Natalee Case Discussion #834 6/4/10 - 6/6/10

[crazybabyborg]

Retro Posting:

When and where did he get the hair dye?

Clowns R Us

[klaasend]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/05/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T2

(snipped)
He said "they found bloodied clothes with" van der Sloot and that investigators are testing them, as well as the tennis racquet, for DNA.

He added that there is no other suspect connected to Flores' death.
(snipped)


PLUS - now they also have his laptop;)

[TURBOTHINK]

Hi Monkeys!

I need to go catch up, but wanted to wave at everybody before I head back!! <monkey wave>!!

The last I read, the Dutch consulate was going to supply Joran with a defense atty. (grrrrr)

My thoughts were that they wanted involvement in the case to make sure Joran didn't spill any beans on their cover-up in Nat's case.

I'm sure that's really old news now, and may have even changed................ I'll go find out! You guys have been busy!

The Dutch consulate is NOT going to supply him with an attorney.
All they do is supply him with a list of attorneys, which is just common protocol for any Western prisoner detained in Peru.

I hope you are right but unless the way I translated the articles was wrong, it specifically said they were providing an attorney.

I am sure there will be no shortage of "dirt bag" attorneys willing to take his case because of the publicity like the BOZO who is defending Casey Anthony. I am willing to wait a couple of years to see him sentenced to life in a Peruvian prison. At least he will be in prison until his trial which means he will not be killing other innocent women during that time.

[Gypsy DD]

I don't think there's a lawyer on God's green earth that can save Joran now!

But, jumping ahead, I would hate to see Peru allow him back to the Netherlands to serve his (expected) sentence.

The Peruvians would be outraged!

Not possible.
There's no extradition treaty between the Netherlands and Peru.

I realize that Jo-An and thank goodness there is no ex.treaty.
I'm just concerned that they might try to negotiate with Peru, wven without the treat.  Do you think that would be a possibility??? tia

Good afternoon Monkeys!  What a relief that Joran is behind bars.  He will be there for the rest of his life.  In Peru murder while committing another crime such as robbery (Stephany's money and jewelry are missing) is punishable by life in prison.

I do not see any deals being made in the future...Stephany's father is very well known, very wealthy, and very connected, shall we say.   He wants justice for Stephany..and for Natalee...and he will be sure to get it.  He has much more pull in Peru then any Dutchman alive.  He has very long arms and very deep pockets.

Joran will be given a list of lawyers..mommy dearest and the attorney will pick one..but they will have to pay for the attorney.  They better save their cash for his lifeterm in jail.  In prison's there you only get food and medical care, and possibly a better cell if your family pays for it...  Joran is starting his lifetime commitment to hell..couldn't happen to sweeter guy.

[EURobert]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053

So I arrived in Lima Peru for my moonlighting job as a poker journalist covering the Latin American Poker Tour (LAPT). The minute I got off the plane I heard on the news that Joran Van der Sloot, the suspect in the Natalee Holloway case was involved in the slaying of 21 year-old Stephany Flores of Lima.

The two met at the Atlantic City Casino--where the LAPT was being held--and were captured together on security video. This was mere hours before I headed to the casino.

I asked the guy in charge of LAPT registration if Van der Sloot was registered as a player in the tournament. He said there was no record--Van der Sloot was merely a "railbird" as they say in poker slang--standing elbow-to-elbow with the other spectators.

The Hotel TAC in Miraflores, where the murder took place, was an eerie sight--mere blocks from where I was staying. Though the sign beamed OPEN, newspaper covered the windows preventing anyone from looking in.

The local Lima news brigade was camped outside the hotel trying to get comments from people, who were being questioned by the police, as they exited. Concerned hotel employees occasionally ducked their head outside the newspaper covered door--it's not good for business to be known as the murder hotel.

"We're trying to look for the police video," informed a local reporter. Despite the fact that the news stated that Van der Sloot and Flores were noted going alone to his hotel room, the reporter mentioned, "They are looking for another guy who was with him who they saw on the hotel security video." The reporter then proceeded to try and get a comment from a scared, tearful woman vacating the premises, while the police coroner also brushed them aside.

Just like in the States, the true victims of these sad, oversaturated news stories get lost in the sensationalistic headlines. (Except the one for "Hemorroides".) It's disturbing how one could go from amongst the railbirds as a poker fan at one of the most thrilling poker tournaments in the world to brutal sociopathic killer as quick as the flip of a river card.

