Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

Please take a moment to watch and listen to the video above and remember why we are all here after almost 3 years. 

Man, I miss Robots!!

Me, too, Wreck.

Different pond?

++++++++++++++

>>>>SNIP

Police on Friday night used searchlights and cameras on the ground and from the air to look at areas of interest under the remaining water in the pond.

The search yielded nothing, authorities said. On Saturday morning, divers searched one spot in the middle of pond, but came up with nothing.

http://www.courttv.com/news/holloway/080205_ap.html

Me too....sigh...but, Congrats on being first!

Someone give CAPS a call. He hasn't posted in a week and he first told us of this pond search a month ago.

there's only one robots.  :smt027

Spock I saw Caps signed on last night(early morning) but He did not post and did not stay long... ::MonkeyConfused::

That article is from August 2, 2005.

it must be this complex Pita

(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/COMPLEXkopie.jpg?t=1210885421)

411 operator : hello Aruba 411 how can I help you?

Me : ah, yeah what's Capslockswizard's phone number?

411 operator : did you call the car rental earlier today too?

Me : ahhh no... that was someone else.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

411 operator : shouldn't you kids be in school... <callin' us up and monkeying around on the phone>

Me : lady, seriously, do you have Capslockwizard's phone number or not?

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

ummm yes I know.......

::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Caps is fine.

Maybe CAPS was out there digging.

Thanks Lala's! Has He told You anything You can share with Us? TIA

Must be....this is the date on that article from your post * Updated Aug. 2, 2005, 10:25 a.m. ET*

The pond in '05 was by the Racquet Club -- this is a different pond. The original pond could not ever drain completely because it was spring fed.

Which pond are we looking at ? The recent search ?
Yes, I miss the Rascally Robots also.

Why did Robots leave?

I think his last quote was something like "my work here is through". It was right during Joran's "confession".

But it's not over. Certainly he realizes that and should come back!
 ::MonkeyDance::
Robots, get back here!

Nothing at this time.

Posted/transcribed by Heli at RU - Tim Miller interview on Dana Pretzer 5/14/08:

Dana Pretzer Show
May 14, 2008

Transcribed from Podcast of the Dana Pretzer Show

Dana:

When you think of Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch of course you know they're a high profile organization that will go out and search for loved ones, missing persons and of course we know them mostly from the search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

Tim Miller, of course, is the President of Texas Equusearch and he's going back to Aruba with four other members of Texas Equusearch but they're going to be searching for an aruban and I know that sounds a little bit
different but I thought I would bring Tim Miller on to talk about that and I think Tim doesn't care where you're from if there's a way to search for ya, he's gonna go look for ya.

Tim, welcome back to the program.

Tim Miller:

Well, thanks Dana, it's been awhile since I talked to ya, and that's not saying that we (inaudible)

Dana:

I'll bet. Going back to Aruba must bring mixed emotions for you but I'm sure you and your group are focused on trying to find Jose Tromp, I hope I'm pronouncing that properly.

Tim:

Right, and actually, Jose's mother contacted us by e-mail, early, early last week and it was just heartbreaking. I read her e-mail and she wants help and her son Jose actually worked for the prison system, he was saving
his money up to go to law school, he wanted to become an attorney and on November 27, Jose disappeared and I called her up immediately and I told her that, I said bottom line, I know that for a fact, you love Jose as much as Dave and Beth loved Natalee and God loved them both the same and you know, yes we will help you.

LE needs to be informed that we will help you, you know we're not gonna go behind their back, we certainly want their co-operation, we're not out to slander Aruba by no means. She's just been really disappointed it's been this long and nobody's helped her so she actually contacted the Minister of Justice and I got a copy of that e-mail that she sent him and then she contacted LE and they feel as though we've got some resources that might be valuable in another missing case in Aruba so right now our plans are to fly over there on Sunday and give them a week of this. Of course, that's what we said when we went on Natalee's case too and we know how far that went.

Dana:

Exactly

Tim:

So you know, we got us another family in Aruba but it doesn't matter where they're at. You know there's families all over the world when they've got a missing child they all go through the same pain. And you know what Maria said, she said she just wants to know what happened to Natalee also. She also knows what that family's going through and all the efforts we put into Natalee's case. You know she called us angels and she said she went to our website ... "yesterday my husband, Humphrey and I were discussing Texas Equusearch your organization is doing wonderful work but also expensive one and we need to know what our contribution will be"

I called her back and told her, you know you don't have to pay that, you've got a son that's missing. We never charge the families, we never ask them for anything and she said "we do not have a lot of money but we will do everything we can, please tell us what to do and how to do it." She said "I read some of the stories of missing persons on your website. You people are angels and I feel so sad, not only because my son is missing but because no one cares when someone is missing in Aruba."

So here's somebody from Aruba that feels as though nobody cares and you know the citizens of Aruba treated us so good while we was there. (inaudible) talked to many, many, many people and her friends over in Aruba and so I feel comfortable that we can go ahead and take four people over there, get residents of Aruba to join us as volunteers in this search and do what we can do. There's a lot of areas in Aruba to search. It's a small island but there's still a lot of areas to search and you know, see if we can put something together for this family.

I think we all know as small as this island is, and it's only my feelings and I've been wrong many times before, but as small as that island is, I'd say it's nearly impossible for a 30 year old man to take off on November 27 and still be missing and nobody see him if he just chose to leave. Unfortuntaely, Mom certainly feels as though something happened to him and if so, we want to go ahead and put every effort we can put into it and go see if we can get him located and you know, make a difference and let Aruba know, you know that this isn't about Aruba

Dana:

Exactly

Tim:

It's something that one of our citizens suffered and we're there for you too so, this is not a big show about Natalee. Our hearts go broken over Natalee and we're not done with that search and we're there for one reason now. When we was there before that one reason was Natalee; this time that reason is for Jose.

Dana:

Absolutely! Again, your organization goes above and beyond and it doesn't matter where the location is or the past was; it's important to try and find Jose.

Tim, can you give us an update on Natalee? We haven't heard anything for awhile.

Tim:

Well, you know the update on Natalee is we actually, Louis Schaefer the fellow who spent 3/4 of a million dollars on that last search (inaudible) three weeks and we ended up there for three months instead. This thing just went way, way over budget, probably about $1.8 Million.

You know we located something on December 29; it was sent off to the lab. We still don't know exactly what it was. All we know is there was a press conference that said the items that were found inside that crab trap did not match Natalee's DNA. Now does that mean we possibly found somebody else or what? You know, we still don't know but the other side of that, we've also got over 170 targets that were located with the sonar equipment over there. Many of them things are 800 or 900,1,000 feet deep so the plans were the civilian group that was there with their boat, they did an outstanding job if you want to know the truth and how dedicated they were, it's just beyond words but at this point in time they're talking about bringing in a 360 foot boat out of Trinidad that has much larger ROV equipment on it. It actually has saturated air divers that can go down 1,000 feet and send the ROV down to physically look at every objects of those 170+ objects.

I still predict that one of them is going to be Natalee Unfortuntaely the thing that's holding that up is funding. You know, these companies aren't looking to make any money, they're certainly spending money but they, we got to take care of some of their expenses on that kind of stuff.

A lot of things holding that up too is the political, electioneering there's just been hundreds of millions of dollars donated to our politicians out there which is one reason donations aren't coming in. The other reason is the economy is bad in the States right now, so even (inaudible) this is the worst year we went through so far; the country's stuck in recession and organizations like us are not at the top of the pole when it comes to donations, so we're certainly struggling trying to get this together but I know the day will come when we'll get that boat over there.

We don't think any of those 170+ targets are going to go anywhere, so we're still working on that. I know Dave's going to come, we're going to be back in again Dana because I just feel as though one of those targets is Natalee.

Dana:

You know we all hope and pray for that and I'd like you to give your website information out for anyone that's out there listening who's willing to help out and the smallest contribution I'm sure, would be appreciated.

Tim:

How often are these aerial photo's updated?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/POND21.jpg)

Here is the latest photo:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dam_national_1.jpg)

I had the impression that google earth was updated often, could this be the same "pond"?

Robots didn't really leave he's been posting all along on the front page of SM.  I don't know why he decided to only post on the FP.  According to Robots he is "under cover"  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Thanks for bringing that over Klaas! 

I thought Google Earth was only updated approx every 2 years.

 ::MonkeyHaHa:: I have missed him too, I've even gone back to some of his posts when I needed a laugh...he could always make me smile. 

I should really go back to following the FP more often! Glad he's still with us!

Me too!  ::MonkeyDance::

Hint - he's not using the nickname Robots on the front page.  Problem is, if I tell you his front page nickname I'll blow his cover  ::MonkeyCool::

I don't care what moniker he uses -- I bet I would recognize his posts!  ::MonkeyWink::

Yes, you would  ::MonkeyWink::

I have seen some postings on the FP that I am pretty sure are by Robots.
He can't disguise himself that well and anyone who read here alot and was a fan of Robots
can figure it out.   

I think Robots is a victim of the disinformation campaign too.   ::MonkeyWaa::

imho

Google updates their imagery based in several factors: usage, variability, population density, and available imagery.  In places such as Las Vegas, usership is very high and new imagery is often spliced in to keep up with construction and new land use.  In rural areas 2-5 year old imagery is common.  In areas where there is more frequent cloud cover, once better imagery is acquired with lower cloud cover they will update the imagery.  Also, they use different imagery at different scales of observation.  This is a common technique when one image is good, but serious artifacts exist in the data.  Sometimes they take a recent good image with a few clouds and remove the clouds by cutting out the clouds with a supervised/unsupervised classification and back-lapping other imagery so the holes are filled in.  Different types of imagery are used in different areas.  In high interest areas, Ikonos or Quickbird imagery is used.  In Siberia... it's probably Landsat7.   

I worked in an advanced remote sensing and spatial analysis lab for a while working on processing and analysis of satelite imagery.

Kyle, what is your assessment of the case at this point? Is it possible that ALE has forensic evidence from these water searches?

Fabric and DNA remains were found in the fish trap, yet we have been told nothing.
This pond was drained and searched by Dutch experts, yet we have been told nothing.

Wow.  I am always amazed at how far things have come in such a short time.  We're all just a google away!   ::MonkeyLaugh::

Klaas.....O/T

Re: Laura E. Lenz FOUND SAFE  ::MonkeyDance::

Could you please mark it when you get time? Thanks.

OE

Did you see the 3 new photos we got today?   Is it the same pond you scanned?....please let me know....it's driving me crazy....

TIA...Destiny

This is from August 2005, correct?

I can recognize his posts anywhere.  I have read him on the FP and immediately knew who it was. ::cartwheel:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Destiny,

Nice job on getting those pictures..Thanks!  ::MonkeyCool::

WHOA---I am IMPRESSED o.e.   ::MonkeyCool::

YW.....Des ;-)

Here ya go OE..I bet they wish they had your equipment on those early searches :wink2:

(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2033/18212938ud0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
 

Searching with sonar
Volunteer member of Texas EquuSearch, Ralph Baird, of Houston, reads a map of Aruba's waters during a sonar search for missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway who disappeared on this Dutch Caribbean Island on May 30, off the northwestern coast of Aruba, Sunday, June 26, 2005.
(AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch)

Jun 27, 2005

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

Yes, and carry her through the pond to a remote area, and lose your shoes in the muck.  I don't think a person would leave a visible trail. 

I thought about the same thing Destiny.  And that little pathway gave them a privacy zone from the street.  Makes me sick to think about it. 

Thanks Destiny for reaching out and going the extra mile to get the info.

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation.  If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled.  Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems. 
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests.  All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved.  I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search. 

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them. 
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case. 
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all. 
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.

I trust most of the people now leading the investigation.  That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most.  If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time.  How much time?  I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess.  The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it.  If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good.  If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.

Yes, it is certainly the same pond that we searched in February.

It is frustrating not having the right tools and people for the job.  Thanks for sharing the pic and info.  I hadn't seen it before.

~K

Thanks for the information Kyle, we appreciate it!   ::MonkeyCool::

Destiny, (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Smileys/smiley54.gif) (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn82/texasmom_55/Smileys/electricguitar.gif)

THANK YOU OE!!!!!!!!!!!!

KLAAS....hope you are feeling much...much...better!

May I ask another favor of you....can you bring the 3 new photos from the last thread...over to here...I don't know how...I keep flipping between 2 threads to look at things...

TIA...Destiny

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dam_national_2.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dam_national_1.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dam_national.jpg)

YW...AZ...and...Tex...I told you all I was better at *calling* than writing...but our article still will be published...Thanks to ALL who helped with that!

Destiny ;-)

Thank You San...

