Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[Desdemona]

Bunch files motion for Terri to see Kiara
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/terri_moulton_horman_seeks_reg_1.html

Motion:
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/bunchmodify.pdf

Thanks, Puzzler!

Thank you for posting this, Brandi.

Personal opinion:  Under the circumstances, if the court were to grant Terri supervised visits with Kiara, it would be ABOMINABLE if Kaine were made to foot the bill for the supervision, as Bunch asserts should be done.  Despicable, IMO.

[nicubird]

Bunch files motion for Terri to see Kiara
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/terri_moulton_horman_seeks_reg_1.html

Motion:
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/bunchmodify.pdf

Thanks, Puzzler!

Thank you for posting this, Brandi.

Personal opinion:  Under the circumstances, if the court were to grant Terri supervised visits with Kiara, it would be ABOMINABLE if Kaine were made to foot the bill for the supervision, as Bunch asserts should be done.  Despicable, IMO.

Val has an interesting read on the visitation request over at Hinky.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/15/kyron-horman-case-terri-files-motion-to-have-visitation-with-kiara/

Desdemona, thank you for your well worded posts. You seem to have a way of putting my thoughts into words.

[Desdemona]

Thanks, Puzzler!

Thank you for posting this, Brandi.

Personal opinion:  Under the circumstances, if the court were to grant Terri supervised visits with Kiara, it would be ABOMINABLE if Kaine were made to foot the bill for the supervision, as Bunch asserts should be done.  Despicable, IMO.

Val has an interesting read on the visitation request over at Hinky.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/15/kyron-horman-case-terri-files-motion-to-have-visitation-with-kiara/

Desdemona, thank you for your well worded posts. You seem to have a way of putting my thoughts into words.

You are right about Valhall's post -- I just read it, and it is a good one.  Thanks for the link.  Here is an excerpt:

So…good luck, Mr. Bunch, trying to force Kaine to pay the charges that will be incurred for the supervisor of the visitations – if supervised visitation is even granted.  It is not KAINE’s alleged behavior that has led to a protective order nor is it KAINE’s alleged behavior that will most likely lead to the necessary supervision during any visits between Terri and Kiara. 
- - - - -

And thank you for the thank you's, nicubird and grey.  I send the thanks right back to you and to Scatty and Seeme and Sunny and nurseratchett and several others like you, who always seem to express EXACTLY what I was thinking and then some, often far better than I could myself.  And thank you to all monkeys who express your opinions respectfully, whatever those opinions might be.

[Kokos Cat]

Witness: 

We know for a fact that Kyron's step mom was on Sauvie Island. Not only the cell phone, but eye witness reports that she was out here driving very fast and crazy.

 
Here is the original post from an island resident:

http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&p=381#p381

amarareign   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:12 am


Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island   
We know for a fact that Kyron's step mom was on Sauvie Island. Not only the cell phone, but eye witness reports that she was out here driving very fast and crazy. There was also another vehicle with her. He drove off the road, due to the speed they were both driving. This was reported to the tip line from people who live on the island and seen this take place. It was the morning that Kyron went missing.

You guys are confusing us as to where to look. There are som many differant places in which you are all talking about..... Now we will wait and pray for someone to find him.


Top      

concernedmama   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:17 am


Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:28 pm
Posts: 50   
Oh I didn't hear that report...can you link us up?


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amarareign   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:27 am


Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island   
Its not on a report. This is a small island. Most of the people have lived out here for years. We have a small knit community on the island. People out here try to pay attention to vehicles and people. We are a tourist trap at this time of year. We have issues with theft on the farms and all sorts on nonsense. We all try to watch out for each other. In other words, people pay attention when anything is not normal. We have our own neighborhood watch as one could say. It has been reported to the proper agency. This is why we feel they have spent so much time out here. There were eye witnesses who wrote down license plate numbers.

We also hope you are right and Kyron is NOT found on the island. We had another tradgedy on the same day Kyron dissapeared. A lot of the people out here are dealing with the loss of a very good friend. If the sherriffs dept. looked somewhere else, it would possibly let our hearts heal for our neighbor and friend.

Thanks Kokos Cat,  I was just going to post 'KOKOS knows'  LOL

I guess it is like anything we read here that is not verified by a quote, that we take it as given and can Sleuth with it in mind, just not depend on it being correct, eh?