And now a series of idiotic comments from a bunch of bitter writer wannabes........

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053#ixzz0q6KRitK3

there are some good pictures accompanying this article....sorry if it's a repeat......but this is the first I have read about another guy with joran

Yes, there was talk of an Albanian guy. Saw that in some articles yesterday. But I didn't think it was necessary to post that because the hotel-security-video will show who all were in Joran's room. Probably only Joran and Stephany otherwise we would have heard about it.

[can]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053

So I arrived in Lima Peru for my moonlighting job as a poker journalist covering the Latin American Poker Tour (LAPT). The minute I got off the plane I heard on the news that Joran Van der Sloot, the suspect in the Natalee Holloway case was involved in the slaying of 21 year-old Stephany Flores of Lima.

The two met at the Atlantic City Casino--where the LAPT was being held--and were captured together on security video. This was mere hours before I headed to the casino.

I asked the guy in charge of LAPT registration if Van der Sloot was registered as a player in the tournament. He said there was no record--Van der Sloot was merely a "railbird" as they say in poker slang--standing elbow-to-elbow with the other spectators.

The Hotel TAC in Miraflores, where the murder took place, was an eerie sight--mere blocks from where I was staying. Though the sign beamed OPEN, newspaper covered the windows preventing anyone from looking in.

The local Lima news brigade was camped outside the hotel trying to get comments from people, who were being questioned by the police, as they exited. Concerned hotel employees occasionally ducked their head outside the newspaper covered door--it's not good for business to be known as the murder hotel.

"We're trying to look for the police video," informed a local reporter. Despite the fact that the news stated that Van der Sloot and Flores were noted going alone to his hotel room, the reporter mentioned, "They are looking for another guy who was with him who they saw on the hotel security video." The reporter then proceeded to try and get a comment from a scared, tearful woman vacating the premises, while the police coroner also brushed them aside.

Just like in the States, the true victims of these sad, oversaturated news stories get lost in the sensationalistic headlines. (Except the one for "Hemorroides".) It's disturbing how one could go from amongst the railbirds as a poker fan at one of the most thrilling poker tournaments in the world to brutal sociopathic killer as quick as the flip of a river card.

And now a series of idiotic comments from a bunch of bitter writer wannabes........

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053#ixzz0q6KRitK3

there are some good pictures accompanying this article....sorry if it's a repeat......but this is the first I have read about another guy with joran

Sunny, I could be wrong but I think this refers to the casino/hotel video.
He was talking with an Albanian guy I think, and complaining that although he was handsome, he was not able to get a girl. 

[EURobert]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053

So I arrived in Lima Peru for my moonlighting job as a poker journalist covering the Latin American Poker Tour (LAPT). The minute I got off the plane I heard on the news that Joran Van der Sloot, the suspect in the Natalee Holloway case was involved in the slaying of 21 year-old Stephany Flores of Lima.

The two met at the Atlantic City Casino--where the LAPT was being held--and were captured together on security video. This was mere hours before I headed to the casino.

I asked the guy in charge of LAPT registration if Van der Sloot was registered as a player in the tournament. He said there was no record--Van der Sloot was merely a "railbird" as they say in poker slang--standing elbow-to-elbow with the other spectators.

The Hotel TAC in Miraflores, where the murder took place, was an eerie sight--mere blocks from where I was staying. Though the sign beamed OPEN, newspaper covered the windows preventing anyone from looking in.

The local Lima news brigade was camped outside the hotel trying to get comments from people, who were being questioned by the police, as they exited. Concerned hotel employees occasionally ducked their head outside the newspaper covered door--it's not good for business to be known as the murder hotel.

"We're trying to look for the police video," informed a local reporter. Despite the fact that the news stated that Van der Sloot and Flores were noted going alone to his hotel room, the reporter mentioned, "They are looking for another guy who was with him who they saw on the hotel security video." The reporter then proceeded to try and get a comment from a scared, tearful woman vacating the premises, while the police coroner also brushed them aside.

Just like in the States, the true victims of these sad, oversaturated news stories get lost in the sensationalistic headlines. (Except the one for "Hemorroides".) It's disturbing how one could go from amongst the railbirds as a poker fan at one of the most thrilling poker tournaments in the world to brutal sociopathic killer as quick as the flip of a river card.

