Natalee Case Discussion #761 6/26 - 6/30/08

[carpe noctem]

Seems you have gotten a bit angrier than when you posted this a few pages earlier PI. Can't say I blame you either way you say it hard or soft.....the kids a looser. 
++++++++++++


And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Having read many of the National Enquirer articles that followed this story, I have to wonder if JVDS is away from home because he is really afraid of drug dealers, organized crime persons, and an assortment of others that might be embarrassed by the truth.  jmho

What options are available to Joran at this point in time?  A witness protection program?   

Is their protection for his family?  Mom?  Brothers?  Extended family?

Would the witch hunt begin again?

Would anyone believe him if he told the truth?

Is it possible to protect Joran from the truth?   Can the truth be ignored?

I think one of the requirements of getting into the WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM,

is that you first must be a witness, and not the prime suspect of a crime.

Not that Aruba has a witness protection program, anyway.

They're not that advanced. We eat with forks and knives,

they still eat raw meat & toss the bones over their shoulders.

An evening of entertainment for an Aruban is playing with a Bic lighter!

It's the gift of fire.   


UNGAAAAA MOOOOONGAAAA  -Captain Cave Man

[WhiskeyGirl]

Seems you have gotten a bit angrier than when you posted this a few pages earlier PI. Can't say I blame you either way you say it hard or soft.....the kids a looser. 
++++++++++++


And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Having read many of the National Enquirer articles that followed this story, I have to wonder if JVDS is away from home because he is really afraid of drug dealers, organized crime persons, and an assortment of others that might be embarrassed by the truth.  jmho

What options are available to Joran at this point in time?  A witness protection program?   

Is their protection for his family?  Mom?  Brothers?  Extended family?

Would the witch hunt begin again?

Would anyone believe him if he told the truth?

Is it possible to protect Joran from the truth?   Can the truth be ignored?

Joran is not acting like he is "afraid" of anything. Just the opposite. He is acting like he has gotten away with it and no one can touch him.
Protection for his family??? It's his FAMILY that abetted him.
Witch hunt??? That implies they are innocent. They are most certainly NOT.
"If he told the truth????"  He has LIED from day 1.
Protect Joran from the truth????????  The TRUTH will damn him for etrnity.

What are you smoking?????? 

I am sure there are a lot of people that would want to hurt JVDS if he told the truth about what happened.  Some might even want to take matters into their own hands.  mo

I would imagine that the same emotions on his face that annoy posters in the cage, also annoy many on Aruba.  Many people on Aruba do not have the ability to change things.  They are stuck in the reality created by JVDS and others.  mo

If JVDS is ever charged with a criminal act, I believe he should get a fair trial and sentence.  I'm not sure where they would get a judge from, may be time to look into a jury system.  A jury of ones 'peers'.   imho

JVDS does have family that ar not responsible...grandmother for example.  IIRC, some Dutch camped outside their homes, even though JVDS had moved on.  There was the guy that looked like JVDS that was put through hell after Peter's show.  Also, the actor that played him in the Dutch reenactment show, I wonder how he has been impacted as well.  jmho

[private eye]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

Sadly, Joran has become a poster child for the attraction that gambling, drugs, porn, and 'easy' money has on young people.  He is not alone.  These things ruin so many young lives.  jmho

Children learn from those around them. 

Sometimes, no matter how good the example is, the child takes a different path in life. 

Sometimes, no matter how rough and rocky the example may have been, the child does well and prospers.

Sometimes, I think the best thing to do is keep the child from being run down by the train.  Teach the child to stay away from the tracks, teach the child some good rules to live by, and to pay attention when the train is coming.  It doesn't make any sense to take the child to the casino station or side of the tracks, and leave them all alone.  imho

Lots of people put pennies on the track when a train comes, and they admire the results.  Sometimes the pennies fly away, never to be found.  Sometimes, people are careless, and someone get's hurt.  mo

He definitely wasn't raised in the best "village" including well to do US people coming there on vacation with their vacation manners and morals. That could include me only I visited other places. No knock intended, but the beach life of Aruba and Aruba is a little lacking in being a child friendly environment, though many have prospered there. Parents first, neighborhood second. These parent s have directed Joran down this maze of lies

PI...You are amazing...please, don't ever think otherwise...just FORKIN' AMAZING!!!!!!

Speaking of forking, my censor just poked me with her fork and told me I was done for the night. Beth is and has been very very blessed by the amazing goodness of scared monkeys and its posters, at a time when she needed it the most. Thank you Thank you Thank you.

[wreck]

What I object to WG, is that appears you think "Joran telling the truth" will exculpate him.

[texasmom]

Private Eye,
I always enjoy your posts and hope you'll come back as soon as you can! 

TM
 

[Observer]

Just a reminder for those with cable..That Haunting Evidince rerun is on tonight..I am watching the end of it now in my area..The part where....Carla says money was exchanged and a man of wealth and power orchestrates the cover up.