I can't help but wonder if something was removed from that pond at the spot where we see the bottom chipped away. It certainly appears the CSI/searchers did that! Possible trace evidence? Imprints? Also that is one shallow pond!

I wonder if that tire was used for anything?  That pond seems clean, I would have expected more trash.

I remember early on some posting that Aruba has some kind of shifting sand or mud, not exactly like quicksand.  IIRC, things were buried quite quickly, they sank in the mud.

I think I remember this from the pond that was drained previously.  Much discussion about the wet and dry seasons.

I was wondering that myself WG....

I can't remember who, earlier today said that they thought they saw...in photo #2....above, and to the right of the *chipped* area, he saw another chipped area...I think it was Wreck....my eyes are not that good...

That is what I'm thinkin'!
I think it is a good sign that only a small area was lifted - maybe it means they found what they were looking for. No need to dig up the whole pond. I also was thinking that pond was REALLY shallow, but maybe the grass there grows really quick once exposed.

Speaking of Mud..

All covered in mud....you sure as sh*t don't get ALL COVERED IN MUD...from the ocean....

Well, it was deep enough to float a boat with two large men, and drop the sonar into it.  I am betting it was at least 6 feet deep.  Yes, the grass grows really fast once exposed.  As I said earlier, it is the same here during the monsoons in July and August. 

Exactly! I think they found something right in that spot..Either a imprint of something that was there,evidence or just something they found suspicious. That Ground Penetrating Radar could clear that small pond quickly and would be no need to dig anywhere unless they saw something. If anything was in that pond they found it for sure.

*******...you are right..I completely forgot about the ground penetrating radar!! they used that at the VDS house search, right??

*******...I'm gonna take your positive attitude....and run with it.....

Also remember that the winds in Aruba are always blowing, and with the wind the seeds would quickly depoist in a damp pond bed and sprout within a week to 10 days.  I am still wondering if it were drained, or dried up from the heat. 

Dogs just don't seem to like Joran...

The authorities should have asked if anyone saw a "MokoThing" walking around Aruba that night. 

I wonder how many called the tip line about a mud covered person.  Joran wouldn't look like a 'boy' due to his size and condition.  However, he would look like an older man covered in mud.  jmho

I agree.

Yes, they also had the opportunity to watch and see if anyone had an  interest in that pond after Persistence left.

That spot is somewhere around 20 feet from the edge,about the distance where 2-3 people would drop something heavy while walking on the bottom. It is also right in the middle where it is probably the deepest on that part of the pond.. If Natalee was found in that spot they would chip away at the bottom to get all the trace evidence because after 3 years much of her would have deteriorated except for the bones. Because it is so shallow that will be very tough on any DNA found because of the heat,but I suspect the Mud would preserve evidence nicely. I am curious just how deep it was in that spot, because if it was less than 4 feet then the chances are very slim they would put dispose of Natalee there. It's been 3 years now and apparently it has never gone dry but I bet they lose quite a bit of water in the dry season.

We have been let down so many times and I would suspect this could be another dead end. However that area that was chipped away has me intrigued,along with the witness and the manpower that searched this pond.

I wonder if it's possible that they removed car parts?  Seats?  Headliner?  Carpet? 

I forgot to add "trunkliner" - parts that are easily replaced.  The Kalpoe and other vehicles were not taken immediately.  Plenty of time to replace parts. 

New parts or parts from a junk yard.  Replace the whole car.  Who would know?

Junk/salvage yards in SA, USA, and the world.  All at Aruba's doorstep.

Bring the parts in by boat if needed.  No need to ship or go through customs.

imho

I wonder if any of the google images over the past three years would show something in the shallow water of that pond?  Can those images be retrieved?

Maybe show an area that grass didn't grow when dry?

The F-16 flyover data, was that reviewed with this pond in mind?

Just posted on the front page of SM  ::MonkeyWink::

PAULUS IS A MURDERER wrote:


murdering coward = PAULUS VANDER SLOOT

murdering pig = JORAN VANDER SLOOT

give joran to a few people i know and the truth would be known in less than 30 seconds
guaranteed

stop putzing around and start water boarding


May 15, 8:17 PM

They most definetly did..Hopefully it was in the spot where Paul poured that concrete in June 2005. I have pictures of them using GPR last year in that search. That appears to be much smaller pond then the Moko by Jorans house and from what I gather it was drained in the last few days. It looks pretty dry so I do not think that was all done today..It would also probably take a full day at least to use GPR on that entire pond to clear it from something being buried. It's almost exactly 3 years later so the water level should be similar to 2005.

That spot could also be from someone throwing evidence and because it is so shallow that would be my guess. When they drained the pond by Jorans they found a womens handbag weighted down by rocks..Obviously someone didnt want it to be found and the same could be true here with something else. I could picture them dumping a barrel or a cage in that spot but not if it was less then 4 feet depth.

My *feeling* is...that OE will not tell us more about the pond...as an example...in my business...we use a term...K.I.S.S.   Kiss=Keep It Simple Stupid....and the Japanese culture has an attitude of...*less is more*...

I HIGHLY RESPECT OE!!!...he is doing his *job* *perfectly*....just remember, when he gives us anything.....LESS IS MORE....

Hope this makes sense to you all...Des...

It's hard to get worked up about ANY development anymore. OE seems to say that this new search is DIRECTLY tied to the side sonar search of this pond before they left Aruba. I don't think they would drain the pond and bring in 40+ CSI guys to look for car parts, shoes and the like. JMO

OK Klaas...you posted this...so I'll let this *personal* fart out...

I think/feel that Paulus is a seriel killer...who has trained his *spawn* to follow in his footsteps....ya know...the Family that plays together, stays together...but Paulus didn't take into account...his spawn's age.....and what the spawn would do with this new found knowledge...

No...I didn't just say that...did I?....

From memory, there are also flip flops, a drivers license, and cash to consider. 

I should apologize for my rampant speculation, I know it is upsetting to those at other boards, but I go with what comes to mind.

Not to mention clothing and size 14 k-swiss  ::MonkeyWink::

AHHH!  Seems like old times.

Yes it is hard to get worked up about anything except the obvious and that would be new arrests including PVDS or Natalee being found. So many dissapointments throughout the last three years and I can tell we all feel the same and are ready for another dissapointment :(

OE does seem to say that now,but remember there is a credible witness who met with Mos and specificly pointed at this pond. The witness obviously is being taken very seriously. From what I gather the witness thinks Natalee was buried here and not just evidence,it just looks so small and shallow to me is all :( This witness appears to be a different person then the Maria we just read about in Diario so hopefully one of them is the real deal.

It's the shoes....the shoes!  That would be easy to lose in there if dumping something...just because it was put there in 2005 does not mean it's still there.  If they drained the pond then I say they located something...if that is a natural occurrence then that pond would not have had much more in it in 2005 than it does now...the question is was it drained by someone or did it just dry up on it's own?

Honestly, we dont know for sure they had 40+ CSI searching that pond. We have two people saying they heard from someone 40-60 csi were involved. Thats not the same thing. What I would like to see, is a statement from someone that saw 40+ investigators searching that pond. It could be only a few people were there or it could be many people were there. It would be hard to hide 40-60 people from the press. One only has to remember that many CSI at the Sloot home and all the support equipment and press that became involved.

I suspect a pumping crew and five or so people were involved because this was kept under the radar. I also think if something was found it will leak out in the next month or so. If we dont hear anything by that time, well, its likely nothing of case value was found.

If a body were moved multiple times, there are many potential witnesses.

Someone wrote recently that it's easy to hide something in an area that has already been searched.

*******...I promise...I'll *call* and find out the *real* info on the person named *Maria* in the article...did you also notice that the Mother of Jose...the missing young man that TES is going to search for...is named Maria....I did...and wonder....

Makes sense too Me .....You are a Smart Lady...Miss Destiny...IMHO  ::MonkeyCool:: ::MonkeyWink::

I did see that and thought about that about a hour ago  ::MonkeyWink:: However Maria is a very commen name in central and south america..lol..My sister in law's family from costa rica named all the girls  Maria   ::MonkeyRoll::

Caps said he owed money and was killed by the Bifons..That appears to be unlikely as Tim told us last night he was saving his money for law school while he worked in the prison system. I am happy to see this Family reach out to TES and I can tell from the pictures they loved him dearly.

Hold it, who said the MOKO pond was being drained as well???

But...I got an email...that make them the same....I'll let you know tomorrow...

Who knows what was found in that pond?

If a body was moved around for days, isn't it possible that it started to degrade at some point?   Would those moving the body maintain it under optimal conditions?  Refrigeration?  Would they worry about getting caught?

When there was speculation about the body in the basin, the position of many of the "identifiable features" were often a point of discussion. 

Heavy duty containment would be needed at some point in time.  Aruba is hot and the pond is.  imho

Couldn't a body have fallen into pieces?  Maybe some left behind?

I sometimes think the Bifron posted at a few forums.  mo

had computer problems for awhile, but I wonder who coould have authored such a statement???? ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink:: ::cartwheel::

No one..I didn't write that clearly..lol The pond in Monserat is the only Pond I have heard that is being drained. Judging by how dry the bottom looks I do not think it was drained today,but in the last few days.IMO

I was under the impression from Caps that the pond had been drained over a period of a few weeks.

Now that would make things quite interesting if true!!!!!  ::MonkeyEek::

Ok thanks that would make sense then and also explain why they had it chained off. I remember Caps saying there was no activity there but it would only take a few to drain it and it wouldn't cause much attention.

So the pond that was called MOKO was the one that the locals ran TES out of when it was being searched back in 2005? Is that Correct? The pond that Des has the pictures of was also searched but nothing was found the first time...So what better place to hide something than a place that had already been searched.....Joran said in the confession tape IIRC "She will never be found".....

Correct and I am not sure of the details of that Pond except they ruled it out apparently. It's where Joran dumped his dog that he killed before Natalee went to Aruba.

Joran also said he was lucky Natalee wasn't found. Which leads me to believe they were close and they already searched or were prevented from searching where she was in those early searches.

It is my understanding that the pond in Monserat (today's pics) was never searched at all before the side sonar scan in February. 

This is the second Pond they drained including the Pond by the Raquetball CLub in July/Aug 2005. We know they also searched the Pond by Jorans house in the beginning with Scuba Divers.OE said they searched this Pond because it was one of the last Ponds not to be cleared or searched and they had down time due to the conditions. You can judge for yourself if there was more to why they scanned this Pond before they left.

::MonkeyEek:: Yes, that would be quite interesting!

Thanks OB....Really makes Me sad to think of what They did to Her....The Sorry SOB's  ::MonkeyWaa::

Thank TM!

You're welcome Hotping! 

Whats all this about?

Solo Di Pueblo 5/15/08

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7848/misierdx4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Looks interesting....but I don't understand enough of it to even venture a guess...
come across....... ::MonkeyHaHa::

I could guess but I'll pass on this one,,Good Night all..Come Across  ::MonkeyCool::

Comment by AmericaninAruba | June 13, 2005, 1:10 pm

Van der lsoot says to the security guard that was jailed “that they left him at his house with natalee still in the car he exchanged emails with her and they took off (leaving JOran at home). The story is somethign that the 3 boys made up at home by the pool” adn now other kids also said that on monday Joran walked out into the woods by the school and stayed a while…maybe that was the 2 boys teling him about the “story”to tell?? and also here on aruba it is known that the cousins of the 2 Kalpoe boys are “dangerous” people who knows if they have soemthign to do with this?? They own a car rental here and they say they moved to aruba because they were bad in suriname and apparently they are moving form aruba to the US now

Decoding Peter de Vries’ Report: The Truth Amidst Joran’s Lies

Dutch investigative reporter Peter de Vries intends to reveal via Dutch television station SBS 6 on Feb. 3 Joran van der Sloot’s supposed new confession apparently made while he was secretly caught on tape by a de Vries associate working under cover. On his Web site, de Vries claims, “Case Natalee Holloway—Solved.” Not so fast.

On Feb. 1, Fox News commentator Geraldo Rivera released an early summary of de Vries’ findings. While de Vries’ work is certainly important, judging from Geraldo’s report, the Dutchman has made a serious error in taking Joran’s confession at face value. Prosecutors are in the same danger. And his report could be confusing to the ocean search team now seeking Natalee’s remains off the coast of Aruba. We can avoid that confusion by carefully reading the valuable messages we’ll find by decoding Joran’s thoughtprints contained in de Vries’ secret recordings. In other words, amidst Joran’s unquestionable lies we will find the truth about what caused Natalee’s death and where her body was placed. This is reminiscent of Deepak Kalpoe’s invaluable email of June 4, 2005. There, amidst his cover-up story, he revealed the truth about their assault on Natalee and the disposition of her body, a truth which has been reiterated by all three suspects between the lines of the falsehoods uttered during police interviews.


