:

4:15 p.m. - Simmons stated that at around 4:15 pm. Saturday Smiley called Simmons from their home to let him know she was on her way from their Silverdale home to her visit her stepfather in Castle Rock.

Simmons planned to meet Smiley in Castle Rock later because he had a Boy Scout event to attend that afternoon.

As it turned out, Simmons got out early and was planning to head to Castle Rock on his motorcycle, as Smiley had borrowed his van.

Simmons said Smiley was excited to visit with her step-father who she had not seen in some time. She forgot her cell phone at home.

6:47 p.m. - Simmons said Smiley stopped at a Handy Pantry and called him from a pay phone.

Before 10 p.m. - Smiley stopped at Martin's Café to get food for her son, Azriel.

Around 10 p.m. - Shortly after leaving the café, around 10 p.m., Smiley stopped at a stranger's home to borrow a phone to call her grandparents in Brinnon to let her know she was okay. . She could not reach Simmons because his cell phone battery had died, and was in a poor cellular reception area.. She called her grandfather in Brinnon instead, telling him she was safe and on her way to Castle Rock.

The home where Smiley made that call was 4 or 5 miles, Simmons said, from where the van was found the next morning.

Around midnight - When Smiley did not arrive at her stepfathers home in Castle Rock and no one heard from her, Simmons said he and Smiley'sstepfather drove up and down the highway looking for her. They contacted police and put out a request to check on Smiley and her son.

Police, Simmons, and Smiley's stepfather had no luck finding Smiley and her son.

Sunday:

10:30 a.m. - On Sunday morning her van was spotted in the waters of Dana Passage, which is just north of Olympia. Both doors were open and her wallet was inside but her purse was gone.

The Oregonian Reported that Sunday morning local resident Jim Pribbenow was alerted by a neighbor to the gold 2005 Dodge Caravan on private beachfront property around 10:30 a.m.

“The back hatch and the side door was open,” Pribbenow said. “The front end had gone in the mud and you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.” (the van was back end in the bay)

Simmons, told Q13Fox News that things aren't adding up and he is hoping nothing sinister could have happened to Smiley and her son. He says it doesn't add up that she would even be in the area of Dana Passage.

"Being that it was down a dead-end road, and then going down a dirt road around a bluff to the water makes no sense," said Simmons, "she would not go down that road, it's a dead-end."

Simmons says they don't have any friends in that area, and is hoping nothing sinister may have happened.

Simmons also said he is in contact with Smiley's ex-boyfriend, and her Son’s Father in New York City.

"I'm scared that something bad happened," said Simmons, " and I just want to say to whoever has them, send them home please, just drop them off somewhere, let them be found, let them come home, let them be safe."

Simmons described them as a "Scout" family, heavily involved with the cub scouts, and friends say she is responsible, and very loving, and has no history of drug use.

Detectives say anyone with information on Smiley and her son can call Thurston County Crime Stoppers at 360-493-2222, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at 360-786-5500 or 9-1-1.

Something is not right.
She would have already made contact.

what about that last phone call. who was that stranger ?

What part of Scout training told you to stop and make a phone call from a complete stranger in the middle of the night ..10 p.m. ??

10 a.m... the car is found in a parcarious situation that does not even make sense..

Then again making a phone call from a stranger does not make sense..


I will take a long shot... ::MonkeyNoNo::
It is a set up... She was sent down the wrong roads on purpose..
She was followed and Helped Out.
If LE is fast maybe they can catch the ass that did this..

On the other hand maybe she walked off into the woods and is now Lost.
Maybe she will come walking out with her son today with stories of sleeping under bushes to stay warm..
She seems a little ditsy.. So lets hope and pray for the best.

"We don't have a suspect because we don't know if it's a crime," said Mealy. "Our options are open. We're not saying it's foul play and we're not saying it's not, and we're not saying she didn't voluntary leave."

"We can't explain what the hell she was doing out there, if she was even out there at all," the lieutenant said.

Divers searched the waters for a second day Tuesday, but found nothing.

Asked whether it's possible that they got lost in the nearby woods, Mealy said that there are too many houses with porch lights on for them to not have been able to get help.

"This woman had no enemies, no history of domestic abuse and no spousal abuse. From all indications she was a very stable woman, a very loving woman," said Mealy. "And she had a job as a medical coder."

"I don't have any freaking clue what happened."



Oh Chit..  ::MonkeyEek::

They better find that stranger phone call.... jmho

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shantina-smileys-disappearance-stumps-cops/story?id=10116896

Hi Edward...I snipped this from an earlier post

Smiley called her grandfather around 10 p.m. from a stranger's house to tell him she was lost, but OK. The people who helped her place the call said she appeared disoriented. Smiley told her grandfather she'd been in an accident, but investigators found only minor damage to the bumper when they recovered her van.

.
I think they know who the "stranger is ??

This has me going hmmmmm.... I don't think I've heard any confirmation from Simmons (the car owner) that this was new damage...

A lot of weird things about this story...

Good find Sea Searcher, I missed that..

I guess we have nothing...

With all the porch lights on ..WTF ?

What if she called after she landed the vehicle in the lake ?? and that was the accident she was referring to ?
I wonder if the helpful people that allowed her to call her grandfather, actually had seen her get into a vehicle or she just walked off into the night after using there phone ???
Maybe she was walking Out of the area and is not by the vehicle at all ?? Maybe lost in another part of the forrest ?

Population in July 2008: 2,120. Population change since 2000: -0.5%

READ MORE STATISTICS HERE:

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Castle-Rock-Washington.html#ixzz0iNv9clWd

Quote page 2 readers comments... This person is responding to some other poster..



Wantmy, I work at the Martin way diner..your stepmom and Azriel were in about 9 pm Saturday. They ordered a corn dog and tater tots to go, and payed for them, but while I was cooking their dinner, I watched them get up and leave. I didn't think too much about it, but they never came back. My waitress asked me what should we do with their order, and I told her to just wait..they might come back..My waitress told me that the woman seemed drunk, but the kid told my waitress. "Mommy hit her head". We wondered if she might have a concussion. We reviewed our security tapes, and she fell down outside the restaurant. She might have had a concussion..I don't know if she was a drinker or not, but she didn't order any alcohol at our place..I hope they're ok..I ended up taking that dinner home for myself, and it eats at me that I might have take azreils last meal..


Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/14/1172699/woman-and-8-year-old-son-missing.html?pageNum=2&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container#ixzz0iO2AE4dj

My opinion is based on the above quote..

She is in real trouble..

LE should not have wated there time searching the water..
This woman could be on the side of a road in a Coma !
Her son by her side.

They need EVERYTHING out and searching NOW.

LE is close enough to get Coast Guard Assistance.. they have special equipment to find bodies. they can fly over in a C-140 and map the area looking for both of them.

Of course it takes more then LE scratching there heads and saying I do not know what the hell happened to them.. ::MonkeyMad::




 

I called it in.

I don't think so...I snipped this from Fox's article..which is where I first heard the story..

<SNIP>
Mealy said Smiley had called her fiance Saturday night in Olympia to update him on her location because she had left her cell phone at home. An employee at an Olympia diner where she bought a corn dog told investigators she left without her purchase and then tripped and fell walking back to her van, but Mealy said the fall was not serious.

The elderly couple who lived nearby said they let Smiley use their phone to call her grandfather, gave her son a piece of pizza, and then directed her back to the freeway. She wasn't heard from again.

"The homeowners said she acted nervous because she was lost," Mealy said. She was not injured but spoke of an accident, which investigators believe may have been a reference to falling down at the diner.
<SNIP>
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/16/mother-son-lost-washington-minivan-shantina-smiley/?test=latestnews

This seems to imply that she still had the van at this point.. coupled together with the timeline and Simmons's comment that this elderly couple was 4-5 miles from the van..there wasn't enough time to walk to the house..it's a good thought tho...

I would not draw this conclusion...slipping/falling referring to it as an accident ?? It was described as minor as well...I think there's more to this...just a hunch

Here's an update... Recovering Alcoholic ..having a relapse ? maybe no connection

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-031410-missingmomandson,0,6651388.story

NEW DETAILS: Missing Mom's Fiance Appears on FOX News, Reveals More About Her
Shantina "Kat" Smiley's fiance says she is a recovering alcoholic and suffered a relapse last week

Mother and Son Missing

Shantina Smiley was heading to her stepfather's house when she and her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, took one wrong turn after another through the back roads of Wash. state and onto a private Puget Sound beach. (http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10002821.html)

Not sure where to put this...but wanted people to pray...pray...pray...that they are found safe.  I believe that they have found the van submerged in water...but have not found the two.  Move this post if it needs to be elsewhere.  Thanks.

We already have a thread for Shantina Smiley at Scared Monkeys:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7384.0

I appreciate your caring and interest in this case, but it is posted OT in Chelsea's thread.  I would appreciate it if you would check in the Missing Person's area first.  If you don't see a thread for the case, you can create one, or ask a mod or admin to help you make one.  Having to move posts is extra work, btw.  MuffyBee

Moving this post over to Shantina Smiley's thread.  MB

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html
Fiancé of missing mom sharing more information with police

by DREW MIKKELSEN / KING 5 News

Posted on March 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM

Updated today at 6:24 PM

OLYMPIA, Wash.  - There is new information about the missing Kitsap County woman and her son. Her fiancé says she's a recovering alcoholic and recently relapsed because of a lot of stress in her life.

Detectives said Robb Simmons has started to share a lot more about his relationship with Shantina Smiley, but it hasn't helped them solve the mystery.

Late Tuesday afternoon, we found out detectives were looking at surveillance video from a diner in Olympia, one of the last places the mother and son were seen Saturday night.

Shantina's van was found Sunday morning with the doors and back hatch wide open, abandoned and partially submerged on a Puget Sound beach.

Shantina and her 8-year-old son Azriel were supposed to drive from Silverdale down to Castle Rock Saturday evening, but they never even got close. Her family has no idea what happened.

On Tuesday her fiancé revealed she had been under stress lately. He said he's been having health issues and fears he might have cancer. So this past week he suggested they get married.

That's when she started drinking again. But he does not think that played any role in what happened.

"The idea she would stop and drink is not a realistic thing. I do not see her doing that, I don't see herself doing that putting herself at risk, getting in trouble with the law, putting her son at risk," he said.
(snipped)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011362230_missing17.html


Missing mom is recovering alcoholic, fiancé says

Despite searches by divers, boats and aircraft, investigators have yet to turn up any solid leads in the weekend disappearance of a Kitsap County woman and her 8-year-old son.

By DONNA GORDON BLANKINSHIP

The Associated Press

Despite searches by divers, boats and aircraft, investigators have yet to turn up any solid leads in the weekend disappearance of a Kitsap County woman and her 8-year-old son.

Shantina "Kat" Smiley, 29, of Silverdale, and her son were going from their Silverdale home to her stepfather's house in Southwest Washington when they vanished.

The van Smiley drove was found Sunday, abandoned and partially submerged in water on a Puget Sound beach in the Olympia area.

"It's almost like she vanished out of thin air," said Chelsie Woodard, 32, of Castle Rock, Cowlitz County, whose father used to be married to Smiley's mother.
(snipped)

Her myspace:

http://www.myspace.com/neiko_82

(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/28/m_101c4e6412c740c3b659ddd01670f63b.jpg)

If she went to one house for directions maybe she went to another house for more directions?
The van was found in the water or by the water? It was off the road, like maybe the brake wasn't pulled and it rolled?

This is sad, she seemed like everything was going good, no reason to walk away. Seems like she loves her fiance and his kids, just graduated from school. Her fiance and her are den leaders for their sons, how cute is that. She seemed really happy. I can see however that his possibly having cancer would hit her hard. She was a single mom probably struggled then found the perfect guy. The thought of losing him would be hard for her. I don't think that would make her run away but rather to him.
I hope she and her son will be found, safe and sound, very soon

They are either lost in the woods, (but they are a scout fam right?) someone followed and they have met with foul play or she did drink and/or hit her head and  may have become 'not herself' and distraught and thought the only way out was to end things for the both of them.  God please let them be just lost with a Mayberry type LE not able to find them!!!!!

No problem...I looked and didn't see one...must have missed it.  Just wanted to briefly mention it...that's all.  I'm new to this and still finding my way around.

It says search called off due to her mental state...  WHAT ????????????????/


"Detectives say they're trying to learn all they can about Smiley's emotional state."



Unfreakingbelieveable.............. ::MonkeyMad::

Here we go again where LE sits on a finger and twirls round and round instead of an all out search effort for this little boy and his mother.

http://www.king5.com/news/Father-of-missing-boy-picks-up-search--88194812.html


Father of missing boy picks up search for Silverdale woman, son

by DREW MIKKELSEN / KING 5 News

Posted on March 17, 2010 at 8:20 AM

Updated today at 8:41 AM

OLYMPIA, Wash.  -- Thurston County deputies have called off the search for a missing Silverdale mother and her young son, but a new person is picking up the effort: the father of the missing boy.

Jay Carver is the father of Azriel, the eight-year-old who's gone missing, and the former boyfriend of the boy's mother, Shantina Smiley. Carver flew in to SeaTac Airport late Tuesday night from New York, and says he will go into the woods around Olympia today, determined to find his boy.

The mother and son disappeared over the weekend while on their way to Castle Rock. The only clue was their van was found partially submerged in Budd Inlet in Olympia.

Carver says he hasn't seen his son in years, but knows he is a good kid.

"We've been actually talking and I was going to actually try and come out and see him this summer but - well, here I am," said Carver.

Carver says he can't begin to guess what led up to Shantina and Azriel's disappearance, but he says he's determined to be the one to solve this mystery. Carver said he planned to rent a car and drive to Olympia, where his former partner and their boy was last seen Saturday night.

"All I know is I want to get into the woods and just find him and I'm going to look for him," said Carver. "I don't know what's going on with the search and everything. I heard it's been called off, but I'm going to go out there and I'm going to find him."

Fiance of missing mom shares more information

Smiley's current boyfriend and fiance said she's an alcoholic who had been under a lot of stress and relapsed last week. But he says she would never endanger the boy.

Detectives said Robb Simmons has started to share a lot more about his relationship with Shantina Smiley, but it hasn't helped them solve the mystery. On Tuesday Simmons revealed she had been under stress lately. He said he's been having health issues and fears he might have cancer. So this past week he suggested they get married.

That's when she started drinking again. But he does not think that played any role in what happened.

"The idea she would stop and drink is not a realistic thing. I do not see her doing that, I don't see herself doing that putting herself at risk, getting in trouble with the law, putting her son at risk," he said.

Detectives say they're trying to learn all they can about Smiley's emotional state and trying to determine if she had any mental or physical health problems Saturday night. She has no history of such problems.

Search efforts in the water and the woods around the beach wrapped up late Tuesday.

Police say Shantina is 5-foot-9, 140 pounds, with dark hair. Simmons says she has numerous tattoos, including one on her neck, and both wrists. She also had a couple of lightning bolts on her back. Azriel is 4-foot-2, 100 pounds, with a blond mohawk.

The search for Shantina and Azriel was called off late Tuesday afternoon and no new searches are planned.

The Sheriff’s Office is asking for the public’s help with any information on Shantina and her son. Contact the Sheriff’s Office at 360-786-5530 or 5500.

I can't believe it either Edward...even tho I'm leaning toward her running off...I think because of the situation and how it's developed, they should still be looking for her and her son.

VANISHED: Search Called Off For Missing Mom And Son As Details Emerge About Her Emotional State
Shantina "Kat" Smiley's fiance says she is a recovering alcoholic and suffered a relapse last week

Q13 FOX News Online & Associate Press

11:33 PM PDT, March 16, 2010


THURSTON COUNTY - Investigators have called off the ground and water searches for a missing mom and son.

Detectives say they have no solid leads in the disappearance of Shantina 'Kat' Smiley and her son, Azriel Carver.

They continue to work the case but have given up on the search and rescue operation.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County Sheriff's office says, "We're working on a bunch of different theories. We really haven't closed any possibilities yet," Mealy said. "We're not leaning toward one theory or another right now."

They still have hope that they would find the pair alive. Meanwhile, investigators continue to question the mother's emotional state the day they vanished.

Q13 FOX News spoke to Smiley's fiancee Wednesday, "My mother always told me to Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I understand that this is day three. I want it to end on a good note but I have to make that space in my heart and my soul in case we don't get the news that we want" says Robb Simmons.

Her fiance, Ronn Simmons, appeared on FOX News Tuesday saying, "She's a recovering alcoholic and she had a recent relapse last week because I'm having medical issues right now."

However, Simmons claims that his fiance would not have been drinking when she disappeared Saturday night. He says, "She would not get in the car and do something like that. She would not put her son at risk because she loves her son too much."

Simmons has no idea where his fiancee and her son is. The family searched for hours the day both disappeared.

Smiley, 29, of Silverdale, and her son Azriel were driving from their Kitsap County home to her stepfather's house in southwest Washington when they vanished.

The van Smiley drove was found Sunday, abandoned and partially submerged in water on a remote Puget Sound beach in the Olympia area.

"It's almost like she vanished out of thin air," said Chelsie Woodard, 32, of Castle Rock, whose father used to be married to Smiley's mother.

Investigators were talking to people who know Smiley or her son and those who may have met her as she drove through the back roads of Washington state on Saturday night. Her fiance, Robb Simmons said Tuesday that Smiley is a recovering alcoholic who relapsed last week.

Simmons said she had been under stress lately. He had been having health issues and fears he might have cancer, and suggested this past week that they get married, he added.

But he said he doesn't believe the relapse played any role in her disappearance.

"The idea she would stop and drink is not a realistic thing," he told the television station. "I do not see her doing that, I don't see her doing that, putting herself at risk, getting in trouble with the law, putting her son at risk."

Carie Tonovitz, of Silverdale, said in an e-mail Tuesday that Smiley was a good mother who was very wrapped up in her son's life. Tonovitz, Smiley and Simmons are den leaders of their sons' Cub Scout group.

"Kat and Robb are cute to see together, great parents, good people," Tonovitz wrote. "Kat and Robb are very involved in Scouts, Kat going so far as to sleep on the gym floor a couple of weeks ago with the Cub Scouts. I snuck home because I was unwilling to do that."

Detectives say they're trying to learn all they can about Smiley's emotional state.

http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-031410-missingmomandson,0,6651388.story?page=1

What about the little boy? I bet right about now his mental state is saying, "can someone flipping help me out here?"

Do the police not think that people with drinking problems ever run into trouble or get taken? What if she was walking along the road and someone forced her and the boy into the car? Or god forbid killed her and took the boy and is holding him. So many awful things that could have happened, I just don't get why they need time to think about it. Think later and go and search every where!

My nightmare is that he is dead of Hypothermia because he stayed by his dead mothers side, who hit her head "As the son is quoted saying to a waitress" and passed out and died in a Coma..

Everybody from the restaurant employees to the people who let her call on a phone Could have called police, not for arrest but for the safety of the boy and for concern for the woman's well being.

This generation of "Lets not get involved" is making me ill.
Now look at the police because her boyfriend makes a comment... It is disturbing.

jmho

exactly!

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88274362.html


Search for missing mom, son resumes after items found on beach

by Denise Whitaker & KOMO Staff

Originally printed at http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88274362.html

SEATTLE -- Authorities have resumed their search for the woman who abandoned a van on a remote Puget Sound beach over the weekend and disappeared with her 8-year-old son.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County sheriff's office said a boat is searching the Boston Harbor area with a bloodhound on board, to try to pick up the scent of 29-year-old Shantina "Kat" Smiley of Silverdale and her son Azriel Carver. Dogs are also searching the roads and the area surrounding the beach.

The search was back on Wednesday after investigators received a tip from an area resident, who said someone had knocked on this door late Saturday night or early Sunday morning. The resident said he did not answer the door and did not think the event was significant at the time.

"They didn't think much of it until later when they contacted the sheriff's office," said Mealy.

Investigators searched the beach on Wednesday and recovered several items that washed up on the beach overnight. Mealy said the items include two mismatched leather shoes, a half-full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler and an orange ball.

"They were on the tide line, you know, the water would come up and recede, come up and recede," Mealy said. "We don't want to put a whole lot of importance on this other than to recognize them as (whether) having come from the van."

Detectives are working with Smiley's fiance Robb Simmons to determine whether those items did, in fact, come from the van.

The missing boy's father, Jay Carver, was on the scene of the search on Wednesday, hoping for any signs of his son. Carver flew in from Buffalo, N. Y. late Tuesday night in hopes of aiding searchers.

"Basically, I wanna see if I can help with any of the searches or what not that they're getting going to be doing in other areas. But basically, right now, I'm just getting the background and ... trying to find my boy," he said.

Smiley and her son were headed to her stepfather's home when they disappeared over the weekend. The van Smiley drove was found Sunday abandoned and partially submerged in water on a remote Puget Sound beach.

"It's almost like she vanished out of thin air," said stepsister Chelsie Woodard, 32, of Castle Rock, whose father used to be married to Smiley's mother.

On Wednesday investigators obtained additional surveillance footage from a store in Olympia that captured Smiley looking at a map with the store's clerk at 8:02 p.m. Saturday.

Friends and family are befuddled, and authorities said the case baffles them, as well.

Earlier this week, Smiley's fiance said the woman had a drinking problem and relapsed last week. However, Robb Simmons doesn't believe Kat would do anything to endanger her son.

"To think that she would be drinking on the road with her son, that's an insane idea. I don't believe that would happen," he said.

Mealy said Wednesday that Thurston County detectives were aware of Smiley's emotional state and her problems with alcohol. He said Simmons is not a suspect.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22871727/detail.html

(http://www.kirotv.com/2010/0317/22864896_480X277.jpg)

Bottle Of Wine Emerges As New Clue In Case Of Missing Mother, Boy

Posted: 5:16 pm PDT March 17,2010Updated: 6:03 pm PDT March 17,2010
LACEY, Wash. -- Surveillance video taken the night 29-year-old Shantina "Kat" Smiley disappeared shows her buying a jug of wine that looks like one found half-empty on the beach near her partially submerged van.

The grocery store surveillance video -- taken at a West Olympia mini-mart and obtained by KIRO 7 Eyewitness News on Wednesday -- shows Smiley pulling the 1.5-liter bottle of wine from the store shelf, buying it and other items, and leaving with her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver.

Police on Wednesday confirmed to KIRO 7 that a wine bottle like the one Smiley purchased was found washed up on the beach overnight. It was capped, unbroken and half empty.

Earlier Wednesday, Smiley's fiancé, Rob Simmons, told the "CBS Early Show" that Smiley is a recovering alcoholic who had a recent relapse. But he said he believes alcohol had no role in her disappearance.

"I don't think alcohol is a factor. She loves her son too much," Simmons said. "She knows better than to go out and drive on the road. She doesn't want to get in any trouble with the law."

Smiley's brother, Travis Wallingford, agreed.

"She would never do that," he told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News reporter Richard Thompson.

Also found on the beach were two mismatched leather shoes, an inhaler that may have belonged to Azriel, a baseball and water bottles. The items may have come from the van.

The search was back on Wednesday afternoon after someone in the area recovered several items that washed up on the beach overnight.

In other developments, Azriel’s father, Jay Carver, flew to Sea-Tac Airport from New York Tuesday night to aid in the search for his son. Carver said he talked to his son two weeks ago by phone.
(snipped)

Link to the video showing her purchasing the wine:

http://www.kirotv.com/video/22871326/index.html

Screen capture from the video above:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub8/Wine.jpg)

Half empty ?

That is not enough wine to make me a stumbling drunk and I do not drink much.. Maybe giggly.. lol
" I am not a professional drinker "  A professional would have downed the whole damn thing and been looking for more.. mo.

Something is not right here..

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22878227/detail.html

Police: Item On Beach Belongs To Missing Mom


Mealy said the positive identification of the items does not change the direction of their investigation. Thurston County has a boat in the water scouring the shoreline for clues. Investigators also are examining Smiley's bank records and court and public records and talking to people.

Police told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News on Wednesday that a half-empty bottle of wine washed up on the beach near where the van was found. The bottle looked like the one surveillance video showed Smiley buying at a mini-mart the night she and her son disappeared. See full story. It was capped, unbroken and half empty.

Also found on the beach were two mismatched leather shoes, an inhaler that may have belonged to Azriel, a baseball and water bottles.

(http://www.kirotv.com/2010/0318/22879043_640X472.jpg)

Edward I watched the video, I see a mom who is talking with her son who is smiling and happy. The mom is buying wine, who knows if she had already being drinking up until that bottle, could have been. I bet drinking again made her feel like crap, maybe despirate even? Maybe out of control and fearful, a failure as a person and mother? 
Was it known if she had any weapons in the car? Did she own a gun? They need to check the near by woods. I don't like the sounds of this one at all, I think I am worried about a suicide.

I have no idea..

Happy to see they are searching again.

Me too. I am just concerned on what they will find.  ::MonkeyNoNo:: prayers being sent for their safty and well being.

Body Of Child Washes Up On Shores Of Fox Island

Posted: 2:25 pm PDT March 18,2010
Updated: 2:44 pm PDT March 18,2010

PIERCE COUNTY, Wash. -- The body of a child has washed up on the shores of Fox Island in Pierce County, sheriff's deputies said.

On Saturday, Shantina Smiley, 29, had been driving her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, in the van from their home in Silverdale to visit relatives in Castle Rock, where she grew up.

Since then, they have been the subjects of an intense search.

Investigators said Smiley and her son left Silverdale at about 5 p.m. on Saturday and that surveillance video showed the two at a West Olympia mini-mart at 7:50 p.m. She told clerks there that she was lost and video showed her looking at a map of downtown Olympia.

Surveillance video from the store showed Smiley buying a jug of wine with her son by her side. Her finance said Smiley was a recovering alcoholic who had a recent relapse.

Her next known stop was the Martin Way Diner on Fourth Avenue East in Olympia. She stopped there at about 9 p.m., ordered food, but left without taking it. Workers said she appeared to have trouble staying awake and she fell in the parking lot.

Smiley was then traced to a grocery store in Boston Harbor at 9:50 p.m. and then she stopped at the home of Dennis Williams in the 1400 block of 46th Avenue Northeast at about 10 p.m.

Sheriff's investigators said somehow the Dodge Caravan ended up partially submerged in Dana Passage with its doors open. To get there, investigators said, the driver had to take a dead-end road, go down a winding driveway and onto the beach.

On Thursday, authorities said a shoe that washed up on a Puget Sound beach over the weekend probably belonged to Smiley.

It is not known if the child's body is that of the missing boy.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/22881089/detail.html

OMG

Now they are reporting it appears to be the body of a boy  ::MonkeyTears::

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88469377.html

(http://media.komonews.com/images/100318_fox_island.jpg)

Boy's body washes up on Fox Island beach

by KOMO Staff

Originally printed at http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88469377.html

FOX ISLAND, Wash. - A boy's body has washed up in South Puget Sound, and a Thurston County official said it's possible that a missing 8-year-old boy could have washed ashore there.

The body was found Thursday afternoon on the shore of Fox Island, near the 1040 block of Paiute Road, said Nanette Tatom, spokesperson for the Gig Harbor Fire Department.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County sheriff's office said tidal currents could have carried a body from the Budd Inlet area, where 8-year-old Azriel Carver went missing late Saturday, to Fox Island over a period of days.

"Yes, absolutely," he said, when asked about the possibility.

However, Pierce County Sheriff's Office spokesman Ed Troyer cautioned that no positive identification of the body has been made, and that the dead boy appears to be about 10 years old.

Carver vanished Saturday night, along with his mother, Shantina "Kat" Smiley, 29, while on their way to Castle Rock from Silverdale.

Deputies have been searching for the missing pair ever since their minivan was found submerged in a small cove off Bud Inlet near North Olympia, with the doors open.

Dogs also searched the roads and the area surrounding the beach, but were unable to pick up a scent.

Deputies did recover several items that washed up on the beach Tuesday night that belonged to Smiley, including leather shoes, an inhaler and an orange ball. A half-full and corked wine bottle also was found.

The missing boy's father, Jay Carver, was on the scene of the search on Wednesday, hoping for any signs of his son. Carver flew in from Buffalo, N. Y. late Tuesday night in hopes of aiding searchers.