We already know Puzzler read something saying RDSQRL was not on the license plate which raises a red flag with these comments IMO.  I actually tend to believe where there is smoke there is fire in this instance.  There is so much we don't know about this 'RUMOR', but I know I read the wild driving took place on the east side of the island.  That is very interesting to me, as the last searches have been up that east road {from what I saw on the news} where the Wild Life preserve is located.  It makes one look at these comments with a bit wider eye than we normally would.  xox

So many times a "rumor" turns out to be truth. We have seen it in other cases, Amber Dubois is one. There was a rumor John Gardner had lead detectives to where Amber was buried and turned out he did do that although at the time was very difficult to believe. But how can this be true?
Terri would have had to leave the school, drive to FM, drive to Intel switch cars, drive to Sauvie Island, drive around there doing whatever, drive back to Intel switch the cars again, drive to the gym and then go home...hmmm to me that sounds like a morning jam packed. It just doesn't sound plausable to me.
But if you read the posts the person is sure it happened. Backed it up by saying there was a report to the police and everything. Of course it is thrid hand. Her friend is a neighbor to one of the witnesses, right? This is one of the points with this case that I find interesting.

 

Hi, TG!

Good question....

IMO, this is one possibility is this:  KH and TH were both there, on the island, driving.  It's the only thing that makes any sense.  Unless Kaine cloned Terri. 

IMO, it was the two of them, for whatever reason.   

KH got off work early, and then he worked at home.  He was in a meeting that morning, until about 11 a.m., I think.  Then, as far as I know, he doesn't have an alibi except for when he was supposedly with TH at the bus.  This is going to make me very unpopular here, I realize.  But he had the time and opportunity.  They could have been pursuing someone else... I'm not saying that they disappeared Kyron.  Just that it makes sense, their vehicles, on the island, with them driving.

KH is more involved than we realize, IMO.   

And, as far as the witness reports go, it is second hand.  I have spoken with island residents who know the witnesses.  However, the witnesses have been asked not to discuss this further.  So, there are still some details that are unclear.  And, I'm not prying into this anymore.  I don't want to compromise the investigation, not that I know enough to do so, anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

[Desdemona]

Sorry for O/T, but I should have known better than to throw names out there.  Firstly, because I left out so many:  Lenie, Nana29, fatcatlurker, Neighbor, WantKyHome, pdh3, and others whose names escape me at the moment... and cw618 for the great ideas and research, and special friend Deenie for her tireless sleuthing and heart.  But upon reflection, I honestly should not have started calling out names anyway... because all Monkeys are valuable and have something worthwhile to offer.  And I really do fiercely defend everyone's right to have and express their own opinion, as long as it does no real harm or damage to others.

Thanks, Deenie, for embedding the "Somewhere Out There" video a few pages back.  I think of the two far-apart mice who are longing to find each other as Kyron and Desiree.  May they be reunited in the here and now... but if not, there is always "Somewhere Out There."

 

(Here is where Deenie posted the video.)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8694.msg1246742#msg1246742

[Desdemona]

Regarding the rumors of Terri's Mustang and a truck driving wildly on Sauvie Island on June 4:

1.  They are rumors.  While it is true that sometimes rumors pan out, it is also true that in the absence of other evidence or corroboration, especially if they conflict with known facts or assumptions, they should probably be considered to be less than accurate.

2.  The alleged sighting took place in the morning.  Kaine was at work until around 1pm.

3.  If any vehicles owned by Terri or Kaine had entered or left the premises at Intel that morning, LE would have learned of it.

4.  Kaine does not need an "alibi."  He is in no way considered by investigators as a possible suspect in his son's disappearance.  If he did need one, he has a solid one.  LE has verified his whereabouts that morning to their complete satisfaction.

Now, that is not to say that someone on Sauvie Island, on some date on or around June 4, did not see a red Mustang driving fast.  Maybe it actually was Terri's Mustang with the vanity plates.  Maybe she was alone, maybe she was accompanied by another vehicle, maybe it was indeed a truck.  Could be.  That would be interesting to know.  It could actually lead to information about pre-planning, or an accomplice.