Now let’s consider de Vries’ so-called revelation. Supposedly, a “new friend” of Joran’s was secretly a plant who used a wire and a secret camera to eventually capture Joran on tape admitting his involvement in Natalee’s death. Joran told this man that while having sex with Natalee on the beach—completely voluntary on her part—that suddenly she suffered a cardiac arrest and died. Joran also reportedly said that Natalee had used drugs that night and implied the cardiac arrest occurred due to the drugs. At that point, he swims the body out into the ocean at a particular place and releases her, knowing that she will either wash up or be taken out to sea and be devoured by various predators.


Don’t believe for a minute that Joran is telling us the whole truth. He has previously confessed to various parts of the same story, always gradually giving up bits and pieces of the story on the surface. For example, he first reported sexual contact with Natalee in the backseat of Deepak’s Honda which he later changed to consensual sexual contact with her on the beach but no intercourse. He said he left her alone on the beach. Now he has progressed to saying he had intercourse with her and she died.


We know that in “confessions” to friends, family and fellow inmates, criminals routinely tell only part of the truth. Notice particularly how this new “confession” continues to favor Joran—the sex was voluntary and Natalee basically died as a result of her own decision to use drugs. Above all, he remains as innocent and lily-white as the driven snow—except of course for his decision to dispose of the body. We can remain sure of one clear fact—Joran is basically an inveterate liar, except that his deeper mind is indeed telling us the secret truth. Joran again confirms the same story that all three suspects have repeatedly told between the lines.


Now we glean the truth again by decoding Joran’s new confession.

1—Clearly he confirms that Natalee died during sexual intercourse. This matches my thoughtprint profile of Deepak’s June 4, 2005 email which showed she died in the midst of a brutal gang rape committed by the three suspects.


2—Joran confirms that Natalee died suddenly and fell unconscious due to a cardiac event. This indeed matches how Natalee suddenly died after aspirating and choking during the rape while accidentally being prevented from vomiting. Indeed Natalee suddenly quit breathing and her heart suddenly stopped beating as a result.


3—Joran confirms that drugs contributed to Natalee’s death. This matches the truth of the matter in that alcohol (which of course is a drug) and likely Ecstasy slipped into her drink contributed to her nausea which was exacerbated by the emotional trauma of the rape (vomiting is actually a rather common event during rapes). Joran and his pals had routinely utilized alcohol and drugs to get girls to go along with their late-night plans.


4—Joran confirms that they indeed disposed of her body in the ocean after transporting her some distance out. Certainly the thoughtprint profile (revealed in my book, “Into The Deep”) confirms that the suspects sailed the corpse out into the ocean by boat whereupon they dumped it.


5—Joran confirms that the body is not far out into the ocean. This matches the thoughtprint profile where Deepak makes plain that Natalee’s body is discoverable.


6—Joran confirms that the take-off point from which the suspects launched the boat with Natalee’s dead body aboard was almost certainly Fisherman’s Huts (see below). This is confirmed by his admission that he was on the beach with Natalee when she died. (Already he has depicted himself with Natalee on the beach near Fisherman’s Huts and may do so again in the de Vries tapes.) In his tape-recorded confession Joran likely will try to describe a different take-off point into the ocean with Natalee’s body, but we must revisit my profile which reveals that Fisherman’s Huts was indeed the point of departure. (This is particularly important since Deepak communicated that once into the ocean the boat went straight out before dumping the body. See my January 13, 2008 post.)


7—Joran’s idea that Natalee’s body may have been consumed by ocean predators match perfectly the thoughtprint profile where both Joran and Deepak admit that they were “sharks,” sexual and aggressive predators who destroyed Natalee.


8—Joran confirms that there are still two possibilities as regards Natalee’s body—either it will be discovered or continue to remain in the ocean. Clearly all three suspects, particularly Deepak, have unconsciously encouraged the ocean search for Natalee’s body, strongly suggesting it’s discoverable. 


9—In summary, Joran confirms the identical story which all three suspects have told all along between the lines.


We must consider certain other facts in Joran’s new confession. Once again he is attempting to spin a cover-up story amidst his pressure to confess. Clearly his conscience is driving him to partially confess, a process from which he obtains some relief. He continues to show that he simply cannot live with the consuming guilt that is eating him up. Note again that his taped confession basically lets him off the hook.


Also he continues to spin the only plausible theory which can be accepted by followers of the case—that he acted alone and had sexual contact with a cooperative and willing Natalee. No one would believe that the three suspects were all with Natalee until the end without immediately being highly suspicious of a group sexual assault. Certainly no one would believe that Natalee willingly participated in group sex.

Apart from my profile of the case other facts clearly point to a group assault/aspiration death/ocean-drop scenario. No one witnessed Joran on the beach alone with Natalee—or with any of the three suspects on the beach—simply because the event never happened although they did dispose of Natalee’s body by taking her over the beach on the way to the ocean. There was a break-in at Fisherman’s Huts that night. A knife went missing along with a large fishing cage, a perfect device in which to load a body into a boat and take it out into the ocean. Such an escapade would involve several people.

Importantly, two of Joran’s best friends—Koen and Sander Gottenbos—had a speedboat moored in the Marriott marina next to Fisherman’s Huts. Sander admitted in a police interview that he offered Joran a ride in his boat the day of Natalee’s disappearance—a statement that clearly connected Joran to the boat that day. Strikingly, on the day after Natalee disappeared, the Gottenbos family removed the boat from the water (though the boys had been regularly using it several days a week), sold the boat not long afterwards and moved within the year to the U.S. (Georgia) with Koen attending college in Holland.  (Some have reported the entire family moved to Holland. Importantly, thoughtprint decoding of Sander’s police interview strongly suggested he was involved in disposing of Natalee’s body and very guilt-ridden as a result.)


The Concern over Taking Joran’s Confession Literally

If they completely buy Joran’s new confession, the authorities will remain puzzled as to what truly happened to Natalee Holloway. The danger of course will be they come to believe him in toto and thus dismiss the evidence that the Kalpoes, Paulus van der Sloot and the Gottenbos boys were all involved in the crime or its cover-up.


Additionally, the ocean search team can similarly be misled about the body’s location. The searchers could swing to the opposite extreme and ignore his valuable communication which reinforces that they are indeed on the right path. If all concerned see the matching consistent ideas/thoughtprints, however, the authorities can resolve their confusion. (Unfortunately I have little hope that police and prosecutors will embrace this approach, except for a certain member of the prosecutor’s staff who sent the FBI to authenticate my profile in order to use it in their legal system). Most importantly, John Silvetti’s ocean search team should be encouraged when they understand Joran is providing them the identical specific instructions that Deepak Kalpoe did.


Joran’s Reaction to His Confession

After being confronted about the news of de Vries’ secret tapes, Joran made some very revealing comments. As I expected, he claimed he’d been lying when he made the comments to the undercover man. He was quoted by a reputable Dutch television show, “It is true I told someone. Everybody will see it Sunday. That is what he wanted to hear, so I told him what he wanted to hear.” Decoding Joran’s comments, we find this message amidst his denial: “it is true.” Denial is often a classic way of presenting the hidden truth. His repetition of the phrase about telling “what he wanted to hear” suggests Joran’s own hidden need to tell the truth, his own deep need to hear himself say that he did it. Certainly we can see the pressure building in him to confess in recent weeks.


Finally, Joran said, “It is stupid, it is so stupid, it is really stupid.” He cannot get over how stupidly he has behaved—first in leading the assault on Natalee, and now how he has “stupidly” confessed. But his deeper intelligence, his conscience which must speak, certainly specializes in “stupid confessions” which inadvertently contain the unadulterated truth. 

forensicthoughtprints.com

I agree but I do have to wonder why they waited so long to investigate this pond IF the side sonar picked up anything suspicious back in february?I also don't think that paulus would be stupid enough to let joran hide anything in a pond so shallow right there on land.Why dispose of Natalee's body way out in the ocean(if that's what happened)with not much chance of being found and leave ANY evidence in a shallow pond right under investigaters noses?

Quote Karma...
I agree but I do have to wonder why they waited so long to investigate this pond IF the side sonar picked up anything suspicious back in february?I also don't think that paulus would be stupid enough to let joran hide anything in a pond so shallow right there on land.Why dispose of Natalee's body way out in the ocean(if that's what happened)with not much chance of being found and leave ANY evidence in a shallow pond right under investigaters noses?

Good Morning...I am wondering if they were looking for the shoe as Caps has suggested. Driver's license, room key card...

I do recall something from Beth about a shoe. Foggy on this...was it a bloody shoe? With all the shoe talk of a while back, I am not sure if Dompig said one shoe or a pair of shoes.

Quote Pita from the previous thread...
VIP Club and Indo Restaurant   17 Noord
Matty Apartments   15A Noord


Quote from: CapsLockWizard
The Night in question, Natalee was brought here.

The pace is called Matty Appartments. There are 6 Apratment in a long row

The Aprtments do not have a number since noboy lives there permanent. The Address is Noort 15-A

It is behind a house and accesavle form the main road, almost 150 meters The Lekker Restaurant.

The night in question, They would not have gone to the WhiteHouse Apartment since it only accept couples and notting else. no group parties. For Paprty one need to use the WhiteHouse Cocktail Lounge.


Now manage the Matty Apartments.

Heidweiller   Carlos R   4/15/1955   Paramaribo   Noord 15A
Heidweiller   Lilian   12/16/1960   Paramaribo   Noord 15A
Heidweiller   Lyndon D   11/12/1964   Paramaribo   Noord 15A

All these people are from Surinam. The guy at the door / office looks like a Hindu


This is a location of where they have gone. That nght. Movie was made in this appartment. Now which Apartment did they use. I do not know. but my guess would be the last one all the way in the back.

Now if you have to make 2 hr movie and she died after that, it would be easy to get rid of the body right there in the murky pool of Monserat. It is just across the street.and the cleaning of the appartment would have been easy since it is not in view of the street. The house was dusted.

the XTC and the DNA is just accoss from each other.

I still need a name for the escort that provided the service for the deflowering of forbidden fruits that Quido Wever  is part off and the so is Julia Renfro.


Johan ...I am not sure we have the right apartments in the map you posted. Caps says there are 6 in a row, behind a house and across the street from the pond. He also says that no-one lives there permanently, and your complex looks a little large for that.

Not very good with maps or pics, so any help to understand this would be appreciated.
 
 

Good morning
The shoe started out as one shoe with blood on it.That came from Beth's notes.There was even talk about joran trying to BUY one shoe to match the one that was not missing lol
The the shoe turned into a pair of shoes(per dompig I think).I really think the whole shoe thing is bs.So if they do find joran's shoe/s,Natalee's ID or anything that belonged to Natalee,what will they do with it?It sure won't be enough to convict anyone.Even if they find her body IMO that will only give Beth and Dave peace of mind and they will be able to properly bury her but even then........they won't be able to convict anyone.Sorry to be so pessimistic but that's what I think.

I agree -- bringing Natalee home is the only thing we can hope and pray for. Sadly, "Justice"  ( in a judicial sense) will never happen in my opinion.

Thanks Karma for the refresher on the shoe. I thought the bloody shoe came from Beth.

I agree that there won't be enough to convict anyone.

The peace of mind for Beth, Dave and their families is what I am hoping for.

MOMOHIO  here a shot ( pond area )


(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/johan555/POND_COMPLEXkopie.jpg?t=1210941806)

I think there is some car rental info in the Shango thread. I will see if I can find it...Not sure how long ago it was posted...

Here is one that Pita posted...says here is another...so will look and see if there is anymore around ...last I checked the Registry was down...that was a couple of weeks back....Thanks Pita...


The Misier's own several car rental companies on the island.  Here's another....Janira also owns the V.I.P. Club.

QUALITY CAR RENTAL, TOURS AND BOAT SERVICES N.V. 
 
Business address NOORD 17, NOORD 
Legal form  LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY 
Name of the company  QUALITY CAR RENTAL, TOURS AND BOAT SERVICES N.V. 
Statutory seat  ARUBA 
Date of incorporation  18 FEBRUARY 1999 
Last amendment in the articles  5 MAY 2000 
         
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD: 
 
BAIDJNATH MISIER-KELKBOOM, JANIRA FRANCINA; 
Residing in  ALTO VISTA 76-B, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 30 JUNE 1971 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  MANAGING DIRECTOR 
Effective  25 FEBRUARY 1999 
Authority  RESTRICTED 
   

Here is the other one Pita was referring to...Thanks again Pita!