Smiley and her son were headed to her stepfather's home when they disappeared over the weekend.

"It's almost like she vanished out of thin air," said stepsister Chelsie Woodard, 32, of Castle Rock, whose father used to be married to Smiley's mother.

On Wednesday investigators obtained additional surveillance footage from a store in Olympia that captured Smiley looking at a map with the store's clerk at 8:02 p.m. Saturday.

Earlier this week, Smiley's fiance said the woman had a drinking problem and relapsed last week. However, Robb Simmons doesn't believe Kat would do anything to endanger her son.

This is a breaking news story. More information will be posted as it becomes available.

this story has been very strange from the beggining...

how sad....

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Childs-body-washes-up-on-Fox-Island-88473527.html

Child's body washes up on Fox Island

Credit: KING

by KING5.com Staff

Posted on March 18, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Updated today at 3:18 PM


FOX ISLAND, Wash. – A boy's body has washed up on the shores of Fox Island in Pierce County this afternoon. But, police say it's too soon to know whether it's that of an 8-year-old who disappeared with his mother from Thurston County last weekend.

The body is of a boy who is approximately 10-years-old, says Pierce County Sheriff's Department spokesman Ed Troyer. A shirt was pulled up over the boy's head. It's too early to say how the boy died.

Police have been searching for 8-year-old Azriel Carver and his mother, Shantina "Kat" Smiley, 29, of Silverdale since they disappeared last Saturday. Smiley's minivan was found partially submerged in Budd Inlet on Sunday.

Mike G is on the story on CNN HLN

Oh gosh...I am so sad to read this.  ::MonkeyTears::

maybe she got so lost and ended up on the beach and if she was intoxicated thought maybe that would be a good place to sleep it off, in the van, and start out to her step fathers again in the morning....

Child's body found during search for WA boy, mom
A child's body washed up on an island in Puget Sound on Thursday, and law enforcement officials say it could be an 8-year-old boy who went missing with his mother last weekend.

By DONNA GORDON BLANKINSHIP

Associated Press Writer

SEATTLE —
A child's body washed up on an island in Puget Sound on Thursday, and law enforcement officials say it could be an 8-year-old boy who went missing with his mother last weekend.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County sheriff's office said he got a call from Pierce County officials Thursday afternoon saying they were responding to a report that a child's body washed up on Fox Island, southwest of Tacoma.

The island is about 12 miles north of the remote Olympia beach where Azriel Carver and his mother, 29-year-old Shantina "Kat" Smiley, apparently abandoned a minivan Saturday.

Mealy says it's entirely possible the body is Carver's.

"The Dana Passage goes right up that way," Mealy said, referring to a tidal system between Olympia and Tacoma.

The minivan Smiley was driving was found Sunday, partially submerged with its doors open. A wallet containing her driver's license, some cash and credit cards was found in the van, but neither she nor her son was anywhere in sight.

Two mismatched shoes, a partially full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler and an orange ball have washed ashore since the van was found. Mealy said all the items apparently belonged to the boy or his mother.

People in boats, planes and on foot, as well as divers, have been searching the Boston Harbor area for the pair since Sunday.

Mealy said if the woman and her son went into the water of Puget Sound, they could be anywhere in the region because of the ferocity of the current.

Smiley was heading from her home in Silverdale to her stepfather's house in southwest Washington when she and her son vanished Saturday night. Silverdale is about 16 miles west of Seattle, across Puget Sound.

Besides searching the area, investigators have been looking at phone records and talking to people who know Smiley or her son or may have met her as she drove through the back roads of Washington state Saturday night. Her fiance, Robb Simmons, told authorities she was a recovering alcoholic who relapsed last week.

Mealy said there was no indication that a crime took place inside Smiley's 2005 Dodge Caravan.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011382321_apusmothersonmissing2ndldwritethru.html

The clothing matches Azriel's

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Childs-body-washes-up-on-Fox-Island-88473527.html

Report: 'Strong probability' Fox Is. body is missing boy

This is so sad

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22881089/detail.html

Clothing On Body That Washed Ashore Matches Boy's


Posted: 2:25 pm PDT March 18,2010Updated: 3:51 pm PDT March 18,2010

PIERCE COUNTY, Wash. -- The body of a boy has washed up on the shores of Fox Island in Pierce County, and officials say clothing matches that of the 8-year-old who is missing.

Shantina Smiley, 29, and her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, have been missing since Saturday.
(snipped)

how sad...I was hoping for a good outcome.  thanks for all of the updates.

Sheriff:  positive ID  on Nancy Grace

They took his body out by boat to MEdical Examiner's office

No COD yet

Body that washed ashore on Fox Island is missing boy's
Similar Stories Published: 03/18/10 5:09 pm

The child's body washed ashore on the beach of Fox Island has been identified as the missing 8-year-old boy from Silverdale, according to the Pierce County Sheriff's Office.

“It ended the way we didn’t want it to end, but we’re 99 percent sure it’s him," Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said. "He has the mohawk. He has the clothing. There’s nothing to lead us to believe it’s not him.”

The boy’s father was on the scene and fell to his knees and began to cry when he approached the site where the body was found.

The body has been collected and is on a Tacoma Fire Department boat on its way to the mainland, where it will be taken to the Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office for autopsy.

Investigators also have been looking at surveillance pictures of the 8-year-old boy taken shortly before he went missing Saturday.

The body was found in the 1000 to 1100 block of Paiute Trail, on the southern edge of Fox Island. Investigators initially said the body is that of a boy, approximately 9 to 10 years old.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/18/1114992/body-that-washed-ashore-on-fox.html

Poor little boy, he looked so happy in the store with his mom. It amazes me everyday just how much a little boy loves his mama. I pray he is happy in heaven above and playing on the wings of Angels. God rest your soul little guy.

No word yet on the mom?

The boy’s father was on the scene and fell to his knees and began to cry when he approached the site where the body was found.



 Even though I did read this hours ago I am still without words.
 I am speachless... and so very, very sad.

I know Edward it is just so sad, especially since in an article he said he didn't really know his son and had just began to talk to him. Such a missed opportunity for this young man and his son. It is heartbreaking.
I am concerned about the mom and what could have happened. I pray I am wrong and she didn't do this. I feel horrible inside about this story.. it is so hard, maybe because I have little boys? I don't know but oh gosh I feel so bad.

http://www.fox43.com/news/nationworld/kcpq-031810-boy,0,5079519.story
Search For Missing Mom Resumes Today; Son's Body Found On Fox Island
Pierce County deputies confirm to Q13 FOX News that 8-year-old Azriel Carver's body washed up on a beach Thursday.

Q13 FOX News Online & Associate Press Web Reporter
7:40 AM EDT, March 19, 2010
FOX ISLAND - The Pierce County medical examiner's office is planning an autopsy today to figure out how 8-year-old Azriel Carver died. The boy went missing along with his mother, Shantina Smiley, last weekend. Smiley is still missing. The search for her will resume today.

Police made the disturbing discovery of Azriel's body days after he and his mom vanished into thin air. The boy's body washed up on Fox Island Thursday.

When Jay Carver learned Azriel was missing, he hoped and prayed that it wouldn't end like this. He flew here from Buffalo, N.Y., this week and went to the beach where the body was found.

"This experience has shown me like you really don't know who you have in your life until they're gone," Carver said. "And it's sad."

"He had a great imagination, good sense of humor. He could have offered a lot to this world."

A woman walking on the beach spotted the body about 2 pm Thursday and called police. It didn't take long to figure out who it was.

"By the time we looked at the surveillance photos and we looked at the clothing on the boy we were pretty sure we knew who we had," said Pierce County Sheriff's Detective Ed Troyer. "But once the medical examiner and the detectives got here we were able to take a better look. We saw the Mohawk haircut. It's him."

Azriel and Smiley were on a short trip from Silverdale to Castle Rock Saturday evening when they disappeared. They were seen on surveillance video at an Olympia convenience store. Smiley, who is a recovering alcoholic, appeared to buy a jug of wine.

The next day, their van turned up on the beach near Olympia. A wallet containing Smiley's driver's license, some cash and credit cards was found in the van. Two mismatched shoes, an inhaler and an orange ball have washed ashore since the van was found. The items apparently belonged to the boy or his mother.

Then on Thursday, a half-empty jug of wine was found washed up nearby.

But what happened to his mother? Investigators believe if Smiley hasn't reached Fox Island yet, she soon will. If not, it is very possible that her body may have floated past the south end of the island.

"It's not unusual for a body to travel through a few different counties during a tide change, especially through here because the water moves really fast through some of these channels and we could have a body in Thurston County and through a tide change end up in King County," said Troyer.

A ground search along the beach turned up no sign of Smiley. Divers on a boat searched as well and a Coast Guard helicopter and sheriff's office plane flew overhead.

Investigators looked at phone records and talked to people who know Smiley or her son or may have met her Saturday night as she drove through back roads. Her fiance, Robb Simmons, told authorities she was a recovering alcoholic who had relapsed last week.

Meanwhile, Jay Carver has nothing left but regrets, because he hadn't seen his son in years.

"It tears me up inside," he says. "Nobody's gonna ever realize, like I said, if they're like any people who aren't playing the role of dad, let this be a lesson to you. It hurts."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88624222.html

Officials: Boy died of drowning; abuse reported

by KOMO Staff

Originally printed at http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88624222.html

SEATTLE - A day after a missing boy's body was found on a Puget Sound beach, an autopsy has found that his cause of death was "accidental drowning," according to the Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office.

Meanwhile, the search resumed for his still-missing mother as reports surfaced that she previously had been investigated for abusing and neglecting the youngster.

Thurston County sheriff's spokesman Chris Mealy said Friday that deputies in a boat were looking for Shantina "Kat" Smiley, 29, of Silverdale.

Smiley and her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, were last seen Saturday night, and her minivan was found partially submerged in a cove off Budd Inlet near North Olympia at about 11:15 p.m. Saturday.

Azriel's body was discovered Thursday by a local resident on a Fox Island beach - about 18 miles away - and Mealy said strong tidal action in the area easily could have carried the boy's body that far.

Meanwhile, Child Protective Services confirmed that it had received 10 complaints involving Smiley and her son over the past five years, and that three of the complaints had been investigated.

That portrait of the relationship between mother and son differed dramatically from an earlier statement by Smiley's fiance, Robb Simmons, that he didn't believe she would do anything to endanger her son.

According to CPS spokeswoman Sherry Hill:

• A report was filed in June 2005 that Carver suffered "serious physical abuse" by Smiley's former boyfriend. The complaint was investigated, and the boyfriend was arrested for assault - but never prosecuted.

• In March 2007, CPS investigated a complaint that Smiley had physically abused her son, but the complaint was closed as "unfounded."


 Azriel Carver

• In August 2007, the agency found that Smiley was negligent in caring for her son after she left him unsupervised while she was passed out from alcohol intoxication. The boy was placed under the care of relatives while Smiley received substance abuse treatment, then returned the next year to his mother's care.

• Another referral was made to CPS in April 2009 about Smiley and her son, but no details were immediately available. "We're still waiting to find out how much contact we had at this time," Hill said.

CPS will now conduct an extensive "fatality review," which involves going over every aspect of the case to see if mistakes were made by any agency along the way.

"We will look at all activity we had with the family ... in the fatality review," Hill said. "We're going to scrutinize every action."

Hill said it is not fair to blame CPS for the boy's death without further information.

"I dont believe it is fair to jump to that conclusion, when you have to look at people going through treatment and making an effort," she said.

"Any death of a child is tragic, and a child's death is even more troubling when that child has been served by the child welfare system and when a death is due to child abuse or neglect at the hands of an adult that was entrusted to care for them - it's even more heartbreaking. ... We continue to learn from these tragedies."

Searchers in the vicinity of Fox Island so far have found no sign of Smiley. The search is being coordinated by the Pierce County Sheriff's Office.

Deputies were able to recover several items that washed up on the beach in Budd Inlet on Tuesday night that belonged to Smiley, including leather shoes, an inhaler and an orange ball. A half-full and corked wine bottle also was found.

The missing boy's father, Jay Carver of Buffalo, N.Y., flew out to Washington state to aid in the search for his son. He said his heart sank when he heard the news that the boy's body had been tentatively identified.

"I was just hoping to find them safe somewhere to where I can come through and have them, and find them alive ... didn't play out that way," he said. "He could've offered a lot to this world. It's just a shame that he's not here."

Smiley and her son were headed from Silverdale to her stepfather's home in Castle Rock when they disappeared over the weekend.

Detectives have determined that Smiley turned off Interstate 5 in the Olympia area while enroute to Castle Rock, and was seen by several people who described her as appearing to be confused and lost.

A wallet containing Smiley driver's license, some cash and credit cards were found in the minivan, but neither Smiley nor her son was anywhere in sight.

"Apparently she got stuck and abandoned the car," Mealy said. There was no indication that a crime took place inside the 2005 Dodge Caravan, he added.

An employee at an east Olympia diner where she bought a corn dog told investigators that Shantina left without her purchase and then tripped and fell walking back to her van, but Mealy said the fall was not serious.

The elderly couple who lived nearby said they let Smiley use their phone to call her grandfather, gave her son a piece of pizza, and then directed her back to the freeway. She wasn't heard from again.

Mealy said that as she left the home, Smiley made another series of driving errors that eventually led her to a hard-to-find dirt path and driving onto the beach.

Smiley's fiance, Robb Simmons, said the woman had a drinking problem and relapsed last week.

From the last articles, it doesn't appear Azriel had a very good childhood.  I had hoped Azriel would be found safe, but it wasn't to be.  May he rest in peace.   ::MonkeyAngel::

Oh my gosh, poor little boy. RIP little boy, you are safe now.

How do you accidently drown in a van 1/2 submerged in water? What am I missing?

I doubt he was in the van when he died.

Maybe when the car was found it was lower tide.  Could be they tried to get out of the car but had a problem swimming to shore?  Maybe they couldn't swim?

O/T

cement strip the size and shape of a human body was found in the West Desert in Utah
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6666.new#new
post 978

See now that is why your are Klaas and I am not! Thank you, I was confused.

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/Father-speaks-about-sons-tragic-death
(Video Avail. at above link)
Father speaks about son's tragic death
Friday, March 19, 2010

    * Lorey Schultz
    * Posted by: Kate McGowan

WASHINGTON (WIVB) - "He's just a really good kid. It's a shame he's out of this world," said father, Jay Carver.

Jay is talking about his 8-year-old son, Azreil.

He spoke to News 4 Friday morning by phone, only hours after his son's body was found floating in the Puget Sound in Washington State.

"I can't really put my finger on why," he exclaimed. "She just basically made a series of bad decisions that ended up why my boy lost his life."

Jay flew across country a few days ago, after his son and former girlfriend, Shantina Smiley disappeared last weekend.

The mother and son, who lived out West, left home Saturday night en route to visit family, making several stops along the way.

Some of the stops were caught on surveillance.

Her van was eventually found abandoned on a beach, and she is still missing.

Jay was there as authorities carried his son's lifeless body ashore.

"Here we are on the beach. It sucks," he expressed.

The reality is just starting to set in.

After conducting his own investigation, Jay has his own thoughts on what might have happened.

"Basically what I'm speculating is, she took some medication and had a bad reaction to it," Jay explained.

His former girlfriend's driving habits were bizarre on the night they disappeared.

"Like if they told her to go left, she'd go the exact opposite."

For whatever reason, Jay now believes his son's mom ended up on the beach, possibly passed out, and unaware that the tide was moving in.

"The tides came in high or low, but that night, the tide pattern came in high and fast and left fast as well."

Jay remarked, "It's tough."

An autopsy will be conducted on Friday to determine the exact cause of death.

In the meantime, Jay hopes to bring his son's ashes back to Western New York by early next week.

A candlelight vigil is planned for Saturday at his sister's business on Grand Island.

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/88613542.html
Community Memorial for Azriel Carver

(http://media.wkbw.com/images/azriel.jpg)
GRAND ISLAND, NY (WKBW) -- There will be a community memorial for 8-year-old Azriel Carver on Saturday, March 20th.
Young Azriel went missing with his mother, 29-year-old Shantina Smiley in the State of Washington late last week.

Azriel's father, Jay Carver, is from Lancaster, NY, and went to Washington Monday to aid in the search.

Azriel's body was found on a remote shore Thursday, and the search continues for the missing Smiley.

The memorial will be held at 2413 Grand Island Boulevard in Grand Island, NY, at a dog grooming salon owned by a relative. There is also a memorial being planned in the Silverdale area in Washington.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/search-resumes-missing-mom-shantina-smiley/story?id=10148339&page=2
(http://a.abcnews.com/images/GMA/abc_shantina_smiley_100317_mn.jpg)

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Search-resumes-for-Shantina-Smiley-Fiance-Robb-Simmons-says-Please-pray-for-a-miracle
Search resumes for Shantina Smiley; Fiance Robb Simmons says 'Please pray for a miracle'
Friday, march 19, 2010

<snip>
Today the search resumed for Shantina. Police are assuming she, too, is in the waters of the Puget Sound. They were waiting Friday for low tide so they could search the waters near where her son's body was found.
<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031900532.html?hpid=sec-nation
No sign of missing Wash. mother; son drowned
Friday, March 19, 2010
(http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2010/03/19/PH2010031905630.jpg)
Members of Pierce County Sheriff's Metro Dive Rescue Team carry a stretcher ashore as they prepare to retrieve the body of a young boy found on Fox Island, Wash., Thursday, March 18, 2010. Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer is at right. Washington state authorities say they're "99 percent sure" that the child's body found in Puget Sound is that of an 8-year-old boy who vanished with his mother last weekend. (AP Photo/The News Tribune, Dean J. Koepfler) (Dean J. Koepfler - AP)
SEATTLE -- Another day of searching failed to turn up a missing Washington mother in the general area where her 8-year-old son's body was found on Thursday.

Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said Friday afternoon that a search plane was sent up to look for Shantina Smiley.
<snip>

http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=214701&cID=3
March 20, 2010

<snip>
SEATTLE (AP) — Still no sign of the young mother who disappeared last weekend with her 8-year-old boy in the Seattle area. The boy's body was discovered Thursday on an island beach, and an autopsy found he accidentally drowned. A local sheriff says he plans no searches for Shantina Smiley this weekend.
<snip>

OLYMPIA — The Thurston County Sheriff’s Department won’t search for Shantina “Kat” Smiley over the weekend. They’ll meet Monday morning to devise a strategy for early next week, said spokesman Lt. Chris Mealy.
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/20/search-missing-island-lake-woman-pauses-weekend/

Who was knocking on the door ?

Was it the child seeking help for his mom ?
or
Was it the mom seeking help to find her child ?

The son is dead... What of mom.

....

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/88741377.html
Remembering Azriel Carver
Saturday, March 20, 2010

(http://media.wkbw.com/images/azriel.jpg)
GRAND ISLAND, NY ( WKBW ) A young boy with a Western New York connection was found dead on the other side of the country earlier this week. On Saturday, relatives and friends gathered on Grand Island to mourn his loss.

Eight year old Azriel Carver's body was found washed ashore Thursday off a remote beach near Tacoma, Washington just several days after he and his mother disappeared.

His father, Jay Carver, is from Lancaster with family on Grand Island.

As the sound of "Amazing Grace" could be heard, family and friends of 8 year old Azriel Carver reflected on a life that ended too soon.

One family member noted, "Though Azriel was here with us for such a short time, he is always here in our hearts."

Azriel's body was found Thursday on the shores of Fox Island in Washington State. The 8 year old had been missing for several days along with his mother, Shantina Smiley.

The boy's father Jay Carver flew to Washington State last week to join in the search. Now, he is making arrangements to bring his son home.

Saturday, the 8 year old was remembered in prayer and with a poem.

Azriel's aunt, Dana Carver read this emotional passage..."Don't cry for me Daddy, don't cry for me Daddy, I'm right here though you cant see me. I see your tears, I visit you often, I go to work with you each day, and when it's time for you to close your eyes on your pillow is where I lay."

Other family members remembered Azriel as an upbeat young boy who was very funny and had a sense of humor like his dad.

As family and friends remembered Azriel, there are still many unanswered questions. Officials in Washington State are still searching for Azriel's mother Shantina, and looking into what happened. Tragically, these questions might never be answered.

A benefit event in memory of Azriel Carver will be held April 18th at "Macaroons" in Cheektowaga.

*********************************
Rest in peace, Azriel  ::MonkeyAngel::

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/20/search-missing-island-lake-woman-pauses-weekend/
Search For Missing Silverdale Woman Pauses for Weekend

Saturday, March 20, 2010

OLYMPIA — The Thurston County Sheriff’s Office has called off the search for Shantina “Kat” Smiley for the weekend. They will meet Monday morning to devise a strategy to locate the Silverdale woman, said spokesman Lt. Chris Mealy.

Smiley, 29, along with her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, was driving from their Silverdale home to her stepfather’s house in Castle Rock when they vanished on March 13. The van she was driving was found March 14, abandoned and partially submerged in water on a remote Puget Sound beach north of the Olympia area.

On Friday, Azriel’s body was found on a beach at the south end of Fox Island near Gig Harbor. The Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office ruled the boy’s death as an accidental drowning. He was a second-grader at Vinland Elementary in North Kitsap.

Mealy said there were no more clues to report Saturday. Now that Azriel’s body has been found, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office’s predominate theory — though not the only one — is that Smiley never got off the beach and wound up in the water, too. There were no sightings, and bloodhounds didn’t pick up scents away from the beach.

Based on how far out on the beach the van was found, it arrived there when the tide was at its lowest point, Mealy said. The water rose and washed them away. How that happened, nobody’s sure.

“The current is ferocious there,” Mealy said. “It’s not inconceivable at night, if one is disoriented or not thinking clearly, to wind up getting swept away by the water.”

Mealy asks anybody who has information to call the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at (360) 786-5530, or their local law enforcement at 911.

http://robbsimmons.com/

Robb Simmons Photo

 

As many of you may have heard, my Fiancé’ Shantina “Kat” Smiley and her son Azriel James Carver are currently missing, in the Olympia Area.

The past 36 hours have been nerve racking, and full of fear pain and sorrow. I just want  my Fiancé’ and Azriel back home .  I want to marry her, and spend the rest of my days by her side.

The media has been putting out mixed stories.         

I am keeping updates via my facebook page, search for Robb Simmons. I have posted a lot of pictures of Shantina & Azriel

After several years, Shantina had made contact with her Step Father in Castle Rock. We had planned to go down and visit them.

I had Cub Scout Training that was planned to finish at 6:30

Shantina called me twice around 4:15 to let me know she was heading out.  I asked her grab my phone charger, since my phone was near dead.

My training wrapped up at 4:30, I figured that she was already on the road heading to Castle Rock, so I proceeds to Castle Rock as well

I stopped in Toldeo-Vader to make quick repair, when she called me at 6:45 from a phone. She asked me if I could grab her phone, because she had left. I let her know where I was at. She was in the Olympia area, but wasn’t quite sure of where, Azriel was hungry, so she pulled off. She made complaint of being in the traffic. She gave me the destination address and told me she would be there shortly.

I arrived in Castle Rock around 7:40, and found her Step Father’s house.  We started to get worried about 9:00pm,  I began to check in with the WSP about accidents. Her step father and I drove around the area to see if we could spot her. I called her Grandparents house in Brinnon with her Step fathers phone. They had informed met hat she had stopped at a house in Olympia around 10:10, to use the phone, and ask for directions, and let them know she was ok.  We went back to the Step Fathers home until 12:00 when we headed up I-5 to Olympia, we checked the two rest stops on the way back. We got a few hours sleeps, headed back up I-5 at day break, got a phone charger, recharged my phone, and went back up to Olympia and back to Castle Rock.   During this time I was in vigilant contact with the authorities for any information.

We went to get a bit to eat, when I received a phone call from the Thurston County Sheriff’s office. The had found the Van.  In a follow up call, they informed me that they had to pull it out of the bay at the end of a dead end road. I immediately headed up there and say the van.  As many of you know, I usually have a camera on hand, besides being waterlogged, the van did have some damage, but no broken windows. There was no sign of Shantina or Azriel.

I spent about 6 hours on the location talking to the detectives. I left there around 5:30, and had to make numerous stops to field phone calls from numerous sources, including the media. I stopped at my childrens mother house to sit with them around 8:00pm

Last night they brought blood hounds over, and took scent item.

I have no idea of why she would have ended up down that road. I know that  our family want both her and Azriel back home safe and sound.

Please pray for their safe return.  I already talked with Azriel’s Father in New York. That is a hard call to make.

  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Why was it(the stepdads house) so easy for him to find but not her...?  Why didn't she just say okay I am STOPPING right here where I am at...and you come to me?  Or am I reading this wrong?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000864-504083.html
Shantina Smiley Still Missing Days After Son's Body Found
March 22, 2010
(http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/03/16/Shatina_Smieley-%2824%29_370x278.jpg)
Shantina Smiley and Aziel Carver (Credit: Personal Photo)
(http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/03/16/Shatina_Smieley-%2810%29_370x278.jpg)
Shantina Smiley (Credit: Personal Photo)

SEATTLE (CBS/AP) Four days after Azriel Carver's body was found on an island beach in Puget Sound, police have still found no sign of his missing mother, Shantina Smiley.
More...

This is so strange. I wonder what happened that night? do you think maybe she wondered away from the van, leaving her son asleep? Regardless of the outcome, I hope they find her soon. I bet the family is just so confused by all of this, it certainly doesn't make a lot of sense.

Something does not add up.
jmho

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/23/investigators-following-leads-case-missing-silverd/
Investigators 'Following up Leads' in Case of Missing Silverdale Woman

Monday, March 23, 2010

OLYMPIA — Thurston County Sheriff's detectives are still "following up leads" in an effort to find Shantina Smiley, but are not conducting any searches for the missing Silverdale woman.

Detective Lt. Chris Mealy said Monday that investigators are working on several tips that have come into their office. But there's still no sign of Smiley, 29, who disappeared March 13.

Smiley and her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, were headed from Silverdale to her stepfather’s house in Castle Rock when they vanished. The van she was driving, found the next day, was abandoned and partially submerged in water on a remote Puget Sound beach north of Olympia.

Carver's body was found Thursday on a beach on the south end of Fox Island, near Gig Harbor. The boy's death was found to be an accidental drowning.

Mealy asks anybody who has information to call the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at (360) 786-5530, or their local law enforcement at 911.

this is all very strange....

It sure is...it just doesn't seem to make sense to me...especially her route...it didn't seem like a difficult route...and there are stores I would think that she could have stopped at...not at a stranger's house.  Have you seen any reports on this stranger...this was her last phone call and the van was found a few miles from there.  I know that her behavior was very strange...but it still doesn't add up.  It sounded pretty difficult to get to the area where the van was found.  Mapquest reports the amount of time to travel from Silverdale to Olympia is a little over an hour.  She said that she was heading out around 4:15pm...she called Robb at 6:45pm from the Olympia area  (2.5 hours later) to ask him to grab her phone that she ended up forgetting (even though she had just used it twice to call Robb and he asked her to grab his charger).  Also, this sounds as though Robb wasn't going to be going back home before heading out...if he is asking her to grab his charger.  Yet, she waited until 6:45pm to ask him to grab her phone.  Why not call earlier?  She had already called him a few times before heading out (maybe she didn't want to disturb the scout meeting though).  When she spoke with Robb stating that she was only in Olympia...she wasn't able to tell him where in Olympia she was...though she said that she stopped off for food (that seems to be an easy way to explain where you are at)...I know when I travel and I get hungry or the kids get hungry I pull off of the main highway or Interstate...and find a close place to eat...if asked where I was...even if I had never been in the area...I could say that I was calling from so in so...and its off of EXIT ##...I could give some location.  She didn't seem to be in a great hurry to leave Olympia...I wonder if she was stalling or waiting around to meet someone?  Why did she leave so quickly from Martin Way Diner at around 9pm?  She left the food behind and headed the opposite of where she should be going...The main highway that she would have taken to Castle Rock was right by her.  Maybe the directions that she was looking for wasn't Castle Rock.  Maybe with all of the recent stress (including a relapse) maybe she was meeting up with an old/new friend...and was lured into that bizarre area...I just believe that someone had to tell her how to get to that area...it doesn't seem to be one that you can just "end up at."  Here are the directions from Martin's Way Diner to the area where the van was found: http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Olympia&1s=WA&1a=2423+4th+Ave+E&1z=98506-4820&1y=US&1l=47.04604&1g=-122.86668&1v=ADDRESS&2c=Olympia&2s=WA&2a=[8100-8499]+Zangle+Rd+NE&2z=98506&2y=US&2l=47.15088&2g=-122.87951&2v=BLOCK not sure how to make that show link or how to paste pics here.
 It's late...but these thoughts came to mind.

did she take her son inside with her when she was at the diner where she left the food after she had ordered and paid for it?
If she left him in the van alone, wonder if a stranger had gotten into the van and Kat saw the stranger getting into the van where her son was and went running out there and was forced to get into the van by this stranger who then directed her to drive where she ended up? someone who had been following her?  ::MonkeyEek::

anything could have happened in this strange saga...I am totally confused by all of this....

