Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[Lala'sMom]

Kyle,

That Freebirds theory is the only thing I see at the moment. Because we aren't privy to the dossier much of everything is speculation and rumor or psychics. What we did see in the few PV'S much of it they lied about. There has been very little talk about a boat being used and who may have been involved in disposing of Natalee that can be considered fact. I'M sure TJ Ward,Dave Holloway and Bo Dietl have better info compared to what is on the internet.

is it worth a chance to talk to mos about their timeline for jvds that night.  they definitely have a better chance of verifying times and alibis and might be willing to share that information with persistence.  this is a different set of people you'd be dealing with and i really think mos would be willing to help in any way he could, particularly if he could do it without having to pay for it with media attention and static from the defense lawyers.  man to man always works best, in my experience.
dennisintn

Why doesn't someone just ask Jossy for some of this info...Mos would need to explain how he knew Natalee was in the ocean...just as how would van der Straaten know Natalee was dead.  The PTB will not help...they can't without incriminating their favorite sons.

[AZSunny]

Kyle,

That Freebirds theory is the only thing I see at the moment. Because we aren't privy to the dossier much of everything is speculation and rumor or psychics. What we did see in the few PV'S much of it they lied about. There has been very little talk about a boat being used and who may have been involved in disposing of Natalee that can be considered fact. I'M sure TJ Ward,Dave Holloway and Bo Dietl have better info compared to what is on the internet.

is it worth a chance to talk to mos about their timeline for jvds that night.  they definitely have a better chance of verifying times and alibis and might be willing to share that information with persistence.  this is a different set of people you'd be dealing with and i really think mos would be willing to help in any way he could, particularly if he could do it without having to pay for it with media attention and static from the defense lawyers.  man to man always works best, in my experience.
dennisintn

Why doesn't someone just ask Jossy for some of this info...Mos would need to explain how he knew Natalee was in the ocean...just as how would van der Straaten know Natalee was dead.  The PTB will not help...they can't without incriminating their favorite sons.

Lala is right!  Jossy has great time lines I think.  Have Tim ask Jossy, if that is not a comfortable conversation for you, Kyle!  You are in our prayers! 

[Altruist]

From Jane at BFN

01/03/2008 at 08:30 am in Department 69, Edward A. Ferns, Presiding. Motion to Dismiss (Motion for Stay of Order; Motion for Substitution of Personal Representative for Deceased Deft.; Case Management Conference; OSC RE: Plaintiffs' Failure to Appear on 12-7-07) - Not Held-Continued

Future Hearings:

02/05/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
(1) Motion Pro Hac Vice (Introduction of new Plaintiff Attorney)
(2) Motion to Dismiss (by Defense)
(3) Motion for Substitution of of Personal Representative for Deceased Defendant (replace Skeeters estate for Skeeters)
(4) Motion for Stay of Orders (Plaintiffs attempting to reverse Order to Compel)
(5) Case Management Conference
(6) OSC RE Failure to Appear on 12/7/07

02/29/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012. Motion to Compel ((2))

B.1     Pro Hac Vice a procedure necessary when an attorney is not an admitted member bar of the state of jurisdiction.  So this is either a Taco Bell type or an out of country type, that is if the state of California entertains attorneys from other countries.  So it looks like the "plaintiffs" are seeking to add an additional member to their "legal team" AKA agents of misdirection.

[AZSunny]

Pro Hac sort of sums it up, doesn't it?   

[Observer]

I was just thinking of Jan VDS,He knows exactly what happened to Natalee and where they buried her.No way would he help frame innocent people,break laws and risk his own neck if he didn't know what his friends the Van Der Sloots did with her.MO He was guiding people in the opposite direction. Problem is that he is very close friends of PVDS and will never tell. The only way he would ever tell is if they offered him a deal to avoid being in fricken prison where he belongs. We know Aruba doesnt make deals nor have they made any attempt of exposing any part of the cover up.

They could do this all anonymously,but they are basterds and its still in the Aruban Govts/AHATA'S best interest that she is never found. 31 Months in the ocean,I doubt there will be any forensic evidence unless she was shot,major head injury or they dumped evidence alongside of her. It's obvious they dont want to prosecute anyone or reveal the truth,but a anonymous tip where her remains could be found would do everyone a lot of good. But then again,this was a neandrathol investigation and they keep saying they cant prosecute without a body. If she is found we will all expect a trial and thats the last thing the Aruba wants.IMO

[Observer]

B.1     Pro Hac Vice a procedure necessary when an attorney is not an admitted member bar of the state of jurisdiction.  So this is either a Taco Bell type or an out of country type, that is if the state of California entertains attorneys from other countries.  So it looks like the "plaintiffs" are seeking to add an additional member to their "legal team" AKA agents of misdirection.

Could be another attorney from that same law firm in Chicago right? I wonder if they produced anymore documents like Judge Nit Wits letter said they would?

[Lala'sMom]

I was just thinking of Jan VDS,He knows exactly what happened to Natalee and where they buried her.No way would he help frame innocent people,break laws and risk his own neck if he didn't know what his friends the Van Der Sloots did with her.MO He was guiding people in the opposite direction. Problem is that he is very close friends of PVDS and will never tell. The only way he would ever tell is if they offered him a deal to avoid being in fricken prison where he belongs. We know Aruba doesnt make deals nor have they made any attempt of exposing any part of the cover up.

