Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 - 1/25/08

[crazybabyborg]

The article doesn't say what the info Dompig gathered consisted of or revealed, only that he gathered it, right?

[BUCKSHOT]

I know nothing about Charles Croes, other than the info posted in the media.
He owns a cell phone company that services the island.
He met with Beth upon arriving on the island, at a gas station.
Etc...

My personal opinion is that he is not completely above board.  There is something about him that leads me to believe that he (a) is shady, (b) made sure he stayed out of the limelight at all times, (c) has more information than he is willing to acknowledge, and (d) is a double agent for sloots and has always placed their interest over that of family looking for their daughter.

Does anyone else feel the same way OR am I way off base with these thoughts???

[NCMike]

Interesting update concerning the search, would someone like to bring it over?

[crazybabyborg]

Interesting update concerning the search, would someone like to bring it over?

Mike, I always just check the ocean thread here at SM...................is that the one you're referring to? If not, have you got the link handy? TIA!

[crazybabyborg]

I know nothing about Charles Croes, other than the info posted in the media.
He owns a cell phone company that services the island.
He met with Beth upon arriving on the island, at a gas station.
Etc...

My personal opinion is that he is not completely above board.  There is something about him that leads me to believe that he (a) is shady, (b) made sure he stayed out of the limelight at all times, (c) has more information than he is willing to acknowledge, and (d) is a double agent for sloots and has always placed their interest over that of family looking for their daughter.

Does anyone else feel the same way OR am I way off base with these thoughts???

You're not off base at all, Buckshot! I totally agree!

[MumInOhio]

Morning CBB...before long they will have the plane landing in Aruba before it departs Alabama.....


I wonder how many more statements they have to change before all is presented in the Dr Phil case....LOL

[Ree]

Perhaps the objective is to make sure that if this case ever goes to trial, there will be no credible witnesses left.  Afterall who would believe a witness who can't remember if something happened at 1945 or 2300 and changes his statement a couple of years after the fact?

[crazybabyborg]

Morning CBB...before long they will have the plane landing in Aruba before it departs Alabama.....


I wonder how many more statements they have to change before all is presented in the Dr Phil case....LOL

Morming, Mum! Yep, it's going to get interesting inserting all those time zones! 

[private eye]

Remember the DEA agent is the one that drove to that gas station tomeet with Charles Croes...why the gas station?  Why not the lobby of the hotel?  He is also the one that asked Beth to remain in the car at the Sloots.

I called the FBI, and I called a couple of offices, the titles of which I honestly can't remember on that Monday when Beth got the call and was driving to Birmingham, one of them being an island in the region close to Aruba, another in Washington, Birmingham, etc and I was told that there was a US agent of some sort on the island. He wasn't normally stationed there, but he happened to be there. So I always assumed the DEA agent was to whom they were referring. Why is he suspect?

Trojan horse?

Of course he could be as everything in this case seems to be nailed down firmly to the clouds:) but those were real people in real offices who knew nothing at the time other than I was requesting some undefined help for an undefined situation involving Beth, her daughter in Aruba, and they, which one I honestly don't remember, told me there was an agent on the island for some reason who would provide what assistance he could, while assuring me they would get the message to the appropriate people when they could reach them. Then as promised by US authorities, a US agent was there ready to assist Beth when she got there, as they had told me. Maybe there was another agent, I don't know, but I always assumed that this guy was who they told me would be there to assist her.

[msmarple]

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=719&Itemid=30

Apparently an armed attempted carjacking; accident resulted; driver robbed of cash.

Un estilo nobo di atraco introduci na Aruba       

Thursday, 24 January 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Riba Diaranzon, na forma oficial, Polis a duna relato di e caso na unda un homber a bira victima di dos atracador.

Esaki a socede Diamars madruga net na rotonde na Ponton. Un estilo nobo pa comete atraco a worde introduci na Aruba.

Te asina leu segun por a saca afor di e locual a socede riba e marduga. E prome informe cu a yega na centralista di Central di Polis cu na e rotonde en cuestion a socede un accidente.