The Misier Car rental business in Aruba

http://www.american-car-rental.com/american/home.do

Johan...still looking at the map...Thanks...Was the number in your email about Noord number 2 or 3?  TIA

I don't know if this helps any, but here is the DEN, and the appartments Caps is talking about.  Seems like we have been here before, no pun intended.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/11johanspic.jpg)

Morning! They also own American Car Rental (Kali's)

(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/634/image378dz6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
 

BAIDJNATH-MISIER, Anjali     Rotterdam     4-11-1983     P-0039
BAIDJNATH-MISIER, Kawisch    Rotterdam    2-6-1990    P-0041
BAIDJNATH-MISIER, Kawita    Rotterdam    5-1-1985    P-0040
BAIDJNATH-MISIER, Presanderpersad    Nickerie (Suriname)    8-5-1958    P-0038


http://www.american-car-rental.com/american/home.do

Carpe...I can't copy...ECONOMY CAR RENTAL

Listed under that Van Gijn Car Rental....hmmm...Jossy called Lorenzo van Gijn...Juge in Curacao named van Gijn...LOL...Carpe    ::MonkeyCool::

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp


Can anyone copy please...TIA

A photo of the pond area taken around the beginning of February this year.  For comparison...I promise you this is the same area that is now drained.

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/pond4.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/dodie_photos/pond1.jpg)

WOW!!! Lala's I am impressed!!!

Hotshot...Thank you!!!

Morning Mum...and those photos are not photoshopped or anything like that. That is the Monserat pond in February of 2008. 

Here is a shot from back when Lorenzo was arrested and they were calling him Van Gijn in the Diario

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/VanGijn2-1.jpg)

Aruba Chamber of Commerce
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/vangijncarrental2.jpg)

you'll need to capture this stuff as it has some type of copy block built in.

Thanks Lala's   - February 2008

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/pond4.jpg)

May 2008

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/dam_national_1.jpg)

Thanks Rob...only Diario called him van Gijn from what I recall. I found it suspicious, to say the least, especially when I found the Judge with the same name in Curacao.

Lorenzo had a little talk with a Judge and walked...

I posted about it in Shango 1.

Maybe this judge is related as in cousin or uncle.  Didn't one of the arrest blurbs of that 4th suspect person say related to a high level judge and we could never figure it out?

The one I am thinking of is 'one is the son of a high level judiciary, the other the son of a lawyer' IIRC

That didn't make sense for the Kalpoes.

Thanks guys.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

I want to know EVERYTHING about that ECONOMY CAR RENTAL  company in Oranjestad. I have seen the white jeep all over the Aru-bay video near the rocks, and a parking lot near the Lighthouse.

That ECONOMY JEEP has always chafed my man nuggets, and I'd like to know more.

I made some more shots

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/POND48.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/POND50.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/pond52.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/pond55.jpg)

I agree,that is the MOST important outcome but still.....I'd like to see a few people from aruba hung by their fingernails.

Hey Bro, I bet you know their phone number  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received. 
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search. 
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.
- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.
- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.   

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

Not to mention that white vehicle that Deepak talks about in his PV.  That was considered a rental also, I think.  Aren't there markings on the tag to indicate rentals in Aruba?

(not to be confused with side scan sonar)

Thanks for that Kyle... I called it side scan yesterday or the day before.Thanks again for clarifying that.

And Good morning everyone.

Kyle, does that scanning tool feature any ability to find metal or magnetic strips?

TIA

The area that seems "chipped" appears as if it could only contain Natalee's flip flops, some money, driver's license, or maybe Joran's shoes.

The back of a driver's license contains a magnetic strip.

You are correct OE. The 40+ investigators were doing something else. Related to this area, but not at the pond itself. 

OE...Thanks If the 40-52 Dutch Investigaters is just coincidental, do you know who has been/is searching the pond?  ALE? Thanks in Advance!

Rob,
The scanning sonar has a rotating head which scans 360 degrees (hence the same).  It sends out very narrow high-frequency sound and listens for echos. It operates very similar to an untra-sound machine, only not that high of frequency.  Depending on the range, it can "find" objects about the size of a baseball.

ALE, but there may have been others included.  We were asked to attend.

so an item at least as large as a baseball could have been detected. Am I safe in that assumption?

Joran said in the Godfather Peter R DeVries taped confession that he stuffed his shoes in a drainage like "canal" or tube... is there a overflow drainage tube there Kyle?

Thanks OE...and thanks for the google earth info yesterday. Relieved to find my house this morning, as it wasn't there a few months back!

Klaas can you give me the coordinates for the foam with the teeth marks, duct tape and bottle of lysol? Those items were found together correct?

And panty boy found the panties somewhere near this new area correct? possibly a bit north? or north west?

tonight @ Pauw & Witteman: Peter R. de Vries.

http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php?id=376

this is the last P&W of the season.

blown to 200%

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/destinypondpicture2.jpg)

colors inverted

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/destinypondpicture2.jpg)

try it again

colors inverted

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/destinypondpicture3-1.jpg)

Rob - wasn't that near Baby Beach?  Hold on and I'll look in Important Case Documents.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/Evidencefoundincolony.jpg)

This had to have been drained almost immediately after the Feb 2008 photos.  The May 2008 photos show that vegetation (grass) has already grown where water used to be.  It also looks pretty dry.  This was not drained recently. imo.

Tire...good work Rob!

Lala's...Thank You for the Great Photos....looks like that little lake could hold something....

OE....Thank You again for all you do.....

Morning Primates ;-)

The sonar data is irrelevant once the pond has been drained and searched.  If something solid was larger than a baseball it likely would be detectable with sonar.
There was a drainage pipe there.  It was large enough to craw through.  It was long and by looking into it, there was no end in sight and very nasty.  Trust me.  This has all been thought of before.

I found it in screens shot... it was at Colony

Do we know who left the bucket there and why?  Or, has that already been discussed and I missed it?

I saw that "bone looking object" yesterday -- but it would not make sense that it would be sitting there in plain sight and left unattended. Must not be important -IMO

On second thought -- this IS Aruba -- maybe they did "miss" it!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I would say the bucket is irrelevant since it is still there...just as the tire is left in place.  Also, would it not be an indication that things get buried in that mud which would be a mushy muck-like substance when standing under water for a time? 

I'm not exactly sure how the pond ties into everything other than it being between the Sloot's house of horrors and the Racquet club.

I have never seen anything that ties this area into anything from any of the PVs. There are statements missing and there could be info contained with-in that indicates this area.

Has anyone seen anything official (and I know that's a misnomer) that suggests this is an area of interest? I mean anything that not from a person on drugs, a person trying to lead people astray or the likes?

I'm not saying that this is nothing, it must be something or there would be this effort (*I suppose*) I have just never seen anything that leads me to believe this was overlooked and is now (finally) being checked.

Natalee is somewhere and so are her items.

right  - ecology be damned.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Why not clean up the trash while you're there??? Naaaahhh, that's too easy. The next rain will make it appear like a "paradise".

The whole scene just looks odd.  Where are the footprints? 

Either it's just a process of eliminating all options or we need to rethink our theory as to what actually happened.  We know that pond area was scanned...we have proof of that.   Whether it fits into any plausible scenario is purely conjecture... unless... someone has more than everyone is aware of. 

Well, Glenda said there were dog prints there...that is a large area and who knows where she was standing at the time.  There is a more shallow area just before you reach the one in the photos...maybe that is where the footprints are.  Maybe Glenda was hallucinating again... :roll:

How about hans getting pissed when he learned this pond was scanned?  Is that 'official' enough???

So we have either the Sloot house as the crime scene or the Matty Apartments. The second scenario is the one Aruba wants to avoid the most in my opinion. They do not want Natalee abducted, drugged and gang-raped by the island hooligans. That is the tourism killer and a good reason why the case has not moved in any one direction and a good reason why there is so much obfuscation.

In the first scenario there is Joran and the Kalpoes involved in something bad happening and that's bad enough in my opinion and justifies a boycott due to the lack of will to prosecute.

In the second scenario there is a group of unknowns + Joran and the Kalpoes involved in something very very nefarious and way over the top. This scenario will bring on a boycott all by itself. There would be no need for us to ask our fellow American and the Good People of Holland to join our cause of Justice for Natalee. This type of crime does it all on it's own.

It took me forever to believe the Sloots house was it. Everything seems to point to Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes if you believe what you have read in the PVs... you could possibly add in Freddy and Koen in some capacity.

In the second scenario and using Matty's Apartments, you have some of the more dangerous elements that we have heard about and one incident dating to 1996 where the woman was drugged and raped and her husband was throw in the closet.

It is just too freaky that the "Lion's Den" is right there at the pond! I think we are going to find that the very earliest "rumors" we heard are going to be the most telling!!

How about hans getting pissed when he learned this pond was scanned?  Is that 'official' enough???
[/quote]

Where is this information coming from?   

Well it had to have been very dry or else we would see footprints near this area that appears to have been "sifted" through.  Like everyone else, I'm just curious about what (if anything) was removed from this area as well as when and how it would have been removed.  I do not see any footprints near the sifted area, nor any indication that any type of equipment was close by.  Nor do I see any footprints leading up to the area.  Makes me wonder that, if indeed someone was messing around in that spot, it was long after the water had dried up or was cyphoned out.

As you said, the second scenario would expose the monsters, and cause the most damage.  The cost of the cover up has been huge.  They knew this would be the case, and had to justify the cost.  It's more than one or two psychopaths.  As someone said, it would shock the world if we knew the truth. 

Kirmie....*ribbit*....

Where is this information coming from?   
[/quote]

I remember reading it here.

From all that I do know at this time...I do not recall that Mos was the least bit upset about it being scanned.  He may have been and I missed it.  Maybe that was some of the rumor from RU again...I can't remember.  Would Mos not be the one to give the O.K. to drain the pond?  Surely ALE would never make that decision on their own without approval.

I remember reading it here.
[/quote]


That was posted here right around the time we first heard about OE scanning the pond. May have come from an Aruban or Dutch poster.

Hi Hiker!

Good question about who owns that pond...the soccer field is very near there and access is from a road that runs beside the field...so maybe it's owned by their local park and rec organization.

Then there is that supermarket and Chinese restaurant that may own the land there also. 

I never sensed any objection from Mos or ALE. 

On another note...there were a lot of dog tracks around the pond.   

Thanks OE ;-)

Wreck, I tend to agree with you!

  I am on another computer.  It is so freaking slow, I am going to try to address more than one thing here, so listen up, if you kindly will.

The lake pics:  Where are shadows of the bucket?  What shadows that are there seemto be in a strange place, even if it were high noon.

The car rentals: There were some Jansens who owned car rentals out of the airport.

The coverup itself is evidence in and of itself.  That country is no bigger than the largest county in North Carolina.  Everyone knows everything about everyone, especially in these "clubs" and "social" gatherings.  They are all connected like a good bowel movement.
In fact they may be a bowel movement.  No one is that incompetent or stupid.  Average citizens would know more how to preserve a crime scene and not throw away evidence.  Those people are most guilty of a coverup.  It is intentional, conspiring, and involves way more than "loving" one another being the reason they are doing this.  They have no love, no feelings, except for self-preservation.

You are all right.  Every one of you.  Everyone has nailed something of importance and have publically exposed those rotten people for who they are.  As for Patrick, Mos and Peter DeVries, who knows?  One thing remains to really be questioned is why OUR country is not
informing, to some degree WHY they are either NOT doing something, or WHY an American citizen is not being given her rights HERE for an investigation into her demise and/or disappearance from that shiitehole place.  Who in the government is involved in this from the U.S.?  It is past time for some questions to be answere by our own government and why we are paying taxes for places like INTERPOL and government agencies such as the State Department to help insure Americans have some safety and warnings as to the dangers of visiting these countries. Who the heck do these people think they are fooling pretending "security" is at stake, when they could be pressuring that nasty bunch to give over and take care of this business?  The US is helping support those anti-American schools in those places, without much doubt.  We are paying those people to turn agains OUR own government and disrespect our citizens.  It should and will STOP before all this is said and done.  That beaytch dutch woman from the counsul who attended the Sloot Party?  She should be fired.  She should be recalled and her office abolished.  They are ALL a bunch of leeches who think they can FIDDLE while "Rome burns?"  It an't over 'til it's over.  Blue

Could it be the rim of the lid of the bucket? ...maybe dirt on the lid?

Not to argue -- you're on a roll!!!   ::MonkeyCool:: But, I don't quite folloow the "shadow" business. Those pics were taken and sent to Destiny by an ally -- they were not from ALE or anyone connected to the investigation.

Jackb
The only people that fail to see a cover up here are wearing blinders.  This is not rocket science...especially if any of the stuff we think is true turns out to be just that...true.

