Natalee Case Discussion #847 9/21/10 - 9/25/2010

[Blonde]

Thursday, September 23, 2010
Beth Holloway and Peter DeVries Need to Confront Van der straaten
Forget the attacks on Beth Holloway and accusations of improperly exploited what she's been though and going through.

It's a waste of time to spend any energy on it.

Who knows what happened to Natalee? Joran and Jan van der straaten the Chief of Police when Natalee disappeared, and good friend of the late "premeditated murder" Paulus van der sloot.

He's on Aruba again, just sitting on the crime, sitting in his own shitstorm and Natalee's remains.

Would he talk? His reaction to Beth will say it all, like Paulus running away, cowering while Dave searched the garbage dump for his daughter.

Van der straaten is the case now.

Everything else including Joran is a distraction. The last pieces of their house of cards are van der straaten and the van der sloot property.

Confront van der straaten again and ask him exactly what evidence he claims to have seen that warranted the comment, "This is murder, I've seen the evidence and you haven't?"

This was his answer when he was asked about the 2 security guards who were in jail, accused of murder.

How did Natalee go from murdered to disappeared? Van der straaten knows.

SHUT UP MR. TWITTY OR WE WILL STOP THE ENTIRE INVESTIGATION!!


NANCY GRACE
Joran Re-Arrest Ruling Postponed
Aired February 11, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S STEPFATHER: ... Get Van Der Straaten on TV. See why he won`t come on the air. Ask him why he told me, if I didn`t keep my mouth shut that he was going to stop the investigation, you know? Just -- I would like to see him -- I think, you know...

GRACE: So you`re telling me that an Aruban investigator told you if you didn`t be quiet and quit questioning the investigation, that they would quit investigating, right?

TWITTY: Absolutely. I mean, I challenge him to come on here and say that he didn`t say that to me because I think he, like Paulus Van Der Sloot, are both cowards. They need to come on and clear this thing up. They could have solved it in the first -- in the first two days, three days.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/11/ng.01.html


Jug Twitty Lashes Out at the Prosecutor
Wednesday, September 28, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S STEPFATHER: ... she basically tells me, you know, this is the same thing as Van Der Straaten. You know, you keep acting like this, Mr. Twitty, you know, we’re going to quit. And you know, I said, Well, that’s a great attitude to have.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html

[Rob]

Wreck - you deserve a reply.

I can't speak for others and learned a long time ago that's no appropriate.

TJ will explain himself at some point. That's on him.

He got some case yesterday about a pastor that was molesting some 14 year olds and that's all I really know.

Dana should have him back to explain himself. ( That's my opinion )

TM I AM soooo tempted. Trust me I am. Tickle me a lil and let's see. 

That's fair enough. Please don't think I hold you to anything TJ (or anyone else) says or does. I think Dana DID allow TJ to speak his mind uninterrupted. Again, I know TJ has done some pretty great things for Natalee. I think his heart may be in the right place -- but, his views are 180 degrees from mine as of last night.

Actually Wreck this is where it ALL went wrong for Tim.

This is when I lost respect for him. And instead of screaming like a madman on the internet I just kept my mouth shut.

The reality is - I could careless what Tim Miller thinks of me, but I DO care what you all think. So, I kept it to myself. I don't know Tim and he doesn't know me.

During Caylee's case, I made the point that when a mother kills her child the body is usually very nearby her home. And I do admit myself that I *thought* that Caylee could have been in that small pond over near Sawgrass. Casey kept harping on and on about Sawgrass so it seemed natural to search there and actually no one did until Joe Joseph (I think that was his name) did so at my request.

Tim didn't go over there. He was so enchanted with the cell phone records that he lost sight of what usually happens in a missing person case when the mother is the alleged killer.

Then it got worse - he said that the area that Caylee was eventually found was underwater. I don't know if it was or wasn't, because I wasn't there, but Casey told everyone - actually George - who told everyone else - that Caylee was very nearby - she's close. Then it took forever to find her. Why. Shouldn't that have been a huge clue to re-examine the area? All areas surrounding the home should have been checked and re-checked long before any other areas were searched. That's just the way it should have been. Saying it's underwater and we're moving on is not good enough when you are a professional search organization. You drain the area and then search and then move on. I think we all know that.