And now a series of idiotic comments from a bunch of bitter writer wannabes........

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hleon/detail?entry_id=65053#ixzz0q6KRitK3

there are some good pictures accompanying this article....sorry if it's a repeat......but this is the first I have read about another guy with joran

Yes, there was talk of an Albanian guy. Saw that in some articles yesterday. But I didn't think it was necessary to post that because the hotel-security-video will show who all were in Joran's room. Probably only Joran and Stephany otherwise we would have heard about it.

We would have heard it from the police I mean; they would have shown that footage then I think.

[cece]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/6/101257/8021



Update: Joran will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison for the duration of the investigation phase. The prison was the subject of a huge lawsuit in 2006 for violation of prisoners' rights. (see end of this post for more.)

Update: Report from Peru: Joran is refusing to answer questions without a lawyer. Smart move, if true. He also reportedly asked for a non-Dutch attorney and said he was not arrested in Chile but surrendered, knowing he was being sought. Maybe that's why he wasn't handcuffed.

****
Original post: Netherlands Offers Defense Attorney to Joran Van der Sloot

Peru may come to regret the gratuitous perp walk of Joran Van der Sloot. A few days ago, the Netherlands said it would not provide a lawyer for Joran Van der Sloot. Today, that's changed.
[More, with updates below]

    The Dutch Consulate is now involved in the case and has volunteered a defense attorney for van der Sloot, according to Carlos Neyra, a spokesman for the Peruvian Investigative Police.

    ...The Dutch Consulate has told Peruvian authorities that it is not comfortable with the way van der Sloot has been presented to the media, Neyra said. The Peruvian Minister of the Interior is asking authorities not to talk about the case without his authorization.

The continually changing and contradictory media reports and statements by officials and family members in this case, make it difficult to form any kind of cohesive theory. [More...]

So many questions. First, did Joran meet Stephany before Sunday night? Elton Garcia, who was gambling with them Sunday night, knew Joran and was staying at the same hotel as Joran, and had met her before and gambled with her before. Did she also know Joran? The police have taken Elton's statement, why do they believe what he told them? What did Stephany do with the money she won playing with Elton two weeks before? How much of a gambler was she? He says "they" gambled with her four times in May. Was she in debt to a loan shark?

In the hotel video, she's not carrying a purse or anything in her hands, so where were the casino winnings? What happened to the $1,000. her father gave her for a laptop? Did she gamble and lose it? Why did she go back to Joran's room, was she afraid to go home having lost her money or pawned her jewelry? Did Joran offer to loan her some money he had back at the room? If she always wears her necklace and jewelry, why isn't she wearing any in the hotel pictures?

She drove from the casino to the hotel in her vehicle. So at 5 a.m., she wasn't drugged.

The baseball bat has morphed into a tennis raquet and the medical examiner says she may have hit her head on the bed frame which caused her to hemorrhage. Was it an accident and he panicked and left? Her brother didn't see her until 72 hours later, by which time of course the body, not having been embalmed or frozen, was grossly distended, leaking gases and decomposed.

What happened to the second cup of coffee? Why didn't they show the video pictures of him leaving to get coffee or returning with the coffee so we could see what shirt he was wearing? When and where were these bloody clothes found that reportedly were found with Joran? He wouldn't be stupid enough to take bloody clothes with him knowing he's leaving the country. He would have left them in the room or dumped them after leaving the hotel.

Why didn't he ask for his passport when leaving the hotel, drive her car to the airport and hop a plane back to Aruba or the Netherlands? Especially if he thought he had a day or so before they found the body? Where did he leave her car? What did they find in it?

Why didn't he try to cover-up the body, move it into the closet or a bathtub? Why didn't they scrape under her nails for DNA before they buried her?

Joran had his laptop with him when he was arrested. What's on it? Did he e-mail anyone during the two days after he left the hotel in a panicked state or make any admissions? Did he check airfares or travel routes? Did he search the internet for ways to explain or disguise a murder?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions, this is just the beginning, please feel free to add to the list.

Update: Elton Garcia was playing poker the night of June 3. He was eliminated at 1:48 a.m. on June 4.

Update: What the hotel employee Abad Esmeralda who found the body reportedly told the police:

    "I went knocking on the door of Room 309, insisted several times and did not respond, in that act I heard the radio or the TV was turned on at high volume because they listened to outside the room," he said.