Patruya di Oranjestad, a worde dirigi na e lugar di desgracia y aki agentenan a polis a topa un Toyota Rav4 claba den e rotonde. E chofer cu ta e homber naci na China di inicialnan C.T.NG. di 51 aña a conta polis kico a caba di tuma lugar.

Pa cuminsa segun e victima cu un rato prome e ta yegando na e rotonde, dos homber a atake. Segun e version di e chofer, e ta bayendo cas, y yegando e rotonde e tin cu para na e cruzada. Aki diripiente un homber a bin riba dje y para cu un arma di candela mik den su direccion.

Loke denunciante a wak a pone den un susto spanto a pone primi trot, perde control y a bay dal den e rotonde.

Ademas e chofer ta bisa acerca, cu pa suerte e homber cu arma no a dispara riba dje. Despues di a dal y kibra e Toyota Rav4, e dos hombernan a blo riba dje sorprende cual uno di nan a dale cu e arma di candela den su cara banda drechi.

Y asina tambe e atracadornan a probecha di kita 2.000 Florin for di e homber Chines. Despues di comete e acto di corbardia e dos individuonan a core bay.

Ambulans a presenta y e paramediconan a duna e victima prome auxilio. A keda constata cu e caso aki ta uno serio y e forma cu el a tuma lugar estilo Carjacking a haci su entrada riba nos Isla.

Online Pap translation:

one style new of atraco introduci at aruba

thursday, 24 january 2008

oranjestad (aan): on diaranzon, at form oficial, police owing to give relato of the caso at where one man owing to become victima of two atracador.

this owing to socede tuesday madruga just at rotonde at ponton. one style new for comete atraco owing to worde introduci at aruba.

till so far according can owing to saca afor of the locual owing to socede on the marduga. the first informe cu owing to arrive at centralista of central of police cu at the rotonde provided that cuestion owing to socede one accidente.

patrol of oranjestad, owing to worde dirigi at the lugar of desgracia y here agentenan owing to police owing to come across one toyota rav4 claba in the rotonde. the chofer cu is he naci at china of inicialnan c.t.ng. of 51 year owing to count ; police kico owing to end of take lugar.

for cuminsa according the victima cu one rato first the is yegando at the rotonde, two man owing to atake. according the version of the chofer, the is bayendo cas, y yegando the rotonde the have cu stop at the cruzada. here diripiente one man owing to come on dje y stop cu one arm of candela aim at in his direccion.

thing denunciante owing to look at owing to place in one susto spanto owing to place press trot, lose control y owing to bay strike in the rotonde.

besides the chofer is tell acerca, cu for suerte he cu arm not owing to dispara on dje. after of owing to strike y break the toyota rav4, the two hombernan owing to blo on dje sorprende cual uno of they owing to dale cu the arm of candela in his cara near right.

y so also the atracadornan owing to probecha of less 2.000 guilder for of he chinese. after of comete the acto of corbardia the two individuonan owing to core bay.

ambulance owing to present y the paramediconan owing to give the victima first help. owing to stay constata cu the caso here is uno earnest y the form cu past did take lugar style carjacking owing to haci his entrance on we island.

* * *

[crazybabyborg]

Perhaps the objective is to make sure that if this case ever goes to trial, there will be no credible witnesses left.  Afterall who would believe a witness who can't remember if something happened at 1945 or 2300 and changes his statement a couple of years after the fact?

They're doing a real good job of meeting their goal, aren't they, Ree? I can't think of one witness or person from the island, other than Jossy, whose credibility would stand up under good cross examination. I also think that the credibility of the witnesses in Beth's group just looks all the more strong in the face of that.

[private eye]

I know nothing about Charles Croes, other than the info posted in the media.
He owns a cell phone company that services the island.
He met with Beth upon arriving on the island, at a gas station.
Etc...

My personal opinion is that he is not completely above board.  There is something about him that leads me to believe that he (a) is shady, (b) made sure he stayed out of the limelight at all times, (c) has more information than he is willing to acknowledge, and (d) is a double agent for sloots and has always placed their interest over that of family looking for their daughter.

Does anyone else feel the same way OR am I way off base with these thoughts???