Keeping an open mind is crucial in getting to the bottom of a criminal case, or any mystery for that matter.  However, IMO it seems counter-productive to finding the truth, to persist speculating on a theory that conflicts directly with the known facts in the case, and with Occam's razor*.

(*Explained by Sir Isaac Newton like this:  We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances.
Link:  http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/General/occam.html)

[Desdemona]

Hi, TG!

Good question....

IMO, this is one possibility is this:  KH and TH were both there, on the island, driving.  It's the only thing that makes any sense.  Unless Kaine cloned Terri. 

IMO, it was the two of them, for whatever reason.   

KH got off work early, and then he worked at home.  He was in a meeting that morning, until about 11 a.m., I think.  Then, as far as I know, he doesn't have an alibi except for when he was supposedly with TH at the bus.  This is going to make me very unpopular here, I realize.  But he had the time and opportunity.  They could have been pursuing someone else... I'm not saying that they disappeared Kyron.  Just that it makes sense, their vehicles, on the island, with them driving.

KH is more involved than we realize, IMO.   

And, as far as the witness reports go, it is second hand.  I have spoken with island residents who know the witnesses.  However, the witnesses have been asked not to discuss this further.  So, there are still some details that are unclear.  And, I'm not prying into this anymore.  I don't want to compromise the investigation, not that I know enough to do so, anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

For Kokos Cat:

(BBM)

As for the statement, "Just that it makes sense, both of their vehicles, on the island, with them driving" --  I strongly contend that no, on the contrary, it does NOT make sense.  Why would this make sense to you, when Kaine's whereabouts are known and nailed down for that morning, and LE does not suspect him in any way, shape, or form to be involved in what happened to Kyron?

Also disagree that "Kaine is more involved than we realize."  Upon what do you base this statement?  Will you please provide reasons for this?  Or is it just a feeling, or a hunch on your part?

Um, and "Kaine was supposedly with TH at the bus."  Wait..."supposedly?"  Are you saying you doubt whether Kaine was at the bus stop to meet Kyron that day?  First I've ever heard of that fact being questioned.  What do you base that doubt upon?  Will you please provide your reasons for this, too?

If the witnesses have been asked by LE not to discuss this, then why have they been talking to those who are talking to you?  And given that request by LE, should these "second hand" people even be talking to you at all?  Just asking.  Can you explain this satisfactorily?

[Desdemona]

Posted today, on the "Missing Kyron Horman" Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=154041244633308&comments

Community Day at Roloff Farms
by Missing Kyron Horman on Friday, October 15, 2010 at 10:19am

Roloff Farms and the family of Kyron Horman would like to invite the community to "Community Day" at the Roloff Farm this Saturday, October 16th.  Hours are 10am to 6pm.  Parking is $2.00/car and admission to the Pumpkin Patch is free.

The Kyron Horman Foundation will be selling t-shirts, bracelets, and buttons and there will be a silent auction which will include a private tour of the farm.  Digital finger printing will be available to children at no cost.

 From Portland take Hwy 26 west to Exit 61 (Shute/Helvetia Rd). Turn right (north) onto Helvetia Rd at the exit. Continue for approx 3 miles and follow the signs to Roloff Farms.  You can find more information about the Roloff Farms at www.therolofffamily.com

Please bring your family and have fun while enjoying one of Kyron's favorite holidays.

- - - - -

The comments on this update (at the link, beneath the main post) are heart-warming, inspiring; a few are quite interesting.  I hope it is a big success.  I hope Kyron is found soon.

[Desdemona]

O/T Police:  Please look away for just a quick second... [so I can add:  appreciation for monchichi and darla, too...]  Okay, I'll try to stop now.  LOL

  Back to Kyron.
We love you & miss you, Kyron. Come home soon!

[Grey]

Hi, TG!

Good question....

IMO, this is one possibility is this:  KH and TH were both there, on the island, driving.  It's the only thing that makes any sense.  Unless Kaine cloned Terri. 

IMO, it was the two of them, for whatever reason.   

KH got off work early, and then he worked at home.  He was in a meeting that morning, until about 11 a.m., I think.  Then, as far as I know, he doesn't have an alibi except for when he was supposedly with TH at the bus.  This is going to make me very unpopular here, I realize.  But he had the time and opportunity.  They could have been pursuing someone else... I'm not saying that they disappeared Kyron.  Just that it makes sense, their vehicles, on the island, with them driving.