    "I thought that Mr. Joran was resting and I left ... back, I opened the back door with the key, walked three meters and found that the room light was turned on, just as the regular TV volume. There a pair of canvas sneakers, was completely unmade bed, they had clothes on the floor, "explained the woman.

    Finally, he said "turn right and saw that there was one person on the floor, I was scared at that moment, I thought it was the citizens Netherlands and afraid I got closer and saw that he had long hair. When in doubt, and I approached I realized that it was a woman who was dead, had bleeding in the nose, wearing a dark polo red panties, the side was covered with a white garment. "

Update: Back to the update at the top, in which Joran says he wants a lawyer and surrendered in Chile. If convicted of murder, the sentence may depend on the motive:

    [If robbery was the motive] the Dutchman could be sentenced to life imprisonment for the crime of aggravated robbery with death. If you are sentenced for aggravated homicide, we expect 30 years in prison, but with the possibility of getting out in six or seven years for the benefits.

Update: On Miguel Castro-Castro Prison and the 2006 lawsuit:

    Approximately 135 female prison inmates (along with about 450 male inmates) were subjected to violent attacks by guards and other state agents over the course of three days at the Castro-Castro maximum security prison. Some female inmates were humiliated, stripped-down and subjected to further physical and psychological abuse. Many inmates were held in solitary confinement, were denied medical care, and were kept from communicating with their families or their attorneys.

    The Court found Peru to have violated Articles 4, 5(1), 5(2), 8(1) and 25 of the American Convention on Human Rights, Articles 1, 6 and 8 of the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture, and Article 7(b) of the Inter-American Convention to Prevent, Punish and Eradicate Violence against Women.

    The Court ordered Peru to investigate and punish those responsible for these violations, to return the bodies of any inmates killed to their next of kin, to publicly acknowledge and apologize for these violations, to provide at no cost medical and psychological treatment to the victimized inmates and next of kin, and to pay reparations to the victims or their next of kin.

Here's the full report on the prison violence and abuse, it's disgusting.

That was all in the prior regime, but the violence continues. In January, 2010, the prison warden was murdered (after being on the job one day.)

    Peruvian President Alan Garcia also expressed his regrets for Vasquez’s death, and did not hesitate to call it a reprisal for his work in imposing discipline on the Miguel Castro Castro prison, the jail that houses the country’s most dangerous convicts, who are doing time for common crimes, terrorism and drug trafficking.

They seem to have treated Joran pretty well up until this point, and they know the whole world is watching. I presume they are smart enough to put him in solitary for his protection.

[carpe noctem]

Those dudes that have a kung-fu death grip on his arms, when he`s in the
bullet proof vest... they look like assassins straight out of a James Bond flick.

Joran isn`t going ANYWHERE.

Those guys are gripping on to him like he was the last sausage biscuit on a plate! LOL

[can]

I don't think there's a lawyer on God's green earth that can save Joran now!

But, jumping ahead, I would hate to see Peru allow him back to the Netherlands to serve his (expected) sentence.

The Peruvians would be outraged!

Not possible.
There's no extradition treaty between the Netherlands and Peru.

I realize that Jo-An and thank goodness there is no ex.treaty.
I'm just concerned that they might try to negotiate with Peru, wven without the treat.  Do you think that would be a possibility??? tia

Good afternoon Monkeys!  What a relief that Joran is behind bars.  He will be there for the rest of his life.  In Peru murder while committing another crime such as robbery (Stephany's money and jewelry are missing) is punishable by life in prison.

I do not see any deals being made in the future...Stephany's father is very well known, very wealthy, and very connected, shall we say.   He wants justice for Stephany..and for Natalee...and he will be sure to get it.  He has much more pull in Peru then any Dutchman alive.  He has very long arms and very deep pockets.

Joran will be given a list of lawyers..mommy dearest and the attorney will pick one..but they will have to pay for the attorney.  They better save their cash for his lifeterm in jail.  In prison's there you only get food and medical care, and possibly a better cell if your family pays for it...  Joran is starting his lifetime commitment to hell..couldn't happen to sweeter guy.

Good afternoon Gypsy - apparently mommy dearest is on her wy to Peru!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Greta is on Fox...special edition of On The Record....right now they have her interview with Joran in Thailand.  Not sure if it's a filler due to the current events surrounding the POS.