Funeral for missing woman's son

A small, private funeral is planned Wednesday for an 8-year-old boy whose body was found washed up on Fox Island last week.

Azriel Carver's 29-year-old mother is still missing

Thurston County detectives say they are following up on leads, including several tips, but they've called off an active search for Shantina Smiley.

The Silverdale woman and her son disappeared on a trip to Castlerock on March 13. Her abandoned van was found on a beach at Budd Inlet.

Azriel's body was found Thursday. An autopsy positively identified the boy, determined he had drowned and his death was an accident.

A wallet containing Smiley's driver's license, some cash and credit cards was found in the van. Two mismatched shoes, a partially full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler and an orange ball have washed ashore since, and police said the items apparently belonged to the boy or his mother.

According to police, there was no indication that a crime took place inside Smiley's 2005 Dodge Caravan.

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=301809

Have read in different news reports that Shantina had asked for directions, yet it seems she didn't follow those directions, but went in the opposite way each time.   Also have read that at least once she was close enough to the freeway while asking for directions, that the directions may have been as simple as 'it's over there, just turn ------ to get there'. 

And yet.....

From the last stop she was at, she drives about 5 miles or so, again in the wrong way, down a road that dead-ends into someone's yard.   

Not being able (??) to spot the freeway even while close at the time, she manages somehow to drive down that road, find THIS little, narrow, gravel PATH, (not even an actual road), that cuts down from that property to the beach.  How did she manage that, without flipping the van or hitting every tree/shrub on the way down? 

In the first photo below.... On the right side, the *red arrow* marks where the narrow gravel pathway begins, which leads to the beach.  In the second photo, you can see the narrow gravel pathway going down, and the red dot marks where the van ended up, with the backend in the water. 

Just strange................. !! 



(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Shantina/arrow_narrowgravelroadtobeach.jpg)


(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Shantina/BeachRoadEnds_reddotvanfound.jpg)

I hope I am wrong, but I can't help but think that this is a 'Susan Smith' type of crime...can't put my finger on it, but things are not adding up.

If we are all scratching our heads and thinking this does not make a bit of sense, then there is something not right. What we know of her behavior that night it was odd to say the least. That path is not one you would just find when looking for the freeway.

BTW Hi Wykes! Nice to see ya!

No one is more directionally challanged then me, especially at night when I am in a place I don't know, but I think even I could find a freeway that was right there. 1/2 bottle of wine tells me she was drinking. If you don't drink for a while and are small 1/2 a bottle would make you more then just a little tipsy. I know I would be drunk. If she was on any kind of med, that would enhance the wine's effects too. But being drunk does that explain all of this?
Somehow her son ends up drowned in a pond off a small gravel path? 

Hi TG, good to see ya too!   ::HelloKitty::

This wasn't a 'pond', it was part of the puget sound, coming in from the ocean.  So it has swift currents, is extremely cold, etc.  A person could succumb fast in frigid water like that, especially if over-tired, etc.  I would think an inebriated person would succumb even faster. 

And yet.. it's not like they drove off a bridge and were out in the middle of deep water.   I cannot imagine how they both would have been in this water long enough to drown.  Seems they were close enough to the sand to just splash thru the water and hop onto land real quick.  Doesn't seem that it was awfully deep there.  Even if both of them got out of the van thru the rear hatch.     

It's hard to know what to think about this case.  Seems to me that if she really was in trouble, lost, disoriented, she had many opportunities to get help that night, yet didn't seem to try making anyone 'in person' understand her plight.  Even after getting the van stuck in the sand/water, seems she could have at least leaned on the horn til someone came to her rescue.  So.... since none of that was done, yeah.. it kind of makes me think of a 'Susan Smith' type thing too. 

sounds plausible.  I still think that it seemed as though she wasn't in a hurry to get out of Olympia.  It's like she was stalling Robb...and an interesting piece from her ex boyfriend gives some kind of insight...of ALL of the theories that he could come up with...he chooses to theorize that she took medication that made her pass out and that is the reason she ended up on the beach.  I am sure that he is aware of things that we haven't heard about.  Maybe b/c of the recent relapse with alcohol...she got a hold of an old contact...maybe that is why she was waiting around in Olympia...waiting for the person to get what she needed.  Now, this is only a theory...based on the observed behavior...not accusing.  Why didn't she call her step-father?  Wouldn't he be the best person to give her directions?  Most of the time it's not what a person does...it's what they DON'T do...that gives the real story.  Just a thought.

I have thought that too.  Was she intentionally getting herself on camera that night?  Attempting to look lost?

Thank you for the photos wyks  ::MonkeyCool::

One fellow said somebody was knocking on his door..But he did not answer it.. hmm
I am not sure that is creditable info.. But if it was ..One of them was NOT in the water.
Maybe he was and she could not find him.. ?? Then what did she do with herself ? commit suicide trying to find him ? did she knock on this fellows door for help first ??

ODD place to land and 1/2 a bottle will not make you that stupid.

I am just not sure what is going on here.

That vehicle should not have been in this location and she drove right by the front of some persons home !! like 20 feet away ..

At night in the country it is very dark..I know that.
I can't imagine telling the boy to jump in that frigid water..

So strange.

I am just getting up to speed on this thread. I have a question. How can you determine an accidental drowning vs someone holding a child underwater til they drown? My hinky meter is way up the chart.
God Bless this sweet child.

Hi Darla!

perhaps with a drowning that is not determined to be accidental,there would be pressure marks to hold the person underwater if they were resisting? not sure how they determined it accidental...
this is certainly a strange case to say the least....

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=301809

(http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/3/358/35812.jpg?filter=wtop/story_big_wide)

Just read this post and I wonder why they said this , Does she know something ?

http://truecrimes.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=375&t=2263
Candy... Tell what you know about Shantina and Azriel before its to late !!

Can you live with yourself the rest of your life if you don't tell what you know ?

Hasn't there been enough pain already ?

You have to tell the truth no matter what if for no other reason than for Azriel !!

Sure does sound like Candy knows something...that she is struggling with telling...hmmm...only time will tell.  But, after reading through the information...I DO believe people do know important info...and I have my own assumptions as to who they have the information about!

o/t banana ....love your new avvi!!

Has anyone from the "step family" of Shantina verified that the trip to Castle Rock was planned?  I know that I did read on a post that someone was excited for her to come up...but has it been verified that Shantina was actually going to her step-dad's?  I believe that a possibility of what took place the night that Shantina left could be (partly hypothetical...some based on known evidence, sightings and call to grandparents from the couples house...and what was not discounted by police...example...Robb told police she called twice around 4:15pm...likely he wouldn't say she called when she didn't b/c it can be proven):

Shantina called Robb around 4:15pm...either to say that she is heading out...(though he thinks to step-dad's)...or they are/have been fussing.  They argue...hang up...angry she calls back and says "I'm leaving"...throws phone...and heads out.  This may have been where she calls step-family and says she is heading up...Since, she leaves Silverdale around 5pm...arriving in Olympia around 6:45pm seems reasonable.  With no phone...she had time to think during the ride...and pulls off to call Robb...at this point she does not realize that he has headed to Castle Rock...she may have called to apologize...(I know that I have done that plenty of times after a lengthy time-out)...but, when he lets her know that he has headed to Castle Rock...she gets "nervous"...maybe she didn't tell Robb the entire truth...maybe Robb was aware of something more...so, this seems to be the point that she is showing signs of not wanting to leave Olympia...she isn't sure of what to do next.  So, she is wandering around...nervous.  Maybe she is making calls.  So, others can get their story straight.  Maybe she knows someone in Olympia.  So, she appears "lost" or "searching" for a location around 8pm.  It doesn't seem that Castle Rock is what she was looking for.  But, I am sure that the police asked the store clerk what she was asking for.  So, if she headed to Castle Rock to meet up with an old friend...maybe they were meeting her in Olympia... Maybe in a hidden location so that a searching fiance couldn't run up on her.  On the map did it appear that she was moving closer and closer to the beach?  Well, the end gets a little fuzzy...b/c if she made plans to wait on someone to meet in Olympia it seems that there would have been a confirmed location at a certain time.  Why did she leave Martin's Diner so quickly?  Well, do we know for certain that Robb did not search on his own for her?  Or maybe she THOUGHT she saw him (another man on a motorcycle).  Why did he stop in Toldeo-Vader?  I wonder if this "repair" has been verified?  I don't think that Robb would have said that he had arrived in Castle Rock if he hadn't...but, I wonder if him and the step-dad stayed together the entire time.  It is hard to say if I feel that Robb is directly responsible for whatever happened...a big part of me says no...but, he did seem to be overly giving of information...and has now isolated and is pulling previously posted information...why is that?  Could be something as simple as people (like me) are speculating too much...and it angers him.  It bothers me that a special post for "Candy" has been placed on a website begging her to tell police what she knows...It bothers me that a post was made about all of the drama...It bothers me how Robb refers to Azriel...he seems so disconnected from him...especially since the posts that he has made on myspace and such...seem to sound very loving and affectionate.  You never know...maybe there was a third person in the vehicle...possibly Robb...(has it been determined where he was for certain around that time)?  Maybe they were talking...trying to work things out...and got stuck...and ended up in a bad situation...maybe Robb was the one knocking on the door...I know that is stretching it...but, you never know.  Just some more ideas.  I am NOT accusing...only speculating.  The police/investigators will find the truth.

First off, who is Candy supposed to be and who is the person posting this message to her?
2nd, not quite sure what is suspicious about Robb? Everything he said seems reasonable, not connecting the same dots as you. Can you explain why he has your hinky meter on high alert? Am I missing something?

Thank You Cookie !!  :smt060

Candy is Shantina's Step-Mother

I would like to know why she is suspicious as well.  I have my reasons and one is because there is no way he can be in Vader-Toledo at the same time.  They are  miles apart from each other.

are people suspicious about Robb? he is the fiance right? in interviews that I saw him on, he seemed very sincere and I didn't have doubts about him like I normally do about some partners of missing women...what is making others doubt him?

I have made tons of other suggestions...prior to this one (in previous posts).  I am not suspicious of Robb...I am just trying to look at the case from various angles.  That's all.  That is why I made sure to put in a disclaimer...stating that I am not accusing him and explained some questions and merely asked if certain things had been verified. I feel the same way as cookie...my radar isn't going off with him...but, I was seeing posts in various places believing that he may be guilty in some way...so, I thought that I would try and look at it from a different angle...and so that is what I did.  Once, I looked at it from this angle...this possibility...I came up with only a few questions...questions that could be easily explained.  So, I wouldn't say that my "hinky" meter is on high alert...but, I have found through experience that people are dishonest at times (just in general) and so instead of believing someone totally...it is better to look at things from different views...and see what questions or discrepancies arise...or, when a person tells a story and we believe them (for whatever reason) we tend to overlook certain behaviors...so, when we look at what they are saying in a different way then sometimes those behaviors are noticed.  Anyhow, that's all.  Sorry to ruffle any feathers.  It looks like Banana has answered the question of Candy.  As far as thinking that he couldn't be in Toldeo-Vader and another area at the same time...I agree.  I was questioning if the "repair" stop had been verified.  I really don't believe that Robb was in Olympia.  Just didn't know WHAT had been verified.  My mind gets to going sometimes...I will try to stick to merely facts.  :)

http://www.kptv.com/news/22860661/detail.html
Missing Woman's Family 'Really Concerned'
Woman, 8-Year-Old Son Last Spotted In Olympia

POSTED: 6:43 pm PDT March 16,2010
UPDATED: 6:12 am PDT March 17,2010

CASTLE ROCK, Wash. -- The family of a woman whose minivan was found partially submerged in the Puget Sound said her disappearance is "not something that would be in her character."

Shantina Smiley, 29, was driving from Silverdale to her stepfather's house in Castle Rock over the weekend when she and her 8-year-old son, Azriel, got lost, officials said.

The minivan driven by Smiley was found on a private beach Sunday with its doors open. A wallet containing her driver's license, some cash and credit cards was found in the van, but neither she nor her son was anywhere in sight.

Earlier Saturday, surveillance video captured her at a convenience store in Olympia asking for directions. At 10 p.m., Smiley stopped by Dennis Williams' house to ask for directions again.

"She was obviously scared. We gave her directions and let her use our phone to call her grandfather," Williams said.

Smiley told her grandfather she was lost, but doing fine. She hasn't been heard from since.

Thurston County sheriff's deputies said they found no sign of violence or foul play around the minivan. The disappearance is considered suspicious, but investigators said they don't have any suspects or persons of interest.

People who are close to Smiley said is engaged to be married and would never put her son in danger.

"We're all just really worried, really concerned, because this is not something that would be in her character," said Jerry Smiley, the missing woman's ex-husband. "The circumstances I've seen and the timeline I've been reading really makes me wonder."

He said Smiley e-mailed him last week, saying she was going to be in Castle Rock and wanted to stop by.

Smiley's fiance, Robb Simmons, waited at the search command post Tuesday.

"I hope she's out here. I hope she finds someone who can help her out. On the darker side, though, you have to wonder, does somebody have her?" Simmons said.

I don't recall seeing this article posted...but, I may have missed it.  It states the name of the man, where Shantina stopped to use phone and ask for directions (Dennis Williams)

It includes a quote from Jerry Smiley (her ex-husband) stating that she had emailed him the week before and sad she wanted to stop by.

And, referring to my earlier post...where I mentioned that Robb seemed disconnected from Azriel when he spoke of him (at times)...this is what I was talking about...quotes like the above.  He is hoping that she is out there, and hoping that someone can help her out...and wondering if someone may have her...this is before Azriel was found...and he doesn't even mention him.  No, that does NOT mean he is guilty...just giving you an idea of where I came up with that thought.

That is critical thinking..  I think you are correct in your thoughts to question everything.
 ::MonkeyCool::

thanks Edward...I was feeling bad. 

I don't recall reading that the keys to the van that Shantina was driving...was found on the dashboard.  This could be important information...
found at→ http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/17/v-print/1174911/no-new-clues-in-missing-pair.html

I agree...we all should question everything...I like hearing everyone's ideas and opinions on all of these cases..others see things that I don't always see, and still don't see after they put forth their ideas/thoughts...But that is what we have to do, mull things over with each other...

I agree...it really does help.  If I don't put my thoughts down quickly though...I tend to lose them (or parts).  My mind is constantly going...always thinking.  It helps to see all of the ideas. 

FTR I was not doing anything more then trying to clarify your thinking. My feathers were not ruffled at all, just was not connecting the dots. I don't know what is going on with this case. For some reason that night she couldn't find her way out of that town and was so confused. I wish a clue would be found, as of now it is a mystery

Okay...Tracygirl...sorry...yes, it is such a mystery.  I am hoping too that something will be found...there has to be something.

here is a link to the tire tracks...I don't know yet how to post a picture. 

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=5

(http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=5)

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=2

sorry...about that...I am trying to figure out how to post the picture.  Here is the link to the van on the beach...I haven't seen this picture posted yet.

actually the one that I was talking about was this one→
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=1

(http://media.king5.com/images/0315shantina_search1.jpg)

Azriel Carver Remembered at Memorial as 'a Joy and a Blessing'

   
Mourners gather at Brinnon Community Church for a memorial service for Azriel Carver on Wednesday. (MEEGAN M. REID | KITSAP SUN)

BRINNON —

Azriel James Carver’s life was cut short, but Brinnon Community Church Pastor Bill Reid told those who came to remember him Wednesday that “a brief life is not an incomplete one.”

Reid said that Azriel “accomplished his mission” by touching lives from Buffalo, where his father Jay Carver lives, to Brinnon, where he often came to stay with his great-grandparents Silas and Dolly Smith.

“This little boy was a joy and a blessing, and we will miss him,” Reid said at Azriel’s memorial service Wednesday. “We’re here today to remember him.”

The 8-year-old and his mother, 29-year-old Shantina Smiley, disappeared in the Olympia area March 13. Their van was found partially submerged in remote Thurston County the next day, and Azriel’s body washed ashore March 18 on Fox Island, near Gig Harbor.

Authorities, who determined he drowned accidentally, still have no idea where his mother is.

“He was a happy-go-lucky boy with a wonderfully bright grin that made everyone who saw him smile in response to the sparkle in his eyes,” reads his obituary, which was printed in a leaflet and distributed at the service.

“He particularly enjoyed playing video and computer games and loved Gramma’s little dog Jasmine and his own little cat, CoCo,” the obituary said.

Reid relayed a tale from a few Sundays ago when Azriel was playing cards with another boy. Horseplay ensued, and the boys argued over the cards. Azriel, Reid said, ultimately gave the boy the cards and patted him on the back.

Azriel’s father, Jay Carver, also spoke at the memorial. He said that since he had been far removed from the boy while living in Buffalo, he was grateful for the local people who “took such good care of him.”

Azriel came to call Robb Simmons “dad” not long after he and Smiley moved into Simmons’ Island Lake home. Simmons and Smiley were engaged.

Simmons recalled a day with the 8-year-old when they went to the sportsman’s show in Seattle, where Azriel caught his two-fish limit in a stocked indoor pond.

Smiley prepared the fish when they got home, Simmons said, but Azriel decided against eating them.

“No, that’s for CoCo,” Azriel said, referring to his cat.

Dolly Smith remembered a recent day when Azriel, with “his eyes that just sparkled,” came to her and asked: “Grandma, can we have some alone time?”

She remembered that not long after he joined Boy Scouts a year and a half ago, he held a car door open for her. “This is what us Scout boys do, they open doors for old grandmas,” she recalled him as saying.

Teachers and staff from the North Kitsap School District also came to Brinnon for the service.

“Azriel’s the kind of kid that makes us love Mondays,” one unidentified teacher said. “That little smile of his got right into our hearts.”

“Azriel was my brother,” said Nicole Simmons, Robb Simmons’ daughter. She remembered a recent day when she was baking in the oven. Azriel followed the scent and asked if he could have some of what she was making.

“Don’t say no, just say yes,” she recalled him saying.

“There’s gonna be no one else like him,” she said.

Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/24/azriel-carver-remembered-as-a-joy-and-a-blessing/#ixzz0jXPAogXW

(http://media.king5.com/images/0316shantina_van_firstpic.jpg)

That looks so much better Klaas.  Thanks.  I have went to the help area...to see how to post...but, for some reason I am still not getting a picture.  I kind of made a mess in here tonight  ::MonkeyNoNo::

I think that I see what you are saying here...tell me if I am wrong.  Are you stating that he cannot be in Toldeo-Vader at the same time...or Toldeo-Vader and Olympia at the same time...because if you mean Toldeo-Vader, then I believe that the names of the two close areas are placed together sometimes...meaning a certain area.  I think that I saw that on a map.  I may be wrong about what you are stating...my mind is a bit foggy tonight.

No, I meant he could not be in Toledo and Vader at the same time.  If he meant he stopped at the truck/rest stop in between those that would make sense but that is not what he stated in the following link.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7384.msg1098956#msg1098956

I stopped in Toldeo-Vader to make quick repair, when she called me at 6:45 from a phone. She asked me if I could grab her phone, because she had left. I let her know where I was at.

You have to look at how it is said not what we think he meant...does that make sense ?

I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that Candy may have known that mom was drinking again?

Okay, I do see what you mean.  I have more questions about this but this computer at the school is messing up.  I will ask when I get home.

Not sure if this is what he means but there is a road off the freeway that is called Toledo-Vader road.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/1400-46th-ave-olympia,-wa_rb/

here is a picture of 46th Ave...last place they were seen alive...Appears to be very close to where the van was found.  I wonder if Shantina met them at the store?  It seems like I read that somewhere.  Hmmm...this is the home of Dennis Williams(wife too, I believe) and his son Taylor Williams apparently lives there as well. 

A little closer

Who is to say she drove the van to that beach? It doesn't make any sense she would end up there, maybe she didn't?

This was a good point edward, do we know if this is still possible?

never mind, I read a post after that which pretty much explained it was not possible. Sorry about that.

That was good thinking Edward. I think what happened is not right in front of everyone and thinking outside of the box may lead to what happened.

Can someone please confirm, the van was found in Budd inlet and the boys body was found on Fox Island?

I have been thinking for awhile now that she ran into a bad guy.
I do not see the proof of it yet. But I can smell something is not right with this picture.

The boys drowned.. Mom missing.

This is not a suicide or an accident. mo.

There are several descriptions of the location where the van was found, but there is one that does say "Budd Inlet".
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAENDoVEXg9_6-EEEzh7GRnemN9wD9EFC7JG0
<snip>
OLYMPIA, Wash. — A woman heading to her stepfather's house was "beyond lost" when she and her 8-year-old son took one wrong turn after another through the backroads of Thurston County and onto a private Puget Sound beach, authorities said Monday.<snip>



http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d14-Olympia--Desperate-search-for-mother-and-8year-old-son-fiance-believes-could-be-sinister10:30 a.m. - <snip> On Sunday morning her van was spotted in the waters of Dana Passage, which is just north of Olympia. Both doors were open and her wallet was inside but her purse was gone.<snip>


http://www.king5.com/news/Father-of-missing-boy-picks-up-search--88194812.html
<snip>
The mother and son disappeared over the weekend while on their way to Castle Rock. The only clue was their van was found partially submerged in Budd Inlet in Olympia.<snip>

Where Azriel's body was found:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22881089/detail.html
<snip
PIERCE COUNTY, Wash. -- The body of a child has washed up on the shores of Fox Island in Pierce County, sheriff's deputies said.<snip>

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/88469377.html
<snip>
FOX ISLAND, Wash. - A boy's body has washed up in South Puget Sound, and a Thurston County official said it's possible that a missing 8-year-old boy could have washed ashore there.

The body was found Thursday afternoon on the shore of Fox Island, near the 1040 block of Paiute Road, said Nanette Tatom, spokesperson for the Gig Harbor Fire Department.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County sheriff's office said tidal currents could have carried a body from the Budd Inlet area, where 8-year-old Azriel Carver went missing late Saturday, to Fox Island over a period of days.<snip>

"Yes, absolutely," he said, when asked about the possibility.

Both doors were open and her wallet was inside but her purse was gone

That water is very cold.. She opened the back door.
She had to be able to walk around to the rear of the vehicle to do so.
It was not that deep.

One neighbor reported that somebody was knocking on his door in the middle of the night but he did not anwer the door.

One of them was out walking around.

Where is the purse ?

 This boy was thrown in the water to drown, and not by mom.
jmho

Before the Calvary arrived I wonder what the foot prints in the sand looked like.

I know the spokes person said his body could have been carried from where the van was found to the point he was found, but when looking at a map, doesn't that seem like a whole lot of turns?

Her wallet was found in the van but not her purse, that to me is another strange point. Did they ever find the overnight bags? If she, where did they find them? I haven't found anything right off about them, just that they were not found.
why did she leave behind her ID? Was that on purpose or intentional?

I looked at the map of where she stopped at the diner to 46th street near where she used the phone and then to the Zeigle road where the van was found. It just seems unlikely a person would get that lost, right?

Her son said at the diner she hit her head, was he told to say this? Did she coach him to say that because she was drinking? We know she had bought a 1/2 a bottle of wine, we do not know if she drank before that or if she was the one who drank that wine. That 1/2 bottle was found with the van, so did she go there to drink that wine? Was she stopped somewhere else and drank the wine and maybe someone jumped in the van?

I think what I am getting at is, I do not think she was alone that night. Guess I could have just said that, lol.

A neighbor reported someone knocked in the middle of the night? Where is the overnight bag and the purse?

yes, that is what I was thinking.  That was probably what he meant.  I wonder if he intentionally went that route because he knew that it would be a faster route and just happened to come across the repair shop?  Or what?

The quote from the cook at the restaurant worker indicates they they ordered and payed for food and then walked out to the van ..

The boy told the waitress his mom hit her head.

I did an experiment this weekend.. I drank 1/2 bottle of wine..
Then I went out and mowed a couple of acres of grass..

Never got lost..nope not even a little bit confused.

So I went back in and drank the rest of the bottle, never fell down and hit me head.

I do not even drink and I find this talk of 1/2 bottle of wine amazing.

There is something much bigger here and authorities just want to take the easy answer in my opinion.

I think she did in fact hit her head and was suffering from a concussion.. But I am not a doctor.. Just a drunk on a tractor.
Can ya get a ticket for that ?

(http://cdn.wn.com/ph/img/1b/95/4edffc6c99e7eaed6a9fa43ce289-grande.jpg)

Is this the son of the couple that Shantina had stopped at to use the phone and get directions?  I wonder which house is theirs?  It would be interesting to know which house she decided to stop at...out of other choices there.  Meaning, I wonder if she had met them earlier...I am trying to find where I read that..."ten minutes later Shantina pulled up..." at this house.  Ten minutes later from what?  Has anyone else read an article that they recall this phrase in?  I am hoping that the pic posted.  If not...the link should show up.

Surveillance video showed their van pulling into the parking lot of the Gulf Harbor Mercantile store shortly before 10 p.m. Smiley may have wanted to use the pay phone there, but it is out of order. The video does not show her or her son getting out of the vehicle. The van pulled out of the parking lot and headed the direction it came from.

About 10 minutes later, Dennis Williams said the two knocked on the front door of his home about a mile from the store.

"She seemed upset because she was lost," said Williams.

Williams said Smiley used the phone to tell a relative they were lost and going to be late. He said the mother and son did not seem to be in trouble. If anything, said Williams, the boy seemed hungry.

"We gave him a piece of pizza," said Williams.

She was not injured but spoke of an accident, which investigators believe may have been a reference to falling down at the diner.

"I wish there was something more I could've done. I wish I knew more, or asked the right questions to be able to say this is a person who's in trouble," said Williams.

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html
I found it...the phrase that I was thinking of came from here.  It was ten minutes after peering through the window of a closed store that she ended up knocking on their door.

(http://media.kitsapsun.com/media/img/photos/2010/03/15/Mom_Son_Missing_WAOLY103_t607.jpg)

OLYMPIA — Robb Simmons of Silverdale stood vigil Monday on a beach where the van his fiancee was driving was pulled from Puget Sound a day earlier.

But divers came up empty in their search of the waters north of Olympia, where a van driven by Shantina “Kat” Smiley, 29, was found partially submerged on Sunday. And circling Coast Guard choppers found no evidence of Smiley or her 8-year-old son, Azriel James Carver, both of whom have been missing since Saturday night.

“I just want them home,” said Simmons, who has been engaged to Smiley for two of the 2½ years he’s known her.

While divers and helicopters searched Dana Passage, officers with dogs scoured the area for signs of the Silverdale woman who disappeared with her son near Olympia on Saturday while en route to Castle Rock.

By Monday night, the case was as baffling to investigators as it was to the public.

“Somebody knows something,” said Detective Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office. “It’s our job to find that someone and get that information.”

Surveillance footage, witness accounts and interviews with Simmons have helped detectives piece together a few stops Smiley and her son made Saturday.

At one point, the pair was at the Martin Way Diner in Olympia, where Smiley ordered a corn dog but left before taking the food, Mealy said. An employee mentioned she might have had minor fall in the parking lot.

Later, they ended up at a home on 46th Avenue in Olympia. They stopped at the home to ask directions — apparently drawn by a Christian symbol Smiley had seen outside, Mealy said.