Great post, Blue. Right on target!

I have tried for ove a year to get someone to do something in the State Dept...i have called and called. just when I think Im getting somewhere, they change jobs...I was even promised by one guy who said he would change the way it reads on the warnings of going to that vile place, but then he changed jobs. When I mentioned that maybe the consul over there was crocked, I really got slammed...They never return phone calls...Its disgusting...

Vicki, I HATE the State Department. Someone - Anyone tell me what they actually do over there? It's an utter joke.

All I see them doing is taking my tax dollars and dolling them out to people who don't deserve them and are corrupt.

I hand delivered a letter in May of 07 and never even got a reply. They suck!

Someone is pulling strings here in this country.  There is little doubt, at this point or this would NEVER have gone as far as it has.  Why?  Was someone attending that Lion's meeting there from the US would be my question and WHO?  We may have underestimated the filty chord that binds all that together by not looking more in our own house, if they are not going to help, then they are on the side of the coverup.  When those departments get letters from the legislators and senators, they have to answer.  If a US citizen writes their senator or representative the letter is forwarded to the appropriate department and 8 or 9 copies are made and the letter is stamped and followed.  If an explaination is not given, jobs will be lost.  If your senator or legislator receives a request from you, to get answers, an answer will be given.  Writing and signing, if someone is in the business of doing this.  The appropriate agency WILL have to answer the letter and the Senator or legislator will write you and inform you of the progress of your letter and the date the agency received it.  The Senator will know the appropriate agencie(s) to send the request to, and it could be more than one.     Jackb

Natalee Holloway Update: Missing Shoe
I've been informed that at a press conference today investigators have asked anyone that may have information as regards a sneaker - K-SWISS (White and Blue) size 14 possibly seen or found near the Marriott or the Fisherman's Hut area to please contact the Police.
Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Va der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match. The last bit of information hasn't been independently confirmed.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_91.html

I bet you if we work really hard we can trace it back to:

1: Money Laundering

2. Drug Money

&

3. Weaponry


Just about all evil things in friggin' life can
be traced right back to those things.
(not necessarily in that order.  LOL)

I guess we just haven't honked up on the right horn yet!

The Kalpoes & Van der sloots are nothing. They are
animal droppings. They are yard waste.

Taking them down should be as
easy as taking out your garbage
to the curb for weekly pickup.

Keep squeezin' around for the right horn, folks!

These people are EXTREMELY "baseline." 

Their time is most likely very close!

Good afternoon all- Bleachedblack I used a ruler to the monitor. It seems like the diameter of the ground object is larger than the bucket. So why did anyone leave the bucket?
Rob- Is this on any pathway to Joran's house. He could have been going in either direction. From house to something or from a building to home and lost a shoe. Could this be the reason for cleaning the car? Mud after picking Joran up.

Kiwi wrote;


Kiwi I see what you mean it does look a bit larger. The only reason(s) I can guess that someone would leave that bucket (and I do have to agree with an earlier poster, the bucket itself is likely not significant), they either had to leave in a hurry and/or planned to return.

Aruban Tourism … Right From AHATA Rob Smith’s Mouth … “Helpfulness doesn’t mean that you must take up a submissive position
reality on May 16th, 2008 6:27 am
exactly, you stupid monkeys dont understand a thing.
no comprenden nada, porque son monkeys…
NH HAS BEEN SEEN IN VENEZUELA,
CHECK WITH CHAVEZ…..
__________
SM: Grow up and maybe one day you will have a brain. How typical, when one does’t like the truth the claims of you do not understand come out. I understand all to well.

I would dare say when it comes to Aruba … I might just know a bit. I have personally seen it change over the years and not for the better. Give me 1975 - 1980 Aruba … things would have been handled much differently then.

 ::MonkeyConfused::

FYI  - I don't think it's the same Reality you are thinking of  ::MonkeyWink::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzI5HIAFlFg&eurl

Warning: a few adult words make this video RATED R. That means you Nutless Rat!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

you the heck is doing this?  ::MonkeyHaHa:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

self edit fer typing tooooooooooooo fast... ::MonkeyWink::

Does anyone have the longitude and latitude of the pond.  Iknow they were posted, but I can't find them.  TIA

In February, 2008 ... Oceanexporation (Kyle) implied that that the  search of the Monserat Pond was conducted because the opportunity presented itself and ... this pond was the only one in the area that had not been searched.

The implication was that nothing significant was detected.

Janet

+++++++++++


Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #277 on: February 28, 2008, 07:46:09 PM »
 
The pond search was conducted to rule out a local pond that was one of the only ponds in the area not searched to date.  We were dockside (26-Feb) due to weather and couldn't do much so we did the pond sonar search.  It's good to have the technology on board to complete something like that quickly while we're local.
 
 
Magnolia
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #276 on: February 28, 2008, 07:44:15 PM »
 
Hey Ocean,
Did anything look promising?
 

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #280 on: February 28, 2008, 07:52:04 PM »
 
I don't think so from what I heard from the field... but I haven't looked at the data yet.  I'm getting caught up with the data collected while I've been off the boat.  I'll look at the scanning sonar data later this evening.
 

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #278 on: February 28, 2008, 07:47:16 PM »

Oceanexplorer - do you know if they are still searching that area today or did they finish up yesterday?
 

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #285 on: February 28, 2008, 08:01:26 PM »
 
Again, this was done to rule out the pond that wasn't previously searched while we were waiting on weather dockside with the Persistence.

Just throwing this out there.......remember when the government decided it was going to charge the taxi company's in aruba who wanted to remain at the airport there a fee? This they decided to do by auction (allegedly). Have to wonder how legit this was. This went into effect fall 2007.

+++++++++++++

We would be remiss if we did not inform you of all the changes that have taken place in the car rental industry and more particularly at the car rental offices at the Reina Beatrix Airport in Aruba.

The Aruba Government, which owns 100% of the Aruba airport, has imposed a closed bidding system by which to secure an office at the airport. There will no longer be 22 agencies to choose from; there will be 10. In addition, many limitations have been placed on which agencies are qualified to bid for these offices.

The ten agencies that have succeeded in winning the bids for the airport location, are facing two significant increases to operate their businesses from there. Firstly, the rent will be increased. Secondly, they will be required to pay percentage rent to the airport (Concession fee); this is a fee of 10% to 15% of their sales (rentals).
As you can see, these agencies will be paying dearly for the right to operate at the airport.

Our projection would be that the rental agencies at the airport will be forced to pass on their additional costs to you, the customer, as an airport concession fee (another name for more taxes). We would approximate at least a 12% increase in your rental fees. Although Optima Rent A Car is well qualified , we have chosen not to bid.

On the other hand, the agencies that have lost their offices, either because they lost the bid, chose not to accept, or were not permitted to bid in the first place, are being persecuted by the Airport Authority. In the last 6 months, we tried very hard to negotiate with the airport management to upgrade the car rental facilities at the airport in order to justify the extra fees. However to no avail. The car rental facilities are still as inefficient as they always were and the safety issues were never considered. This is one important reason we chose not to bid. But mainly we most certainly do not want to increase our rates by 12 or 15%, nor do we want to inconvenience any of our loyal customers.

Thanks for sharing the eye candy Rob.....

Des

12 degrees, 33 minutes, 54.5 seconds north,
70 degrees, 2 minutes, 3.9 seconds west.

Hi Janet,
Kyle told us today/yesterday that indeed the new search of the pond stemmed from a "witness" that came forward and directed them to the pond BEFORE THE Persistence left the island. The sonar search (not "side sonar") indeed prompted the draining of the pond. It was not done until now because of a lack of manpower due to the strike on the island.
Sometimes, I think our friends such as OE don't tell us all of what they know or their reasons for where they search. That's ok -- it is for the sake of the investigation.

What ever happened with the Arubay Video?

I think there was info there....are they located on file here in the cage?

TIA...Destiny

I speculate that Joran's got muddy ... maybe lost a shoe ... in the pond close to the Marriot Hotel while attempting to hide Natalee in the bushes prior to running across the street to Deepak's vehicle parked at the Raquet Ball club where a panicked discussion took place.

Janet

++++++++++++++


Aruba Cops Search Dutch Suspect's Home
Wednesday, June 15, 2005

A couple of Holloway's family members arrived on the scene Tuesday afternoon as police cordoned off several streets in front of the Marriott and investigators descended upon the swampy terrain next door.
Asked why police searched the area, Comemencia replied, "We got some information we needed to check." He would not say if authorities were acting on what John said. He also declined to comment on whether any of the three young men still in custody had changed their versions of what happened the night the teen disappeared.

There is a small pond, perhaps four to six feet deep, in the underbrush that was being searched.  A large fire truck pumper truck was parked on the road. Earlier, what appeared to be a generator was dropped off by a flatbed truck. Reporters said they saw the pond being slowly drained.

Thanks bb

Silence is where it is at.  I cannot comprehend why Kyle lied in February ... he just did not have to say anything.

Wreck ... do you know when the the strike start?

Janet

You do realize that the pond by the Marriott (the one they made a big deal about draining originally) is not the pond we are talking about now.

This angel like not other... would that be a BLUE angel?   jack BLUE

Ya know...I was thinking...maybe the 40+ team from Holland...maybe they were/are in Aruba to do forensic testing...maybe at some of the places...like the Matty Apartments...the Lion's Den....maybe.....one can always hope...

Ugghhh.....you mean there's another one.  One is enough!!

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -
« Reply #601 on: May 14, 2008, 07:05:52 PM »
 
The tiny pond is about 0.15-0.2 west of the intersection of Rt. 3 and Rt. 2.  It's on the north side of Rt. 3 next to the soccer field.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2830.msg381325#msg381325

Remember the can of shito.

Someone else look at this site and see if any of the long/lat markings give us a real name.

Forst link is the can of shito

Second link, generic site:

http://glosk.com/AA/Seroe_Canashito/-1891689/index_en.htm

http://glosk.com/AA/Rooi_Taki/-1891898/nearby_en.htm

1.  The pond by the Marriot was drained in the middle of June, 2005.
2.  The pond by the Racquet Ball Club was drained in at the end of July, 2005.

Janet

I really don't think Kyle "lied" to us. I would bet that Kyle did not know about the "witness" himself. Higher ups probably just told him them check the pond out. Even if he did know -- he doesn't "owe" us an explanation of what they do. Sometimes a little white lie is necessary to keep the public at bay. If Kyle had told US the reason -- he is also telling the PERPS the reason!

ribbit Miss Destiny

 ::MonkeyCool::

I knew the 24ora logo reminded me of something, wonder if Nike would notice too?   ::MonkeyCool::

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/24ORANIKE.jpg)

So 3 ponds were drained? I only remember the Racquet Ball Club pond being drained and thought it was sort of in between the club and the Marriott.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4099719971643396692

Hey (mudd 'ol )Swamp Thang!


I think Guido luvs you.

He wants to know for shore....
----------------

De tran is comin.  Slow, but comin'  The fat lady hasn't sung (sang?)
We gonna getcha(s)  Know it.  Live wid it.     Jb

Hi Blue!   Natalee...an Angel like no other...beware Aruba....

But Blue....you are a *Sweetie*.... ;-)...and an Angel too...

Thank You! (((((((((((((((2NJ))))))))))))))

Wreck ... I completely agree.  It info is going to compromise the investigation then ...  "I cannot comment" ... is where it is at.

I am leary of the current happenings and ... Kyle's upholding of the Aruban investigative team.  He has already been there; done that.

I do not doubt the sincerity of the crew of the Persistence.  However ... I cannot comprehend why any person who is striving for justice in the Natalee Holloway case believes that cooperation with the enemy he where it is at.  At Private Eye says ... "Rudy Croes is still at the helm."

Patrick van der Eem and Peter Devries have already made us aware the Hans Mos is working very hard to bring the case forward against "JORAN' ... not the the Kalpoes ... not Paulus ... not the pimps ... not those who participated or were aware of the coverup ... just "JORAN".

Janet

++++++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Oceanexploration
Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -  on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM      

The Coast Guard is not the same as the Aruba police dive division.  It seemed very odd to be told they don't have dive capabilities, especially after they told us it would take about 10-14 days to get a Dutch forensic team on site.  This was 12 and 13 days later.  Coincidence perhaps? 

Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare. We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

I am trying to quit flirting, my sweet Destiny, but you are making it soooo difficult.
Anyway.  Thanks.   Jackb ::cartwheel::

Wreck ... there was a pond right at the Marriot Hotel ... at the beach.  It was drained in the middle of June.  I think that this is the pond where Joran got muddy.  Please see my post above.