KH is more involved than we realize, IMO.   

And, as far as the witness reports go, it is second hand.  I have spoken with island residents who know the witnesses.  However, the witnesses have been asked not to discuss this further.  So, there are still some details that are unclear.  And, I'm not prying into this anymore.  I don't want to compromise the investigation, not that I know enough to do so, anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

For Kokos Cat:

(BBM)

As for the statement, "Just that it makes sense, both of their vehicles, on the island, with them driving" --  I strongly contend that no, on the contrary, it does NOT make sense.  Why would this make sense to you, when Kaine's whereabouts are known and nailed down for that morning, and LE does not suspect him in any way, shape, or form to be involved in what happened to Kyron?

Also disagree that "Kaine is more involved than we realize."  Upon what do you base this statement?  Will you please provide reasons for this?  Or is it just a feeling, or a hunch on your part?

Um, and "Kaine was supposedly with TH at the bus."  Wait..."supposedly?"  Are you saying you doubt whether Kaine was at the bus stop to meet Kyron that day?  First I've ever heard of that fact being questioned.  What do you base that doubt upon?  Will you please provide your reasons for this, too?

If the witnesses have been asked by LE not to discuss this, then why have they been talking to those who are talking to you?  And given that request by LE, should these "second hand" people even be talking to you at all?  Just asking.  Can you explain this satisfactorily?

Again, well said. Thank you, Desi, and thank you for all of your posts today.

[Puzzler]

Updates have resumed at bringkyronhome.org.


http://bringkyronhome.org/findkyron/default.html

10/12/2010      Kaine:     I wanted to thank all of the Search and Rescue crews out on the search again the past two weekends and the days in between. We can’t thank you all enough, you are amazing. Our thoughts are with you all as work on Sauvie Island continues until closure; we hope for clues and/or information that can help solve the mystery of Sauvie Island on June 4th and aid in bringing Kyron home as quickly as possible!!

- - - - -

"...as work on Sauvie Island continues until closure..."

"...the mystery of Sauvie Island on June 4th..."

Wow.

And it's interesting to note that Sauvie Island, the scene of the recent intense searches, will be the scene of a pumpkin patch fundraiser.  The family used to get their Halloween pumpkins out there.

See details at the link.

Des - TY.  Wow! The mystery of Sauvie Island - Kaine's words, I'm assuming.

What does that mean?  The mystery?  Is this the first we've heard of a mystery?  I know they're searching and for some reason...but to state it as "they mystery".  It that a new clue?

[monchichi]

O/T Police:  Please look away for just a quick second... [so I can add:  appreciation for monchichi and darla, too...]  Okay, I'll try to stop now.  LOL

  Back to Kyron.
We love you & miss you, Kyron. Come home soon!

Thanks, Desi!  It was so quiet yesterday, I was getting worried.  I'm glad to see so many friendly monkeys today!

[neighbor]

:

Well said, Desi. Thank you.

Second that, TY

[Puzzler]

Question - How did TH get all the stuff into the school that morning?  Kyron with jacket and backpack, science project, and Kiara?  Lots of stuff to carry and worry about. 

I'm pretty sure we know that the science project was set up before Friday morning.

She probably had Kitty in a stroller and Ky wore his jacket and backpack.

Information has been sparse concerning Kiara's presence with Terri at the school on June 4.  I'm having trouble remembering whether it has ever been mentioned that Terri had Kiara in a stroller inside the school that day... has it?

FWIW, the lady who saw Terri inside the Fred Meyer store shortly after Terri left the school said that Kiara was in Terri's arms, didn't she?  That would imply that Terri did not take a stroller into the Fred Meyer store.  Which might be considered unusual:  If the only purchase Terri intended to make was "medicine for Kitty," she would not be likely to use a big shopping cart (where Kitty could have ridden).  But it might have made sense and been most convenient in that case, to bring her in using a stroller.  I can recall very few occasions when my children were that small, that I would navigate a large store with the child in my arms. 

Des...yes, I did read somewhere that Kitty was in a stroller, but I do not have a link nor am I really of the opinion that is so...but it is an explanation as to how so many things "could" be handled. 