An older couple at the home told investigators that she asked for directions back to the highway. Smiley called her grandparents and the couple gave her son some pizza. Smiley rubbed her knee, they noticed.

“They said she just appeared nervous,” Mealy said, adding that the couple believed the anxiety was because she was lost, nothing more.

Mealy said Simmons has been “very cooperative,” riding his motorcycle between Kitsap and Thurston counties to get materials to help with the investigation.

The pair’s disappearance has been called suspicious, but there are no suspects because it hasn’t been established that a crime was committed, Mealy said.

Meanwhile, Simmons on Monday told the Kitsap Sun that Smiley is “a wonderful woman and a great mother.”

The two met online. After striking up a relationship with Simmons, Smiley moved to Kitsap County to be with him.

Simmons detailed the chronology of events Saturday, saying that he had planned to meet Smiley in Castle Rock, where she was en route to visit her stepfather. He was headed down separately after he finished Cub Scout training. The two were den leaders.

Simmons heard from Smiley at about 6:45 p.m. She said she’d pulled off the road near Olympia because Azriel was hungry. She had left her cell phone at home.
A member of the Thurston County Sheriff's Department dive team search for Shantina Smiley of Silverdale on Monday in Olympia. Shantina Smiley and her 8-year-old son, Azriel J. Carver, were reported missing Sunday. (Steve Bloom | The Olympian)

Smiley gave Simmons the Castle Rock address and “told me she would be there shortly,” he wrote on his Web site.

Simmons said his cell phone was nearly out of battery. He got to Castle Rock at about 7:40 p.m. At about 9 p.m., he started to get worried and he checked in with the Washington State Patrol.

Simmons and Smiley’s stepfather began to drive around the area. He said he’d gotten in touch with Smiley’s grandparents, who said Smiley had called them.

The grandparents reported that they’d received a call from Smiley at about 10:10 p.m. from a house in Olympia. She told them she was there to use a phone and ask for directions. She let them know she was OK, Simmons said.

That was the last anyone heard from her.

Jim Pribbenow found the vehicle on private beachfront property. He told The Olympian newspaper that the back hatch and side door were open, the front end was stuck in the mud and “you could see where the wheels had spun in trying to back out.”

The van didn’t have any broken windows but did have some damage, Simmons said.

Smiley had just graduated from Olympic College in medical billing and coding, Simmons said. She graduated from Castle Rock High School in 1998.

Azriel is a second-grader at Vinland Elementary in the North Kitsap School District, according to Charley McCabe, Vinland’s principal. Staff was notified Monday morning of his disappearance, and McCabe sent out an e-mail Monday morning alerting parents.

“We are all concerned for their safety and remain hopeful that they will be found soon,” McCabe wrote.

Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/15/pray-their-safe-return-says-fiance-missing-woman/?partner=RSS#ixzz0jekqTpj1


Comments » 72 
Leott writes:

Simmons was at Cub Scout LEADERSHIP training. There were no Cub Scouts at this training session.

    * March 15, 2010
    * 11:43 a.m.
   
kg (Inactive) writes:

When the truth comes out, the Kitsap Sun staff will apologize to me for removing my post.

   
BremertonResident writes:

    in response to bogartina:

    On Komo even that report was that the roads in west Olympia are not well marked according to the Thurston County Sheriff's office even in the daylight. Just saying................

Maybe the surface streets/back roads aren't. But the highways (particularly 101) and Martin Way certainly are.

But there's some troublesome gaps - why the two hour gap between the convenience store and the the diner? (Not to mention, why leave a well marked highway for a convenience store in the back of beyond?) Why an hour between the diner and stopping to ask directions at a location just ten minutes drive away?

It's all very odd.

issueathand writes:

The diorientation and lack of stability she almost looks like she may have been drugged. Are there any other tire marks? Footprints to and from the van? Where did her scent end? Did somebody follow her? Come on, there is soooo much not being told.

   
felon_fighter writes:

If Smiley called her fiance at about 6:45pm as he has reported, and he showed up in Castle Rock at 7:40pm, is that possible?
AND why does Simmons be sure and mention his cell phone was almost out of battery? What sense does that make in this whole scenario? Smiley left her cell phone at home and Simmons phone is out of battery? I don't get it.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck!

rgdimages#217099  writes:
This is a world class disappearance mystery.

Having visited the scene where the car was recovered, it becomes even more perplexing.

First, it's a fair distance from Olympia. From 46th, where she stopped and got directions back to the freeway, she would have been told to turn left (South) to get headed back to I-5. Instead, she apparently turned right (North), drove about 4 miles, and went down a paved road that was clearly marked: "Dead End". A number of houses are on that road. That road ends at a well kept, private residence driveway. Those people reportedly were home (apparently asleep). She could have stopped there, but she didn't. Off to the right of that driveway, and not at all distinctly visible, is a small, relatively steep, narrow wood debris covered access road to the beach, steep dropoff to the right to a bay of water. She went down that road some 500-600 feet in the darkness, got to the beach area, drove a short distance along a rock/sand spit and down onto the beach, and the car was found in the water, apparently with indications there had been an attempt to get it back to terra firma.

It was low tide. To the North there is a tidal inlet. It's not crossable unless you are a strong swimmer. So she either had to go back up the dirt road she came in on, or walk South along the beach towards the lights of Boston Harbor, which is a 1-2 mile hike.

Maybe she knew of this little steep dirt access road ... perhaps she had used it as a photo shoot location. It's almost unimaginable to take an 8 year old down a narrow, steep, very hard to find beach access road late at night not knowing where she was headed.

The law enforcement flyer says her overnight bag has been located, but it didn't indicate if that was left in the car or found elsewhere.

I tend to suspect whoever drove the car down the pretty well hidden, unmarked beach access road had prior knowledge of that road.

The question might be: was she the driver? Or might there have been someone else involved at that point in time?


lizzyred10#211238 writes:

Why did she ring her Grandfather at 10:10 rather than her fiance' or step dad? Wasn't it her step dad and fiance' that she was going to? Maybe she does not want to be found right now. It seems that she would contact the people she was trying to get to if she were lost, not her Grandparents?
Are the Grandparents even sure it was her (voice) that rang them? I hope they are safe and there is not something going on....seems like the Grandparents are being used as an alibi perhaps.

lizzyred10#211238  writes:

    in response to Leott:

    Her fiance and step dad were out driving around looking for her. Maybe her grandparents were the only people she could get in contact with.

    How can the grandparents be an alibi when they just stated facts?

Just a thought. If I was that worried about someone being missing, I would either take a phone WITH me while I was out looking, or stay at the house or have someone at the house in case she made it. Grandparents just came into this at 10:10...they somehow managed to get a hold of Stepdad and fiance'...figure she could have too. I am just reading this interesting story and wanted to make one comment, not add another scenario and have my view called on. Sounds like you are more up on it than I am. I probably missed something.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This article had some information that I had not read in other articles.  Some of the comments were interesting too.

   

a half bottle of an average wine bottle is typically 2 glasses? a full bottle usually serves 4 glasses with a little bit left over as a topper...I don't see how 2 glasses  of wine would make her drunk...or disoriented...jmo...

Hi Monkeys. Thanks for all of your posts and thoughts on this case.  One thought... maybe this wasn't the first bottle of wine she had that day???

Well, Edward - yes you can!   ::MonkeyDevil::

But, seriously, if she was an alcoholic she would not have stopped at a half a bottle. And she would not have gotten fall down drunk on even a whole bottle. I do not care how long she was sober - I know this from watching alot of drunks go back out. You start where you left off. If I went back to drinking I could probably drink a fifth or so and still walk around.

My personal thought is there was someone else involved. Not sure if she left the boy there and ran off with someone or some foul plan came into it. I am not convinced that she meant for him to drown.

That's an interesting thought mgo.  Maybe this wasn't the first bottle of wine she had that day.  But also, it was said half the contents of the bottle were gone.  Here is a pic of the bottle that was found:


http://www.kirotv.com/news/22878227/detail.html
(http://www.kirotv.com/2010/0318/22879043_640X472.jpg)
<snip>
Police told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News on Wednesday that a half-empty bottle of wine washed up on the beach near where the van was found. The bottle looked like the one surveillance video showed Smiley buying at a mini-mart the night she and her son disappeared. See full story. It was capped, unbroken and half empty. <snip>

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8520+Island+View+Dr+NE+Olympia,+WA+98506&vps=1&jsv=218a&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.86791,107.138672&num=10&abstate=A:actbar-saveto (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8520+Island+View+Dr+NE+Olympia,+WA+98506&vps=1&jsv=218a&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.86791,107.138672&num=10&abstate=A:actbar-saveto)

Here is the link to map of area where there were reports of knocking at 1am.

Man returns from WA with son's ashes


BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) - A Lancaster father returned home from a heartbreaking journey. Jay Carver talked with News 4, sharing memories of his little boy.

Search and rescue teams didn't know what to think of Jay Carver when he first arrived out west to help look for his biological son. What they eventually learned was that he was a loving father, with a huge heart. Thursday morning, the Lancaster dad returned to WNY, sad and heartbroken.

The airport is always a special place for joyful reunions and safe returns. But for Jay Carver, the somber walk through Buffalo Niagara International was the latest step in a journey that began a week ago when he flew across the country to help search for his missing son, Azriel, and former girlfriend, Shantina Smiley.

Sadly, Azriel's body was found last Thursday, floating in Washington State's Puget Sound. He drowned. His ashes are now with his dad, who brought them home in his backpack. It's hard to imagine his grief.

Jay said, "There are a lot of kids out there that don't have a father in their life and I was that father not in his life."

Jay was forced to have a cross-country relationship with Azriel who moved away from WNY with his mom years ago. The pair vanished earlier this month, spotted on surveillance the night they disappeared. Her van was eventually found on a beach. She is still missing. For now, Jay's focus is only on his son.

"He touched a lot of lives and really was there for a lot of people and being a little guy, really didn't live long. He did a lot with what he had and faced up to a lot of adversity and always had a smile on his face," said Jay.

Tears flow easily when Jay thinks of ways he can honor his son by finding hope in loss.

Jay said, "If I can be there for somebody, I know it's a day light and dollar short in Azriel's case, but if I can be there for some kid that might be having problems maybe there won't be a father who's feeling what I'm feeling."

The family will hold a private memorial service for Azriel this weekend. A benefit will be held next month. A portion of the proceeds will be donated to several charities that assist children.

Rebecca Gerald · 4 days ago
Mr. Carver, Your beautiful son Azriel Carver touched my live in a special way that not many have. I met Azriel several years ago when he attended the Head Start Progam in Lonview, Washington. He was sweet, kind and very loving to all he met. However Azriel was not with out his share of troubles. Troubles that I could not save him from all though I tried. I filled out a CPS report on him and even though the situation was investigated Azriel was returned to his mother. I cried all the was home that day and for several days after. I loved your son deeply. When he would see me he referred to me as Grandma. I see his sweet gentle face in my mind and will always remember him as a child filled with love. My heart and prayers are with today and always. I loved you Azriel..

Taken from http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/Man-returns-from-WA-with-sons-ashes

(http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/2010/mar/19/93995/)

The death of a Silverdale boy whose body washed ashore in Pierce County came into clearer focus on Friday, and two differing pictures of his mother, who remains missing, continued to emerge.

While it appears 8-year-old Azriel Carver’s death was accidental, questions remain about how it happened. And investigators still haven’t found any signs of his mother, 29-year-old Shantina “Kat” Smiley. The search by air and sea for the mother on Friday focused on the water and shorelines of Puget Sound.

On Friday afternoon the Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office ruled Azriel’s death an accidental drowning. The Thurston County Sheriff’s Office, which sent a detective to the autopsy, said there were no signs of assault. The discovery of Azriel’s body high on a shoreline at the south end of Fox Island near Gig Harbor the day before brought sorrow to a case that had been filled with mystery and anxiety.


At Vinland Elementary School, where Azriel was a second-grade student, the reader board simply read “Azriel,” followed by a heart.

According to Washington State Child Protective Services records, Azriel’s short life may have been filled with strife, though the accounts of courts and state agencies fly in the face of the devoted, dedicated and determined life Smiley appeared to be living in recent years.

Between June 2005 and April 2009, Smiley was the subject of 10 complaints to the child-protection agency, CPS spokeswoman Sherry Hill said.

In June 2005, CPS investigated after Azriel suffered facial bruises and a broken arm. At the time, Smiley’s ex-boyfriend — who was not related to the boy — was suspected. The charges were later dropped.

The same year, Smiley filed for a protection order against the man, which the Kitsap Sun reported Wednesday.

In March 2007, Smiley was accused of abusing the child, but CPS called the allegation “unfounded.”

Then in August 2007, CPS declared Smiley “negligent” for leaving Azriel unsupervised “after she had passed out from alcohol use,” Hill said.

After the 2005 and August 2007 complaints, Smiley voluntarily gave up custody to her family, she said. Each time, Smiley entered treatment and passed examinations before regaining custody, Hill said.

The most recent report was filed as “information,” when a school employee in April 2009 made a legally-required report after Azriel began acting out in school, and Smiley revealed a history of abuse.

CPS is now doing a “fatality review” to see if anything should have been done differently, Hill said.

While the case still has a steady stream of unanswered questions, the subject of alcohol and alcoholism has recurred. Earlier in the week, Smiley’s fiance, Robb Simmons, said she was a recovering alcoholic who had relapsed recently, but denied that it would have had anything to do with the pair’s disappearance.

In 2005, Smiley received a deferred prosecution in a drunken-driving and hit-and-run case out of Castle Rock. In April of that year, she allegedly swiped a parked truck and fled on foot, according to documents obtained by the Kitsap Sun. The police report alleges Smiley was too intoxicated to perform field-sobriety tests safely and claims a breath test revealed a blood-alcohol level of 0.243, three times the legal limit.

Deferred prosecutions are agreements to avoid jail time and drop charges in exchange for a period of sobriety and lawfulness. That probationary period was set to end in April of this year.

Her history is in contrast to the story of a woman who, by her own accounts on social networks and those of friends and family, was getting her life together, in a loving relationship and close with her son. She had graduated from Olympic College, getting a degree in medical billing, and was involved in her son’s Cub Scout program as a den leader.

Dozens of supportive messages, prayers and memories have filled a Facebook page dedicated to Smiley and Azriel called “Prayers for Shantina Smiley and her son — Rest In Peace — Azriel Carver.”

One woman who attended the medical coding and billing program with Smiley said she and other students who knew her are dismayed at the treatment Smiley and her family have received in some media, and she wanted to present her memories of the attractive, intelligent woman she knew.

“She was one of the nicest people,” the woman, who declined to disclose her name, said. “From what I could see, she had her life in order.” She remembered Smiley as a woman who talked constantly about her son. “This is like the last thing in the world that could have happened,” she said.

Even if Smiley did relapse, the woman said, “We’re all just people.”

But authorities, too, have centered on alcohol as a factor in the pair’s disappearance. Smiley and Azriel apparently took a directionless drive north of Olympia on Saturday night when they were supposed to be headed from their Silverdale home to Castle Rock to see her family. Surveillance footage shows Smiley buying a large bottle of wine, and authorities found what they believe is that bottle, half empty and corked, after it washed ashore along with one of her shoes, a ball and an inhaler belonging to Azriel.

Investigators still don’t know what happened to Smiley, but Thurston County Sheriff’s Detective Sgt. Cheryl Stines said recent developments have led police to focus on water and shorelines searches.

“I think that’s a very strong possibility,” she said.

On Sunday morning, a nearby resident found their minivan, doors open and keys on the dash, partially submerged and stuck in the mud near Dana Passage. At high tide, it appeared the water covered the van, Stines said.

But whatever evidence there is seems to be is circumstantial at this point. As far as what happened to Shantina Smiley, there are still only questions.

“We’ll probably have those for a while,” Stines said. “You may never know.”

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:8862fVSt1DAJ:www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/19/missing-boys-death-ruled-accidental/+shantina+smiley+fled+on+foot&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a   

Missing Silverdale Woman Had a DUI and Protection Order in Her Past
(http://media.kitsapsun.com/media/img/photos/2010/03/17/20100317-202802-pic-624057847_t607.jpg)

OLYMPIA — UPDATE, 10:54 a.m.: Authorities say a shoe that washed up on a Puget Sound beach over the weekend probably belonged to the Silverdale woman who appears to have abandoned a van on the beach and disappeared with her 8-year-old son.

Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County Sheriff’s office says other items that washed up on the beach also appear to be connected with 29-year-old Shantina “Kat” Smiley of Silverdale and her son Azriel Carver.

Mealy says the positive identification of the items does not change the direction of their investigation. Thurston County has a boat in the water scouring the shoreline for clues. Investigators also are examining Smiley’s bank records and court and public records and talking to people.

Shantina “Kat” Smiley, 29, had a brush with the law in 2005, when she was charged with hit-and-run and DUI in Cowlitz County.

Around the same time, she took out a protection order against a Cowlitz County man with whom she had a “very abusive relationship,” law enforcement said.

But despite the incidents in her past, her life in Kitsap County — where she moved to be with a man she met on MySpace —had much positive momentum, family members and acquaintances said. She had established a career and a family of which she was proud.

“Everything seemed normal,” said Chelsie Woodard, a stepsister to Smiley who lives in Castle Rock.

Items — including two mismatched leather shoes, a half-full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler and an orange ball — washed ashore on the same beach near Olympia where the van she was driving was found partially submerged over the weekend. Meantime, law enforcement found video surveillance footage that showed her at an Olympia convenience store buying wine, a development made more significant by her fiance’s statement on Tuesday that she is a recovering alcoholic who relapsed last week.

A Kitsap Sun search of court records revealed that Smiley was charged with DUI and hit and run in April 2005. She received a deferred prosecution, according to the Cowlitz County Clerk’s Office, meaning that her charges would be dropped if she stayed out of trouble. It appears the deferred prosecution was to last five years, and she’d had no problems since. It’s set to end April 13, 2010.

Also in 2005, she took out a protection order against a Cowlitz County man, starting in July. But it was lifted in August 2006, according to the clerk’s office.

Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy said investigators haven’t interviewed the man, but he is on their “to do” list, he said. Currently, there’s nothing indicating his involvement in her disappearance, he added.

Smiley grew up in Castle Rock, a dwindling Cowlitz County town off Interstate 5. After graduating from the high school there in 1998, she married Robert Jerome Smiley. They were “high school sweethearts,” Woodard said.

But their marriage ended in 2001, Cowlitz records indicate. He is not the man Smiley took out a protection order against.

While things might have taken a turn for the worse for Smiley in 2005, by the time she arrived in Kitsap County two years ago, things began to look up.

Smiley earned her certificate in medical billing and coding at Olympic College in 2009. She graduated on the dean’s list and reportedly got a job at the Kitsap Medical Group.

Barbara Parker, a professor at Olympic College, called Smiley “enthusiastic” and “motivated.” She was in the program during its first year of existence at the college.

“She seemed to love coming to class,” Parker said. “She was probably one of my most excited students.”

Parker met Smiley’s family last year when they came to campus for an Easter egg hunt.

“They just seemed like a really nice family,” she said.

Smiley was a den leader for her son’s Cub Scout pack in Silverdale, an assignment that comes with plenty of responsibility, said Pat Craven, spokesman for the Chief Seattle Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

“If you’re taking the time to volunteer to be a den leader, that’s not a small commitment,” he said, referring to the hours of planning and preparation for weekly meetings and den outings.

“We’re all concerned about them,” he said.

The search was called off early Wednesday, but resumed that afternoon after items washed ashore.

Mealy said a boat searched the area with a bloodhound on board to try to pick up the scent of Smiley and her son. Dogs searched the roads and the area surrounding the beach.

He said one of the shoes could be a child’s shoe. The bottle could be the one Smiley is shown on video purchasing during her travels on Saturday night.

Carver’s father, Jay Carver, who had been estranged with his son until recently, traveled from New York state late Tuesday to search for Azriel.

As media attention mounts, journalists are hardly the only ones putting their detective hats on.

“To go down a dark steep, unmarked road that is really hard to find, with her 8-year-old son, is really unbelievable,” said Robert Dashiell, a Bainbridge man who spent Tuesday retracing Smiley’s journey Saturday night.

Details have trickled out slowly, one on top of another, and none making much sense. Unless you want them to.

Theories are plentiful on the Internet. On comment threads and online forums dedicated to amateur sleuths, armchair detectives are piecing together the events as they see them — suspecting hoaxes, nearby sex offenders, her fiance, ex-boyfriends, alcoholism, accidents and intentional disappearance.

“I’m torn in three or four directions here and am standing at the intersection not knowing which way to go,” someone wrote on an Internet forum filled with dozens of pages of back-and-forth guesswork.

Said Smiley’s stepsister: “It makes absolutely no sense.”

But Woodard said she knows one thing: Smiley would protect her son at all costs.

“I always felt like if she’d do anything, she wouldn’t do anything to him,” she said.
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/17/missing-silverdale-woman-had-a-dui-and-order-in/

Maybe Mom's concussion did render her unable to drive and Azriel tried to drive to safety and ended up in the water?  But where is Mom?  Maybe she really isn't herself and wandered off or came to and saw her son dead and flipped out and wandered off?  I'd really like to know.  Could be a relative of the home she stopped at for help followed her and he did something with her body and the boy took off driving the wrong way.  It's late and I'm rambling so off to bed I go.  Nite all!

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/apr/01/memorial-service-planned-for-shantina-smiley/

Memorial Service Planned for Shantina Smiley
Thursday, April 1, 2010

The fiance of a missing Silverdale mother is holding out hope she’s still alive, and authorities still don’t have any leads on where she might be.

But friends and family will hold a memorial service to honor the life of 29-year-old Shantina Smiley on April 17 in Brinnon.

“At this point I still have all the hope in the world that she will turn up alive, I cannot do anything else,” Smiley’s fiance Robb Simmons, wrote in an e-mail to the Kitsap Sun.

But he said it was also appropriate to hold a service.

“The 17th will have been over 30 days, and if she has passed on, then that just seems that it would be the right thing to do,” Simmons wrote.

Smiley went missing March 13 with her 8-year-old son Azriel Carver during what was supposed to be a trip to a family gathering in Castle Rock, in southwest Washington. Their gold minivan was found the next morning partially submerged in a muddy bank north of Olympia. Neither were inside. Carver’s body was found on a Fox Island beach, near Gig Harbor, on March 18.

Friends and family plan to hold a memorial service for Smiley at 1 p.m. April 17 at the Brinnon Community Church, the same church where a service was held for Azriel in March.

The disappearance of Smiley and Carver had captured national media attention. Many questions remain, including why she took a haphazard route north of Olympia before parking on a remote beach. There have been revelations of her struggles with alcohol, and surveillance footage showed her buying an oversized bottle of wine — which later washed ashore corked and half-empty — the night she disappeared. She was previously investigated by Child Protective Services.

But friends and family say they knew a woman who’d gotten a degree in medical coding and billing, who was an active mother dedicated in her son’s Cub Scouts, and who was preparing for a marriage.

The Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office ruled that Carver died of an accidental drowning and found no signs of trauma. They are awaiting the results of a toxicology test.

In Thurston County, investigators have no new leads to follow, said Sheriff’s Detective Lt. Chris Mealy.

“They’ve pretty much dried up,” he said.

They aren’t ruling out any theory but are working on the assumption that Smiley ended up in the water.

The remaining questions may never be answered, Mealy said.

“We’d like to have closure, as would everybody else,” he said.

Anyone with information can call the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at (360) 786-5530.

If she knocked on one guys door and he did not answer... Then she knocked on another.

There is no way that van door was open in the back without her walking around to open it.
So they were not in deep water.

It would be considered and opportunity for a bad guy...
woman walking around in the middle of the night seeking help.


The foot tracks around the van and leading to the van and away from the van would tell the tale if they were visable when the van was found.

One thing that gets me is the food purchase and then leaving before they got the food.

Stopping to use another persons phone..

She trusted people like everyone is her friend. Bad people love that. The perfect victim.

I really doubt she threw herself in the water.

Any scenario is possible.

That van windshield has what appears to be military base stickers on it on the lower left corner.

(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/4/l_f96bf84cdc1adee9c0feabd9b01d8957.jpg)

(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_6eee262345018b1d9c6fdf2fe65eea38.jpg)

I LOVE these two pictures.  It's just so sad.  The photos were taken from → http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=243140172&albumID=1185136&imageID=13746951

wow those are good pics

made me want to cry too  ::MonkeyNoNo::

The following was posted by Robb, Shantina's fiance: 

--------------

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=32238497&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=102165904&Mytoken=EEF18A85-30A6-45C8-9097D21358D6D312144005 (http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=32238497&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=102165904&Mytoken=EEF18A85-30A6-45C8-9097D21358D6D312144005)


DJ Cynthetek
M/39
SIlverdale, and over there,
Washington


Posted:  Mar 10, 2007 3:35 AM

Hey everyone, my name is Robb, and my girlfriend suffers from migraines, and it has had a very big effect on our relationship, she is moving out tommorow. Now I don't suffer from migraines, but I had acute cadnium posioning in 98, so I know it sucks, really bad.

I do a lot of six sigma work, so I suggested that she keep a journal, so we can identify the triggers for the effects. So far chocolate has popped up as a trigger.
But even after eliminating the chocolate, she still has them.

I will be doing soem research into what cause migraines to develop, and hopefully to find and offer support for those of use who have loved ones who suffer from migraines.

Robb

---------

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m4d2-Disappeared-without-a-trace-Shantina-Smiley-still-missing-fiance-holds-out-hope-shell-come-home
(Slide show avail)
Disappeared without a trace: Shantina Smiley still missing, fiancé holds out hope she'll come home
April 2, 2010

(http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID34328/images/100402074343Shantina_Smiley_and_7_year_old_missing_My_Space.jpg)
Shantina Smiley, missing since March 13, 2010

April 2, 2010 - (Slideshow) It has been reported that Shantina Smiley "vanished out of thin air", that her behavior was erratic in the hours before she disappeared, and that her disappearance is a mystery that has everyone, including investigators, stumped - yet her fiancé holds out hope she'll return home to him one day.

Shantina's fiancé, Robb Simmons, told Examiner.com Monday evening, "There's been no news. There have been a few leads and tips but nothing has come from them. It's wacky and mysterious but I'm still hoping and praying she'll come home."

Going back to the night she disappeared - Saturday, March 13 - Shantina was headed from her Silverdale, Wash., home on the Kitsap Pennisula, to her step-father's home in Castle Rock, a small town in Southwest Washington north of Portland. The trip should have taken just over two hours.

Shantina hadn't seen her step-father in years and, according to Simmons, was happy about the reunion.

She had her 8-year old son, Azriel Carver, with her. Her fiancé would meet up with them later in Castle Rock, after he stopped for a quick repair to his motorcycle.

But something went dreadfully wrong that night that no one, not even Simmons, can figure out.

After stopping for something to eat and to call Simmons to let him know she'd forgotten her cell phone at home, Shantina drove around Olympia for hours apparently trying to find her way back to the highway. For whatever reason, she continually went the wrong direction and supposedly ended up on a deserted beach down a dirt road on private property. (Click here for timeline).

The next day residents found Shantina's van stuck in the water, her wallet was on the seat but her purse was missing, her keys were on the dashboard, and her overnight bag was missing. The side door and back hatch were open, Shantina and Azriel were nowhere to be found.

Police and search teams searched on air, land, and in the water and found no sign of them. Then on March 18 Azriel's body was found on Fox Island in Puget Sound, an island twelve miles from where the van was found.

Shantina remains missing. People have speculated what could have happened to her.

"She could have been abducted," Simmons said, "she could be in someone's basement for all we know."

"She had every reason to want to live," Simmons said. "The Tuesday before she went missing her boss told her she was doing exceptionally well at work."

Shantina wanted a job with benefits, it's what she'd worked so hard to accomplish. She had two job interviews for full-time positions in medical coding and billing with benefits lined up. Simmons doesn't believe Shantina would have done anything to jeopardize fulfilling that dream.

"She was worried about my health," Simmons said, "but we didn't have an answer yet and my health problems could have been minor. I do think the worry may have caused her to relapse and start drinking again because she thought I could possibly have cancer."