[Blonde]

Natalee walked into it under false pretenses...

It is probably EXACTLY what happened to Stephany, too.

To him, it's just like luring a mouse into a trap.

which ruse did he use?

Since she won money from another player, she most likely won money from him too. I am thinking she may have just been taking him there to his hotel to get her money and leave. They were in her car and she may have been told the money was in the room and she went to get what he owed her. Then he killed he and left in her car with her money too.

I hadn't thought of that, Turbo! If Stephany was not interested in a sexual relationship, which has been suggested, that would explain why she would go with him to his hotel room.

What made me think of that was the video from the office. She did not act the least bit interesting in him or what he was doing at all like someone would be if she were interested at all in him personally. It appeared much more like a business deal to me. If you noticed she followed behind him like you would do for business. I don't think she had any intention of being with him but just there to collect her money or something.

This makes sense to me.  Good thinking!

Do we know if she smoked pot?

WE KNOW HE DOES..

[klaasend]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/6/101257/8021



Update: Joran will be held at the Miguel Castro Castro prison for the duration of the investigation phase. The prison was the subject of a huge lawsuit in 2006 for violation of prisoners' rights. (see end of this post for more.)

Update: Report from Peru: Joran is refusing to answer questions without a lawyer. Smart move, if true. He also reportedly asked for a non-Dutch attorney and said he was not arrested in Chile but surrendered, knowing he was being sought. Maybe that's why he wasn't handcuffed.

****
Original post: Netherlands Offers Defense Attorney to Joran Van der Sloot

Peru may come to regret the gratuitous perp walk of Joran Van der Sloot. A few days ago, the Netherlands said it would not provide a lawyer for Joran Van der Sloot. Today, that's changed.
[More, with updates below]

    The Dutch Consulate is now involved in the case and has volunteered a defense attorney for van der Sloot, according to Carlos Neyra, a spokesman for the Peruvian Investigative Police.

    ...The Dutch Consulate has told Peruvian authorities that it is not comfortable with the way van der Sloot has been presented to the media, Neyra said. The Peruvian Minister of the Interior is asking authorities not to talk about the case without his authorization.

The continually changing and contradictory media reports and statements by officials and family members in this case, make it difficult to form any kind of cohesive theory. [More...]

So many questions. First, did Joran meet Stephany before Sunday night? Elton Garcia, who was gambling with them Sunday night, knew Joran and was staying at the same hotel as Joran, and had met her before and gambled with her before. Did she also know Joran? The police have taken Elton's statement, why do they believe what he told them? What did Stephany do with the money she won playing with Elton two weeks before? How much of a gambler was she? He says "they" gambled with her four times in May. Was she in debt to a loan shark?

In the hotel video, she's not carrying a purse or anything in her hands, so where were the casino winnings? What happened to the $1,000. her father gave her for a laptop? Did she gamble and lose it? Why did she go back to Joran's room, was she afraid to go home having lost her money or pawned her jewelry? Did Joran offer to loan her some money he had back at the room? If she always wears her necklace and jewelry, why isn't she wearing any in the hotel pictures?

She drove from the casino to the hotel in her vehicle. So at 5 a.m., she wasn't drugged.

The baseball bat has morphed into a tennis raquet and the medical examiner says she may have hit her head on the bed frame which caused her to hemorrhage. Was it an accident and he panicked and left? Her brother didn't see her until 72 hours later, by which time of course the body, not having been embalmed or frozen, was grossly distended, leaking gases and decomposed.

What happened to the second cup of coffee? Why didn't they show the video pictures of him leaving to get coffee or returning with the coffee so we could see what shirt he was wearing? When and where were these bloody clothes found that reportedly were found with Joran? He wouldn't be stupid enough to take bloody clothes with him knowing he's leaving the country. He would have left them in the room or dumped them after leaving the hotel.

Why didn't he ask for his passport when leaving the hotel, drive her car to the airport and hop a plane back to Aruba or the Netherlands? Especially if he thought he had a day or so before they found the body? Where did he leave her car? What did they find in it?

Why didn't he try to cover-up the body, move it into the closet or a bathtub? Why didn't they scrape under her nails for DNA before they buried her?

Joran had his laptop with him when he was arrested. What's on it? Did he e-mail anyone during the two days after he left the hotel in a panicked state or make any admissions? Did he check airfares or travel routes? Did he search the internet for ways to explain or disguise a murder?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions, this is just the beginning, please feel free to add to the list.