That case didn't need to last 6 months. It should have been solved within days and it would have never become the circus it did. Hindsight and all, but Tim has no one to blame for most of the malfeasance that occurred in that case but himself.

The breaking point for me was when Tim took a contribution from Mark Nejame. I don't know all of the details there - but it looked like hush money from an outsider's prescriptive. Mark was still representing Cindy and George when that happened and had not severed his professional relationship at that point if I recall correctly. Some times just the appearance of a bribe is all it takes to make you scratch your head and start wondering. There could have been nothing nefarious that happened, but the perception alone made me think bad thoughts.

I DON'T want to forget the good work Tim has done in roughly 200 + other cases and about 1000 searcheswhere he got the closure that so many families were seeking. It would be an error on my part to only point out some of the more abhorrent things that occurred over the years and not acknowledge his tremendous accomplishments. And I don't roll like that.

Will Tim's reputation recover?

Heck, I don't know, and I am a forgiving person. I would hope that he apologizes to Beth and makes it right with her.

And for the record Beth didn't do a public appearance that TJ asked her for several years ago. What's she to do? Honor every request? I don't think so. she would be up to her lovely cheeks in public appearances.

In my opinion, and that's all this is, Beth has done more for missing persons than anyone. She took it to a new level and she had a lot of help along the way.

[Rob]

Also, I too had serious problems with Tim Miller. This was during the original search for Caylee Anthony. I brought up my feelings/concerns and was quickly shot down. I decided to keep mum out of respect to Red. I think Tim is in serious need of help -- it's a shame that he is unravelling all his selfless feats of the past. -JMO

this is the quote I MEANT to reply to. Oh well. 

screwed that up.

So, my above post is in response to this by Wreck.

[Tamikosmom]

MIXED MESSAGES?  DOUBLE STANDARD?

Natalee Holloway Case

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  .... So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.

<snipped>

Tim Miller:  We’re searchers, we let the investigators do their job...

Transcript - Texasmom

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


Haleigh Cummings Case

NANCY GRACE
Aired October 14, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: That`s right, Nancy. Donna Brock, who is a volunteer for Texas Equusearch, according to Tim Miller, was working all the time to get close to Misty so she could possibly glean information about what Misty may know happened to Haleigh. This was not known to police per se. She was not a, quote, "agent" of police. But she was working for Texas Equusearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to Misty.

GRACE GRACE, HOST: OK. All right. Where all did Donna Brock go with Misty Croslin? Where did they travel?

HARRIS: Nancy, she picked her up in Satsuma and they went to Orlando. They wound up at Universal, Cocoa Beach. They were on the road when everyone thought Misty was on the run. But Tim Miller was wiring money for her to take Misty to get her hair done, her nails done, to try to get close to her. And Misty was really warming up very closely to Donna. So this was something that was working until the road rage incident outed them both.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0910/14/ng.01.html

[Buckeye]

Rob

Was TJ Ward paid $125/hr to search for Natalee?  Who actually paid his fees?  TIA

[Rob]

Rob

Was TJ Ward paid $125/hr to search for Natalee?  Who actually paid his fees?  TIA

it was publicly revealed that TJ was paid 400 thousand in a document a few years ago. It's public knowledge.

I believe either Jug paid (he hired him) or the funds came from donations that were sent in, but I would have no knowledge of the exact specifics.

[Buckeye]

A couple of comments regarding Tim Miller:

I know all about his daughter.  I'm not sure if I first became aware from the TES website or because it is mentioned every time he is on TV.  Seems his focus and life is due to her loss.  He is living due to that situation.

 I guess some families with such a loss choose searching and some choose foundation or missing work like awareness and/or education.  Is it more noble to search for the missing(Tim) or to try and prevent the situation (Mark Klaas, Beth)?  Is it more noble to search for the missing or to search for the perpetrator (John Walsh)? You do not all of a sudden become a bad person because you become successful, at your noble endeavor.

....
As unlikely as it seems, fellow missing child advocate Mark Klaas has blasted Texas Equusearch founder Tim Miller for an amateur undercover operation that used a TES volunteer to befriend Misty Cummings, playing her “undercover mama” in an attempt to ferret out new information that might be helpful to police, who believe the 17 year old babysitter turned stepmom may be hiding more than she’s revealed about the missing child.