It could make sense, Simmons said, since she'd had a rough life before they met. For the first time, he said, she was in a stable, happy relationship.

"Right now," Simmons said, "all I have is an urn filled with half of Azriel's ashes and the hope that she'll come home. We had plans laid out for the rest of our lives. I just hope and pray she's out there, somewhere, and that she's still alive. "

Detectives say anyone with information on Smiley and her son can call Thurston County Crime Stoppers at 360-493-2222, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at 360-786-5500 or 9-1-1.

I so sick of reading this guys nonsense .. He is grandstanding --poor me-- mo.
That last statement floors me.. "all I have is an urn filled with half of Azriel's ashes"

What happened to the other half ?   Now I really wondering about him..  ::MonkeyNoNo::

The other one "the real dad" is even worse.. ! Haven't seen him in years but now I am worried...
Is that where the other half of the boys ashes are ?? with him ?


My Bad..
I need to think of something different today..
Sorry

So she left with her purse and overnight bag, one shoe (assuming the one larger shoe found was hers) and no wallet or keys? This one is surly a strange one. I can't make sense of any of it.

I would assume the poor little boys ashes were split between the mom and the dad? Why would they do it that way? That is sort of sick isn't it? OMGosh that is disturbing for me to read. They need to put him back together for gosh sakes!

yes, I guess they split them...because there is a newspaper article written about him returning home with his son's ashes.  Poor Azriel...I bet he really wanted to be around his dad more.  So sad that it is like this.

That is wrong, they shouldn't have split them. These are his ashes for goodness sakes. To me it sounds disrespectful of this little boy. 1/2 for mom 1/2 for dad? Not right and something I would never want done god forbid to one of my children. jmo

For all both of these fools know mom is alive and being held by some strange Waco in the middle of God knows where..

MOM and only mom would deserve ALL of this poor little boy

For all anyone knows that boy was thrown in the water in another location right in front of his mother..

I am not saying that is what happened for sure.. but in this case ANYTHING is possible.

The world has seen stranger events withing just the last 24 months and if I go back years hundreds of stranger things have happened.

What bothers me most is the splitting up of this child.. and in Both of there own words this little child meant NOTHING to either of them.
By the original fathers own actions towards his blood son..by not even calling or visiting.
By the fiance only concern if for HER and not the child at all.

Never the less it is only ashes.. I do understand that.
This is about principal and by all rights the fiance has NO rights at all.
Read both of there crap from the very beginning and all I read is "oh poor me because"
It is all bullcrap.

It really bugs me..

Edward I would assume they did this because in the case the mom was found alive she would have a part of her son. Why not keep him together in WA and if the mom is found dead then bury them together? If she is alive and found then let the decision be made at that time. It bothers me a lot. The father I am sure has many regrets but this boy deserves more then this. To be devided as if he was nothing more then a possesion is wrong.
Ashes are ashes but they are ashes of a little boy. I find the whole thing very disturbing and disrespectful.

I understand what you are saying.

Still She is not confirmed dead She may very well be alive and the fiance is NOTHING by blood or law.

This childs remains in ashes should be protected until mom is found.

 

Yep completely agree with you Edward.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20100405/NEWS/304059993
Missing Silverdale mother mourned in Brinnon, where she lived as a teen
Sunday, April 4, 2010

BRINNON -- The life of Shantina Smiley, a Silverdale woman who has been missing since March 13, will be remembered in services set April 17 in Brinnon, where she once lived.

"Right now, I would love to see her walk back into our lives," said Smiley's grandmother, Dolly Smith of Brinnon.

"But I don't think we will see her again. She would never leave her son."


Service slated

The service is scheduled for 1 p.m. at the Brinnon Community Church, 52 Church Road, with the Rev. Bill Reid officiating.

On March 13, Smiley, 29, was traveling with her 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver, to a family gathering in Castle Rock, in southwest Washington.

The next day, her minivan was found partially submerged in the Puget Sound near Olympia the next day. No one was inside.

Her son's body was found on a Fox Island beach, near Gig Harbor, on March 18.

The Thurston County Sheriff's Office said Friday investigators have no new leads to follow.

"If she were alive, she would have called me by now," Smith said.
"She would let me know she was OK because she didn't like to worry her grandma. That's the kind of woman she was."

See it realistically

Like Smith, Smiley's fiancé Robb Simmons is using the service to reach closure.

"I hope that she will come back every damn day," Simmons said. "She could be in somebody's basement or someplace where we can't reach her.

"But we have to look at it realistically."

A memorial service was held for Azriel in March at the Brinnon Community Church.

Smith said she expected about 20 people to attend but about 90 showed up.

Smith anticipates a large crowd will gather for the service April 17.

Six years in Brinnon

Smith said she "partly raised" Smiley, who lived in Brinnon for six years prior to her 18th birthday.

Smiley graduated from Castle Rock High School in 1998 and earned a degree from Bremerton's Olympic College in medical coding and billing in 2009, Smith said.

She was scheduled to begin a new job on March 15.

Smiley met Simmons, a Silverdale photographer, on MySpace three years ago.

She had won the hearts of Simmons' two children, ages 11 and 15, Smith and Simmons said.

"Those two kids adored her, " Smith said. "It says a lot about her, that her future stepkids called her 'Mom' but called their own mother by her real name."

"My daughter started to call her 'Mom' totally on her own," Simmons said.

Many questions about Smiley's disappearance and her son's death, which captured national media attention, may never be answered, investigators have said.

Simmons told KING-TV that Smiley is a recovering alcoholic who relapsed just before she disappeared. He also said he doesn't believe the relapse played any role in her disappearance, The Associated Press said.

Smiley apparently took a haphazard route north of Olympia before parking on a remote beach. Surveillance cameras recorded her buying a bottle of wine at a store. A half-empty bottle with the cork in it washed up on the beach along with Azriel's ball, shoe and asthma inhaler.

Smith said that Smiley succeeded in spite of adversity, including an alcoholic and abusive mother.

"We both went through a lot in our lives," Simmons said. "When we met, I wasn't looking for someone, but we hit it right off."

http://www.tdn.com/news/local/article_19266dfe-4060-11df-b506-001cc4c002e0.html
Memorial service scheduled for mom who went missing near Olympia
April 4, 2010



Although she is still officially missing, the fiance of Shantina Marie "Kat" Smiley, formerly of Castle Rock, will hold a memorial service for her next week.

Robb Simmons announced that the service will be held at 1 p.m. April 17 at the Brinnon Community Church in Brinnon, Wash.

Smiley, 29, has been missing since March 13. She apparently became lost as she and her 8-year-old son, Azriel, headed from their home in Silverdale, Wash., to visit Smiley's stepfather in Castle Rock.

Their van was found partially submerged on a private Puget Sound beach near Olympia. Azriel, a drowning victim, washed up March 18 on the shore of an island 12 miles away. No trace has been found of Smiley.

Her stepgrandfather, Silas Smith, told The Daily News Smiley made the same drive from Silverdale to Castle Rock a couple of weeks before her disappearance and was looking forward to seeing her stepfather. She once lived with him and her late mother, Tammy Brown.

She grew up in Castle Rock, where she graduated in 1998 from Castle Rock High School and was active in cheerleading and drill team.

Azriel James Carver: Obituary
(November 28, 2001 - March 18, 2010) 


http://www.ottoredanz.com/index.cfm (http://www.ottoredanz.com/index.cfm)

http://obits.nola.com/niagara-gazette/Obituaries.asp?Page=Notice&PersonID=141279054 (http://obits.nola.com/niagara-gazette/Obituaries.asp?Page=Notice&PersonID=141279054)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Shantina/Azriel.jpg)

“Cherished Son and Nephew”


Azriel James Carver, age 8, of Silverdale, WA, entered into rest, tragically, on March 18, 2010 in Olympia, WA. Born on November 28, 2001, he was the son of Jed J. "Jay" (Megan Licht) Carver III of Lancaster, NY and Shantina Smiley of Silverdale, WA.

Azriel was an active member of the Boy Scouts of America. He was awarded, in his honor, the Spirit of the Eagle Award, which the Boy Scouts of America created as an honorary posthumous special  recognition for a registered youth member who has lost his or her life in a tragic accident or through  illness.

In his very short life, Azriel touched the hearts of many and within those hearts may he find peace.

In addition to his parents, Azriel is survived by his paternal grandmother, Esther (Dick Aronica) Cassatt of Grand Island, NY; his maternal grandfather, Keith Kanally of Oregon; one aunt, Dana (Pete Wieczorek) Carver of Niagara Falls, NY; two uncles, Shawn (Cheryl) Jasper of Bergholz, NY and Travis Wallingford of Longview, WA; and many cousins. He was predeceased by his paternal grandfather, Jed Carver, Jr. and his maternal grandmother, Tammy Brown.

The family will be present to receive friends on Wednesday from 6-8 PM in the Chapel of the OTTO REDANZ FUNERAL HOME, 2215 Military Road, Niagara Falls, NY (297-9007) where a Memorial Service will follow at 8:00 PM.

Flowers are gratefully declined. If desired, memorial offerings may be made to the family, c/o Dana Carver, 2413 Grand Island, Blvd., Grand Island, NY 14072.

Condolences may be sent to the family by visiting us at http://www.ottoredanz.com/index.cfm (http://www.ottoredanz.com/index.cfm) and http://www.legacy.com/niagara-gazette/Obituaries.asp (http://www.legacy.com/niagara-gazette/Obituaries.asp).

Aww thanks wykes, what a nice write up they put together. He was a cute kid, wasn't he? His smile was so bright. may he RIP.

I feel bad saying this but isn't it sort of strange to have a memorial service for someone who is still considered missing? She could be dead, but I just don't think it is long enough to have a memorial service. I have to say, I don't agree with some of the decisions being made. Splitting up ashes, memorial's for missing people. Just seems odd. Maybe everyone is so distraught that it is difficult on them? If that is the case, prayers of strength being sent their way.

She could be alive. She may very well be alive.
Anyone who even suggests she is dead is suspect in my mind.

It also means law enforcment is not looking for a bad guy..

They are going to the donut shop.

It's odd right? Not just me?  I read about this when it was posted but didn't respond because I didn't want to seem mean. But I just don't get it. Wonder what LE thinks of it.

Personally, I think it's premature to have a memorial service for Shantina "Kat" Smiley at this time.  If it were my friend or relative, I would hold off for at least a year in the hopes they may still be alive.  Maybe she hit her head and has amnesia?  Why the need for "closure" at this point?  There are too many questions and not enough answers imo.  When a person is considered dead or presumed dead then people stop asking questions and looking for answers.  Is there anything that some don't want to come to light?  If it were my friend or relative I would continue searching and waiting.  I don't want to seem mean either but it doesn't make sense to me for there to be a memorial for a person that has been missing less than 30 days, no witnesses or evidence of death and etc.  I would be using my time, energy and resources to continue looking then to eulogize.  JMHO 

Thanks Muffy for your opinion. I see we are on the same page. It does sort of make you go, hmmm.

Hey you have an autism awareness ribbon! I can't recall, I think you said you have a nephew with autism? Sorry if that is incorrect.

Yes Tracygirl, I have a young nephew "Clayton" with autism. 

We have seen many people over the years kidnapped and held and later and sometimes years later found alive. Just in the last 2 years we have at least 3 people found.

Why is this woman being treated as if she is dead.. ??

I ask again..

Who was knocking on doors ? who opened all the doors on the van ?
Somebody was walking around after the vehicle was disabled..
That person was not dead.
That person was not the son of this woman.
This woman did not throw herself into knee deep water and drown herself. I will not buy that.

There is something sinister going on here and I have a feeling.

The world needs to wake up when they are being bullshifted..

Why did she leave the food and walk out of the restaurant ?? Who hit her in the head ?
Did she hit herself in the head ? was it an accident ?
Who was really in that van ?

 From my experience. Anytime something does not make sense to this degree, you are being bullshifted.

jmho

Exactly Edward. There are way too many questions still unanswered to just assume she is dead. I don't like it at all.

Case archive album started:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/

Thank you  ::rhino::

I agree that something is very off about this case...not much has seemed right about it.  It is very difficult to put down what I really suspect...because I sure would hate to be wrong.  One of the biggest things to me...THE KEYS...they were seen on the dashboard...the front doors and back door all were open...so, she didn't "accidentally" drive into the lake, while she was lost...or if she did "accidentally" drive into the lake (since there were tracks suggesting that someone tried to get unstuck) it wasn't enough that she didn't have time to take the keys out of the ignition and place them on the dashboard.  I would think if someone were trying to harm them and push the vehicle into the water then they would make sure that they were buckled in to ensure that they didn't survive.  Apparently, they were not buckled in.  Another thing that sticks in my head...but could be totally innocent..is Robb repeating that she could be in someone's basement...I know that everyone's mind does not think alike...but, I think that is odd...off all of the things that could be said about her whereabouts...it is this.  And the memorial service...well, I have lost so many people through the years...and a funeral is difficult enough to have to plan and attend because that is closure...and when I have lost loved one's that I am very close to I don't want that closure right away...I don't want to accept that they are gone and a funeral does that...so to have a memorial service so soon is VERY odd to me...why not another form...a gathering of people to pray or to search...so on.  One more thing, I do hate to say this...and I do not mean any harm...but in today's society nothing surprises me...but, is it not possible that this was planned?  No one wants to think that way...and it seems out of character by most of what we are presented with...minus the ten possible abuse reports.  Possibly she knocked on the door and left...only to get someone's attention.  Maybe she is in "someone's basement"...waiting on the right time to appear...I am sure that any life insurance policies have been looked at...maybe this is why little Azriel's ashes were split...maybe Robb persuaded his dad...and this allows her to still have them.  It is odd that a boyfriend of a few years (if that) has the child's ashes...I mean I am sure that he was more of a dad then anyone...and I can understand in a tiny tiny little way...but, I know that I would NOT handle it like this...but that is me...and everyone is different...just some thoughts...and I don't have solid evidence to prove this theory.

Very Good questions and yes the B/F is my suspect for some of the questions and concerns you have..

Planned .... hmmm.. Very possible.

Is it odd to park a van at a shore line, open all of the doors and back hatch and sit inside or maybe outside? That didn't really stick with me too much because I have a van and have been known to open all of the doors and back hatch when at a park or the beach or something but that is maybe in the summer time, not at night in late winter when I am alone with my child. I would think it would be cold outside. Why would she (or whoever) do that? Why do you open up a car like that? Maybe airing it out? Did she smoke? But this is the way the van was found for what ever the reason, so it leads me to wonder if Azriel just simply floated away from the van? If they were parked I could see being unbuckled, maybe he feel asleep and was over come or panicked when the water reached the van?

Did we hear if the toxicology report was done and if it came back clear?

IMO...

I think that Azriel was accidentally drown with the help of his mother.  She apparently was having problem coping with her boyfriends illness and maybe just the thought of being alone with her child once again was too much.  The circumstances are just plain weird however.

She might have been drinking to get up the courage to do "what she had to do"

I thought about that tracygirl...it isn't odd to park at the beach and open the doors and rest or enjoy the beach.  It is just odd that a child drowns while (possibly) doing that and the mom hasn't been found...and it is odd that it was cold weather out, I didn't think about that.  It seems that they would be bundled up.  It is also odd that this happened just a few miles from the last reported place of being seen.  So, it doesn't seem that she would ask for directions to the interstate and then end up there just relaxing.  But, it doesn't make sense if this was planned...that she stop at the house to ask for directions.  I can get the purposefully getting on camera thing...but, not stopping at this house.  I was thinking that the van would sink faster if the doors were open...water would weigh it down faster...does anyone know?  Oh, I just found that answer:
A vehicle with the windows (and doors) open will submerge faster than the same vehicle with its windows (and doors) closed. The faster the water enters the interior of the vehicle, the faster it loses its buoyancy and the quicker it descends.
A vehicle with the windows (and doors) open will submerge faster than the same vehicle with its windows (and doors) closed. The faster the water enters the interior of the vehicle, the faster it loses its buoyancy and the quicker it descends.
(http://www.911dispatch.com/video/miami/powerphone.html)

I would think that the only reason that all of the doors were open (besides relaxing or airing the van out) would be for it to sink faster.  Did something happen to Azriel on accident, and she got scared?  But, that still doesn't explain how she ended up at that hard to find location.  Every theory has a major area that makes no sense.  When I start to think okay it could be this...then something big is there that says no that doesn't explain this certain part...and so on and so on.

Of all of the theories it makes more sense that she someone found this area...ended up stuck (since it did show that)...maybe tried to get help by knocking on doors...(even though only one house heard the knock)...had Azriel stay in the vehicle so that he wouldn't have to walk too...came back to the van and he was gone (I can't recall what time the tide was highest)...maybe it hit while she was gone...when she came back...she frantically searched for him...which could explain the doors being open...maybe she was swept away during this time.  Or maybe she survived and cannot handle it.  This still does not answer WHY or HOW she was in that location. 

It was not in water when it pulled in.. If the tide came in, it was in only 1-2 ft of water at the rear of the van. Wtar never got inside the vehicle at all.
It is freezing watar, so nobody is going to desire to be in it.


 

I wanted to say that I agree with those who think that Shantina and her son's deaths are not your "typical" accidental drownings.

The weird facts are just too many to ignore.

But, it looks as if her disappearance and the death of her son will never be prodded as it should, and maybe a third party will get away with murder.

Of course, there is no evidence to prove murder, but there are a few details of what happened that night that say "no way!"

No way. She had not told ANYONE that she intended to commit suicide, she left no suicide note, her life was improving and she seemed happy.

The only thing that "could" explain her decision to take her own life and her son's is the disease that her fiance said he thought he had, because of his diagnosing using Google.

She was (or is) an intelligent woman, and she had to know not to take online diagnosis seriously. She herself had gone through thinking she had a terminal disease to knowing that she was fine.

If the drownings happened because she had been drinking, or taking drugs, or because of a sudden bout of migraines or a stroke (or whatever,) she could've left traces and evidence behind. No drug paraphernalia, no more alcohol bottles than a half bottle of wine.

Of course, we may never know if she suffered from a sudden medical emergency, unless her body is recovered and an autopsy done.

I also think that there is a chance that Shantina got lost, again, after talking to the Williams and went on to another house to ask for directions or ask to use the phone.

Maybe someone there decided to take advantage of her and her son? Maybe she caught the eye of some criminal, while she was driving around looking for a phone, who hijacked the car, disposed of both victims and then drove the van to where it was found.

The case of the Olympia rapist last week, who went inside a car while the owner was in the store, and then when she got back to the car he jumped at her and make her drive to a remote location (not far from where Azriel was found) and raped her, comes to mind.

There's always the possibility of the "significant other" being involved, we've seen this in many cases before. In those cases the motives were infidelity, or large life insurance benefits, or children's custody/child support, or spousal control.

Shantina and Azriel's "typical" drownings may have other explanations, including a third party. I hope that the police in the area don't get lazy and ignore facts and fail to ask the right questions in order to really solve the case.

You bring up some interesting points, Itaryl Moosee.   I wonder if we'll ever know what really happened?  And welcome to Scared Monkeys  ::HelloKitty::

Great thoughts Itaryl Moosee  and welcome to Scared Monkeys.

thanks Edward...I wasn't sure.  So true Itaryl Moosie...all great points.  I have posted a ton of theories...(my mind goes way too fast)but, something always seems to disprove it.  I know that I have asked before about the Williams...what do they know about them?  They aren't an "old" couple like the media was leading us to believe in the beginning...but, I haven't been able to find out too much about them.  Not saying that they are guilty...because she very well could have ended up asking for directions from someone else...but, with that theory...it really doesn't explain her prior behavior...why did she stick around Olympia for so long?  And so on...as far as an Olympia rapist...wow that is the first that I have heard of that...what a possibility...I believe that I recall someone in here...making that suggestion awhile ago.  It seems though that person would have popped up very shortly after leaving the Williams house...and yes, the crime could have been committed in a different area...and then the vehicle dumped.  Maybe that is why all of the doors were open...maybe they intended to have it sink...but it got stuck and so it was left just like that.

I did not know anything about the rapist.. Maybe we need to do some research on currant and past crimes in the area for clarity..
Maybe he was hiding in the van.. But if he was then when she was in the restaurant why didn't she tell the waitress to call the police ?
It is possible..but then why did she stop and use the phone and then give absolutely no clue ?

But if you read the B/F own words.. He shows signs..... especially his last words.
I tinks he tinks he has pulled the wool over everyones eyes. ::MonkeyWink::

umm..But not mine.

I do not have time to back and dissect his statements at the moment.. If I get time I will.

I will help you find his own quotes and actions...I am curious myself.  I like to look at all possibilities and then discount them...it is so easy to be persuaded...so, for me it is better to look at reasonable possibilities and then discount them...I will look into the rapist as well.

There is one picture that I copied from his business public website that I didn't see on the collection shown above. I'll add it here, to show the black shoes belonged to her, with the brass little caps and all.

(http://s803.photobucket.com/albums/yy315/TomboyKetchup/Shantina-shoes.jpg)

If we can't show faces, let me know and I will use bars to cover the face, or delete it all together.

Thanks for the welcome. I hope it's well deserved.

 ::piggy::

WTH??????  Check out Robb's latest comment on facebook:

~~~

Robb Simmons 
Just to let you all know I am still hoping she show up, preferably alive, and that she can come back home to us. Had another medical test, the media liked to chop up word for drama saying I had cancer, nope none there, all is good! Just wish Shantina and Azriel were here to share the news!
Tue at 9:11pm

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=10150133110780096 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=10150133110780096)

~~~

"I am still hoping she show up, preferably alive...."    ????   

::MonkeyShocked::  Well... duh! 

Hi Itaryl, and a warm (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Smilies/welcome.gif) to you! 

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Shantina/Shantina2.jpg)

Hi Itaryl, do you by chance happen to have a link to where we can read more about that "Olympia rapist"??  Am hoping that LE is looking into this to see if there may be any connection! 

LOL.. Well we all hope she shows up alive..
She will sure be surprized to only see half of her sons ashes if she does...

He acts like life will be great when she or if she shows up alive..
Her son is dead.. Life will not be OK.

1/2 of the ashes.. I never herd of such a thing.. But that is just me and my opinion and my opinion does not make it one way or the other..

A what if Scenario..
Is it possible a boat came in and took them off and that is how the child ends up drowning ?
What I am suggesting is that a bad guy actually makes the approach by boat maybe even an associate of said rapist who could have been in hiding inside the van the whole time ?..
 The van brought to this location on purpose ?? They throw the child out of the boat and take mom to some undisclosed location.. ??

By the way ..I have never seen the inside of the van and I do not know for positive that there was no water inside of the van.. I was making that determination by what we have been reading.. I have no way of knowing if water was or was not inside of that van but if it was it would sure do damage to any other persons DNA who may have been inside that van along with the mom and the boy..

What a beautiful woman.

Agreed Edward!  And your 'what if' scenario is very plausible.  Wonder if we'll ever know what happened? 

As to the van, it was reported in one or more news articles that the van 'had water up to the seats'.  Now whether that was just up to the seat cushions or all the way to the top of the seats wasn't made clear.  However in an early report, the one who reported the van in the water that morning said that the van 'was nearly submerged'.  So I dunno who/what to believe, there have been so many different details reported here and there.  Could just be rotten reporting, dunno.  It's frustrating when trying to pin down the actual details.   

From reports by others on different message boards, high tide was about 6 am that morning.  So if they did fall asleep in the van, they could have awoken early to water coming into the van.  It's also been reported that there was hardly any moon out that night, so I'm wondering if it was still totally dark at 6 am when the water came into the van? 

In any case, in one of the latest news articles, LE has said something to the effect that altho they aren't considering foul play, he doesn't believe that those items found 1/4 down the beach 'washed ashore'.  That's because of the differing weight etc of those items.  He believes they were placed there in some way.  And also that those items were found on the beach just below those steep steps leading up from the beach to that home where the pounding/banging was heard in the middle of the night.  The owner of that home said that if anyone fell off those steps they would die. 

So with all that in mind, my thinking is that Shantina/Azriel didn't just fall asleep in the van and get washed out to sea.  The above seems to place them both 1/4 a mile down the beach from the van, near those steep steps.  This could be the point where Azriel gets washed out to sea somehow.  My own thoughts on this are that they were being chased by someone, either on/near those steps, were throwing those items at their pursuer, one or both fell, and when high tide came in, washed the body/bodies out to sea. 

See pic of those steep steps in next post.

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq117/Wyks_/Shantina/shantina_steepsteps.jpg)

Here's the link to that map/pic of the steep steps above.  On the map at this link you can scroll around and see the area where the van was found, a 1/4 mile southwest of these steps. 

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rvsh5k4rtn5v&scene=4850557&lvl=2&sty=b&where1=Zangle%20Rd%20NE,%20Olympia,%20WA%2098506 (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rvsh5k4rtn5v&scene=4850557&lvl=2&sty=b&where1=Zangle%20Rd%20NE,%20Olympia,%20WA%2098506)

hmmm interesting. No idea about this case anymore. I do know however, if I went missing and god forbid my son....(cant say it) and my husband, the kids step dad had his ashes split up, well I would pretty much want to split him up. Sorry but I find that very disturbing and to be honest, selfish of any parent who would want to do that in order to have the ashes. Some things you just cant divide, a child's ashes is one. jmo

I can't tell where a 1/4 mile would be. Would you mind doing a map that shows where the van was to where this house is? Sorry, I am directionally challenged.

Very upper end homes.

O/T
If any monkey has time, would you mind checking out the thread for Jacob Cabinaw under the missing persons folder? Thanks

I can't tell from here, but those don't look like steep steps as much as they do a tram.  I've lived in recreational lake areas and some of the homes have trams to get up and down something that steep to get to a dock/boat house and etc..  Usually if there are stairs, they are zig zagged and or with landings every so often.  jmho

I searched (via Bing) and at the time that satellite map was made, there's only 1 set of stairs up the cliff. But I don't think that is the Grimmer home.

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/IsViewtoZanglebeachview.jpg)

Using Wyks link you can maneuver the map to see just how steep it is from these particular homes down to the beach, almost a straight drop, no slope.

This set of stairs leads up to a deck first.

Does anyone know the addy of the Grimmers? I'd like to know for sure if that is their home.

Found it.

The big home with stairs to beach is not the Grimmers. They do live right nearby but not on the beach.

On the map, Grimmer home might not have been built yet? It shows trees, lots of trees. But it would be right near where IV Ct and IV Dr intersect.... and Grimmers are on Island View Drive.

Thank you for posting the map. It doesn't seem far from the steps. Now are the grimmers the same people who had a 3AM knocking at their door? Do we know where that house is?

8520 Island View Dr...@ Amandareckonwith

I mentioned the story of the rapist as something to be thought of when developing all kinds of theories of what could've happened... not as fact.

Here's one of the news articles about the rapist thing. It is actually in Tacoma, but he made her drive South towards Olympia. I figure the guy knows the area and maybe it wasn't the first time he got into a woman's car and made her drive away to rob her or assault her.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Attacker-hid-in-womans-car-89086777.html

Man hides in car, assaults woman near Tacoma park
Similar Stories
STACEY MULICK; Staff writer
Published: 03/25/1012:05 am | Updated: 03/25/10 2:49 pm

Tacoma police were searching Wednesday for a man who hid in a woman’s car and sexually assaulted her Tuesday near Wapato Park.

The woman told police she didn’t know the man, officer Andrew Hankins said.

The incident was reported at 12:14 p.m. The woman told officers she got into her unlocked car in the 6200 block of South Wapato Street and the attacker was already inside the vehicle.

“She heard something in the rear of the car, turned around and he was there,” Hankins said.

The man told her to drive away, Hankins said, and when she stopped near Wapato Park off South 72nd Street he sexually assaulted her. He got out of the car and was last seen running north.

Officers and a police dog searched the area but did not find the attacker. He was described as white and in his mid-30s. He wore blue jeans and a black hooded sweatshirt.

Stacey Mulick, staff writer
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/25/1122558/tacoma.html?storylink=rss

The knocking on the garage door is one of the most puzzling facts about this case.