Update: Elton Garcia was playing poker the night of June 3. He was eliminated at 1:48 a.m. on June 4.

Update: What the hotel employee Abad Esmeralda who found the body reportedly told the police:

    "I went knocking on the door of Room 309, insisted several times and did not respond, in that act I heard the radio or the TV was turned on at high volume because they listened to outside the room," he said.

    "I thought that Mr. Joran was resting and I left ... back, I opened the back door with the key, walked three meters and found that the room light was turned on, just as the regular TV volume. There a pair of canvas sneakers, was completely unmade bed, they had clothes on the floor, "explained the woman.

    Finally, he said "turn right and saw that there was one person on the floor, I was scared at that moment, I thought it was the citizens Netherlands and afraid I got closer and saw that he had long hair. When in doubt, and I approached I realized that it was a woman who was dead, had bleeding in the nose, wearing a dark polo red panties, the side was covered with a white garment. "

Update: Back to the update at the top, in which Joran says he wants a lawyer and surrendered in Chile. If convicted of murder, the sentence may depend on the motive:

    [If robbery was the motive] the Dutchman could be sentenced to life imprisonment for the crime of aggravated robbery with death. If you are sentenced for aggravated homicide, we expect 30 years in prison, but with the possibility of getting out in six or seven years for the benefits.

Update: On Miguel Castro-Castro Prison and the 2006 lawsuit:

    Approximately 135 female prison inmates (along with about 450 male inmates) were subjected to violent attacks by guards and other state agents over the course of three days at the Castro-Castro maximum security prison. Some female inmates were humiliated, stripped-down and subjected to further physical and psychological abuse. Many inmates were held in solitary confinement, were denied medical care, and were kept from communicating with their families or their attorneys.

    The Court found Peru to have violated Articles 4, 5(1), 5(2), 8(1) and 25 of the American Convention on Human Rights, Articles 1, 6 and 8 of the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture, and Article 7(b) of the Inter-American Convention to Prevent, Punish and Eradicate Violence against Women.

    The Court ordered Peru to investigate and punish those responsible for these violations, to return the bodies of any inmates killed to their next of kin, to publicly acknowledge and apologize for these violations, to provide at no cost medical and psychological treatment to the victimized inmates and next of kin, and to pay reparations to the victims or their next of kin.

Here's the full report on the prison violence and abuse, it's disgusting.

That was all in the prior regime, but the violence continues. In January, 2010, the prison warden was murdered (after being on the job one day.)

    Peruvian President Alan Garcia also expressed his regrets for Vasquez’s death, and did not hesitate to call it a reprisal for his work in imposing discipline on the Miguel Castro Castro prison, the jail that houses the country’s most dangerous convicts, who are doing time for common crimes, terrorism and drug trafficking.

They seem to have treated Joran pretty well up until this point, and they know the whole world is watching. I presume they are smart enough to put him in solitary for his protection.

[Jo-An]

Embassy Joran gives lawyers list

LIMA - The Dutch Embassy has Joran van der Sloot given a list of Peruvian lawyers that he can approach to represent him. A spokesperson from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced Sunday.

Providing such a list falls under the "consular assistance" that the Dutch ministry every detainee in foreign grants. Van der Sloot must decide which Peruvian lawyer to represent him. According to the spokesman of the Ministry, Van der Sloot Sunday that decision yet taken.
Peruvian media claimed Sunday that the suspect wants him in Peru by a Peruvian lawyer and not by a Dutch.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6873654/__Joran_krijgt_lijst_advocaten__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

[crazybabyborg]

Retro Posting:

Updated RU poll:



My guess at the 9 people that believe Joran is an innocent sporter and wouldn't hurt a fly, he just has really really bad luck.

Medleyrelay
Glenda
Cajun_Mali
CherokeeKid
Heli
suraja
Bizman
gwen
Unreals

WHAT is wrong with these people?????

I'm repeating myself, but ............ there's a CAMERA that shows a living Stephany entering that room with Joran. ONLY Joran is seen by that camera coming or going from that room until Stephany's body is discovered. Unless there are killer birds in the wallpaper that killed her and wrapped up her body, JORAN KILLED HER! Geeeeezz.......... I suppose bloody clothes found with Joran's stuff is because he had a nose bleed from the height of the pedestal they have him on! RU needs to change it's name to Labotomy Unlimited.