Tim Miller “should be in jail” for what he did, declared Klaas on CNN HLN’s The Nancy Grace Show Wednesday night. Klaas said such a sting operation could threaten any case police might build against Misty should she ever be charged.

But an outraged Miller fired back Thursday. “F—Mark Klaas!” said Miller, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth. “Yesterday Texas Equusearch found our 102nd victim. Unfortunately, he’d drowned, but we used our sonar and equipment and brought closure to another family. How many missing people has Mark Klaas found? All he’s done is live off his daughter’s name.”

Miller said he was shocked Klaas would question his status with police, and the high regard LE say they have for TES and its help in the Cummings case. It was Miller who put together an explosive battery of tests, including a polygraph he says Misty flunked, that many credit with jump-starting public interest in the case. Miller shared the results with investigators.

http://www.artharris.com/2009/10/15/exclusive-new-misty-cummings-double-agent-details/


Does Tim Miller have a Private Investigator license?  How come he is involved in the polygraphs and undercover agents?

[Buckeye]

Rob

Was TJ Ward paid $125/hr to search for Natalee?  Who actually paid his fees?  TIA

it was publicly revealed that TJ was paid 400 thousand in a document a few years ago. It's public knowledge.

I believe either Jug paid (he hired him) or the funds came from donations that were sent in, but I would have no knowledge of the exact specifics.

Thanks Rob.

[Tamikosmom]

MIXED MESSAGES?  DOUBLE STANDARD?

Exploitation?

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller:  .... And again I would like to say I believe this is in Natalee’s best interest... and I would believe that if she wouldn’t have went over there with film crews and reports are already out it’s about another documentary.  Money’s going to be paid.  I ... I (crosstalk) It is almost like exploiting...and I know I’m going to get criticism over this but it’s only my opinion and uhhh uhhh it’s almost like... I feel like she’s exploiting Natalee’s disappearance and death for financial gain.

<snipped>

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


The Persistence Search

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Rob]

Buckeye, I actually agree with Mark Klaas in that instance. I don't find myself usually agreeing with him, but in that case he was dead on.

As for TJ - he usually has about 100 + cases on going at any one time. Remember, he was a marine, a paramedic, a fireman, and a host of other public servant positions. He does a few cases per year for no pay. He does that to give something back because he has been so fortunate.

He has a book that's coming out - not sure when it will be completed, but it's almost done. He talks about his life and how he got where he is and the road he traveled. IIRC - he said he joined the marines and has done everything else he has done because his father didn't think he would ever amount to anything - so he is very driven. He asked me to help write his book, but I was unable to to logistics.

TJ is now on that Atlanta Mega church pastor - Bishop ??? something ??? Eddie ??? - the guy accused to molesting a few 14 year olds. I don't know much about that case and my mother knew more than me. LOL

[Rob]

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.

This quote is rather cold-hearted, and I hope it's the wild turkey talking and not his true feelings.

What's Beth to do? Nothing? Wait for some Aruban with a honest conscience will eventually be elected prime minister. That's never gonna happen. That's one Godless island.

So, what's Beth to do?

Like I said - I would have killed Joran years ago. Who cares about going to jail and on Aruba murder isn't even a crime - so no worries there. 

Joran either doesn't know what happened to Natalee's body (my thoughts on it) or he is never gonna reveal it anyway - so he's useless.

[texasmom]

Hi Monks, like many of you I am in shock, my head is spinning.

I have always respected, admired and upheld Tim.....

I can no longer do any of those things and that is very painful and very sad for me.

For me it has always been about support for Natalee and it still is....and always will be.

Rob good to see you and hope you will be here more often.

Great to see you sunnyintx!  You've been on my mind.  I could only imagine how heartbreaking all of this has been for you too.

 

[Tamikosmom]

MARC KLAAS

Nothing More - Nothing Less!

NANCY GRACE
Was Natalee`s Mother Just Arrested at Joran`s Prison?
Aired September 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. You had your daughter taken away from you, brutally.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes.