Janet

I suspect Kyle would love to be able to say "no comment" and all of us monkeys let it go at that, but you know we are like a dog picking at a bone for that last tidbit of meat...we won't let it go.  We are a diligent bunch for sure. Maybe he was trying to give us something without saying too much.

I believe you -- I just doubt personally Joran was ever even at the Marriott Beach that night -- let alone where he got "muddy."

Oceanesploration comments today regarding the pond.  I believe todays post.
I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received. 
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search. 
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.
- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.
- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     

Anybody know when the strick began?

Caps reported the activity at the pond on May 6, 2008 ... the search of the pond by the Persistence was February 28, 2008.

Thanks

Janet

Red wrote about it on the FP....looks like it was mid-March or earlier...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/03/21/flying-the-safe-friendly-skies-of-aruba-aruban-unions-no-longer-going-to-guarantee-the-minimum-staffing-like-police-air-traffic-control/

Holy crap.....don't even get me started on that one  ::MonkeyNoNo:: :roll:

Lala's Mom

I just used SM's wonderful search engine.  Believe me ... Kyle knows how to say "No comment" ...

Janet

++++++++++


Quote from: oceanexploration on February 29, 2008, 10:45:24 PM

I will not comment about the trap. 

Mos's press release is accurate and nearly verbatim of the FBI report. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357777#msg357777


Quote from: hotping on January 31, 2008, 10:51:59 PM

Hey OE...Is this what You were talking about when You said a few days ago that things should get interesting soon?.....


Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #717 1/31 -
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2008, 11:04:10 PM »  

We're not commenting at this time. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2560.msg335147#msg335147

We haven't forgotten about you or your cousin Gaydo..Arlene!  ::MonkeyNoNo::

Arlene Schipper Tundruk Consulting N.V.

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6281/schipperhj5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I can't ever get any results with SM search engine...did you get the magic decoder ring or what?   :roll:

2NJSons_Mom ... thank you.


PUBLIC SECTOR STRIKE IN ARUBA

In Aruba, PSI affliate SEPPA together with four other public sector unions, has been on strike since 11 March. They are pushing for the adjustment of salaries to the inflation rate.

The judge has called upon two commissions to solve the dispute, but neither of them has been successful. The judge did not contend the workers' right to strike, but he conditioned the strike on a minimum service level in the police, firefighting, prison and immigration departments.

The unions agreed with the directors of these departments that the strike would start again on Monday 7th April.  Magaly Brito, former Vice-President of PSI, and President of SEPPA, was at the forefront of the activity and demonstrated her trade union leadership.

The most recent action by the unions is the occupation of the Parliament of Aruba and they are determined to remain there until a solution is reached.

http://www.world-psi.org/Template.cfm?Section=Home&CONTENTID=20127&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm

O/T When someone gets a chance....
Michael Brian Benson BODY FOUND .... thank you in advance.

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::

Janet, I don't think Kyle lied, but is trying to play it close to the vest for God only knows what reason. I don't care about the politics either... In my opinion Bush and his State Dept have totally failed Natalee.

and that's the only reason I'm still here..

all that said - Kyle - you owe us an explanation

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/Privateeye-deminskirt3.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/OErespondstoPE5.jpg)

I really don't want to keep posting this stuff, but I will until I get an answer and I'm sure Kyle you have seen that I have posted this before. Ask Gabe Leo - I'll keep posting until I get an answer.

Thanks Kyle, because I'm sure I have now made my point and YOU will respond.

If you position your head on your left should just so and ... then scrunch up your face.  Works almost every time.

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

Janet

Which means she can be found.

http://www.wikimapia.org/1502012/

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=12.5652241&lon=-70.0342155&z=16&l=0&m=a&v=2

I'm just  wondering what you think Bush and the state department could have done in this situation.

Casa - I don't see Rob signed on right now but I hope he sees your question later and responds.

I think I need a chiropractor now.  ::MonkeyShocked::

April events for the IFA..Drinks,Happy Hours,Cocktails and Book club at the Van Der Sloots.

(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6429/bookclublm1.png) (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.ifaruba.com/newsletters/2008/newsletter_04_2008.pdf

Why hasn't Momma and Poppa Sloot fled that island like so many others?  Keeping an eye out for their property?  Or more like their pool area?

Peter R. de Vries on Pauw & Witteman last night:

he said the OM is still working on the case, continuing the investigation.
he said some of the cases he covered took many years until justice was done.
for example in "the puttener murder case" took 7 years until two  wrongfully sentenced men were set free.

Alexander Pechtold, leader of D66-party, former minister for Kingdom Affairs, was also there.
he said so many errors in the investigation were made from the start, he doubts these errors can ever be undone.

Thanks Caesu...Everyone knows those horrific blunders and mistakes were deliberate and it's never too late to question those that killed the Investigation on purpose. It's not too late to finally give Natalee a honest Investigation..The truth can be revealed,but if they never look into the obvious cover up and those that hid the truth this will never be solved. They can start with Pauls best friend Van Der Straten who led the Inevstigation and then Dennis Jacobs. We know what they did and  it was not by accident,what's scary is what more did they do that we dont know about that killed this case? If Dennis Jacobs was intimadating witnesses,changing witness testimony and lying through his teeth about evidence then what other evidence did he destroy? This guy handled all evidence and Van Der Straten lead the Inevestigation..It's no wonder why everything dissapeared and two innocent men were set up  :(

Exactomundo San....SHE WILL BE FOUND....

The Sloths will *never* leave that property.....*they* know why....so do others....

Do we have solid proof that Anita was even gone?
I know there are questions about her sons being with her....would *the powers that be* go so far as to fabricate Anita being off the island....

Yep :smt023

Seems as though I remember someone "privately" owining that land at the soccor field and not allowing a search.  Unless I am mistaken Luis Manseur did own this and sold off this land, but I am not sure if it was before or after NH, the sale, I mean.   jackb

I want Anita's azz on a silver platter....For Gods' sake....she is a *mother*....NOT!

She is a social climbing...money grubbing...sack-o-chit...she knows what happened...she is as much of a sociopath as her sweaty running hubby and *spawn*....how in the hell could such a souless bag of water...tell Beth...to her face...what *underwear* Natalee was wearing that night....BECASE SHE *SAW* THEM....that's how...she saw them....a 17 year old boy does not tell his mother the description of the underwear of a girl he was with...it does NOT make sense...nope...it does not...

Klaas, I'm not really expecting an answer.

Hey Casa...how is your Dear Daughter?

Hugs....Destiny

Like I have always said, no one has proven to me that Anita was not home the whole time.  She, in all liklihood was.  She probably did see the underwear and may have had a part in NH disappearance.  The first words the Vandersloots wanted everyone to KNOW was that Anita was out of town.  They breathe; they lie.  She may have caught Palus attempting to get with an unconscious NH and took it out on the girl.  We do not know, but I do know they have tried to keep her out of the limelight.  She should be a main suspect.  If it is found out, and it should not be too difficult, that the hag was not out of town, then she should be taken to GITMO along with those monster family members who had a part in this.  This has been covered up by the son for the mother's part.  Would a son really be that loyal to his father who all but spoon-fed him this lifestyle from the time he was old enough to know he could run over the weaker sex?  I doubt it.  The mother, the other and a whole lot more.   Jackb

,

How was it that this came out?  About the underwear.  ....This alsways bothered me, too....and it was in the beginning...can someoone refresh me ..who did she say it to.....when..in what context....??
Wasn't it a tv interview?

TIA

Blue....I agree with you 100%...I too, think that Anita was there...at home...I haven't seen any *solid* proof that she was not.

If Anita wanted to prove that she was out of town...she could have given her airline ticket to any news paper to publish....no...she carried on the lies...created lies....and started running the whole show...Renho was her accomplice...in crime...

han

Hey sweetie!  She is doing great!  Back to school this week and catching up. Thanks for asking.

I think that Anita is a typical Matriarch personality type...she runs the show...she will use everything she can muster to keep her *image*...she is *evil* IMOO....very much so....she tried the underwear crap to try and make Beth think less of Natalee...Anita is used to abusing people that don't go her way....what she said to Beth...was Abuse...Anita is used to people she deals with...like the School Urine went to...and she taught at...to fall in line...to *her* wishes...she didn't count on Beth showing up at her home...looking for Natalee...

I think that Anita was instrumental in the head master at Urine's school saying the things he said....the whole BS story of when Urine arrived...what he did....Anita's' doing...

A woman with that type of personality...with her control issues...they keep *dirt* on others....to use to get their way....I know!

Yippie!

Glad to hear this Casa ;-)

Hi Casa. Still rolling around on that ball I see.

I agree.  Anita thought she was controlling the conversation while all along Beth let her talk and talk and she said too much that moron.  Beth absorbed everything.

Like a healthy, happy kitten should!  : )

Hope all the monkeys are feeling just as fine and frisky. ::cartwheel::

Hi FOM  ::MonkeyDance:: ::cartwheel::

These cartwheels have me dizzy.  Have a good night everyone.

 hi San  it's nice to be back in da zoo!

Do you know how the info about Natalees underwear came about San?
It has been nagging me for awhile.

TY

First a Book club at the Van Der Sloot house and now Anita hosts Moments Of Silence. Is Anita in the running for the next woman of the year award in Aruba? ::MonkeyNoNo::

(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2092/bookclub1bp0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Sadly, *******, I think alot of the people on the Island like to pretend it never happened.

Some still like to say "Natalee must have run off...." if you ask what they think happened.
Crazy but true.

Ignorance is bliss, right?
No wonder anita looks so happy.

The only reason Anita looks happy is...she feels that she is in control....BTW, it is sad what you said...I spoke to someone on Aruba a couple of weeks ago...I asked them what they thought happened....their answer...*somedays I think Joran did it, somedays not*...very sad indeed...

Night San...sweet dreams...

.......Which is why they need to be boycotted. They STILL don't get it.

With Paul working with the Govt and being partners in a law firm it looks like life is just grand for the Van Der Sloots. Job security,blood money and few worries about anyone in the family ever being prosecuted for what they did to Natalee or her Family. They even seem to enjoy flaunting that there is nothing we can do about it and they are all prospering.

 no they don't.
and never will.
nite monkeys

(http://marazulgallery.com/images/stories/newsletter/invitation1.jpg)
http://marazulgallery.com/

is this some cruel reference to 'the right to remain silent' and 'a moment of silence in remembrance'?

Would love to see the "thought print" people analyze her work!  ::MonkeyDance::

...and they have "Dirty Hand" on the promo!

(http://marazulgallery.com/images/stories/newsletter/invitation1.jpg)

oh cripes....look at that picture! don't get me going...you know how I get. But look at that picture.....dark blue with algae green background......dark hand, a hand of color.....with an eye. Does this eye witness?  Oh nevermind....good night.

Somewhat off topic, but in view of this last search for which we know very little...

I would like to know who was found in the fish cage a few months ago and what the the clothing fragments were. We know DNA tests were taken and the photos show a blue fabric. If the remains had nothing to do with NH, then why hasn't anyone come forward to tell us who was dead in that cage.

I also would like to know if and why 40+ Dutch experts were recently brought to Aruba to work on the NH case, or if this is disinformation.

Hi *******:

It is hard to think of the words 'Moments of Silence' in the same sentence with Anita Van der Sloot.  She must have been in a coma for that time.  I think the woman talks in her sleep.  :silent:

She talks a lot, but she never says anything.   

Maybe you can help me, Wreck, I keep going back over this and can't see where Kyle lied.  What am I missing?

The quotes above are taken out of order and are confusing.  I am just not seeing where there is lying.

              :smt102 :smt100

Should be a mag strip on the back of a hotel key card as well.

Bless her heart!  I had my tonsils out when I was in third grade, lucky me!  One of my neighbor's girls had to have hers out recently.  Wasn't pretty.  Some things are better done when when you're little and won't remember.  Glad your daughte is on the mend!

I can't help you -- I don't think he "lied" either. All he told us was that the pond had not been searched before. It had been not. That is why I was asking Tamiko's if she was confusing the ponds.

Hi Casa,

In my opinion the State Dept DID fail Natalee, Dave and Beth. I'm a Conservative and I don't saying that this Republican Admin has failed Natalee but it's the truth.

We all know Beth met with Condi and at the close of the meeting Condi said 'I want the FBI back on this." I'm sure that must have made Beth feel good, like something was going to happen... or maybe deep down she knew that the FBI was powerless.

HISTORY

FBI "invited" to participate in searches and interrogations. This turned into the FBI "dis-invited" and could only observe the interrogations.

Dompig calls FBI on Barbados and requests their help and a specialized dog. The FBI told Dompig they would not be returning to Aruba unless Dompig revealed how he came upon the information and Dompig refused. The FBI did not return to Aruba. More games by the ALE.

