Lively Case Discussion #483 6/29/2006

[friend of monkeys]

I remember in the beginning when Beth first made contact with 'Dinkus',aka (Joran)..   he pounded his chest and and yelled at her '' what do you want me to do?""   he should have completed the comment right then and there. This would be all over with.. ''what do you wantr me to do,, she's already dead'' !!!   (sorry)   I've felt this for a long long time..


God Bless Natalee, Wherever She Is.........................

or.........."they already took her"....would make sense too

[AZLady]

Is everyone leaving now?  I wanted to talk about something that's been bothering me for a week, ever since I heard Jossy on the internet radio show.  Jossy said that the ALE KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment.  They KNOW this.  I wonder how they know it.  What evidence do they have?  Has anyone heard?

news to me....hey all...nice front page

aruba truth archives

a thought while i was away ...ever hear someone say
"one hand washes the other"....lets assume both hands are dirty....what do u get?

dirtyhands

my thought...shango was referring to two people as "dirtyhands"....
anyone??? love to make a few more of my brain cells explode
tia

Agreed.  There are multiple people with "dirtyhands."

[AZLady]

I remember in the beginning when Beth first made contact with 'Dinkus',aka (Joran)..   he pounded his chest and and yelled at her '' what do you want me to do?""   he should have completed the comment right then and there. This would be all over with.. ''what do you wantr me to do,, she's already dead'' !!!   (sorry)   I've felt this for a long long time..


God Bless Natalee, Wherever She Is.........................

or.........."they already took her"....would make sense too

Or they've already disposed of her body.

[Jacqueline]

I too always got the impression that after he said WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO.... that something like:  it's too late now would have followed.

And I feel that meant she was gone.

[Jerry from Ohio]

I agree it was an incomplete sentence  and even the beating on his chest was an inappropiate gesture filled with fear and rage that he was almost caught .
  Such a very sad thing that daddy was allowed and  steped in and stopped him,  if left to his own thought processes   he  would have put his foot in his mouth all the way up to his Knee.  Just an ol Country Boys opinion .
  Jerry from Ohio

**************************************************

I remember in the beginning when Beth first made contact with 'Dinkus',aka (Joran)..   he pounded his chest and and yelled at her '' what do you want me to do?""   he should have completed the comment right then and there. This would be all over with.. ''what do you wantr me to do,, she's already dead'' !!!   (sorry)   I've felt this for a long long time..


God Bless Natalee, Wherever She Is.........................

I agree.  "What do you want to me to do?" seems like an incomplete thought by someone who knows the answer to the question.

[friend of monkeys]

agreeing on all of the above....

not that it solves anything

[Shizaru]

Is everyone leaving now?  I wanted to talk about something that's been bothering me for a week, ever since I heard Jossy on the internet radio show.  Jossy said that the ALE KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment.  They KNOW this.  I wonder how they know it.  What evidence do they have?  Has anyone heard?

I haven't heard anything but think it might go back to the phone records.   And of course we do not have access to those.  Wonder if ALE even bothered to obtain and secure them or waited until they are gone like everything else.  

After Joran's 22nd version of events, eliminating the lighthouse, is this the only place the three still agree that they went that night?  There and the beach?

But you are right to wonder.  Do you suppose there was some forensic evidence found on something, even the gate outside so he had to say there were there or stopped briefly and is that why they claim one of the younger brothers was home?  What a burden and wrong to do to that other child if in fact this has been claimed!  That should be a crime against a child right there.

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

[thik]

I too always got the impression that after he said WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO.... that something like:  it's too late now would have followed.

And I feel that meant she was gone.

exactly !!!  the options are endless aren't they ?

 My wish is that dinkus' be cursed to re-live the events with Natalee, and eventually 'feel' something remorseful.....

[AZLady]

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

Why?

[ala_gunslinger]

I don't think the ale could find their own arse with a map and a compass.

Hey ya'll.

[Shizaru]

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

Why?

Because then Joran would be in jail now.

[AZLady]

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

Why?

Because then Joran would be in jail now.

That was the source of Jossy's frustration and anger.  He said that the ALE KNOW she was in Joran's apartment that night, and he could not understand why they didn't arrest him.