I thought one of Beth's Mt Brook friends knew him casually, maybe met him vacationing there, or thru some buisiness meeting, and knew what he did for a living and called him and asked him to help. And I am sure he like most people who had casual friends in far away places who had a daughter in distress in their home town said he would help and he probably meant it when he was first asked as news was not known. But then his relationship with his close neighbors/ cronies over rode his duty to casual friends as the case unfolded. I doubt seriously that he was already in the know that night.

[BUCKSHOT]

So, regarding the DEA agent, Eric Williams....

(1) Was he on an undercover mission in Aruba, regarding illegal activities? His presence and witnessing of information can not be used in this case because it would "out" his real reason for being there. Makes his whole presence irrelevant to this case..

OR

(2) He was actually a retired DEA agent, living in Aruba for some time.  He was befriended, over his time of residency, by Arubans and was in on "the fix" along with others....

OR

(3) ?????

How hard is it to locate him for an interview to clarify ???? Just curious.....

[MumInOhio]

PE...I left you a link to the previous discussions from 12/5 which came up when Aruba blamed the family and the D$A for the investigation failing...I think on the last page, but IIRC because of the FOP, which has now been renamed, they have agents either there or Curacao. It was the weekend of the Soul Beach Festival, so maybe some were visiting. I would have to go back and reread the links on the FOP for more info...will see if I can do it later.

[Lala'sMom]

Remember the DEA agent is the one that drove to that gas station tomeet with Charles Croes...why the gas station?  Why not the lobby of the hotel?  He is also the one that asked Beth to remain in the car at the Sloots.

I called the FBI, and I called a couple of offices, the titles of which I honestly can't remember on that Monday when Beth got the call and was driving to Birmingham, one of them being an island in the region close to Aruba, another in Washington, Birmingham, etc and I was told that there was a US agent of some sort on the island. He wasn't normally stationed there, but he happened to be there. So I always assumed the DEA agent was to whom they were referring. Why is he suspect?

I don't think he's suspect as you put it...I have just always said that to have a DEA agent on the island at that time and for those in the know to know he's there is not because he was on vacation...

[klaasend]

Latest update from Persistence:

Special Notice:
By John Silvetti-
The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.

Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area. This information in combination with the weather patterns observed by the survey team since our arrival on December 15th left only one boundary to define. The team needed to observe the island from offshore on a small vessel at night to determine this boundary. Sounds easy….huh?

After 2 unsuccessful attempts using a local vessel due to fuel and mechanical problems, the decision was made to utilize the R/V Persistence’s Rescue Boat, the “Avon”. The Avon is a 16’ center console inflatable vessel powered by a 70 hp Daihatsu engine. Prior to dark, the Avon was launched from the Persistence and piloted to the Holiday Inn Pier by Captain Jim Graves. Later that evening, John Silvetti boarded the vessel with Capt. Graves, transited to the start point, and commenced an offshore run documenting the time and vessel position with a WAAS enabled hand-held GPS system. At one mile out, radio communications were confirmed with the Persistence. At six miles out, radio communications were again confirmed along with spot light identification as the Avon crossed astern of the Persistence. It was somewhere shortly after this point that Murphy boarded the Avon!

The weather was very similar to the recorded weather of late May, 2005. The seas were running 4-6’ with swells of 6-8’. It was rough for an Avon! Upon reaching the final destination point while documenting the final position, the engine sputtered and stalled. It never started again! Approximately 30 minutes of effort to restart the engine was fruitless. I believe that is when we noticed that we were taking on water! HELLO HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM!

As we watched Aruba disappear over the horizon, contemplating our broken engine, a vessel taking on water and the fact that we are about to enact the emergency contingencies of our procedures, Capt. Graves stated, “ I am sure glad that it is so dark!” I took the bait. Why? Because I believe we would be scared to death if we could see how big these waves are! Persistence…Persistence….this is Avon on channel 16 ..over! Silence. Persistence…Persistence….this is Avon on channel 16 ..over! Five minutes of silence. Back up frequency. Persistence…Persistence….this is Avon on channel 09 ..over! Five minutes of silence. VHF comms failure. Ya gotta love Murphy.