The FBI told Beth that the likelihood that Natalee was still alive was very small, then it was all retracted and the FBI didn't say anything. They could have told what they knew and help force this case to a conclusion.

I could come up with some more examples, but it's early...LOL

For the most part the FBI has always been a domestic law enforcement agency. That did change after 9/11 and they do a good bit of international work now. It's mostly geared toward terrorism. The CIA and other agencies handle the international end of law enforcement.

There have been cases, such as the latest person going over the railing of the cruise ship, where the FBI is deeply involved. Their expertise is requested and they often come to the right conclusion quickly. They can only investigate in an international setting where requested. And they are requested quite often. Which makes the Aruban version of Helter Skelter all that more appalling. Why would the Arubans want the FBI involved when the ALE is involved in a cover-up? This is probably one area that could land the ALE in some very hot water - requesting the FBI's involvement and then lying to them. I have a feeling that the ALE doesn't want to open that can of worms. In the grand scheme of things, the ALE realizes that they are very small potatoes and the FBI is God-like when it comes to law enforcement.

I think just about everyone here has written a letter or two to the State Dept and very very few have even received a response. That's ok, as long as they get the letters and read them. That's what is important anyway. It would be nice to get an acknowledgment letter saying that they did read the letters and they are taking the appropriate actions.

In my opinion, Condi used symbolism over substance. She knew that the ALE and Aruban Authorities were jerking the FBI around and there would be very little they could do unless the Aruban Government truly wanted their involvement. The FBI has better things to do than hang out on Aruba and rack up huge bills for an unintended vacation. Maybe she said that to appease Beth, the grieving mother. But what did that statement really accomplish?

As Kermit has said, the FBI knows... so what good does stating that Condi wants the FBI back on this really do?

If the FBI knows, and I think they probably do, what's stopping Art Wood's extradition?

This is an international case and we need to remember that. There is only so much we can demand as citizens. It's up to the people we elect to make that difference. We can not demand that Joran be extradited (well, we can, but it won't matter) it's up to those in the Justice Dept, along with the State Dept to decide if a crime was committed against an American Citizen and if her rights were violated. I think most here will agree that a crime was committed and Natalee's rights were indeed violated. Funny how these pseudo Europeans are always squawking about human rights when the poster case is right under their noses and they do nothing. That's not going to be good for them when the next case involves one of them. Human rights are universal and God given. No one can take them away . . only God Himself. And most importantly they are not given by the Aruban Government although they probable think they bestow those rights on everyone walking in their corner of the sun.

Justice needs to be meted out in this case one way or the other. The ALE and Aruban Prosecutor's office either lacks the will or skills to get this case concluded. That's a problem in my opinion and that opens the door for ole Uncle Sam to step in. And I mean really step in and end this thing once and for all. This can't go on forever and if it did, that would be an example of how corrupt the whole cabal in the US and Aruba really is.

Three years is too long for a case like this where the suspects have been identified in the first 22 hours. It's not like we are still trying to find out who committed this crime and the actor is unknown.

If those that covered up the crime are arrested and those that committed the crime are not that would be a travesty in my opinion. But someone is going to have to answer for what happened to Natalee. If that has to be Oduber during the next election and his political enemies go after him after his defeat, so be it. What comes around goes around. That's the law these Arubans live by.

O/T Yapp's daughter delivered this morning..update in prayer thread.

this junk in the lower left corner looks like Van Der Straaten's "work"... and the girl in the lower right corner has a blouse made from the "art" in the upper right corner.

These Sloots are just above it all .... aren't they special? NOT!!!

I wonder when she will be opening a gallery featuring the works of Joran and John Wayne Gacy? That should be any day now.

She could have a serial killer of the month art gallery...

next month will feature the 'works' of Ted Bundy.

THANK YOU SPOCK!!!

you're totally right. Someone appears to have been found and there is no news on this. I'm perplexed also. Doesn't this missing person matter to anyone? What about that person's family?

If there was DNA, there must have been a person. What is being done to ID this person?

Kyle indicated that the cage was there most likely a year but not more than ten. That means that the person's family is probably still alive.

is this person an American or Dutch or Aruban? Colombian? Venezuelan? who was that person?

good point Peaches.

That "art" looks like Walt Disney throwing up.

I certainly felt sick when I saw it.  True artistic expression comes from deep within your being. You paint with your soul and hers is in deep conflict there.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #750 5/2 - « Reply #951 on: May 08, 2008, 05:44:27 PM »   
 
Quote from: klaasend on May 08, 2008, 05:21:11 PM
Quote from: SS on May 08, 2008, 04:11:33 PM
I wasn't finished with my post above when it just posted itself.

     I will not be part of a group attack on CAPS.  I don't do nasty.  If someone can show me evidence of intentional misinformation or misrepresentation by CAPS, then I will certainly change my tune.  I will not jump all over him or anyone else though, because some people are annoyed or frustrated with him.  He has been open and forthright.  Before he even started blogging with us, he contacted Beth, Dave, TES, and the FBI to share his information with them.  He knew that TES had scanned the pond at Manserat long before we did.  He has made personal contact with Klaas and another poster.  He has email communication with Dave.  This just doesn't sound like a troll to me.  Is he perfect?  Nope, but neither am I.  I will not prematurely judge him or anyone else.


Quote from: klaasend on May 08, 2008, 05:21:11 PM
Just woke up from a much needed nap.

CAPS is one of the GOOD GUYS.  I have been emailing with him and have known who he is since before he started posting in the forum. 

Klaas ... I respectfully disagree and ... I know I am not alone.

Janet

++++++++++


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.1500
Quote from: MumInOhio on May 08, 2008, 07:55:52 AM
Vms…I have suspected from very early on from Cap’s posts who Caps really is. I did not come to this conclusion from any mailing list from ‘our friend in Aruba’. Posts over the last 24 hours have confirmed my suspicions. Not everyone is whom they appear to be…I need to walk away!
I have enjoyed your posts vms, as well as many others in this thread. Thank you for all the hard work you have done in search of the truth and justice for Natalee.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08
« Reply #214 on: May 16, 2008, 04:53:00 PM »
Silence is where it is at.  I cannot comprehend why Kyle lied in February ... he just did not have to say anything.

Wreck ... do you know when the the strike start?

Janet.



Mokeys,
I haven’t posted for a while because, quite honestly, I am very disturbed by things that I have experienced in the forum, lately.  During the past six months, we have been extremely fortunate to have two people voluntarily work with us to provide inside information about important events on Aruba.  We would not have had access to any of this information without the help of posters like CAPS and OE.  Much of the information that has been imparted has been extremely sensitive and could possibly have dangerous repercussions for both of them.  I do believe that CAPS and OE are trying to share as much information as they possibly can.  I feel that it is absolutely wrong to attack their characters and make accusations about them because they haven’t responded in exactly the way that some feel that they should.  I am extremely appreciative of everything that CAPS and OE have done to help us.  I also understand that there may be reasons why information can’t always be shared with us, and it’s arrogant to think otherwise.  I would like to suggest that we not bully or attack those who have come forward to help us. This is very wrong and I don’t believe that this is the purpose of the SM forum.  If someone here at SM has information about a poster that is important for everyone to know, then this information needs to be shared with everyone.  Private email discussions that eventually lead to amorphous open forum attacks are wrong.  Put up the secret defamatory information or keep your thoughts to yourselves.  If I were CAPS or OE, I wouldn’t even continue to offer information to SM after reading what has been posted. Calling someone a liar is a serious character assault, especially when that person has tried to be a friend and supporter. We are appealing to Arubans to help us, but is this how we will treat those who come forward?

BB I had the same thoughts

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::...Rockin' Robbie...

I am in total agreement. Thank you for stating that.
 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038 :smt038

[/quote]
Mokeys,
I haven’t posted for a while because, quite honestly, I am very disturbed by things that I have experienced in the forum, lately.  During the past six months, we have been extremely fortunate to have two people voluntarily work with us to provide inside information about important events on Aruba.  We would not have had access to any of this information without the help of posters like CAPS and OE.  Much of the information that has been imparted has been extremely sensitive and could possibly have dangerous repercussions for both of them.  I do believe that CAPS and OE are trying to share as much information as they possibly can.  I feel that it is absolutely wrong to attack their characters and make accusations about them because they haven’t responded in exactly the way that some feel that they should.  I am extremely appreciative of everything that CAPS and OE have done to help us.  I also understand that there may be reasons why information can’t always be shared with us, and it’s arrogant to think otherwise.  I would like to suggest that we not bully or attack those who have come forward to help us. This is very wrong and I don’t believe that this is the purpose of the SM forum.  If someone here at SM has information about a poster that is important for everyone to know, then this information needs to be shared with everyone.  Private email discussions that eventually lead to amorphous open forum attacks are wrong.  Put up the secret defamatory information or keep your thoughts to yourselves.  If I were CAPS or OE, I wouldn’t even continue to offer information to SM after reading what has been posted. Calling someone a liar is a serious character assault, especially when that person has tried to be a friend and supporter. We are appealing to Arubans to help us, but is this how we will treat those who come forward?

[/quote]

THANK YOU

AZSunny...Thank You for a *very well written post* regarding OE and CAPS!!!

You are welcome, but SS wrote it, I just agreed!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

The post was made by SS ....... AZsunny copied it and agreed with SS.

need...more...coffee...

I think Caps and OE are both good and honorable people. I don't know what this info is about Caps and don't really care. I think he is trying to help and that's what matters to me.

I think everyone here cares and some show their caring ways differently. There is not one way to express that you care about Natalee. I doubt we would all be here still, after almost three years, if we didn't care.

I understand that OE can not share all of his info. And I also understand from his posts that he does not know all of the info ... he has made that clear.

It probably won't stop most of us from asking question though. We all want answers and asking questions is the best way to get those answers.

So, sorry if I offended Kyle with my persistence.

each and everyday, I hope that today is the day that this million piece puzzle all comes together and we all scream EUREKA!!!

FOM ... IIRC Greta did say that she could have "crawled under the table" regarding Anita's words which decribed graphic sexual activity between Natalee and Joran.  I cannot recall Greta stating anything about "underwear".  I could be wrong.

However ... in LOVING NATALEE ... Beth reveal that in the Anita/Paulus encounter ... it was her that refers to the "underwear" issue as it pertains to Joran's declarations ... not Anita.

Janet

+++++++++

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 148/149

Anita tells us all about Joran and what a good boy he is.  How smart he is.  I let her go on and on, as this gives me time to listen, look, assess.  And as she continues, she begins to share with us what a difficult time they have had with him recently.  How he exibits oppositional defiance and is disrespectful to his mother.  How they are beginning to lose control of him as he sneaks out at night and comes and goes as he pleases.  After about thirty minutes she concludes by tell us Joran is seeing a psychologist for his definant behavior.

Now it's my turn.  I have no intention of matching her good-boy remarks with good-girl comments.  And cut to the chase.  Graphically repeating the very words said by their son a couple of weeks ago in his statements made on June 9, 10 and 13.  The vile account that was read to me in the attorney general's office.  The sexually explicit words used by Joran to describe what he did to Natalee.  Calmer than I have ever been in my whole life and without blinking, I tell them which fingers he said he used.  Where he said he put them.  How their son described my daughter's pubic area, her underwear.  How Joran said she was falling asleep and waking up, falling asleep and waking up.  I tell them of his conflicting stories of what happened, the different places he said it happened.  Little bead of sweat form across Paulus' brow and forehead.

SS, I totally agree with your post.  Thank you.

I cannot see why questions cannot be put forth without the
accusations, name calling, and insults to posters who are
trying to help.

Not one person is obliged to give this forum any information.

From Van Susteren/Holloway interview (Oct. 4, 2007) On the Record:

 
Greta: How about Anita, the mother of Joran, that day, what did you think of her?

Beth: She doesn't have any idea.

Greta: You know, from my perspective she wept, she sat and wept the whole time, and Paulus perspired profusely, and that stood out, and you were just quietly listening to Anita and you were sort of stoic, and said yes, and sort of consoled her, and I need information about my daughter you didn't break stride.

Beth: Well, I certainly was not going to match her good boy remarks with my good girl remarks. I thought... let her vent let, her have the floor as long as she needed to, she talked for 20 or 30 minutes... no point for me trying to as I said match her remarks with good girl remarks with her good boy remarks about Joran.

Greta: And there is one point she was quite graphic about what her son, and his relationship with your daughter and frankly I wanted to crawl under the table  it got so graphic as she discussed sexual acts and I was sitting there almost like a voyeur and that didn't... and I sort of sneaked a look at you and you didn't break stride.