Shizaru, did you listen to the webcast where Dana Pretzer interviewed Jossy?

[sharon]

Sharon, the NYC Bar article has nothing to do with this case or the civil case that JQK filed.  This article is about the enforcement of foreign arbitral awards.  The only thing in common with this case is the term forum non conveniens.  It does not deal with similar issues.

AZLady -- you are correct. This opinion was not expressed as a result or as a request of JQK's filing and it is not related to the case.

This is a special committee of the NYC bar as far as I can tell -- and their role is to express opinions.

It is an opinion expressed on 'forum non conveniens' -- and when it does and does not apply.

Since it is a pdf, I can't seem to cut and paste the actual 'conclusion'.

I am not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV) and I was told, by a legal type, that this would give the NYSC judge an 'opinion' to use or site in her decision.

Since I am not a lawyer, I was asking the legal minds on this board for their input -- I had originally posted this on the previous thread. Sorry for any confusion.

AZlady, if you are a legal mind -- I'm very interested in your input as to their conclusion.

[AZLady]

I do believe Jossy when he makes emphatic public statements that cannot be misinterpreted.  He said, twice, on the air, that the police KNOW she was in Joran's apartment that night.  Thus, my follow-up question is how do they know this, what is their evidence, and, inevitably, why isn't Joran under arrest?

[Shizaru]

No, the three don't agreee that they went to his apt that nite.  2K say they took a completely differnet route, down the main road past La Cabana to the lighthouse.

Also, I don't believe it's true that ALE "knows" she was in his apt.

Why?

Because then Joran would be in jail now.

That was the source of Jossy's frustration and anger.  He said that the ALE KNOW she was in Joran's apartment that night, and he could not understand why they didn't arrest him.

Shizaru, did you listen to the webcast where Dana Pretzer interviewed Jossy?

No, but altho I think Jossy's heart is in the right place, he's not infallible.  I believe there was an effort to protect Joran initially, but that right now if ALE could nail Joran they would.

[KatzHome]

terryd270 wrote:

I was hoping to find TaylorGal on this morning because I had promise to give her a site of a friend that I go fishing with and that created a beautiful yard that I told her about.. Well he will be adding those pictures soon but did just get back from Celtic Fling and Highland Games in
Mount Hope, PA last weekend and those are kinda of neat pictures.. He also has some pictures of the fair that we went this year that I mention. He really takes beautiful nature shots so enjoy..

http://www.decastri.com/

I don't have time right now to look through his whole site ~ but his photo  on the home page is beautiful!!!

And I see that the site was made on a Mac.  It totally figures...


I need a new car ~ and I want a new Mac ~ Oh!  I can't wait till I save enough money to buy both!

[AZLady]

Shizaru, this has nothing to do with Jossy's heart.  Jossy is not a liar; he tells the truth that he knows.  While others on Aruba have dissembled and fabricated and prevaricated, Jossy has always been proven to tell the truth as he knows it.  

He made a very clear statement that the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.  He did not offer his opinion; he did not speculate.  He said, unequivocally, the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.

[AZLady]

Please go to the archives and listen to Jossy discuss the case.  You will hear what I heard. http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/

[Shizaru]

Shizaru, this has nothing to do with Jossy's heart.  Jossy is not a liar; he tells the truth that he knows.  While others on Aruba have dissembled and fabricated and prevaricated, Jossy has always been proven to tell the truth as he knows it.  

He made a very clear statement that the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.  He did not offer his opinion; he did not speculate.  He said, unequivocally, the police KNOW Natalee was at Joran's apartment that night.

I'm not saying he's a liar, I'm saying he may have wrong information. And I think he does, for the reason I stated.  And also because if proof existed that she was in his apt, that would be such a huge bombshell that some word of it would have leaked a long time ago.

[KatzHome]

Klaas ~ if you think that this shouldn't be posted too many times ~ that it should be kept close to the vest ~ please delete this post.  Thanks!

I have to run out ~ but I'll be back in about an hour...

I brought all of Sharon's posts from the last thread on the NYC judge, the ruling, the Hague and NATO escorting Joran over from the last thread.  Thanks for getting my hopes up, Sharon!


sharon wrote:

Morning Monkeys!