Retro Rant Over.  <grin>

[EURobert]

Natalee walked into it under false pretenses...

It is probably EXACTLY what happened to Stephany, too.

To him, it's just like luring a mouse into a trap.

which ruse did he use?

Since she won money from another player, she most likely won money from him too. I am thinking she may have just been taking him there to his hotel to get her money and leave. They were in her car and she may have been told the money was in the room and she went to get what he owed her. Then he killed he and left in her car with her money too.

I hadn't thought of that, Turbo! If Stephany was not interested in a sexual relationship, which has been suggested, that would explain why she would go with him to his hotel room.

What made me think of that was the video from the office. She did not act the least bit interesting in him or what he was doing at all like someone would be if she were interested at all in him personally. It appeared much more like a business deal to me. If you noticed she followed behind him like you would do for business. I don't think she had any intention of being with him but just there to collect her money or something.

This makes sense to me.  Good thinking!

Do we know if she smoked pot?

WE KNOW HE DOES..

Could have been GHB; that's what was found in her car. It's not clear whos GHB it was. So if she had some of that it could have been voluntary or involuntary.

[TURBOTHINK]

I understand what you are sayin Jesdamala.

Thank you.  Even though I registered years and years ago, I was only a reader, never a poster.  So, forgive my posting mistakes, I am getting used to how to reply!  I have two sons who bracket Joran in age.  Just where and how does a life go wrong?  Is it only the parenting?  The enabling?  Is it wiring?  If it was simply spoiling my guys would be messes.  They are not.  They were, and still are, spoiled with love, and things I can comfortably provide for them.  But I have been strict about behavior toward others.  Now, they live far away, and hopefully what they have been taught will stay with them.  I am appalled by Joran's behavior. I am very, very grateful my own sons did not take a similar path to destruction.  

It's all of it.  He was a born sociopath.

Yes, and more likely in my opinion a masochistic psychopath. The line is not well defined in psychology. Many sociopaths become psychopathic or are even originally that and just get better at it with time. Most sociopaths have a proclivity for violence and while some never act on that it seems as if once they do, the game is on. Provided they are not forcibly stopped, they can do anything at all because they have no conscience. Ones who have access to family money and have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred they can even arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people without being caught.

With enough money people like him can even accomplish this from far away and then watch with satisfaction law enforcement trying to put the pieces together. A person like him who is possessed of  a "blood lust" and no conscience takes great pride in watching others try to figure out his perverted mind patterns.

About 1 in every 25 persons are sociopathic which is a frightening statistic if you think about it.

[Jesdamala]

Thank you.  Frightening. 

[San]

I understand what you are sayin Jesdamala.

Thank you.  Even though I registered years and years ago, I was only a reader, never a poster.  So, forgive my posting mistakes, I am getting used to how to reply!  I have two sons who bracket Joran in age.  Just where and how does a life go wrong?  Is it only the parenting?  The enabling?  Is it wiring?  If it was simply spoiling my guys would be messes.  They are not.  They were, and still are, spoiled with love, and things I can comfortably provide for them.  But I have been strict about behavior toward others.  Now, they live far away, and hopefully what they have been taught will stay with them.  I am appalled by Joran's behavior. I am very, very grateful my own sons did not take a similar path to destruction.  

It's all of it.  He was a born sociopath.

Yes, and more likely in my opinion a masochistic psychopath. The line is not well defined in psychology. Many sociopaths become psychopathic or are even originally that and just get better at it with time. Most sociopaths have a proclivity for violence and while some never act on that it seems as if once they do, the game is on. Provided they are not forcibly stopped, they can do anything at all because they have no conscience. Ones who have access to family money and have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred they can even arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people without being caught.

With enough money people like him can even accomplish this from far away and then watch with satisfaction law enforcement trying to put the pieces together. A person like him who is possessed of  a "blood lust" and no conscience takes great pride in watching others try to figure out his perverted mind patterns.

About 1 in every 25 persons are sociopathic which is a frightening statistic if you think about it.

That is frightening.

[crazybabyborg]

darleenofalabama? <monkey wonkey eyed blink>

Bless her heart!


Glenda as a reliable news source? < Monkey puke>

Hold my heart!