Beth: Parents... parents will do anything and I think parents were so desperate for a resolution were... desperate for someone just to come forward with the truth. And would have and will still do anything.

Greta: Not to push your buttons but when she was talking about the sex stuff ...and I would have.. that didn't, like I would, I felt so uncomfortable ... you didn't feel uncomfortable?

Beth: No. I just wanted to get to the bottom ...
 

SS…Here is a few things of the top of my head that have been left hanging in the Shango thread. These all came from Cap’s posts and I bet there are at least 50 other things posted and many never mentioned again.

Park Apartments
Fred Arambatzis Martina
No Karen Martina
REGDAN ENOZ
Cabez - Jacobs
Kalpoes don’t live at 91B Hooiberg
Deutekom was driving a car that night
Ben Vocking
Julia was there when something happened Natalee
Freddy Zedan Arambatzis doesn’t exist
Nadira doesn’t exist
Steve Croes doesn’t exist


As one who has spent countless hours trying to answer Cap’s questions since December, it would be nice if he would at least answer some of the questions about his own posts!

I will repeat what I have posted before…Most of my questions to Caps have been regarding his posts. Since when is it not OK to question a poster’s post or point out errors in a post?  Some of Caps information then is posted by other posters as gospel. I am sorry, just because Caps says it is so doesn’t make it so with me. Show me the proof!

As for private email…I have seen this posted in the Shango thread…SS check your mail ...  ::MonkeyWink::

I've been guilty of posting in the forum...for someone to check their email...what I am doing then, is asking a *mod* to read something before I post it....that came from a third party regarding info I'm seeking...asking a mod if I should post it or not...has it already been posted...or should I make slight changes, as taking out the senders name and email info before posting it.

I do this as a protection to the person who sent me the info...*not a cagemate* ever...

Destiny

Mum,

Your questions about specific information that CAPS has shared are certainly legitimate.  Many of us share some of your same questions and confusion.  This does not justify, however, personal attacks on a poster who is trying to be helpful to us.  I don't know why some of the questions have not been answered and perhaps, some of his information has been incorrect.  Much of his valuable information has been completely correct, though, and I do believe that he is trying to help us.  If you have reasons to believe that he is not honest in his attempts to help us, then you need to share that information and not stand in the background with it.  Questioning the information that a poster provides is certainly acceptable.  Attacking another poster who is trying to be helpful is not OK.  This is SM, it is not RU.  I don't have any email.

ooopsie...meant to say...I've never posted to the forum private emails from fellow primates...most are completely off-topic...and Klaas would only end up having to move them to the Lounge...LOL!

Destiny, I would do exactly the same thing you did.  If I had important information I would ask for advice also.

I am not sure about most of Caps' info... some of it goes right past me and I am just left scratching my head. I try to figure it out, but am left wondering sometimes. That doesn't mean that it's not true, just that I don't understand it.

I can tell you that recently I found out something that Caps did get absolutely correct. It's really not all that important what it is... cause it really doesn't affect the info we have all gathered and I'm not sure it has anything to do with the case (but maybe it does)... but he did solve a minor area for me at least.

He could have told me I was correct and just left it at that, but did find the info on his own and it was right. I got an email recently from someone and that person told me the truth - Caps had already figured it out. No one else would have ever found this I believe.

Sooo Kudos to Caps on that one.

I am not a politically correct person.  I want the truth.

SS ... if you cite CAPS in response to my request as to your source pertaining to a submission to Patrick's blog and ... then you can only produce back up that has already been proven to be incorrect ... I feel that I am allowed to question you and ... be provided with an explanation.

If ... two weeks later ... you are still upholding CAPS as the source of that submission ... I do not understand why you should get a free pass.

If Kyle states one specific reason for the search of the pond in February when no explanation was necessary and ... then states an entire different reason in May ... then I have every right to challenge Kyle and ... be provided with an explanation.

Janet

Questioning his information...Yes
Calling him a liar...NO

 ::MonkeyCool::

Janet, I still don't get what you are upset about Kyle and the pond search. All he said is that the pond hadn't been searched before. It wasn't -- where is the lie? He NEGLECTED to tell us that a witness directed them to the pond -- that is not a lie -- just an omission he didn't feel we needed to know.

FOM ... IIRC Greta did say that she could have "crawled under the table" regarding Anita's words which decribed graphic sexual activity between Natalee and Joran.  I cannot recall Greta stating anything about "underwear".  I could be wrong.

However ... in LOVING NATALEE ... Beth reveal that in the Anita/Paulus encounter ... it was her that refers to the "underwear" issue as it pertains to Joran's declarations ... not Anita.

Janet



----


Maybe Greta, is just a big SOOPA-FREAK, like that.
The kind you don't take home to MUDDA?

 -Rick James


j/k

Pita

THANK YOU!  THANK YOU!

I have been search for that transcript forever.

Do you happen to have the link?

Again ... THANK YOU!

Janet

Now, everyone understands why I don't ask any more questions in the Shango thread.  Everything is misinterpreted as an attack on the individual poster.  I don't think that is the case.  It seems perfectly acceptable to ask questions of those that disagree with us, but not when we see something that we know is not true and simply point that out.  Everyone observes things differently...I have had my share of hair pulling in the Shango thread as well as over here. 

We are all here for one reason...to find Natalee and bring her home. I think we get frustrated and start to pick at each other the way siblings do from time to time. I don't react well to not having my questions answered because I love those clean lines that BB says in her sig line always blur with time.  I would like to see all the info everyone has to be laid out on the table and the chaff separated from the wheat..but that won't happen.  I do think there are things known at this time that are being held close to the vest in many ways.  I am hoping the things in the works now will prove to be the answers.

As I told Caps one time...I have major trust issues with Aruba and it's people.  That is my problem and that is why I am skeptical of anyone that claims one thing and never follows up...having said that...I have done that myself because I may have said too much at the time. It's that element of pinning down the truth that gets us all so upset since truth is hard to come by in this case. I don't know who to trust and therefore the questions come.  Maybe that is my way of determining if I can believe what I am hearing...I don't know. Imagine the family's frustration.  Yes, there are still good people in Aruba, but they are few and far between IMO.  Proof is Anita and her art exhibits...the family that has ruined so many lives is allowed to continue to flourish and thrive in spite of everything with no accountably whatsoever. 

Just because someone says it's so...does not make it so unless you can back it up with proof.  Just like Rob has questions...so do I.  I really don't think anyone has intended to appear to question anyone's integrity that comes here, but you have to admit there have been many, many posters that have ultimately turned out to be part of the problem.  I think a little more patience would be in order at this time. Time will tell who is who and who can be trusted and who can not.  Until then, we have to trust that God is in control and knows what he's doing. 

My rant and my opinion...so flame away if so desired. 

Janet,

I think the difference with your approach is the demand for information, rather than a request for information.  No one owes you or any of us the information. We are just fortunate that they chose to provide what they do, when they can, and then it is up to us to accept or not accept the information.  The demand to 'prove it' isn't going to get any of us any where. 

The witness did not direct them to that pond...it was a tip that lead them there. The witness is not the person that lead them to that pond...trust me on this one.

I think posters like Caps and OE come off as being "difficult" because they do not "spit it out." Well, I assume they are being "cryptic" for a reason. They can put us on the right path -- but can't come right out and say it because they have to protect their own sources and not hinder those that are investigating.

Okay, wrong word  -- I should have said "tipster" instead of "witness" -- my point is the same.

OOPS!  So sorry...don't slap my paws...please...my response should have been this...


Agreed...sorry there is my stickler for detail trait coming to the surface again.

I knew what you meant, Wreck.  ::MonkeyCool::

Just wanted to thank Tamikosmom and Pita for posting the graphic info regarding Natalees assault, and how it was relayed to Beth, and responded to by Anita....so, anita never said she saw Natalees underwear...she is repeating what her son stated previously.  correct?  well someone will correct me if I am wrong, i am sure!
Thanks all 

AZ ... I am sorry but ... I do demand the truth.  I HATE to be lied to.  However ... "Liar" is not a word in my vocabulary.

In regards to the pond search ... when there is one "specific" explanation from Kyle in February when no explanation is necessary and ... an entire different explanation in May ... the implication is that one explanation is not the truth.  In other words ... a lie.
 
I firmly believe that silence or "no comment" is where it is at if the truth cannot be revealed at a certain moment in time.

In my research ... I put a lot a weight in Kyle's words which he posts and responds.  There are enough inconsistencies/lies to contend with that came from the "other" side.

Janet

Thank you.  I agree with you.  Time will tell if we are being mislead.  In the meantime, we have some posters who appear to be trying to help us.  Abusing them will only make us look like complete jerks and it will ultimately drive those away who we need the most.  We all have our own interpretations, questions, and our own opinions of fact v. misinformation.  Attacking our helpful informants is not the answer.

I'm dumbfounded. I guess we all better get out our Bibles and swear an oath before every post.

"No comment"

You are welcome FOM.

I am so thankful that this topic was brought up.  The transcript provided by Pita was a Godsend and ... so crucial in one aspect of something I am working on.

Your are correct ... the transcript as well LOVE NATALEE does not imply that Anita mentioned "underwear".

Janet

Wreck,  I almost posted the same thing!!   ::MonkeyDance::

Janet, I'm sorry I don't.   :cry:   I found it in my notes, but didn't have a link.

And remember:   Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted ...Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

oops..thanks carpe

: )

at this late date...it's hard for me to believe that any action will be taken without a tipster. It's up to those that know more than us to determine if the search is warranted.

The pond was searched - therefore the tipster was judged credible. jmo.

From your finger tips to my ex's ears..lol
forgiveness is a blessing

Back in February, OE might not have been told that the pond was being scanned as the result of information from a tipster.  He was probably sharing information based on what he had been told at the time.  Information from a tipster or witness was no doubt very sensitive information.  We might also remember that OE said the he wasn't told the details of retriving the cage contents which occured while he was on land.  If I recall, he described watching the Dutch/Aruban ship from the beach area.

I'm glad that a tipster came forward and that someone has decided to help. That's what we all want. If the pond turns up nothing - it's just another area cleared. The Persistence didn't go to Aruba based on a whim and a wish.... they had info where to search. Whether that turns out to be correct remains to be seen.

Same thing with the pond.

Someone of Aruba has info about Natalee - who's to say that this tipster isn't the one?

the stuff you all have "in your notes"  :)  is amazing!

You and I read the following posts of Kyle very differently.  IMO Kyle left no doubt as to the reason the pond was being search:

1.  The Persistence happened to be "dockside".
2.  The pond was the local pond that had not been ruled out.

Janet

+++++++

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #277 on: February 28, 2008, 07:46:09 PM »
 
The pond search was conducted to rule out a local pond that was one of the only ponds in the area not searched to date.  We were dockside (26-Feb) due to weather and couldn't do much so we did the pond sonar search.  It's good to have the technology on board to complete something like that quickly while we're local.
 

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #285 on: February 28, 2008, 08:01:26 PM »
 
Again, this was done to rule out the pond that wasn't previously searched while we were waiting on weather dockside with the Persistence.

Pita ... thank you again.

Janet

Exactly!  What Ocean knew in February was different to what he
knew in May......doesn't make either statement a lie.

Carpe has the new P&W (DeVries) video posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS3Q5ZGoRjs

anyone know who this is?

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p149/Morgan2112_2006/whoisthiskid2.jpg)

Nadira???  Freddy??? Ben Voking??? Daury???   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Ditto!! What does it even matter WHY they decided to search the pond and who KNEW the reason at the time?????????

AliB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5RAr8nUbu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O19hf98yqo

I just pray that something important was found in that area of the pond that looks like it was scraped - even if it was just a size 14 sneaker.  I agree with Rob about this case being in need of a tipster or statement from a witness.  This entire investigation was so badly damaged from the very beginning.  There are people on One Crappy Island who know exactly what happened that night - either first-hand or vicariously..  At this point, someone will have to come forward with a tip or one of the perps will need to be forced to sing like a canary.  It is more important than ever for us to keep Natalee's plight alive and hopefully, through our sources and research, we can help by putting pressure on the guilty perps.  As Beth so eloquently put it...make their lives a living hell.. until someone comes forward with the answers.

O/T - well, sort of.

There are basically two types of people in the world - the kind who look at the big picture and the kind who look at the details.

We have that situation where I work. Some people say, "It doesn't matter if I made sure all the documentation was perfect, cause I got the child's health care taken care of." Then, there are other people who say, "It won't do any good to get something done if it isn't documented correctly so we can make sure everything has been taken care of."

Both are right, and you need both kinds of people to get the job done. Our job here will be much more successful if we work together.  ::MonkeyWink::

Smoochies.