I am pretty sure they read a lot on these blogs  What didn't set right for me was all the promises Carla made about naming names and a lot more but never does..When someone says they have credible evidence to help solve this case but never follows thorugh,it leads me to believe they are FOS. Wether it be a deep throat,psychic or a infiltrator writing a book,I have seen a few that made promises they never kept so we buy there books and watch there TV shows. I am glad these shows were made and the books written,all except Patrick Van Der Eem who I am convinced is a snake and working with the cover up.

When I think of Carla,it reminds me of Easy..Who I liked and miss..I hope all is well with him.

[carpe noctem]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

Sadly, Joran has become a poster child for the attraction that gambling, drugs, porn, and 'easy' money has on young people.  He is not alone.  These things ruin so many young lives.  jmho

Children learn from those around them. 

Sometimes, no matter how good the example is, the child takes a different path in life. 

Sometimes, no matter how rough and rocky the example may have been, the child does well and prospers.

Sometimes, I think the best thing to do is keep the child from being run down by the train.  Teach the child to stay away from the tracks, teach the child some good rules to live by, and to pay attention when the train is coming.  It doesn't make any sense to take the child to the casino station or side of the tracks, and leave them all alone.  imho

Lots of people put pennies on the track when a train comes, and they admire the results.  Sometimes the pennies fly away, never to be found.  Sometimes, people are careless, and someone get's hurt.  mo

He definitely wasn't raised in the best "village" including well to do US people coming there on vacation with their vacation manners and morals. That could include me only I visited other places. No knock intended, but the beach life of Aruba and Aruba is a little lacking in being a child friendly environment, though many have prospered there. Parents first, neighborhood second. These parent s have directed Joran down this maze of lies

PI...You are amazing...please, don't ever think otherwise...just FORKIN' AMAZING!!!!!!

Speaking of forking, my censor just poked me with her fork and told me I was done for the night. Beth is and has been very very blessed by the amazing goodness of scared monkeys and its posters, at a time when she needed it the most. Thank you Thank you Thank you.

Please tell her we worship the 10 piggy toes she walks on, P.I.

She is a goodie! Every member of Nat's family are good ones,

we love and support them to the top of the hill!!! NO SWEAT.

[Observer]

Have a good night PI...You can tell Beth we haven't even broken a sweat yet 

[WhiskeyGirl]

What I object to WG, is that appears you think "Joran telling the truth" will exculpate him.

exculpate

To clear or excuse from guilt.

An individual who uses the excuse of justification to explain the lawful reason for his or her action might be exculpated from a criminal charge. Exculpatory evidence is evidence that works to clear an individual from fault.

http://www.answers.com/topic/exculpate

I believe the truth will not clear JVDS and others from 'fault' in the case of Natalee Holloway.

The truth may allow him to seek forgiveness.

[dennisintn]

This post caught my attention at RU 
    
WordsofWisdom wrote:


IMO Renee seems to be a strong woman, that takes NO crap from anyone, and doesn't give a fat rats ass what others think. She also seems to be a woman with a lot of integrity. I have seen nothing to dispel that belief. In fact your constant banter about her enforces my belief that she is on to something.
-----------------
xipp  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am     
She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 

i seriously doubt she can spell the word, much less understand what it means.  either that or she's dumber and more gullible than anyone i know.  or maybe it's greed that drives her.
dennisintn

[casa]

This post caught my attention at RU 
    
WordsofWisdom wrote:


IMO Renee seems to be a strong woman, that takes NO crap from anyone, and doesn't give a fat rats ass what others think. She also seems to be a woman with a lot of integrity. I have seen nothing to dispel that belief. In fact your constant banter about her enforces my belief that she is on to something.
-----------------
xipp  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am     
She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 

i seriously doubt she can spell the word, much less understand what it means.  either that or she's dumber and more gullible than anyone i know.  or maybe it's greed that drives her.
dennisintn

Words of Wisdom is an idiot!  According to her every picture of Natalee that has been posted is photo shopped.  She has posted all kinds of nasty stuff about Beth.  She has NO integrity and I would never trust anyone she recommended.

[Observer]

I have noticed that WoW gets very defensive when it comes to Renee.  I was wondering if they are one of the same? 

You know, like when Glenda and Siddalee get defensive when we talk about what a POS Julia Renfro is 

Yup,that or just someone supporting her in the VDS camp.  This WOW and Gielen are so sinister and stupid it's almost funny..She reminds me of a poster I met at FOK who only talked about Gelen and Beth lying  Looks like our GBMW has payed attention 
----------------------------------
GBMW wrote:


I'm hoping there will actually be something new in the docu. Everything mentioned by her in her posts & in the couple of interviews she has done have already been talked about at length....that 'point of view' is quite old (and filled mostly with lies & bs...jmo).