Had it been Shantina or her son knocking, the dogs should've picked up the scent the next day... but they didn't.

So, we can assume it weren't them knocking on the guys garage door. And, if it weren't them knocking in the wee hours of the morning, who was?

My opinion only.

Itaryl Moosee

The guy hiding behind the seat is a common for kidnap/rape these days.. I myself and everyone should drum it into the minds of the people we love to inspect your vehicle before entry because of it..

Any crime in this area involving violence should be noted and because he had he drive towards the area we seek answers in then it is good to post it..
 
What we would be looking for is a pattern of behavior.

On the garage door... That fellow said her herd it.. maybe he was dreaming.. maybe it was an animal.. maybe the Dogs brought out to sniff were having a bad hair day..
It again is one of those items that gets written on the white board and kept in memory..

The area is VERY populated.. In the dead of night I do believe you can hear a scream..Nobody seems to have.

Just witnesses who see a confused woman, who fails to take the food already purchased at a restaurant, her son indicating his mom was hit in the head. The same mom ends up barrowing somebodies phone to call family with no indication of trouble other then of being lost, and these nice people who lend a phone witness a confused and lost individual, who eventually ends up driving onto a beach in the dark and her vehicle parked backwords to the waters edge with all the doors open, eventually being half submerged in water. The son dead of drowning and the young mother missing..

Did the perp in the rape show any similar behavior ?
Yes.. He HID in a vehicle and WAITED for his victim to arrive then he threatened her, had her DRIVE to an ISOLATED LOCATION where he attacked her. He runs away leaving his victim unharmed and able to give description.
Maybe he took it one step further this time.. Nobody is able to give description..
How would he know this out of the way location ? He a fisherman ? He a resident of the area ? Does he have a small boat ? Who brought the boat if so ? He have an accomplice ?
Where is Shantina now ? Same as her son ?

Where did she first get into the van ?? Was it locked or unlocked ? Is it possible he was laying in wait for this mother ?

You can build a scenario out of almost anything but I wont throw the rapist off the list at this moment because he is the only known criminal noted so far.... How many more are there ?

The area looks very nice and quiet,, I am beside myself for what has happened here.

 

when she was in the resturant ordering food was her son in the vehicle ??  ::MonkeyEek::

That poor woman who was raped, how scary for her. I saw this once on a tv show when I was younger, a man came from the backseat and put a knife to a womans throat. I always check my car now, just so scary.

Edward I think the son was in the restaurant with her. I think this is where he said his mom hit her head? I could be wrong but I think so.

I had wrote before that maybe SHE didn't drive the van to the beach, maybe someone else did. I still think that could be why this van was found there at that spot.

The last place she stopped was that store right? She doesn't appear to be anxious at that point. If someone jumped in her van, I would think it was after the store stop.

was the boy with her when she purchased the wine ?

I am looking for where a perp would have leverage over her.

Paying for and then leaving the food could have been a call for help.. Pay attention..

Stopping to use the phone could have also been a reaching out or a buying time move on her part.


Somebody would have had to have leverage Over Her for any of this to exist and her sone would be the one to protect.




 

"The banging on the door"

What if the perp had chased her down and that was her head hitting the door ?? or even the child.. who ran after mom was attacked and almost got away.

I have sen with my own eyes trained dogs miss the mark while sniffing.. It is not 100 percent.

Yes it is on video somewhere. I will bump it.

Bump
This is very interesting to watch. At the end of the tape she gets into the van. It seems she unlocks it by a keyless entry. As she drives away you can see when she backs up she turns the wheel in the wrong direction, then pulls forward but I think she hits something, backs up and goes again. Take a look and tell me what you all think

Grabs a bottle of Gallo Wine.

Cheap wine..

Looks like she does unlock the vehicle and the boy jumps in with his water no problem..
It does look like she pulls forward and hits a curb or something then backs up and takes off.
 
Maybe the perp jumps in the vehicle at the restaurant.

Only half the bottle finished when found.. hmm
DNA in any of that wine ??

So much info and so many witness to these 2 and Nothing.. so far.

It is a toss up.. It looks like she fumbles for a key and then realizes she left the vehicle unlocked..

security cams obviously worked very well and if a perp had gotten into the vehicle I would think it would have been seen on cam before they ended up back at the van getting in.

I do hope police reviewed her van from when she got out of the vehicle and observed the whole video of the van while they were inside of the store.

By the way.. Normal police are not investigators.
Traffic cops sent out to investigate is a disaster at times.
I do hope investigators are working this case.
 

Itaryl, thanks for the link to that story on the rapist.  It's good to keep in mind anything of this nature happening around the same time, cuz there possibly could be a connection. 

Because you are a new monkey, I'll just let you know that yes it's ok to put pics and quote articles here, as well as including the link to where that was found.   ::MonkeyWink:: 

Bumping the time line, mainly for my use.

So this video was of her buying wine at 7:50? I was thinking it was at 9:50 stop...
So this is the time line?
AT 5 she leaves,
7:50 she buys wine, says she is lost, looks at a map
9:00 at the restaurant, leaves before food is ready, son said she hit her head. She is seen stumbling in the parking lot.
9:50 stopped at another store and bought??
10 stopped at the house to use the phone.
So where was she from 7:50 to 9?

I wonder if she was on anti depressants. You cannot drink while on them. 1/2 of a bottle in 1 hour? That would get me tipsy enough to get lost.

Yep, it looks like she didn't pull far enough back at first and hits the curb.  Weird cuz she hits the curb at the other store as well, when she pulled out and drove around the pump.  Wondering if this was her first trip using the van?  As in the first time she drives the van?  It's like her perception of space needed in driving it is off.  Or something. 

I used to have a Ford Econoline van, verrrrrry long.  First time I tried backing that thing up, my perception was off, I didn't have a clue how much space was needed in backing it up.  Too bad for me that it (1) was not an automatic - had a clutch and (2) was parked near a 5 ft drop.  So when I backed up out of the parking space, the rear end was very near the edge of the dropoff.  I was panicking the nearer to it I got, and guys nearby were laffing.  I finally got so dang pissed that I floored the son-of-a-biatch and screeched forward, laying rubber.   ::MonkeyHaHa:: 

Just saying that to say .. maybe she was new to driving this van?  Dunno.. but she sure had some probs with figuring out where the nearby curbs were, in her turning. 
 

In some reports I've read that she left at 4.15p, others have said 4.30p, others say 5p.  I'd like to get one final true report on when she actually left! 

IIRC, it's been reported that she stopped somewhere around 6:45 and called Robb.  Will look again for links for that time frame.  On another forum it's been said that nowhere in the videos we've seen of her and Az at these stops, does she use the phone. 

Sooooo... did she really call Robb?  At all, ever, during the trip?? 
 

It is all kinda strange..

Why did the store sell her booze if she was drunk.
Why didn't the people at the restaurant call police if she was falling down drunk traveling with a child. ???????????? That is a big one.
What about the people use her phone question if she was drunk ? she should have been slammed by then..
Why didn't the people question her at the store at the harbor ? they sell her something ? what was that .
In that store in the harbor was there surveillance cameras ?? what about that dead end road ? how would she know ? we see the house she would pass by.. the people that own that upper end home never questioned why this person went down there private road to the beach ?

Antidepressants ? did she have a perscription for that ?

A timeline that folks over at InSessions have done: 

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=365616&page=30


Saturday

4:15 Shantina calls Robb Simmons twice to let him know she is leaving for Castle Rock. Robb asked Shantina to grab his phone charger as his battery is nearly dead (from Robb’s website)

4:30 Robb’s Cub Scout training ends early (originally slated to end at 6:30) He leaves for Castle Rock

5:00 Shantina and Azriel leave Silverdale for Castle Rock to visit Shantina's stepfather

6:45 Shantina calls Robb Simmons to ask him to bring her cell phone, but he tells her he has already left for Castle Rock. Shantina said Azriel was hungry and she had pulled off the freeway, but didn‘t know quite where. Complained of heavy traffic, and gave Robb the address to her stepfathers place in Castle Rock, saying she would be there shortly..At the time of this call he was stopped in Toledo-Vader to make a quick repair (from Robb’s website)

7:40 Robb arrives in Castle Rock at Shantina’s stepfathers house.

7:50 Smiley and Azriel stop at Handy Pantry at 2010 Division Street Northwest in Olympia. Purchased a bottle of wine. Surveillance video shows her rolling the front tires over a curb.

9:00 Smiley and Azriel stop at Martin Way Diner at 2423 4th Avenue East, Olympia. She buys a corndog but does not take it with her. She trips and falls on her knee in the parking lot on the way back to the van.

9:00 Robb and Shantina’s Stepfather start getting worried. Checked with WSP about accedents and drove around the area. Called Shantina’s grandfather in Brinnon on stepfather’s phone, and learned of the earlier phone call from Shantina. Went back to stepfather’s house.

9:45 Surveillance video at shows Shantina stopping at Gull Harbor Mercantile, 4932 Boston Harbor Rd, but the store was closed. There have been reports of her looking in the windows.

10:00 Shows up at Dennis Williams house on 46th Ave NE Olympia to ask for directions and use the phone. Called her Grandfather in Brinnon, WA (which is northeast of Silverdale) and told him she had been in an “accident” Azriel was given pizza by the residents. She appeared sleepy and disoriented, and looked like she’d been crying

10:15 (approx) Surveillance video shows the van passing Gull Harbor Mercantile heading north on Boston Harbor Rd.

11:00 Police believe the van was at the beach at this time.

12 midnight Robb and stepfather travel up I-5 checking rest stops. Returned to Castle rock, to get a couple hours sleep

1:00am Beach area resident hears a knock at garage.

Daybreak- Robb gets a phone charger and heads up I-5 to Olympia and back down to Castle Rock. At this time he is in contact with authorities.

Sunday

10am Van found on beach near the home of Jim Pribbenow, 8345 Zangle Rd, Olympia


~~~~~

I'd like to add that at around 6am on Sunday was high tide.   And that there was little to no moonlight Saturday night/Sunday morning. 

difference between low and high tide in inches ?

I've only read the word 'drunk' on forums etc, not reported that way by the media.  I could have missed it tho.  In the news reports, I've seen them use the word 'disoriented'.  Have you read it reported by anyone at these stops she made that she appeared 'drunk'?  I do remember the waitress at the diner saying something about it, but can't remember what that was.  I didn't get the impression tho that she had appeared falling down drunk.  That she had 'tripped' in the parking lot.  Which could be due to her being disoriented. 

Seems to me that Robb is the one who put out the impression that she could have been drunk.  Why would he do that? 

Wonder why we aren't getting much info from her family/friends?  Seems the most of what we have been hearing has been from Robb.  And I haven't seen much from Robb that has been backed up and confirmed by her family/friends. 

Add this to the above timeline:

8.00 pm - Safeway (3215 Harrison Ave NW), on surveillance cam

Safeway, at 8p. 

One news report said that she dropped by a friends house.  Would love to know more about that.  Or if it was just sloppy reporting by the media.  ?? 

"Police say Smiley then stopped by a diner in east Olympia to order food, but then she left without taking the food.  Workers say she fell in the parking lot upon leaving the establishment.  Smiley was then traced to a grocery store in Boston Harbor before she visited a friend nearby. "

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/state/story/Body-of-child-found-on-Fox-Island-is-missing-boy/lsOYwCNxmE-AWgKbPDAikA.cspx

I am trying to account for that 1/2 bottle of wine.

Drunk..

Disorientated is like a medical condition..

As far as her hitting the curb.. Lots of people these days drive like that.

Why do you suppose she stops to look in the windows of the harbor store ?

Robb ? He.... I just do not know about him. ::MonkeyNoNo::

visited a friend nearby ? wth is that ?
Who was that ?

Wyks, it was at the Safeway where Shantina bought the wine.

I forgot about this detail. I am having a hard time with this case, keeping everything straight because the actions are so strange.

Who was this friend? So does this friend account for the stalling she seemed to be doing?

Maybe she split the wine with said friend?

Ok thanks!  It looks like a convenience store from the video, lol. 

I dunno who the 'friend' was.  That's the only mention of this that I could find.  Didn't find that reported in any other place.  Could be more sloppy media reporting too. 

SORRY. I was wrong. She looked at a map at Safeway, while Az watched himself doing arm & leg movements for the surveillance camera...
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/?action=view&current=001-2.flv

She bought wine at Handy Pantry.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/?action=view&current=004.flv

Another weird thing.. Ok a couple.. lol 

All involve .. Robb. 

It appears from what investigators say.. that Robb actually left before Shantina.  He supposedly left at 4:30, she supposedly left at 5. 

She supposedly calls Robb at 6:45 and says she is lost.  He is supposedly ahead of her on the road.  Why doesn't he just tell her to stay put and backtrack to where she was? 

Ok, Robb gets to her step-fathers house and when Shantina doesn't show up, they start looking for her around 10 pm or so.  Robb says that around 12 pm they quit and go to sleep for a couple of hours............. WTF??  Who does that when a loved one is missing?? 

Ahhhh ok, thanks! 

In this video, at the very beginning, it shows that the van side door shuts automatically.  So how is it possible that the van was found with the door wide open? 

http://www.kitsapsun.com/videos/detail/surveillance-video-shows-shantina-smiley-son-satur/ (http://www.kitsapsun.com/videos/detail/surveillance-video-shows-shantina-smiley-son-satur/)

I don't know that Edward.  Am looking for it on InSessions, cuz it was discussed there at some point.  Someone looked it up on a weather channel or something. 

What I've found reported is that the water level had reached seat level.  At question is whether that was seat cushion level or the top of the seats?  Also reported by the one who first saw the van was that it was 'nearly submerged'.  Which would indicate to me that the water level was as high as the top of the seats. 

Haven't found a pic yet of the van as LE actually first found it.  In the pic we've seen, the water had receded all the way back from the van. 

And then it was reported about 10am, high tide was at about 6 am.  So the van had to have been back-end in deeper water before LE even got there.
   

I am getting confused, lol. So she visits the store at 7:50 and only looks at the map? BTW, it seems that sweet little Azriel is watching himself on the camera video, my son does that ::MonkeyWaa:: so sad...
Then at 9 goes to the restaurant to order food but leaves
then at 9:50 goes to the store to buy wine? Sorry I am  ::MonkeyConfused::

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=301809

<snipped>

"According to police, there was no indication that a crime took place inside Smiley's 2005 Dodge Caravan."

~~~~

Isn't that an odd way to word things?  Seems it leaves open the possibility of a crime occuring outside the van. 

Well... I could be wrong... am thinking that she stopped at Handy Pantry at 7.50p and bought the wine, and water for Az.  Then at about 8pm she stopped at Safeway and looked at a map.  Then around 9pm stops at the diner. 

Can you read what the time is on the video

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/?action=view&current=004.flv

If the van was at all submerged there would be no evidence because it washed away.


Robb is a question mark in this case..
Just so many things that he said.

His actions that night don't make a whole lot of sense either.

Where did he go to sleep? did he go back to his home or the step dads?

Here's one post at InSessions, talking about the level of tide.  Maybe you or someone else can make some sense of it!   

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=365616&page=35
03-26-2010, 03:35 PM   Post #1371

The question of how deeply the van was submerged has been playing and replaying in my mind. Common sense says pretty deep because of the 12 foot difference in tide, but the pictures I've seen just don't support it.

How good at math are you? We need a math expert to figure out if the van was submerged. Anyone versed in the Pythagorean theorem

According to the Google legend the beach looks to be about 100+ feet wide
(more at low tide)

Looking at this picture
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=1
and figuring out the degree of slope will add the hypotenuse.

The short leg is 12 feet
(rise of tide http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/oly/2010-03-13 )
and the van looks to be parked about half way from low tide to tree line (50 feet up) The van is what? 5 feet tall?

From what I recall, the step-father's house.  Cuz Robb says they got up and around daybreak they left again to search.  Then were called by LE around 10 am or so. 

When he did go back later that day, he didn't go home, he went to the home of the mom of his kids and babysat or some such.  Weird.  One would think he would have at least gone to his and Shantina's home to check and see if she had come back etc. 

True!    And the van's windshield wasn't under, cuz there was still mud splattered up on it, and one can see where the windshield wipers had been used to clear the view after that. 

I agree Edward.. there's much in what Robb has said that creates more questions than it answers. 

Not sure if this link has been posted in here yet, or not.  Just to be sure, here is the link to Shantina's Myspace pics:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=243140172 (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=243140172)

About the fiance, I would like to think that every awkward thing that he has typed on his webpage and every odd statement he has made on interviews are products of his public speaking awkwardness and of the emotional pain of loosing his girlfriend and stepson.

His webpage does seem more like an alibi carefully thought out and typed for the world to see than a webpage designed to keep people updated on the case. Last time I looked he had taken it down, not sure if it's back on.

Personally, if I were in the same situation he was that night and one of my dear ones was missing and my phone battery was dead, I would FIRST go to a 24 hour WalMart and buy a phone charger, in case my dear one called... and I would call home every 30 minutes or so, in case she got frustrated with the traffic and went back home.

He says he went back and forth from Olympia to Castle Rock that night, then he went to sleep for a few hours and then went to have brunch. Personally, I couldn't have slept that night, and only would sleep when exhausted the next day, maybe for an hour or two.

Of course, not everyone is the same or react to things the same way.

Finally, one thing that I have wondered about and nobody has discussed is RS's two children. The trip was a "family" thing. Why were the two children left somewhere else, and didn't go in the trip? Maybe they spent the weekend with the mother? I thought he had total custody? Maybe visitation?

On his statement (somewhere) I read he went back to "sit" with the two children after he left the Olympia area.

I think maybe I am following too many cases because I don't recall reading he went to brunch... Brunch??? Took a nap and got something to eat. Most of the families and loved ones go days without eating and sleeping.

I wonder if her going missing was a normal thing. Some people are like that, just get lost in what they are doing or are spontanious. Or I wonder if he was the jealous type? Maybe he stopped looking because he was upset, maybe thinking she was with another man?

I don't think I have every read a case like this. Nothing makes sense. Like a poster said, you think one thing but it doesn't connect with something else. I am truly thrown for a loop.

I know he said on his webpage that when he woke up he took a bite to eat, then went to Olympia and back to Castle Rock.

But, later he writes:

"We went to get a bit to eat, when I received a phone call from the Thurston County Sheriff’s office. "

I figure that since the van was found at around 10:30am, that he was called right after, so breakfast must've been brunch. Though, I recall reading somewhere that he was called around 11:00am.

He then says: "The had found the Van.  In a follow up call, they informed me that they had to pull it out of the bay at the end of a dead end road. I immediately headed up there and say the van.  As many of you know, I usually have a camera on hand, besides being waterlogged, the van did have some damage, but no broken windows."

Why make the camera comment?

And the windows comment?

Very interesting.
I see it is not just me that is reading through this fellow and questioning actions surrounding the disapperance of this woman and her son.
Disclaimer:
That does not make him guilty of anything..

Where are the links to these quotes?

Not just you, Edward.  The more this guy talks, the more questions about himself he creates.  Am hoping that LE is just letting him rattle on and paying close attention to what he does and says.  There's a whole lot of weirdness about him, and the more I learn about him, the more I can see that Shantina *may have* been trying to ditch his <seemingly> controlling, jealous azz.  I wouldn't blame her a bit either. 

It does seem that the investigator's are looking at this a bit more closely, not simply taking it for granted that she got drunk and they both went into the water at high tide or such.  Cuz the investigator is questioning those items found on the beach and doesn't believe that they 'washed up' there. 

The weird thing for me is that supposedly the dogs they brought in were not able to track their scent anywhere off the beach.  So that tells me it likely wasn't either one pounding/banging on that house in the middle of the night.  And if not them, who??  why??  And where did Shantina go, except into the water?  Sigh. 

Could Az have slipped/fell into the water, Shantina tried to save him and couldn't, so in desperation she flung herself into the water as well?  I dunno.  And I dunno why I cannot see this as a murder/suicide but can see it as an accident/suicide.  Maybe I'm trying to give her too much credit.  I just have the gut feeling that there was foul play with a third party <or more> involved.  And I dunno who that might be.  I hope LE does not give up trying to think outside the box on this case. 

The water in this area is protected for the most part.. there is no crashing waves and undertow currants to suck you out to sea from what I can see ... this is a inland water way.

The van was driving on a sand bar.. and when they drove in, the water was not high tide so they could get out and walk around, and most likely did. behind the van if you were to walk out there is a drop off.. but a person would have to walk out there and the weather and water is cold..very cold.

Nobody would want to walk out in that water. When the tide came in they had to be out of the van and walking..



So who was the friend she went to see ?? was that a male friend or female friend ??

SusieQ, I've been following this case from the beginning.

Within two days he had set up a web page at http://www.robbsimmons.com in which he detailed what happened, according to him.

After Azriel was found, he took that page down.

Now that URL just has his directory with a few files. There are only two files (as of now, may change later) dated 2010, one of them a missing person flyer that someone made for him.

But... I got a copy of his old web page.

I learned to do that while following other cases. I found that many times people set their facebook, myspace, or other web pages to "private" or delete them when the case becomes public or people start questioning things.

Anyway, here's a copy of the web page as I found it at the beginning.


So, I have no URL. I'm sure this page has been quoted in the beginning pages of this thread.

 
AT 4:15 when he said she called him twice, did he inform her his thing was about to wrap up? This to me is where it starts getting odd. Why didn't he say to her, lets go together? Why take two modes of transportation? Or at least follow one another.

So then at 6:45 she calls him, thinking he was done with this scoot thing and if he could grab the phone she forgot, but he had already left and couldn't do that. He was making a repair to his bike, 2 1/2 hours after he left? Where was he during this time? He headed out without directions 2 1/2 hours later still not at the place he wanted to be. His fiance thought he was at a scouting thing until 6:30 because he never mentioned it was about to wrap up
...hmmm anyone can guess what I am thinking could have happened or what he could have been up to? It may explain the over explaining he is doing and why she was frazzled and bought wine. Jsut a theory, not saying anything is fact.
Another thing strange? He would have passed her right? She was in Olympia and he was past that? He would have hit that same traffic? Maybe he cut cars since he was on the bike? Something just doesn't sound right.

So he heads off to step dads home, arrives there at 7:40 and she is not there ine hour and 10 minutes after he spoke to her on the phone and she found out he had left his scout thing early and was past her on the route to step dads. He waits until 9 and starts getting worried. Did he wait until 7:40 to get there so she would be there? I think it is only 10miles from the place he stopped to where he was heading.   

I need to go work out the rest with a pen and paper. His story falls apart I think because he was up to something which may have upset her. I think he is covering his tracks. Maybe he was cheating? Maybe he was doing something illegal, I don't know but something is stinky in the town hinky.

Why did she have 2 phones ?...I am confused

BG, just to toss a wrench into the confusion, lol...

First we hear from Robb that Shantina called him twice at 4:15p to say she was leaving.

However, LE says (in reports upthread) that Shantina left at about 5p.  (How they know this I do not know.  Perhaps from her phone records?)

Robb supposedly left at about 4:30p. 

If she did leave at 5p, that would have put Robb a half hour ahead of her on the road. 

His story keeps changing, so I dunno what to think anymore. 

mymonkey, I don't think she had two phones.  She left her cell phone at home by accident or on purpose.  And then she had to stop at places along the way to find a phone to use.  Must have been a bit hard to find a pay phone in this day and age.  Which could be why at one point she went to a stranger's house to use their phone. 

Superior Court Case Summary
 
 
Court: Cowlitz Superior Ct
Case Number: 01-3-00376-8

Sub    Docket Date    Docket Code  Docket Description Misc Info
-  06-22-2001 $FFR  Filing Fee Received 110.00 
1  06-22-2001 PTDSS  Petition For Dissolution & Joinder 
2  06-25-2001 MT  Motion To Appoint Gdn Ad Litem 
3  06-25-2001 ORAPGL  Order Appointing Guardian Ad Litem 
4  09-06-2001 RTGAL  Report Of Guardian Ad Litem 
5  10-12-2001 NTMTDK
ACTION  Note For Motion Docket
Dissolution 10-19-2001 
    ACTION  ***neither Parent Attended Class***   
-  10-18-2001 HCNTPA
 Continued: Plaintiff/pros Requested
10/19 Per Sternagel's Bl 10-26-2001 
    ACTION  Dissolution   
    ACTION  ** Neither Parent Attended Class **   
-  10-25-2001 HCNTPA
 Continued: Plaintiff/pros Requested
10/26/01 Per Sternagel Bl 11-02-2001DM 
    ACTION  Dissolution   
    ACTION  **neither Parent Attended Class**   
-  11-02-2001 RESHRG
 Uncontested Resolution Hearing
Ct Grants Dissolution Jjs/bl 
6  11-02-2001 FNFCL  Findings Of Fact&conclusions Of Law 
7  11-02-2001 DCD  Decree Of Dissolution 

I believe that this is okay to post being that this information has been in the news...I have a few more to post.  I also believe that I have found the boyfriend that had the protective order against him because of reported abuse toward Azriel.  I don't want to post it until I know for certain though.  Does anyone know what year this reported abuse took place?  If this is true...it will add an interesting twist to this story.


   






 

Superior Court Case Summary
 
 
Court: Cowlitz Superior Ct
Case Number: 05-2-01175-1

Sub    Docket Date    Docket Code  Docket Description Misc Info
1 07-01-2005 PTORPRT Pet Ord For Protection 
2  07-05-2005 TMORPRT
ACTION  Temp Ord For Protection
Hearing For Protection Order 07-18-2005DV 
3  07-18-2005 VR  Verification Re Svc Not Affected 
-  07-18-2005 MTHRG
 Motion Hearing
Ct Signs Reissuance Gbb/jc 08-01-2005DV 
    ACTION  2nd Hearing For Protection Ord   
4  07-18-2005 ORRTPO  Ord Reissuing Temp Protection Order 08-01-2005 
5  07-18-2005 ST  Statement Re Service Copies 
6  07-21-2005 RTS  Return Of Service 
7  07-22-2005 RTSNF  Return Of Service Not Found - Ccso 
-  08-01-2005 RESHRG
 Uncontested Resolution Hearing
Ct Signs Prot Order Gbb/bl 
8  08-01-2005 ORPRT  Ord For Protection 
9  08-02-2005 SHRTS  Sheriff's Return Of Service 


http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S08&casenumber=05-2-01175-1&searchtype=sName&token=6DD5A225E9D1D5D88B25E9B21FDD8D88&dt=57F8BAFD09F9CF4E7788C98CC75F4CDC

   

this is under Shantina's name...and the post after that is under Azriel's name...

You all have me sooooooo confused. I thought I had been following this case too.  I just don't see anything that strange about the boyfriend. He may be "strange" but he also has an alibi. Unless the stepfather is in on it too, or he hired someone to kill them. I don't believe either of those, so that leaves an accident, murder/suicide, or stranger abduction.
Do you know what that first case is about? I know what Gdn. Ad Litem is, but what is Petition for Dissolution and Joinder.
Azriel was 8 years old and even if he was born in 2001, this court case was June 2001 so he couldn't have been more than a couple of months old.

@ SuzieQ...not sure myself about the boyfriends guilt...I know that I have posted a lot of different theories that seem possible.  The more that I read about him...the more that I think his odd comments...are just his character.  Like mentioning the camera in the middle of his timeline statement...it seemed odd to add it but that is how he seems to talk consistently (this is just a quick example).  As far as the 2001 court record...I just posted that showing the evidence behind media reports...I hadn't seen it posted yet.  The other posting about the protective order was also to show the actual document behind the reports...but, I had also just asked if anyone knew what year the order was requested...so, showing that I had found it. Oh, and I believe that the first case was possibly a divorce?!

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m4d2-Shantina-Smiley-missing-without-a-trace-A-rough-start-in-life-Slideshow

Disappeared without a trace: Shantina Smiley had rough start in life (Slideshow)
April 2, 2010 - Shantina Smiley and her 8-year old son, Azriel Carver, went missing March 13. Her van was found the next morning stuck in the mud on a deserted beach down a private dirt road. Azriel's body was found twelve miles away on Fox Island, but Shantina remains missing.

Robb Simmons, her fiancé, says she had a rough start in life but that things had gotten much better.