Thanks to the support of Coast Guard Curacao, Aruban Port Authority and some unbelievable cell phone coverage, the Persistence plucked us out of the water approximately 16 miles offshore Aruba. We had acquired a tremendous amount of information to determine the last boundary and learned a few lessons:

1) Never use your lower back to absorb the shock of pounding seas when you are fat and out of shape.
2) Never get fat and out of shape.
3) No matter how complete and thorough your safety procedures are, never count Murphy out!

-John Silvetti

[robots]

I know nothing about Charles Croes, other than the info posted in the media.
He owns a cell phone company that services the island.
He met with Beth upon arriving on the island, at a gas station.
Etc...

My personal opinion is that he is not completely above board.  There is something about him that leads me to believe that he (a) is shady, (b) made sure he stayed out of the limelight at all times, (c) has more information than he is willing to acknowledge, and (d) is a double agent for sloots and has always placed their interest over that of family looking for their daughter.

Does anyone else feel the same way OR am I way off base with these thoughts???

You're not off base at all, Buckshot! I totally agree!

croes is up to his neck in something having to do with this case

MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT

perhaps someone had a phone from him and they wanted to make sure that all VIDEOS
on the phone could be erased or something needed to be "Changed" on the phones

but he is BAD- very bad

[Lala'sMom]

I know nothing about Charles Croes, other than the info posted in the media.
He owns a cell phone company that services the island.
He met with Beth upon arriving on the island, at a gas station.
Etc...

My personal opinion is that he is not completely above board.  There is something about him that leads me to believe that he (a) is shady, (b) made sure he stayed out of the limelight at all times, (c) has more information than he is willing to acknowledge, and (d) is a double agent for sloots and has always placed their interest over that of family looking for their daughter.

Does anyone else feel the same way OR am I way off base with these thoughts???

He was a strange character for sure.  If you read what Beth relates he said to her on that first night after the gas station incident you will find  out how really weird he is.  I think his loyalties would lie closer to Aruba than to the mother of a missing tourist.  MOO

[MumInOhio]

Lala's...do you remember from those links for the FOP..if the agents were stationed on Aruba or Curacao?  TIA

[private eye]

So, regarding the DEA agent, Eric Williams....

(1) Was he on an undercover mission in Aruba, regarding illegal activities? His presence and witnessing of information can not be used in this case because it would "out" his real reason for being there. Makes his whole presence irrelevant to this case..

OR

(2) He was actually a retired DEA agent, living in Aruba for some time.  He was befriended, over his time of residency, by Arubans and was in on "the fix" along with others....

OR

(3) ?????

How hard is it to locate him for an interview to clarify ???? Just curious.....

What I was told was that the US did not have a station with agents there and our governments office there was on a neighboring island, but there happened to be a US agent there, for some reason ( I know she wouldn't have told me a complete stranger that there was an undercover drug investigation in process of which he was in charge) and that she would contact him and he would be there to provide assistance to Beth when she arrived. I did not know when she would get there, and I imagine Beth or her other friends made the same calls giving them more exact information. I made these calls without even having spoken directly to Beth, but after getting a message out on the lake, she had called my house and either spoken to my kids or left a message and my kids tracked me down. The message was basically to call the FBI and tell them something was terribly wrong as Natalee was missing, and while at first I couldn't really digest the message, or imagine anything like this would be happening on such a pretty day at the lake to a girl who was so unwild, after I remembered Natalee, her personality and habits, I raced to the house and got on the phone and started calling, being told who to call, calling them, and on and on. I remember being surprised at the FBI being closed for the holiday, but despite being told that I don't think she meant it literally and they seem to have gotten the word out. I did call back the next day to one of the offices, or they returned the call, but by then it was obvious that Beth was assisted by the FBI somehow. The agent meeting her there was expected, though I have no idea how he knew when she would arrive or was there or how he contacted her. I did give them Beth's cell phone number and Mt Brook phone number and I am sure they contacted her that day. I also didn't think to ask what the agents status was, or his  reason for being there. I was just glad to here he was there and he would do what he could to help.