GRACE: What do you think -- just like Beth Holloway. What do you think she`s doing over in that jail, making her way toward Van Der Sloot?

KLAAS: I know exactly what she`s doing there. She`s trying to find out what happened to her daughter, nothing more and nothing less. Now, she may have been brought in by these other people, but she needs to find out. She has been told lie after lie after lie after lie for five years now.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/16/ng.01.html


A Fierce Mother!

NANCY GRACE
Was Natalee`s Mother Just Arrested at Joran`s Prison?
Aired September 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Nothing is cut and dry. And, in fact, I think that Beth has trusted in the justice system for five years, and I think this latest picture of this smirking little sadist Van Der Sloot in prison living the high life yet again, probably drove her to want to try to get some answers by herself.

She is in no sense of the word a vigilante. She is a fierce mother who wants to find out what happened to her daughter and has demonstrated time and time again she`s not going to let obstacles get in the way of her finding the truth.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/16/ng.01.html

[Monkey King]

O/T Sorry.

Hey Rob,

Would like to run a theory by you on this case prior to posting.  Imperialmonkeyking@yahoo.com

MK

[Buckeye]

Buckeye, I actually agree with Mark Klaas in that instance. I don't find myself usually agreeing with him, but in that case he was dead on.

As for TJ - he usually has about 100 + cases on going at any one time. Remember, he was a marine, a paramedic, a fireman, and a host of other public servant positions. He does a few cases per year for no pay. He does that to give something back because he has been so fortunate.

He has a book that's coming out - not sure when it will be completed, but it's almost done. He talks about his life and how he got where he is and the road he traveled. IIRC - he said he joined the marines and has done everything else he has done because his father didn't think he would ever amount to anything - so he is very driven. He asked me to help write his book, but I was unable to to logistics.

TJ is now on that Atlanta Mega church pastor - Bishop ??? something ??? Eddie ??? - the guy accused to molesting a few 14 year olds. I don't know much about that case and my mother knew more than me. LOL

As far as Tim goes, did he obtain enough fame and crediblity, from the Natalee case that he is now allowed to polygraph and place people undercover?  Do all searchers get that leeway?  I'm confused.

I know you have a great deal of respect for TJ.  Personally, even from early on, I found him a bit irritating.  He always came across as a bit superior and had the tone of a lecturer.  There are several books that I won't be reading this year.  If you had contributed, I might have read that chapter.  Now, I can save more money.

[Buckeye]

MARC KLAAS

Nothing More - Nothing Less!

NANCY GRACE
Was Natalee`s Mother Just Arrested at Joran`s Prison?
Aired September 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. You had your daughter taken away from you, brutally.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes.

GRACE: What do you think -- just like Beth Holloway. What do you think she`s doing over in that jail, making her way toward Van Der Sloot?

KLAAS: I know exactly what she`s doing there. She`s trying to find out what happened to her daughter, nothing more and nothing less. Now, she may have been brought in by these other people, but she needs to find out. She has been told lie after lie after lie after lie for five years now.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/16/ng.01.html


A Fierce Mother!

NANCY GRACE
Was Natalee`s Mother Just Arrested at Joran`s Prison?
Aired September 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Nothing is cut and dry. And, in fact, I think that Beth has trusted in the justice system for five years, and I think this latest picture of this smirking little sadist Van Der Sloot in prison living the high life yet again, probably drove her to want to try to get some answers by herself.

She is in no sense of the word a vigilante. She is a fierce mother who wants to find out what happened to her daughter and has demonstrated time and time again she`s not going to let obstacles get in the way of her finding the truth.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/16/ng.01.html

 

[Rob]

Buckeye, I actually agree with Mark Klaas in that instance. I don't find myself usually agreeing with him, but in that case he was dead on.

As for TJ - he usually has about 100 + cases on going at any one time. Remember, he was a marine, a paramedic, a fireman, and a host of other public servant positions. He does a few cases per year for no pay. He does that to give something back because he has been so fortunate.

He has a book that's coming out - not sure when it will be completed, but it's almost done. He talks about his life and how he got where he is and the road he traveled. IIRC - he said he joined the marines and has done everything else he has done because his father didn't think he would ever amount to anything - so he is very driven. He asked me to help write his book, but I was unable to to logistics.