They could do this all anonymously,but they are basterds and its still in the Aruban Govts/AHATA'S best interest that she is never found. 31 Months in the ocean,I doubt there will be any forensic evidence unless she was shot,major head injury or they dumped evidence alongside of her. It's obvious they dont want to prosecute anyone or reveal the truth,but a anonymous tip where her remains could be found would do everyone a lot of good. But then again,this was a neandrathol investigation and they keep saying they cant prosecute without a body. If she is found we will all expect a trial and thats the last thing the Aruba wants.IMO

My point exactly. 

[Lala'sMom]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

[Kat_Gram]

I don't agree with the timeline of the Freebirds.
Why:
a.) Deepak was at work until about what ? Eleven ? that Monday night.
b.) It was still light outside that time of the evening.
Deepak met Joran at the Casino and there was something very hincky about the time line later that night. There was some missing time. If there was nothing to lie about later that evening, why lie ?  Andre Dos Santos' PV seemed about the most reliable and open as I don't believe he was under any influence to not tell the truth, he was just a bystander that Monday night.The truth could have been told and it could have been backed up by the witnesses he had who saw him in the casino.
For that reason, I think that the boat was launched later and it was done around the same time Beth was arriving.   
..ps I also don't buy the fish trap thing. That happened the Sunday and I just don't believe they were that organized up at that point. Some other container,
weighted down.The radar in Aruba, it is upgraded now, but it wasn't then. If a small boat went out just past the sandbar, why would it be an event worth noting at the time ? How long would it take in a SpeedPro to go and come back ? Ten minutes. Joran was moving between casinos for a reason.   

[Observer]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

That sounds like a tough task to expose. I wonder if that is why the FBI and our Govt are so quiet? If they are aware that Aruba is involved in dealings with N.Korea and Covering up Natalee's murder what are they waiting on?

[klaasend]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

There was an article - or some kind of meeting I believe in 2005 where Oduber and North Korea was present.  I don't remember exactly what the meeting was now but I remember we discussed it at the time. 

[Kat_Gram]

Ok, I can't turn the TV on because of Ms. Spears. I might become nauseated, so I rented some films, Munich and the Curse of Golden Flower ( subtitles ! !  )

[Lala'sMom]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

That sounds like a tough task to expose. I wonder if that is why the FBI and our Govt are so quiet? If they are aware that Aruba is involved in dealings with N.Korea and Covering up Natalee's murder what are they waiting on?

Well, to me a nuclear arms dealer would be more threatening than a mafia boss.  Both are dangerous, but I tend to think the North Koreans would operate on a take no prisoners basis when dealing with small fish on Aruba.

[Lala'sMom]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

There was an article - or some kind of meeting I believe in 2005 where Oduber and North Korea was present.  I don't remember exactly what the meeting was now but I remember we discussed it at the time. 

I must have missed it...what were Oduber and North Korea discussing, do you remember?  Makes sense to me that Chavez would certainly be interested in meeting this NK dude too.

[Magnolia]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

That sounds like a tough task to expose. I wonder if that is why the FBI and our Govt are so quiet? If they are aware that Aruba is involved in dealings with N.Korea and Covering up Natalee's murder what are they waiting on?

Well, to me a nuclear arms dealer would be more threatening than a mafia boss.  Both are dangerous, but I tend to think the North Koreans would operate on a take no prisoners basis when dealing with small fish on Aruba.

Somebody smarter than I am needs to research this.
MTR Gaming Group owns a large share of the Mid Pacific Bank
on Aruba.  Mid Pacific Bank does a large share of business
with the bank in Maucau where the US froze the assets of
North Korea to get North Korea to shut down their neculear plants.
I bet there is a Posner connection.

[Lala'sMom]

OK, just a thought...don't anyone throw anything at me....what if you could deal drugs and arms at the same time?  No one would bother you, because they would know you are untouchable...untouchable... I didn't say it...I just thought it.

[wreck]

I first was made aware of the North Korean Arms theory from Rob (where the hell is he anyways? -- I know some here despise him for some reason).
I STILL think there is some merit to this (or something equally as big) involving International Diplomacy/Security that is keeping the U.S. Government from making a big splash in Aruba just yet.

[klaasend]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

There was an article - or some kind of meeting I believe in 2005 where Oduber and North Korea was present.  I don't remember exactly what the meeting was now but I remember we discussed it at the time. 

I must have missed it...what were Oduber and North Korea discussing, do you remember?  Makes sense to me that Chavez would certainly be interested in meeting this NK dude too.

Lala's, Chavez was at the meeting and so was North Korea - the meeting was in China or someplace.  We were just saying how it figures Oduber would be there.  This was early in the case.

[Observer]

I left a msg to Rob Yesterday and he never got back to me. I called because others said he is MIA

[Kat_Gram]

Does any one else think she was taken to sea on the Monday night ?
And not in a cage ?
What time was that phone call from PVDS to Joran where there was the mix up as to where he was ? I think they were just getting back in from the water.
Where do the Gottenbos usually launch their boat from ? A SeaPro doesn't have to be launched from a marina ? Just a deserted beach where the water is shallow.  Walk in walk out.
I am not fixated on this, but Kyle has asked the question for a reason. Time, tides, weather conditons could be different from 7 to 8 pm / and much later, say 2 am. I would not like if just one reasonabe ( Freebirds ) theory was presented to Kyle.
And by the way, I did Google Kyle and he has an amazing CV.