I've been out of town a bit lately and away from Internet access -- so I have LOTS of reading to catch up on. It will take awhile.

I know we have 'legal' minds here -- so this is a question to them.

On Michelle's site there has been an 'anonymous' poster that has commented many times on the Hague convention and that if we hear NOTHING that JQK has the right to start questioning jvds and pvds at the 60 day mark. I will post a few of the comments below -- but I have NO IDEA if there is any truth to the comments. Or if they are even the same poster.

Anyone??

"Anonymous said...
Looks like the Judge is playing the Hague Convention 60 days waiting period game by her legal advisement panel. On July 17, JQK has the right to call Joran and Paulus for deposition in NYC courtroom. We will see what happen. This Natalee Case is highly charged and political. If the Bush Administration do not side with Natalee, there will be a very serious consequence for the Mid Term election in NYC for the Republicans.
Thu Jun 15, 01:02:52 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
Looks like the NYSC Judge advisement panel acts on the Hague Convention War Crime 60 days rules protocols without have the initiation Judge to make a ruling on the civil case. That means on July 15, 60 days after the May 15 hearing, the plaintiff can call the Defendant Joran and his lawyer Joe T. to the stand for deposition. Joran will be escorted by the NATO Marine Military Police, and flying in from Holland to New York City. Joran is now under citizen surveilance and prevented from escaping to another country.
Thu Jun 01, 11:10:49 AM EDT "

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT"

"Anonymous said...
The New York City Supreme Court has the direct Hague Convention power granted from the United Nations solely for the New York City Supreme Court to subpoena Joran from Holland to appear in
court in the Month of July, 2006 after Joran completed his current school session. Joran domiciles in Holland and refuses to appear before the Judge at New York City Supreme Court under the adivisement of his attorney Joe Tarcopina. Joran lost his domcile protection after violating the Aruban Judge's restriction travel order by a Dutch court. The NYCSC judge can compel the testimony of
Joran who is unwilling to appear by the force of the NATO military police on the wartime signatory treaties formalised between Holland and the United States ratified in 1965 by Hague Civil Precedure Convention.
Sat May 20, 06:12:51 AM EDT "


This was another VERY interesting post about the subject from a comment at Michelle's site.

This arm of the NY bar that has been formed to express opinions ..... basically says that Taco Joe is out of luck if he thinks that 'forum non conveniens' applies.

Anonymous said...
The New York City Bar Association don't support the Forum Non Conveniens. Here is the link,
http://www.abcny.org/Publications/reports/index.php?type=subject
Tue May 16, 08:10:39 AM EDT


Anonymous said...
It is very clear stated in Hague Convention that the New York City Supreme Court has the absolute subpoena power over all the civil cases related to all FNC over the world because New York City is the landlord of the United Nations' residence based on the Roman Stature. New York City is the only unique place in the world has that power, not even the White House in DC has that power. Please study the Hague Convention by-rules very carefully. United Nations is a Forum Non Conveniens to the Greater City of New York, so the Charter of United Nations pays tribute of civil jurisdiction to the Landlord who is the New York State Supreme Court. It is written in stone upon the Charter of United Nations.
Thu May 18, 10:59:51 PM EDT

Anonymous said...
It is a long haul. However, the Hague Convention allows the plaintiff to call witness while the advisement is in due process. The discoveries can be done in 3 to 4 weeks. But the monetary award by the Judge might take years for the decision depending the date of submital of the affidavit by the advisement panel.
Thu May 18, 02:42:14 AM EDT


"Anonymous said...
Rule 23. 60-Day Rule. If 60 days have elapsed after a motion has been finally submitted or oral argument held, whichever was later, and no decision has been issued by the court, counsel for the movant shall send the court a letter alerting it to this fact with copies to all parties to the motion. While the advisement is in motion and past 60 days without returning an affidavit to the Judge, the Judge will not discourage the plaintiff from calling the defendants to the stand, if the defense have no shows, the defendants will have lost the civil case under the provisions of the Hague Convension. A default judgement follows.
Thu May 18, 05:37:19 PM EDT