TJ is now on that Atlanta Mega church pastor - Bishop ??? something ??? Eddie ??? - the guy accused to molesting a few 14 year olds. I don't know much about that case and my mother knew more than me. LOL

As far as Tim goes, did he obtain enough fame and crediblity, from the Natalee case that he is now allowed to polygraph and place people undercover?  Do all searchers get that leeway?  I'm confused.

I know you have a great deal of respect for TJ.  Personally, even from early on, I found him a bit irritating.  He always came across as a bit superior and had the tone of a lecturer.  There are several books that I won't be reading this year.  If you had contributed, I might have read that chapter.  Now, I can save more money.

I respect that Buckeye. Really I do. One thing I do like about him - when he's on NG or JVM or whatever show - he doesn't get into that crazy banter and screaming that all the guests usually end up doing. He waits til he is asked a question and replies.

Tim hired TJ in the Cummings case to LVA misty and I posted the results in HaLeigh's thread when he sent them to me - so to answer your question, heck I don't know. Tim runs his own parallel investigations. 

or maybe they are parallelogram investigations. ( snickers )

 

[Kat_Gram]

snipped "
NANCY GRACE
Aired October 14, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: That`s right, Nancy. Donna Brock, who is a volunteer for Texas Equusearch, according to Tim Miller, was working all the time to get close to Misty so she could possibly glean information about what Misty may know happened to Haleigh. This was not known to police per se. She was not a, quote, "agent" of police. But she was working for Texas Equusearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to Misty.

GRACE GRACE, HOST: OK. All right. Where all did Donna Brock go with Misty Croslin? Where did they travel?

HARRIS: Nancy, she picked her up in Satsuma and they went to Orlando. They wound up at Universal, Cocoa Beach. They were on the road when everyone thought Misty was on the run. But Tim Miller was wiring money for her to take Misty to get her hair done, her nails done, to try to get close to her. And Misty was really warming up very closely to Donna. So this was something that was working until the road rage incident outed them both.

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0910/14/ng.01.html"


[/quote]
I have had an issue with Donna Brock and TES for a long time. She was put in there by Tim, TES and she went in to try to do a good thing. I know that I saw an interview with Tim after she was arrested and he said they knew when she was with TES that she had a pill issue. So, she is a vulnerable person and someone gave her a sales job to get close to Misty. This seems like a bad idea for Donna. It was placing a vulnerable person into a situation where their vulnerability might overcome them. Like sending an alcoholic into bar to sit with the drinkers for days and weeks.
There was no regard for Donna and her personal safety. That entire group in Satsuma is one that would scare the carp out of me. It was bad judgement. Then, after they got caught, Tim was dismissive of her as a human being. I don't believe Donna was a bad person. I know she supplied Misty with some pills and Misty sold them, but prior to that, Donna had done alot of volunteer work and seemed to be trying to live a decent life. Then, she gets put into this situation by persons she probably admired and gets herself 15 years. Oh I know, no one made her do it but herself, but Donna wasn't strong enough and someone should have realized it. This is entirely my own opinion and alot of it is based on knowing several nice women who became addicted to prescription drugs that were obtained from a doctor, or like Donna, from a dentist and then could not get off of them without rehab / interventions / medical assistance.

[Rob]

Hi Bean!!

Steelers are on their 8th quarter back of the season and it's only the third week. Just kidding.

 

[SunnyinTX]

Hi Monks, like many of you I am in shock, my head is spinning.

I have always respected, admired and upheld Tim.....

I can no longer do any of those things and that is very painful and very sad for me.

For me it has always been about support for Natalee and it still is....and always will be.

Rob good to see you and hope you will be here more often.

Great to see you sunnyintx!  You've been on my mind.  I could only imagine how heartbreaking all of this has been for you too.

 

thanks TM...at first I really tried to find some justification for this...I tried very hard....but finally had to admit there was none. I don't know if what Beth and Peter did was right or wrong...if it helped or hindered....and I sure don't know anything that might be going on behind the scenes....but Tim should have kept his thoughts about all this to himself.  I will continue to support TES and the volunteers, but I can no longer support Tim, the person. It might be time for him to step down.