"She's not the type of person who was handed everything," Simmons said. "She's had a rough life. She grew up in a not great household and then married a guy who did bad things to her."

"She thanked me for everything," Simmons said. "I live in a townhouse and to me that's mediocre. To her it was great and she was so appreciative."

Shantina got out of her abusive marriage and later became involved with a guy named Charlie who, too, was abusive. This time the abuse was not only directed at Shantina, it was also directed at her son, Azriel.

To top things off, Simmons said, Jay Carver, Azriel's father, had a crass attitude, never visited his son, and wouldn't help with child support. Carver insisted on a paternity test when Shantina asked for financial support for their son, he said.

In June 2005, when Azriel was only three years old, he suffered "serious physical abuse" at the hands of Shantina's ex-boyfriend who was arrested by the Cowlitz County Sheriff's Department. Due to lack of evidence, he was released and never brought to justice for his horrible acts against Azriel.

(Examiner.com contacted CPS for more details into abuse allegations against Azriel. Click here for more details.)

About a week following the ex-boyfriend's release Simmons said Shantina's mother committed suicide. Whether the two have anything to do with one another is unclear.

"At that point she melted down," Simmons said, "and called her grandparents in Brennan to pick her up from Longview."

Growing up in an unhealthy and unhappy household, coping with the divorce of her parents, marrying and divorcing an abusive husband, coping with an abusive ex-boyfriend who abused her son, and then dealing with the death of her mother by suicide, took her over the edge and she hit bottom.

She, like millions of others around the world, turned to alcohol for comfort.

When things got out of hand and she passed out one day, unable to care for Azriel, she voluntarily turned him over to her grandparents for a couple months while she underwent treatment.

Until the week before she went missing, she had stopped drinking and had not relapsed.

Shantina and Simmons met and fell in love. Simmons asked her to marry him the week before she went missing and they were planning their future together. Simmons said, "I'm still hoping and praying she'll come home."

Detectives say anyone with information on Smiley and her son can call Thurston County Crime Stoppers at 360-493-2222, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office at 360-786-5500 or 9-1-1.

Comments
CowlitzReader says:
According to the Cowlitz County Coroner's Office, Tammy Brown's death was ruled accidental polypharmaceutical overdose. There wasn't enough evidence to support a finding of suicide. Also, she died in November 2005, while the assault case against the ex-boyfriend was not dismissed until Oct. 16, 2006.
April 4, 3:54 PM

Clio says:
It doesn't take a lot of research online to know that Robb's claim that he asked her to marry him a week before she disappeared is a lie.
April 2, 9:24 AM

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/

I don't believe that I have seen this link posted...this is an album put together of the case...and pictures.

(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.**/tdn.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/d/8d/a97/d8da970c-3169-11df-ad83-001cc4c03286.image.jpg?_dc=1268791654)

http://www.tdn.com/image_d8da970c-3169-11df-ad83-001cc4c03286.html

I don't think he did anything to her, but I am thinking maybe something he did caused this her to behave in such an odd manner.

Who is this clio person who commented on Robb asking her to marry him was a lie?

I'm not sure who that is.  Yes, something was going on with her that evening...I still believe that she intended on something in Olympia...meeting someone or something...that was just odd...her bf may have suspected something...and they were arguing...which made her act bizarre along with whatever else was going on...maybe that is why it is hard to follow Robb...he may not want to come out with the entire truth...if they were fighting then the media would grab that and run...who knows.  She really had shady characters in her past...so who knows what was really going on...I finally found the name of the guy that was accused of abuse toward Azriel...I have the record, myspace page,and facebook page...don't believe that he is related to this...but, he is a lot different than Robb...I just don't know if that info can be posted...?

strike 3

I say no strikes.

Stupid mistakes, mixed up with emotion and add in alcohol. IMO.

BTW, Azriel was born 11/28/2001

The order of protection was 2005 against the ex-boyfriend in Castle Rock.
http://www.tdn.com/news/local/article_e5c2c4d0-32bd-11df-88c5-001cc4c002e0.html

The court records include a 2005 case in which Cowlitz County sheriff's deputies arrested a man on suspicion of assaulting Azriel when Smiley lived with her mother and stepfather in Castle Rock.

According to court documents, the man — now 31, who also lived in Castle Rock at the time — was left alone with Azriel on June 27, 2005. While under the man's care, Azriel suffered a broken wrist and multiple bruises on his face and body. The man claimed Azriel fell down, but medical experts determined the injuries were not accidental, according to a sheriff's report.

"My son stayed in the hospital for 2 1/2 days," Smiley wrote on her request for a protection order. "I don't want him to be around my child period."

The order was granted for one year.

The man was charged with second-degree assault of a child. The case was dismissed without prejudice Oct. 17, 2006. ("Without prejudice" means the prosecutor reserves the option of reopening the case.)


And... where do people get that a mans shoe washed up? It belonged to Shantina. You can see it in the surveillance vids.

The 2001 record that I posted was under Shantina but not clear what that is.  Yes, the 2005 record shows the order of protection.  The shoe...I think that some just haven't seen the information showing that the shoe is Shantina's...I almost posted that pic too...but, didn't bc I thought it had been cleared up...cannot find it right this second.  How sad that justice wasn't served.

Thanks Amanda, I agree, stupid mistakes. And thanks for all the work you do on your photobucket site.

YW, and thanks for the thanks :)

Two black leather left shoes were found on the beach, along with some other things.  One shoe size 9 is Shantina's, the other is size 13, is bigger and looks like a man's shoe.  Not a shoe that would fit Az.  He was wearing sneakers.

Wykes you have nanners please. I want to run some stuff by you.

Wyks, I duuno, but...

I thought the smaller size 13 shoe was Azriels and the larger size 9 shoe was Shantinas.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000694-504083.html
The items found on the beach included two mismatched leather shoes, a half-full and corked wine bottle, an inhaler and an orange ball, Thurston County sheriff's Lt. Chris Mealy said.
One of the shoes could be a child's shoe, according to Mealy, adding that Smiley purchased a bottle of wine during her travels around Olympia on Saturday night. Sheriff's Sgt. Cheryl Stines told The Olympian that Azriel uses an inhaler.

The fiance of the missing Washington mother Shantina Smiley, who vanished
five days ago with her young son, has told police that articles that
have washed ashore at a pond belong to them.
The search for Smiley and 8-year-old Azriel Carver took an
ominous turn when an area resident found debris along the edge of the
pond where Smiley's partially submerged van was discovered on Sunday.
The find included mismatched leather shoes, an inhaler, an orange ball
and a half empty bottle of wine with the cork in it.
Thurston County Sheriff's Lt. Chris Mealy said that Robb
Simmons, Smiley's fiance, told investigators that Smiley's son had asthma and
used an inhaler. Simmons also identified the smaller of the two shoes
and the orange ball as belonging to Azriel, Mealy said.

^I don't have the source for this one but I'm thinking it was the Olympian or KOMO news.

So the shoe sizes are 13 and 9? I was thinking the small shoe was a child's 13 and the larger shoe was a womans size 9. Does that compare to the items on the table? Azriel was 8, a 13 is sort of small for an 8 year old boy. The average shoe size is what maybe a 2-4 or so. My step daughter is about that age and she wears a 13, she has tiny feet for her age. hmmm maybe one of the shoes could have been Robbs? Was she taking the overnight bag for both of them? He was riding a motorcycle. Maybe it had a pair of shoes for him in it? 

Bumping for pic of items found.

Meant to post the pic...

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/washashore.jpg)

Oops sorry bumped the wrong pic.

I did get a confirmation tonight. There is no mans shoe.

The size 9 is a womans.
The size 13 is a boys.

has anyone viewed Shantina's myYearbook page and seen the comments on it?  They are ALL (11) from her area...well, Puyallup, Buena, Davenport, and Ashford.  I have not found an exact date yet...only month and date, no year.  But the 11 accounts are open still so it seems that this would have been recent at least the last year or so...This would reinforce my first theory that she was in Olympia for a reason...this could explain Robb's behavior as well...maybe he was suspicious (she had made a trip to Castle Rock the week before, right?  Is that the ONLY place she went?) and headed to Castle Rock to see if she REALLY was going there.  This could explain a nap and a breakfast (brunch)...if he thinks that she is out meeting someone...then he wouldn't be SO concerned that she is REALLY missing...I am not trying to knock her character...by any means...just trying to figure this out.  She did meet Robb online...I wonder what site?  She also became pregnant with Azriel while married to Jerry...though they very well could have been separated...but I do believe that Jay and Shantina met in Hawaii...which seems to be a place where Jerry's family are listed at...so I don't really know that stuff, yet.

Yea you know that is what I thought, so I looked and  funny I still had a size 1 dress shoe of my sons and also a bottle of water. I compaird the size and it looks about the same. Azriel had tiny little feet, god bless him. I think he was so cute. He had a sweet little round face.

(Bolded by me)

Azriel was a very cute boy, I agree.   ::MonkeyAngel:: 

Here are some of my questions.

1. why didn't Robb tell her at 4:15 when he spoke to her that he was leaving soon?
2. Where was Robb between 4:30 and 6:45?
3. Why did she get lost when she was pretty close to the freeway?
4. Why didn't she call Robb again while she was lost?
5. Robb starts looking for her at 9, about that same time she arrives at the restaurant and leaves without food, are these two events connected?
6. Why did she buy the wine? Was she upset? What was she upset about?
7. At 10:10 she called the grandfather house and says she is ok, lost and had been in an accident, but ok. Robb stopped looking for her at this time and went back to the step dad's house.
8. At midnight they decide to drive to Olympia and check things out. They would have arrived there by 1. At this same time the woman in the house hears a knock but doesn't go see who it is. Was this Robb? Was this Shantina? Was this Azriel?
9. Robb says they searched for a while, couldn't find anything, stopped at a couple of rest stops and headed back to the house for some sleep. Where in Olympia did he go? Just drove around, up and down streets?
10. The next morning he leaves at the crack of dawn to drive 2.5 hours one way to get a phone charger and to charge his phone. Why didn't he drive back to see if she had gone back to the house? How does he know she didnt' go back to her house? Why didn't he just go buy a phone charger. They do sell them.
11. After charging the phone he heads back to Castle Rock, another 2.5 hours. Why didn't he go to Olympia? This was the last known place she was at? There were already people in Castle Rock that could have updated him. Or why didn't he stay at home, maybe she would come back after being lost all night. Why did he go back and continue to wait with her family?
12. Drives Castlerock, gets the call they found the van, drives back to Olympia. He states he was in constant contact with the police, why did they wait so long to tell him. The call about the van came into LE in the early morning hours.

So these are some of my questions and why I feel something other then what we are being told happened that night. Whether she was upset with him or he was suspicious of her, I don't know. I do know the story does not make sense when you really look at it. This was not a series of stupid mistakes, in my opinion. I think Robb knows what happened that night or has a good idea of what happened and he is not telling the whole truth. Is he protecting his self? Her? I don't know. But something is just not right and I think considering a little boy was found dead, it is fair to look at everything. 
 

#10 should have read....

Why did he say he went back to his house to get the phone charger? Why was it not for the intention to see if she had turned around and gone home but something happened to her? Did he know she was not going to be there? Why didn't he buy a new phone charger rather then driving a 5 hour round trip?

Thanks for the heads up, TG, I rarely go in there. lol

Not sure where I read it, but that the size 9 shoe was identified as Shantina's.  Will check around to see where I read that at and get back to ya, ok?  Course there's always the possibility that I'm having another senior moment.   ::MonkeyDevil::

No, haven't seen her yearbook page yet, labubske.  Do you happen to have the link to it? 

http://www.myyearbook.com/?mysession=cmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uX3Byb2ZpbGUmdXNlcmlkPTIwODkyMTc0

Great questions Tracygirl...especially pointing out the times of Robb heading to look for her and her bizarre behavior at Martin's...as well as the other possible time connections...also, question of where did he actually go when he went to Olympia...well, I may as well just re-list them because they are all great questions to look at...lol.

Shantina Smiley: Update from police; no foul play suspected, Shantina still missing
April 5, 8:55 AMSeattle Headlines ExaminerIsabelle Zehnder

April 5, 2010 - Police believe Shantina Smiley, who, along with her 8-year old son, Azriel Carver, went missing Mar. 13, is most likely in the waters of the Puget Sound, but say they cannot rule out the possibility she could be alive. Her son's body was found five days after they disappeared.

In a phone interview with Chief Criminal Deputy Jim Chamberlain Friday, he told Examiner.com that there are no new leads in the case but that they have continued searching the shorelines for any sign of Shantina. "We just had boats out in the water again searching for any clues," he said.

Chamberlain told Examiner.com that shortly after Shantina and Azriel went missing police received a report from a homeowner on Island View Drive about a mile away from where the van was found. Homeowners told police the night Shantina went missing they heard a pounding on the side of their house. They did not see or hear anyone outside and set their home security alarm.

Chamberlain said when they learned about the pounding noise detectives went to Shantina's home to obtain fresh scent items, as the items they had were sniffed by search dogs numerous times.

The dogs did not hit on any area surrounding the home where the noise had been heard, or the home itself. There was no evidence of footprints, Chamberlain said.

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

He found it peculiar, he said, that the items would all be found at the same location on the beach. Chamberlain said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea as originally believed because of the difference in weight and size of the items. He believes it is more likely Shantina and Azriel walked down the beach and that they had the items with them.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said. "Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."

"There is no evidence of foul play in this case," Chamberlain said. "Azriel's death still appears to have been accidental and there is no indication Shantina harmed her son or had any intent to harm her son."

There has been some question as to how Robb Simmons, Shantina's fiancé, knew what Shantina was wearing when he created a missing person's flier not long after she went missing. According to Simmons, he, like police, obtained the information from store video.

Shantina was traveling from her Silverdale, Wash. home to Castle Rock. About half way to Castle Rock She stopped in Olympia where she made a series of stops and appeared to be lost.

She was given directions back to the freeway and apparently turned the wrong way and ended up at the end of a private dirt road (Zangle Road NE) and onto the beach where her van got stuck and was found the following day partially submerged in the water.

Press release issued by police on March 15, 2010:

Yesterday at approx. 1100 hrs. a gold dodge mini-van was discovered abandoned on a beach in northeast Thurston County. The Van was last seen in the possession of a 29 yr. old Silverdale woman who was traveling to Castle Rock. The woman is identified as Shantina M. SMILEY, age 29. She was accompanied by her 8 year old son, Azriel J. Carver. They have not been seen since 2200 hrs on Saturday evening near 46th Ave. N.E. and Boston Harbor Rd N.E.

A search and missing person investigation was initiated after the van was found. The investigation indicates that Shantina and her son left Silverdale at approx 1700 hrs. on Saturday to visit a relative in Castle Rock. She can be traced to a West Olympia store at 19:50 hrs, a Martin Way restaurant at 2108 hrs., a Boston Harbor grocery at 21:50 hrs and finally a private residence in the 1400 block of 46th Ave. N.E. off Boston Harbor Rd. at approx 2200 hrs Saturday evening. Shantina was accompanied by only
her son according to the witnesses and various store videos that we have been able to access.

Shantina did ask for directions back to the freeway at the home on 46th Ave. However it appears she turned the wrong way and ended up at the end of Zangle Rd. N.E. where she drove her van down a private road onto the beach where the vehicle got stuck. Shantina and her son have not been seen since. No evidence of foul play was observed in the van.

A search of the bay by boat as well as a door to door canvas of the area was done on Sunday but no new leads have been discovered as to their whereabouts. Detectives and search and rescue personnel will be returning to the area today to investigate further. The Sheriff’s Office is requesting the public’s help with any information on Shantina and her son. Please contact the Sheriff’s Office at 360-786-5530 or 5500 with any information. Photos of Santina, her son, and her Van are attached to this release.

Comments welcome below.
Comments
smkovalinsky says:
Addendum: I have left you more detailed remarks on the Websleuths Forum. SMK
April 6, 7:41 AM

smkovalinsky says:
Thank you for this piece, and for your fine journalism. This interview with Chamberlain now basically negates the sleeping in the van/surprised by high tide theory. It casts more suspicion on the child's drowning, and on Shantina's vanishing. Keep up the fine work!
April 6, 7:18 AM

Clio says:
"There has been some question as to how Robb Simmons, Shantina's fiancé, knew what Shantina was wearing when he created a missing person's flier not long after she went missing. According to Simmons, he, like police, obtained the information from store video."

IF he obtained this information from the video, then I'd like to know why he wasn't able to describe Azriel's clothing.
April 5, 6:46 PM

Don't recall seeing this posted...but, I do recall the steep steps being mentioned.  How did Robb know and WHY couldn't he describe Azriel's?  Maybe there is a good explanation...has anyone seen one?

quote:
"Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."

end


I have seen no evidence of crashing waves or undertow in this area "inland water way"  and that is supported by the growth along the water edge and the sand bar is wide and compacted " that is why she was able to drive onto it " meaning that even high tides may leave a person in knee deep water at best on fairly hard surface .. There is a dropoff to deeper water but it is a ways out and a person would have to walk there to find it.
 There is even a set of logs put down as a water line border near the tree line if you look close and that never washes out .. The steepness of the incline along the hillside is not a cliff drop off, like I have along the coast of my home, it is steep but climbable to safety..
The banging on the wall is curious indeed if even true.
 But that is just my opinion as I have never been to the location and I am making that judgment by looking at goggle images and elevations.
The items were put there on purpose.
This whole thing is some form of set up to look like an accident.
 jmho.

I know...I keep going back and forth with this case...sometimes I think this...sometimes I think that...just a VERY bizarre case.

Snipped
"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

He found it peculiar, he said, that the items would all be found at the same location on the beach. Chamberlain said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea as originally believed because of the difference in weight and size of the items. He believes it is more likely Shantina and Azriel walked down the beach and that they had the items with them.
"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said. "Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."


So they found a shoe that belonged to each of them, a small orange ball and a baseball belonging to Azriel, his inhaler, bottles of water, a bottle of wine...hmmm  Lets look at what they would have been carrying while walking late at night in sand. If you have ever taken a walk with a tired child you will know it is not easy to get them to hold themselves up much less items. An inhaler, 2 water bottles, an orange ball, a baseball, a bottle of wine. So lets assume Azriel is like my son and will carry things in his pockets, this makes sense since his small hands couldn't possibly carry all of that and it being late would probably not want to carry it.  He could have had the balls and his inhaler in this pocket, and carrying the bottle of water. She would be carrying a bottle of wine and one or two water bottles. so they are walking along the beach and here comes the tide. Some how they each lose a shoe, the orange ball and the baseball and the inhaler all come out of Azriels pockets, each lose what seems to be left shoes as they are swept out to sea. Funny that they are all identifying items of these two people, that was lucky. The wine we saw her buy, their left shoes, Azriels baseball and little orange ball, his inhaler..all within an area of the beach close to where the van was found, close to where the banging happened.. It really does lead you to believe her and Azriel were either in danger or again trying to find their way out. But if her van was stuck in the water and she couldn't get it out and she somehow got to this house to pound on the house, first why didn't she knock on the door or a window, but why didn't she go to the next place or stay on the land? Instead she returns to the steep stair case back down to the beach while walking with her 8 year old son in the darkness of night? Where was she going to go? Back to the van that was stuck? Of if someone was chasing them and they were running for their lives, why were they still carrying all of this stuff? I would think she would drop the wine and the water bottles. Was the wine and water that important that she needed to run holding them?
Lets say she left the van and walked along the beach, saw this staircase, took it and found the house that heard the banging...IF she was looking for a home to ask for help, why didn't she just leave the van and walked back the way she drove in? She would have seen houses there. Another mistake? 
Another scenario? Lets say she took her son on a walk at midnight or close to that, stopped at this spot, each took off their shoes, she drank her wine, he slept on the cold, wet sand, the tide rolls in and Azriel is swept away to sea while his mother watches. She runs up the staircase bangs on the wall because we all know that is how you get a home owners attention? So she bangs on this wall hoping someone would come to her aide, they don't come out fast enough so she runs down the staircase, slips and falls in to the water and she too is swept away to sea. Funny though her and Azriel are swept to sea but their identifying items are not. They are together in one area. How do two people get swept out to sea but their items stay together?

I am sorry but this all sounds like a bad episode of CSI.

I wish someone with knowledge of currents in that area were to post a graph of how the currents move, their speed, and such...

To me, Azriel's body was found too far from the van.

That morning there were searchers looking in the water, on the coast, and on the air. Why wasn't his body spotted?

Not only that it's 12 nautical miles, but what bothers me is that the tide doesn't wash in and out in waves and in a rush, it is a slow process that takes hours. So, according to the theory that he went in the water at Boston Harbor, his body zigzagged through many land masses and islettes to land on Fox Island in a matter of a few days and nobody saw him.

I know it's a vast area. But, it's a well populated area and there were many eyes out there the day the two went missing.

 ::MonkeyEek::

My question  where are the other two shoes? Did I miss something....so many cases to keep up with...and to me its odd that both shoes found were the left foot show, what if these things were left on purpose to make it look like an accident..to many questions!!

I know, it is strange that his body seemingly floated for miles yet no one saw him. Wouldnt a body float? Does it always float? I had thought maybe it was like Lacie Petterson and her husband tied her down. Her body broke free from the restraint and floated to shore. Would this have been possible? Just throwing that out there. The place he was found was not in the open waters, it was an enlet, that just sticks with me.

I really feel there was some kind of foul play, I don't know who and I am not pointing fingers, but the store and the circumstances surrounding this story doesn't hold water in my opinion. I am surprised LE is not looking into this further or maybe they are and I am not aware.

This may help some...I found it when I was looking around...but, I really don't understand it much.


             

     Tides      Washington   Olympia, Budd Inlet

Station Statistics
Latitude:    47°3'36.0"N
Longitude:    122°54'12.0"W
Mean Level (ft):    8.31
Mean Range (ft):    10.48
Spring Range (ft):    14.56
Daily Chart
Current Weather
Olympia, WA (98506)
Updated on 4/12/10 3:54 PM PDT
Weather condition Mostly Cloudy
57°F Feels like: 57°F
UV Index:   2 Low
Wind:   0° calm mph
Humidity:   53%
Pressure:   29.75 in (steady)
Dew Point:   40°F
Visibility:   10.0 mi
Sunrise: 6:29 AM Sunset: 7:56 PM
Weather Moon Trend: Waning Crescent


2010-03-01    Monday    16.3 ft    High    06:01    3.1 ft    Low    12:19    14.7 ft    High    17:57                   
2010-03-02    Tuesday    0.9 ft    Low    00:21    16.4 ft    High    06:32    1.7 ft    Low    13:03    14.4 ft    High    18:55          
2010-03-03    Wednesday    2.7 ft    Low    01:05    16.3 ft    High    07:05    0.5 ft    Low    13:47    14.1 ft    High    19:54          
2010-03-04    Thursday    4.6 ft    Low    01:51    15.9 ft    High    07:41    0.0 ft    Low    14:33    13.5 ft    High    20:57          
2010-03-05    Friday    6.6 ft    Low    02:40    15.1 ft    High    08:18    0.0 ft    Low    15:22    13.0 ft    High    22:07          
2010-03-06    Saturday    8.3 ft    Low    03:35    14.2 ft    High    09:00    0.3 ft    Low    16:15    12.8 ft    High    23:32          
2010-03-07    Sunday    9.5 ft    Low    04:48    13.2 ft    High    09:50    0.9 ft    Low    17:14                   
2010-03-08    Monday    12.8 ft    High    01:15    10.1 ft    Low    06:39    12.1 ft    High    10:53    1.4 ft    Low    18:20          
2010-03-09    Tuesday    13.2 ft    High    02:37    9.5 ft    Low    08:26    11.5 ft    High    12:10    1.5 ft    Low    19:29          
2010-03-10    Wednesday    13.5 ft    High    03:31    8.6 ft    Low    09:28    11.4 ft    High    13:28    1.5 ft    Low    20:31          
2010-03-11    Thursday    13.8 ft    High    04:09    7.7 ft    Low    10:09    11.6 ft    High    14:34    1.5 ft    Low    21:21          
2010-03-12    Friday    13.9 ft    High    04:36    6.8 ft    Low    10:40    11.9 ft    High    15:28    1.7 ft    Low    22:03          
2010-03-13    Saturday    14.1 ft    High    04:54    5.9 ft    Low    11:05    12.3 ft    High    16:13    2.1 ft    Low    22:39          
2010-03-14    Sunday    14.2 ft    High    06:10    4.9 ft    Low    12:27    12.6 ft    High    17:54                   
2010-03-15    Monday    2.6 ft    Low    00:12    14.3 ft    High    06:26    3.9 ft    Low    12:50    12.9 ft    High    18:34          
2010-03-16    Tuesday    3.4 ft    Low    00:45    14.4 ft    High    06:46    2.7 ft    Low    13:17    13.2 ft    High    19:14          
2010-03-17    Wednesday    4.3 ft    Low    01:18    14.6 ft    High    07:09    1.7 ft    Low    13:47    13.4 ft    High    19:56          
2010-03-18    Thursday    5.4 ft    Low    01:53    14.4 ft    High    07:34    0.8 ft    Low    14:20    13.5 ft    High    20:40          
2010-03-19    Friday    6.6 ft    Low    02:30    14.3 ft    High    08:01    0.0 ft    Low    14:58    13.4 ft    High    21:29          
2010-03-20    Saturday    7.7 ft    Low    03:10    14.1 ft    High    08:31    -0.4 ft    Low    15:41    13.2 ft    High    22:24          
2010-03-21    Sunday    8.8 ft    Low    03:54    13.7 ft    High    09:04    -0.5 ft    Low    16:29    12.9 ft    High    23:30          
2010-03-22    Monday    9.7 ft    Low    04:50    13.2 ft    High    09:46    -0.4 ft    Low    17:25                   
2010-03-23    Tuesday    12.8 ft    High    00:50    10.3 ft    Low    06:07    12.5 ft    High    10:46    -0.1 ft    Low    18:29          
2010-03-24    Wednesday    13.0 ft    High    02:16    10.1 ft    Low    07:46    12.1 ft    High    12:09    -0.1 ft    Low    19:38          
2010-03-25    Thursday    13.5 ft    High    03:20    8.9 ft    Low    09:09    12.0 ft    High    13:37    0.0 ft    Low    20:45          
2010-03-26    Friday    14.1 ft    High    04:03    7.4 ft    Low    10:05    12.4 ft    High    14:57    0.1 ft    Low    21:46          
2010-03-27    Saturday    14.7 ft    High    04:37    5.4 ft    Low    10:50    13.0 ft    High    16:07    0.6 ft    Low    22:40          
2010-03-28    Sunday    15.1 ft    High    05:08    3.4 ft    Low    11:31    13.8 ft    High    17:10    1.5 ft    Low    23:30          
2010-03-29    Monday    15.5 ft    High    05:38    1.4 ft    Low    12:12    14.3 ft    High    18:09                   
2010-03-30    Tuesday    2.8 ft    Low    00:17    15.6 ft    High    06:10    -0.1 ft    Low    12:52    14.7 ft    High    19:05          
2010-03-31    Wednesday    4.3 ft    Low    01:04    15.6 ft    High    06:42    -1.3 ft    Low    13:33    14.8 ft    High    20:00          

Monthly tide predictions table in Olympia, Budd Inlet, Washington.
It is a lot easier to read on the website http://www.ezfshn.com/Tides/USA/Washington/Olympia,%20Budd%20Inlet/March/

2010-03-13 Saturday 14.1 ft High 04:54 5.9 ft Low 11:05 12.3 ft High 16:13 2.1 ft Low 22:39

I think this is saying that high tide came in at 16:13 what is that 4:13 in the afternoon then low tide came in at 22:39 which is 10:39? So would the tide have been low when she is expected of being there? Not sure if I am reading that correctly. 

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaatidepredictions/serveimage?filename=/tmp/etides/images/9446807/13042010/39/9446807_2010-03-19.gif

here is a graph...cannot get it to post so here is the link.

Cant get the link to work. Can you check and repost?