I remember when I read about the stroller that it didn't seem practicable to me since the school has two floors and to the best we can piece together, it's likely that Terri was on both floors as Kyron's classroom is on the 2nd floor.  So "if" Kiara was there, I'd be more inclined to
think that Terri was carrying her.

But what I do know, is that we really don't "know" much of anything.  Very little, really. Facts?
What facts? Anyone can say anything to the press...I mean anyone...including LE, Kaine, Desiree, attorneys, news organizations, etc. 

There has been so much Terri is not cooperating, Terri is cooperating; to MFH plot, alleged MFH plot based; DeDe is not forthcoming and we may bring a civial suit if she doesn't, to no further talk about DeDe; to LE manufacturing photos of where the truck could have been parked, to LE wants "independent" recollection.  Really not much fact that stands on firm ground that you can "consistently" depend on.  And because even the LE doesn't have to tell the truth....well, then...how can you really believe anything is a fact or not a fact until it's on the record in a court of law?

Basically, I believe that LE has spent the money they say they have and that they've finally formed a task force. 

Of course, I know it's a fact that Kyron's missing and that he went missing from his school.

LE has managed to keep information on this case so quiet (which is an amazing feat IMO - hat tip to LE), that we have no clue who or how many people they're looking at.  People that were not considered at the beginning, could be in LE's crosshairs at this minute...we have no way of knowing. 

I want LE to find the truth - all of it - no matter who is involved - one person or many people...all of them, I want to be found guilty in a court of law.

[Monkey King]

The "Mystery of Sauvie Island", hmm...

Oh, the mystery/rumors where an individual AND their vehicles can be cloned and zip around town?  THAT mystery?  I thought it may have been something else.

[MuffyBee]

O/T Police:  Please look away for just a quick second... [so I can add:  appreciation for monchichi and darla, too...]  Okay, I'll try to stop now.  LOL

  Back to Kyron.
We love you & miss you, Kyron. Come home soon!

There are a lot of monkeys here at Scared Monkeys and from time to time we recognize some of their extra efforts.  However, to be fair, there isn't enough space nor is this thread an appropriate place to start listing names. There are a lot of monkeys that are unsung heroes and sometimes just fine peeps to post along side.  If I started naming names and thanking, I would be accused of playing favorites.    I can't look away for a sec.  As a moderator, I don't scroll past posts.    OT Police.   

[Monkey King]

The only thing we know for sure, is LE has been searching Sauvie Island- for whatever reason they seem to think, they are looking for either Kyron or clues. 

[MuffyBee]

The only thing we know for sure, is LE has been searching Sauvie Island- for whatever reason they seem to think, they are looking for either Kyron or clues. 

    ITA, Monkey King.

[neighbor]

Question - How did TH get all the stuff into the school that morning?  Kyron with jacket and backpack, science project, and Kiara?  Lots of stuff to carry and worry about. 

:
She probably had Kitty in a stroller and Ky wore his jacket and backpack.

Information has been sparse concerning Kiara's presence with Terri at the school on June 4.  I'm having trouble remembering whether it has ever been mentioned that Terri had Kiara in a stroller inside the school that day... has it?
:

Des...yes, I did read somewhere that Kitty was in a stroller, but I do not have a link nor am I really of the opinion that is so...but it is an explanation as to how so many things "could" be handled. 

I remember when I read about the stroller that it didn't seem practicable to me since the school has two floors and to the best we can piece together, it's likely that Terri was on both floors as Kyron's classroom is on the 2nd floor.  So "if" Kiara was there, I'd be more inclined to
think that Terri was carrying her.
:

Agree, a stroller would be not be the practical approach.  Also, many kids make their first own steps into this world around age 1.  Kiara was about 18 months, so she probably could walk holding her hand.

[Monkey King]

What did the project consist of?  A shoe box and a tri fold board display which folded in 3.  I hardly think they needed the truck to move that for starters.

Second off, I'm sure Kyron would have bolted out of the car and helped carry his project.  Terri could have carried Kiara and put the project in the stroller.  It would have been light enough to pull up the stairs, of had Kyron put his back pack in the stroller and he could have carried the shoebox.

You have to make things work when you have kids.