I've heard some people here have helped her...and it's a big forum when it comes to this case...but she doesn't read here?

-----------------------------------
WordsofWisdom wrote:
What specifically are you referring to as lies and bs?
----------------------------------
GBMW wrote:

List is very long...but here are a few...these things were mentioned in the recent interview with her...so that's why I think it will probably be in the docu:

Joran doesn't have anything to do with it
Natalee was a junkie
Natalee didn't want to go home
Beth already knew that Natalee wouldn't come home
That a lot of the attention in the US was for some distraction...for some kind of cover up

First and foremost: JMO

---------------------------------
xipp wrote:


She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 
-----------------------------------
WordsofWisdom  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:20 am         
As usual, you make statements and accusations with absolutely NO substance.

Back it up Bubba.

You have NOTHING to support your "beliefs", just innuendo and gossip and a storyline- the same story line that Beth and HMI uses. Its old and tired and a pack of lies.

You have made yourself irrelevant.

[carpe noctem]

WE NEED TO EDIT THAT GARBAGE OVER HERE FOR TIME!

Let me give it a whack.



IMO Renee seems to be ( snip ) a rat's ass.

 

[klaasend]

This post caught my attention at RU 
    
WordsofWisdom wrote:


IMO Renee seems to be a strong woman, that takes NO crap from anyone, and doesn't give a fat rats ass what others think. She also seems to be a woman with a lot of integrity. I have seen nothing to dispel that belief. In fact your constant banter about her enforces my belief that she is on to something.
-----------------
xipp  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am     
She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 

i seriously doubt she can spell the word, much less understand what it means.  either that or she's dumber and more gullible than anyone i know.  or maybe it's greed that drives her.
dennisintn

Words of Wisdom is an idiot!   According to her every picture of Natalee that has been posted is photo shopped.  She has posted all kinds of nasty stuff about Beth.  She has NO integrity and I would never trust anyone she recommended.

You can say that again!  I agree 100%!

[Observer]

Natalee was junkie.. That one kills me!   

We are dealing with some very sinister and low life human beings,with no regards to a murdered girl and her Family. All they care about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ To get that money they have to slander,lie and bash the victims and defend the Murderers and liars. Absolutely dispicable!

[carpe noctem]

Klaas,

I just recorded that old 2007 replay of NH Haunting Evidence.

I know most think they are fulla bulla  but,

I think it'll be good to TUBE it to keep the Nat Justice Train

moving on down the line!

Should I post any links to them here, and if yes, where would

be the most acceptable place?

[klaasend]

Klaas,

I just recorded that old 2007 replay of NH Haunting Evidence.

I know most think they are fulla bulla  but,

I think it'll be good to TUBE it to keep the Nat Justice Train

moving on down the line!

Should I post any links to them here, and if yes, where would

be the most acceptable place?

I think it's a great idea.  Why don't you go ahead and start a new thread for it.  Then if people want to discuss the show they can in that same thread. 

[carpe noctem]

Consider it done!

[Observer]

(Google Translation)
29
simmie Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 20:03

Dear Renee,
Then it seems to me the right time to see your findings demonstrate
There are so many broadcasters seems to me
And where o where Joran would sit still, someone any idea?
-------------------------------------
Renee Says:
juni 26th, 2008 at 21:19

   
#
30
Renee Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 21:19

@ Simmie
I have an idea… yes. but since there are scared monkeys watch, which earlier in the broadest terms, my texts have abused, I am very reluctant to become truths to be…. You have no idea what there is about me geroddeld. "I am by the family van der Sloot paid for the documents to make, I am the girlfriend of Paul van der Sloot, I'm there to Beth to break". For a few examples. All does not comply with the order. It touches me not personal but I do not want this nonsense the world runs.
Hence!

http://www.nwo-info.nl/2008/06/25/de-gangster-in-patrick-van-der-eem/#comment-3446

[klaasend]

(Google Translation)
29
simmie Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 20:03

Dear Renee,
Then it seems to me the right time to see your findings demonstrate
There are so many broadcasters seems to me
And where o where Joran would sit still, someone any idea?
-------------------------------------
Renee Says:
juni 26th, 2008 at 21:19

   
#
30
Renee Says:
June 26th, 2008 at 21:19

@ Simmie
I have an idea… yes. but since there are scared monkeys watch, which earlier in the broadest terms, my texts have abused, I am very reluctant to become truths to be…. You have no idea what there is about me geroddeld. "I am by the family van der Sloot paid for the documents to make, I am the girlfriend of Paul van der Sloot, I'm there to Beth to break". For a few examples. All does not comply with the order. It touches me not personal but I do not want this nonsense the world runs.
Hence!

http://www.nwo-info.nl/2008/06/25/de-gangster-in-patrick-van-der-eem/#comment-3446

OMG,    When did anyone at SM accuse Renee of being PVDS girlfriend, LOLOL. 

Yes, Renee your texts have been abused at SM