(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/13_sm.png)(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/14_sm.png)
(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/15_sm.png)(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/16_sm.png)
(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/17_sm.png)(http://www.protides.com/graph/1909/2010/03/18_sm.png)

Here is a picture/calendar of the tide information from March 13-18 or go to http://www.protides.com/washington/1909/2010/03/ to see the full map

So it was low tide that night? The tide didn't rise until the next morning at 6?

It went to the graph...did you see a graph or it didn't work at all?  Here is the link to the home page.

Ok so if you look at it it was slowly building to high tide, I get it. I am used to southern california beaches, it rushes in, this seems like it comes in slowly and leaves slowly.

Someone asked a question how did they each loose one shoe? Well they could have lost both shoes and only one came back to shore?

Oops...left off link...sorry.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/  did it again...sorry...long day!

Thanks labubske!   ::MonkeyKiss::

Yep, that's right. 

First of all, I'm not convinced that other shoe belonged to Az.  Robb says it was his, but then, I'm not believing a lot of Robb has said.  Her family isn't confirming what Robb says, they just aren't talking much at all.  Which is weird. 

*If* that other shoe belonged to Az, am thinking he wasn't wearing them earlier that night, in the videos we see he has sneakers on, like most boys his age.  I've raised three boys, the only time I could get them in dress leather shoes like the one in the pic was for church on Sundays, prom night, weddings and funerals.  That's it.  Certainly NOT something they'd change into from sneakers to go for a jaunt down a beach.  Just saying.........

Locals in that area have posted online that the beach is an 'oyster bed', and is like quicksand.  Could be they just stepped right out of them, with the shoe staying in the sand.  That might explain how the shoes got off their feet, if indeed that happened.  That it was two left shoes could have been same scenario, with them heading in the direction with their left feet in the deeper part of the water than the right.   Or.......... it could be that someone placed the shoes there to give that impression. 

Well.. I should clarify... The tide had been rising earlier than 6a.  It was high tide at about 6a. 

One comment I have read consistantly, how did she find that road leading to the beach at night? Well maybe she didn't find it at night? Who is to say she or whoever didn't put the van there when the sun was coming up? The van was found at 6:00AM. She was seen driving the van at 10, then 8 hours later it is found.   

I would assume if they walked out of their shoes they would try to get them, or at least I can see me doing that. I don't know if you are walking along and your shoe comes off, you just go about your business and leave it there. Even if it sunk under the sand, i would guess you would dig it out, right? And if it did sink, well how did it get unsunk? (is that a word?)

The boy is seen wearing different shoes so this wouldn't fit any way. That is another reason I feel these items were planted to make it look like these two simply drifted out to sea. IF there is a crime scene, I don't think this would be the spot.

Agree...from what information that has been put out there...why aren't the Williams being looked at more?  Not, saying they are involved...but, that is the LAST reported place the two were seen.  Why did she go to that specific house and just a mile from the store that she just received directions from...I know that if my vehicle were able to make it...I would have turned around and went back to the store...to clarify directions...I would NOT have stopped at a strangers house...I would really like to see where this house is located...is it closer to the road?  Is it easier to assess...I know that it was reported that the Christian symbol is why she stopped...but, that is coming from them (no reason not to believe them...just pointing it out).  Did they call the police and tell them that she stopped there?  When?  Or did police contact them based on grandparents reports?  They had to admit to her stopping because she is linked to being there...I just find it odd that she stopped there when the store is so close...or even if the store that I am thinking of is the closed store...there are other stores...I still believe that she was out that way for a reason...but why?  Did she meet them or one of them at the store and follow them to the house?  The initial media reports kept reporting them as an elderly couple which may have taken focus off of them unintentionally...but there is a 19 or 20 year old male in the home...and there is an older son as well...not sure if he lives there...who all was there?  Did she buy the wine to take to the house?  Maybe she was invited to a party there? 

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?style=b&where1=1435%2046th%20Ave%20NE,%20Olympia,%20WA

This is a great aerial view of where the Williams home is at (though it does not show a house)...you can also move around and see Shantina's route...this is the best one that I have seen.

The wine is " Gallo, brand " cheap screw on cap table wine  .. It is not high end.

The tide comes in slow and builds up slow to its high level .. because of the inland location of this area.

who was the friend she stopped to see ?

the stopping at the closed harbor store and looking in the windows is perplexing to me.
If you are in the harbor area you are not lost.. ??

Then again, most of the story is perplexing.

I am positive her and the boy were attacked and he died because of it.. Exactly how and who is the perplexing part.

Can you do me a favor. Can you post the streets she was on that night? Where did she get off the freeway, the stores she visited? Do you have that handy?

That is a good idea an area map with all points they was noted at..  from beginning to finish. 

It is a big job to lay this all out I am sure anyone who can help thank you in advance.

I do...but I have to get to school right now...but, as soon as I get in tonight...I will get it up there...if I can find at least the list...then I will post it before I go.

Thanks the list would be great

Gull Harbor Mercantile 9:54pm
Street: 4932 Boston Harbor Road Northeast
Olympia, wa 98506-1852

Martin Way Diner 9:08pm
2423 4th Avenue East
Olympia, WA 98506-4820

Dennis Williams home 10:00pm
1435 46th Ave NE
Olympia, WA 98506

Handy Pantry 7:48pm


http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Nationwide-appeal-for-help-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=0

that is all I am able to finish right now...sorry...gotta go.  I will help when I get home tonight. :)

Thanks! Some where in this thread is the address and name of the first diner she was at. I think Wykes posted it. It was right by the freeway. Anyone know where that is? I can't seem to find it. Can you bump it if you find it please?

I dont recall reading this. It says Jerry Smiley said she emailed him the week prior saying she wanted to stop by?

Quote:
She was obviously scared.

end

Why was she scared ?

We also need a cast of characters...

Unbelieveable how many people touched this girls life in a very short period of time..

Too have her just go poof is... well it is beyond belief.

Here is the line up :


Robb Simmons (currant boyfriend) He calls himself fiance..   Mr. Alibi   ::MonkeyWink::



Jerry Smiley (her ex-husband).. She had emailed him the week before and sad she wanted to stop by.

I would believe This is the Friend..


So she was scared... of which one ?
A possible jealous boyfriend who calls himself fiance ?? 
A EX.. Did he owe her any money ?? She was too long at his home ? ignited the boyfriend ?
 

Dennis Williams : She Stops at house to ask for directions again. ?? more then once ?
Quote:
She was obviously scared.

Neither one of these 2 is the actual blood father to this boy correct ?

she stopped at the closed harbor store to look at the clock !!
she was scared of the b/f
jmho

I input the addresses into google maps and did a route from point A to point B etc...I don't know how to post it though.

So she leaves the handy pantry at 740 which is on the other side of the bay from where she spends most of that evening. She heads back over the bay probably using 4th avenue. I would assume the directions were for her to turn right on East bay dr NE toward the freeway, but this street also has another name plum street so this could have confused her.

Her next known stop was the martin way diner at 9:08. If she had driven straight through this would have taken about 5 or so min. Instead it takes over an 1 1/4 hours. From the Martin way diner she could have easily taken pacific ave to the freeway but from looking at a map she probably turned left rather then right and must have found the original street E Bay Drive but rather then turning left to head for the freeway she turns right and heads way north.

The next time she is seen at the gulf harbor merchantile about 45 or so min later. This should have taken her about 8 min. Funny thing across the stree from this store is Boston Harbor Photography http://bostonharborphoto.com/  Doesn't her and Robb work in that field? Maybe she stopped there? Thought it a coincidence so I mention it. Not sure who owns this business but from the map it looks like a house as well as a business on Boston harbor Road

So her next stop is at the home of Dennis William. From E. Bay Drive she would have had to turn left  on 46th street. She only went a 1/2 mile south when she turned. This seems like it took her only a few minutes. I would assume they would tell her she would have to turn left and go back down boston harbor road which turns into e. bay dr.

This was the last time she was heard from or seen. She had the wine at this point. It was after 10.

The house with the knocking is more north so if she went that direction she would have had to go back to e bay/boston harbor, pass the store she stopped at prior and continued to that area. This would have taken her about 9 min to travel the 4.9 miles. This knock and whether it was her or not was at 1 AM. Her van was found in this area the next morning.

http://www.manta.com/c/mm7ghfr/boston-harbor-photography

7.50p
Handy Pantry (2010 Division Street NW)
About 69 miles from Silverdale, 1 hour 22 mins


9.00p
Martin Way Diner (2423 4th Avenue E)
About 4 miles from Handy Pantry


9.55p
Mercantile (4932 Boston Harbor Rd NE)
About 5 miles from Martin Way Diner


10.00p
The Williams house (46th Ave NE)
About 1 mile from the Mercantile


10.34p
Mercantile (4932 Boston Harbor Rd NE)


beach at end of Zangle St

Wykes so the handy pantry is where she eat and called Robb from? If you put all of these points on a map you can see she was always going in the wrong direction and one point to another takes longer then it should so I wonder if she stopped anywhere else but it is not reported.

http://www.q13fox.com/media/mp3file/2010-03/52768424.mp3

don't know when or if the 9-1-1 call was posted earlier...but here it is again if so.  Listen to him carefully...he said "I'm surprised they didn't come up and ask for help..." and something about it looks like they were trying to harvest from the neighbors pins (or something) can anyone hear it correctly?  He also said that there had been a full tide cycle...

Also, he states that he is almost certain that they walked out...he gave no indication of the thought that anyone may have been in danger...as far as a drowning...and he had neighbors there with him...seemed to me to be a group like thought.  A good point to is the neighbors all knew which neighbor to call...obviously the one closest to the van...so why didn't they go there for help...if that is who was knocking?  The keys on the dashboard seem to prove that they weren't swept away from the van while trying to get it unstuck...they had time to take the keys from the ignition and place them on the dashboard...so it seems.

No, she ordered the corn dog at the Martin Way Diner. 

From what Robb said, she supposedly called him at 6:45 and said she was going to stop and get Az something to eat. 

But the first stop that we actually have video of her isn't until 7:50p.  If she did stop at 6:45 and called Robb from some pay phone, no video of her has been in reported doing that. 

At 7:50p, when she did stop at the Handy Pantry, the video doesn't show her using a phone at all. 

In some forums I've read, posters have thought perhaps the clock had already been turned forward early that Saturday night, (it was the night for daylight savings).  That maybe it was actually 6:50p but reflected 7:50p due to the time change.  ??  I dunno about that.  I thought stores changed the clocks at closing or at 1:00 - 2:00 am??  But at any rate, she didn't make a phone call at Handy Pantry. 

And yet.............. sigh.... Robb said that she said she was at Handy Pantry.  There is only ONE in the entire state of Washington, and it's that one.  The one that showed her walking in the store at 7:50p, and not making any phone call. 

Sooooo.. is Robb lying about the 6:45 call?  Did she actually make that call but stopped somewhere else to do it?  Why then would he say she was calling from Handy Pantry if she wasn't?  Did she go there at 6:45p and make a call then come back at 7:50 to buy something??? 

We may never know the truth. 

Sure wish LE would release info re Robbs phone, to confirm or deny that he received the calls from her at the times he claims he did. 
     

TG...

It's true that it took Shantina longer to get everywhere than it ordinarily would take anyone to go.  In fact... from where she lived, getting TO olympia took longer than usual.  Google says it takes about an 1 hour 22 minutes.  (69 miles).  Some reports say that she left Silverdale at around 4:15 or 4:20.  Robb says she called him twice at 4:15 to let him know she was leaving.  But LE says that she left Silverdale at 5:00p.  ???????????  Either way, she should have been in olympia getting off the freeway at the earliest about 5:40, at the latest 6:22.  I can see the 6:45 timeline working for her, but we only have Robb's word for it that she called at that time. 

In the list that I made upthread, I forgot about her going to Safeway, I've added that below.  Dunno the address tho.


7.50p
Handy Pantry (2010 Division Street NW)
About 69 miles from Silverdale, 1 hour 22 mins


8.00p
Safeway


9.00p
Martin Way Diner (2423 4th Avenue E)
About 4 miles from Handy Pantry


9.55p
Mercantile (4932 Boston Harbor Rd NE)
About 5 miles from Martin Way Diner


10.00p
The Williams house (46th Ave NE)
About 1 mile from the Mercantile


10.34p
Mercantile (4932 Boston Harbor Rd NE)


beach at end of Zangle St

Yeah, the high tide was about 6am that morning, the neighbor who first saw the van, saw it early on, nearly submerged.  By the time this neighbor (closest to the van) saw it, it was partially submerged, so the tide had receded by then. 

The beach in that area are oyster beds, and it's a private beach.  The owners of these homes evidently work a certain area of beach, and don't like it when others trespass, cuz as they said to the media, the oysters get stolen etc.   So on this 911 call, the guy was kinda thinking that someone had come in after the oysters and got stuck, he sounded more mad at the idea of trespassers than anything.  They later told media they were very surprised at what this turned out to be, that never in their wildest dreams had they considered something like that. 

Out here where I live, the equivalent would be the farmer with his shotgun, loaded and aimed.  hehe.   ::piggy::
 

Well that's what no one can figure out, why they didn't go to the nearest house for help.  That's one reason I'm thinking she and Az were being chased, that they got out of the van and just ran.  The circling on the sand seems to be too many tire markings for just one van.  IMO. 

I could be watching too much CSI Miama too.   ::MonkeyHaHa::

I believe this is what has happened.. where does Jerry live ?

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=b&c=47.11106076554122,%20-122.89389366313887&z=19
Handy Pantry 7:50pm

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=h&c=47.046047101572064,%20-122.86748683520918&z=19
Martin's Way Diner 9pm

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=b&c=47.106540300430865,%20-122.88887202747682&z=19
Mercantile--9:55pm and 10:34pm

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=b&c=47.099428510183756,%20-122.88854438951022&z=15
Williams home 10pm

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=b&c=47.106540300430865,%20-122.88887202747682&z=19
Mercantile 10:34pm

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=h&c=47.15125475603739,%20-122.87896881053356&z=15
9-1-1 Call Came From Here 8345 Zangle Rd

http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/maps/map-machine.html#s=b&c=47.158169909142856,%20-122.87331749038385&z=15
Grimmer home (where knocks were heard)

will post more tomorrow

When I look at the time line I have to ask myself why if she just stopped at the williams home to ask for directions, why did she go back to the store she asked for directions? That series of things is strange.

She goes to this store, asks for directions, leaves and a few minutes later shows up at a house 1/2 mile away asking for directions. Then she leaves that house and goes back to the store.

 I have been asking myself all night, what on earth would make a person keep going in the opposite direction and keep asking for directions? In the video you never see her actually look or read the map, the other people are doing it for her. Maybe she didn't understand them correctly when they were telling her? Do they speak clear english?  One thing that dawned on me, do you think maybe she had a reading disability? Do you think maybe she was/is dyslexic?

Clues still scarce 3 days after woman, son went missing

BY JEREMY PAWLOSKI | Staff writer • Published March 17, 2010

 
Dive teams continued searching Puget Sound for a missing Silverdale woman and her 8-year-old son today, and investigators took another look at their abandoned minivan, but neither effort produced new clues to the missing pair’s whereabouts.

Shantina “Kat” Smiley and her son, Azriel J. Carver, last were seen about 10 p.m. Saturday. Their abandoned minivan was found Sunday on a rocky beach at Little Fish Trap, northeast of Boston Harbor.

Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy said today’s search along the shoreline of Dana Passage and Budd Inlet included dive team members who used a submersible camera and sonar to try to locate the pair.

Mealy said detectives took a second look at Smiley’s minivan after the inside of the vehicle, which had been partly underwater at high tide, dried out. They dusted the vehicle for fingerprints but found no new evidence, he said.

When a neighbor discovered the minivan on the beach Sunday morning, Smiley’s wallet, containing identification and credit cards, was in the backseat, but her purse was missing. The van’s side door and rear hatch were open. There is no evidence of foul play, Mealy has said.

Smiley’s fiance, Robb Simmons, has told investigators that Smiley was recovering from an alcohol problem, Thurston County Chief Criminal Deputy James Chamberlain confirmed today. Simmons has told The Olympian that Smiley was on medication for anxiety.

No new search efforts were planned for today, Chamberlain wrote in an e-mail late this afternoon. The sheriff’s office is following up on a number of tips that have been called in, Mealy said.

Smiley has no ties to the Olympia area, according to the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office. Simmons has said he has no idea why they stopped in Olympia, at roughly the midpoint of their drive to Castle Rock to visit Smiley’s stepfather.

Hobert Pannkuk, a reserve sheriff’s deputy who was serving as the search commander, said a Coast Guard helicopter had assisted with an air search of Puget Sound on Monday, but the windy weather prohibited a helicopter search today.

Mealy cautioned that investigators aren’t assuming that Smiley and Carver drowned. He said the disappearances are “very suspicious,” but they aren’t ruling out any possibilities, including that she and her son left the area on foot, or that Smiley left the area safely with her son and does not want to be found.

Smiley and her son last were seen when Smiley knocked on the door of a residence on 46th Avenue off Boston Harbor Road to ask for directions back to I-5, Mealy said. The residents reported that Smiley drove up to the home in her minivan, then left in the vehicle, Mealy has said.

About 9:50 p.m., a store surveillance camera recorded Smiley driving up to the Gull Harbor Mercantile on Boston Harbor Road, but it was closed.

Earlier witness accounts placed Smiley and her son at the Martin Way Diner at 9 p.m. Saturday. Witnesses said Smiley was acting erratically and might have fallen in the parking lot. Smiley bought a corn dog at the diner but left without it.

About 7:50 p.m. Saturday, Smiley and Azriel stopped and made a purchase at the Handy Pantry on Olympia’s west side.

Jill Pribbenow, one of the neighbors who discovered the minivan, said today that the keys were on the dashboard.

Pribbenow said the dirt road that leads down a steep slope to the beach is especially dark at night and is difficult to navigate. She said the disappearance of Smiley and her son is “completely weird.”

The water current on Dana Passage off Little Fish Trap is extremely fast when the tides change, Pribbenow said.

Simmons has said he was on his way to meet Smiley and her son in Castle Rock on Saturday evening after Cub Scout training. He has a Web page at www.robbsimmons.com where he has shared information about the events leading to Smiley and Azriel’s disappearance.

Simmons appeared on several national news programs today to discuss the case.

Whom to call The Thurston County Sheriff’s Office asks anyone with information about Shantina “Kat” Smiley and Azriel J. Carver’s whereabouts to call 360-786-5500, Crime Stoppers at 360-493-2222, or 911.

Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/16/1174731/clues-still-scarce-3-days-after.html#ixzz0l2ipNJJv

This is an early article...but I missed the statement about her wallet being in the backseat...???  Isn't this what she pulled out of her pocket earlier at the store...front pocket?  She didn't carry a purse in store...right?  Why would it be in the backseat?

She was on meds for anxiety? That doesn't mix with wine too well, in fact you are not supposed to drink at all when on them.

The tide must not have been harsh because it didn't take the wallet. It could have moved it though from the front of the van to the back. She put it back in her pocket at the store, maybe she took it out and put it on the front seat once she got in?
But did the tide take the purse and the overnight bag? What happened to them?

And if the water was so high it just about submerged the van, how did the items on the beach stay put? A ball will float, why didn't it float away? The water bottle looks empty? Why didn't that float away? those items I still say were planted there to make it look like they ran into some kind of danger.

The only thing with that is she graduated from the medical coding school...or something along those lines...if she couldn't understand them it would probably be difficult to finish this program...unless that night "something" (drinking, head injury) lead to that disability (for the night)...possible but she didn't seem lost when she pulled off of the exit...per Robb...and why didn't she call home/family earlier if she was having so much trouble?  But, I see what you mean though...it seems possible.  After leaving the Williams home...is that when the view of the van is caught on video?  If so, this does not show who is driving the van...but I am VERY confused about this...I have seen different reports about what happened AFTER they left the Williams house.

true...things could have been shifted...

Description: Paddled from Boston Harbor to the south end of Henderson Inlet and back. Left Boston Harbor in Dana Passage and passed the "little fish trap" and "big fish trap" inlets. Rounded Dickerson Point and ran into a ~15 knot headwind from the south. Followed the inlet to it’s southern terminus at Woodland Creek. After a lunch stop on the east side of the inlet, we crosses back over to the west side and followed the shoreline back to Dana Passage and on the Boston Harbor.

Tides/Currents: To plan your trip with a flood going in to Henderson and an ebb coming out you will have to go against the current both ways in Dana Passage! Make sure you pick a day when the currents are light and easy in Dana Passage – they frequently attain 3 knots +.

3 knots... 2 mph approx...
nothing !

http://www.kayaktripsnorthwest.com/HTM-Directory/HendersonInlet.htm

You nice people need to pay attention..

The alcohol dependance mentioned is by a suspect in this case. He may be covering..mo.

Good point about the school. I don't know much about dyslexia to be honest with ya other then I know a person with it can overcome it and read. Not sure if it comes and goes or if it affected by meds or drinking?

I just don't get how she got to this area in the first place. It is miles from the freeway she would have needed to get where she was going. What the heck is going on with this. I feel we need to paint a big picture, maybe we are missing something.

What are our questions? Lets list them and see if we can answer any of them and what we are left with may give us more clues?

lol I just tried to make my list but I think everything is a question that leads to another question.

I am starting to think everything we think we know, we don't know really know other then what was caught on video but we don't really know why.

We know she was at the places that caught her on video. We do not really know why she went there other then the clerks said she asked for a map and for directions.

We need to know the  "who, what, how, where and why" to put this together and unless there are details that got lost in the story or haven't been told yet, not sure if we can answer these.

Who: Shatina, Azriel
What: lost in Wa, mom missing, boy was found dead
How?: don't know
Where?: don't know
Why?: don't know.

Here is low tide and the search teams are in the water a fair ways out and they still are not in deep water..
(http://media.komonews.com/images/160*120/100316_missing_search.jpg)

(http://www.trpc.org/resources/02_nearshore05_fig3_3.jpg)

(http://www.trpc.org/resources/figure2_1.jpg)

So the currents are 2 mph? I need a comparison. What are the currents in lets say Huntington Beach or Newport?
Actually I know nothing about any of this stuff. I need to rely on someone else.

great point Edward...Tracygirl, I agree a list of questions is a great idea.  I feel like something is about to break with this...I fell asleep a bit ago...to wake to the breaking news in Haleigh's case.  I will post questions too...I think that whatever we keep coming back to has the most meaning...

Currant in the pacific ocean in front of my home in the Monterey bay area is 5 to 7 mph or 7 to 10 knots moving south.
I can go out in a 12 foot boat and drift 10 miles south in just a hour or more..

There is no place to go in an inland water way.. the water comes in and goes out..

Take a look at this map... the star indicates "Little Fish Trap"

 
http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4TSHB_enUS311US311&q=Dana%20Passage&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=vl

I will list ANY question that I have...that isn't completely clear...or wasn't verified by police...

Was this a planned trip? Possibly, relative made comment about her coming down.

Was Robb included in these plans?  He says yes...hmmm...

Why would Shantina leave her phone when she had used it not long before she left the house?

Why wasn't Shantina at the cub scout meeting?

How did Robb know what Shantina was wearing in detail if he had not seen her?  If it was bc of the videos then why didn't he know what Azriel was wearing?

What did Robb get repaired in Toldeo-Vader? What shop?

Why didn't Shantina give Robb an idea of where she was when she called at 6:45?  She said she was in Olympia (per Robb) but couldn't tell him where...though she wasn't lost at this time (just getting something to eat...says Robb).

Why didn't Robb have the address before he headed to the step-father's house? Or at least call her (he didn't know yet that she didn't have her phone per Robb) and ask for it before heading out?

What's up with the posted (now taken down) cub scout schedule?  I have read that he said that he wasn't to get out until 6:30pm yet the schedule (for what he was doing not the Outdoor Exp) says 4pm.

Where did Shantina call from at 6:45pm?

Was she intoxicated?  What are ALL of the reports of her affect that night?

The fall?  How bad was it?

Why no shoes when she went to the Williams home?  Is this true?

I have read reports that she hit her head and reports that she hit her knee...but never both in the same report...so what did she hurt?

Why didn't Robb get a charger earlier?

Why did he fall asleep when he was so worried?  Maybe he assumed that she was not in danger but knew more than what he has led on.

Why a memorial so soon?

Why did Shantina seem to not be in a hurry, like she was waiting?

Why aren't we hearing from Shantina's family?

Is there a better picture of the William's home in relation to the road and other houses?  Why did she stop there?

Who was knocking?  Why didn't they check it out further...if it were enough for them to think that someone was trying to break in?  Who the heck was knocking?  Why that house?  Why no scent?

Was Shantina the one driving when she passed the mercantile store?

I have so many more...some cannot be answered...guess I didn't need to post those.

Thanks Edward for that explanation. I understand it clearer now.

Lab, great list of questions. God know we can list 100 each.  This case is a wild one.

I will add these for now,

Was it Shantina that drove the van to that beach?

Did shantina or Robb know the photographers on Boston Harbor Road?

Who placed the items on the beach? If it was Shantina and her son, why did they take these items with them?

The man in the 911 called talked about this beach being known for gathering shelfish, is this was they were doing on the beach? Did someone catch them and run them off, hurt them?

Why did she pull of the freeway at this spot?

Why did she keep turning the wrong way!? Did she understand the directions given to her? She didn't write them down so did he forget?

Who was the wine supposed to be for? Was she going to take it back to the step dads house as a way to say she was sorry for being late?

In a report I read that Robb expected her at 10, is that bad reporting or did he change his story?

In one of the video's I notice the clerk has a map out and it is still on the counter. Shantina walks away and the clerk still is looking at the map, then she stands up and seems like she is waiting for Shantina to come back to the counter then she puts it away before she returns to the counter. What was going on? To me it looks like she didn't get the directions? (sorry I don't know where I found that, maybe on amanda's site?)

that is all for now, I will probably have more tomorrow.

I want to say a prayer for us tonight. Please God I pray to direct us in the direction that brings answers as to what happened to Azriel and his mother Shantina.  If they came into harms way, please enlighten those who are searching for answers in the right direction so justice can be served. Amen

Goodnight everyone.

I've been checking the websites belonging to RS that are still open.

I found one that I think is interesting.

Someone please copy or read before it's closed down.

According to a few RS's websites, including the facebook, my space, and his business one, he used to take off on sightseeing and picture-taking trips. Since he got the motorcycle, he had gone a few times, and there are a few websites which document that well.

That included the trip to the wine-tasting area, and "The Gorge."

Now, I had read these pages before but went back last night to re-read them.

Among the babble I found this page, which says he and his daughter went to Tacoma about a month before Shantina disappeared to shoot (pictures) and his daughter wanted to go to the Asian Market.

On the way, on I-5, they smelled smoke and followed a few fire trucks, and they took some pictures.

Now, the curious thing about this is that the incident in which they took pictures is on Lakewood - about 5 miles from Fox island (across the water) where Azriel was found.

The Asian Market in Lakewood is west of the interstate, at 11717 Bridgeport Way SW, Lakewood. By his comment, his daughter asked to go to an Asian market, and he IMMEDIATELY knew where it was in Lakewood.

People have debated here and in other forums whether anyone in the family was familiar with the area, or had been down to the area where Shantina got lost.

Well, now we know.

It is very probable that if he went to Tacoma to shoot, and there is the coast next to Lakewood, and he belongs to a few navy clubs that go on hiking (ventures), that he could've been close to, or at, that lonely stretch of beach where the van was found before, maybe shooting pictures, or looking for spots to shoot them.

Here's a small map I made to illustrate:
(http://s803.photobucket.com/albums/yy315/TomboyKetchup/OlytacMap.jpg)
(A) the Asian Market (and where the fire) was
(B) where Azriel was found, and
(C) where the van was found.

Here's the website on their trip:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629#!/album.php?aid=148479&id=175150949629 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629#!/album.php?aid=148479&id=175150949629)

His quote:
His business page, which has been quoted before:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629#!/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629?v=photos (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629#!/pages/Silverdale-WA/Robb-Simmons-Photography-Mobile-DJ/175150949629?v=photos)

----

I have no idea what this is (copycats? old pages?):
http://www.myspace.com/cynthetek
http://www.facebook.com/people/Robb-Simmons/1201642426

 ::MonkeyConfused::